[Multi] Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim Review

[Ghostbear]

Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim Review

Product: Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim
Platform: PC/360/PS3
Developer: Bethesda Softworks (http://www.bethsoft.com/eng/index.php)
MSRP: $59.99 (http://www.amazon.com/Elder-Scrolls-V-Skyrim-Xbox-360/dp/B004HYK956/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1321393069&sr=8-1)
Editor: Jeremy 'Ghostbear' Spurlock

What's Hot: Gorgeous RPG that let's you go anywhere and be anything you like.

What's Not: Atrocious UI.

Let me tell you about Jarx, Master of the Arcane and Destroyer of Hope. He started off as a humble dark elf, just trying to make his way in the frozen north. He has saved lives, cleared dungeons, fought foes that varied greatly.. He has killed kings and murdered a bride at her wedding. While on his quest to find a magical horn, he stopped deadly nightmares from destroying the minds of an entire town. He has forged arms and imbued them with powerful magicks. This was all before level 15.

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6227/6348003981_d56f322db9_z.jpg
Feel my eldritch power lizard!


The Elder Scrolls series has always tried to give you the feeling of a massive world, populated with people, creatures and gods. It has been more or less successful in this regard. Skyrim blows all previous iterations out of the water in this field though. I was absolutely captivated by the sheer variety of strange and amazing things that just kept happening. I saw a dragon do battle with a mammoth and lose. I witnessed a small child performing the black sacrament to have someone killed. Everywhere you go there is something to see, do or destroy. It seems that I have yet to scratch the surface when it comes to seeing everything there is to see in the frozen north of Tamriel.

When you start looking at individual components however, some of the magick starts to break down. From my past experiences playing this series on PC, I was prepared for a sub-optimal user interface. I clearly did not prepare myself enough. Calling it clunky would be generous. There is no real way to organize your inventory, or easily see what your character has equipped. The fact that there is no character sheet is mind boggling. Curious about what buffs or diseases are affecting you? You have to open the magic tab, scroll down to magic effect and look through a list. Having the ability to “favorite” spells, items and weapons alleviates some of the issues I had, but honestly I can’t wait for a mod to make the UI more functional.

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6034/6348755184_48f5da1332_z.jpg
Jarx, Master Chef


Going along with the “pretty, but not terribly functional” theme is the map. For all its 3-D gorgeousness, its usefulness is questionable. You can’t really see much because the entire thing is covered in clouds. It ends up mostly being used as a place to click on towns so you can fast travel. It is basically a harder to use list of places I’ve visited. I understand there is a mod that lets you zoom in further, I will be trying this out as soon as I can.

Leveling your character is also an issue, when trying to navigate the perk constellation I found myself constantly going anywhere but the perk I wanted. I would zoom to other skill sets entirely. Want to quickly see what perks you have? Sorry, can’t do that. Next time, let’s just stick with a 2-D character sheet, it’s quick, easy and functional.

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6034/6348004369_74cc8d41e3_z.jpg
Solitude, city by the bay.


Visually, this game is a feast for the eyes. From amazing snow storms swirling around you, to rivers that flow into waterfalls, there is always something amazing to look at. I was constantly blown away by the attention to detail in the world. There were things in this world that made me just stop and look around. The cities of Markarth and Solitude compelled me to walk around and look at everything. Character models are also vastly improved from previous games. Many of you likely remember the hideous characters of Oblivion and Morrowind, worry no more. Time and technology improvements have made making a good looking character easy.

I know this will hurt some of you, but music typically doesn’t impact me much when playing a game. I usually find that if I don’t notice it, that means it isn’t irritating and therefore just fine with me. This time I did notice it and it was really good. It helped bring me fully into the fantasy world that Bethesda crafted. Never once did I feel that it was too repetitive or that it took me out of the game. It is an essential component when experiencing the land of Skyrim.

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6102/6348754952_15af5d4c91_z.jpg
Shadowmere, Horse of the Damned


You are once again free to take your character in any direction you choose. Feel free to mix and match abilities until you make the character you always wanted, there isn't really a "bad" choice. Though you’ll want to have at least one combat ability; otherwise you’re not going to do much but run away and look around towns. My character was primarily Destruction magick focused with a dash of stealth and protection magick. Having the ability to walk into a room and annihilate a group of enemies is really fun. This really highlights one of the strengths of the Elder Scrolls games, replayability. When I play this again, I am going to be able to choose a completely different character type and the experience will be different enough for me to thoroughly enjoy it.

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6041/6348754714_3146aef0e6_z.jpg
Dragon vs. Mammoth, fight of the century?



So, complaints aside, I sunk 30 hours into Skyrim at the time of this writing. It has consumed my free time since it came out, and I do not see that changing anytime soon. I highly encourage anyone who has even vaguely enjoyed an RPG or MMO to play Skyrim. You will not be disappointed, except with yourself when you let those dishes stack up.

Score: 4 out of 5 CoGs
http://www.colonyofgamers.com/images/CoG4.png

Jeremy says, "If you want to get lost in a world and experience loads of quests, characters and playstyles, this is the game for you."

*Note - Review based upon a Steam copy of the PC version.

[frederec]

Wait...so if I'm level seventeen and I haven't seen a dragon aside from the prologue, does that mean there's something wrong with me, or that I've been spending way too much time sneaking and stealing and crafting?

I also have heard some reports of PS3 users having stability issues when their save files get over 5MB. I don't know if I've hit that point yet, but it's something I'm a little nervous about.

[Lekon]

Wait...so if I'm level seventeen and I haven't seen a dragon aside from the prologue, does that mean there's something wrong with me, or that I've been spending way too much time sneaking and stealing and crafting?

I also have heard some reports of PS3 users having stability issues when their save files get over 5MB. I don't know if I've hit that point yet, but it's something I'm a little nervous about.

Dragons only start showing up if you do a few of the main storyline missions. Don't panic. Carry on with sneaking, crafting, and hidden murder like a good skyrimmer.

[TheFlyingOrc]

Dragons only start showing up if you do a few of the main storyline missions. Don't panic. Carry on with sneaking, crafting, and hidden murder like a good skyrimmer.

I actually recommend doing the first few main quest objectives so you can get shouts and such. Makes exploring that much more interesting.

[frederec]

I actually recommend doing the first few main quest objectives so you can get shouts and such. Makes exploring that much more interesting.

I was wondering about that...thanks.

I've found a couple of words (and bought and started furnishing a house), but no roaming dragons. Guess I'll push a little further forward to see some more of that stuff.

[Lekon]

I actually recommend doing the first few main quest objectives so you can get shouts and such. Makes exploring that much more interesting.

I'll agree to that. Just so you can start finding dragons. Makes some of the little extra areas a bit more interesting. Also, if you're playing on PC: the C button is default for auto run. A very nice button.

[Zecon]

I'm a level 17 now and I only have 2 words, with 6 dragon souls in reserve.
When they start showing up, you will see them everywhere.

[MosBen]

Wow, you put in 30 hours in under a week? That's damn impressive.

I put about 5 hours into Saint's Row 3 last night. I was a little shocked and worried to see that I'm currently at 21% completion, but then I figured that 25 hours is actually a pretty decent amount of time for me to expect, almost all of my time has been spent doing actual missions (rather than side missions), and I'm almost certainly not going to put that much time into it in another single sitting. Anyway, I mean to say that I may end up burning through SR3 faster than I thought, which is going to put me in the position of having do decide between Skyrim and Assassin's Creed: Revelations.

Right now I'm leaning towards AC, but man does Skyrim sound neat.

[Ghostbear]

Wow, you put in 30 hours in under a week? That's damn impressive.



Impressive or depressing. Heh, A little of both I think.

[Karak]

Skyrim is, without any doubt, my game of the entire generation.

[Yeti2005]

Carry on with sneaking, crafting, and hidden murder like a good skyrimmer.

The word "skyrimmer" just sounds dirty. I can't wait to play this game.

[biosc1]

Skyrim is just another Battlefield 3 with swords instead of guns and dragons instead of tanks. Magic instead of repair kits.

yes, I live in the shadow of violent

[Kielaran]

I was not a big fan of Oblivion. I get too distracted trying to see everything and get burnt out before doing much at all in the main quests. Is there anything that has changed so much that I should consider getting Skyrim or am I right filing it under 'not for me'?

[Seika]

I sunk in 29 hours according to Steam, in about roughly 3 days I've had free, and have barely scratched the surface of the game. I'm also still on the first quest you get to kill a dragon on the the main story line, and have discovered about 1/3 of the map.

For comparison, I played the entirety of Deus Ex in ~31 hours, and The Witcher 2 in ~ 33 hours.

Skyrim is a big game.

[TrackZero]

I was wondering about that...thanks.

I've found a couple of words (and bought and started furnishing a house), but no roaming dragons. Guess I'll push a little further forward to see some more of that stuff.

You need to "meet the greybeards" for the dragons to start popping.

[National Kato]

I was not a big fan of Oblivion. I get too distracted trying to see everything and get burnt out before doing much at all in the main quests. Is there anything that has changed so much that I should consider getting Skyrim or am I right filing it under 'not for me'?

I'd say, 'not for you' since the size and distractedness is in full supply. Looking at my quest log after 30-odd hours? 11 main and side quests and 23 quests filed under 'Miscellaneous.' I'm level 17 out of 50.

[Kielaran]

Much abliged good sir. I assumed as much, but wanted to make sure with all the positive words going around.

[MosBen]

Kieleran, I'm sort of in the same boat, though for me it's more a matter of waiting until I can buy it used. I got into the Elder Scrolls games with Daggerfall, but I don't think I've ever beaten one for exactly the reasons you mention. I start up, have a great time, but wander off the path and end up losing interest before before I find it again. I think part of this is just my transition to getting older. When I was in my teens I didn't think twice about sinking tons of hours into a game, even if I was just fooling around. As I've crept up into my 30s, though, I'm a lot more conscious of how my free time has shrunk, and I'm more interested in concentrated/well-directed experiences. I think that when I eventually play Skyrim, I'm going to try to focus on working my way through the story, rather than spending time exploring. Sure, some exploring will be unavoidable, but if I force myself to stick too the adventure I think I'll have more fun.

[Exodus]

Take a breath mosBen...

[Superman's Dead]

Should have capslocked it, Ghostbear. Especially the parts about dragons.

DRAGONS

[diablopath]

Wow, you put in 30 hours in under a week? That's damn impressive.

I put about 5 hours into Saint's Row 3 last night. I was a little shocked and worried to see that I'm currently at 21% completion, but then I figured that 25 hours is actually a pretty decent amount of time for me to expect, almost all of my time has been spent doing actual missions (rather than side missions), and I'm almost certainly not going to put that much time into it in another single sitting. Anyway, I mean to say that I may end up burning through SR3 faster than I thought, which is going to put me in the position of having do decide between Skyrim and Assassin's Creed: Revelations.

Right now I'm leaning towards AC, but man does Skyrim sound neat.

My friend took two days off of work to play Skyrim; he had put 27 hours in to it by the time he came into work on Sunday.

I'm happy I don't have that kind of desire to play video games.

[Exodus]

My friend took two days off of work to play Skyrim; he had put 27 hours in to it by the time he came into work on Sunday.

I'm happy I don't have that kind of desire to play video games.

As long as you have something in your life that you're willing to just drop everything for on a whim, I think you'll be alright. Everyone should have something like that. ;)

[UWCrash]

You need to "meet the greybeards" for the dragons to start popping.

Or at least be on the quest to do so. I haven't "met" them yet, but that's my current main story objective.

[Shjinta]

You need to "meet the greybeards" for the dragons to start popping.

Yeah I've only seen 2.. The story one, and the fucker that ambushed me on the way to the Greybeard's.. I never made it up that hill though. Some Troll threw me off, then I quit and went to play SR 3 lol.

[TheFlyingOrc]

Much abliged good sir. I assumed as much, but wanted to make sure with all the positive words going around.

I...I don't get why your point is an argument AGAINST the game. You didn't finish the main quest - fine, the main quest in Oblivion was terrible. But you were distracted trying to see everything - that makes it sound like you were enjoying the game too much to finish the main quest, which is hardly a mark against the game!

[EternalGamer]

I've played Skyrim for about 15 hours now and have come to the conclusion that it's not a very good use of TUD (time until death). Yeah, it's fun enough, but it's a major time sink and for every cool sandbox moment, you spend hours fetching things and playing combat that isn't very engaging.

There are better uses of my entertainment time.

[CappinCanuck]

Found this when looking for how to turn mouse smoothing off:


How do I fix the crash to desktop?

1. Go to Start -> Control Panel -> Sound
2. In the Playback tab, right click on Speakers (or whatever has a green tick next to it), then click Properties
3. In the advanced tab on this new window, select 24 bit, 44100Hz (Studio Quality) in the drop down menu

How do I fix some sound issues, such as hearing static during NPC dialogue?

1. Go to Start -> Control Panel -> Sound
2. In the Playback tab, right click on Speakers (or whatever has a green tick next to it), then click Properties
3. In the advanced tab on this new window, select 24 bit, 44100Hz (Studio Quality) in the drop down menu

How do I disable the smooth mouse settings?

1. Go to your Steam Directory -> steamapps -> common -> skyrim -> Skyrim
2. Create a backup of the SkyrimPrefs.ini file
3. Open the file, then scroll down to where it says [Controls] and find bMouseAcceleration=1
4. Change to bMouseAcceleration=0
5. Save, exit, and play

How do I fix the vsync ("laggy mouse") problem?

1. Go to your Steam Directory -> steamapps -> common -> skyrim -> Skyrim
2. Create a backup of the SkyrimPrefs.ini file
3. Open the file, then scroll down to where it says [Display]
4. Add to the bottom of the section iPresentInterval=0
5. Save, exit, and play

How do I change the FOV?

1. Go to your My Documents -> My Games -> Skyrim -> skyrim
2. Create a backup of the skyrim.ini file
3. Open the file, then scroll down to where it says [General]
4. At the bottom of this section, add fdefaultfov=XX (where XX is the FOV value you want to change to)
5. Save, exit, and play

EDIT: OH NO MESSING WITH THE INI FILE DISABLE MY ACHIEVEMEN.... :[censored]off:

.ini Variables
The SkyrimPrefs.ini is located in Documents\My Games\Skyrim. Make a backup as usual.

Interesting variables are as follows, in order of appearance in the .ini and showing their default settings.
bDoDepthOfField=1
bTreesReceiveShadows=0
bDrawLandShadows=0
bShowFloatingQuestMarkers=1
bShowQuestMarkers=1
bShowCompass=1
bMouseAcceleration=1
fAutosaveEveryXMins=15.0000

FOV adjustment (For those who don't like fiddling with .ini files)
Have found no way to change FOV outside the game so far (only the fov n console command like Oblivion). Changing the FOV via the in-game console carries over between reloads and sessions. Here are some comparison screenshots. They were taken at 1920x1080, and there wasn't much fisheye at 100 degrees. I settled at 95 degrees.

Default FOV (I'm guessing around 60-70)
80 degrees
90 degrees
100 degrees.



Comparison of bTreesReceiveShadows and bDrawLandShadows values

bTreesReceiveShadows=0
bTreesReceiveShadows=1


Obviously having TreesReceiveShadows on gives trees tons more depth.

bDrawLandShadows=0
bDrawLandShadows=1

[Karak]

Snip yep!

Ya those and other ini tweaks are all posted in the playthrough and the other Skyrim thread as well if your looking for other tips.

[JayK47]

I was so busy loving this game that I tried to ignore the UI. I had several issues with it but just thought I needed to read the manual or something. Well it turns out that some of the functions are not in the manual or game guide, when you change a key, it doesn't update in the UI, and the more crap you get the harder it is to use. So yeah, if it was possible to make the UI worse than Oblivion, mission accomplished. And by far the worst part is not knowing if I have a disease or if my potion is still active without digging through the menu which still doesn't tell me how much longer the effects will last. I find out I am diseased most of the time from townsfolk telling me I look pale. What a crappy way to find out I have gonorrhea.

[Exodus]

I've played Skyrim for about 15 hours now and have come to the conclusion that it's not a very good use of TUD (time until death). Yeah, it's fun enough, but it's a major time sink and for every cool sandbox moment, you spend hours fetching things and playing combat that isn't very engaging.

There are better uses of my entertainment time.

Get off my lawn. :p

[TrackZero]

Yeah I've only seen 2.. The story one, and the fucker that ambushed me on the way to the Greybeard's.. I never made it up that hill though. Some Troll threw me off, then I quit and went to play SR 3 lol.

Heh, I never met one on the way to the greybeards. But that troll wrecked me. I must have reloaded 25 times before I beat him. A day later, I realized my game had defaulted to "master" difficulty. *facepalm*

[Ghostbear]

As I hinted at in the review, breaking this game down into its component parts forces the cracks to show. The pacing is glacial, the characters are forgettable, and the main plot is more of the tired "you are the chosen one" However it's all these things together combined with all the little awesome moments that make this series worthwhile. Indeed I intend to keep playing off and on for the foreseeable future.

[TrackZero]

I was so busy loving this game that I tried to ignore the UI. I had several issues with it but just thought I needed to read the manual or something. Well it turns out that some of the functions are not in the manual or game guide, when you change a key, it doesn't update in the UI, and the more crap you get the harder it is to use. So yeah, if it was possible to make the UI worse than Oblivion, mission accomplished. And by far the worst part is not knowing if I have a disease or if my potion is still active without digging through the menu which still doesn't tell me how much longer the effects will last. I find out I am diseased most of the time from townsfolk telling me I look pale. What a crappy way to find out I have gonorrhea.

Weird. I wonder if there's some major differences from the 360 to PC. I'm playing on 360, I haven't been bothered at all by the UI. My only beef is that the map doesn't zoom down a bit lower.

[Ghostbear]

I felt like I was wrestling with the UI the entire time. Even ignoring the bassackwards utility. It is terrible at quickly and concisely displaying the information I want.

[Exodus]

I felt like I was wrestling with the UI the entire time. Even ignoring the bassackwards utility. It is terrible at quickly and concisely displaying the information I want.

They over minimized that's for sure in favour of a pleasing look. I mean walking around is great and not seeing stupid buff icons or debuff icons allows for immersion but, if you're going to do that you have to use the other ways of telling you something is wrong. If that means seeing flies flying out of your nose due to brain rot then so be it.

[Wackman3000]

Great review. I am enjoying this game much more than Oblivion, but even with a new engine, you can still see some of the oddities that plagued the previous series and even the Fallout series, most notably the serious NPC/enemy pathing issues.

Several times I have ended up in battles where I climb a very slight mountain top and the enemy just stops and stares completely confused by where I went, or will sometimes start running all the way around a mountainside to try another route to get to me.

It's definitely not a game breaker by any means, but when you look back and suddenly the awesome NPC you had carrying all your loot is not longer walking behind you, it can be a bit frustrating.

Overall, I will say that my mind has been on nothing but Skyrim this past week, and I expect the trend to continue for a while.

[Wackman3000]

Weird. I wonder if there's some major differences from the 360 to PC. I'm playing on 360, I haven't been bothered at all by the UI. My only beef is that the map doesn't zoom down a bit lower.

I've been playing on PC, but with an X360 controller. You can tell that the menus were done with controller in mind, and while they are a bit annoying to constantly navigate, I am getting very used to the favorites section.

The ability to sort things is greatly lacking though. When you are a packrat/pilfering SOB such as myself, having to wade through stacks of stolen rings and amulets to get to my armor is a bit annoying. Subsections for the 6 areas to place apparel would have been nice, but again, would just result in more sub menu navigation.

I've also found that playing on a controller makes the combat a bit different. When I was playing on kb/m, I played combat much more dynamically, as I had instant access to my favorites by mapping them on the 1-9 keys. But with the controller, I find myself pausing to the favorite menu a lot more.

[Rune_74]

I may be in the minority, but I actually like the UI...I think it is a lot better then the last two games. It's easy and doesn't take you away from the game for too long...as for sorting...what game did you play where it sorted it like it does now with all the items going into sub catagories...?? sure didn't in morrowind.

Think it gets 4.5 to 5 from me, easily the game of year for me.

[Wolvie]

I may be in the minority, but I actually like the UI...I think it is a lot better then the last two games. It's easy and doesn't take you away from the game for too long...as for sorting...what game did you play where it sorted it like it does now with all the items going into sub catagories...?? sure didn't in morrowind.

Think it gets 4.5 to 5 from me, easily the game of year for me.

I agree, I have no idea how the UI is bad. It's easy to use, gets you where you need to be fast, and back into the action. It's easily better than the cluster-fuck of sub-menu's and walls of tests and super loooooooooooong lists that was Morrowind/Oblivion.

The only problem I had was the map/quest portion. And even that was a minor irritant until I got used to it.

For whatever reason, PC gamers hacked on Oblivion's UI for being to console-ish, and this one seems to be getting more hate for the simplified easier to use interface. Easier= bad?

The only argument I've ever heard against the last two games UI(from modders) amounts to basically: "The menu's lists aren't long enough!" to which I reply "Wait, what!?" :confused:

[Ghostbear]

I agree, I have no idea how the UI is bad. It's easy to use, gets you where you need to be fast, and back into the action. It's easily better than the cluster-fuck of sub-menu's and walls of tests and super loooooooooooong lists that was Morrowind/Oblivion.

The only problem I had was the map/quest portion. And even that was a minor irritant until I got used to it.

For whatever reason, PC gamers hacked on Oblivion's UI for being to console-ish, and this one seems to be getting more hate for the simplified easier to use interface. Easier= bad?

The only argument I've ever heard against the last two games UI(from modders) amounts to basically: "The menu's lists aren't long enough!" to which I reply "Wait, what!?" :confused:

Err no. I dislike it, because I have to wade through too many menus to see things like status effects. Or quickly being able to see what I have equipped. It should have much of this information front and center. It's not easier, it is prettier. I shouldn't have to feel like I am wrestling the UI when I use a mouse.

[Wolvie]

Err no. I dislike it, because I have to wade through too many menus to see things like status effects. Or quickly being able to see what I have equipped. It should have much of this information front and center. It's not easier, it is prettier. I shouldn't have to feel like I am wrestling the UI when I use a mouse.

Step 1) favorite the things you have equipped, including spells.

Step 2) favorite the things you will switch to constantly.

Step 3) use a controller, the menu's are super easy to use with a controller. You might not like that, but the menu was designed with an analog stick in mind.

Doing the above will quickly and easily show you what you have equipped, and what you can swap to. With a tiny bit of prep, one button tap will show you what have on. One gripe I can understand is your fav menu should automatically show what's equipped. But like I said, a moment taken to favorite a newly equipped item makes your life so much easier.

And if you need to see status effects, bring up your magic menu, then scroll down and select active effects. It's just like with Oblivion only faster. Hell even if you just select your apparel/weapons menu the status effects are right there.
The only difference between Oblivion and this game is status effects are kept in the menu's. Whereas Oblivion did display active status effects up in the corner... in indiscernible icon form. I always looked at those and went "what the hell does that mean?" and then had to look it up anyways.

Honestly, the menu has small insignificant nit-picks IMHO. It's way better than past TES games, and has been one of the most painless UI's I've used.

In short, learning the right way to use the UI, and you will have a pain free Skyrim adventure.

[Rune_74]

Err no. I dislike it, because I have to wade through too many menus to see things like status effects. Or quickly being able to see what I have equipped. It should have much of this information front and center. It's not easier, it is prettier. I shouldn't have to feel like I am wrestling the UI when I use a mouse.

That's because it is designed to have very little mouse input....it is a keyboard driven menu system, if you use the WASD and tab key it is beyond simple. I get what I want and out way quicker then opening a character sheet.

Oh and I think you should have gave it a 4.5 or 5.

[Wolvie]

That's because it is designed to have very little mouse input....it is a keyboard driven menu system, if you use the WASD and tab key it is beyond simple. I get what I want and out way quicker then opening a character sheet.

Oh and I think you should have gave it a 4.5 or 5.

... oops. I stand corrected. I guess it's easy on the KB too.

Edit: BTW, if I did a review, this game would probably get a 5 out of me. I have small nit-picks, and zero complaints. Easily my GOTY.

[Blue]

Yeah, I think the UI is pretty great personally. I've had zero troubles switching my gear around along with Shouts during combat and I went in expecting it to be cumbersome. The menu is one of the better improvements in the series, IMO.

[Ghostbear]

That's because it is designed to have very little mouse input....it is a keyboard driven menu system, if you use the WASD and tab key it is beyond simple. I get what I want and out way quicker then opening a character sheet.

Oh and I think you should have gave it a 4.5 or 5.

I was wondering if there would be a review where you didn't say something about a score. Way to stay consistent.

[Blue]

I was wondering if there would be a review where you didn't say something about a score. Way to stay consistent.

Should have been a 7. Total rip.

[Rune_74]

I was wondering if there would be a review where you didn't say something about a score. Way to stay consistent.

Um, please qoute me where I did mention about a score? Usually I agree with ythem. Nice way for a mod to act.

[Wolvie]

Should have been a 7. Total rip.

Nope, a 9.75 out of 5.

Basically the turn it up to 11 of video game reviews. :D

[Ghostbear]

Um, please qoute me where I did mention about a score? Usually I agree with ythem. Nice way for a mod to act.

Hah! I apologize, I meant to post someone, not you.

As for how I acted? Not sure what you're talking about. I didn't threaten, nor was my tone angry. but hey, everyone is allowed to score the game however they like. No skin off my nose.

[Rune_74]

Hah! I apologize, I meant to post someone, not you.

As for how I acted? Not sure what you're talking about. I didn't threaten, nor was my tone angry. but hey, everyone is allowed to score the game however they like. No skin off my nose.

Oh. Ok...maybe I missread it, seemed like a snarky answer:) No problem then.

[Ghostbear]

Also, I think this is appropriate at times. :)

723924

[Wolvie]

From another thread, my one gripe with the UI:

One of the only complaints I have with it. It's a tad inconvenient to have to check active effects to see that you're sick. And considering the fact that the game likes to tell you in big bold text that you've increased your skill meter by 1/8th of an inch whenever it can, the fact that it doesn't also let you know that you just got rock joint is... confusing.

[Ghostbear]

Let me be clear, I am including things like the map interface in the UI. Things like inventory management. I also want to make clear that while they were a factor in it being a 4. They were not the only factor. I the game is a gem, no doubt, but it is flawed.

Allow me to quote myself:

As I hinted at in the review, breaking this game down into its component parts forces the cracks to show. The pacing is glacial, the characters are forgettable, and the main plot is more of the tired "you are the chosen one" However it's all these things together combined with all the little awesome moments that make this series worthwhile. Indeed I intend to keep playing off and on for the foreseeable future.

All of these combined are why the game got a meager 4/5 which is awful, I know.

[Ghostbear]

Oh. Ok...maybe I missread it, seemed like a snarky answer:) No problem then.

You didn't misread, I wrote the wrong thing.

[Wolvie]

The game itself outside of a few small nits that need picking, I have zero complaints. The graphical hiccups and bugs are what really bother me. I've seen NPC's teleport and disappear! I've seen the dragon skeleton(from the first one I killed at the watch tower) drop out of the sky and land in front of Whiterun after I exited outside from the main gate.

There are no game breaking bugs that I've seen on the console version. Just a bunch of annoying immersion breakers.

[Superman's Dead]

Yeah. I sat and thought about it; I'd be upset if Batman got a 4, but with Skyrim it makes sense. And I like Skyrim better than Batman. But I've already hit one glitched quest (that would be pretty upsetting if I wanted to be a werewolf) and countless silly small bugs.

[PathMaster]

Watched a friend play it for a bit. He started a new character so I can see it from the start. I have not played Morrowind or Oblivion, but he has told me tons about them both. He likes the game so far.

He did mention the sickness thing..said he did not even know he had something until a town person mentioned it. I saw him use the UI to play around with the menus and perks. He used WASD to great effect and it was very fast. He seemed to have no issues at all really. He had only played to like level 8 or so, so take that for what it is.

Looks fun..I think I might grab Oblivion in the Steam Sale going on at the moment.

[Ghostbear]

I suppose I should provide an example of what I think an excellent UI for an RPG looks like. I present The Witcher 2

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g302/ghostbear1/web%20hosted%20pics/witcher2_2011_11_16_20_00_11_122.jpg
http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g302/ghostbear1/web%20hosted%20pics/witcher2_2011_11_16_20_00_31_770.jpg
http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g302/ghostbear1/web%20hosted%20pics/witcher2_2011_11_16_20_00_42_705.jpg

That information is displayed with one button press each.

They should figure out who did this one:
http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g302/ghostbear1/web%20hosted%20pics/beta00.png

[MagGnome]

4/5 COGS? How dare you!!! :mad:

All kidding aside, I am having a ton of fun with Skyrim. In fact, instead of posting more, I am going to go play for a while before bed.

My only complaint with the game is the UI, which is simply awful on the PC. It's not designed with the mouse in mind whatsoever, and is clearly a holdover from the consoles. Earlier today I was trying to talk to an innkeeper, and instead of getting the latest rumors, which is what I clicked on, I ended up renting a room for 10 gold. Ugh. I am trying to get used to just using the keyboard instead. The keyboard works better for the UI system, but it still has issues. It's just not very informative.

[Hawkzombie]

From another thread, my one gripe with the UI:

Yeah...I didn't even know I was sick until people told me 'Hey, you don't look so good.'

Didn't even know how to check to see if I -was- until I read some of the Help Files in the System section.

[Rune_74]

You seriously thought the witcher had a good UI? I didn't like the way inventory worked at all.

I think what I like about the UI for skyrim is that it never really takes you out of the game for more then a second...it is quick and not a completely new screen.

[Ghostbear]

I do! It quickly and concisely displayed the information I needed. With a minimum of fuss. What armor am I wearing? Hit "I" what is my next skill? hit "c" The inventory was organized by item type and use. It isn't as flashy as Skyrim's but it certainly is more useful.

[violent]

I gauge the effectiveness of an interface by how easily my muscle memory adapts to it. Sadly, almost 20 hours in and I still fumble. The only fault so far in the game which shines brightly considering how wonderful almost every other aspect is.

[Hawkzombie]

Yeah, I don't get the UI hate...other than the whole 'active powers' thing being buried and not informing you of diseases, and the perk screen being a little cumbersome...the UI isn't so bad. Not the greatest, but not the worst I've ever dealt with either.

[AversionFX]

How funny that I specifically thought of The Witcher 2's terrible UI when contemplating on how much I hate Skyrim's UI.

When you are dealing with a shit ton of items, no sort of categorizing outside of alphabetical is horrible. This is most egregious is when it comes to Apparel and Potions. DRAUGHT of ... POTION of ... PHILTER of ... It's just bad. There's no sort of organization there, and since it's only alphabetical, I have varying strengths of potion all over the place. I used a mod for Oblivion that basically clumped like-items together. It would be nice if items were clumped by type and then alphabetical.

I'm carrying my Nightingale armor as well as my Thieves Guild set, and inbetween both sets of gear are like, 600 different types of stolen jewelry. It's unintuitive and messy, and it spurns me that I cannot fix it.

My second gripe is that the UI tends to kick me out of shops when I click around. I've gotten into the habit of using the keyboard to navigate stores, but it's still annoying.

Even with how bad the UI is, Skyrim is easily my GOTY. The wait was definitely worth it.

[RandoM51]

The interface is hideous. I hear it is slightly less hideous with a controller.

Not only are there some really bad design decisions in there it is downright buggy.

For instance, when storing items if I store one of something instead of staying on the stack I've selected it will often switch focus to the next item above. It will keep doing this until the selected item is OFF THE SCREEN. Moving at all is bad, moving UP instead of DOWN is really bad. You can't just keep hitting the store item key because it will jump all on its own to something you don't want to store and then you have to back out a level, switch to container, and then take the item you stored because of the bug back out.

There are other instances of this where the mouse and keyboard aren't in agreement as to what is selected in the UI. This makes me pick the wrong dialogue choice quite often.

Get rid of the bugs and it'd still be a horrible UI, but at least it wouldn't be actively thwarting my endeavors. :P

[roboninja]

I just do not see how the UI is much better on the console. My main gripes have nothing to do with horrible mouse support (which does exist); it is more due to the lack of sorting options. Trying to use a healing potion: scroll through list of ~75 potions. Draught of Healing? Nope, none of those...scroll, scroll, scroll, Philter of Healing? Nope, none of those...scroll, ahh, Potion of Minor Health, select, use.

Cannot run because I am carrying too much? What do I have that weighs a lot I can sell? Who the fuck knows?!?

Again, I'll add the caveat: This may be the best game ever IMO. But the UI is atrocious.

[muddi900]

Skyrim is just another Battlefield 3 with swords instead of guns and dragons instead of tanks. Magic instead of repair kits.

yes, I live in the shadow of violent

Glitches instead of 12 year old douchebags



I suppose I should provide an example of what I think an excellent UI for an RPG looks like. I present The Witcher 2

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g302/ghostbear1/web%20hosted%20pics/witcher2_2011_11_16_20_00_11_122.jpg
http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g302/ghostbear1/web%20hosted%20pics/witcher2_2011_11_16_20_00_31_770.jpg
http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g302/ghostbear1/web%20hosted%20pics/witcher2_2011_11_16_20_00_42_705.jpg

That information is displayed with one button press each.

They should figure out who did this one:
http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g302/ghostbear1/web%20hosted%20pics/beta00.png


Yeah, that's a terrible example. Not as terrible as Skyrim, but still terrible.

[Dualshotty23]

I just do not see how the UI is much better on the console. My main gripes have nothing to do with horrible mouse support (which does exist); it is more due to the lack of sorting options. Trying to use a healing potion: scroll through list of ~75 potions. Draught of Healing? Nope, none of those...scroll, scroll, scroll, Philter of Healing? Nope, none of those...scroll, ahh, Potion of Minor Health, select, use.

Cannot run because I am carrying too much? What do I have that weighs a lot I can sell? Who the fuck knows?!?

Again, I'll add the caveat: This may be the best game ever IMO. But the UI is atrocious.

If they added a "favorites" for potions/foods and a "favorites" type menu for weapons/apparel it would make a big difference as i am always nervous of accidentally selling something i dont want to. these two menus would be a vast improvement and great benefit.

On second thought it would be nice if it wouldnt let you sell anything you were wearing, you had to unequip it before you could sell.

[NotJeff]

Yeah, that's a terrible example. Not as terrible as Skyrim, but still terrible.

Even if you don't like the inventory in Witcher 2 (I haven't played enough of it to comment, yet), you MUST like the skills-advancement screen better, no? That's the one that really kills me in Skyrim from a usability standpoint. You don't have all the trees available on the screen at once, and you can't mouse over to know what the perks do -- instead you need to actually navigate the trees. This is surprisingly difficult with a keyboard, gets a little better when you use a mouse. But regardless of the control method, the design choice makes it harder to do what I want to do: quickly and easily evaluate a skill constellation, or maybe a few of them at once.

[Wolvie]

I just do not see how the UI is much better on the console. My main gripes have nothing to do with horrible mouse support (which does exist); it is more due to the lack of sorting options. Trying to use a healing potion: scroll through list of ~75 potions. Draught of Healing? Nope, none of those...scroll, scroll, scroll, Philter of Healing? Nope, none of those...scroll, ahh, Potion of Minor Health, select, use.

Cannot run because I am carrying too much? What do I have that weighs a lot I can sell? Who the fuck knows?!?

Again, I'll add the caveat: This may be the best game ever IMO. But the UI is atrocious.

Again, just add it to your fav list! Then you can quickly gulp that health potion, easy peasy.

It's not the system you're on, it's learning to effectively use the tools the devs have given you.

Yeah...I didn't even know I was sick until people told me 'Hey, you don't look so good.'

Didn't even know how to check to see if I -was- until I read some of the Help Files in the System section.

Same here. It's kinda silly ya gotta look in the help section of the UI how to see if you're sick or not. I suppose they did it for immersions sake... but like I said before, if they have big bold text blazing across my screen to let me know I got a bit better at wearing heavy armor, they can let me know I got the sniffles.

[muddi900]

Even if you don't like the inventory in Witcher 2 (I haven't played enough of it to comment, yet), you MUST like the skills-advancement screen better, no? That's the one that really kills me in Skyrim from a usability standpoint. You don't have all the trees available on the screen at once, and you can't mouse over to know what the perks do -- instead you need to actually navigate the trees. This is surprisingly difficult with a keyboard, gets a little better when you use a mouse. But regardless of the control method, the design choice makes it harder to do what I want to do: quickly and easily evaluate a skill constellation, or maybe a few of them at once.

The mouse refused to work before patch. As I said, Witcher 2 is not as bad as Skyrim, but not good by any means.

[Mr. Murphy]

Nice review, I think I agree with everything you said about the game. Almost as soon as I started playing it, I wanted a UI mod - and a mod that adds the VATS targeting system from Fallout 3 into the game.

[Vermillion]

You need to "meet the greybeards" for the dragons to start popping.

Not true. I had 3 dragons before I did that quest.

On a related note, I had a dragon attack the Wizard University last night. Let's just say he didn't last long with 5+ mages hammering on him.

I did the most important thing in the game last night. I bought a house. Now I have a place to store all the knickknacks I steal.. I mean find and horde. I mean, you can never have too many skulls or clothes irons right? No more worrying about weight limits. Woowoo!!!

[Wackman3000]

Not true. I had 3 dragons before I did that quest.

On a related note, I had a dragon attack the Wizard University last night. Let's just say he didn't last long with 5+ mages hammering on him.

I did the most important thing in the game last night. I bought a house. Now I have a place to store all the knickknacks I steal.. I mean find and horde. I mean, you can never have too many skulls or clothes irons right? No more worrying about weight limits. Woowoo!!!

You people are aware that you can store your stuff virtually anywhere right? I saved my 5k for a house and instead opted to use a very tiny dungeon I found as my home. It has a place to rest, a couple chests to place your items, and a little grotto for my Argonian so he feels more lizardlike than in a house. ;)

It becomes no different, and actually a bit easier IMO, since I can fast travel to my "house" and not need to wander through the city to get there. I just walk right in the cave to my underground dwelling.

[Exodus]

You people are aware that you can store your stuff virtually anywhere right? I saved my 5k for a house and instead opted to use a very tiny dungeon I found as my home. It has a place to rest, a couple chests to place your items, and a little grotto for my Argonian so he feels more lizardlike than in a house. ;)

It becomes no different, and actually a bit easier IMO, since I can fast travel to my "house" and not need to wander through the city to get there. I just walk right in the cave to my underground dwelling.

Except after you leave that place for 4 days enemies respawn

[Wackman3000]

Except after you leave that place for 4 days enemies respawn

We were actually just discussing this in the IRC chat and people were informing me of such things. Maybe I've just been lucky with my particular dungeon and how much I frequent it, because Ive had no issues so far.

YMMV. :)

[Karak]

I don't understand when you get married the wife would know the home was a cave? That is pretty damn good AI. I wouldn't even have thought about trying that. I may save 5k.

[MagGnome]

For instance, when storing items if I store one of something instead of staying on the stack I've selected it will often switch focus to the next item above. It will keep doing this until the selected item is OFF THE SCREEN. Moving at all is bad, moving UP instead of DOWN is really bad. You can't just keep hitting the store item key because it will jump all on its own to something you don't want to store and then you have to back out a level, switch to container, and then take the item you stored because of the bug back out.

I've run into this exact issue many times. It's often not very clear what item or quest is actually about to be selected. Like you said, it's bad enough that the design is awful, but the bugs make it even worse.

Skyrim is still a fantastic game, but I can't for a decent UI mod.


Yeah, that's a terrible example. Not as terrible as Skyrim, but still terrible.

I think it looks like the Second Coming compared to the Skyrim UI. :p


On second thought it would be nice if it wouldnt let you sell anything you were wearing, you had to unequip it before you could sell.

Agreed! Yesterday I accidentally sold something I was wearing because the silly interface tripped me up. I had to buy it back for double the price. I was not pleased.

Again, it's not enough to ruin what is a fantastic game, but it's astounding to me that they thought the UI was a good idea. Oblivion's had issues but was better than this. Heck Fallout 3 had a nice one as well. What happened?

[Rune_74]

I'm seriously at a loss to how you can find the UI so difficult....? Think of it as a ASWD and TAB UI and it's quite easy. Using the mouse is not required.

[Lithium Flower]

The issues complained of are all real though. I like the HUD a lot, I always used auto-hide and minimalistic UI mods for Oblivion and to have that out of the box is great but the menu systems navigate poorly with the mouse, and the lack of sorting options is trying. It does get much easier to use with the keyboard alone though except that certain prompts require a mouse click.

[TheFlyingOrc]

It would be nice to have more sorting options, that is certainly true. Especially for potions.

I also wish you could sell things the same way as in Fallout, what with choosing everything and then hitting submit to finalize all transactions. Not sure why they took a step backwards on that one.

I'm actually most upset by the lack of hotkeying weapons on the console. I could have 8 guns at the ready in Fallout, why do I need to go to a menu now? I have a lot less fun in combat because of the favorites menu instead of directional weapon selection.

[Exodus]

This stupid game with its stuff that has nothing to do with the main quest taking up as much time as if it were as epic as the main quest.

God dammit why do we need sleep WHY!

[Lithium Flower]

I have only slept 14 hours this week.

[Karak]

I'm seriously at a loss to how you can find the UI so difficult....? Think of it as a ASWD and TAB UI and it's quite easy. Using the mouse is not required.

I have found that "depending on your build of character" it will be difficult or easy. My main character, the UI works great, not a complaint in the world.

My secondary thief mage. Its a but cumbersome. Totally depends on how you use it, how you favorite, and the amount of favorite items as well.

[MagGnome]

I'm seriously at a loss to how you can find the UI so difficult....? Think of it as a ASWD and TAB UI and it's quite easy. Using the mouse is not required.

Navigating with the keyboard does work better, but that's still a pain. I'm willing to accept that sort of clunkiness when playing Dwarf Fortress, but Skyrim is a AAA release with a C-qualtiy UI at best. It looks pretty, but it's a utility nightmare. I can navigate it just fine if I don't touch the mouse, but it is seriously lacking in information, and sorting through a bunch of items is a huge pain in the butt.

The perk system is probably the worst offense, though. Navigating around the star map is a pain with the keyboard or the mouse, and comparing perks is not anywhere near as easy as it should be.

[RandoM51]

I'm seriously at a loss to how you can find the UI so difficult....? Think of it as a ASWD and TAB UI and it's quite easy. Using the mouse is not required.

Actually using a mouse is required at some points. Try disenchanting an item. The enchant window notice popup has an OK button you have to click. Sometimes a "y" will work for these windows, sometimes tab, sometimes enter. None of those work in this case. The only thing I've found that will close that window and allow me to proceed is using the mouse to click OK. Good UI design would allow me to exit a window like that the same way every time. Skyrim does not.

The UI is an inconsistent, buggy piece of shit. If I have a stack of 3 items and store 1 of them in a container, the selection bar in my inventory should stay on the stack of 2 items, correct? That is how every interface in the world like that works and is expected to work. Skyrim's UI flips a coin. Head's it stays on the stack of 2, tails it moves the selection box to the next higher item on the list.Why does it do this? Worse why does it do it seemingly randomly?

I have a dialogue list. I use the keyboard to move up and down the list, but sometimes the highlighted item doesn't move, sometimes the selection icon at the left side doesn't move. I don't know if it is selecting what I want or not. All I'm using is the keyboard. But, since the interface is a broken piece of shit AND I have a mouse plugged into my PC---crazy, who actually has a mouse on their PC?----it gets confused and assumes that just because the mouse pointer is somewhere near that list that it means something. I hit enter to make my selection, but no, what I thought I selected and what Skyrim thinks I selected differ. Other than showing the pointer Skyrim needs to ignore mouse/controller input until you actually press a button, at least while in windows. Again, the way just about every other interface since the dawn of the GUI works.

"Using the mouse is not required" is the dumbest thing I've heard in a long time. I'm not using the mouse because it is required, I'm using the mouse because it is the best pointing device attached to my PC, the best peripheral ever created to interact with a properly designed GUI. HINT: If using a mouse to navigate a GUI on a PC is a problem the problem is not the mouse!

This isn't Dwarf Fortress, Bethesda can and should have done better. All the apologists in the world won't change that. At least DF does what I expect it to. I can learn its bizarre way of doing things such that I can get the results I want every time. Can't do that with Skyrim. Oh hey, just noticed somebody else mentioned DF already. :)

[Dualshotty23]

Also, If you are wearing an item and have two of them and sell one, it auto unequips the one you havent sold so when you're done selling shit you have to go through and re-equip your apparel.

[jpc_theoneandonly]

I went with the console version of this game. I love it but the inventory system is crap. I would like to see a system akin to what was used in Dragon Age: Origins. That inventory and character spec system, IMO, was perfect. Don't neglect your stamina in this game either. The extra carrying weight, especially for a warrior theif that specializes in heavy armor, is crucial. I just hit level 19. I have a kick ass mask that makes me immune to all diseases and poisons, 5 shouts, and have yet to talk to he Grey Beards of High Hrothgar. This game is absolutely massive. It has my vote for game of the year.