Joe Paterno Dead

[fitbabits]

Joe Paterno Jr., whose glittering career as Penn State's football coach was tainted by a child sex-abuse scandal, died today. He was 85.

"It is with great sadness that we announce that Joe Paterno passed away earlier today. His loss leaves a void in our lives that will never be filled," Paterno's family said in a statement.

Paterno coached the Nittany Lions for 46 years and in 2011 became the winningest coach in Division 1 football. But before the season was over, he was abruptly dismissed as the sex scandal involving former assistant Jerry Sandusky suggested that top school officials had ignored signs of Sandusky's alleged predatory behavior.

Shortly after his dismissal, Paterno was diagnosed with lung cancer and broke his hip.Source - Yahoo! News (http://news.yahoo.com/ex-penn-state-coach-joe-paterno-dead-85-152611266--abc-news.html)

[Orca]

A year ago I'd have thought this was sad. Now, not so much.

[Blue]

I still think it's sad.

[J Arcane]

No he's not. (http://news.yahoo.com/psu-editor-quits-erroneous-paterno-report-065410058--spt.html)

[carnage11]

I had heard that he was still alive.

[Spectre-7]

Well, now it's hilarious.

[maharahaj]

No he's not. (http://news.yahoo.com/psu-editor-quits-erroneous-paterno-report-065410058--spt.html)

He is now. The family has issued a statement confirming his death earlier this morning (as opposed to yesterday when a false report was issued).

[Vanthar]

Yeah they jumped the gun last night, but he did pass away a few hours later.

[maharahaj]

A client of mine was on PSU's football team during the late 90's. He was really torn up over the whole firing/scandal part a few months back; I wonder how he's taking the news of Joe's death right now.

[fitbabits]

No he's not. (http://news.yahoo.com/psu-editor-quits-erroneous-paterno-report-065410058--spt.html)
He was officially off this mortal coil when I posted the news.

[Camel]

It is hard to describe the impact of Paterno's death to people who didn't grow up with ties to Penn State. The man was an institution, and almost seemed mythical at times. Plus, he and my grandma look really similar (which cracks me up).

The way his career ended was awful, although completely justified. It's hard for me to look past such the huge lapse in judgement he showed, but it's equally as hard to completely discount over 60 years of contributions towards the Penn State community. JoePa will definitely be missed by many, myself included.

[rein]

I was heartbroken when I read the news this morning. It is tragic the way his career and life ended.

[TheFlyingOrc]

Man, you sweep just one child rapist under the rug and it's like your entire reputation is tainted!

[Blue]

I agree that we should all be judged solely by our mistakes.

[Laughing Penguin]

I agree that we should all be judged solely by our mistakes.

If that 'mistake' involves shielding a child molester... then yes, maybe we should.

[rein]

If that 'mistake' involves shielding a child molester... then yes, maybe we should.

He didn't exactly shield Sandusky. He took what he knew to people he trusted. Should he have done more? Yes, with hindsight it's easy to make that choice. It's not like the information was buried, it was turned over to campus police and even the Prosecuting Attorney involved back then didn't file charges. Regardless, the man did more good in his life then I will ever live up to and using his death announcement as a time to pile on is in poor taste as far as I am concerned.

[Laughing Penguin]

He didn't exactly shield Sandusky. He took what he knew to people he trusted. Should he have done more? Yes, with hindsight it's easy to make that choice. It's not like the information was buried, it was turned over to campus police and even the Prosecuting Attorney involved back then didn't file charges. Regardless, the man did more good in his life then I will ever live up to and using his death announcement as a time to pile on is in poor taste as far as I am concerned.

Well, i'll admit to not really being very familiar with the man's history until recently, but what good did he do outside of football? Because all I've ever heard was his status in connection with a game, and that doesn't really matter to me at all when he's complicit in a series of child molestations. The fact that the local authorities also helped keep it quiet out of reverence to that game doesn't make it any better... So, what am I missing here?

[Pale Ale]

He was officially off this mortal coil when I posted the news.

Man somebody else died just like that

Press: So I hear your dad croaked?
Son: Oh no dad's sick but still kicking.

*Dad croaks in the night *

Son: Ok run the obit.


Also sympathy vs a sound beating seams to have a profound generation gap.

[Stmfuller]

I was going to say something classless, but I think there's been enough of that

[Entropy]

If that 'mistake' involves shielding a child molester... then yes, maybe we should.

Interesting that you think "shielding a child molester" involves reporting them to the head of the school.

[Ravenlock]

In 8 years of living in State College I probably attended all of 5 football games, so I certainly didn't have any serious affection for PSU football.

That said, outside of the game, JoePa was a community hero. It's easy to dismiss him as "just a football coach", but he cared just as much about his players getting an education as he did about them playing a game, and he made sure they did well in class and graduated on time. He raised and donated millions of dollars to educational departments and campus libraries. And regardless of how little I might care about football, there's no question that the success of the program under his tenure brought huge amounts of money and attention to the university, which benefited the programs and people I did care about. He loved the town, and they loved him back.

Whether he did "enough" about Sandusky or not, I have no idea. My inclination is to say "no", since obviously child molestation is one of the worst things humans can do to each other and Sandusky remained untouched for years. But McQueary testified that he was not specific in telling Paterno what he had witnessed (which is to say Paterno probably had no idea rape had occurred), and Paterno did tell both his superiors and the head of the University Police.

It's a tragic way for a man's life to end, regardless. At 85 years old it's no stretch to say this whole affair played a huge part in killing him, and ironically I suspect that posthumously, very little bad will be said about him in the end.

[Laughing Penguin]

Interesting that you think "shielding a child molester" involves reporting them to the head of the school.

Also interesting that you think that mentioning it to people with a vested interest in covering up and then just shrugging it off for many years is somehow OK.

We're not talking about ignoring some parking tickets here, we're talking about having knowledge of a child molester and just sort of letting it slide for the better part of a decade because it might look bad for your bosses. I feel the head of the school was ALSO very wrong in this and should be brought to task for this, but that doesn't make it somehow alright that Paterno just looked away for all those years "for the good of the school".

He kept quiet about a child molester. He could easily have made a small amount of effort to do something about it. I don't care how precious he is to the Penn State community, that is really inexcusable. If his superiors didn't act on it, he had a real responsibility to escalate it to someone who would. But he chose not to, because it might make his football look bad. No excuse.

[rein]

The scandal is a hot topic and one of those things that is probably not worth discussing on the internet because too many people have already formed their opinion based on headlines and what they've read on message boards. I have read most of the grand jury report and based on all the facts at the grand jury's disposal Paterno did nothing wrong. The PA State Attorney General said as much.

It's easy to look back and say he should have done more with current circumstances, he even said so himself, but even in the worst light not doing enough is a big difference then doing nothing or covering it up. Many people paint the facts as if Paterno was the eye witness to what happened. He was given a second hand account of what was witnessed by an grad assistant. The grad assistant that did nothing to stop the event and did not go to the police himself, yet, he gets a pass because dragging his name through the mud doesn't have the same appeal by those that want to point a sanctimonious finger.

Coach Joe Paterno is not the evil villain in this story. Mike McQueary is not the evil villain in this story. The evil villain in this story is Jerry Sandusky. Period.

[Entropy]

Also interesting that you think that mentioning it to people with a vested interest in covering up and then just shrugging it off for many years is somehow OK. .

What's actually interesting is that you've constructed a strawman with Down Syndrome :p

[Laughing Penguin]

It's easy to look back and say he should have done more with current circumstances, he even said so himself, but even in the worst light not doing enough is a big difference then doing nothing or covering it up. Many people paint the facts as if Paterno was the eye witness to what happened. He was given a second hand account of what was witnessed by an grad assistant. The grad assistant that did nothing to stop the event and did not go to the police himself, yet, he gets a pass because dragging his name through the mud doesn't have the same appeal by those that want to point a sanctimonious finger.

Coach Joe Paterno is not the evil villain in this story. Mike McQueary is not the evil villain in this story. The evil villain in this story is Jerry Sandusky. Period.

I will agree on some things: Paterno is getting scapegoated to a certain degree based on his fame. The grad student should be getting dragged through the mud... literally and figuratively. The true villain really is Sandusky. All of these things are absolutely true.

The thing is, it still doesn't negate the complacency by this public figure, and his willingness to basically keep quiet to protect the school. I also can't shake the feeling that if Paterno weren't so idolized, we wouldn't be having this discussion. If he were just some regular guy in any other institution, there would be a huge line to bring him some accountability, but because he was such an icon to college football, there's a lot of willingness to just give him a pass.

I think that double standard is what chafes with me most of all. If we took the same story and replaced Penn State with "Church" and Paterno with "Bishop" and told basically the same story (that he had evidence of multiple abuse cases and basically sat on it for 10 years) then people would be happy to form a lynch mob. Who cares what good that church may have done for the community, such behavior would be unacceptable (and rightly so) But because this is Football in a town very invested in Football, it shouldn't be viewed as something to be made a big deal of. But then, i'm more of a hockey guy, so what do I know, right?

[Uatu]

His actions (or lack there of) fed into a skewed culture where the simple pastime of football is more important than protecting human beings.

Villain? Possibly not. Jack ass? Definitely, and no amount of Ws next to his name is going to change that. He and more than likely a chunk of the school staff deserve this final legacy because they all were vital in it's existence.

[rein]

I will agree on some things: Paterno is getting scapegoated to a certain degree based on his fame. The grad student should be getting dragged through the mud... literally and figuratively. The true villain really is Sandusky. All of these things are absolutely true.

The thing is, it still doesn't negate the complacency by this public figure, and his willingness to basically keep quiet to protect the school. I also can't shake the feeling that if Paterno weren't so idolized, we wouldn't be having this discussion. If he were just some regular guy in any other institution, there would be a huge line to bring him some accountability, but because he was such an icon to college football, there's a lot of willingness to just give him a pass.

I think that double standard is what chafes with me most of all. If we took the same story and replaced Penn State with "Church" and Paterno with "Bishop" and told basically the same story (that he had evidence of multiple abuse cases and basically sat on it for 10 years) then people would be happy to form a lynch mob. Who cares what good that church may have done for the community, such behavior would be unacceptable (and rightly so) But because this is Football in a town very invested in Football, it shouldn't be viewed as something to be made a big deal of. But then, i'm more of a hockey guy, so what do I know, right?I'm not picking on you LP but this is why this topic is hard to discuss. You're making a claim that Paterno knew of multiple abuse cases and sat on them for 10 years. Going by the cases in the Grand Jury report and the few facts that we know that is an inaccurate accusation to say the least.

Everyone assumes that Paterno was given details about the shower incident. We simply do not know that. What we do know is that the Grand Jury did not charge Paterno with perjury even though he claimed McQueery did not tell him specifics like anal rape. What does that mean? McQueery had to also testify that he did not give Paterno those details. So, what exactly did Paterno know?

The 1988 shower case in which the victim was soaped up and washed by Sandusky was reported by a parent. No adult witness and not reported to Paterno.

Four of the victims claimed incidents happened at Sandusky's house in the basement. No way Paterno knew about those.

A janitor reported an incident to his supervisor who did not report it to anyone else. Again, how is Paterno covering up something he doesn't know about?

I think there was also an incident with a wrestling high school coach witnessing some suspicious behavior. Again, has nothing to do with Paterno.

I have no connection to Penn State. I'm not some sort of football fanatic that believes sport heroes can do no wrong. What I do feel is that this was a tragedy and many people failed along the way including some of the parents by allowing their children to have sleepovers with an adult that is not some how connected to the family. The other thing, and this has more to do with sport message boards I frequent, is the announcement of the mans death is not the time or place to pile on the accusations.

[Uatu]

I think that double standard is what chafes with me most of all. If we took the same story and replaced Penn State with "Church" and Paterno with "Bishop" and told basically the same story (that he had evidence of multiple abuse cases and basically sat on it for 10 years) then people would be happy to form a lynch mob. Who cares what good that church may have done for the community, such behavior would be unacceptable (and rightly so) But because this is Football in a town very invested in Football, it shouldn't be viewed as something to be made a big deal of. But then, i'm more of a hockey guy, so what do I know, right?

This is a great comparison.

[Ravenlock]

Both rein and I have now pointed out - rein, repeatedly - that the facts of the case as they're publicly available don't actually demonstrate that Paterno knew that child molestation had occurred, and flat-out contradict the idea that he thought rape had occurred.

It seems equally believable that he heard a vague eyewitness account of Sandusky being "inappropriate" around a kid in the locker room, reported it to the people he thought needed to know, and assumed (incorrectly) that they followed up on it. Would that be negligent? Arguably. Depends on what McQueary told him, which we don't know.

I'm confused as to why this appears to not be noticed by the people who wish to pillory him.

[Orca]

Oh come on, if you don't like people being critical of the Penn State scandal you can always look the other way and ignore it, pretend it's not happening.

:p

[Vanthar]

Both rein and I have now pointed out - rein, repeatedly - that the facts of the case as they're publicly available don't actually demonstrate that Paterno knew that child molestation had occurred, and flat-out contradict the idea that he thought rape had occurred.

It seems equally believable that he heard a vague eyewitness account of Sandusky being "inappropriate" around a kid in the locker room, reported it to the people he thought needed to know, and assumed (incorrectly) that they followed up on it. Would that be negligent? Arguably. Depends on what McQueary told him, which we don't know.

I'm confused as to why this appears to not be noticed by the people who wish to pillory him.

So someone tells you they saw a coach being 'inappropriate' around a kid and you don't question this further? Come on that's definitely negligent. I'll give benefit of the doubt that McQueary downplayed the incident to Paterno as seems to be the case in the grand jury report, but there has to be some accountability to investigate inappropriate behavior of people on your staff more than just passing the buck upstairs. This is doubly true when the inappropriate behavior is with a young child.

I respect all the good JoePa did for the community and am not trying to vilify him, but his error in judgement appears to be an egregious one.

[Stmfuller]

Heard this at work yesterday:
"Did you know that JoePa actually died the night before?"
"Ya, it turns out that the doctors wanted to wait until the next day to say something to their superiors".

This joke is rated:
#tacky
#classless

[Pale Ale]

I'm confused as to why this appears to not be noticed by the people who wish to pillory him.

Sandusky resigned in the wake of a DA investigation into inappropriate conduct. Three years later Paterno is told of another incident, a more violent one, his tepid response for man who has so much pull and power in his community almost defies belief.

[Ravenlock]

Oh come on, if you don't like people being critical of the Penn State scandal you can always look the other way and ignore it, pretend it's not happening.

:p

Alright, that's pretty good. Bravo. ;)

So someone tells you they saw a coach being 'inappropriate' around a kid and you don't question this further? Come on that's definitely negligent. I'll give benefit of the doubt that McQueary downplayed the incident to Paterno as seems to be the case in the grand jury report, but there has to be some accountability to investigate inappropriate behavior of people on your staff more than just passing the buck upstairs. This is doubly true when the inappropriate behavior is with a young child.

I respect all the good JoePa did for the community and am not trying to vilify him, but his error in judgement appears to be an egregious one.

I have no problem labeling it an egregious error. It certainly appears to have been one. But people can make those, when they don't want to believe something. I find it just as easy to believe that he downplayed it in his own mind because he didn't want to think one of his guys could be such a lowlife, as I do that he was trying to participate in a cover up. Neither speaks well of him, but I think people are attributing a level of evil and malice to him that isn't indicated by the facts or anything else we know about the man.

[Uatu]

Well I have a few jokes now for Friday night beers.