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View Full Version : Apparently L4D is not Halo...


Wolvie
12-08-2008, 10:59 AM
Over at Destructoid (http://www.destructoid.com/hey-dickheads-left-4-dead-is-not-halo-113840.phtml) they have a humorous article up about how the "redneck" Halo playing side of Xbox live has discovered Left 4 Dead, and are now systematically ruining the experience with the same frat boy nonsense that ruined Halo 3 for me.

The whole thing is a rant, but apparently things have gotten so bad in versus play, that this particular person sounds like they almost want to ditch XBL.

At any rate, is it really that bad in versus mode? I've played nothing but co-op, as I tend to stay away from versus modes these days because of crap like he talks about.

Ink Asylum
12-08-2008, 11:02 AM
At the risk of sounding snarky, this is why Left 4 Dead should only be played on PC. For the sake of those who play on LIVE for whatever reason, hopefully the game will survive Halo Horde rampaging through until the next shiny new game is dangled in front of them.

shunoshi
12-08-2008, 11:03 AM
To put it simply, it is probably "that bad".

This is why we win EVERY versus mode game we play in the public rooms. Us Coggers work well together. Team work is everything in versus mode. If you aren't communicating and working as a cohesive unit, you get torn apart. It doesn't matter how good you are as an individual player.

Ancalagon
12-08-2008, 11:05 AM
This is something I have noticed with all games on Xbox Live. While I am not denying that PC gaming has its fair share of griefers and disrupters, there is something about console gaming that seems to draw them out in droves, like a pipe bomb does to a mass of infected

Does he have a point? Is XBL really that bad?

Psykoboy2
12-08-2008, 11:07 AM
At the risk of sounding snarky, this is why Left 4 Dead should only be played on PC. For the sake of those who play on LIVE for whatever reason, hopefully the game will survive Halo Horde rampaging through until the next shiny new game is dangled in front of them.

At the risk of making sense, this is why ALL online games should be played with people you know. Especially on XBL.

digitalErich
12-08-2008, 11:10 AM
XBL is full of tools? This is nothing new. In aggregate, it's one of the worst communities in gaming.

XBL is one of the reasons I opt for the PC version of games when I can.

LongStepMantis
12-08-2008, 11:14 AM
The good news is, like the article states, morons who don't work together simply always lose. I'd imagine once they realize they never win they'll move long.

Squidbot
12-08-2008, 11:15 AM
At the risk of sounding snarky, this is why Left 4 Dead should only be played on PC. For the sake of those who play on LIVE for whatever reason, hopefully the game will survive Halo Horde rampaging through until the next shiny new game is dangled in front of them.

Assholes are not a console exclusive. Multiplayer shitheads existed before Xbox Live.

Wolvie
12-08-2008, 11:19 AM
At the risk of sounding snarky, this is why Left 4 Dead should only be played on PC. For the sake of those who play on LIVE for whatever reason, hopefully the game will survive Halo Horde rampaging through until the next shiny new game is dangled in front of them.

Now that's just silly, a few fucktards invade the game for a few weeks until the next flavor of the week arrives and whisks them away? The real solution is to just play co-op with the rest of the adults, and avoid versus until these idiots move on to the next flavor of the week.

Also...

At the risk of making sense, this is why ALL online games should be played with people you know. Especially on XBL.

This...

Assholes are not a console exclusive. Multiplayer shitheads existed before Xbox Live.

And this. XBL has griefers, fratboys, rednecks, and assholes. But the PC has griefers, modders, hackers, and assholes. So it evens out.

Personally, I have slowly but surely become disenchanted with adversarial death match modes. Too many "serious" gamers being elite. Too many frat boys screaming obscenities into your ear. Too many rednecks calling people racial slurs, and slinging homophobic hate speech.

Give me a good single player game, or a co-op game and let the man-children play in their sandbox throwing dirt in each others eyes and laughing like the big drooling idiots they are.

My brother-in-law is exempt from this crowd because he's actually intelligent. :D

digitalErich
12-08-2008, 11:20 AM
Assholes are not a console exclusive. Multiplayer shitheads existed before Xbox Live.
Yes, they did...but never in as great of number or as a larger percentage of the player base as they do on XBL. XBL and the 360 are great, the aggregate population of XBL players are terrible.

Wackman3000
12-08-2008, 11:21 AM
While I agree that this game is designed to be played with your friends, you can find decent opponents to play against at times.

Yesterday a team of 3 other COGS and I manged to have a great match against a group of pubbies who seemed to be working quite well together.... Then the server crashed. That said, I would never play WITH strangers, only against them.

Squidbot
12-08-2008, 11:22 AM
You've not played WoW then? ;)

I agree with the "Just play with friends" statements, I follow that rule for pretty much all multiplayer games.

jpc_theoneandonly
12-08-2008, 11:23 AM
Yeah. This is old news because it applys to just about every game on xbox live. You can't cure ignorance. It carries over into every aspect of life. Wether it is playing a game online or walking down the street. It is just more rampant when the ignorant assholes don't have to show their faces or reveal their true identity. Thank God for the mute and avoid player options. Oh, and an extensive friends list.

Wolvie
12-08-2008, 11:29 AM
You've not played WoW then? ;)

I agree with the "Just play with friends" statements, I follow that rule for pretty much all multiplayer games.

Oh I've played WoW, asshole gankers are the very reason I stopped playing that game.

But yeah, I've learned by playing strangers on Halo, that playing with strangers is just pointless... unless you like playing with assholes, and losing.

Ink Asylum
12-08-2008, 11:32 AM
Now that's just silly, a few fucktards invade the game for a few weeks until the next flavor of the week arrives and whisks them away? The real solution is to just play co-op with the rest of the adults, and avoid versus until these idiots move on to the next flavor of the week.


I warned you it was going to sound snarky. I don't mean it literally. However, for any multiplayer game that requires a large degree of co-operation to achieve even a modicum of success you're much more likely to find random pubbies that are willing to work together on the PC.

Orca
12-08-2008, 11:35 AM
Wow, Jim Sterling rants about something. How fresh is that?

PC gaming is hardly free of assholes. It's where the terms for griefing were invented, after all.

Wolvie
12-08-2008, 11:38 AM
I warned you it was going to sound snarky. I don't mean it literally. However, for any multiplayer game that requires a large degree of co-operation to achieve even a modicum of success you're much more likely to find random pubbies that are willing to work together on the PC.

Well that's not entirely true. I've found different games on XBL have different audiences. The Ghost Recon/CoD kind of games usually have a community of mature types who work together. It's just in games like Halo or Battlefield that have the idiots.
Don't like idiots? Don't play versus mode right after launch, and just avoid games like Halo... or at least don't play on a team of strangers.

LongStepMantis
12-08-2008, 11:43 AM
Well that's not entirely true. I've found different games on XBL have different audiences. The Ghost Recon/CoD kind of games usually have a community of mature types who work together. It's just in games like Halo or Battlefield that have the idiots.
Don't like idiots? Don't play versus mode right after launch, and just avoid games like Halo... or at least don't play on a team of strangers.

Games that require strategy and teamwork don't appeal to those kinds of players for long. So if you want to avoid them, play games that don't allow you to "one man army" your way to victory. They hate that. It's like Kryptonite to their egos.

Haemorrhage
12-08-2008, 11:55 AM
Now I pose the question, do you think the assholes on Xbox Live would be even worse if membership was free?

Does the paid membership help to weed out the riffraff by fear of banning? Or will it continue to attract assholes regardless of cost?

Sense Field
12-08-2008, 12:01 PM
At the risk of sounding snarky, this is why Left 4 Dead should only be played on PC. For the sake of those who play on LIVE for whatever reason, hopefully the game will survive Halo Horde rampaging through until the next shiny new game is dangled in front of them.

I've never had a problem on live...maybe because I only play with people I know. Do PC players play in public rooms a lot?

Wolvie
12-08-2008, 12:02 PM
Games that require strategy and teamwork don't appeal to those kinds of players for long. So if you want to avoid them, play games that don't allow you to "one man army" your way to victory. They hate that. It's like Kryptonite to their egos.

So L4D should break these idiots in short order then.

Great success! :D

Sandman
12-08-2008, 12:05 PM
Now I pose the question, do you think the assholes on Xbox Live would be even worse if membership was free?

Does the paid membership help to weed out the riffraff by fear of banning? Or will it continue to attract assholes regardless of cost?

I don't think it really matters. ~$50 a year is nothing to most the people who are like that.....I'd even wager that about 80% of that crowd doesn't pay it themselves.

Mike Kelehan
12-08-2008, 12:10 PM
I've played limited Versus, but even when I do that, it's on a team with 3 others I know. Since you can't talk to the other team (and we're in a private party anyway), there's really no issue.

Usually, though, we play co-op. It's NEVER a problem getting three people together (two of which are splitscreening on my end), and if we can't get a fourth, we just let the CPU take care of it and leave the slot open only for friends to pop in.

digitalErich
12-08-2008, 12:11 PM
I've never had a problem on live...maybe because I only play with people I know. Do PC players play in public rooms a lot?
I play in pubs a lot, but in the PC world it's a bit different. I play on pub servers, but I stick to the same handful of servers for each game.

You find a well moderated server with a good group of regulars that you eventually start to know and you stick around. It's the best of both worlds...you get to play with people you "know" and you have the freedom of jumping in and out, absolutely on your own whims, without having to wrangle up a handful of people from your friends list, if any are on at the time.

People complain about not having dedicated servers on XBL because of the technical reasons...more lag, smaller number of players, but the above is why I want dedicated servers on consoles...the micro-communities that spring up around them. Better ping and more players are secondary.

KingGorilla
12-08-2008, 12:16 PM
It is funny, Valve, Dice, Blizzard make their bannings rather public. And the complaints on other forums where people complain about being banned for spam, threats, are easily found. There are GMs if you need to complain, and the server system allows a host to maintain the caliber of player that they want. Which is why you find CS servers hosted by youth groups.

Microsoft has never shown any inclination to quality control the likes of which one would expect of a gaming service. When I hear Major Nelson talk on the topic, it has become a twisted point of pride on how many fucktards there are. Making jokes and snide remarks over changes to his service, which I would expect of a community manager.

digitalErich
12-08-2008, 12:23 PM
There's your problem...listening to Major Nelson. Has he ever been honest or had anything of note to say other than announcing the next big Live marketing push? He's "Community Manager" for a community that is anything but.

I remember the 1up Show mentioning how he wanted to be on their podcast and (Garnett I think it was) stating that they wouldn't be letting him on the show as he's just a mouthpeice for MS/Live marketing (he said it in a much nicer way). I say kudos to that.

Norse
12-08-2008, 12:27 PM
It is funny, Valve, Dice, Blizzard make their bannings rather public. And the complaints on other forums where people complain about being banned for spam, threats, are easily found. There are GMs if you need to complain, and the server system allows a host to maintain the caliber of player that they want. Which is why you find CS servers hosted by youth groups.

Microsoft has never shown any inclination to quality control the likes of which one would expect of a gaming service. When I hear Major Nelson talk on the topic, it has become a twisted point of pride on how many fucktards there are. Making jokes and snide remarks over changes to his service, which I would expect of a community manager.

MN isn't a community manager. The guys over at Gamerscore blog (http://www.gamerscoreblog.com) are.

Are American Live users worse than the rest of the world? When I play against random people I rarely hear the bullshit you guys are experiencing.

Khrymsyn
12-08-2008, 02:17 PM
Yes, they did...but never in as great of number or as a larger percentage of the player base as they do on XBL. XBL and the 360 are great, the aggregate population of XBL players are terrible.

Apparently you never played CounterStrike then...

National Kato
12-08-2008, 02:21 PM
Apparently you never played CounterStrike then...

Yes, there's no shortage of online douchebags no matter the platform. :p Ah, Counterstrike...

Khrymsyn
12-08-2008, 02:22 PM
Yes, there's no shortage of online douchebags no matter the platform. :p

Kato, I appreciate throwing the softball into the air for me, but I'll be nice this time and let it go....

;-)

LongStepMantis
12-08-2008, 02:27 PM
Yes, there's no shortage of online douchebags no matter the platform. :p Ah, Counterstrike...

The one thing that kept me in CS long after I should have quit was that I'd played it for so long I was really good at it. My average was around 50 kills to 8 deaths. But I had been playing CS at that time, for about 6 solid years as my main game.

Nothing ruins internet assholes as much as losing to a guy who doesn't speak.:D

J Arcane
12-08-2008, 02:36 PM
THere are three things I'd like to note here:

1) Erich and Gorilla are righ. There's a greater degree of server moderation present on the PC. With private dedicated servers you will find servers with admins who actually give a fuck about maintaining a certain quality of experience. In the case of big catchall games like WoW or whatnot, there's still GMs and things wehose job is to filter out at least some of the riff raff.

2) The greater the popularity, the greater the douchebag quotient. THat's the case across all platforms. Wow has a greater concentration of douchebags than most games because WoW has 10 million people playing it. Everyone and their mother has Counterstrike horror stories, because everyone and their mother has played Counterstrike. Games like Halo and XBL in general have a huge userbase, with little limiting factors to join compared to the PC, so there's going to be a greater number of douchebags.

3) Major Nelson is a fucking guerilla marketing mouthpiece and nothing more. I've actually called people out in the past for quoting any damn thing he says, because he's a paid shill and nothing more. I'd do the same if people started quoting "facts" or posting news from "ThreeSpeech".

LongStepMantis
12-08-2008, 02:39 PM
Can't forget the #1 deterrent to CS morons.

You can't respawn. Nothing kills the enthusiasm of your average moron like dying in the first 10 seconds and having to wait 5 minutes for respawn. The downside to that is the idiots persistent enough to wait it out tend to be uber-assholes. Kind of like drug-resistant bacteria...the meanest, strongest ones survive.

Ink Asylum
12-08-2008, 02:40 PM
Apparently you never played CounterStrike then...

Fortunately for PC gamers, CS players by and large stay in CS. They don't migrate en masse from new shooter to new shooter, razing the games and face-humping the corpses.

This is also appropriate:

http://www.penny-arcade.com/images/2006/20061120.jpg

Wolvie
12-08-2008, 02:41 PM
2) The greater the popularity, the greater the douchebag quotient. THat's the case across all platforms. Wow has a greater concentration of douchebags than most games because WoW has 10 million people playing it. Everyone and their mother has Counterstrike horror stories, because everyone and their mother has played Counterstrike. Games like Halo and XBL in general have a huge userbase, with little limiting factors to join compared to the PC, so there's going to be a greater number of douchebags.



This is just fact. That's why Halo has such a high number of dicks playing, because it's really fucking popular. It's not all MS and XBL's fault, any game with a high fan base will have a lot of bastards floating around it.

It's not fair to say all XBL games have a high percentage of dicks, because there are games on the service with great communities... those happen to be the ones that take brains to play, like GRAW, and Rainbow Six. Those kinds of games also scare away Trailer park Bubba , but you get the point.

J Arcane
12-08-2008, 02:44 PM
Most CS gamers play CS because they're cheap fuckers who refuse to upgrade to a computer made in this century. I've known fuckers like this IRL, still puttering along in 1.6 because they're too cheap or too lazy to buy a machine capable of running anything newer than 1996.

LongStepMantis
12-08-2008, 02:48 PM
Most CS gamers play CS because they're cheap fuckers who refuse to upgrade to a computer made in this century. I've known fuckers like this IRL, still puttering along in 1.6 because they're too cheap or too lazy to buy a machine capable of running anything newer than 1996.

I can't vouch for the current or even recent CS community.

I played from probably around 97 to 2004...so It's been almost five years since I touched it. It was getting a lot worse around the time I quit, so by now it could be an absolute cesspool...judging from the comments, that sounds about right.

Wolvie
12-08-2008, 02:48 PM
Most CS gamers play CS because they're cheap fuckers who refuse to upgrade to a computer made in this century. I've known fuckers like this IRL, still puttering along in 1.6 because they're too cheap or too lazy to buy a machine capable of running anything newer than 1996.

Yep, and let's not forget that CS is free. So there's that.

Food Nipple
12-08-2008, 02:50 PM
Apparently you never played CounterStrike then...

I never played much CS, but I did play a lot of DotA, whose community is nearly as bad and in some ways much worse.

The thing about the PC is that groups of players can self-regulate the assholes. Find a couple of no-nonsense servers with good moderation and you'll never have a problem again.

The DotA community even went one farther and centralized everything. They had whitelists, blacklists, a homemade matchmaking system with bots that announced available games and kicked banned players.

Only on Xbox Live are these morons so much trouble. The self-regulation on the PC hides most of asshats from view.

Khrymsyn
12-08-2008, 02:54 PM
Most CS gamers play CS because they're cheap fuckers who refuse to upgrade to a computer made in this century. I've known fuckers like this IRL, still puttering along in 1.6 because they're too cheap or too lazy to buy a machine capable of running anything newer than 1996.


Actually... I was referring to back when CS was new, on the original half life.

All the damn complaining about "awp whore"s and "goddamn n@#$er camper!" type stuff was rampant just being typed. Not to mention the sprays.

Unless I knew who was running the server, I avoided it. Kind of like now on Live I generally only play with folks I know.

crazyD
12-08-2008, 03:06 PM
Actually... I was referring to back when CS was new, on the original half life.

All the damn complaining about "awp whore"s and "goddamn n@#$er camper!" type stuff was rampant just being typed. Not to mention the sprays.

Unless I knew who was running the server, I avoided it. Kind of like now on Live I generally only play with folks I know.

To be fair, though, AWPers suck. Also, auto shotty bitches.

Khrymsyn
12-08-2008, 03:10 PM
To be fair, though, AWPers suck. Also, auto shotty bitches.

I use to love my AWP
course, it was a little silly when it used to 1 shot kill someone by hitting them in the toe.

Man... it's been a long time since I've played. wonder if it's worth trying it again.

Xydarc
12-08-2008, 03:13 PM
Heh, you don't see this kinda thing on PSN.

Because hardly anyone is using it.

crazyD
12-08-2008, 03:14 PM
I use to love my AWP
course, it was a little silly when it used to 1 shot kill someone by hitting them in the toe.

Man... it's been a long time since I've played. wonder if it's worth trying it again.

That's why the scout is awesome. Faster rate of fire, and it actually takes a bit of skill to kill someone!

I have not played in a while, but never was a fan of the AWP. 9 time out of 10, I could kill an AWPer with my M4 / AK, but that one time they get a cheap shot is just so frustrating.

Khrymsyn
12-08-2008, 03:34 PM
That's why the scout is awesome. Faster rate of fire, and it actually takes a bit of skill to kill someone!

I have not played in a while, but never was a fan of the AWP. 9 time out of 10, I could kill an AWPer with my M4 / AK, but that one time they get a cheap shot is just so frustrating.


trust me... when you're rockin a ping of 250, and everyone else on the server has thier brand spankin new 80ms DSL connection... you need all the help you can get!

LongStepMantis
12-08-2008, 03:37 PM
That's why the scout is awesome. Faster rate of fire, and it actually takes a bit of skill to kill someone!

I have not played in a while, but never was a fan of the AWP. 9 time out of 10, I could kill an AWPer with my M4 / AK, but that one time they get a cheap shot is just so frustrating.

The scout was great simply because how pissed it made people when you dropped them with it and they had an AWP. You were obviously cheating. ;)

Morangie
12-08-2008, 03:45 PM
It is funny, Valve, Dice, Blizzard make their bannings rather public. And the complaints on other forums where people complain about being banned for spam, threats, are easily found. There are GMs if you need to complain, and the server system allows a host to maintain the caliber of player that they want. Which is why you find CS servers hosted by youth groups.

Microsoft has never shown any inclination to quality control the likes of which one would expect of a gaming service. When I hear Major Nelson talk on the topic, it has become a twisted point of pride on how many fucktards there are. Making jokes and snide remarks over changes to his service, which I would expect of a community manager.

While not part of Microsoft anymore, Bungie regularly post on bannings. Check out the wahbulance postings on bungie.net.

Variable Gear
12-08-2008, 04:09 PM
Does he have a point? Is XBL really that bad?
He's right, because the XBL community fucking sucks.

JayK47
12-08-2008, 05:07 PM
This is why I am glad coop is becoming more and more popular. Even better would be to have coop as the only source of multiplayer. I think too many games are having multiplayer, and I would rather the dev team focus on more single player/coop content. It takes all of 2 seconds with a headset on and mute off in any xbox live game to realize that the majority of people who play online are mentally retarded at best. What scares me is the quantity. What is the retard ratio these days? 75%? Stop retards from having retard babies.

Xydarc
12-08-2008, 05:30 PM
Idiocracy (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0387808/) is coming true. Mike Judge was a prophet!:eek:

MagGnome
12-08-2008, 05:49 PM
Idiocracy (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0387808/) is coming true. Mike Judge was a prophet!:eek:

shud up stoopid

KingGorilla
12-08-2008, 06:14 PM
shud up stoopid
When he spoke in an ordinary voice he sounded pompous and faggy to them.

Xerxes
12-08-2008, 07:40 PM
I like playing with friends I wish more games worked towards keeping parties together. Totally together. I haven't had problems with that many though.

RandoM51
12-09-2008, 01:34 AM
Shocking, a significant percentage of adolescent males when given anonymity will be dicks.

Yeti2005
12-09-2008, 07:48 AM
This is what party chat is for. You don't have to listen to anyone you don't want to.

True, true. The party system in Live makes dealing with assholes a thing of the past.

Edit: I heard a funny story about one asshole playing L4D who kept getting himself killed so his teammates didn't even bother getting him out of the closet.

MildSauceLopez
12-09-2008, 10:35 AM
Totally agree with the destructoid post. I also think that Left 4 Dead is ruined by players who only play the game to "win". Left 4 Dead for me is more about the experience rather than trying to get the most kills or beat the level. Players who constantly gripe about not setting off car alarms or disturbing the witch get on my nerves. Sure it will send an army of the dead at you, but that's what is fun about the game. Killing Zombies!

Ink Asylum
12-09-2008, 10:38 AM
Losing can be just as fun as winning sometimes. I know I'd rather have an exhilirating battle that has the survivors picked off one by one as they struggle to the helicopter only to have the last one punched off a roof by the Tank then have all four make it to safety well in the green.