Oh, Hello.

[modeps]

So, after quite a long deliberation today, discussing with several parties, I've decided that I can't make a decision in CoG or EvAv and will be straddling the party line.

My primary posting will still be in the news section of EvAv, but I will also be coming around here to say hello and what not... particularly in the Weight Loss Club thread (http://www.colonyofgamers.com/cogforums/showthread.php?t=83) (hey, can we get a health/fitness section up in this bitch?)

I've come to enjoy most of you IRC'ers and while I was playing TF2, it was truly a great time. I'd just like to say one final thing. I'm sorry the fracture happened.

[LiquidRain]

This might be a bit of a case of pooping in a thread, but... I just can't see how anyone can stay over there considering what the man did with donation money, let alone enabling that behaviour by helping the site.

[Aggort]

I'll be bouncing for people's sake, but it seems the vast majority I give a rats ass about have made it here.

[Karak]

Good to see ya.

[modeps]

This might be a bit of a case of pooping in a thread, but... I just can't see how anyone can stay over there considering what the man did with donation money, let alone enabling that behaviour by helping the site.

I didn't start this thread to discuss my decision, just that I'm here and there. If you look down upon my choice, that's your prerogative.

[Karak]

This might be a bit of a case of pooping in a thread, but... I just can't see how anyone can stay over there considering what the man did with donation money, let alone enabling that behaviour by helping the site.

Many of us have no clue what your talking about.

[Widgetcraft]

Many of us have no clue what your talking about.

EvAv received something like $7200 in donations, and the site only takes a few hundred to host. Bap and others who have traveled for the site, and bought stuff for giveaways and such, were never given any of that money. Where did it go?

:rolleyes:

Just what I heard, anyway.

[fitbabits]

Welcome, modeps...

I wish you the best of luck at Evil Avatar.

Feel free to stop by any time - you'll always be welcome.

[maharahaj]

EvAv received something like $7200 in donations, and the site only takes a few hundred to host. Bap and others who have traveled for the site, and bought stuff for giveaways and such, were never given any of that money. Where did it go?

:rolleyes:

So that is the official "backroom" reason? The straw that broke the camel's back?

[Zero]

EvAv received something like $7200 in donations, and the site only takes a few hundred to host. Bap and others who have traveled for the site, and bought stuff for giveaways and such, were never given any of that money. Where did it go?

:rolleyes:

Just what I heard, anyway.

First thing that came to mind... How the fuck could he not have a decent computer?

[LiquidRain]

I didn't start this thread to discuss my decision, just that I'm here and there. If you look down upon my choice, that's your prerogative.
That's fair enough. That is indeed my prerogative, and if that's your choice, that's your choice.

e: spelling

[Fubl]

LOL Now that was good

[Bingley Joe]

People can take everything away from you
But they can never take away your truth...

f5YWqtOQq8s
It's ridiculous how à propos that is on so many levels.
EDIT: woops.. meant to say -- especially what he says at the end ;)


Glad to see you here, modeps. :)

[TheFlyingOrc]

LOL we'll have him soon.

[TheKeck]

I'd just like to say one final thing. I'm sorry the fracture happened.
You should be sorry, it was all your fault!!! :mad:

(That was a total joke, of course.)

[TheKeck]

EvAv received something like $7200 in donations, and the site only takes a few hundred to host. Bap and others who have traveled for the site, and bought stuff for giveaways and such, were never given any of that money. Where did it go?

:rolleyes:

Just what I heard, anyway.
Wait, so is there truth to this? I haven't heard this whole part of the story. That sucks.

[AgtFox]

Wait, so is there truth to this? I haven't heard this whole part of the story. That sucks.
Yes, except the donation level was higher than that in, I think, a 13 month space. So, that's just the last 13 months or so...who knows about earlier than that.

Also, hosting cost a couple hundred or so per month. Now do some math...and the donation amount does not include the ad amount he makes which we have no clue on (we can only guess).

Bap and fits have also gone on record saying they spent about $10k a piece during their time at EA going on various trips and other things and not being reimbursed for it even after constant promising of such a thing. The only thing they got out of it was bap got a PS3 I think.

Evil will no doubt refute that or, like he did with bap and fits, say that he doesn't discuss site finances (even though most of it comes from donations by the community).

[Wilkz07]

Screw the EvAv (after what i heard what happend, even though i didn't donate it was still a dick thing to do).

Plus I always enjoyed reading Fox and bapenguin's reviews. so i'm switching to CoG.

(how do you embed youtube vids like whats post above?)

[JediSanf]

Bap and fits have also gone on record saying they spent about $10k a piece during their time at EA going on various trips and other things and not being reimbursed for it even after constant promising of such a thing. The only thing they got out of it was bap got a PS3 I think.

Evil will no doubt refute that or, like he did with bap and fits, say that he doesn't discuss site finances (even though most of it comes from donations by the community).

You know, if this becomes a concern in the future, it might not be a bad idea for CoG to incorporate.

[J Arcane]

This might be a bit of a case of pooping in a thread, but... I just can't see how anyone can stay over there considering what the man did with donation money, let alone enabling that behaviour by helping the site.
Seriously. The man has no respect whatsoever for any of the people posting or contributing to the site.

I just don't understand the mindset of staying on somewhere where the man in charge thinks so little of those "beneath" him.

[TheKeck]

Yes, except the donation level was higher than that in, I think, a 13 month space. So, that's just the last 13 months or so...who knows about earlier than that.

Also, hosting cost a couple hundred or so per month. Now do some math...and the donation amount does not include the ad amount he makes which we have no clue on (we can only guess).

Bap and fits have also gone on record saying they spent about $10k a piece during their time at EA going on various trips and other things and not being reimbursed for it even after constant promising of such a thing. The only thing they got out of it was bap got a PS3 I think.

Evil will no doubt refute that or, like he did with bap and fits, say that he doesn't discuss site finances (even though most of it comes from donations by the community).
Man, that blows. Goes way beyond the Magic PC thing and all the censoring bull crap.

[AgtFox]

Man, that blows. Goes way beyond the Magic PC thing and all the censoring bull crap.
And now you know why we left en mass from there and started working toward what you now see.

[AgtFox]

Plus I always enjoyed reading Fox and bapenguin's reviews. so i'm switching to CoG.
Thanks, he and I have a dual review coming up. The opening of this site kind of delayed it a bit, but I hope to have my half done before the end of the weekend.

Also, TrackZero will probably be doing some reviews at times as well. He's done a good job on the previews like the one he put up today.

[Wilkz07]

Thanks, he and I have a dual review coming up. The opening of this site kind of delayed it a bit, but I hope to have my half done before the end of the weekend.

Also, TrackZero will probably be doing some reviews at times as well. He's done a good job on the previews like the one he put up today.

I was going to add 'totally bias reviews' but didn't want to get kicked off the forums so shortly after joining. jk.

need more video reviews!

[dotbomb]

EvAv received something like $7200 in donations, and the site only takes a few hundred to host. Bap and others who have traveled for the site, and bought stuff for giveaways and such, were never given any of that money. Where did it go?

:rolleyes:

Just what I heard, anyway.

Wow not surprising. As I mentioned in another thread I never donated because when I asked about it I was told there was no accounting for the money compared to expenses. I don't give money to any organization that has no public accounting for it. If this really happened that sucks hard.

[Sl1pstream]

On the Sunday at PAX, a few of us were playing around with the idea of getting an EvAv booth and how much it would cost to get one. If this was known and properly discussed, we would've been halfway to that booth. EvAv would've gotten even more of a presence and the site would've gotten more traffic and members, meaning a growth of the community

If this was known, money could've gone to other causes. We got the money Gunny needed together quite quickly. Evil shaving his moustache doesn't sound too good of him after this.

There could've been more people going to E3 last year and it probably would've cost each of them less money than it did for 2 people this year.

There are a ton of uses for the money Evil basically spent on hookers and blow.

[Mdot]

That's lame as fuck if it's the truth.

[Slack3r78]

Yes, except the donation level was higher than that in, I think, a 13 month space. So, that's just the last 13 months or so...who knows about earlier than that.

Also, hosting cost a couple hundred or so per month. Now do some math...and the donation amount does not include the ad amount he makes which we have no clue on (we can only guess).

Bap and fits have also gone on record saying they spent about $10k a piece during their time at EA going on various trips and other things and not being reimbursed for it even after constant promising of such a thing. The only thing they got out of it was bap got a PS3 I think.

Evil will no doubt refute that or, like he did with bap and fits, say that he doesn't discuss site finances (even though most of it comes from donations by the community).
I had strong suspicions that the story was something like this. I'm mostly disappointed that I was right.

[Kelegacy]

I have had suspicions about donating since day one. Through the generosity of bap and fits, as well as the other EvAv staff, I have won a few things of worth from the site, like the Xmas giveaways and various contests. I think I have a couple games to show for it anyway. I loved what they did for the site.

But the constant calls for donations always made me leery. I saw so many people at EvAv pink or green in color, so that meant at least $100 donated per person. And when the cycles for donations seemed to happen more than seemed prudent, I became a bit skeptical. I knew the staffers spent some of their own cash doing things for the site, and I had a feeling little was trickled their way...and THESE WERE THE PEOPLE DOING ALL THE WORK FOR THE SITE!

We have secretly wanted bapenguin and company to move on for a while now. At least I harbored those feelings, and shared them with a few others. We really respect those guys. I think bapenguin and I have a lot in common, which is why I can trust him so much, not to mention he has done an incalculable amount of work for the site that so noticeable showed his blood sweat and tears. AgtFox and his AAA reviews, DrFinger with his newspostings, fitbabits with his cockteasing...and his warmth and good nature (and hard work getting us exclusive news!).

I think many of us who moved have this thing called a conscience, and perhaps empathy. We know what these guys had to go through to bring us the best that they could at EvAv--and we love them for it. We benefited from the site by doing nothing but logging on each day. I'd trust them with my donation in a heartbeat, as I trust them as kin. I'm dedicated to making CoG a greater place than any other gaming site on the net, and I mean it. I'm just a lowly member of the community, but we're a lot more powerful than we may believe. Look at us; we just up and moved to an entirely new site in the span of a couple days. We were EvAv's soul. No great feat.

I've had a couple beers, I ramble. Sorry.

[mister slim]

There's over a hundred $100 subscribers and five times that in basic subscribers. Even if you calculate using the bare minimum to qualify, which would be a very low estimate, that's a huge chunk of money.

[Shandor]

That's lame as fuck if it's the truth.

Agreed. Pretty frustrating (from a donating reader's standpoint).

[fitbabits]

Agreed. Pretty frustrating (from a donating reader's standpoint).
Not to belittle anyone, but it's the tip of the frustration iceberg for me personally. I feel like I was conned, and in doing so I conned the community. It makes me sick to my stomach that I was somehow complicit in the people donating what they did.

[pomeroy]

Not to belittle anyone, but it's the tip of the frustration iceberg for me personally. I feel like I was conned, and in doing so I conned the community. It makes me sick to my stomach that I was somehow complicit in the people donating what they did.

You didn't con anyone. Don't ever think differently.

[NoName]

I've never really disliked EvAv through all this, but after hearing this, even if there's only some remote truth, it's a vile thought.

*sigh* Why must sucky people ruin things for others in the world.

[Sl1pstream]

It makes me sick to my stomach that I was somehow complicit in the people donating what they did.

I honestly don't think anyone is going to blame you or Nick (only mentioning the admins here, the mods obviously aren't to blame either). I'm pretty sure that what happened in August opened everyone's eyes to who Philip really is.

If they were going to blame anyone other than the man responsible, they wouldn't have moved over here.

[Shandor]

Agreed. I have no gripe towards you guys. :)

[n3rdXcore]

Wow I didn't realize the reason for leaving was that intense. I thought it was due to the censorship issues taking place. Now I feel much better about changing my browser's home page from EvAv to CoG.

[Everyone vs Dinosaurs]

I never really thought about all the donation money that was trickling into Evil Avatar. Generally, it is the assumption, that the money would go towards positive things for the forum and community, not the owners cash fun.

[Ox]

I would have been fine with donating money to Evil's hookers-and-blow fund; I liked the community enough my donation was merely an indication of gratitude. In retrospect, however, I would have preferred two things:

1. Honesty about where the money was going; and

2. Pics.

[Maskatron]

2. Pics.

Ew. EWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW!!!!

[Zero]

Mustache rides ahoy!

[anakin876]

I wonder if Evil discovered that he could make hosting fees based on visitor ad revenue alone? Right now there are 53 registered users on at EvAv, but 309 visitors. Hmmm. very interesting.

[AgtFox]

I wonder if Evil discovered that he could make hosting fees based on visitor ad revenue alone? Right now there are 53 registered users on at EvAv, but 309 visitors. Hmmm. very interesting.
One thing that is unknown is how much he actually makes in ad revenue. Bap talked to CheapyD over at Cheap Ass Gamer and Cheapy thought EA had to be making (I forget the number) per month. I think it was at least 3 digits per month he SHOULD be making...that doesn't mean he was making it.

We can only go on the hard numbers of donations that was seen, ad revenue is an unknown amount per month.

[fitbabits]

One thing that is unknown is how much he actually makes in ad revenue. Bap talked to CheapyD over at Cheap Ass Gamer and Cheapy thought EA had to be making (I forget the number) per month. I think it was at least 3 digits per month he SHOULD be making...that doesn't mean he was making it.

We can only go on the hard numbers of donations that was seen, ad revenue is an unknown amount per month.

It was enough to comfortably pay for hosting, at the very least.

[pheriannath]

It was enough to cause us to make this awesome site.

/shill

[Whunpo]

Not to belittle anyone, but it's the tip of the frustration iceberg for me personally. I feel like I was conned, and in doing so I conned the community. It makes me sick to my stomach that I was somehow complicit in the people donating what they did.
Fits, never think that again. If you and all the reds hadn't been there to save us from Evil, we all would have kept donating and kept donating.

[Bingley Joe]

Not to belittle anyone, but it's the tip of the frustration iceberg for me personally. I feel like I was conned, and in doing so I conned the community. It makes me sick to my stomach that I was somehow complicit in the people donating what they did.

No no no no no!! I think I probably speak for a lot of people when I say that I always just kind of assumed subscribing was what let you, bap, Scott, Fox, and lots of other dedicated staff members keep doing their thing. It really was a great site under your watchful [Evil]eyes, and personally, I was only too happy to donate once I figured out that's how things worked (or so I thought, at least..).

It was also pretty damn obvious that Evil's contribution to things didn't really amount to a whole lot in comparison, but that never really bothered me all that much; as far as I was concerned, it was worth it to me to donate money to him, if it allowed him to employ the talents of such a fine crew. I'm sad to learn the reality was that he was just spending it all frolicking in grape Jello with lithe young goats.

But don't ever feel like you should shoulder any guilt for that. Seriously.


... especially the goat part.

[Zero]

Fits, never think that again. If you and all the reds hadn't been there to save us from Evil, we all would have kept donating and kept donating.

I heartily second this. I was literally a day away from donating before you guys literally rescued me from there. If and when you guys set up donations here, I plan on donating first day.

[fitbabits]

I heartily second this. I was literally a day away from donating before you guys literally rescued me from there. If and when you guys set up donations here, I plan on donating first day.

Literally...? :)

[dotbomb]

I run a site that uses 12meg/sec per month for its 95th percentile and rents a full rack of equipment. The donation drives never made sense to me given the fact he also has ads. I remember one day I was magically orange and I was surprised but I enjoyed it since at that same time the lightsaber thread was moved :D

[LordDon]

Wow, I don't feel so bad for only donating the bare minimum to get orange. Fuck you very much, Philip.

[Lint of Death]

Poor Gigafuzz! :(

[Jackel]

I'm glad my orange status came with me buying a copy of his zombie short story in that book, and then sending money (directly - thank god in case he skimmed some of that too) of gunnymo's rescue fund.

Btw...if anyone has a way to contact Gunny..they should let him know what happened.

[fitbabits]

Poor Gigafuzz! :(
Dude, I know... :(

[Jarvis]

I had no idea.... wish I wasn't pink over there now :mad: At least he didn't win when I gave away a copy of Forza 2, but he did enter! UGH!

Guess I'm done over there. Time to be the Extraordinary Lurker over here!

[pseudopseudo]

Yeah... $150 or so from me, down the drain. Sick.

[Sandman]

I'm glad my orange status came with me buying a copy of his zombie short story in that book, and then sending money (directly - thank god in case he skimmed some of that too) of gunnymo's rescue fund.

Btw...if anyone has a way to contact Gunny..they should let him know what happened.

Did anyone really like that story? It was probably the least original one of that book.

[fitbabits]

Did anyone really like that story? It was probably the least original one of that book.

I'm still waiting for the copy Evil promised to send me.

[rinichanraar]

I'm glad my orange status came with me buying a copy of his zombie short story in that book, and then sending money (directly - thank god in case he skimmed some of that too) of gunnymo's rescue fund.
Did anyone really like that story? It was probably the least original one of that book.

I'm not gonna' lie. I laughed out loud just now.

I bought it and never actually read it. :(

[Theonar]

That situation sucks...

James (sorry, I'm used to hearing your name on the radio show), I hope you get over the false guilt you seem to feel. I don't think you or any of the guys that set up this site have anything to feel guilty about.
I don't know all the details, but I know the general gist of the situation now - and that's all I need to know, and I wouldn't have known anything was wrong without you and the others setting up this site, since I don't tend to read forums much these days. So thanks for the heads up.

I'm an optimist at heart, and I believe there should be more honesty in the world. From the looks of things, I think I'm going to like this site.

[Lint of Death]

I bought it and never actually read it. :(

That's probably the funniest response I could imagine for the subject.

[n3rdXcore]

2. Pics.

True or false: nastiest mustache ride ever? Answer: True.

[Slack3r78]

Not to belittle anyone, but it's the tip of the frustration iceberg for me personally. I feel like I was conned, and in doing so I conned the community. It makes me sick to my stomach that I was somehow complicit in the people donating what they did.
James,

I really don't think anyone can blame you for anything. You did what you thought was right at the time, and it's certainly not your fault that you were lied to.

It sounds silly, but know that, at least from this jilted donator's mind, you did it right all along. I'd be hard pressed to think of anyone more committed to doing what was right than you. You've got your head on straight and care where it matters. CoG is certainly proof of that, and I think that most of us are aware of how painful moving on was for you (and the rest of us).

You're a good guy, man. None of this changes that.

[modeps]

At least the thread I created to tell you my decision didn't turn into yet another discussion of this rift.

[NoName]

At least the thread I created to tell you my decision didn't turn into yet another discussion of this rift.

If it's any consolation, you're thread turned into the calmest and most heartfelt discussion of the topic to date.

[Mashidar]

You know I only donated to the site because I assumed that it was going to support the site. Hearing this makes me feel bad, but I can't hate the site for it, just the host of the site. Frankly EvAv was the first site I ever felt was worth donating to. News and information from Bap and others as well as the comments of folks in general on the forums really made the site for me. I don't think I've even ever read a post or thought about one that was made by Evil Avatar himself, for the most part whenever I wanted to know something he was the last person I would of went to for information.

Yet all things happen for a reason, and I don't feel history will repeat once this site decides to go the donation route. The staff here and the folks here make me feel like I did when I first went to EvAv, and that was a feeling of community. Sure most of the folks here were the same folks I enjoyed reading about from EvAv but again sites like this are made by community and now CoG has one of the best communities on the net.

Look forward towards the future, and gaming with all of you folks.

[Hotcod]

The only thing i can say is that i wish this would have come to light a lot sooner and saved us all a heck of a lot of trouble and drama... but there is no one that can be blamed but evil him self in all this. He is truly an internet asshole of historic proportions and we can only hope that his site falls down around his ears.

I am at lest glad i've gotten more details about the exact reasons for the birth of cog... it was drving my nuts when every one was being so closed mouth about it heh

[Zero]

Literally...? :)

I'm super, super cheap. I adore money more than most things in the world. So in my awfully materialistic way... yeah, literally. :)

[Bingley Joe]

At least the thread I created to tell you my decision didn't turn into yet another discussion of this rift.

You seem like you have your head screwed on with some pretty high-quality hardware.. I hope this discussion - and the revelations it contains - has at least inspired you to try to get to the heart of the matter.

It would be a shame if this kind of thing happened to any other mods over there..

[roboninja]

I was a green "over there", and hearing this does make me feel used. It was the first time I ever donated to a website, and the first site where I actually wanted to be part of the community. That is now tainted in some way.

Of course, I will be donating to this place as soon as the option is availabe, and that is a testament to the great work of guys like bap, fits, and AgtFox. In these guys I trust, maybe more than ever before.

[J Arcane]

At least the thread I created to tell you my decision didn't turn into yet another discussion of this rift.
That's all you have to say?

Well, I guess you'll do fine as a moderator over there if it bothers you so little.

[LordDon]

Of course, I will be donating to this place as soon as the option is availabe, and that is a testament to the great work of guys like bap, fits, and AgtFox. In these guys I trust, maybe more than ever before.

Knowing what I know now, absolutely this.

[Maskatron]

I wonder how many people recall that this isn't the first time that a few moderators left EvAV in frustration and created a new site. That's exactly how Gamers With Jobs started. The drama was kept out of the public eye for the most part but I don't think it was exactly an amicable split. A decent amount of posters from EvAv at the time also became part of that community. They seem to have carved a pretty nice niche for themselves over the years.

[NoName]

I wonder how many people recall that this isn't the first time that a few moderators left EvAV in frustration and created a new site. That's exactly how Gamers With Jobs stated. The drama was kept out of the public eye for the most part but I don't think it was exactly an amicable split. A decent amount of posters from EvAv at the time also became part of that community. They seem to have carved a pretty nice niche for themselves over the years.

So you're saying EvAv is like the Matrix and every once in awhile it explodes and starts over?

[Karak]

...I am not sure if anyone should have assumed the donations were being spend correctly anyway? I mean it's a website and with no exact requirement for knowing every cent someone spends. I mean I donated a couple hundred in my years, but I don't really feel burned. I mean I donated and where it went from there I have no control over. Does it suck? Ya.
Was it expected? Maybe I am just cynical but...I was always expected SOME misuse.
I guess that is pretty cynical:(

[Raen]

Not to belittle anyone, but it's the tip of the frustration iceberg for me personally. I feel like I was conned, and in doing so I conned the community. It makes me sick to my stomach that I was somehow complicit in the people donating what they did.

I completely agree with all the other comments on this. I never even got what Evil really did on EvAv the few times I read over the forums. Nick, James et al. seemed to do all the real work of the site. I'll be happily donating here when something gets set up. I'd love it if the site got a booth at next year's PAX from donations, even if I can't go (stupid Atlantic ocean).

[TheKeck]

I wonder how many people recall that this isn't the first time that a few moderators left EvAV in frustration and created a new site. That's exactly how Gamers With Jobs started. The drama was kept out of the public eye for the most part but I don't think it was exactly an amicable split. A decent amount of posters from EvAv at the time also became part of that community. They seem to have carved a pretty nice niche for themselves over the years.
How long ago was this? Before my time, I suppose.

[Widgetcraft]

I wonder how many people recall that this isn't the first time that a few moderators left EvAV in frustration and created a new site. That's exactly how Gamers With Jobs stated. The drama was kept out of the public eye for the most part but I don't think it was exactly an amicable split. A decent amount of posters from EvAv at the time also became part of that community. They seem to have carved a pretty nice niche for themselves over the years.

Yeah, I actually dug up an interesting post (http://www.gamerswithjobs.com/node/18891) over there after the Magic PC fiasco:

I knew Certis from Evil Avatar, and when they threw up a link to the new site he was working on (GWJ) I bookmarked it. Not much to look at back at the start, but shortly after that I recall the main EA guy (what was his name?) was just totally out of line with some comment (and I usually found his trashings amusing) so I called him on it in the news comments. He fired back saying something along the lines of "you don't have to visit the site" plus a healthy surving of insolent attitude.

I honestly never went back. And considering I never even see them mentioned anywhere I assume they are falling into obscurity, or gone. I won't even bother giving them a hit to find out.

-James

I couldn't find some of the more fun quotes from over there that I had, but suffice to say, people were having a lot of the same problems with Evil four years ago.

[Maskatron]

Yeah, I think GWJ started around 2003 (archive.org seems to confirm this).

[TheKeck]

Yeah, I think GWJ started around 2003 (archive.org seems to confirm this).
Yeah, I'd say that was before my time. I think I started lurking in 2004.

[Goronmon]

I too am an Evil Avatar emigree. Evil Avatar has never recovered from that mass exodus of front-page talent and forum personae, and probably never will.It's funny that they were actually wrong. EvAv did recover, and then imploded all over again.

[divinechaos]

I logged out. Man, I can't believe that he would do that with the donation money... Fuck. Well, all that made me love the site were the colors and the community. I'll stop being shallow and enjoy the company.

[Purple Santa]

When I first started reading on here the "hints" of inappropriate use of funds I wondered how deep the rabbit hole went...now reading about possibly the money that was being horded...guess I was duped but it's not hard to do with me. I donated, and on many occasions donated to get people orange...whatever it took...I always heard the alarm for donatations...I like to help...guess that's a downfall at times. It's sad that people like Baps and Fits didn't get much for their time, in the end however...if this is how evil runs his life...having to "steal" money in that way...really sad...and i'm just glad I don't have a desire to run my life that way...

[bapenguin]

I was made a staff member because of GWJ. It was immediately after all those folks left. I had only been on the site for a few months so it didn't seem like a big deal to me. I didn't know the backroom workings of what caused the rift, I was just happy to help...much like modeps now.

Regardless of the numbers involved with whatever happened and whatever each side claims, the truth is never going to be completely told. It's not hard to figure out a guestimated amount of revenue that came from donations simply by adding up colors of people.

The whole magic PC fiasco of 2 months ago definitely set things in motion for me, and I knew my time was rapidly coming to a close. Evil was figuratively shitting on the people that I call friends just because they disagreed with him. Along those lines I've seen a great disconnect with the pulse of the gaming world from him - he just didn't get it anymore. Relationships not only with the community, but with publishers and developers that I had worked so hard to forge were in jeopardy.

I'll admit, about a year ago I realized the site was making money. I didn't realize how much, but I knew we were doing fine. It was then I stopped donating (yes, even as a Red I was giving money to Phil for the site) and it was then I stopped recommending people donate like I had previously. I became skeptical of the 3 or 4 time a year donation drives, when he paid hosting costs every 6 months. About that time I switched the WeeklyRelease over to Amazon links to earn myself money. It wasn't much, and I felt a bit guilty about it, but at least it was a two directional thing.

I decided at that point to legitimize my online stuff, especially when I started Co-Optimus, so I could write of trips, shipping costs and other expenses I had incurred on the site. The previous year I had spent almost $3000 on E3 alone - and I was not going to do that again without some way to offset it.

I still feel bad with the way things went down, it was sort of a chain reaction once people found out that not only I was leaving, but that James was following. I'm still really grateful for the opportunity that Evil gave me, I really just think it's sad he doesn't realize the potential that that site has/had. I had so many ideas to make it bigger, better, and more productive. But it was always - "we'll get around to it."

This is the reason I'm so excited about CoG.

[violent]

MagicPC. Greatest thing to hit the internet.

[Goronmon]

I was made a staff member because of GWJ. It was immediately after all those folks left. I had only been on the site for a few months so it didn't seem like a big deal to me.Yeah, I was actually completely surprised to learn that this almost exact same situation happened a long time ago where Evil Avatar imploded and many left to spawn a separate site.

[Doctor Setebos]

Along those lines I've seen a great disconnect with the pulse of the gaming world from him - he just didn't get it anymore.This was something I noticed with him, too. He didn't seem to even be all that interested in gaming lately. He just ran the site, and that was his connection. The reds were the ones that understood the gaming culture and the community. That's why CoG will succeed. Without that connection to the culture, Evil himself doesn't stand a chance of faking his involvement within the gaming world.

The previous year I had spent almost $3000 on E3 alone - and I was not going to do that again without some way to offset it.Whoa. Are you sure you didn't accidentally add an extra zero in there? Yikes. :eek:

This is the reason I'm so excited about CoG.As are we all. :D

[Zero]

About that time I switched the WeeklyRelease over to Amazon links to earn myself money. It wasn't much, and I felt a bit guilty about it, but at least it was a two directional thing.



Whew. I do the new release lists at my company based on your WeeklyRelease, so it's been killing me for the last couple of days that I might have been giving Evil more money by clicking on all of the links every week. Now I feel better that that money went to you instead.

[crazyD]

I donated once, back before it was a big thing on the site. I was among the first oranges. I was always a little annoyed by the constant drives, but didn't really think of how much he was making off of it. Pretty crazy stuff.

[PathMaster]

On to bigger and better things I say.

[Hellbug]

Does anyone else wonder if Evil had been more honest about the amount of money being poured into the site, and maybe had ran a few more scheduled giveaways and such, that this whole thing would have boiled over like it did? Like Bap said, none of the excess money was being used for more than basic hosting costs. Was it that Evil didn't tell the community how much the site was making, or that Evil didn't return some of that to the community in some shape or form?

I do not mind that he was making money off of the site, if only some of that money could have been returned to the community in a way.

[Goronmon]

I do not mind that he was making money off of the site, if only some of that money could have been returned to the community in a way.I think the main problem was the constant donation drives Evil would run because supposedly he was having trouble keeping up with the hosting costs. People wouldn't care if it was just some passive Donate button that sat there, but Evil gave everyone the distinct impression that lots of donations were necessary just to keep the site running.

[J Arcane]

I very much mind if he's making money off the site, when that money is acquired in a fashion labeled "donations".

If you're going to take on the mantle of charity, then it's best to fucking act like it.

If the place is to be run like a business, then run it like a bloody business, but in that case, that means a proper product should be expected, not something one can get for free anywhere on the web plus a handful of meaningless tokens. I don't "donate" to a business, I purchase a product or a service.

The way Evil ran the place was a matter of trying to eat one's cake and have it too. It's crooked and dishonest behavior, reaping the rewards as if it were a business while providing no product in return other than abusing the goodwill of the site's users.

[TheKeck]

snip
Thanks for sharing that bap.

[NoName]

I do not mind that he was making money off of the site, if only some of that money could have been returned to the community in a way.

That's the problem, the donation drives did not have the community in mind. Like a wolf in gamers clothing. Ug, just thinking about the amount I had donated makes me sick.

The entire "special purple, there can only be one" thing without telling how much was donated to get it is just a scheme to make a lot of people spend more money in competition. Sick.

[Slack3r78]

Along those lines I've seen a great disconnect with the pulse of the gaming world from him - he just didn't get it anymore.
That may be the greatest understatement yet made on this site.

I'll admit, about a year ago I realized the site was making money. I didn't realize how much, but I knew we were doing fine. It was then I stopped donating (yes, even as a Red I was giving money to Phil for the site) and it was then I stopped recommending people donate like I had previously. I became skeptical of the 3 or 4 time a year donation drives, when he paid hosting costs every 6 months.
I got to that point about six months ago, myself. The way Evil was posting donation drives with increasing frequency with the only reason given being to help pay for the site something didn't seem right to me. The huge increase in greens and pinks made it pretty clear to me that there was just no way that things could be as tight as Evil seemed to like to make it seem.

I had no idea he was keeping staff in the dark like he was, and I really had no idea he was shafting staff the way he did, though. I had assumed some of the donations would have gone to helping you guys attend the events you did at the very least. The fact that that didn't happen is more than a little upsetting.

This is the reason I'm so excited about CoG.
Me too. You've always had good ideas, bap, I look forward to seeing what you can implement given some freedom to work.

Also, this is probably a good place to chime in and say that, for me, I wouldn't see anything whatsoever wrong with getting some Google Adwords or the like up. I understand that the staff is a bit reticent to start taking donations at this point, but I don't think that means you guys should have to be funding this completely out of pocket, either.

[Bingley Joe]

The entire "special purple, there can only be one" thing without telling how much was donated to get it is just a scheme to make a lot of people spend more money in competition. Sick.

Yeah, when you put it like that it really is pretty fucking sick.. Does anyone know now how much payola it actually took?

[Zero]

The entire "special purple, there can only be one" thing without telling how much was donated to get it is just a scheme to make a lot of people spend more money in competition. Sick.

I want to know how much, but then I don't. It makes me sick thinking about how much Giga might have donated actually.

[Slack3r78]

I very much mind if he's making money off the site, when that money is acquired in a fashion labeled "donations".

If you're going to take on the mantle of charity, then it's best to fucking act like it.

If the place is to be run like a business, then run it like a bloody business, but in that case, that means a proper product should be expected, not something one can get for free anywhere on the web plus a handful of meaningless tokens. I don't "donate" to a business, I purchase a product or a service.

The way Evil ran the place was a matter of trying to eat one's cake and have it too. It's crooked and dishonest behavior, reaping the rewards as if it were a business while providing no product in return other than abusing the goodwill of the site's users.
The fact that he was abusing the trust of the community was bad enough, IMO. The fact is that Evil had very little to do with running the site anymore, and was making this money off the hard work of the staff, who was getting just about nothing in return is what I find particularly sickening. I hate seeing people used like that.

[J Arcane]

This whole thing brings to mind nothing so much as my time at Goodwill.

People pull up daily with truckloads of stuff, buy millions of dollars of merchandise from the place that Goodwill didn't pay a cent for, simply because they think, well, it's a non-profit, it must be going to a good cause, right?

When in reality all that money, all those donations, is just going into the pockets of the guys upstairs, the actual day to day operation resembles the most crooked of corporate chains, and the organization doesn't even do jackshit to help it's own regular members, let alone anyone else in the community.

And all it takes is using a few of the right words, and people continue assuming there's nothing untoward going on, don't even ask questions about what they're really supporting.

The sad thing is, I have no doubt in my mind that EvAv will bounce back from this. In a few months time, enough fresh suckers will wander in from Gametab or wherever, and before long the racket will be back in full swing all over again.

Honestly, I kind of wonder what sort of a cop he is if this is the way he behaves off-duty. If this were something done in uniform he'd be under investigation by now in any but the most corrupt police precinct.

[Lunar Blue]

Yeah, I was actually completely surprised to learn that this almost exact same situation happened a long time ago where Evil Avatar imploded and many left to spawn a separate site.

Same here. Man, those people must think we are a bunch of fucking idiots right about now :rolleyes: It would be interesting to hear more about the exodus of the past from someone over at GWJ.

[Sl1pstream]

At least the thread I created to tell you my decision didn't turn into yet another discussion of this rift.

We spent years on that site together with people who still haven't made the move over here, why shouldn't we talk about it?

If the money that wasn't needed for the hosting actually went to the people who worked on the site and could've used the money for press events and trips, I wouldn't be upset by this. The thing that bothers me is that the money went to the one person who didn't do a lot for the site in the past few years.

The fact that he tried to pull me in when every red was leaving makes me dislike him even more.

[Bingley Joe]

We spent years on that site together with people who still haven't made the move over here, why shouldn't we talk about it?

Exactly. We most definitely should talk about it. People were affected, people want to know what happened, and people want to move on. Discussing the issue openly is the only way to resolve all of that.

Hell, even modeps' original post in this thread is a discussion of it, so I find it a little odd that he came back to make a snide remark about the conversation that followed..

[Grifter]

What I don't understand is how people can claim to love EvAv(the site) so much then proceed to shit all over the two men who quite literally made it what it is today as far as game coverage, popularity and site design. Bap and Fit's are directly responsible for 90% of that community's success over the last five years. Hell, the only reason I knew about EvAv was because of an interview of Bap I heard.

Personally I think it's a mistake to play nice and sweep this under the rug for the sole reason that it will happen again. I believe that if Certus and the rest of the GWJ crew hadn't been so mature and responsible about the situation and made a bit more of a stink there is a chance it wouldn't have happened again. I think a few of the more well known and trusted former members of EvAv should do what they can to let the current colored members of EvAv know what really happened, most people think this happened because of the "magic PC", Random and schnoogs and that's not right.

Edit: One last thing, anyone who is aware of the truth and is still willing to support EvAv is not the kind of person I would want to be a part of this community.

[Slack3r78]

I think a few of the more well known and trusted former members of EvAv should do what they can to let the current colored members of EvAv know what really happened, most people think this happened because of the "magic PC", Random and schnoogs and that's not right.
It was a catalyst, but not a root cause.

[Grifter]

It was a catalyst, but not a root cause.

I know but by itself it's really not that big of a deal which I think is why a lot of us are being labeled as drama queens but when you ad it to the long list of problems and issues most important being the lack of honesty with subscribers and the blatant disrespecting of mods it paints the situation in a whole new light.

[Karmakin]

It's actually a pretty interesting case study really, or at least it would be if we weren't personally involved.

I mostly left after the Magic PC thing. Namely, I'm kind of a fringe member, but mostly part of the TF2 crew, and well. They were all going. But it's more than that.

I just think that community and authoritarian attitudes just don't mix. Most people wanted a community, a few wanted a news aggregation site, I think. You can have both, but you need to let community grow organically, and a hard hand will not do that.

And it's a kick-ass community here. And it was too depressing to watch it die.

Thank god it's not going to.

[EWolfmanD]

That's the problem, the donation drives did not have the community in mind. Like a wolf in gamers clothing. Ug, just thinking about the amount I had donated makes me sick.

Hey now, no need to go comparing us wolves to that guy.

Besides, wolves are gamers. What else would we wear? :D

[pomeroy]

Hey now, no need to go comparing us wolves to that guy.

Besides, wolves are gamers. What else would we wear? :D

http://baens-universe.com/upload/v1n4/foreverbetween/werewolf.jpg

Some weird armor stuff, apparently.

[DangerousDaze]

I know I'm going to get slated for saying this because I detect a bit of mob mentality at work but I'm going to say it anyway. Before I do so I want you to bear in mind that I've been away from the site for a good few months and have not been a party to all the recent history, including the "MagicPC" thing (WTF?) which lead up to this split. Even when I posted regularly I never had any vested interest other than enjoying the forums. I've never heard a podcast, never played a game online with any of you, etc. I've no axe to grind and I've no desire to "brown nose"; an accusation that's already been levelled on people who still post over on EvAv. Moving on...

This thread and all the bad feeling associated with it is actually based on hearsay and assumption. "Just what I heard, anyway." isn't a great indication that the accusations being made are factually correct. Even Bap and the other reds' posts, while more measured and undoubtedly made from a deeper perspective, can't tell the full story because no one really knows the income and expenditure of the Evil Avatar website. No one but EvAv himself.

From that rocky foundation over the following pages you've moved on to:

- Accepting the accusations as fact with virtually no question.
- Accusing EvAv of having complete disdain for the visitors to his site - when in fact it's just the PC owners ;)
- Widening the net to include everyone else who still posts at EvAv, treating them initially with pity and later as people not welcome to post here (this could be my first and last post though I truly hope not).
- Trashing EvAv's writing ability. I've not read any of his stuff so I can't comment but as an aspiring author myself I admire him for getting published. It's a bit low to knock that imo.
- Insinuations that he could be a crooked cop and, even better, so could his colleagues (that one was a bit of a stretch)

I'm a green over there which means I've donated $100 or more, and in fact it's considerably more, but I never donated a cent that I would even remotely miss. As a UK poster I was even excluded from all the competitions but I didn't care because I didn't invest anything worthy of getting wound up over - anyone who donates money they really care about to an internet forum really needs to look at their finances a bit more closely. We all got recognition by virtue of our colours. We all took the piss out of the yellows.

Over on EvAv I see people still discussing games and getting on with it, but when I finally follow the CoG references and find a discussion like this it makes me not want to visit.

Putting aside all the hatred you've probably built up over the past few paragraphs, do you honestly think that visitors to CoG reading this thread will get a good opinion of the site? The flip-side is that we now have the potential for a bunch more lively and energetic gaming sites to visit - why can't we just concentrate on that?

Apologies for the dreaded Wall of Text.

[Xerxes]

So much to re-invest in the community could have been done. Like bap said, he didn't get it anymore.

[Hotcod]

The thing is that i don't have problems with people making money from a site if running the site is cutting in to there ability to make money in real life. When say some one has to give up there jobs to work on something full time and need donations and the like to try and keep there heads above water while there trying to build the site... which is why i would never have minded money going directly to baps or any one who was going out of there way and spending there own money to make content for the site... as it is evil dose nothing and is seemingly soaking up donations and ad money from the site for doing nothing while acting like his entitled and better than every one else... nice work if you can get it....

[Deadend]

Wow, that was insightful, I thought it was all about how Evil basically turned the forums to shit with his heavy-handed "moderating". But him taking money to pay for his haircuts instead of the site or helping to pay for airfare or hotelrooms for having people on the ground at E3/PAX? That is really dick of him.

[Deadend]

Apologies for the dreaded Wall of Text.

Because there are lots of people asking "huh? What is all this about?" rest of the site is happy go lucky and reads like EvAv used to, but with lighter colors.

[Ghostbear]

Wall of Text.
Well now. :) This only happened a few days ago, so of course the people affect are going to want to talk about it, its only natural. Personally I think this thread has remained calm and has not devolved into any arguments. How do you know how much evidence some of us have seen?
You say we jumped in on this without evidence, but then say "people may not want to see this thread" wouldn't a posting of the "proof" do the same thing?
If would make the situation much more inflammatory. Can't have it both ways :) That said, welcome to the site.

[pomeroy]

- Trashing EvAv's writing ability. I've not read any of his stuff so I can't comment but as an aspiring author myself I admire him for getting published. It's a bit low to knock that imo.

I would agree that that's a bit low as well.


Putting aside all the hatred you've probably built up over the past few paragraphs, do you honestly think that visitors to CoG reading this thread will get a good opinion of the site? The flip-side is that we now have the potential for a bunch more lively and energetic gaming sites to visit - why can't we just concentrate on that?
Apologies for the dreaded Wall of Text.

I think (and hope) that this will die down in a few days. People are pissed now, sure, but I doubt it will go on much longer. I do agree that it's not the best attitude to have, but considering how short of a time has passed, it's not surprising that this is a focus right now.

[Ondo]

Exactly. We most definitely should talk about it.
Yeah, but it'd be better in an appropriately named thread, where it could be found by people looking for it, rather than in modeps's thread.

[Goronmon]

Over on EvAv I see people still discussing games and getting on with it, but when I finally follow the CoG references and find a discussion like this it makes me not want to visit.Give me a break. Most of your examples are from a handful of people on the site. Most are not over-reacting with the "crooked cop" and disparaging comments about the people sticking around EvAv. But I'm sure that perspective fits better if you are trying to convince yourself not to come here. No one is forcing you to come here, you are free to stick with EvAv, just don't exaggerate all this animosity to ease your own conscience.

[Ghost Rider]

Because there are lots of people asking "huh? What is all this about?" rest of the site is happy go lucky and reads like EvAv used to, but with lighter colors.

Exactly. It's quite a big thing considering a whole new website has been created because of it so I don't see the problem with a few threads related to it.

I've found the whole site to have a really good vibe about it, like I said before, much better than any other forum I've been a member of. So it's a winner for me. :cool:

[Grifter]

First of all this is just one thread, there are hundreds more here on gaming, movies, comics, politics etc..etc... so if you're going to base your opinion of this site on one thread maybe you don't belong here in the first place.

Second, we trust Bap and we trust Fits and we trust the guys from IGC they have never done anything to demean that trust or given us a reason not to. Evil on the other hand by public actions alone is one shady character.

Third, this is not the first time this has happened, that alone should set off a few warning bells.

Fourth, you may like to throw away money, that's your deal, but there are plenty of us who don't and we donated to EvAv because we cared about the community and we wanted to help support Bap and Fit's in the work they were doing. I'm sure there are plenty of people who if they knew evil was lining his pockets with "donations" they would not have given. I also suggest not questioning someone elses financial responsibility when you are willing to blow over $100 just to feel superior to some random yellow, which IMO says a lot about your character.

Fifth, very few people here give a shit if people visit EvAv or not but a lot of people do think that if others are going to be "donating" money to EvAv the website they should be aware of where that money is really going. If Evil says "hey, I'm having a donation drive so I can buy my self something nice" and people choose to give I'm cool with that but when I give my money under the pretense of site donations thinking that the cash will actually be used to not only help keep the site running but improve it as well and I find out it's not that pisses me off and I'm sure others feel the same way.

If people want to talk shit about some one they don't like so be it, it happens plenty over on EvAv and I don't see you throwing a fit about that. Look at all the posts evil made about certain members here, the man you're defending doesn't seem to have a problem throwing around insults.

[DangerousDaze]

If people want to talk shit about some one they don't like so be it, it happens plenty over on EvAv and I don't see you throwing a fit about that. Look at all the posts evil made about certain members here, the man you're defending doesn't seem to have a problem throwing around insults.

I've never been about attacking anyone (except Kamalot once and I apologised for that) and I'm certainly not throwing any fits - yellow bashing has always been de rigeur over there and somewhat of an in-joke, not to be taken seriously. I'm just saying that it's not proven that he's been lining his pockets and I'm not going to throw a rope over a tree until it is.

[King3567]

Ever since I joined EvAv, he always came off as a complete asshole to me. I remember one time he posted in a politics thread and said he was fine with either of the candidates winning because if Obama wins, he'll be assassinated and if McCain wins, we'll be off to greener pastures. I lol'd.

MagicPCs 4 lyfe!

[Sl1pstream]

I've never been about attacking anyone (except Kamalot once and I apologised for that) and I'm certainly not throwing any fits - yellow bashing has always been de rigeur over there and somewhat of an in-joke, not to be taken seriously. I'm just saying that it's not proven that he's been lining his pockets and I'm not going to throw a rope over a tree until it is.

Even if he admitted it?

[The Iron Weasel]

That's really, really fucked up. I'm done with the site. We need to start a CoG group on steam and get some TF2 a-going!

[DangerousDaze]

Even if he admitted it?

Well that would end the discussion instantly and I'll be happy to hold my hands up if all this turns out to be true.

[mister slim]

Regardless of the numbers involved with whatever happened and whatever each side claims, the truth is never going to be completely told. It's not hard to figure out a guestimated amount of revenue that came from donations simply by adding up colors of people.

My estimate of the revenue, for the lazy:
$20,000 to $40,000. Over the last 3-5 years. Subscription revenue only.

[n3rdXcore]

That's really, really fucked up. I'm done with the site. We need to start a CoG group on steam and get some TF2 a-going!

Behold! A CoG Steam group! (http://www.colonyofgamers.com/cogforums/showthread.php?t=98)

[Ghost Rider]

I'm just saying that it's not proven that he's been lining his pockets and I'm not going to throw a rope over a tree until it is.
That's absolutely fine, after all, opinions make the world go round.

However alot of people don't need things to be certifiably proven to make a choice, especially if they trust the people who have given their take on events.

Last thing though, if that's all you were saying, did the post have to be that long? :eek:

[DangerousDaze]

Last thing though, if that's all you were saying, did the post have to be that long? :eek:

Yeah, sorry about that. It had been kinda building up. :(

[J Arcane]

Well that would end the discussion instantly and I'll be happy to hold my hands up if all this turns out to be true.
Dude, just in the time I posted to the site, he admitted it over and over again, the user base was just too naive to take it as anything other than a joke.

I just don't get this. How can someone so willfully ignore his behavior for so very long? He's the biggest goddamn troll on the website, he insults and belittles everyone he has any contact with on the forums, is openly hostile to certain types of gamers, bans them for disagreeing, gleefully censors or edits their posts to say shit they didn't even say, then lies through his teeth about what really happened.

It's been plainly obvious to me for a very, very long time what kind of a man he was, and I'm still staggered when it's not plainly obvious to anyone else. The only reason I posted there as long as I did was because 1) there were enough other posters to make his offensive behavior tolerable, and 2) because someone kept sponsoring me for orangeness and I felt guilty leaving after they'd spent money on me like that.

I'm just stunned by what kind of mentality it must take to put up with to continue to put up with that shit after everything that's gone on there, and further still to just keep throwing money at someone like that to boot.

[Sandman]

- Trashing EvAv's writing ability. I've not read any of his stuff so I can't comment but as an aspiring author myself I admire him for getting published. It's a bit low to knock that imo.

I stand by my statement about that story. I don't have any proof for this but I'm almost certain that it wasn't just his writing skills that got him published. Actually I do remember quite a few threads about him getting rejected. Permuted Press gets tons of free advertising through EvAv, I'm sure that had something to do with it.

[DangerousDaze]

When has he ever been anything other than terse and confrontational though? Isn't that just his, er, *sigh* (Idiom?) Idiom!

[Zonkuya]

At least the thread I created to tell you my decision didn't turn into yet another discussion of this rift.

How dare we turn the thread you created in the CoG forum into a discussion of some of the more revealing factors behind why we came here in the first place!

The enlightenment you'd have gained in this thread WILL NOT STAND! "This rift" is ALL our fault, dagnabit! :rolleyes:

[Bingley Joe]

I'm just saying that it's not proven that he's been lining his pockets and I'm not going to throw a rope over a tree until it is.

Of course it's always wise to 'question the source', but can you honestly say - given everything that's happened in the past, and the myriad actions of the various personalities involved - that it's terribly difficult to believe the version of events that's been posted here by those people closest to it? Namely, Fox, bap, and fits?

Can you honestly say that you entertain the possibility that they've banded together for some selfish reason of their own, and ditched a site they worked so hard on in such a dramatic fashion simply because they could? And that they then decided to slander Evil in their new forum just for kicks?

You say there's a lack of evidence to support their claim, but at the same time, is there really a reason to believe they've made it all up? Does something about their demonstrated characters lead you to that conclusion?

Seriously, DangerousDaze, I can understand and respect your natural tendency to be skeptical, but I just don't think it's very well founded in this instance.

[TurboKinny]

Some of you asked why I no longer wanted to be pink- this is why. I have to say, I hope you guys make some money off of this site. Truly I do. Because I know you will use it in a positive way that benefits the community (even if it's just so you can schmooze with devs at cons!)

[wyeast]

I'll chime in from a slightly different perspective.

I don't begrudge him for making money off the site. It's his site, and if money arises from it, so be it. Whether it's subscriptions or donations or what have you. Meh.

I moderate for a message board, one that is roughly twice the size of EvAv. More than once it's been bandied about that the owner makes a decent amount of coin off ad revenue. If true, I say good for him. I've never asked him, because frankly it's not my bother, and I'm sure a decent chunk of cash has been outlayed with constantly upping the horsepower to run the site.

By the same token, I say if Phil makes a decent living off EvAv, good for him as well.

But and this is a big butt ;) - the primary difference (to me) is in the financial outlay of the other staffers. On that other board, the moderators work hard, but we don't dole out any of our own cash for prizes, press junkets, etc. All we give is time. Same as if we were simply users reading the board like we always had. We have a mutual understanding that there is no profit sharing or 401k, so we roll with it.

But all this time I had always sort of assumed that the prizes and stuff at EA were coming out of the common kitty, rather than bap's or bootsy's personal pockets. I knew all the money couldn't have been going to hosting, so I figured it was just sort of unspoken that at least a portion of the remainder was funding all the other stuff. Now, it's one thing if these guys have done all these things of their own volition with no promise of reimbursement...

But if this stuff was being done at his behest, or if there was promise of reimbursement that never came - that's a whole 'nother thing entirely. One that I find sadly disappointing, if true.

But that's neither here nor there. The bottom line is I joined EvAv and became an orange largely because of the community (well, that and because I was @#$%@$ shanghai'd into it and felt compelled to continue) :D and that's why I'm here now, because of the same people I call my friends.

But mainly, I wanted to say that for me it's not about whether or not Evil made money off the site. It's about whether or not the reds got rooked into propping up the site on their own nickel at the same time.

[chameleo]

I actually stopped posting at EvAv b/c i refused to renew my donation. A few people who i knew through the EvAv WoW guild asked me why i didn't continue to donate...? They looked at me like a bit of an outsider; an imposter...

I did not feel very welcome at EvAv after I stopped donating and therefore stopped posting... People donate all year around, not only during the drives; and we never see how much is donated and how much goes to whom. I want to see where my money goes, so i didn't continue donating. simple as that. I'm not rich, I don't even have a single full-time job....

I can spare the $10 easily, but only spend money where I see results.

[Troggles]

Big o' block of text

I have no qualms with webmasters generating revenue from ads. I do have a major problem with webmasters who accept donations and have donation drives for the sake of improving the site and then pocketing some of it. Even a dollar of it. If you donated to a cancer research charity and the leader suddenly had some nice new toys but never told any of his own staffers where donation money went to, wouldn't you be suspicious as well?

[BlackPete]

Fits (sorry I can't think of you as JAYoung!) and baps -- keep one thing in mind:

The reason people donated to EvAv was because they wanted to donate to show their support and appreciation for YOU (and all the other hardworking mods). Whether the money actually got to you guys or not is irrelevant -- the donations were a way to show what people thought of the kick-ass job YOU guys were doing.

You should never feel bad about that, and you should never feel like you conned anyone.

[pomeroy]

Fits (sorry I can't think of you as JAYoung!) and baps -- keep one thing in mind:

The reason people donated to EvAv was because they wanted to donate to show their support and appreciation for YOU (and all the other hardworking mods). Whether the money actually got to you guys or not is irrelevant -- the donations were a way to show what people thought of the kick-ass job YOU guys were doing.

You should never feel bad about that, and you should never feel like you conned anyone.

Well said, and I agree 100%.

[boratika]

Not to belittle anyone, but it's the tip of the frustration iceberg for me personally. I feel like I was conned, and in doing so I conned the community. It makes me sick to my stomach that I was somehow complicit in the people donating what they did.
Uh...what the others said. I would have quoted for truth them, but I forgot the quoting part...so I guess this is a...

FOR TRUTH!

(or maybe "for great justice!" I just found my copy of Zero Wing;))
Ever since I joined EvAv, he always came off as a complete asshole to me. I remember one time he posted in a politics thread and said he was fine with either of the candidates winning because if Obama wins, he'll be assassinated and if McCain wins, we'll be off to greener pastures. I lol'd.

MagicPCs 4 lyfe!
There was also the time where he where he was like "this is what's going to happen if we have another Democrat in the white house" and then posted a picture of the WTC buildings burning. Because I guess the main cause of that was dem being president at the time. It was an interesting chain of logic.
Some of you asked why I no longer wanted to be pink- this is why. I have to say, I hope you guys make some money off of this site. Truly I do. Because I know you will use it in a positive way that benefits the community (even if it's just so you can schmooze with devs at cons!)Oh don't worry, they'll get theirs in due time. Even if it's against their will (http://www.colonyofgamers.com/cogforums/showthread.php?t=395) *villainous laughter*

[pseudopseudo]

\There was also the time where he where he was like "this is what's going to happen if we have another Democrat in the white house" and then posted a picture of the WTC buildings burning. Because I guess the main cause of that was dem being president at the time. It was an interesting chain of logic.

I remember that incident pretty clearly. It was then that I realized that the man was clearly at least a little unstable.

[Crowe]

Jesus, I actually donated. It may not have been much, but I was far from the only one. That is all kinds of wrong.

[Karmakin]

What wyeast said.

Although I'll take it a step further. If bap, fits, agtfox, etc. for no reason whatsoever decided to open their own site...lets just say they didn't like the colors. I'd wager that most of us would make our way over nonetheless.

Why? Because a good community requires good community leaders. And frankly, those (you) guys are great at it. All the other reasons, is basically just gravy.

[Slack3r78]

I remember that incident pretty clearly. It was then that I realized that the man was clearly at least a little unstable.
Old news.

If you've ever seen Evil participate in any thread involving civil liberties, that was beyond clear. The fact that this man is an LEO always made that a little unsettling for me.

It occurred to me earlier this week that my increased participation at EvAv pretty much occurred inline with Evil participating less. I'd lurked for years, but was so turned off by some of the things Evil said that it disinclined me from joining in myself. I guess I shouldn't have been surprised that the inverse turned out to be true.

EDIT:

I guess I should throw in the disclaimer that this end of things isn't anything new for me as a result of recent events. I've just kept it to myself in the past because A. Evil kept his own behavior generally in-line most of the time and B. I didn't think it was right to speak ill of somebody who, for better or worse, was providing the forum for our community. I really feel no compunction to continue doing so given he's turned out to be completely dishonest, as well.

[rein]

I've tried to avoid getting caught up in the drama but I am a little unhappy with the donation issue. I'm not sure how much I donated to EvilAvatar.com, I think it was more than 50 but less than 100. Either way, doesn't matter. I'm not in the least upset that Evil made some money off of the site. I assumed he did. What does bother me is I assumed Admins made a meager amount as well to offset the time and effort they put into the site. To say the least, I am disappointed to find out not only did they not receive any compensation for their work in making EvAv what it was, they actually were investing their own money. I don't hold any of the mods or admins that left accountable but I do wish someone had come forward a little sooner.

That being said, I am done with the EvAv site. I was going to split time but to be honest, the group I associate with that community came here.

[BlackPete]

There was also the time where he where he was like "this is what's going to happen if we have another Democrat in the white house" and then posted a picture of the WTC buildings burning. Because I guess the main cause of that was dem being president at the time. It was an interesting chain of logic.

I remember that. He posted that in response to something I said... I don't even remember what the thread was about but that reply was so far over the top that my jaw actually dropped and didn't know how to respond... so I didn't.

But yes... that was a defining moment for me as well that changed my opinion of the guy.

I still post on the P&R forums there from time to time, but I am definitely dialing it back, and I can see myself leaving for good once a similar forum opens up here. :D Oh yes it WILL happen! :D

[Slack3r78]

I still post on the P&R forums there from time to time, but I am definitely dialing it back, and I can see myself leaving for good once a similar forum opens up here. :D Oh yes it WILL happen! :D
Until that happens...

http://www.playitreviewit.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=13

[fitbabits]

I know I'm going to get slated for saying this because I detect a bit of mob mentality at work but I'm going to say it anyway. Before I do so I want you to bear in mind that I've been away from the site for a good few months and have not been a party to all the recent history, including the "MagicPC" thing (WTF?) which lead up to this split. Even when I posted regularly I never had any vested interest other than enjoying the forums. I've never heard a podcast, never played a game online with any of you, etc. I've no axe to grind and I've no desire to "brown nose"; an accusation that's already been levelled on people who still post over on EvAv. Moving on...

This thread and all the bad feeling associated with it is actually based on hearsay and assumption. "Just what I heard, anyway." isn't a great indication that the accusations being made are factually correct. Even Bap and the other reds' posts, while more measured and undoubtedly made from a deeper perspective, can't tell the full story because no one really knows the income and expenditure of the Evil Avatar website. No one but EvAv himself.

From that rocky foundation over the following pages you've moved on to:

- Accepting the accusations as fact with virtually no question.
- Accusing EvAv of having complete disdain for the visitors to his site - when in fact it's just the PC owners ;)
- Widening the net to include everyone else who still posts at EvAv, treating them initially with pity and later as people not welcome to post here (this could be my first and last post though I truly hope not).
- Trashing EvAv's writing ability. I've not read any of his stuff so I can't comment but as an aspiring author myself I admire him for getting published. It's a bit low to knock that imo.
- Insinuations that he could be a crooked cop and, even better, so could his colleagues (that one was a bit of a stretch)

I'm a green over there which means I've donated $100 or more, and in fact it's considerably more, but I never donated a cent that I would even remotely miss. As a UK poster I was even excluded from all the competitions but I didn't care because I didn't invest anything worthy of getting wound up over - anyone who donates money they really care about to an internet forum really needs to look at their finances a bit more closely. We all got recognition by virtue of our colours. We all took the piss out of the yellows.

Over on EvAv I see people still discussing games and getting on with it, but when I finally follow the CoG references and find a discussion like this it makes me not want to visit.

Putting aside all the hatred you've probably built up over the past few paragraphs, do you honestly think that visitors to CoG reading this thread will get a good opinion of the site? The flip-side is that we now have the potential for a bunch more lively and energetic gaming sites to visit - why can't we just concentrate on that?

Apologies for the dreaded Wall of Text.
Hey!

First of all, a few facts that Evil himself can refute if he likes (note - I say facts because I have the information to support my claims):

Personal 'investment' at EvAv - greater than $10,000
Return from EvAv - $0

Let it be clear, I didn't once ask for anything from Phil (Evil) in return for the work I did at the site. When I was made a red, it was (presumably) because he thought I was doing something worthwhile for the site.

Late last year, Phil managed to help Nick purchase a PS3 and promised he would do the same for me "when the site had enough money".

Here's something that simply sticks in my nest - time and time again Phil would email me and Nick and hit us with a variant of the following line, 'I wish I could compensate you guys what you're worth, but the site is struggling - maybe some day'. That was all well and good until I discovered that on donations alone EvAv was doing very, very well. Who's to say how the donations were being spent, but it's clear that they were not being reinvested.

Which brings me to how we ended up here. I decided to calculate the donations to the site and ask Phil how we should reinvest the money. It was a simple and legitimate questions. Phil's response was off the charts - the business side of the site was none of my business, the site was really struggling, etc. I emailed him back and made it clear that he really needed to be transparent on how donations were being used. As someone who had donated in the past, I had a right to know. He didn't reply to that and instead stripped me of my admin privileges at EvAv.

People can believe what they want, and they will do so, but here's where we are:

The money in donations alone was vastly in excess of what was needed to run the site.

Phil made it clear there would NEVER be any accountability on his part for how the donations were being used.

The bottom line is nobody but Phil knows how the donations are being spent, but the fact that he's unwilling to divulge naturally leads to a simple, and damning, conclusion.

This may come off as sounding really cheesy, but whatever...

I left EvAv because I cared greatly about the community and couldn't sit idly watch it being used and abused.

[dotbomb]

I emailed him back and made it clear that he really needed to be transparent on how donations were being used. As someone who had donated in the past, I had a right to know.

You also have a right to know before you donate! I know everyone will be more cautious in the future with their money.

I'll donate in a heartbeat if transparency is set up from day 1... hint hint.

[Slack3r78]

The money in donations alone was vastly in excess of what was needed to run the site.
http://evilavatar.com/forums/showgroups.php

There are in excess of 100 pink/green subscribers alone.

Even a worst case scenario requiring a dedicated box and a fair amount of bandwidth, hosting shouldn't be costing more than a few hundred dollars per month.

The math seems pretty simple, IMO.

[pseudopseudo]

You also have a right to know before you donate! I know everyone will be more cautious in the future with their money.

I'll donate in a heartbeat if transparency is set up from day 1... hint hint.

It's kind of funny - since the mass exodus, even though most people know the reason for the split, Evil still sticks to his guns.

In this thread (http://evilavatar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=65114), someone asks for transparency during the next "donation drive". Evil's response? "It's something I'll consider."

[fitbabits]

It's kind of funny - since the mass exodus, even though most people know the reason for the split, Evil still sticks to his guns.

In this thread (http://evilavatar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=65114), someone asks for transparency during the next "donation drive". Evil's response? "It's something I'll consider."

If EvAv is to survive and grow going forward, Phil needs to appreciate three things:

1. Accountability
2. Transparency
3. Honesty

[TheKeck]

If EvAv is to survive and grow going forward, Phil needs to appreciate three things:

1. Accountability
2. Transparency
3. Honesty
Or, things will slowly pick up and there will be a whole new crowd after time ala Gamers with Jobs. Kinda weird to think about. :(

[GunnyMo]

This might be a bit of a case of pooping in a thread, but... I just can't see how anyone can stay over there considering what the man did with donation money, let alone enabling that behavior by helping the site.

I don't know what specifically you are talking of, but Phil helped me out with some of that donation money (as did as many of the amazing people here and there) so I will be going back and forth between EvAv and here. Nevermind the fact that I missed out on the whole implosion so it hasn't affected me.

I like both sites. :D

[violent]

Or, things will slowly pick up and there will be a whole new crowd after time ala Gamers with Jobs. Kinda weird to think about. :(

This is what I'm guessing will happen. There are still plenty of readers on that site, it's just the majority of the big players that left. Those slots will be refilled. Therefore, I see such dwelling in the past to be a losing race unless some actual legal action was being considered. If that's not the case then we're all best off letting it go and playing some motherfucking vidyuh-games.

[Maskatron]

I remember that incident pretty clearly. It was then that I realized that the man was clearly at least a little unstable.

And a troll. Of his own site, of which he wasn't even the main contributor anymore.

I definitely won't miss his profound political commentary (Obama is a Mooslem, yuck yuck!).

[Lutheran]

I don't know what specifically you are talking of, but Phil helped me out with some of that donation money (as did as many of the amazing people here and there) so I will be going back and forth between EvAv and here. Nevermind the fact that I missed out on the whole implosion so it hasn't affected me.

I like both sites. :D


Good post and I agree completely. I have no doubt in my mind if I was in a bind and needed some money ( impossible lol ) that Phil would reach out and give me some cash to tide me over knowing I am good for it. I pm with the guy a lot and he seems like a decent guy, I think some of his negative forum posts that people here are mentioning are done with the intention of sparking some controversy. He doesn't seem like a bad dude at all. I would be shocked if Bap really thought Phil was a bad person. I think in the future he will end up being transparent with the donations.

I don't blame the 2 main reds ( Nick and Fits ) from moving on though , it was probably time to branch out anyway as your both good enough to run your own sites and this is making Phil become a lot more active on his own site like he was in the older days. I think he had gotten a little too comfortable with such capable guys running the site that he sort of moved away from being involved in it for the most part. I am liking both sites to be honest.

Let me edit that last line with both sites including all the sites in this network , all are brilliant and entertaining.

[Widgetcraft]

If EvAv is to survive and grow going forward, Phil needs to appreciate three things:

1. Accountability
2. Transparency
3. Honesty

So you're the guy who stole the list of things I want from the American government... I'm on to you.

[DangerousDaze]

Hey!

Hey yourself! Thanks for taking the time to reply, and so reasonably. While I still can't engage in the tar and feathering (perhaps because I was never close enough to care that much) I think it would be wise to refrain from any further donations, at least until the process is made completely transparent.

[Inspector Fowler]

This seems like common sense to me. Before I came to EvAv, I was at a site that did tactical gaming. They were great! Good servers, great rules, etc.

When they needed money, you could always ask them why and how much. I learned some pretty interesting stuff - they were running dedicated ranked BF2 servers to the tune of $512 each every month. And this was all their own money, between a pool of owners...but obviously, they needed help.

At first they balked a little bit about giving out concrete numbers, because I think they wanted the focus to be on gaming and a fun community. But when they finally clued us in how much it was costing for us to play there (along with nearly 24/7 admin support, of which I was one), we all went right along with it. They eventually started selling site merchandise to support the cause, which was cool too.

I guess my point would be that I don't care if somebody is making money off a site. I just want them to be honest with the actual costs. If a "free but please help us" site isn't willing to be as transparent as, say, a not-for-profit charity, don't give them your cash. I've learned my lesson, as have some others.

No regrets, though. Onward and upward.

[Whunpo]

So let me say this before I post the next part: I'm just asking a question about finances. Not suggesting anything. I want to know how this whole thing works.

Does Evil pay taxes on the donations? From my understanding, if Evil Avatar is a non-profit website, the donations he gets do not need to be taxed. But if he decides that he wants some of that money, doesn't it need to be taxed?

[wyeast]

I highly doubt that EvAv is a non-profit organization. It's not really a charity per se. At best it's just flying under the table rather than having an actual non-profit tax status.

[VerseD]

If EvAv is to survive and grow going forward, Phil needs to appreciate three things:

1. Accountability
2. Transparency
3. Honesty

I agree, but doubt he'll actually pick up on those things. During this whole transition Phil's just said, "Good riddance," and squelched any attempt to ask or explain what's going on.

The responsible thing for Phil to do would be to come out and say what happened and why there was a disagreement. Actually that would be in his best interest, because right now his site and this one are riddled with the hearsay that DangerousDaze mentioned.

It's really getting out of control, and nobody without subscriber status has any idea that there's been a major shift in community leadership.

[Maskatron]

nobody without subscriber status has any idea that there's been a major shift in community leadership.

If they're regular readers of the site there's no doubt in my mind they would notice.

[Harv]

Ha, I just came back to EA after a few weeks off and found this whole thing going on.

This has all happened before and will happen again. When I worked with Phil on the EA site around 1999 or so he was just as touchy about being shown up on his site as he is now.

Before I came on to do reviews and some news he had a guy named Dave Long working on the site doing commentary and when Dave wrote something that contradicted one of Phil's Pure Evil posts Phil essentially got rid of him. Dave came back a few times to post because he was really pissed at Phil (and rightfully so to some degree) and created his own site to post his side of things. In the end it was probably better for Dave because he got work doing reviews and what not for actual magazines and larger review sites.

At the time I worked with him I supported Phil in what he was doing because he had been good to me and honestly I still have no problem with him overall, but that's because I don't and never have had much invested in anything to do with the EA site. I got some free games and free hardware out of it, but I never put a lot of money into the site. I did put a lot of time into doing reviews and news and what not, but not a lot of actual cash outlay (at the time I really had very little money).

Phil had a monster feud a long time ago with a guy named Wumpus who did a site called Gamebasement. That guy now has a very successful blog at codinghorror.com.

This is just essentially how Phil works. He never wants to be contradicted about what he is doing on the EA site and he will ban people who go about showing him up. He makes it kind of easy for people to do that though by posting in a stream of consciousness fashion in his Pure Evil posts. Those are often quite inflammatory and that would probably be fine if Phil didn't expect people to agree with what he posts in those.

I used to post as Data back the late 90s on EA for reference.

[Slack3r78]

Phil had a monster feud a long time ago with a guy named Wumpus who did a site called Gamebasement. That guy now has a very successful blog at codinghorror.com.
That's pretty interesting, actually. I don't read codinghorror regularly, but I've always been impressed by the content I've seen there.

[NoName]

Wall of interesting text goes *snip*

Thanks for that information Harv, that was really interesting. For someone like me who has only been around for a few years, it's sort of weird to see the exact same thing has been happening since EvAv was in it's early days.

And so things will probably continue as always over at EvAv with new people showing up and donating once again.

Oh well, I'm better off not thinking about it. I happily have a great new home now.

[Harv]

That's pretty interesting, actually. I don't read codinghorror regularly, but I've always been impressed by the content I've seen there.

The guy can write and he posts controversial topics that get people talking. He posted in the same fashion when replying to Phil on EA back in the day and that pretty much got him banned for life.

I'd say in general that Phil has been pretty consistent overall throughout the years, he hasn't really changed much. Anyone who thinks he will is probably fooling themselves.

He keeps the financials of the site close to the vest and doesn't reveal much in the way of details. For most of the time I was there he indicated that the site did not pay for itself and considering that he was hosting with that company for a while who did all the backend work supporting it that was likely true.

Now that site hosting and software are freely available and hosting/bandwidth is dirt cheap I'm sure the costs to run the place have come down quite a bit. I'd venture to say that it definitely makes money at this point, but how much is really anyone's guess.

Thanks for that information Harv, that was really interesting. For someone like me who has only been around for a few years, it's sort of weird to see the exact same thing has been happening since EvAv was in it's early days.

And so things will probably continue as always over at EvAv with new people showing up and donating once again.

Oh well, I'm better off not thinking about it. I happily have a great new home now.

Well, to be fair he really didn't take donations or solicit for money from visitors back in the day so you could say there was a bit more leeway for him banning people. He was the driving force of the site for many years and posted most everything that went on there.

[Elrik Murder]

If they're regular readers of the site there's no doubt in my mind they would notice.

I noticed! Around a week and a half ago! I started asking myself where everybody went? Then I dug a little (work/school so I'm a little slow) and found subtle hints. Then I saw Baps letter last week. Suddenly, I noticed posters I like slowly disappear. Like a migration really. Fascinating I thought! What could have happened that I missed? Strange too, I never noticed so many yellows.

Then, my go to guy for RB DLC said his farewells. By this time I got a little irritated. Baps farewell was odd to me. So I really began to dig. Found out fits and Agt Fox left. Hmmm... Then I make a statement in the RB thread. "What's going on!?!" My man, anakin876 PMs me and gives me the skinny.

Skeptical, in light of crazy rumors, and stressed for time I put my investigation on the back burner. A few days later I register here after viewing the community. Now, I find this thread thanks to ani again.

Wow! I would like to apologize to fits and bap. I had no idea. You guys have seriously done great work. You turned my like of the site into somewhat of an obsession. (Thanks again for Ninja Gaiden II bap!!!:D I'll never forget that!) I'm not as emotionally attached (as double D so eloquently put it) but I feel like a member of the community. So while I can't say I house any personal hostilities I do find great frustration with the way you guys were disrespected. That's ridiculous and sickening!

Therefore, I think I would rather spend my time here to support the guys/community I enjoyed. However, I will remain a member of EvAv, if only to maintain the friendships I have there. I'm on the fence about renewing any subscription however (likely not happening). Sorry for the wall of text, but I just wanted to share my frustration with the matter and say that I support you guys. Let me know what I can do to help.

Also, what happened to GigaFuzz? Fun Fact: Johan is back in the EvAv fold. Scratch that! He's here too!

[Rogue_hunter]

Also, what happened to GigaFuzz? Fun Fact: Johan is back in the EvAv fold.

GigaFuzz is here, as is Johan.

Welcome!

[bapenguin]

Ha, I just came back to EA after a few weeks off and found this whole thing going on.

This has all happened before and will happen again. When I worked with Phil on the EA site around 1999 or so he was just as touchy about being shown up on his site as he is now.

Before I came on to do reviews and some news he had a guy named Dave Long working on the site doing commentary and when Dave wrote something that contradicted one of Phil's Pure Evil posts Phil essentially got rid of him. Dave came back a few times to post because he was really pissed at Phil (and rightfully so to some degree) and created his own site to post his side of things. In the end it was probably better for Dave because he got work doing reviews and what not for actual magazines and larger review sites.

At the time I worked with him I supported Phil in what he was doing because he had been good to me and honestly I still have no problem with him overall, but that's because I don't and never have had much invested in anything to do with the EA site. I got some free games and free hardware out of it, but I never put a lot of money into the site. I did put a lot of time into doing reviews and news and what not, but not a lot of actual cash outlay (at the time I really had very little money).

Phil had a monster feud a long time ago with a guy named Wumpus who did a site called Gamebasement. That guy now has a very successful blog at codinghorror.com.

This is just essentially how Phil works. He never wants to be contradicted about what he is doing on the EA site and he will ban people who go about showing him up. He makes it kind of easy for people to do that though by posting in a stream of consciousness fashion in his Pure Evil posts. Those are often quite inflammatory and that would probably be fine if Phil didn't expect people to agree with what he posts in those.

I used to post as Data back the late 90s on EA for reference.

I remember you!

Thanks for the info. What it comes down to for me is, I just wish Phil would respect gaming.

I don't think he does. After meeting so many developers and publishers and feeling like I have somewhat of a pulse on certain areas of the industry I just don't think he "gets gaming" or gets the industry anymore. And perhaps, he never really did.

[Elrik Murder]

GigaFuzz is here, as is Johan.

Welcome!

Ha! I feel silly getting excited finding members from EvAv already registered here. It's like the best of... or the Greatest Hits of the gaming community.

[Gerbs]

I just sat and read all 173 posts in this topic. Thanks to everyone for inputting your thoughts on the whole affair, before I wasn't clear on everything, although I guess I am still not. Modeps I hope you are still following this thread and you can contribute to this site as well as EvAv.

[rinichanraar]

This is kind of random, but I never noticed it before. Did Evil Avatar's In-House Content area on the front page always say, "bapenguin fires up his Magic PC and plays a preview build of this upcoming role-playing game." under the Sacred 2 preview?

Sorry to bring up that whole thing again, but I'm just curious about it because I never noticed it this entire time.

[Lutheran]

I think it always did say that , and Bap why do you say that Phil doesn't respect gaming? What exactly does that mean?

[Spacetronaut]

This is kind of random, but I never noticed it before. Did Evil Avatar's In-House Content area on the front page always say, "bapenguin fires up his Magic PC and plays a preview build of this upcoming role-playing game." under the Sacred 2 preview?

Sorry to bring up that whole thing again, but I'm just curious about it because I never noticed it this entire time.

I noticed that today too and found it amusing considering.

[AgtFox]

This is kind of random, but I never noticed it before. Did Evil Avatar's In-House Content area on the front page always say, "bapenguin fires up his Magic PC and plays a preview build of this upcoming role-playing game." under the Sacred 2 preview?

Sorry to bring up that whole thing again, but I'm just curious about it because I never noticed it this entire time.
Yes, it said that below the Sacred 2 preview ever since it went up. bap and I used to do the top nav area at EvAv, by that point the access to the backend had the password changed so neither of us could get in there to change it.

[fitbabits]

I don't think he does. After meeting so many developers and publishers and feeling like I have somewhat of a pulse on certain areas of the industry I just don't think he "gets gaming" or gets the industry anymore. And perhaps, he never really did.

Hmm... I don't know that he doesn't respect gaming, I think it's more the industry he really doesn't like. Unless that's what you meant.

Whatever the case, he needs to grow up.

[bapenguin]

I think it always did say that , and Bap why do you say that Phil doesn't respect gaming? What exactly does that mean?

It's just his attitude towards things. I'll leave it at that.

[fitbabits]

It's just his attitude towards things. I'll leave it at that.
It's funny you should say that. I used to defend the "attitude" of Phil (and of the site) until I realized the damage it was causing. Don't get me wrong, though - I'm not suggesting that pandering to PR pressure is the way to go.

People (devs/publishers) went out of their way to ignore me due to my subscription to the site's attitude.

All I'm saying is that it's a two-way street. Treat the industry with respect, and those involved will likely support whatever you do. Treat it with contempt, though, and, well, you see the results. (That was a lot of commas!)

[Karmakin]

I don't think it's even so much the industry, but the gaming culture itself, which treats games as more than just widgets.

[Slack3r78]

Hmm... I don't know that he doesn't respect gaming, I think it's more the industry he really doesn't like. Unless that's what you meant.

Whatever the case, he needs to grow up.
Really, I think he's just completely disconnected from the rest of the gaming world in general. The DS is a gimmick, general disdain for the Wii, Magic PCs, developer X sucks, etc. Really, I can't think of anything positive that he's had to say about gaming in ages.

I really don't see how you can have a successful gaming site when the person in charge seems to hate people enjoying games, or, at the very least, presents that as his public persona.

[Harv]

The thing is Phil's attitude has always been this way. He hasn't changed. He still puts the same inflammatory postings out there that he used to. The site will never be mainstream because of that. Certainly I was surprised at the community that had built up around the site when I came back this past year. I knew that that sort of thing would never have built up with just Phil at the helm.

While he has professed to wanting more revenue and readers he has never really wanted the site to be mainstream. He has done many things over the years to keep that from happening including feuding with former Monolith CEO Jason Hall and various other game company folks. He has alienated people who worked for him who could have given the site more mainstream appeal because they didn't agree with him and the way he ran the place.

If Phil thinks your game is good he will praise it over and over again, but if he thinks it is crap then you'll get that full blast as well. There is no political aspect to him. The problem is when he really is wrong about something factually in public often he won't admit he is wrong. He often views factual errors as differences in opinion and tries to argue out of them. When he finally is proven completely incorrect he will then just remove the original post and any comments related to it. These errors are again the result of the way he writes his Pure Evil posts as just sort of his personal blog of what he is thinking at that time. They are usually more emotional than intellectual.

Again though, he is pretty much the same guy as he was nine years ago. People keep expecting him to change, but that's really not going to happen.

[NoName]

Really, I can't think of anything positive that he's had to say about gaming in ages.

Reading this sentence made me pause to try and think of something. I came up short.

Come to think of it, Evil's posts of late seems to be summed up into 3 things:
1) Bashing games/platforms
2) Asking for money
3) Dr. Horrible

Maybe if Evil changed EvAv to a Dr. Horrible fan site then he can agree on something with his readers :D.

[Harv]

I remember you!

Thanks for the info. What it comes down to for me is, I just wish Phil would respect gaming.

I don't think he does. After meeting so many developers and publishers and feeling like I have somewhat of a pulse on certain areas of the industry I just don't think he "gets gaming" or gets the industry anymore. And perhaps, he never really did.

The Evil Avatar site has always had a negative aspect to it in that regard. Phil has never shown any sort of respect for the gaming institution overall. His move has always been to poke and prod at the various aspects of it to find something worth lambasting. Often it works out that it's not a well deserved criticism, but that's always how it has been.

If it wasn't like that then it might as well have been Voodoo Extreme or Blues News.

I'm not saying you are wrong for wanting to bring a different aspect to it that is more respectful and puts legitimate complaints forefront rather than speculative opinion, but it's definitely not the way Phil would want it. You are right to move on to something else.

Hindsight is 20/20 though. Pretty sure I thought the same thing when I first started doing stuff for him. I thought that we would be able to bring the thing more mainstream with reviews and what not, but it became clear to me that that was not how it would work.

Phil started the site during the time when the web was very new and these game news sites were raking in dough from ad revenue hits. You had Voodoo Extreme, Blues News, Shugashack all of which have gone mainstream or sold out to some larger entity. Phil's site is really the only one that is still independent and there is a reason for that and it's Phil himself.

[Lutheran]

The thing is Phil's attitude has always been this way. He hasn't changed. He still puts the same inflammatory postings out there that he used to. The site will never be mainstream because of that. Certainly I was surprised at the community that had built up around the site when I came back this past year. I knew that that sort of thing would never have built up with just Phil at the helm.

Hmm I love Bap and Fit but before I had ever heard of either of them that site was busy as all hell. Its always been a pretty busy site, even with Phil arguing with people/Devs. I actually loved seeing alot of those arguements as they were pretty entertaining and Jason Hall always held his own. Phil wasn't the only one arguing with Jason at that time IIRC , he was a pretty arrogant dude at that time.

While he has professed to wanting more revenue and readers he has never really wanted the site to be mainstream. He has done many things over the years to keep that from happening including feuding with former Monolith CEO Jason Hall and various other game company folks.

I really don't think he ever cared about turning the site into IGN. I liked that it wasn't like that. I think Bap and Fits left at the right time for them as they should have their own website to do as they please with it. And this move will force Phil into being more active like he was in the old days. It was his running of the page in the beginning that made me stop there every day. I liked how he ran the page just like I liked how Billy ran VE.



If Phil thinks your game is good he will praise it over and over again, but if he thinks it is crap then you'll get that full blast as well. There is no political aspect to him.

Thats exactly what I like to read , there shouldn't be any political aspect to reviewing or commenting on a game. Why should he fudge his opinion of a game? So he can have better developer relationships? I really don't think he ever cared about being tight with the dev's. Again thats what I liked about the site. I think in the end this will work out good for Phil and for COG. The more places for me to visit and have gaming discussions at the better. EA will continue on and recover from this and this network will also flourish. Everybody wins.

[Goronmon]

Thats exactly what I like to read , there shouldn't be any political aspect to reviewing or commenting on a game. Why should he fudge his opinion of a game? So he can have better developer relationships?I have no problem with taking stances like Evil does when you can back it up with solid reasons. However, there were times when Evil just seemed hate on games and platforms just because he was looking for a reason to make a post.

[fitbabits]

Thats exactly what I like to read , there shouldn't be any political aspect to reviewing or commenting on a game. Why should he fudge his opinion of a game? So he can have better developer relationships? I really don't think he ever cared about being tight with the dev's. Again thats what I liked about the site. I think in the end this will work out good for Phil and for COG. The more places for me to visit and have gaming discussions at the better. EA will continue on and recover from this and this network will also flourish. Everybody wins.

I'll reply to this as I feel I know a little more about Phil in this regard.

His "attitude" is just his schtick now. He's admitted many times to trolling his own site, and it's that level of immaturity I was keen to distance myself from.

As I said earlier, you can be critical of developers, publishers, games, etc. without being an ass. You can also praise them if deserved without seeming like an over-caffeinated loon.

[Maskatron]

I actually loved seeing alot of those arguements as they were pretty entertaining and Jason Hall always held his own. Phil wasn't the only one arguing with Jason at that time IIRC , he was a pretty arrogant dude at that time.



I was reading the site back at the time, and I sort of felt that it was Phil that was a lot more antagonistic. Here's an example of an exchange (http://www.planetcrap.com/topics/72) between them during that period.

[LordDon]

I was reading the site back at the time, and I sort of felt that it was Phil that was a lot more antagonistic. Here's an example of an exchange (http://www.planetcrap.com/topics/72) between them during that period.

Whatever else Jason Hall had done in the past, he came off much more mature in that exchange than Phil did. God, how old is he again?

[Shadowstorm]

Whatever else Jason Hall had done in the past, he came off much more mature in that exchange than Phil did. God, how old is he again?

He's 40.

10 char.

[NoName]

I was reading the site back at the time, and I sort of felt that it was Phil that was a lot more antagonistic. Here's an example of an exchange (http://www.planetcrap.com/topics/72) between them during that period.

Wow, that's a really old post.

I see Evil hasn't changed the way he posts in the last 8 years at least... I can't believe he sent those e-mails.

[Psykoboy2]

I was reading the site back at the time, and I sort of felt that it was Phil that was a lot more antagonistic. Here's an example of an exchange (http://www.planetcrap.com/topics/72) between them during that period.

Hmm...makes a lot more sense now when Phil made a comment to the mods about discussing the Jace Hall Show or whatever it was.

[Lutheran]

I'll reply to this as I feel I know a little more about Phil in this regard.

His "attitude" is just his schtick now. He's admitted many times to trolling his own site, and it's that level of immaturity I was keen to distance myself from.

As I said earlier, you can be critical of developers, publishers, games, etc. without being an ass. You can also praise them if deserved without seeming like an over-caffeinated loon.


I am surprised you guys lasted this long working for him as it seems neither of you have an ounce of respect for him. I had always for some reason had the feeling that all of you guys were close , never had a clue you all thought he was clueless about the business or gaming or how to run a website. Guess I was bad at reading between the lines. In my pm's with him over the years when Bap or you came up he praised you all or talked about you like you were family or at the very least good friends.

[Harv]

Hmm I love Bap and Fit but before I had ever heard of either of them that site was busy as all hell. Its always been a pretty busy site, even with Phil arguing with people/Devs. I actually loved seeing alot of those arguements as they were pretty entertaining and Jason Hall always held his own. Phil wasn't the only one arguing with Jason at that time IIRC , he was a pretty arrogant dude at that time.

I really don't think he ever cared about turning the site into IGN. I liked that it wasn't like that. I think Bap and Fits left at the right time for them as they should have their own website to do as they please with it. And this move will force Phil into being more active like he was in the old days. It was his running of the page in the beginning that made me stop there every day. I liked how he ran the page just like I liked how Billy ran VE.

Thats exactly what I like to read , there shouldn't be any political aspect to reviewing or commenting on a game. Why should he fudge his opinion of a game? So he can have better developer relationships? I really don't think he ever cared about being tight with the dev's. Again thats what I liked about the site. I think in the end this will work out good for Phil and for COG. The more places for me to visit and have gaming discussions at the better. EA will continue on and recover from this and this network will also flourish. Everybody wins.

The site has been popular, but not to the level that Voodoo Extreme, Blues News or Shugashack have been at various times. Hell, look at shacknews. They make front page posts that receive thousands of replies and that's just for general "I did this this weekend" posts. Phil has said in the past that traffic was not anywhere near what those sites received and I think he was being straight about that. I don't think that Phil's heavy handed moderation encourages a broad discussion forum and that is what I was surprised about seeing having come back after many years.

I think your replies are all predicated on the idea that I think the way Phil runs the site is wrong. That's not really the case. I think it's wrong if he wanted to be mainstream, but that's not really what he wants it to be overall. He has his thing and that's how he does it and that is that. I'm just surprised people think he will change his tune. He's been doing the same thing for around ten years now and there is little indication he will ever change.

[Slack3r78]

I am surprised you guys lasted this long working for him as it seems neither of you have an ounce of respect for him. I had always for some reason had the feeling that all of you guys were close , never had a clue you all thought he was clueless about the business or gaming or how to run a website. Guess I was bad at reading between the lines. In my pm's with him over the years when Bap or you came up he praised you all or talked about you like you were family or at the very least good friends.
Well, when you find out that somebody who you thought was your friend has been lying to you, it tends to hurt your opinion of them.

Just because they're unhappy with him now doesn't mean that's always been the case. Relationships aren't steady state.

[Slack3r78]

I was reading the site back at the time, and I sort of felt that it was Phil that was a lot more antagonistic. Here's an example of an exchange (http://www.planetcrap.com/topics/72) between them during that period.
The comment thread is even more interesting than the post itself. The comments from Dave Long, in particular, definitely provide an interesting perspective on things.

[fitbabits]

I am surprised you guys lasted this long working for him as it seems neither of you have an ounce of respect for him. I had always for some reason had the feeling that all of you guys were close , never had a clue you all thought he was clueless about the business or gaming or how to run a website. Guess I was bad at reading between the lines. In my pm's with him over the years when Bap or you came up he praised you all or talked about you like you were family or at the very least good friends.

We were close at one point, and I did consider him to be a dear friend. That's not what this is about, though.

In the events leading up to me leaving, he showed me absolutely no professional respect, nor did he treat me as an equal.

I will praise Phil where appropriate, but I simply cannot condone his actions in the recent past.

[Goronmon]

I think your replies are all predicated on the idea that I think the way Phil runs the site is wrong. That's not really the case. I think it's wrong if he wanted to be mainstream, but that's not really what he wants it to be overall.Problem is, that there doesn't seem to be any clear indication as to what Phil wants the site to be. He allowed the community to develop as it did with the occasional inflammatory rant he would make. Then all of a sudden his rants become more frequent and disagreement with his rants suddenly became against the "rules". He almost seems to be against any sort of community developing on Evil Avatar.

What's even funnier is that he labels the people who left the site as "drama queens" when he is the one who takes the ranting more seriously than anyone. I mean, it's like he wants a site where people just throw insults at each other...you just aren't allowed to throw insults that disagree with his.

[fitbabits]

The site has been popular, but not to the level that Voodoo Extreme, Blues News or Shugashack have been at various times. Hell, look at shacknews. They make front page posts that receive thousands of replies and that's just for general "I did this this weekend" posts. Phil has said in the past that traffic was not anywhere near what those sites received and I think he was being straight about that. I don't think that Phil's heavy handed moderation encourages a broad discussion forum and that is what I was surprised about seeing having come back after many years.

I think your replies are all predicated on the idea that I think the way Phil runs the site is wrong. That's not really the case. I think it's wrong if he wanted to be mainstream, but that's not really what he wants it to be overall. He has his thing and that's how he does it and that is that. I'm just surprised people think he will change his tune. He's been doing the same thing for around ten years now and there is little indication he will ever change.
This where you and I will be disagreeing. In conversations with Phil, he was desperate for EvAv to be taken seriously, to be more mainstream, to be a legitimate business. Yet, when approached with an opportunity to take the site forward, he slapped it down and basically belittled the hard work myself and others had contributed. And that's not even touching on the donation issue - one which can neither be condoned nor accepted.

[Harv]

Problem is, that there doesn't seem to be any clear indication as to what Phil wants the site to be. He allowed the community to develop as it did with the occasional inflammatory rant he would make. Then all of a sudden his rants become more frequent and disagreement with his rants suddenly became against the "rules". He almost seems to be against any sort of community developing on Evil Avatar.

What's even funnier is that he labels the people who left the site as "drama queens" when he is the one who takes the ranting more seriously than anyone. I mean, it's like he wants a site where people just throw insults at each other...you just aren't allowed to throw insults that disagree with his.

I think it falls into the pattern that Dave Long described in that PlanetCrap thread back in 2000. When Phil is no longer the center of attention on the site then he demolishes things until they get back to a point where he once again feels in control.

[Harv]

This where you and I will be disagreeing. In conversations with Phil, he was desperate for EvAv to be taken seriously, to be more mainstream, to be a legitimate business. Yet, when approached with an opportunity to take the site forward, he slapped it down and basically belittled the hard work myself and others had contributed. And that's not even touching on the donation issue - one which can neither be condoned nor accepted.

He has said the same to me in the past, but whether he knows it or not his actions run counter to that sentiment. I think what Phil wants is the mainstream revenue that such a site would bring and to be taken seriously, but he still wants to be able to say whatever he wants and be the center of the site.

So, essentially while he might say he wants it to be mainstream, he doesn't act like he wants it to be mainstream.

[Xerxes]

So him not getting a Wii was his fault?

Is this true?
He uses aliases and supports himself in threads. He does run other game sites that you probably have no idea it's him. He's a manipulator, pure and simple.

[Voodoo]

Hey Data/Harv! Glad to see you return. :) Back when you was around, I was Mumm-Ra.

[fitbabits]

So him not getting a Wii was his fault?

Is this true?

Yes, and yes.

[Xerxes]

No body willing to point out these other gaming sites? :D

[Harv]

Hey Data/Harv! Glad to see you return. :) Back when you was around, I was Mumm-Ra.

Whassup man! I remember you from the old forums. Though I guess back in those days it wasn't a forum so much as comments on the news posts.

Yes, and yes.

I wonder what other sites he runs. I don't remember actually hearing of any. I thought that was just Dave being a little fired up. I find it hard to believe he still does that now if he ever did. Back in the day he didn't have a full time job or a kid and he has both now.

[MagGnome]

I honestly don't think anyone is going to blame you or Nick (only mentioning the admins here, the mods obviously aren't to blame either). I'm pretty sure that what happened in August opened everyone's eyes to who Philip really is.

If they were going to blame anyone other than the man responsible, they wouldn't have moved over here.

Pfft, speak for yourself. I personally think this is all James' fault. :mad:


Of course I'm totally kidding! You guys have done awesome work setting up this new site for us, and I for one am very grateful and happy to be here. :)

[BLeeP]

Not to belittle anyone, but it's the tip of the frustration iceberg for me personally. I feel like I was conned, and in doing so I conned the community. It makes me sick to my stomach that I was somehow complicit in the people donating what they did.

You have absolutely no reason to feel like that as far as community relations goes. I doubt there is anyone on the internet at all who thinks you are a bad person, and I feel that this new site goes on to prove how great you (and all of the other founding fathers) are ten fold.

Cheer up, Charlie.

[n3rdXcore]

It's been a week and I still refresh this site every 20 minutes or so, with Gmail constantly open to see if there have been any replies to my subscribed threads. Fuck yeah, CoG!

[Xerxes]

You have absolutely no reason to feel like that as far as community relations goes. I doubt there is anyone on the internet at all who thinks you are a bad person, and I feel that this new site goes on to prove how great you (and all of the other founding fathers) are ten fold.

Cheer up, Charlie.

We bought him a PS3. He better stop feeling down. :)

[Dukefrukem]

oh hello (more words)

[pomeroy]

oh hello (more words)

*sigh*....

[pseudopseudo]

oh hello (more words)

'Bout freakin' time!

[fitbabits]

oh hello (more words)
Oh, fuck-a-duck. Game over, man - the frukem is here.

[Dukefrukem]

'Bout freakin' time!

im oblivious to things... i get two PMs on EA to come here.. could someone please explain to me what's going on?

[DangerousDaze]

im oblivious to things... i get two PMs on EA to come here.. could someone please explain to me what's going on?

Well the guy above you there is Fits, and Bap's here too. And everyone else. That about covers it.

[pseudopseudo]

im oblivious to things... i get two PMs on EA to come here.. could someone please explain to me what's going on?

Read the first couple pages of this thread - should give you all the information you need.

[NoName]

Read through this thread, it's long but worthwhile. Also, welcome, glad you made it over!

Edit: And by first couple Pseudo means at 40 posts a page ;).

[Dukefrukem]

I'd really like the cliff notes version but ok.

[pseudopseudo]

Edit: And by first couple Pseudo means at 40 posts a page ;).

Is there any other way to view these forums? :D

I'd really like the cliff notes version but ok.

The first couple pages in this thread IS the Cliff Notes version, sadly. :o

[Dukefrukem]

Holy shit... just got done reading the first page and if that's true... then I am deleted it from my bookmarks...

[AgtFox]

Holy shit... just got done reading the first page and if that's true... then I am deleted it from my bookmarks...
Well, it's true that is why we left EvAv. Depends on whether you think 5 recently former reds are telling the truth or not.

[Kem0sabe]

Oh hello! :)

[Slack3r78]

Holy shit... just got done reading the first page and if that's true... then I am deleted it from my bookmarks...
Suicide is not the answer!

[court12b]

If they're regular readers of the site there's no doubt in my mind they would notice.

I caught the "i'm leaving" threads before they were deleted. I hung around for about a week. Once I got tired of watching the tumbleweeds I came and tracked you guys down. Man I worked so hard on those 300 posts over the course of 3 years! oh well, back to 1 I guess :D

glad I found ya'll, carry on :D

[boratika]

Suicide is not the answer!

Okay then:

"what is suicide?"

[Pureboy]

I too was an EvAv news editor for a year or two, and Harv/Data's comments are spot on. I know nothing "insider-y" about expenses or revenue, but I felt like whenever there were attempts to create stronger connections with the Dev community, Phil would crap all over it. It is his site, so that was his prerogative, but it ensured that EvAv would never reach the mainstream appeal that many of the other sites that appeared around the same time did.

That, together with feeling that my time was better served elsewhere, led me to leave the site.

And the news about how he has not reimbursed his editors for expenses means, after a good 8 or 9 years of being a regular visitor, I'm deleting EvAv off my bookmarks. Enough is enough.

[Schnoogs]

Fits is here...that made my decision easy enough.

[fitbabits]

I too was an EvAv news editor for a year or two, and Harv/Data's comments are spot on. I know nothing "insider-y" about expenses or revenue, but I felt like whenever there were attempts to create stronger connections with the Dev community, Phil would crap all over it. It is his site, so that was his prerogative, but it ensured that EvAv would never reach the mainstream appeal that many of the other sites that appeared around the same time did.

That, together with feeling that my time was better served elsewhere, led me to leave the site.

Welcome to CoG!

[fitbabits]

Fits is here...that made my decision easy enough.
Who is this "fits" you talk of?

Thank you!

[Schnoogs]

Who is this "fits" you talk of?

Thank you!

It's gonna take me a while to get use to your "new" name...although I suppose you've had this one quite a bit longer than Fitbabits!

[fitbabits]

It's gonna take me a while to get use to your "new" name...although I suppose you've had this one quite a bit longer than Fitbabits!

You can still refer to me as fits, fitbabits, fitty, etc. - it's no biggie. I went with my given name in an attempt to be seen as more professional. I'll always be fitbabits. I will never, ever be fitabits, though!

[QueQueg]

Ever since I joined EvAv, he always came off as a complete asshole to me. I remember one time he posted in a politics thread and said he was fine with either of the candidates winning because if Obama wins, he'll be assassinated and if McCain wins, we'll be off to greener pastures. I lol'd.

MagicPCs 4 lyfe!

QFT. He always came off as a hyper-conservative douche in the P&R threads.

[Oblivion]

Holy fuck.

I will keep checking both sites but I felt EvAv news content were going down. Time will tell

[Dukefrukem]

Holy fuck.

I will keep checking both sites but I felt EvAv news content were going down. Time will tell

i noticed it too but didn't know the reason for it was because baps, fits and fox were all over here. News content here is much better now.

[Rune_74]

If you tell anyone the reasons for the exodus then you are banned permenantly....got something to hide at evil avatar?

OMG Iw as wonderin who you were young....heheh fits cool:)

[Slack3r78]

If you tell anyone the reasons for the exodus then you are banned permenantly....got something to hide at evil avatar?

OMG Iw as wonderin who you were young....heheh fits cool:)
Wow, you really did get banned. I had just read the thread that I'm assuming caused it after something mentioned in this thread. Ridiculous.

[fitbabits]

Wow, you really did get banned. I had just read the thread that I'm assuming caused it after something mentioned in this thread. Ridiculous.
I don't know how people are still surprised at Evil's iron fist approach to moderation at EvAv.

[Kelegacy]

You can still refer to me as fits, fitbabits, fitty, etc. - it's no biggie. I went with my given name in an attempt to be seen as more professional. I'll always be fitbabits. I will never, ever be fitabits, though!

I'll stick to calling you Dumpster, Dumpster.

[bapenguin]

I too was an EvAv news editor for a year or two, and Harv/Data's comments are spot on. I know nothing "insider-y" about expenses or revenue, but I felt like whenever there were attempts to create stronger connections with the Dev community, Phil would crap all over it. It is his site, so that was his prerogative, but it ensured that EvAv would never reach the mainstream appeal that many of the other sites that appeared around the same time did.

That, together with feeling that my time was better served elsewhere, led me to leave the site.

And the news about how he has not reimbursed his editors for expenses means, after a good 8 or 9 years of being a regular visitor, I'm deleting EvAv off my bookmarks. Enough is enough.

Pureboy! Welcome! It's been a while.

[Slack3r78]

I don't know how people are still surprised at Evil's iron fist approach to moderation at EvAv.
Mostly the fact that Evil wasn't online at the time the banning happened. The fact that a couple of the new mods apparently have ban authority is nothing short of hilarious to me.

u2MP6-JAR6Y

[AgtFox]

Mostly the fact that Evil wasn't online at the time the banning happened. The fact that a couple of the new mods apparently have ban authority is nothing short of hilarious to me.
He might have been on, you can hide yourself being on from everyone but Admins.

[Oblivion]

I just read the Founder logo under bap's nick as POUNDER. coupled with the constipated look he is giving...

[Pureboy]

Pureboy! Welcome! It's been a while.True dat. I've taken a more passive role in gaming over the years, but I've never left. I'm happy to join the COGers now. Truth is, here is the community I've always been with, it just switched sites :D
Now why won't you display my monkey avatar? Too big?
EDIT: Ah, figured it out.

[Illuminus]

So this is where everyone ran off to! While i didnt follow any of the "forum politics" on EA, it is kinda dodgy what was happening. I liked the site a lot (the black/red theme and simpliticty), but at the end i guess its the people that make the site.

It will take some time adjusting to the new layout though :/

[PixelSamurai]

Whew! As a lurker by trade, I don't typically donate, although I was tempted a few times by the atmosphere of the EvAv site. I was wondering where all the familiar names went, people whose opinions I respected, so I did some searching and found this discussion. I doubt my presence was terribly noticeable at EA, but I'll be spending my lurking duties here for now. :)

[NoName]

So this is where everyone ran off to! While i didnt follow any of the "forum politics" on EA, it is kinda dodgy what was happening. I liked the site a lot (the black/red theme and simpliticty), but at the end i guess its the people that make the site.

It will take some time adjusting to the new layout though :/

If you scroll to the very bottom of the site, there's a little box that lets you choose an awesome new theme.

Whew! As a lurker by trade, I don't typically donate, although I was tempted a few times by the atmosphere of the EvAv site. I was wondering where all the familiar names went, people whose opinions I respected, so I did some searching and found this discussion. I doubt my presence was terribly noticeable at EA, but I'll be spending my lurking duties here for now. :)

Welcome, glad to have you lurking here!

[Illuminus]

If you scroll to the very bottom of the site, there's a little box that lets you choose an awesome new theme.


Woot, thanks! Bright colours are so yesterday :p.