[Episode 55] The 2011 IMmies and the Giveaway Giveaway

[Ravenlock]

http://image.colonyofgamers.com/imcast.png (http://www.immortalmachines.com/)

Well, here we are at the beginning of 2012. I know it crept up on me unexpectedly, but in one respect we are prepared: a ton of PC games came out in 2011, and as we are wont to do, we’ve gathered around the yuletide fire to praise and pillory them as we feel is deserved.

As was the case last year, this is one of our longer shows, and even with the excessive runtime I know we didn’t give everything the credit it deserves. That, dear listener, is where you come in. We’re running another IMmies Giveaway Giveaway this year, and here’s how it works. You either e-mail us (podcast@immortalmachines.com) or post here in the thread, and tell us what your favorite PC games of 2011 were and why. We’ll pick one of you at random, and you’ll be able to gift one of your favorites to somebody else on our dime. You look like a hero, somebody gets to play a great game, everybody wins. So get on that, and we’ll announce our winner in the next episode.

So let’s dig in. There’s a lot to talk about. Without further ado, welcome to The IMmies 2011 (http://www.immortalmachines.com/?p=734)!

Hosted and Summarized by Eric [Ravenlock]
Participants are James [Vigil80], Roberts [Trebor] and Chris [JPublic]
Produced by Clayton [Voodoo]

(Have you followed our Twitter feed (http://twitter.com/immortalmachine)? That’s a thing you could do.)

Direct Download (http://www.immortalmachines.com/public/podcast/IMmies2011.mp3)

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[nabokovfan87]

I listened to the podcast tuesday, so apologies if what I say is a little off. I'm going off of memory.

From what I recall you guys liked dead space 2, bf3, skyrim, DE:HR and a few others.

I just wanted to mention that particularly for indie games, particularly for PC indie games, you have to keep in mind that the vast majority of gamers don't care if something is made by 500 people or 10. I think for next year you have to have the indie games just as any other genre. I don't see how you can talk about Deus Ex I don't see how you can't mention E.Y.E. in the same breath.

As far as BF3, I wouldn't call making something worse then the sequel "most important game of 2011" or whichever verbage was used. I would consider BF3 an extreme dissapointment based on its gameplay and other factors (SP, scopes, origin, etc.) just lots of stupid design decisions. I get the feeling that for a lot of the podcast personal viewpoints were discussed moreso then relevant one just because of limited playtime and so forth. I heard a lot of "I didn't play it, so I couldn't say" or "I don't play shooters, so..." from what I recall.

I'm not trying to slag you guys off or make you feel bad, but I heard the same thing from GB a few times and it irked me. Games that deserved press got overlooked because they didn't know or play it, particularly witcher 2 over on GB.

Now, skyrim... it is a tricky beast to tackle, but for most people on the net, timesync shouldn't indicate top 10. I think it is a fine game, but I think as an RPG witcher does it better, a lot of games do it better, and the main thing that makes skyrim interesting is the level up stuff and being released at the right time to get the mention. A LOT of people have been playing skyrim from November thru December. The rose tinted glasses haven't worn off, and I am sure a lot of people really enjoy it, but it has a lot of issues that are very easily being tossed aside.

Lastly, I think DE:HR is good, maybe even better then good, but I think the game has some quirks. The upgrade systems just aren't utilized enough (not enough points, too many ways to do everything), the gun upgrades are either too often (lasers) or not enough (everything else) in terms of availability. I think the level design is extremely simple, and the "world" of DE is laid out poorly (Tokyo?). I get that it looks nice, I understand it's heritage, but in all reality getting to the ending, and having the ending be decided moments before you play the 30 second clip is bullshit. It is lazy design which should have been through the game rather then at the very end. I wish decisions had shaped the gameplay moreso then it did.

------------------

Here is my top 10, I will update the post when I get a chance.

WITCHER 2
Saints Row: The Third
Solar 2
SONIC GENERATIONS
Batman: Arkham City
Dark Souls
FIFA 12 (PC)
FROZEN SYNAPSE
E.Y.E. Diving Cybermancy
Deus Ex: Human Revolution

Honorable mentions:
--Skyrim, Catherine, MK9, You Don't Know Jack

P.S. Ravenlock, Sonic is awesome, if you enjoy classic sonic games, you should definitely look into it.

[jpublic]

Man, I was lispy in that.

[Doogie2K]

Most Important

Out of the options not taken during the show, I'll have to go with Portal 2, simply because it proved that you can actually make a worthy sequel to a game that neither needed nor wanted one. I mean, here we had a perfect, self-contained package, this neat little three-hour first-person puzzle-platformer, which was funny and smart and just long enough to get the idea across without overstaying its welcome. You can't top perfection.

So they didn't try to.

Instead, they went the other way, presenting a somewhat more traditional narrative, still using environmental cues to do some of the storytelling, but also having a story unfold around you, and characters develop along arcs, as opposed to the first game, where you're experiencing a lot of the narrative after the fact, so to speak. That it managed to be standard game length (8 hours) without feeling stretched, and that it also managed to incorporate an excellent co-op campaign of comparable length that didn't feel forced or tacked on is a tremendous achievement. That it added new gameplay elements, a variety of new environments, and deconstructed many of the elements of the original game was almost icing on the cake (insert tired cake joke here). Of course, it also raises the question of just how the hell they'd make a Portal 3, but it would seem the answer is, when they have a good enough idea to make it work. Took them four years to get Portal 2 right, and I trust Valve not to force it if it isn't fun or funny.

Strategy

AI War: Light of the Spire. AI War was a fine strategy game on its own, but the Light of the Spire expansion really gave it a shot in the arm by adding not only new AI types and ships and what-not, but by adding an actual campaign to the game. Not the usual strategy campaign, mind you, but more of a story wrapper that enhances the normal game by giving you objectives and new technologies, and altering AI behaviour based on your progression. I haven't had a chance to finish a full campaign yet, but it does fundamentally alter the way the game plays out and makes it much more engaging in periods where it would otherwise lag.

Disappointment

Dawn of War II: Retribution. On the other end of the strategy spectrum, we have the standalone second expansion for Relic's real-time tactics gem. This game isn't straight up bad, by any means: the gameplay that's defined Dawn of War II remains intact, and when it works, it's at least as good. In fact, it's arguably improved by the addition of extra tactical elements, like the small numbers of nameless reinforcements. The problem is, there's not a lot there. The five campaigns for the five different races turned out to be one campaign with five different skins, at least as far as I got in my second and third campaigns (1/3 to 1/2 way through). On top of that, I played the final mission three or four times, and each time, it bugged out at some point during the final boss fight, either during the fight itself or, in one instance, after the boss hit 0 HP but before he "died." I don't know if they've fixed it in the months since I last tried, and I don't really care. If I can't beat the game when it's released, you've done me a great disservice as a paying customer, especially one who had previously had so much faith in the series that I actually preordered the game, which I never do.

Indie

Bastion. Eric pretty much covered the broad strokes of why this game is brilliant, so instead I will simply note that one of the final scenes of the game...
the scene where you carry Zulf back to the Bastion, the Ura hailing arrows down upon you before eventually standing aside out of respect and letting you pass
...was one of the most emotionally affecting scenes I've ever played, simply because of the music, and some of the subtle bits of scripting. I actually bought the soundtrack sight unseen, as it were, because of all the raving I saw online, and I wasn't disappointed. I wasn't super jazzed by the game in the middle portion, but the final third absolutely re-sold me on it, and that scene clinched it. I replayed the ending three or four times, and couldn't really settle on an ending, which, based on Greg Kasavin's comments on this podcast and GWJCC, says to me that the writing worked as intended. Just a lovely game all around, and easily one of the best of the year.

Jamestown. I'm not quite finished it yet - stupid final boss - but what a great little throwback top-down shooter, in the realm of Raptor and *Flying Tigers and other stuff that came on old Apogee shareware discs when I was a kid. I got it with Humble Indie Bundle 4, and feel my donation was well-earned. The game does get tough, by forcing you to complete it on a reasonably high difficulty, but gives you the chance to get into it by starting you on Normal and working you up, if you so choose. The music and the art style are very well-crafted to mimic the period while also standing on their own merits, and the story is a hilarious bit of anachronism. Colonial America on 17th Century Mars? Okay. Sure. There's a "farce" version? Wait, what? How does that even work? Is that even possible? When I finish, I may go back and replay it just to see this bit of nonsense. Or try to wrangle some people into squeezing around my computer with 360 controllers. Or I may just buy the DLC and go that route. Any way you slice it, absolutely worth picking up.

Special shout-out to some of the 2009 and 2010 games I beat this year, including Mass Effect 2, Assassin's Creed II, and VVVVVV (the latter of which got a 3DS release in 2011, so that kind of counts?).

[Ravenlock]

I get the feeling that for a lot of the podcast personal viewpoints were discussed moreso then relevant one just because of limited playtime and so forth. I heard a lot of "I didn't play it, so I couldn't say" or "I don't play shooters, so..." from what I recall.

I'm not trying to slag you guys off or make you feel bad, but I heard the same thing from GB a few times and it irked me. Games that deserved press got overlooked because they didn't know or play it, particularly witcher 2 over on GB.

Well, yes, obviously the show is our opinions. That's all the show is. If you're looking for an objective assessment of the "quality of craftsmanship" of the year's games - though obviously we try to pepper some of that in - that's never going to be our primary focus. The IMmies is "here's the games we liked this year". That's it. So obviously games we didn't play won't be on there. ;) Even over on the Bombcast they're pretty open about "we play the games we want to play and talk about them", and I like them for that. It's a big internet, and plenty of places write reviews. That's not what we're doing.

As for BF3, I assume you were trying to say "making a sequel worse than the game before it" (since "making a game worse than its sequel" makes no sense), in which case obviously that's up for debate but I still think it's not that hard a sell to call it one of the most important games on the PC in 2011. Similarly, while I understand E.Y.E. to be a game similar to Deus Ex in some respects (I have not played it), it certainly can't be talked about in the same breath in terms of its relevance to the PC industry this year. For better or worse, we've got a lot of company in having not played E.Y.E.

I do agree with you on the indie games, though. Next year we should just put them in with their respective genres, and give shout-outs to small teams doing good work.

Skyrim vs. Witcher 2? I think people should play both. Like I said towards the end of the show, I think they're both "best in class" examples of the two major types of Western RPG - the huge freeform open world and the tightly-story-driven linear narrative. But I don't think there's any question that Skyrim was more important to the industry this year, by leaps and bounds.

I will make a point to try Sonic soon. :)

[Ravenlock]

Doogie - I definitely wasn't kidding when I said Bastion is in serious contention for my personal Game of the Year. I put it head to head against anything else without the slightest hesitation.

<3, Kasavin. <3.

[nabokovfan87]

Well, yes, obviously the show is our opinions. That's all the show is. If you're looking for an objective assessment of the "quality of craftsmanship" of the year's games - though obviously we try to pepper some of that in - that's never going to be our primary focus. The IMmies is "here's the games we liked this year". That's it. So obviously games we didn't play won't be on there. ;) Even over on the Bombcast they're pretty open about "we play the games we want to play and talk about them", and I like them for that. It's a big internet, and plenty of places write reviews. That's not what we're doing.

As for BF3, I assume you were trying to say "making a sequel worse than the game before it" (since "making a game worse than its sequel" makes no sense), in which case obviously that's up for debate but I still think it's not that hard a sell to call it one of the most important games on the PC in 2011. Similarly, while I understand E.Y.E. to be a game similar to Deus Ex in some respects (I have not played it), it certainly can't be talked about in the same breath in terms of its relevance to the PC industry this year. For better or worse, we've got a lot of company in having not played E.Y.E.

I wasn't saying that it wasn't your opinions, reviews and everything are all based on opinions and personal experiences. The difference was that it sounded like a one sided conversation. Everyone either agreed that the game was perfectly brilliant or only one person had played it. I don't want a podcast with everyone arguing/agreeing to keep things civil or what not, but I think for game of the year in particular you have to sit and look at everything on all levels with perspective of others opinions as well as your own.

For instance, If I was talking about skyrim as a GOTY, I would ask if it is better then W2. Then I would ask about their two releases and does the fact that we are all crazy on skyrim have to do with the fact that it is what everyone is playing right now not just because it is a great experience. I get where you are coming from, but I just felt listening like it was very [state title of game, say it's good, move on]. Certain things you discussed in depth, sort of said "prove it to me" two or three times, which was the interesting bits of the podcast. Let me demonstrate what I am saying with the following.

When you guys said BF3 was one of the most important games of 2011, you said prove it. Following that the person (I really suck with names, James?) had said that it was a game that he had personally had a lot of fun with it, enjoyed it a lot, enjoyed a particular mode or system, thinks it looked really good, and said it was the best shooter he ever played. The next logical step is to compare it to DE:HR, portal 2, ss3, etc. (I am pretty sure this actually was discussed).

I really think in 2011 I can like a large amount of games that did way more risk for the FPS/TPS genre then BF3 did. BF3 amounted to a lot of people saying "the sp sucks balls to the point where the developer shouldn't have done it at all, the mp is battlefield, 9/10". There were a LOT of issues with design decisions in that game, from the scopes, flashlights, parachutes, healing, UI, etc. that all detracted from the experience for some people. I get that he enjoyed the hell out of the game, but by no means was it important, or even the best in the genre for a lot of people. It gets a pass for the majority because in the console space you have 3 games, MW, BF, and Uncharted/Gears depeding on the platform. On pc you have a mirriad of other games, from indie to blockbusters, which took risks in their design choices and did something of value instead of updating the graphics and new "story".

Raven, if you enjoy the setting/style of DE at all, you should have played E.Y.E. by now. If you like the mechanics and ideas behind it, that to. Moreso, it is an actual interesting game in the PC scene, I'm kind of suprised you didn't play it.

Anyways, I say we just move on and talk top 10. It will be interesting to hear everyone else's top 10's and I don't want to put some big discussion on how games should be viewed just because I had a different opinion or w/e my issue is.

[nabokovfan87]

WITCHER 2

Graphics and design are the best of the year. This is one of the few games where the decisions are actually interesting and I am willing to bet this is one of the few games that will stand the test of time.

Saints Row: The Third

Crazy storyline, but the real reason this game is here is because the developer took a shot with the game. Instead of just releasing another saints game, they actually tried to push the way the story was told, from creating a more immersive experience by having the characters sing along, to telling interesting and flat out crazy stories in the first place. Somehow it seems more realistic and relateable for doing so.

Solar 2: I am writing an article for this, but needless to say this game melted my mind with how the sound design sucked me into the experience. It literally made me feel like i was "There".

SONIC GENERATIONS

Flat out, a good game for any time period of sonic fan. 2d or 3d doesn't matter, this is the sonic game we have all been waiting for.

Batman: Arkham City

Another great game that continues one of the single best games from 2009.

Dark Souls

A game whereby the entire premise is to actually become good at it. It isn't unfair, it isn't difficult, it is what you make it. More interesting online integration, more crazy design, and just flat out one of the best games ever made.

FIFA 12 (PC)

A good sports game on PC hasn't happened for some time. Madden is gone, no NHL, this is all we have left, and it was damn brilliant.

FROZEN SYNAPSE

Shocking that this idea hasn't been done before. It was the game we were all playing when designing out plans for rainbow six, and it gets props for bringing that back.

E.Y.E. Diving Cybermancy

This isn't DE, but a little more like what we thought it was going to be. I'm extremely glad this game exists, and I'm glad it is as unusual and different as it is interesting and good.

Deus Ex: Human Revolution

One of the better experiences of the year, a LOT of issues from the level up mechanics (guns and character), to simple design and just boring in some spots. It ended on something that had a much more profound effect then anything the game itself tried to offer. Perhaps because of my schooling background, but all this game did was start an interesting conversation in my head and with friends, one that lasted several weeks. I wish it had done better and portraying those decisions then it actually did, but for what it is worth, I'm glad it exists to start that conversation.

-----
IM Format:

Most Important: Witcher 2
Strategy: Frozen Synapse
Disappointment: Skyrim
Indie: E.Y.E.

[Ravenlock]

I'm on my phone, so this reply will suck. (At a rehearsal.) ;) I'll type up a better one later.

(1) I can understand that you don't necessarily want a show where we all just agree with each other, but we're doing a podcast together in part because we have similar tastes. We did flat out disagree on some things (like a certain unnamed crazy man who didn't love Bastion). ;)

(2) Let's not confuse "most important game" and GOTY. I thought it was a very interesting question he raised, and I think BF3 is a very good choice for it. I seriously doubt any other FPS on the PC in 2011 will have the impact on the future that BF3 will have. That's important, IMO, whether you think they made design mistakes or not.

(3) I don't actually have a personal top 10, but it's an interesting exercise, so sure, I'll try to come up with one. I probably won't rank it, though.

[Ravenlock]

Alright. So. My (unranked) personal Top 10 PC Games of 2011:

Bastion
A $15 game that competes in aesthetics, gameplay and story with the best AAA games ever made. Supergiant Games couldn't possibly have had a stronger debut.

Saints Row 3
Perhaps the smartest dumb game I've ever played. Ignore the brilliantly hilarious writing for a minute, this is some of the best open world action game design we've been blessed with so far. It's just tight from top to bottom. Loved every second.

Portal 2
They followed up Portal the only way they could; with more Portal. Guess what? I still want more Portal. Competes with Bastion for my story of the year, and Wheatley & Cave Johnson are both favorite characters of mine now.

Frozen Synapse
The best tactical multiplayer game I've played in years, period. Real-time asynchronous weaponized chess. Brilliant.

Bulletstorm
I fully expected to hate this game. Every scrap of its marketing was absolutely repulsive, and I laughed at it before it came out. Joke's on me. It's a fun, tight, gorgeous shooter, in many respects what Duke Nukem Forever wished it could be.

Deus Ex Human Revolution
It isn't a perfect successor to Deus Ex, but it is a worthy one. That speaks volumes.

Skyrim
I can't say Bethesda finally got everything right, but this is the closest they've ever come. Losing yourself in Tamriel is easier and more enjoyable than ever.

The Witcher 2
Pushes the PC harder than just about anything else this year, technically, and isn't afraid to push the player, either. Great, challenging combat, and great, challenging story. Bravo.

Dungeons of Dredmor
Guess what? You can release a Roguelike in 2011 and charge money for it, and people will buy it. A LOT of people. That's pretty damn awesome to learn. Also, Gaslamp Games is a hilarious class act. Good on 'em.

Terraria
Yes, it was riding Minecraft's coattails, but I can't think of a better way they possibly could have done that. The move to 2D let them put everything AND the kitchen sink in, and they significantly and meaningfully expanded the gameplay. And you were able to pick it up several times this year for less than $3. This was my "no excuse not to buy it" of the year.

Game I'm most apologetic about not playing yet: Trine 2
Game I'm saddest didn't hit this year: Torchlight 2

[Doogie2K]

Doogie - I definitely wasn't kidding when I said Bastion is in serious contention for my personal Game of the Year. I put it head to head against anything else without the slightest hesitation.

<3, Kasavin. <3.

Oh, yeah, mine too. It's that or Portal 2 for me. But my list of 2011 games played is like five long, so that really doesn't mean as much, all things considered. ;)

I was also going to echo Nab's suggestion to just put the indies into their respective genres and wash your hands of that distinction. Given the quality of work coming out of the sub-20-man studios these days, it's almost an arbitrary distinction, at least in terms of overall quality. (Stylistically, they're necessarily very different, but for the purposes of how this podcast discusses the games of the year, that's not enough to warrant the separation.)

[muddi900]

My favorite game was Witcher 2. I do think that people need to understand that Elder Scrolls and Witcher are two distinctly different type of games.

[Vigil80]

When you guys said BF3 was one of the most important games of 2011, you said prove it. Following that the person (I really suck with names, James?) had said that it was a game that he had personally had a lot of fun with it, enjoyed it a lot, enjoyed a particular mode or system, thinks it looked really good, and said it was the best shooter he ever played. The next logical step is to compare it to DE:HR, portal 2, ss3, etc. (I am pretty sure this actually was discussed).
I don't think you're quite remembering correctly. For one thing, I don't remember saying it was the best shooter I'd ever played at all. We also talked about other aspects, such as the Battlelog, which is something that I don't think another game has done before. Not another mainstream one, at least.

Ravenlock is right. When I brought up most "important" game, I didn't necessarily mean best game. This might be an extreme example, but think of Halo. Best shooter ever? Hell no. Best shooter of 2001, even? I don't know, I had more fun with Tribes 2. But it did create waves.

As for the rest of your concerns, I'm not sure entirely how to address them. We talk about what we know. I suppose someone could start saying more things just for the sake of argument, but I already feel like I do that too much some episodes.

I'll have to think about my top 10 for a little bit.

[nabokovfan87]

I don't think you're quite remembering correctly. For one thing, I don't remember saying it was the best shooter I'd ever played at all. We also talked about other aspects, such as the Battlelog, which is something that I don't think another game has done before. Not another mainstream one, at least.

Ravenlock is right. When I brought up most "important" game, I didn't necessarily mean best game. This might be an extreme example, but think of Halo. Best shooter ever? Hell no. Best shooter of 2001, even? I don't know, I had more fun with Tribes 2. But it did create waves.

You said it was the best shooter you played this year.

I have an extremely hard time correlating "most important" and "best" games of the year 2011 and not having the same games on the list. I can understand, make, see, and think that the "most important" would be DE:HR or E.Y.E. or something along those lines. I understand that important games almost always have glitches, issues, and are unfinished. The developers that take chances to do things, to push games forward, to make extreme design choices always tend to overlook things.

Going back to BF, battlelog is a joke. Moreso, saying BF3 is important because of battlelog is a joke. Killzone did it, halo, gow, cod, etc. all have similar things. The fact that the UI has been taken out of the game and you have an immensely high latency for detecting servers because they more then likely offloading that aspect of the game to a different studio for development is a joke. I have had nothing but issues w/ battlelog when I used it. I don't enjoy the idea that I start a game and I get directed to an IE window because it doesn't have the right whatever for firefox/chrome. It makes getting into SP a bitch (others have said), and I see the only beneficial factor at all being the tracking of stats and what not. Of which I mentioned killzone 2 did it a while ago, halo as well, thousands of korean games have web based "launchers" that you must log in and jump through hoops in order to play their crap. It isn't innovative, it is a step in the wrong direction.

I'm not going to touch the whole halo thing... ugh... stupid game.

As for the rest of your concerns, I'm not sure entirely how to address them. We talk about what we know. I suppose someone could start saying more things just for the sake of argument, but I already feel like I do that too much some episodes.

I'll have to think about my top 10 for a little bit.

It has less to do with arguing/discussion and more to providing the BEST discussion by looking at things from different viewpoints, more viewpoints, other's viewpoints, etc.

[Ravenlock]

I'm not going to touch the whole halo thing... ugh... stupid game.

See, this. This right here.

It's fine to not like Halo. But it's one of the most important - in terms of being influential in the direction of the industry - games of all time.

You might like E.Y.E. a whole lot, and you might be right that I really ought to play it. It might do some really cool stuff. But the vast majority of the game playing public has no idea it even exists.

[Doogie2K]

I'm not going to touch the whole halo thing... ugh... stupid game.

But it changed the face of gaming. It proved that shooters could control as comfortably on consoles as PCs (even if M/KB will always be superior for pure precision), and for what had always been a lucrative pillar of the PC platform, this was critical, because now it exposed those games to millions more console gamers. Net result: Call of Duty becomes the highest-selling franchise of this generation on the consoles by a landslide, after being born on the PC; the developers of Unreal Tournament create a major Xbox-exclusive franchise and become the kings of engine licensing for both PC and console; and so forth. How many major developers of fine console games were primarily PC-based ten years ago? Even Valve has had multiple successful console games, even if they were developed for the PC first.

The current state of the video game industry owes a lot to the original Halo, even if its quality as a shooter was very inconsistent.

[nabokovfan87]

See, this. This right here.

It's fine to not like Halo. But it's one of the most important - in terms of being influential in the direction of the industry - games of all time.

You might like E.Y.E. a whole lot, and you might be right that I really ought to play it. It might do some really cool stuff. But the vast majority of the game playing public has no idea it even exists.

Halo on pc hasn't done CRAP.

Halo on console did stuff with online. Microsoft did it by telling everyone halo was good, nothing happened until halo 2. The controls in ghost recon on the ps2 were better. Blah blah blah. Look, you can say halo was influential because it brough online to consoles.

1. Consoles aren't pc.
2. The fact that it took marketing and a sequel to get people to actually play crap online tells you how much of a joke halo was.

You can say I'm wrong, but there isn't a damn thing halo did that wasn't done before.


Wikipedia:
According to Gamespot, Halo's "numerous subtle innovations have been borrowed by countless other games since."[89] The game is often cited as the main reason for the Xbox's success,[90] and it began what is commonly regarded as the system's flagship franchise.[91] Game designer Vox Day credited the game with using science-fiction environments to follow Half-Life in eschewing static levels and a similarity to dungeon crawls, which the FPS genre inherited from Akalabeth. Day further wrote that Halo spurred a sustained trend of many other FPS console games.[92] In July 2006, Next-Gen.biz published an article estimating Halo as the second-highest revenue-generating twenty-first century console video game in the United States, behind Grand Theft Auto: Vice City.[93] The game's popularity sparked the usage of terms like "Halo clone"[94][95][96] and "Halo killer".[14] The Halo engine has been used for the game Stubbs the Zombie in Rebel Without a Pulse.[97]

Halo has been featured at both Major League Gaming and the World Cyber Games.[98][99] In machinima, the game was used as the basis for the popular web series Red vs. Blue. The game's sequel, Halo 2, made US$125 million with unit sales of 2.38 million on the first day of its release,[100] earning it the distinction of the fastest-selling United States media product in history.[101] Three years later, Halo 3 shattered that record with the biggest opening day in entertainment history, taking in US$170 million in its first 24 hours.[102]

[Wolvie]

Influential does not mean new. Things can be old as dirt and influence trends. That's what Halo did. It brought console gaming up to snuff with PC and had other console games imitate it. Sure what Halo had wasn't new. But Halo made those things main stream and popular on consoles. Plain and simple.

In other words, CoD wouldn't be what it is without Halo.

[Vigil80]

The last thing I'll say about the importance of BF3 is that it's one of the few games of 2011 that I can think of which pushed the envelope technologically. (Which I believe we also mentioned on the show.) When the average PC port just means higher resolution and faster load times for the high end PC player, a game that actually takes advantage of their machine is important.

Halo on pc hasn't done CRAP.
I believe it's fooling yourself to think that games we play on PC haven't been affected by Halo.

[Ravenlock]

Yeah, sorry, but to claim that Halo hasn't influenced FPS development across the board - including on PC (especially on PC, maybe, since there was the biggest pre-existing market there to change) is absurd. Yes it did. Without question.

You can say I'm wrong, but there isn't a damn thing halo did that wasn't done before.

It was a console FPS that sold 5 million copies, and birthed one of the most widely recognized franchises in the industry. It was important. We're clearly having different conversations here.

(For what it's worth, James wasn't even talking about the PC version of Halo, which didn't hit until 2003. He was talking about the XBox game. But the XBox game absolutely influenced PC games, both in terms of what got made from that point forward, and how it got made.)

I suspect James is right to think that BF3 will have a lot of influence on PC multiplayer FPS development going forward. If you think we're wrong, the good news is, all you have to do is wait and laugh at us later.

More lists, people. I have a game to give away. ;)

[nabokovfan87]

Influential does not mean new. Things can be old as dirt and influence trends. That's what Halo did. It brought console gaming up to snuff with PC and had other console games imitate it. Sure what Halo had wasn't new. But Halo made those things main stream and popular on consoles. Plain and simple.

In other words, CoD wouldn't be what it is without Halo.

I would agree with the first part, it made things "popular" for console gamers, but moh and cod have always been different beasts then halo/gears. One is or was a commerative storytelling of soldiers battles, the other is sci-fi fantasy what not. Funny how cod is stupid now.

Vigil, witcher 2 did far more for graphics and pushing tech then bf3 did. The only thing BF3 did was upgrade the engine. The only reason BF gets the attention on graphics is because the populous wants it to be good and it is a big studio doing it rather then some little known PC dev who made a game way back when.

http://media.photobucket.com/image/best%20bf3%20screenshot/TheMailMan78/bad-company-2-screenshots__5_.jpg

Take this screenshot, compare it to this one from witcher 2.

http://egamer.co.za/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/The-Witcher-2-Screenshot-10.jpg

The lighting work in witcher is vastly better, texture work is better (bf spent time on characters and forgot about the rest of the game). BF has its "realism" filters that make the game blurry and aliased to hell. I would take witcher's visuals and performance over BF any day.

Let me end by saying this. Selling a lot means nothing. A lot of games, movies, things, sell a lot, but we all know micheal bay's transformers, twilight, etc. are stupid shit that people eat in droves just because. Same thing with cod, gow, bf, etc. The one thing that halo did for pc gaming was adjust the market to a console centric whatever you want to call it. BF3 is not influential on that front. Like you said, the only way to "tell" is time. I am willing to bet a survey of 100-1000 people who ask what is the most influential game on the gaming industry in 2011 and bf3 wouldn't even be in the top 5 of things that people mention.

Would be DE, Bastion, Witcher, Skyrim, and something else.

Anyways, on with the top 10's I am tired of talking about how terrible a game is.

If anyone wants I got a plethera of humble bundle keys for anyone who wants one.

[Vigil80]

I would take that bet, sir. :)

Without further ado, and in alphabetical order, my personal top ten. I would like to note that these are PC-centric, which may be obvious. But most of these would be near the top of a pan-platform list, too.

Bastion - What can I say about Bastion that hasn't already been said many times? The worst things about it are still cream of the crop. Not bad for a studio's first outing.

Batman: Arkham City - Deep down, who doesn't want to be Batman? This game does it again. Some criticized it for being more of the same, but Batman really shined for me when I could spread his cape and reign over more than one insane asylum.

Battlefield 3 - "Important" stuff completely aside, I do hold that it's the best multiplayer shooting to come out of 2011. With a good squad, the fun increases exponentially. It's also something of a return to form for DICE - though they could have taken it farther, fingers crossed for Battlefield 4. The unlocks come frequently enough and feel relevant enough to give me that catch 'em all feeling, and even new players can feel like they're contributing to matches in some way. (Even if they actually aren't. I'm looking at you, sniper laying prone on the rocks.)

Deus Ex: Human Revolution - This game is dripping with atmosphere, and in most ways is a worthy continuation of the legacy. Before DX:HR, I probably would have said that kind of game was from a bygone period. Turns out people still want more, and Eidos has the capacity to give it to us.

Portal 2 - Practically a no-brainer. I played the entire singleplayer portion over the night (and following morning) of its release. Engrossing puzzles and environments, memorable characters, and that Valve polish. Co-op partner wanted.

Skyrim - Bethesda's magnum opus, at least until they manage to top themselves. 'Nuff said.

Terraria - Add two parts Minecraft to one part Metroidvania and one part Legend of Zelda. Mix well. Good for fifty-leven hours of servings.

Total War: Shogun 2 - Total War is seminal PC strategy, and Shogun 2 is classic Total War with modern refinements. Keep on trucking, Creative Assembly.

Magicka - The underdog of my list, Magicka peeps at me from my Steam list. "C'mon, you aren't really done with me, are you?" Mashing magic together to make new magic is a riot, especially co-op. It's in need of some fine tuning, but playing Magicka makes me feel more like a wizard than any other game off the top of my head.

Minecraft - Is it really a 2011 game? I'm not totally sure, but I don't think I care anymore. Though some like to scoff at it a bit, Minecraft will not be denied. There's something primal and elegant about it. And there's a reason dozens of people have been able to make jobs out of Minecraft on Youtube. From the development process, to the game itself, to the community that grew around it, Minecraft's success story is the stuff PC gaming is made of.

More lists, people. I have a game to give away. ;)