Sony Pulls Movies From Netflix' NXE Streaming

[Telefrog]

Talk about sour grapes! Columbia Pictures has pulled their movies from Netflix just as the NXE hits the general public (http://www.joystiq.com/2008/11/18/nxe-netflix-streaming-queues-suddenly-gimped/). Columbia is a subsidiary of Sony.

Our Netflix streaming queues just got considerably shorter on the eve of the NXE launch. Acting on a tip, we popped into our Netflix account and sure enough, our "Instant Queue" had a new "Notes" column with an oft-repeated, red (nobody likes red!) notice: "Not available on Xbox." Logging onto Xbox Live (with an NXE account) confirmed that these titles were no longer available for streaming on Xbox 360.
...
Update: We've found a common thread! All of the affected titles from our Queue are distributed by Columbia Pictures. Columbia Pictures, of course, is owned by Sony Pictures Entertainment, a subsidiary of Microsoft rival Sony. Case closed?
How long until all Sony movies get pulled?

UPDATE: MTV gets confirmation (http://multiplayerblog.mtv.com/2008/11/18/sony-blocks-netflix-360-movies/) from Netflix that this is not a glitch. Netflix VP of corporate communications Steve Swasey had this to say:We’re doing well in this area, but it will take some time before we fully achieve that goal. Today, titles regularly come in and out of license and there is a natural ebb and flow to what we have on license at any given point in time.”

[Mdot]

Class move.

[Variable Gear]

How long until all Sony movies get pulled?
A few days.

[Restlessavenger]

That's weak. They were even there last night. I was kind of impressed that a few more recent films were available.

[DoctorFinger]

I really, really hope there's some alternate explanation.

[jacob.armitage]

this really screams childish to me, and will in no way benefit having sony removed from the servie, does anyone really associate thier movies with the playstation brand?

completely daft.

[bapenguin]

There's gotta be another reason. There's no competition in that sector between the two.

[Shadowstorm]

Another reason why our media should not be in control of a few corporations.

[Iron Past]

I really, really hope there's some alternate explanation.

I hope so, because that is very, very petty of them otherwise.

[Stoke]

This is equivalent to the kid that is losing at a playground game so he decides to take his ball and go home leaving everyone else without a ball.

[KingGorilla]

I really, really hope there's some alternate explanation.

I doubt it would be any more savory. But if it happens to be "We wanted to put it all up for free on Hulu" then I may be swayed.

But I am thinking this has to be a licensing issue. Sony may own Columbia, but it does not control every title that was released under that production house in perpetuity. Sony bought it in the 90's. Not to mention things like how nasty it can get when music is brought into the mix. Big reason you do not see many older TV shows on DVD like The Wonder Years. Licensing for streaming in the home is different than online, is different from DVD.

[Hellbug]

Another reason why our media should not be in control of a few corporations.

Businesses don't have to provide the consumer with a good if they do not want to. They aren't necessarily harming us by pulling goods off a certain market, just themselves.

Go ahead Sony, let competition that is on a completely different market affect your entire business. You are the one who looks like an idiot for not opening more avenues for your products, and for potentially losing more money by doing so.

[hideouslywrinkled]

Not to mention things like how nasty it can get when music is brought into the mix. Big reason you do not see many older TV shows on DVD like The Wonder Years. Licensing for streaming in the home is different than online, is different from DVD.

Huh. I wouldn't be surprised if you're on to something. Streaming content really, really scares the hell out of a lot of greedy lawyers, agents and artists.

[Shadowstorm]

Businesses don't have to provide the consumer with a good if they do not want to. They aren't necessarily harming us by pulling goods off a certain market, just themselves.

Do you realize how much of our media in the United States is controlled by the same three or four corporations? It's terrible. This is never a good thing.

[violent]

Right on time for NXE release. You guys can scream sour grapes all you want but c'mon, what did you expect? Especially now that Sony has their own movie service. I'm not saying to enjoy the move, especially if you're a big 360 person, just that surprise shouldn't be a part of this.

[Mike Kelehan]

And this is why there will never be Blu-ray on 360.

[violent]

And this is why there will never be Blu-ray on 360.

That would actually make sense since Sony owns that market. It's not like a huge chunk of the blu-ray sales will be making it to MS. Unless of course, you mean MS will refuse to carry it in order to prevent sales to Sony.

[Telefrog]

I doubt it would be any more savory. But if it happens to be "We wanted to put it all up for free on Hulu" then I may be swayed.

But I am thinking this has to be a licensing issue. Sony may own Columbia, but it does not control every title that was released under that production house in perpetuity. Sony bought it in the 90's. Not to mention things like how nasty it can get when music is brought into the mix. Big reason you do not see many older TV shows on DVD like The Wonder Years. Licensing for streaming in the home is different than online, is different from DVD.

But these Columbia movies are fine on Netflix online and their set-top box. The only service they aren't available on using Netflix is the 360 NXE. Sour grapes is really the only explanation that makes any sense.

[inmostlight]

Huh. I wouldn't be surprised if you're on to something. Streaming content really, really scares the hell out of a lot of greedy lawyers, agents and artists.

It's not licensing. You can still stream the exact same movies on a computer. (Can anybody confirm if they still work on a Roku or any of the other netflix-enabled devices?) The only place where they have disabled this is for the Xbox users. This is pure, malicious spite. The films have already been licensed for streaming, it is simply Sony not wanting the competition to use their films.

And frankly, given their previous forays into DRM, proprietary formats, and rootkits on their cds, I guess this shouldn't surprise me. I'm sure if there was a way so that they could require you to only play their movies on a Sony device, they'd do that.

[violent]

But these Columbia movies are fine on Netflix online and their set-top box. The only service they aren't available on using Netflix is the 360 NXE. Sour grapes is really the only explanation that makes any sense.

Do you really not see any other reason other than sour grapes? Sony is a multi-billion dollar corporation, not a schoolgirl. Money. That's what this is about, nothing more.

[KingGorilla]

But these Columbia movies are fine on Netflix online and their set-top box. The only service they aren't available on using Netflix is the 360 NXE. Sour grapes is really the only explanation that makes any sense.

I am not privy to what licensing agreements Microsoft, Netflix, Tivo, etc. have been engaged in for its movie content. Just like other folks, I am just speculating. But the world of distribution, licensing, and broadcast of content is a scary one.

Prime contendor of a sticky siutuation would be Spiderman. Maybe Netflix or Microsoft never signed off with Marvel on the movie. Stephen Spielberg, Paramount, has a special distribution deal for all of his movies, he has right of refusal.

[Murtaug]

Do you really not see any other reason other than sour grapes? Sony is a multi-billion dollar corporation, not a schoolgirl. Money. That's what this is about, nothing more.

The movies have been licensed for streaming, they gain no more or no less by blocking them from Netflix on the 360. Now maybe they could be trying to get more money out of Netflix/Microsoft to allow these movies, who knows, the only thing this will actually accomplish in the short term anyway is to piss off consumers.

[Restlessavenger]

Do you really not see any other reason other than sour grapes? Sony is a multi-billion dollar corporation, not a schoolgirl. Money. That's what this is about, nothing more.

Exactly, why would Sony allow their films to be viewed for free on an Xbox when they charge for them on the PS3.

[OldJadedGamer]

Right on time for NXE release. You guys can scream sour grapes all you want but c'mon, what did you expect? Especially now that Sony has their own movie service. I'm not saying to enjoy the move, especially if you're a big 360 person, just that surprise shouldn't be a part of this.

So it makes sense for Microsoft to kill Sony's license for their Vaio computers basically killing off Sony's entire PC division in the process?

Companies may compete on some levels but they work together great on others.

[violent]

The movies have been licensed for streaming, they gain no more or no less by blocking them from Netflix on the 360. Now maybe they could be trying to get more money out of Netflix/Microsoft to allow these movies, who knows, the only thing this will actually accomplish in the short term anyway is to piss off consumers.

Incorrect. By blocking Sony films from NXE streaming, it limits the availablity of those movies to namely, PS3 or other Sony devices. Believe it or not, that fact sways some to Sony and drives others away from Microsoft (namely, Netflix/NXE). Not saying those folk are smart, but they're existent.

Exactly, why would Sony allow their films to be viewed for free on an Xbox when they charge for them on the PS3.

Correct.

So it makes sense for Microsoft to kill Sony's license for their Vaio computers basically killing off Sony's entire PC division in the process?

Companies may compete on some levels but they work together great on others.

Difference is, Microsoft makes money on Vaio's.

[Telefrog]

Do you really not see any other reason other than sour grapes? Sony is a multi-billion dollar corporation, not a schoolgirl. Money. That's what this is about, nothing more.

Of course it's about money. You're delusional if you think hard feelings don't play into this as well. Businesses are run by people. Fallible, bitter, greedy, sometimes grudge-holding people. Corporations aren't run by robots. Sometimes feelings get hurt and execs lash out.

They aren't solely motivated by money, although it's certainly nice when the two goals intersect. :D

[fitbabits]

Unless Sony comes up with an explanation that passes the smell test, you can expect them to get hammered from all and sundry.

I don't understand this, to be honest. The timing stinks and seems to point to the obvious, not to mention juvenile, answer many suspect.

[violent]

Of course it's about money. You're delusional if you think hard feelings don't play into this as well. Businesses are run by people. Fallible, bitter, greedy, sometimes grudge-holding people.

They aren't solely motivated by money, although it's certainly nice when the two goals intersect. :D

I genuinely think this is purely about money. Delusional to me is finding excuse beyond the blatantly obvious. Even if there is sour grapes, who's to know? Us? Hardly. Therefore I don't find it to be a viable point in discussion that isn't about make believe.

Unless Sony comes up with an explanation that passes the smell test, you can expect them to get hammered from all and sundry.

I don't understand this, to be honest. The timing stinks and seems to point to the obvious, not to mention juvenile, answer many suspect.

Hammered by who? The thousands of Microsoft fans that hammer Sony for less? Those have to be old bruises by now.

[OldJadedGamer]

Difference is, Microsoft makes money on Vaio's.

Don't you think that taking that license away hurts Sony more then it hurts Microsoft? So I'm guessing from your response that you feel it would be ok to do this even though it would be a total dick move and childish at best just like what Sony is doing here?

Hammered by who? The thousands of Microsoft fans that hammer Sony for less? Those have to be old bruises by now.

The press of every news outlet you can think of and not just the gaming press. It's like Columbia pictures making the Spiderman movie only play on Sony made DVD players or Sony made television shows only play on Sony made TV's or Sony music artists CD's only play on Sony made CD players.

You get the point. This is the problem when one company has their hands in too many forms of media. What happens if Apple starts a gaming system, do all Sony's movies, music, and TV shows get pulled from iTunes?

Where does it stop? Then Microsoft starts buying movie studios, record labels, and TV studios to do the same to Sony then we end up a few companies that own everything and will do nothing to fuck off the other guy all the while the consumer is the big loser.

[Xerxes]

I really, really hope there's some alternate explanation.

No. You can log in net flix and it say not available on xbox. It's only one way.

[violent]

Don't you think that taking that license away hurts Sony more then it hurts Microsoft? So I'm guessing from your response that you feel it would be ok to do this even though it would be a total dick move and childish at best just like what Sony is doing here?

Again, there is money involved. I don't think Microsoft would do it just to be a dick just like I don't think Sony is doing this just to be a dick. It's about money. Also, don't guess on my behalf please. I prefer you just ask me. I'll be glad to share my thoughts.

The press of every news outlet you can think of and not just the gaming press. It's like Columbia pictures making the Spiderman movie only play on Sony made DVD players or Sony made television shows only play on Sony made TV's or Sony music artists CD's only play on Sony made CD players.

You get the point. This is the problem when one company has their hands in too many forms of media. What happens if Apple starts a gaming system, do all Sony's movies, music, and TV shows get pulled from iTunes?

Where does it stop? Then Microsoft starts buying movie studios, record labels, and TV studios to do the same to Sony then we end up a few companies that own everything and will do nothing to fuck off the other guy all the while the consumer is the big loser.

The thing here is that you're taking it to an extreme. Sony stopping the free viewing of their movies only on a single, competing device is an obvious move. This isn't Sony placing an embargo on all their properties. If the general press is unable to put those pieces together then here's the real news: we all have much bigger problems than where to watch movies.

In regards to the pattern this seems to be creating, I share your concern. Unfortunately we've been on this track for some time now. Things are gonna get much sillier in the coming years.

[Xerxes]

Do you really not see any other reason other than sour grapes? Sony is a multi-billion dollar corporation, not a schoolgirl. Money. That's what this is about, nothing more.
No they are little schoolgirls.

I am not privy to what licensing agreements Microsoft, Netflix, Tivo, etc. have been engaged in for its movie content. Just like other folks, I am just speculating. But the world of distribution, licensing, and broadcast of content is a scary one.

Prime contendor of a sticky siutuation would be Spiderman. Maybe Netflix or Microsoft never signed off with Marvel on the movie. Stephen Spielberg, Paramount, has a special distribution deal for all of his movies, he has right of refusal.
Bull shit. If it's on one set top it should be on all of them.

Exactly, why would Sony allow their films to be viewed for free on an Xbox when they charge for them on the PS3.
They aren't being viewed for free. I'm sure they are being paid by netflix for the allowance of streaming movies. If it's fine for computers and other boxes... I'm going to be a broken record on this.

Difference is, Microsoft makes money on Vaio's.
And Sony makes money from netflix to allow for streaming. Again, if you aren't going to allow it on one set top box, don't allow it on any. Again they are little schoolgirls.

[violent]

No they are little schoolgirls.

You're not selling me cowboy. You're gonna have to put a little more effort than that.

EDIT: Just read all your responses to the other. I think I understand where you're coming from now. You're bitter.

[Xerxes]

You're not selling me cowboy. You're gonna have to put a little more effort than that.

EDIT: Just read all your responses to the other. I think I understand where you're coming from now. You're bitter.

No, if you allow something on one set top box you should allow it for all. I hope Netflix got a discount for letting Sony gimp them. I actually am bitter. It reeks of shenanigans. I didn't know how many Sony related movies I added to my queue until I saw this thread. Lo and behold it was more than I figured.

[violent]

No, if you allow something on one set top box you should allow it for all. I hope Netflix got a discount for letting Sony gimp them. I actually am bitter. It reeks of shenanigans. I didn't know how many Sony related movies I added to my queue until I saw this thread. Lo and behold it was more than I figured.

Hey, I agree with you that it blows. It really does. I also agree that certain decisions could use to be more universal but unfortunately, it's not always that convenient. And even though I think Sony will look like a total dick after this, I question whether or not I'd feel obligated to do the same were I in that situation. Remember, Sony's movie division is one of the few profitable ones. To allow their competition to take a bite out of that would be suicide.

I'm trying to look at this from a business perspective. As an end-user whose only concern is the convenience of streaming movies, it's utter bullshit.

[Hellbug]

Do you realize how much of our media in the United States is controlled by the same three or four corporations? It's terrible. This is never a good thing.

I'm fine with it. If Sony was treating the customers like shit in this situation I might be up in arms, but all they are doing is trying to keep Microsoft from getting any revenue whatsoever from their products. This is something they have a right to do.

If I want to watch some of these movies, I can always go through other avenues to watch them. It isn't like Sony is taking the movies off the market, they are just taking them off Microsoft's market. Violent pointed out the same thing, it seems.

It's a fight between Sony and Microsoft, not us and Sony. I'll just sit back and call Sony slightly childish, and still be able to watch all of the movies I want as long as I am willing to pay for them for it.

[Telefrog]

You're not selling me cowboy. You're gonna have to put a little more effort than that.

EDIT: Just read all your responses to the other. I think I understand where you're coming from now. You're bitter.

How about this.

Sony Pictures Classics and plain old Sony Pictures films are still available on the NXE/Netflix service. Why? If it's all about money, why not pull the whole catalogue and tell everyone to get a PSN account? Why keep some studios on the competing service and not others?

In fact, why even allow them on Netflix streaming at all? As soon as these movies became available on PSN, why didn't they pull them then if the goal is to make more money by pushing customers towards the Sony service?

Sony is trying this out with Columbia because pulling their catalogue does a couple of things.

1. Sony can check the bottom line difference between Netflix viewings and PSN viewings. Compare it after a few months and see if it makes business sense to continue either way.

2. It's a warning shot at Netflix. "Behave, or we'll pull it all. We're not bluffing."

3. It's a "screw you" to Microsoft.

That explanation nicely encompasses the dick move theory and the moneymaking one and it's very similar to what NBC did with iTunes. Why isn't that plausible?

[violent]

How about this.

Sony Pictures Classics and plain old Sony Pictures films are still available on the NXE/Netflix service. Why? If it's all about money, why not pull the whole catalogue and tell everyone to get a PSN account? Why keep some studios on the competing service and not others?

In fact, why even allow them on Netflix streaming at all? As soon as these movies became available on PSN, why didn't they pull them then if the goal is to make more money by pushing customers towards the Sony service?

Sony is trying this out with Columbia because pulling their catalogue does a couple of things.

1. Sony can check the bottom line difference between Netflix viewings and PSN viewings. Compare it after a few months and see if it makes business sense to continue either way.

2. It's a warning shot at Netflix. "Behave, or we'll pull it all. We're not bluffing."

3. It's a "screw you" to Microsoft.

That explanation nicely encompasses the dick move theory and the moneymaking one and it's very similar to what NBC did with iTunes. Why isn't that plausible?

Write them a letter then dude, what the fuck do I know what the doings behind the scenes are? My point is that considering what we know there are 2 things that can be deduced:


The pulling of the movies is happening in conjunction with the release of their direct competitors service which will allow free access to their properties. This results in a potential loss in revenue.
The only thing anyone has to bitch about is a loss in convenience. The severity of this situation is relative to the greatness of your loss.


That's it. You really want to know why business isn't going in a way that would be most serving to the clientele, you'll have to go elsewhere. It sure as hell didn't start with this move though.

[OldJadedGamer]

That explanation nicely encompasses the dick move theory and the moneymaking one and it's very similar to what NBC did with iTunes. Why isn't that plausible?

To me, it's not about the company but the practice. I thought it was bullshit when NBC did it with iTunes and it's bullshit when Sony is doing it to Microsoft.

This is what happens when you don't have standards in place and everyone acts retarded to each other. Again, the only people who lose out are the consumers.

[violent]

To me, it's not about the company but the practice. I thought it was bullshit when NBC did it with iTunes and it's bullshit when Sony is doing it to Microsoft.

This is what happens when you don't have standards in place and everyone acts retarded to each other. Again, the only people who lose out are the consumers.

This is indeed the real problem. They are also only getting worse. Unfortunately though, until people look beyond the small things they may lose, the practices will continue to prey.

[Xerxes]

Hey, I agree with you that it blows. It really does. I also agree that certain decisions could use to be more universal but unfortunately, it's not always that convenient. And even though I think Sony will look like a total dick after this, I question whether or not I'd feel obligated to do the same were I in that situation. Remember, Sony's movie division is one of the few profitable ones. To allow their competition to take a bite out of that would be suicide.

I'm trying to look at this from a business perspective. As an end-user whose only concern is the convenience of streaming movies, it's utter bullshit.

I'm looking at a business perspective as well.

Netflix, for having to gimp there streaming services on one of their set top box should get a huge discount from Sony, or not stream movies at all. They are paying to provide that service and now they are being hindered. This could cause some people cancel out of Netflix.

MS should probably back out if they can only get gimped services. This deal is bringing Netflix numerous new clients who give them money, the same money they give to Sony for licensing. Now all those customers are paying the same price with less the service. That's not good business.

Sony has nothing to gain or loose. MS probably has more to lose. They have a real library of movies to watch and they are allowing Netflix to steal a lot of movie marketplace business. Shit, I can still rent Sony movies through Netflix. I don't know if I want to now.

[jeffbax]

I'd be interested to see the other side of the story. It doesn't seem out of the realm of possibility to me that MS would disallow for WMV-DRM based Netflix onto the PS3 (same problem with Netflix streaming on the Mac or Linux). Perhaps this is Sony responding to this?

[Xerxes]

I'm fine with it. If Sony was treating the customers like shit in this situation I might be up in arms, but all they are doing is trying to keep Microsoft from getting any revenue whatsoever from their products. This is something they have a right to do.
Sony is treating customers like shit. Netflix customers. Microsoft isn't getting revenue. Netflix is getting revenue.

[violent]

I'm looking at a business perspective as well.

Netflix, for having to gimp there streaming services on one of their set top box should get a huge discount from Sony, or not stream movies at all. They are paying to provide that service and now they are being hindered. This could cause some people cancel out of Netflix.

MS should probably back out if they can only get gimped services. This deal is bringing Netflix numerous new clients who give them money, the same money they give to Sony for licensing. Now all those customers are paying the same price with less the service. That's not good business.

Sony has nothing to gain or loose. MS probably has more to lose. They have a real library of movies to watch and they are allowing Netflix to steal a lot of movie marketplace business. Shit, I can still rent Sony movies through Netflix. I don't know if I want to now.

Boils down to this Xerxes. Watch Ghostbusters 3 for free on your 360 or pay $35 for the Blu-Ray. What's going to be better for the business end for Sony? To say that they have nothing to lose is simply inaccurate.

Also, we have no idea what the negotiation between NetFlix and Sony pictures are, nor do we know if there is some other announcement coming in relation to this current move. All we know is what we know and honestly, I see this as being a big loss for Sony if they don't stop free distribution of their properties on the 360.

In terms of assumptions though, I wouldn't be surprised if there is going to be some NetFlix/Sony deal coming up soon. That way, Netflix doesn't have to lose subscribers that won't simply be gained on the other end, all the meanwhile, keeping the potentially lost revenue from actually being lost.

[violent]

Sony is treating customers like shit. Netflix customers. Microsoft isn't getting revenue. Netflix is getting revenue.

Every company treats their customers like numbers. Sony, Microsoft, Netflix, Ninetndo, Apple, Best Buy, Gamestop, Costco, BJ's Sam's Club, Peaches, Toys R' Us, Macy's, Sears, Auto Zone, Pollo Tropical, McDonalds, Frito-Lay, PepsiCo, Duracell, Walgreens, CVS, Borders, Barnes and Nobles, Gucci, Louis Vitton, Kellogg's, even my beloved Guinness.

And while Microsoft may not be keeping Sony's lost revenue, they are preventing Sony from having it. Huge difference.

[Xerxes]

Boils down to this Xerxes. Watch Ghostbusters 3 for free on your 360 or pay $35 for the Blu-Ray. What's going to be better for the business end for Sony? To say that they have nothing to lose is simply inaccurate.
See let me change your words around.
Boils down to this Xerxes. Watch Ghostbusters 3 for free on your computer or other set top box or pay $35 for the Blu-Ray. What's going to be better for the business end for Sony? To say that they have nothing to lose is simply inaccurate.
That's grounds to shut down all streams and rentals. Shutting down one of the many ways your partner provides service is foul.



Also, we have no idea what the negotiation between NetFlix and Sony pictures are, nor do we know if there is some other announcement coming in relation to this current move. All we know is what we know and honestly, I see this as being a big loss for Sony if they don't stop free distribution of their properties on the 360.
This is not a big loss for sony. By removing your movies they won't be viewed. You make no money. This is a loss to Netflix. I know others are probably considering canceling the gimped service. Netflix should offer me a totally sony less streaming package for a few bucks less.



In terms of assumptions though, I wouldn't be surprised if there is going to be some NetFlix/Sony deal coming up soon. That way, Netflix doesn't have to lose subscribers that won't simply be gained on the other end, all the meanwhile, keeping the potentially lost revenue from actually being lost.
MS set their deal with being a provider of Netflix was exclusive. That's at best wishful thinking.

[Telefrog]

Write them a letter then dude, what the fuck do I know what the doings behind the scenes are? My point is that considering what we know there are 2 things that can be deduced:


The pulling of the movies is happening in conjunction with the release of their direct competitors service which will allow free access to their properties. This results in a potential loss in revenue.
The only thing anyone has to bitch about is a loss in convenience. The severity of this situation is relative to the greatness of your loss.


That's it. You really want to know why business isn't going in a way that would be most serving to the clientele, you'll have to go elsewhere. It sure as hell didn't start with this move though.

As far as I understand it, (according to a WSJ article from last year) Netflix pays it's media suppliers on a per viewing basis. The studios get a cut off the top per viewing just as they do with physical movie rentals. If it was all about money, purely money, pulling their content for the 360 makes little to no sense since they would still have gotten paid per viewing regardless.

Personally, I couldn't give a crap less since I don't even have Netflix right now, and when I do the only thing I watched on their streaming service was documentaries and low-grade horror movies I couldn't get anywhere else. Frankly, the Columbia catalogue does nothing for me either way.

Sony is certainly within their rights to do what they want with their properties. I'm not saying they're wrong to do so. I'm just saying that it strikes me as a little odd that you refuse to see the human element of spite in their decision when it seems obvious to most.

[Xerxes]

And while Microsoft may not be keeping Sony's lost revenue, they are preventing Sony from having it. Huge difference.

You keep saying MS is stealing money. It's netflix providing the service. Watching Walk Hard on my PC is no difference for Sony if I went home and watched it on my TV.

[violent]

Xerxes, no offense but your arguments are rife with assumptions about things we have no idea about and you are obviously simply upset that you won't have access to all these films for free as you once thought. While I understand that frustration, I'm attempting to discuss something beyond just that. You keep saying that Sony has nothing to lose and that is the cornerstone of your argument. I'll leave it at I simply disagree with that statement. I think they had a lot to lose.

[Orca]

http://multiplayerblog.mtv.com/2008/11/18/sony-blocks-netflix-360-movies/

Anyone still believe it's coincidental?

[violent]

You keep saying MS is stealing money. It's netflix providing the service. Watching Walk Hard on my PC is no difference for Sony if I went home and watched it on my TV.

I would prefer to finish this discussion with you after the fact that those movies were taken away from you isn't driving your conversation.

Remember, if you don't have to pay Sony for their property, they are losing money. It's not about Sony or Microsoft, it is the most basic principal of business.

[Telefrog]

http://multiplayerblog.mtv.com/2008/11/18/sony-blocks-netflix-360-movies/

Anyone still believe it's coincidental?

Oh, I'm sure it's all just pure coincidence. :D

[PathMaster]

I can only hope for Sony to explain why.

[Expugnare]

I have to agree with Xerxes and the others here. I could understand if Sony pulled the Columbia catalog from Netflix streaming entirely as it is a potential loss of profit, but to take it from Xbox users only is just a childish "Fuck you," to Microsoft.

[Telefrog]

Remember, if you don't have to pay Sony for their property, they are losing money. It's not about Sony or Microsoft, it is the most basic principal of business.

Sony would've gotten paid. Netflix pays a fee on a per viewing basis.

[violent]

As far as I understand it, (according to a WSJ article from last year) Netflix pays it's media suppliers on a per viewing basis. The studios get a cut off the top per viewing just as they do with physical movie rentals. If it was all about money, purely money, pulling their content for the 360 makes little to no sense since they would still have gotten paid per viewing regardless.

Personally, I couldn't give a crap less since I don't even have Netflix right now, and when I do the only thing I watched on their streaming service was documentaries and low-grade horror movies I couldn't get anywhere else. Frankly, the Columbia catalogue does nothing for me either way.

Sony is certainly within their rights to do what they want with their properties. I'm not saying they're wrong to do so. I'm just saying that it strikes me as a little odd that you refuse to see the human element of spite in their decision when it seems obvious to most.

I understand what you're saying Telefrog and in a sense, you're right. I fail to see human element in big business. Maybe I'm just jaded in that regard but as often as I see business screwing their consumers, I'm not exactly being swayed to feel otherwise.

And for the record, I'm not a NetFlix subscriber although I do own a 360 and a PS3. This news really does not upset me because it doesn't affect me. I'm just trying to put the few pieces that we have together into something tangible. This is why I'm kind of astray of the whole "personal attack" argument. So early on, it's just a little to presumptuous. I will admit though, that whatever patterns start to emerge I will go along with. Even if the proof is of petty quarrel being the culprit.

[violent]

I have to agree with Xerxes and the others here. I could understand if Sony pulled the Columbia catalog from Netflix streaming entirely as it is a potential loss of profit, but to take it from Xbox users only is just a childish "Fuck you," to Microsoft.

What if they announce tomorrow that there is a new deal between NetFlix and PSN? Would it still seem like a childish "Fuck you"?

[Xerxes]

Xerxes, no offense but your arguments are rife with assumptions about things we have no idea about and you are obviously simply upset that you won't have access to all these films for free as you once thought. While I understand that frustration, I'm attempting to discuss something beyond just that. You keep saying that Sony has nothing to lose and that is the cornerstone of your argument. I'll leave it at I simply disagree with that statement. I think they had a lot to lose.

Yes I'm making several assumptions. But they are mostly counters to your own. Like you keep saying these movies are free. I gave Netflix $17.99 and I'm sure all of there customers give them the same thing, so no. It's not free.

And yes; I am simply upset but no, I still have access to Sony's movies. I can watch all the Sony movies I want that stream. I can watch them on my computer that runs Microsoft Windows XP, on Microsoft Internet Explorer if I see fit. They aren't losing on these free movies there are they?

It's the principle of the matter. I mean I can watch the movies on my LCD. It's the same 32 in I hooked up to my 360. Once it's started and made full screen, there shouldn't be any difference.

[Xerxes]

What if they announce tomorrow that there is a new deal between NetFlix and PSN? Would it still seem like a childish "Fuck you"?

Not going to happen.

I would prefer to finish this discussion with you after the fact that those movies were taken away from you isn't driving your conversation.

Remember, if you don't have to pay Sony for their property, they are losing money. It's not about Sony or Microsoft, it is the most basic principal of business.

They were taking away from the set top box. A set top box Netflix always made appear would be getting their full service. It's not. I already posted about you saying Sony isn't getting paid for licensing, so did Telefrog.

[violent]

Sony would've gotten paid. Netflix pays a fee on a per viewing basis.

That's what accountants are for. If the margin is substantial, cut your losses/maximize your profits.

[violent]

Not going to happen.

Let me guess, you still believe in exclusive deals? Facts my friend. It is indeed possible regardless of how much you may despise it.

[Telefrog]

I understand what you're saying Telefrog and in a sense, you're right. I fail to see human element in big business. Maybe I'm just jaded in that regard but as often as I see business screwing their consumers, I'm not exactly being swayed to feel otherwise.

And for the record, I'm not a NetFlix subscriber although I do own a 360 and a PS3. This news really does not upset me because it doesn't affect me. I'm just trying to put the few pieces that we have together into something tangible. This is why I'm kind of astray of the whole "personal attack" argument. So early on, it's just a little to presumptuous. I will admit though, that whatever patterns start to emerge I will go along with. Even if the proof is of petty quarrel being the culprit.

Well to argue a bit on your side, we can certainly agree that in the meta-picture, Sony wants to keep people away from any MS product since they compete in so many vertical markets. Making Netflix/360 integration less attractive to customers, regardless of the short-term loss, could be argued to be sound "big picture" strategy.

[violent]

Yes I'm making several assumptions. But they are mostly counters to your own. Like you keep saying these movies are free. I gave Netflix $17.99 and I'm sure all of there customers give them the same thing, so no. It's not free.

And yes; I am simply upset but no, I still have access to Sony's movies. I can watch all the Sony movies I want that stream. I can watch them on my computer that runs Microsoft Windows XP, on Microsoft Internet Explorer if I see fit. They aren't losing on these free movies there are they?

It's the principle of the matter. I mean I can watch the movies on my LCD. It's the same 32 in I hooked up to my 360. Once it's started and made full screen, there shouldn't be any difference.

The only thing I'm disagreeing with is the immediate assumption that this is a dick move. With the little information that has been released, it just seems greatly premature. And for the record, I'm here simply discussing business decision, nothing specific to the 3 companies in question. Seeing as I'm pretty much flying solo at this point, I'd like to explain my intentions.

[Xerxes]

I can only hope for Sony to explain why.
They don't have to.

Let me guess, you still believe in exclusive deals? Facts my friend. It is indeed possible regardless of how much you may despise it.

Yep. NFL and EA proved some do stick.

[violent]

Well to argue a bit on your side, we can certainly agree that in the meta-picture, Sony wants to keep people away from any MS product since they compete in so many vertical markets. Making Netflix/360 integration less attractive to customers, regardless of the short-term loss, could be argued to be sound "big picture" strategy.

In all fairness Telefrog, having so little info to go on at this juncture, there is little to be said that isn't presumptuous. What you just mentioned seems like a staple in business to me which is why I'm currently of that mindset. Replace the company names with any other random name and it seems equally just. All of which is part of the greater picture of unfair practices escalating in the field of everyday business.

[violent]

Yep. NFL and EA proved some do stick.

We're not arguing that some deals stick Xerxes. That is obvious knowledge. We're talking about exclusive deals that don't remain exclusive. A practice that has become more and more common in this industry.

[violent]

They were taking away from the set top box. A set top box Netflix always made appear would be getting their full service. It's not. I already posted about you saying Sony isn't getting paid for licensing, so did Telefrog.

I understand that Sony does get paid by Netflix. You're stuck on the wrong part of my point.

[Telefrog]

In all fairness Telefrog, having so little info to go on at this juncture, there is little to be said that isn't presumptuous. What you just mentioned seems like a staple in business to me which is why I'm currently of that mindset. Replace the company names with any other random name and it seems equally just. All of which is part of the greater picture of unfair practices escalating in the field of everyday business.

Yeah, it just seems odd when you check and see that Sony movies are still available on the 360 Marketplace. :D

[Xerxes]

We're not arguing that some deals stick Xerxes. That is obvious knowledge. We're talking about exclusive deals that don't remain exclusive. A practice that has become more and more common in this industry.

I gave one that stick and I give a few more. They don't all go south. It's not a fact they all go bad.

I'm going to be mad. But I'm not going to flip out just yet. I'll wait until Sony, admits to pulling a dick move. Looks like a dick move, and sounds like a dick move, but who knows.

[JayK47]

It seems Sony is no longer capable of doing any good. And I am no longer capable of purchasing a Sony product. Just a coincidence.

[violent]

Yeah, it just seems odd when you check and see that Sony movies are still available on the 360 Marketplace. :D

Damn. I should turn my 360 on and see that just so my mind could reel for a minute. I'm glad we understand eachother Tele.

[Xerxes]

It seems Sony is no longer capable of doing any good. And I am no longer capable of purchasing a Sony product. Just a coincidence.

Wait. Don't be hasty. Maybe there really is a licensing snafu. Maybe someone at Netflix over looked getting all but one set of licenses for one of the providers boxes.

[violent]

I gave one that stick and I give a few more. They don't all go south. It's not a fact they all go bad.

I'm going to be mad. But I'm not going to flip out just yet. I'll wait until Sony, admits to pulling a dick move. Looks like a dick move, and sounds like a dick move, but who knows.

Look Xerxes, I can look at this situation in 2 completely different ways. The way that I've been talking up until this point and the other way is in complete and utter agreement with you. This looks like a major dick move and it very well may be. Either way I feel though, I will wait until the truth comes out before I select the condemned. If one were to do so now, I really could not argue.

[Deadend]

Violent, your fanboy is showing.

This was an intentional action on Sony's part made to try and hurt Microsoft.

Quit with your talk about how Microsoft is stealing the money, they are not. The rest of your shit isn't even making sense.

Whole thing popping up within 24 hours of the service launch is very odd, as I can't see a plausible explanation for Sony's actions.

[violent]

Violent, your fanboy is showing.

This was an intentional action on Sony's part made to try and hurt Microsoft.

Quit with your talk about how Microsoft is stealing the money, they are not. The rest of your shit isn't even making sense.

Whole thing popping up within 24 hours of the service launch is very odd, as I can't see a plausible explanation for Sony's actions.

Your ignorance on the conversation is the only thing showing. Do me a favor, before you choose to call me out with such idiotic accusations, read my entire conversation with both Xerxes and Telefrog. Enlighten yourself first.

EDIT: Here, let me help:
The only thing I'm disagreeing with is the immediate assumption that this is a dick move. With the little information that has been released, it just seems greatly premature. And for the record, I'm here simply discussing business decision, nothing specific to the 3 companies in question. Seeing as I'm pretty much flying solo at this point, I'd like to explain my intentions.

I would still recommend you read the entire conversation as a lot of angles were covered.

[Telefrog]

Honestly, at this point, I wouldn't be surprised if Sony issued a press release saying something along the lines of, "Only Blu-ray or Cell has the power to display the awesomeness of Sony movies! B3yond!"

[Xerxes]

I've pulled up. I'm going with violent on this and wait. I still think it LOOKS like a dick move. But it might not be. And in that case we can all go eat ice creme sandwiches.

[violent]

I've pulled up. I'm going with violent on this and wait. I still think it LOOKS like a dick move. But it might not be. And in that case we can all go eat ice creme sandwiches.

Flying Saucers from Carvel, on me.

[Murtaug]

Oh everyone pull your panties out of your asses.

From Joystiq (http://www.joystiq.com/2008/11/18/nxe-netflix-streaming-queues-suddenly-gimped/)

Update 2: It appears that the sudden yoinking of Columbia Pictures films from NXE Instant Queue access is a licensing issue with Sony after all. MTV Multiplayer pinged us with word (http://multiplayerblog.mtv.com/2008/11/18/sony-blocks-netflix-360-movies/) that, on the rental service's official blog, Netflix corp. communications VP Steve Swasey writes:

"As watching instantly becomes a more prominent part of the Netflix service, our goal is to have all of our streaming content licensed for all of our partner devices. We're doing well in this area, but it will take some time before we fully achieve that goal. Today, titles regularly come in and out of license and there is a natural ebb and flow to what we have on license at any given point in time. In the case of Xbox 360, a few hundred titles are temporarily unavailable to be streamed via the Xbox game console. Those titles are still available to be watched on subscribers' computers and on TVs via other partner devices, and we hope they'll be licensed for Xbox 360 shortly."

[Variable Gear]

Flying Saucers from Carvel, on me.
Sounds nice. I've never had the pleasure.

[Telefrog]

Oh everyone pull your panties out of your asses.

From Joystiq (http://www.joystiq.com/2008/11/18/nxe-netflix-streaming-queues-suddenly-gimped/)

That's the same statement from before. You can read that either way. It's not like the head of Netflix is going to say what happened behind the scenes. "Sorry Xbox customers! Sony movies will never, ever be available to stream on your device. Oh, well!"

In fact, the very vagueness of it is a ding against it being a purely temporary situation.

[Expugnare]

What if they announce tomorrow that there is a new deal between NetFlix and PSN? Would it still seem like a childish "Fuck you"?

Maybe I am missing something, but that seems completely non sequitur to me. Sony releasing NetFlix streaming would be a good, competitive plan but does not stop the deprivation of 360 owners from being a dick move. Sure it is a one up, but it is not going to stop anyone from being a gold subscriber over just silver. The only person they hurt is themselves by losing the per view profits.

Your argument against Microsoft embargoing Windows from Viaos revolves around the fact that MS would lose profit, but in this situation you throw profit from streaming out the window. Most people who would streaming the movie would not buy the BluRay disc anyway; they would rent it, perhaps through NetFlix, netting Sony the same profit, be it streamed or physically rented, it just changes who pays for it (NetFlix/Microsoft rather than the consumer). When the consumer gets something for free they are more likely to take more of it. Sony still would get paid for each one the consumer takes, increasing profits as opposed to regular rentals. All in all, I see absolutely no reason for Sony to take their movies off except as a retaliation against Microsoft.

Edit: I will concede it could genuinely be a licensing fuck up but in that case the whole argument about money would be out the window.

[Murtaug]

That's the same statement from before. You can read that either way. It's not like the head of Netflix is going to say what happened behind the scenes. "Sorry Xbox customers! Sony movies will never, ever be available to stream on your device. Oh, well!"

In fact, the very vagueness of it is a ding against it being a purely temporary situation.

I did not see that earlier, or I came to the conversation before the update.

I do not see this as Sony pulling a dick move. I kind of see this as Netflix having flipped the switch before their P's and Q's were in order, and they caught it before the NXE went fully live tomorrow. If Sony really wanted to be dicks they would have just pulled their entire catalog.

Hey, maybe they will. Or, maybe in a week Columbia will be back up there, either from Netflix getting the license, or the backlash that will probably come from the gaming community regardless of the reason for this happening.

[TrackZero]

There's gotta be another reason. There's no competition in that sector between the two.

Indeed I'd hope that's the case. Considering MS has the bigger stick of being able to set insane prices on the Blu-ray's video codec, pricing that entire platform out of the market if they want to.

[violent]

Maybe I am missing something, but that seems completely non sequitur to me. Sony releasing NetFlix streaming would be a good, competitive plan but does not stop the deprivation of 360 owners from being a dick move. Sure it is a one up, but it is not going to stop anyone from being a gold subscriber over just silver. The only person they hurt is themselves by losing the per view profits.

In this case, being a dick = sound business move. You can't win them all unfortunately and money is what drives business. An independent contract between Sony and NetFlix could most certainly be beneficial to Sony, hurtful to Microsoft and unchanging to Netflix. In the end, it will still suck for users. Unfortunately again, not really the motivation of business.

Your argument against Microsoft embargoing Windows from Viaos revolves around the fact that MS would lose profit, but in this situation you throw profit from streaming out the window. Most people who would streaming the movie would not buy the BluRay disc anyway; they would rent it, perhaps through NetFlix, netting Sony the same profit, be it streamed or physically rented, it just changes who pays for it (NetFlix/Microsoft rather than the consumer). When the consumer gets something for free they are more likely to take more of it. Sony still would get paid for each one the consumer takes, increasing profits as opposed to regular rentals. All in all, I see absolutely no reason for Sony to take their movies off except as a retaliation against Microsoft.

Microsoft embargoing Windows from Viaos wasn't an idea I supported. It was an example of making moves for the sake of being a dick as was being discussed at that point. Honestly though, so much has been discussed since then anyway that the later parts of the conversation with Xerxes and Telefrog better represent where I currently stand. My whole thing is that sometimes there is business reasoning behind actions we may deem "dickish". Nothing more.

[Xerxes]

Expugnare, we are just going to wait it out. Sony will either say they pulled a dick move and we can be outraged or the movies will come back and we can all eat ice cream sandwiches.

[violent]

Expugnare, we are just going to wait it out. Sony will either say they pulled a dick move and we can be outraged or the movies will come back and we can all eat ice creme sandwiches.

Once again, fantastic idea.

[Telefrog]

Once again, fantastic idea.

Xerxes and his stupid ice cream sandwiches!

I'm eating one now. Thank God, we had some Eskimo Pies in the fridge. :p

Edit: Also, keep in mind Sony previously decided to not participate in OXM HDTV reviews (http://www.oxmonline.com/article/xbox-soapbox/sony-doesnt-want-your-money) because they are the "Official Xbox Magazine" regardless of them not actually being a MS company.

[violent]

Xerxes and his stupid ice cream sandwiches!

I'm eating one now. Thank God, we had some Eskimo Pies in the fridge. :p

Crap. Only thing in my fridge is frozen chicken. Fool me once.

[Shadowstorm]

Crap. Only thing in my fridge is frozen chicken. Fool me once.

It's okay. I've got tons of ice cream in my freezer. We can all share.

[Xerxes]

Xerxes and his stupid ice cream sandwiches!

I'm eating one now. Thank God, we had some Eskimo Pies in the fridge. :p

Edit: Also, keep in mind Sony previously decided to not participate in OXM HDTV reviews (http://www.oxmonline.com/article/xbox-soapbox/sony-doesnt-want-your-money) because they are the "Official Xbox Magazine" regardless of them not actually being a MS company.

I just had a Nestle King Sized Ice Cream Sandwich. :D

[Expugnare]

Microsoft embargoing Windows from Viaos wasn't an idea I supported. It was an example of making moves for the sake of being a dick as was being discussed at that point. Honestly though, so much has been discussed since then anyway that the later parts of the conversation with Xerxes and Telefrog better represent where I currently stand. My whole thing is that sometimes there is business reasoning behind actions we may deem "dickish". Nothing more.

Difference is, Microsoft makes money on Vaio's.
I know you did not support it, because Microsoft had reason to cooperate with a competitor to achieve a profit, even if said competitor also profits. Why is this any different? That was the point I was trying to make. Streaming Sony movies does not directly make Sony lose money; in fact, there is a direct profit. If we are arguing from the prospective that the mighty dollar rules all, the decision makes no sense.

[Restlessavenger]

You can always game the system using PlayOn as well. I'm Netflix streaming Across the Universe on my 360 as we speak.

Take that Sony.
Of course Play On's Netflix quality leaves a bit to be desired.

[violent]

I know you did not support it, because Microsoft had reason to cooperate with a competitor to achieve a profit, even if said competitor also profits. Why is this any different? That was the point I was trying to make. Streaming Sony movies does not directly make Sony lose money; in fact, there is a direct profit. If we are arguing from the prospective that the mighty dollar rules all, the decision makes no sense.

Spongie, in all honesty, I simply don't want to get into the whole thing again. Have faith enough in Xerxes and Tele to know that any question regarding this situation was in one way asked or answered by them and can be found in this thread. In the chance it's something that has not, just open it to the floor. We, with slightly differing opinions reached common ground. I could not expect more from a conversation.

That being said, I'm choosing to wait for the next bit of information to seep through before going through the whole thing again. Hope you understand.

[GunnyMo]

Wow, what a bitch movie Sony. Nice one. Wankers.

[KingGorilla]

"As watching instantly becomes a more prominent part of the Netflix service, our goal is to have all of our streaming content licensed for all of our partner devices. We're doing well in this area, but it will take some time before we fully achieve that goal. Today, titles regularly come in and out of license and there is a natural ebb and flow to what we have on license at any given point in time. In the case of Xbox 360, a few hundred titles are temporarily unavailable to be streamed via the Xbox game console. Those titles are still available to be watched on subscribers' computers and on TVs via other partner devices, and we hope they'll be licensed for Xbox 360 shortly."
As Mike Wilbon would say, gimme some dap.

But this whole thread rather reminds me of that inflammatory bit over at Future Publishing(OXM) over Sony not sending them Bravia screens for review.

[Xerxes]

Wow, what a bitch movie Sony. Nice one. Wankers.

You stop that. :)

Time well tell.

[KingGorilla]

Oh everyone pull your panties out of your asses.

From Joystiq (http://www.joystiq.com/2008/11/18/nxe-netflix-streaming-queues-suddenly-gimped/)

Update 2: It appears that the sudden yoinking of Columbia Pictures films from NXE Instant Queue access is a licensing issue with Sony after all. MTV Multiplayer pinged us with word that, on the rental service's official blog, Netflix corp. communications VP Steve Swasey writes:

"As watching instantly becomes a more prominent part of the Netflix service, our goal is to have all of our streaming content licensed for all of our partner devices. We're doing well in this area, but it will take some time before we fully achieve that goal. Today, titles regularly come in and out of license and there is a natural ebb and flow to what we have on license at any given point in time. In the case of Xbox 360, a few hundred titles are temporarily unavailable to be streamed via the Xbox game console. Those titles are still available to be watched on subscribers' computers and on TVs via other partner devices, and we hope they'll be licensed for Xbox 360 shortly."
Either a Mod or the OP needs to edit that bit into the first post.

[Expugnare]

Spongie, in all honesty, I simply don't want to get into the whole thing again. Have faith enough in Xerxes and Tele to know that any question regarding this situation was in one way asked or answered by them and can be found in this thread. In the chance it's something that has not, just open it to the floor. We, with slightly differing opinions reached common ground. I could not expect more from a conversation.

That being said, I'm choosing to wait for the next bit of information to seep through before going through the whole thing again. Hope you understand.

I did read the whole thread but I didn't see anyone call you out on the fact that your arguments would make sense if it was not a symbiotic relationship here like it is here. You claim to argue from a business perspective but an objective entrepreneur would realize that a competitor does not need to fail for you to succeed. If it is not due to a licensing mishap, logically the decision was made by large to hurt Microsoft rather than seizing an opportunity to allow both companies to turn a larger profit, thus, I feel justified in calling the choice puerile and spiteful without keeping their best interests in mind.

But I shall relent until the next nugget comes forth so that we may truly know the extent to Sony dickishness. In the meantime, I will have a popsicle since I have no ice cream sandwiches.

[Xerxes]

I did read the whole thread but I didn't see anyone call you out on the fact that your arguments would make sense if it was not a symbiotic relationship here like it is here. You claim to argue from a business perspective but an objective entrepreneur would realize that a competitor does not need to fail for you to succeed. If it is not due to a licensing mishap, logically the decision was made by large to hurt Microsoft rather than seizing an opportunity to allow both companies to turn a larger profit, thus, I feel justified in calling the choice puerile and spiteful without keeping their best interests in mind.

But I shall relent until the next nugget comes forth so that we may truly know the extent to Sony dickishness. In the meantime, I will have a popsicle since I have no ice cream sandwiches.

You know what's funny Ex? MS wouldn't be hurt by them taking their movies. It's Sony that's hurt. Netflix might be hurt. MS, could probably case less.

[mister slim]

Wait. Don't be hasty. Maybe there really is a licensing snafu. Maybe someone at Netflix over looked getting all but one set of licenses for one of the providers boxes.

Sounds like someone at Columbia wants more money for streams. Wouldn't surprise me, stream licensing prices are pretty low right now. If it was a Sony-wide decision to hurt the 360 all the Sony movies would be pulled and the Xbox Live Video Marketplace wouldn't have any either.


This was an intentional action on Sony's part made to try and hurt Microsoft.


Eh, no. If Sony wanted to "hurt" MS they have much better ways to go about it.

I know you did not support it, because Microsoft had reason to cooperate with a competitor to achieve a profit, even if said competitor also profits. Why is this any different? That was the point I was trying to make. Streaming Sony movies does not directly make Sony lose money; in fact, there is a direct profit. If we are arguing from the prospective that the mighty dollar rules all, the decision makes no sense.

There's really not much money involved. It's quite possible Sony is losing more in lost sales elsewhere than they are gaining in Netflix licensing. Right now I'm back down to the 1-DVD plan, which is $10 for unlimited streaming and one DVD out at a time. That's not a lot of money to carve out for the studios. I'd estimate it to be the equivalent profit to me buying 1 DVD a month. And that's split up among every studio whose movie I stream over the entire month.

[KingGorilla]

Can we get back to the whole, "this is no one's fault" well other than our fucked up copyright system, of course?

You want to get more up in arms. ABC produced shows on CBS or NBC are being yanked from streaming services, for no reason. You cannot get full episodes of many shows as a consequence. No comment has been made, the pet theory being Disney's exclusivity with iTunes for online distribution(other than their proprietary sites).

[Expugnare]

There's really not much money involved. It's quite possible Sony is losing more in lost sales elsewhere than they are gaining in Netflix licensing. Right now I'm back down to the 1-DVD plan, which is $10 for unlimited streaming and one DVD out at a time. That's not a lot of money to carve out for the studios. I'd estimate it to be the equivalent profit to me buying 1 DVD a month. And that's split up among every studio whose movie I stream over the entire month.

But when Microsoft is paying the bill out of their Live subscriptions rather than the monthly fees of NetFlix, there is a drastic influx of people who will take advantage of this seeing it as free since they had been paying for it all along, people would never have bought or even rented the movie they will be streaming. Microsoft created a huge new market and is paying all for all of them. You presented an argument against streaming altogether that only holds up in a direct payment model such as the current NetFlix subscription, which evidently must be profitable since so many production houses have signed onto it. My issue is that this is specifically targeted at 360 owners because it is a competitors product. It is as silly as not allowing Columbia movies to stream on Samsung screens.

Edit: Most of this argument is invalid because of my ignorance, move along, nothing to see here.

[mister slim]

But when Microsoft is paying the bill out of their Live subscriptions rather than the monthly fees of NetFlix, there is a drastic influx of people who will take advantage of this seeing it as free since they had been paying for it all along, people would never have bought or even rented the movie they will be streaming. Microsoft created a huge new market and is paying all for all of them. You presented an argument against streaming altogether that only holds up in a direct payment model such as the current NetFlix subscription, which evidently must be profitable since so many production houses have signed onto it. My issue is that this is specifically targeted at 360 owners because it is a competitors product. It is as silly as not allowing Columbia movies to stream on Samsung screens.

I thought 360 streaming required a Netflix subscription? I don't think MS is sending any money to Netflix.

[KingGorilla]

You need a Netflix subscription with an Unlimited streaming option, to use this on the Xbox though.

Damn, beat to it.

This is just an extension of Netflix and Microsoft's already close relationship. Netflix uses a MS designed player. Funny thing is that Netflix streaming for Mac(and Linux) is made possible by Silverlight of all things.

[Xerxes]

I thought 360 streaming required a Netflix subscription? I don't think MS is sending any money to Netflix.

The deal is mutually beneficial to MS and Netflix. MS is a fully functioning media box. Another feature to brag about and lure people to getting their system. Netflix get a larger install based in few days for there streaming services. Both MS and Netflix will get a lot of subscribers now. I'm think Netflix will get more than MS will ever see. Sony, well they get paid by those who watch there movies right.

[Expugnare]

I thought 360 streaming required a Netflix subscription? I don't think MS is sending any money to Netflix.

Oh, I had just read that it required a gold XBL account, but upon further investigation, it takes both gold and NetFlix. Well then, scratch that argument, but my others still stand!

[KingGorilla]

You are neither the first nor the last to be confused on if you need a Netflix account for this feature.

[violent]

I did read the whole thread but I didn't see anyone call you out on the fact that your arguments would make sense if it was not a symbiotic relationship here like it is here. You claim to argue from a business perspective but an objective entrepreneur would realize that a competitor does not need to fail for you to succeed. If it is not due to a licensing mishap, logically the decision was made by large to hurt Microsoft rather than seizing an opportunity to allow both companies to turn a larger profit, thus, I feel justified in calling the choice puerile and spiteful without keeping their best interests in mind.

But I shall relent until the next nugget comes forth so that we may truly know the extent to Sony dickishness. In the meantime, I will have a popsicle since I have no ice cream sandwiches.

Sponge. The whole time, everything I've been talking about was in regards to one point. Just because this looks like a straight up dick move does not mean it is. There could be other dealings in the background that may prove otherwise. In the same regard, it could be nothing more than just a dickish move. My point was to not jump the gun. This Viao thing you're hung up on had nothing to do with my point other than exemplify the concept of being a dick. Nothing more. If you found contradiction in that then cool. Unfortunately it has little relevance in the conversation we were actually having. So let me just say thanks for calling me out on that and enjoy your Popsicle. I will be waiting for more facts.

[OrangePulp]

I did read the whole thread but I didn't see anyone call you out on the fact that your arguments would make sense if it was not a symbiotic relationship here like it is here. You claim to argue from a business perspective but an objective entrepreneur would realize that a competitor does not need to fail for you to succeed. If it is not due to a licensing mishap, logically the decision was made by large to hurt Microsoft rather than seizing an opportunity to allow both companies to turn a larger profit, thus, I feel justified in calling the choice puerile and spiteful without keeping their best interests in mind.

Not necessarily true in this case. There's some steep competition between consoles, and making their console look bad can be just as effective as making your console look good. If they end up working something out with netflix, then they can show that you can only stream their movies through their console, which is indeed a point in favor for them. There could indeed be sound business planning behind this move; point is, we don't know whether it is or not yet, so making assumptions isn't logical or objective.

[Dukefrukem]

Class move.

has nothing to do with class. it's all about strategy.

[Norse]

I don't get it. How can they only block the movies from streaming to 360? Isn't the 360 like any other STB they stream to?

[muddi900]

Why does his always happens? Why are us gamers such whiny bitches? The headline, the tags, and the discussion is pure fanboy FUD.

[fitbabits]

Why does his always happens? Why are us gamers such whiny bitches? The headline, the tags, and the discussion is pure fanboy FUD.
Ugh. I didn't notice the Tags until you mentioned them. I've edited them for the sake of humanity.

[Xerxes]

I don't get it. How can they only block the movies from streaming to 360? Isn't the 360 like any other STB they stream to?

Exactly. Maybe they need licensing deals for each providers box. And Columbia's is the only file that got lost in the mail. It looks like a dick move but it's not.

Sorry James. :(
I put the dick move tag in there. I was a little heated.

[DarkDay]

This is crazy, lol...I was in Future shop today had a ps3 in my hands but put it back for some random reason and picked up wall-e and tropic thunder.

Until this is resolved, not supporting Sony.

Not that I needed one, it was going to be a new fun toy with some great games, but considering my 360 and 60 plus games, sorry Sony, you lost a customer. Not like you care.

Unless. Please make it unless.

[Urizen]

I can't blame Sony to be honest. It's their intellectual property, why should they allow it to give depth to the competition's catalog. What this says, is that Sony is impressed with Netflix streaming on NXE and wants to undercut it. Sony has no responsibility to ensure MS consumers get what they want.

I was surprised to learn any film produced under the Sony Pictures banner would have been available on Xbox.

Also, I am feeling better about owning a Roku player.

[DarkDay]

regardless, lost at least one customer for now. Seems underhanded to me, regardless of how many people come with their business logic, guess what, sony and ms cant hear you and they don't care.

It is what it is and this is my small response.

[RandoM51]

I think a few people are overestimating the control Sony has over each division. :) This is most likely just a contractual licensing issue for streaming media. If Netflix coughs up the increased licensing that Columbia wants due to Netflix on 360 then you'll see those movies.

[total]

Netflix uses a MS designed player. Funny thing is that Netflix streaming for Mac(and Linux) is made possible by Silverlight of all things.

Silverlight for Linux (see: moonlight (http://www.mono-project.com/Moonlight)) doesn't exist yet in any usable way, so there is no Netflix streaming yet that I know of. What is even funnier than Silverlight making Netflix usable on Macs? The fact that the $100 Netflix video streaming box (Roku (http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS8633598605.html)) runs Linux for it's OS.

[neutralism]

Griefing at the business layer, I love it. :D

"Netflix not available in your region."

Cockysucker... :mad:

[menage]

I wouldn't allow Vaio's to operate Windows anymore, see how they like that.

[Orca]

I think a few people are overestimating the control Sony has over each division. :) This is most likely just a contractual licensing issue for streaming media. If Netflix coughs up the increased licensing that Columbia wants due to Netflix on 360 then you'll see those movies.

So there's only one company that DIDN'T get it's licensing for the 360 player done and it's Sony? That seems a bit too much of a stretch to be coincidence.

Of course it'd be a poor move by Sony all around as it's only one of their release divisions. Sony Pictures still has movies up, I believe. It's just Columbia that's been pulled.

[Orca]

I wouldn't allow Vaio's to operate Windows anymore, see how they like that.

If they really wanted to hurt them, they'd demand more money for the codecs they control that Blu Ray movies are using :p

[Xerxes]

I think a few people are overestimating the control Sony has over each division. :) This is most likely just a contractual licensing issue for streaming media. If Netflix coughs up the increased licensing that Columbia wants due to Netflix on 360 then you'll see those movies.
I hope so Random. This deal seems like it would bring Netflix a lot more business. Giving a gimped service though is a bruised eye.

regardless, lost at least one customer for now. Seems underhanded to me, regardless of how many people come with their business logic, guess what, sony and ms cant hear you and they don't care.

It is what it is and this is my small response.
Like this guy. Out of principle I want to cancel service. I don't want to be pawn in this game.

You may ask what do I expect. I expect the full netflix service initially given. I really really hope this is a licensing issue.

[Xerxes]

So there's only one company that DIDN'T get it's licensing for the 360 player done and it's Sony? That seems a bit too much of a stretch to be coincidence.

Of course it'd be a poor move by Sony all around as it's only one of their release divisions. Sony Pictures still has movies up, I believe. It's just Columbia that's been pulled.

That's why it seems strange. The parts of the body doesn't know what the head is doing maybe.:confused:

[Orca]

The other thing, of course, is that they WERE up until the day it went live. People have been watching those movies - if there was a licensing issue, it'd have come to light weeks ago.

[mister slim]

The other thing, of course, is that they WERE up until the day it went live. People have been watching those movies - if there was a licensing issue, it'd have come to light weeks ago.

Licensing contracts typically cover a variety of durations, but a year is a fairly common term. Netflix signed most of their streaming contracts a year ago.

[Norse]

Licensing contracts typically cover a variety of durations, but a year is a fairly common term. Netflix signed most of their streaming contracts a year ago.

It has nothing to do with licenses expirering since the movies are still available for streaming to anything but the 360.

[Expugnare]

Licensing contracts typically cover a variety of durations, but a year is a fairly common term. Netflix signed most of their streaming contracts a year ago.

But why would it only expire for the 360?

[bapenguin]

Well this is fucking lame. I moved from Blockbuster Online to Netflix because of the NXE. I loved the streaming stuff, and frankly, the movies available on streaming were already slim pickens. Now this?

Gah.

[MosBen]

Why would people cancel their Netflix service if they're pissed about this? It's not like Netflix is trying to screw them over by not offering movies from Columbia. I don't know that people are right about Sony's motives here, but Sony is clearly the one people should be pissed at, if there's anyone to be pissed at at all. Canceling Neflix hurts Netflix. If you're pissed at Sony, don't buy a PS3, Blu-Ray movies, or other Sony products.

[jeffbax]

I say this again, you are all always so eager to slam Sony, but what about the likelihood that they likely can't offer Netflix streaming on the PS3 because of either Microsoft's DRM or a special clause in the deal?
I wouldn't allow Vaio's to operate Windows anymore, see how they like that.
Anti Trust Much?
If they really wanted to hurt them, they'd demand more money for the codecs they control that Blu Ray movies are using :p
There aren't exactly a dearth of alternative codecs that Blu-Ray can use, and it helps Microsoft more than anyone that they are an option.

MS controls VC1, but not the many other codecs that Blu-Ray can use.

[muddi900]

Ugh. I didn't notice the Tags until you mentioned them. I've edited them for the sake of humanity.

Good! Except that doesn't make this thread any less FUD-tastic.

From what I gathered from the net:

Columbia wants more money for Xbox 360 streaming(probably HD streaming, which is only available on he 360). Other Sony movies are available for the 360.

From what I gathered from the OP*:

Sony is an evil organization that is hell bent on destroying Microsoft. The fact that Sony Pictures and SCEA are 2 seperate divisions of Sony, who have no say in each others affairs is irrelevant, because facts are for losers! We are not losers.





*Exaggeration for humourous effect!

[menage]

I say this again, you are all always so eager to slam Sony, but what about the likelihood that they likely can't offer Netflix streaming on the PS3 because of either Microsoft's DRM or a special clause in the deal?

Anti Trust Much?


Take shit too serious much?

[Telefrog]

Ugh. I didn't notice the Tags until you mentioned them. I've edited them for the sake of humanity.

What? What offensive tags got on here? I used "Sony", "360", "Netflix", and "NXE". Is that offensive?

[Yeti2005]

I don't honestly believe Sony is an evil corporation but I do think this was an intentional move to "hurt" MS. It seems childish and all it's really doing is preventing Columbia Pictures from getting another revenue stream.

[Rune_74]

Its funny when certain people will defend this move like jeffbax(suprise!) or violent. Its pretty classless for sure but not at all surprising this is sony after all.

[Mortis]

If a large % of what I have placed in my instant Q are not available tonight my Netflix account will be closed, period. I am already pissed that I couldn't even activate Netflix on the NXE before work this morning, it was disabled (on the Netflix website) and said to come back in 2 hours.

[JayVe]

That Sony is a classy lady.

[Telefrog]

Has anyone considered that this move is specifically to hurt Netflix rather than Microsoft?

[Goronmon]

I foresee an uptick in torrent activity for movies made by Columbia Pictures.

[Mortis]

List (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Columbia_Pictures_films) of films that may be affected, assuming they were available for streaming.

[fitbabits]

What? What offensive tags got on here? I used "Sony", "360", "Netflix", and "NXE". Is that offensive?
Someone else added a series of profanities.

[Telefrog]

Someone else added a series of profanities.

Nice. Good to see that people can parse disappointing info with their own prejudices.

[JayVe]

If a large % of what I have placed in my instant Q are not available tonight my Netflix account will be closed, period. I am already pissed that I couldn't even activate Netflix on the NXE before work this morning, it was disabled (on the Netflix website) and said to come back in 2 hours.Boy oh boy. That will really show columbia pictures... that they can bully around what is probably the BEST video on demand service, and get away with it.

Think about the big picture before you act on your own interests. You are falling right into a trap.

[KingGorilla]

I know it is fun arguing the wrong thing and all. But Netflix forgot to secure the license with Columbia. That is the only problem. A license that will almost assuredly be approved.

[Telefrog]

I know it is fun arguing the wrong thing and all. But Netflix forgot to secure the license with Columbia. That is the only problem. A license that will almost assuredly be approved.

Will it? Let's see how this plays out. I'd give it a month. If those movies don't become available within a month, then something other than a simple licensing oversight is going on behind the scenes. A month is plenty of time to sort this out if the only thing going on is an innocent renegotiation between Netflix and Columbia.

[Orca]

Licensing contracts typically cover a variety of durations, but a year is a fairly common term. Netflix signed most of their streaming contracts a year ago.

And this happened to expire the DAY that NXE launched, and only for one Sony studio?

Come on, that stretches credibility just a TAD.

[JayVe]

And this happened to expire the DAY that NXE launched, and only for one Sony studio?

Come on, that stretches credibility just a TAD.
And only for the 360 streaming... not for other set-top boxes?

I'm more than a little skeptical of this as well. :cool:

[Telefrog]

And only for the 360 streaming... not for other set-top boxes?

I'm more than a little skeptical of this as well. :cool:

Keep in mind these movies were available to stream on the 360 for people that got the NXE early as well. If it was a case of the Netflix/Columbia licensing agreement not covering the 360 specifically, then Netflix should've flagged them before anyone got to use the NXE at all.

[muddi900]

And this happened to expire the DAY that NXE launched, and only for one Sony studio?

Come on, that stretches credibility just a TAD.

See, I told you facts are for losers!

[Mortis]

Boy oh boy. That will really show columbia pictures... that they can bully around what is probably the BEST video on demand service, and get away with it.

Think about the big picture before you act on your own interests. You are falling right into a trap.

I barely use Netflix for mail movies as is, and not being able to activate a service through the Netflix website has nothing to do with Columbia Pictures. I am also not pleased with the small amount of content of interest to me that is available for instant streaming from all studios/sources via Netflix. What I mentioned (hit this may have on what I have queued) will simply be the straw that broke the camels back.

[Widgetcraft]

Well, I just tried Netflix streaming on NXE... don't worry too much about Sony pulling their content, this shit is unwatchable anyway. I thought that by "streaming" they meant that I'd just be able to download movies, like at the marketplace, and once I had enough of the video I'd be able to start watching. No, they mean that it is actually streaming, and video quality is downgraded until your connection can keep up. What I can watch is actually worse than fullscreened Youtube.

Just another turd on the shit sundae that is NXE.

[MachEnergy]

Well, I just tried Netflix streaming on NXE... don't worry too much about Sony pulling their content, this shit is unwatchable anyway. I thought that by "streaming" they meant that I'd just be able to download movies, like at the marketplace, and once I had enough of the video I'd be able to start watching. No, they mean that it is actually streaming, and video quality is downgraded until your connection can keep up. What I can watch is actually worse than fullscreened Youtube.

Just another turd on the shit sundae that is NXE.

Dude, get FiOS!
i'm just bored

[KingGorilla]

I would not say it is a speed issue from his ISP. I have a 2MB cable connection split a hundred ways, I still get Hi Def streams from Fox, Hulu, and the Netflix Streams just fine.

I wonder if they grossly misunderestimated how many people would use this feature or at least the high amp of week 1 people just experimenting with it. Or if it is just a symptom of the annual holiday slowdowns Live gets.

[Telefrog]

Well, I just tried Netflix streaming on NXE... don't worry too much about Sony pulling their content, this shit is unwatchable anyway. I thought that by "streaming" they meant that I'd just be able to download movies, like at the marketplace, and once I had enough of the video I'd be able to start watching. No, they mean that it is actually streaming, and video quality is downgraded until your connection can keep up. What I can watch is actually worse than fullscreened Youtube.

Just another turd on the shit sundae that is NXE.

Is your connection bad? Netflix streaming works great for me. I just started last night. The resolution and quality is about as good as the On Demand streaming from Comcast for me. Certainly not Blu-ray good, but entirely watchable.

[MachEnergy]

I wonder if they grossly misunderestimated how many people would use this feature or at least the high amp of week 1 people just experimenting with it. Or if it is just a symptom of the annual holiday slowdowns Live gets.

Could be all of the above. I find it hilarious that xbox.com is almost impossible to get on right now. This goes back to the COD4 map pack release choking XBL.....or most MMORPG's launch days. Nobody ever seems ready.

[Norse]

I wonder if they grossly misunderestimated how many people would use this feature or at least the high amp of week 1 people just experimenting with it. Or if it is just a symptom of the annual holiday slowdowns Live gets.

I'm pretty sure the Netflix streams doesn't go through Live! servers, so slowdown on Live doesn't result in slow streams I believe. Netflix are probably experiencing a huge peak in demand today as a result of the update, but it'll go down in the next few days.

[TheFlyingOrc]

Is your connection bad? Netflix streaming works great for me. I just started last night. The resolution and quality is about as good as the On Demand streaming from Comcast for me. Certainly not Blu-ray good, but entirely watchable.

Mine's hideous, but I have Road Runner's cheapest available service. I do wish I could pick a higher resolution and give it time to buffer, though.

[KingGorilla]

I'm pretty sure the Netflix streams doesn't go through Live! servers, so slowdown on Live doesn't result in slow streams I believe. Netflix are probably experiencing a huge peak in demand today as a result of the update, but it'll go down in the next few days.

My thing is that this is just part of the pattern. Other major service providers like Valve and Blizzard have learned to not roll out a huge patch/update at the same time as a major release. Steam community went live months ahead of Orange Box, Wow added the Wrath character content last month. How many more of these will it take to get some more forethought on Microsoft's part?

[TheFlyingOrc]

My thing is that this is just part of the pattern. Other major service providers like Valve and Blizzard have learned to not roll out a huge patch/update at the same time as a major release. Steam community went live months ahead of Orange Box, Wow added the Wrath character content last month. How many more of these will it take to get some more forethought on Microsoft's part?

What? The day they released the Netflix service, this would have happened. It has nothing to do with the NXE.

[KingGorilla]

This is a part, a major part, of the NXE features, no?

[Xerxes]

Why would people cancel their Netflix service if they're pissed about this? It's not like Netflix is trying to screw them over by not offering movies from Columbia. I don't know that people are right about Sony's motives here, but Sony is clearly the one people should be pissed at, if there's anyone to be pissed at at all. Canceling Neflix hurts Netflix. If you're pissed at Sony, don't buy a PS3, Blu-Ray movies, or other Sony products.

And in turn Netflix should hurt Sony. Like I said, Sony should be paid less for limiting Netflix service or pity reasons. If this really is a dick move.

[TheFlyingOrc]

This is a part, a major part, of the NXE features, no?

I think you need to restate what you said, because I'm really confused as to what you're driving toward.

[KingGorilla]

That by releasing a major content update, at the time of year where they have heavier traffic, so heavy it cannot cope in this case, is a recipe for many more problems. It also casts a magnifying glass as more people experience these problems.

You have for this month the influx of a few million people taking Gears online, the people with new consoles of new games using Gold Trials, all vying for the same patch. In addition to all of the regular traffic.
All of this rather easily predictable, and why most other companies will release these sorts of updates during off times. To divert assets from one area to another, and to better support any issues. Windows Service packs are released in the Spring, Steam community was several months ahead of Orange Box.

Microsoft added a cluster fuck to their usual cluster fuck of new consoles and new trial gold members. That is what I was getting at. NXE as a huge update has no business being released at the busiest time of year. No other company, and Microsoft with Windows would never do such a thing.

[Xerxes]

I don't honestly believe Sony is an evil corporation but I do think this was an intentional move to "hurt" MS. It seems childish and all it's really doing is preventing Columbia Pictures from getting another revenue stream.
This move hurt Netflix more than MS I think.
Someone else added a series of profanities.
Dick move isn't profanity. :p
Boy oh boy. That will really show columbia pictures... that they can bully around what is probably the BEST video on demand service, and get away with it.

Think about the big picture before you act on your own interests. You are falling right into a trap.
It's about not being a pawn in keep away. It's the principle of the matter. You pay Netflix for the full service and they can't deliver. Now if Netflix took all of Columbia movies off streaming effecting Columbia's Netflix revenue, I'd be happy. Then I'd know my 360 is getting the same services as computers and Roku boxes.
I know it is fun arguing the wrong thing and all. But Netflix forgot to secure the license with Columbia. That is the only problem. A license that will almost assuredly be approved.
KG I'm trying to remain as positive as you. I mean it has to be a coincident.

Is your connection bad? Netflix streaming works great for me. I just started last night. The resolution and quality is about as good as the On Demand streaming from Comcast for me. Certainly not Blu-ray good, but entirely watchable.
Not to mention they don't tell you what movies have HD verisons. You can't choose them it you want to at that. I wonder if it's for folks with FioS and U-Verse.

[Telefrog]

Microsoft added a cluster fuck to their usual cluster fuck of new consoles and new trial gold members. That is what I was getting at. NXE as a huge update has no business being released at the busiest time of year. No other company, and Microsoft with Windows would never do such a thing.

But isn't the Netflix streaming issue a problem on their part rather than Microsoft's? The NXE seems to be going fine on their end.

[Goronmon]

That is what I was getting at. NXE as a huge update has no business being released at the busiest time of year. No other company, and Microsoft with Windows would never do such a thing.It has plenty of business being released at this time of the year. Better to get it in before the holiday season where the Live service usually hits it's worst period as people playing their Christmas gifts load up the servers like crazy.

I see no significant reason why MS should sit on this update for 6 months because publishers are releasing a lot of decent games around the same time.

[Orca]

My thing is that this is just part of the pattern. Other major service providers like Valve and Blizzard have learned to not roll out a huge patch/update at the same time as a major release. Steam community went live months ahead of Orange Box, Wow added the Wrath character content last month. How many more of these will it take to get some more forethought on Microsoft's part?

You're really trying hard to turn this into a "Microsoft is bad" thread, huh?

[TheFlyingOrc]

Microsoft added a cluster fuck to their usual cluster fuck of new consoles and new trial gold members. That is what I was getting at. NXE as a huge update has no business being released at the busiest time of year. No other company, and Microsoft with Windows would never do such a thing.
K, but that has nothing to do with Netflix being slow. Netflix would be slow if they released the Netflix server at any time of the year for several days. Should be better by next week.

[JayVe]

It's about not being a pawn in keep away. It's the principle of the matter. You pay Netflix for the full service and they can't deliver. Now if Netflix took all of Columbia movies off streaming effecting Columbia's Netflix revenue, I'd be happy. Then I'd know my 360 is getting the same services as computers and Roku boxes.

Your 360 ISN'T getting the same service as PCs or Roku boxes... the 360 is the only system that streams in HD. Neither the PC or Roku do that.

[TheFlyingOrc]

Your 360 ISN'T getting the same service as PCs or Roku boxes... the 360 is the only system that streams in HD. Neither the PC or Roku do that.
This also happened TODAY. Haven't I heard people say you could stream Columbia movies for the first few hours the service was out? Netflix just hasn't had time to respond to this issue.

[Xerxes]

Your 360 ISN'T getting the same service as PCs or Roku boxes... the 360 is the only system that streams in HD. Neither the PC or Roku do that.

You got me. That's a good one. I haven't seen anyone confirm seeing HD streaming yet but it is indeed supposed to be there. In return, I'd like to add Roku says they'll be in HD by the end of the month.

[Telefrog]

You got me. That's a good one. I haven't seen anyone confirm seeing HD streaming yet but it is indeed supposed to be there. In return, I'd like to add Roku says they'll be in HD by the end of the month.

Not all movies on Netflix streaming are offered in HD on the 360. In fact, most of them aren't. This seems like a non-issue.

[KingGorilla]

K, but that has nothing to do with Netflix being slow. Netflix would be slow if they released the Netflix server at any time of the year for several days. Should be better by next week.

I got onto a side thread about speed and video quality, that was all. I spun it a bit into a querry of why the Live team rolls out a huge update, featuring a robust and bandwidth intensive feature like Netflix streaming at the time when they are most crippled by traffic volume. Generally you stagger things out, so a major release is not at the same time as a major product release at the same time as a large influx of active users.

[cawblen]

no surprise here...moving on...

[torrefaction]

Well, I just tried Netflix streaming on NXE... don't worry too much about Sony pulling their content, this shit is unwatchable anyway. I thought that by "streaming" they meant that I'd just be able to download movies, like at the marketplace, and once I had enough of the video I'd be able to start watching. No, they mean that it is actually streaming, and video quality is downgraded until your connection can keep up. What I can watch is actually worse than fullscreened Youtube.

Just another turd on the shit sundae that is NXE.

HAHAHAHAHAHA.

No. Seriously. Get a real internet connection. I have DSL, and get DVD quality streams...and the HD works as well. Your post comes across as really uninformed.

[torrefaction]

Is your connection bad? Netflix streaming works great for me. I just started last night. The resolution and quality is about as good as the On Demand streaming from Comcast for me. Certainly not Blu-ray good, but entirely watchable.

Even the HD content? Because mine is very near HD quality.

[MosBen]

Well, I just got the NXE, played around with my Avatar, watched a documentary and a 30 Rock episode, and played around with the dashboard some more. Overall I had a very pleasant experience. The documentary played flawlessly for me, though admittedly the resolution wasn't amazing, but it was certainly good enough that I didn't really think about it. Once during the 30 Rock episode, which they said was broadcast in HD but I'm not a good enough eye to know by sight, the episode dropped to an Xbox screen while (I'm guessing) they re-buffered. Otherwise though, I'm very please with the NXE and the Netflix service in general.

[Xerxes]

Even the HD content? Because mine is very near HD quality.

TORRE!

I've watched about 4 movies. All of them were pretty much DVD quality. I think my TV has a issue sizing the movies once in 16:9 mode, but that's life. Also, Dan in real life is pretty good.

[DeathtollWRX]

I have a cable connection at 10mbps down and 1mbps up. I must say I am very happy with the HD quality I saw Heroes in tonight. It's unfortunate that I have a launch Xbox and only component cables but I was VERY pleased with how good Heroes episode looked. If MS markets this new functionality it should really help them push hardware sales through the roof. I'm sure there will be a boat load of improvements. Hopefully one of them will be able to queue your streaming movies without having to select them on the Mac first.

[Xerxes]

I just found the HD section of movies and shows. I might check it out tonight.

[pseudopseudo]

I watched a few episodes of The Office UK last night and an HD movie tonight, and I've had nothing but an awesome experience with Netflix on the NXE. The picture quality is excellent, and there was barely a wait to get the movie started.

I thought it'd be a little iffy, since I use the wireless adapter, but I didn't notice a single stutter in playback, or a temporary downgrade in picture quality... or anything.

It's hard for me to imagine that you'd get horrible picture quality unless you're running near dial-up speed internet. Seriously.

And as for the OP - even if it is a dick move, Netflix isn't going to suffer much. For any customers they might possibly lose by not having Columbia's content for Xbox streaming, they'll just be replaced (and then some) by people who'll sign up for Netflix because of the Xbox streaming.

It seems par for the course really, and nothing to get too upset about. Even without the Columbia content, I already have more stuff to watch on my instant queue than I'll probably be able to watch in one year.

[Wolvie]

Wow, Sony eliminates an avenue of making money on a competitors console? What a retarded move. Talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face.

[MachEnergy]

It's unfortunate that I have a launch Xbox and only component cables but I was VERY pleased with how good Heroes episode looked.

FYI, there's nothing unfortunate about using component cables.
http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/09/13/hdmi-vs-component/

HDMI is nice for how tidy it makes the cabling behind the TV, but as for quality, you wouldn't notice a difference.

[Mortis]

The HD quality is acceptable, it is not as good as what I get on my Dish DVR but it is much better than the non HD streams, which are quite poor. Granted I am spoiled because 99% of what I watch is HD. They need to implement a way to identify the HD content on the website and on the 360, I probably won't be watching any non HD stuff unless I really want to see it without waiting for a DVD.

[LarsenNET]

The HD quality is acceptable, it is not as good as what I get on my Dish DVR but it is much better than the non HD streams, which are quite poor. Granted I am spoiled because 99% of what I watch is HD. They need to implement a way to identify the HD content on the website and on the 360, I probably won't be watching any non HD stuff unless I really want to see it without waiting for a DVD.

You can identify it. Click "Watch Instantly" then click "Genres" then "HD".

The selection is really limited. I could not get the HD stream to play for more than 10 seconds. It would drop it down to SD which is unwatchable. I'm hoping that it was server load that will get better soon. I have 6MB down Comcast.

[torrefaction]

You can identify it. Click "Watch Instantly" then click "Genres" then "HD".

The selection is really limited. I could not get the HD stream to play for more than 10 seconds. It would drop it down to SD which is unwatchable. I'm hoping that it was server load that will get better soon. I have 6MB down Comcast.

As an FYI, I watched a decent amount of HD content. The only time it downgraded me was when I had some downloads kicking. This actually made me happy, because rather than a poor experience, it dynamically adjusted. That's just good engineering.

[Mortis]

You can identify it. Click "Watch Instantly" then click "Genres" then "HD".

The selection is really limited. I could not get the HD stream to play for more than 10 seconds. It would drop it down to SD which is unwatchable. I'm hoping that it was server load that will get better soon. I have 6MB down Comcast.

Thanks I hadn't noticed that, The Thing does not show in that list though and it is HD. Not perfect but better than nothing.

Edit: Figured out why The Thing was missing, I had to include rated and seen movies.

[Xerxes]

You can identify it. Click "Watch Instantly" then click "Genres" then "HD".

The selection is really limited. I could not get the HD stream to play for more than 10 seconds. It would drop it down to SD which is unwatchable. I'm hoping that it was server load that will get better soon. I have 6MB down Comcast.

SD is unwatchable? :confused:

[JayVe]

SD is unwatchable? :confused:To some I suppose.

We watch NetFlix streamin' on a PC all the time, and throw it up on the 1080p 42" LCD, or on the 78" projector screen. It always looks fine to me, but personally I'm much more interested in the content, not the pixels.

Documentaries on the Myan Language, or old episodes of Voltron don't get much better in HD. In fact, I'm of the mind that if you NEED HD in order to enjoy what you are watching... then you are watching the wrong things.

[Xerxes]

To some I suppose.

We watch NetFlix streamin' on a PC all the time, and throw it up on the 1080p 42" LCD, or on the 78" projector screen. It always looks fine to me, but personally I'm much more interested in the content, not the pixels.

Documentaries on the Myan Language, or old episodes of Voltron don't get much better in HD. In fact, I'm of the mind that if you NEED HD in order to enjoy what you are watching... then you are watching the wrong things.

That's what I was thinking. I didn't try and episode of Heroes or anything too fantastic.

[violent]

Most of them are back up. (http://kotaku.com/5099053/sony-movies-now-available-on-360s-netflix)

[Disgustipated]

I got onto a side thread about speed and video quality, that was all. I spun it a bit into a querry of why the Live team rolls out a huge update, featuring a robust and bandwidth intensive feature like Netflix streaming at the time when they are most crippled by traffic volume. Generally you stagger things out, so a major release is not at the same time as a major product release at the same time as a large influx of active users.

Your ignorance is showing, as usual. Bandwidth issues are on Netflix's end, not Microsoft's. Stop throwing your idiotic anti-MS crusade into the mix. It's really fucking annoying.