Forza 4 CofG Car Club/Rival Thread

[shunoshi]

Ahh, didn't even consider the overcrowding of the garage. I have 2 uploaded:

Evo.10 Gradient - It's painted, tuned, but not what I'd consider "awesome" as I have no clue what I'm doing when it comes to tuning cars.
http://shunoshi.fathomthat.org/misc/Evo%2010%20Gradient.png

Evo.8 Rising Sun - This is a stock Evo.8 with a paint job.
http://shunoshi.fathomthat.org/misc/Rising%20Sun%2001.png

I can remove either or both if they're stinking up the place with their inferiority. :p

[LiquidRain]

Like I said - it's mostly the influx of members who don't post here who are uploading things without explanation and we have no idea why these cars are shared that annoy me. But yeah the overcrowding is getting bothersome in my opinion. (I'm open to dissenting opinions!)

[wyeast]

Shunoshi: You're here, you're talking. To me that's well worth the ticket for admission on sharing a couple of cars,. Particularly the tuned Evo if you're every looking for input on how people thing the tuning's coming out or having tips for further adjustment. :)

Also: YAY! More Liveries! :D

As for inferiority, hell. I've shared a F200 Stinkorama with a plain jane yellow paint job, simply because someone was complaining about the starter challenges. ;)

[Inspector Fowler]

I don't see why garage overcrowding is a problem when you can sort and search. Shit, my SP garage is full of worthless cars I'm afraid to sell for fear it will suddenly require that car for an obscure race between 1973 Belgian muscle cars.

[wyeast]

I think liquid's more mad about lurkers mooching off the club for free achievements without participating in the group. ;)

Also, it is a little bit of a drag when the club garage is cluttered up with bone stock unpainted cars. "oh gee, another red veyron, just like the one I already have" :p

[Inspector Fowler]

I'll say that KungFuBen is my buddy and he's pretty good at racing games. He should provide decent competition for anybody should you sucker him into the Rivals challenges and give him an incentive to improve.

OneSierraAlpha is my cousin. I didn't necessarily invite him, he must be able to see what car club I am in. He's a good dude and I am pretty sure he just wanted to be in on whatever fun I was having.

On that note, I think the club garage could be implemented better.

I think that once the car is in the garage, it should exist once with either multiple tuning and paint jobs as donated by others and selectable via a menu, or you should just be able to tune and upgrade those cars. Money is a moot point in Forza, so they should really rely on the social aspect.

[J Arcane]

Now that I'm slightly less delirious from fever and can remember too, and also because it's on some top 10 racing list on XBL right now, I just wanted to pause to ask you Inspector Fowler if you had tried GRID?

[wyeast]

I think that once the car is in the garage, it should exist once with either multiple tuning and paint jobs as donated by others and selectable via a menu, or you should just be able to tune and upgrade those cars. Money is a moot point in Forza, so they should really rely on the social aspect.
I like that idea! :D

Also, invite your friends to come post up. We won't bite. :o

[Wraith]

Can car club cars be used in season play?

(I did pick the game up this week, just haven't installed it yet.)

[LiquidRain]

Not sure, Wraith. Haven't tried.

In unrelated news, I just found out that it seems that the gift cars for leveling up are pre-tuned to be maxed in their class. This makes a big difference for me, as I was always perplexed that the cars I had were at the top of their class and thus robbed me of the fun of tuning them for my own nefarious purposes. Now I know I can saunter in to the upgrade shop, reset to default, and resume making my low-speed, fast-cornering cars. :)

Still having trouble finding the perfect S class car for me. The LFA is doing okay for me now, but it's not quite the beast in the corners that I like to create. (for reference, my Elise pulls 1.22 lateral G and my Exige pulls 1.17)

[icronic]

Wraith: I'm fairly certain you can.

Still having trouble finding the perfect S class car for me. The LFA is doing okay for me now, but it's not quite the beast in the corners that I like to create. (for reference, my Elise pulls 1.22 lateral G and my Exige pulls 1.17)

Yeah I'm in the same boat. Don't much care for the LFA, there's something really weird about the way it handles. The F50 has been serving my purposes, but I'm really tired of just picking the best Ferrari for each class for the guaranteed win.

I've been trying to tune an R32 to be competitive in the A or S class but so far no dice.

[wyeast]

Not sure, Wraith. Haven't tried.

In unrelated news, I just found out that it seems that the gift cars for leveling up are pre-tuned to be maxed in their class.
Wait, what? Really? :eek:

*goes back into the upgrade shop to go mix things up again* :o

[Inspector Fowler]

I've been using a Nissan 370Z in A and S class races. It kicks ass. I made sure to get all the weight, suspension, and tire stuff done first. Drivetrain, etc. Then I added power until I maxed it out in S class.

With a manual transmission it really kicks ass. Great in the corners and good speed.

[Orca]

I use nothing but the Lancia Delta Integrale EVO up to S class, and once tuned up a bit it destroys everything in the lower classes but if the track has long straightaways at S it just can't compete in top end speed.

[Wraith]

Played around in FM Paint a bit last night. Kind of cheesy with that stock font, and it's just a bunch of stock shapes, but ehh. I've never put much time into learning the editor. (Also, bigshots are not kind to vinyl designs.)

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6040/6283047637_1ff9fee866_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/easytotype/6283047637/)

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6041/6283565134_a3260aea98_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/easytotype/6283565134/)

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6101/6283047511_3f6701eb7d_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/easytotype/6283047511/)

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6229/6283564878_ce9eabef01_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/easytotype/6283564878/)

[LiquidRain]

Nice doodling!

So I've come across a rather strange problem. I have no events available to me at Road Atlanta in World Tour Mode. The game tells me to "buy cars or level up" but the problem is it doesn't tell me what cars I *should* buy! I suppose I could go digging through the event list?

Do you think we're pretty much all done with our Star in a Reasonably Priced Car, to enshrine the results in a post, and move on to our next rival challenge? I know I just smoked some of you in my woefully underpowered Elise going around Infineon, but it'd be cool for someone to make a club car for one of these rivalries.

Or should we wait until Arkham City, BF3, and maybe Uncharted 3 pass over before assigning a new challenge? I'm ready to tackle something else and started dipping into the rivalry pool again tonight, but I'd appreciate a focus. :)

edit: also, Wraith, you'd think they'd be able to do a lot more with the quality of the vinyl textures in photo mode. For chrissake everything in a vinyl is a vector.

[Savok]

I find Forza is something I play in small doses over a length of time rather then all at once. But I don't know, challenge or two a month? Fortnight once the end of year rush has passed?

[GiantAshSnake]

Sent a join request.

TSnake57

[wyeast]

Nice doodling!

So I've come across a rather strange problem. I have no events available to me at Road Atlanta in World Tour Mode. The game tells me to "buy cars or level up" but the problem is it doesn't tell me what cars I *should* buy! I suppose I could go digging through the event list?

I've heard of a couple of "bottlenecks" in the world tour that rely on certain car classifications that stymie a lot of people. One of them for sure is the one where you need a GT2 car (of which I believe one is rewarded at lvl 38) I'll look it up and get back to you.

(edit) Checked the Forza forums. The most common one people are running into is the GT2 thing, but the Road Atlanta one may be "Chevy A-Class Day" in which case an A-Class Vette should do it?

[LiquidRain]

Blargh. This is what I get for gifting my muscle cars away. (seriously, not a muscle car fan)

[Grifter]

I know this probably wouldn't be an issue if I was a better video game race car driver but HOLY FUCKING HELL DO I HATE THE MAD MAX A.I. IN THIS GODDAMNED GAME!!! That is all, thank you for reading. ;)


P.S. SHITCOCK!

[LiquidRain]

No, the AI definitely gets a bit too... intimate, at times, and they're definitely a bunch of jerks. They won't give you an inch on approaching a corner if you're about to overtake them, they'll just let you hit their side as they slowly push you onto the grass.

(Fair game, I do that to them all the time, but that's because they're not humans and like hell I'm not gonna win a race around a track as mindnumbingly boring as Sebring)

[Grifter]

No, the AI definitely gets a bit too... intimate, at times, and they're definitely a bunch of jerks. They won't give you an inch on approaching a corner if you're about to overtake them, they'll just let you hit their side as they slowly push you onto the grass.

(Fair game, I do that to them all the time, but that's because they're not humans and like hell I'm not gonna win a race around a track as mindnumbingly boring as Sebring)

I think the reason why it bugs me so much is the fact that there are no persistent AI characters who's stats and times are tracked from race to race so they have absolutely nothing to gain by driving clean where as their asshattery can cost you the race and/or a decent spot on the leader boards. I honestly don't know how some of these players can get such incredibly good times and keep a clean lap without a bit of luck.

I really wanted to start playing without the race line so I can start teaching myself how to properly read a track but I find that I need the line just to know where to drive to avoid the AI drivers. I pretty much try to drive the opposite of where I'm supposed to be driving.

[Orca]

(Fair game, I do that to them all the time, but that's because they're not humans and like hell I'm not gonna win a race around a track as mindnumbingly boring as Sebring)

That's what makes me laugh when people say they want Drivatar to come back, so you'll be racing against other people's (or your own) Drivatar instead of AI. You think you get rammed in the corners a lot NOW? :D

[Savok]

Just ram them back and into a wall.

[wyeast]

Blargh. This is what I get for gifting my muscle cars away. (seriously, not a muscle car fan)

Just have somebody throw one into the club garage?

[shunoshi]

I don't play nice with the AI; I shamelessly ram them off the road, screw'em.

[Karak]

I don't play nice with the AI; I shamelessly ram them off the road, screw'em.

Me to I smash the fuck out of them, use them as breaks, use them as temporary walls, throw them into others. Its like Karak Cars. Fuck em.

[Inspector Fowler]

You know, in all honesty, I think it's best this way.

Years ago I played and loved GTR on the PC. The physics were fucking incredible and the AI was absolutely vicious. They wouldn't give you an inch - not an inch. They wouldn't ram you, but if you didn't drive perfectly they would pass you up.

When I played with all assists off, using a medium quality PC wheel, I felt lucky to even finish a race at all because of how hard to control the vehicles were and how ruthless the AI was.

So while I clamor for "real" AI, I think this might be as real as it needs to go. Much more "real" and I'll spend all my time losing.

[Grifter]

I'm not worried about real so much as I am abut them being less physically aggressive.

As far as ramming them back goes, it seems you don't have much of a choice in most situations. This generally wouldn't bug me other than the fact that it invalidates your time in relation to the scoreboard and there is nothing more annoying in these types of games than getting a great time only to have it invalidated by some drunken, knuckle dragging AI driver.

[Ancalagon]

Have you guys seen that the November car pack has been announced?

[icronic]

You know, in all honesty, I think it's best this way.

Years ago I played and loved GTR on the PC. The physics were fucking incredible and the AI was absolutely vicious. They wouldn't give you an inch - not an inch. They wouldn't ram you, but if you didn't drive perfectly they would pass you up.

When I played with all assists off, using a medium quality PC wheel, I felt lucky to even finish a race at all because of how hard to control the vehicles were and how ruthless the AI was.

So while I clamor for "real" AI, I think this might be as real as it needs to go. Much more "real" and I'll spend all my time losing.

Well to me real doesn't exactly mean more difficult. I mean I just want AI that can follow the basic rules and etiquette of racing.

Things like if I'm coming up from behind on a narrow road they'll move over to one side so I can safely get by them instead of either slowing way down or risking the dirt just go get by. Or when cornering if I have the inside line they'll take the outside line or vice versa.

You know I don't want them to become sissies afraid of a collision but it would be nice if they had some sense of self preservation. When you're in a prius and you've got an Enzo rocketing towards the turn you're about to enter you're simply not going to start on the outside glide in to the apex and slowly drift back outside again.

I think as far as difficulty goes a new form of (optional) rubber banding should be implemented. Nothing like what you see in EA games, I mean the cars should never perform past their capabilities like certain games. Instead the drivers ahead of you should be more prone to mistakes or bad corners while the opponents behind you drive better. Wouldn't be entirely unrealistic either, since I generally seem to drive better when I'm behind and worse when I'm ahead.

But really I think for the next gen of race sims the AI needs an overhaul. It's really the only thing left that really needs to be improved upon.

[Khrymsyn]

Things like if I'm coming up from behind on a narrow road they'll move over to one side so I can safely get by them instead of either slowing way down or risking the dirt just go get by. Or when cornering if I have the inside line they'll take the outside line or vice versa.

Strangely enough, even in real racing, the rule isn't quite as cut and dried as you'd think...

Most of the time, in real racing, the basic rule is, the guy behind is the one that's responsible for not causing an accident, NOT the car in front. In other words, if you're gaining on a car into a turn, unless you got nose even or AHEAD of the opposing car before the turn in, you are supposed to back off, not visa versa. If you don't, you'll likely get black flagged or worse. (if you ARE even, then yes, you and the opponent are supposed to hold racing lines and not cut each other off)

Now, to those exceptions, when you've got a multi-class race, then the slower class IS supposed to move over for the faster classes, and if you're a lapped car, you're supposed to move over for the faster cars.

But other than that, unless you're ahead, it's up to you to make the pass safe, not the person in front of you.

[Khrymsyn]

Real quick tidbit gang. I've invited a good friend of mine Boosy to join our CofG group. Please don't boot him. =)

[LiquidRain]

Jesus fuck playing with pubbies can be frustrating. I miss you guys. :(

[J Arcane]

Sorry, I've been ill. I plan to really dig in on holiday, I hope to be well by then.

I'll warn you though, I can kickass in single player but on the leader boards and in MP I'm probably just traffic.

[Grifter]

Sorry man, been too busy killing dragons and stealing dinner wear. I'll be back eventually.

[LiquidRain]

Playing with pubbies is less a matter of skill and more a matter of how lucky you are in not getting rammed from behind or the side on a turn. The first turn decides who wins. Whoever goes unscathed proceeds to victory, and one or two unlucky bums are always upsidedown. It's a frustrating fuckshow.

Looking forward to playing again with you folks sometime once the Christmas season mayhem dies down. :)

[J Arcane]

Ooh, I should probably warn people. I can be a bit of an aggressive driver as well ... think something between BTCC, and Top Gear cast races ...

[Savok]

Yeah I don't think I'd be much better then a pubbie...

[LiquidRain]

Allow me to clarify.

Playing with a lower skill driver you might get bumped from behind.

Playing with a pubbie you are likely to get bumped from behind. With them going full speed. On purpose.

[wyeast]

Yes, when racing with my crew, there's a fair amount of colliding going on. But it's always either:

a) With a swift apology and backing off, or
b) Full-tilt on purpose with cackling.

Usually, however, those (b) cases are done towards the end of the night full on demolition derby style just to have some laughs before the night is through. :D

... but not always... :eek: ;)

Also, I didn't realize you bastiches were actually racing real-time together! I thought it was all rivalry challenges! *shakes tiny fist of tears* :o

[Savok]

But how else do you turn corners without bouncing off someone else?

[LiquidRain]

wyeast: If you have a regular racing crew I'd love to join in on any racing nights you guys may have. Racing pubbies suuuuuuucks.

[Vandabo]

I feel bad for completely abandoning this game and you guys... But damn it there are so many awesome games right now. I completely lost my Forza momentum when I had a week-long business trip, then I come back to BF3, Skyrim and now Saints Row 3! #firstworldproblems

[wyeast]

But how else do you turn corners without bouncing off someone else?
Stack in some AI cars, and use THEM as bumpers. ;)

On a related note - running Multi-Class on Dunsfold w/ the AI as the slow cars creates some amusing results after a couple of laps. :D

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/Wyeast/lagmonkey/Forza%204/uhoh.jpg

wyeast: If you have a regular racing crew I'd love to join in on any racing nights you guys may have. Racing pubbies suuuuuuucks.

It's a little less common these days w/ Skyrim and Arkham out, but if you see me in a party w/ Forza running, just give us a holler. :)

Be warned, those guys are little more laid back - think more leisurely drive, less NASCAR. ;)

Even if it's just me, I'm usually just painting or testing something, so I could be talked into at least hassling the pubbies with you. ;)

[LiquidRain]

Yeah I finished rounding out most of my garage and testing to the best of my abilities, though I've got to go through and tune things a bit better now. Thanks for the invite. :)

Did you guys see the Forza Motorsport Tuning Calculator (http://forums.forzamotorsport.net/forums/1/4859908/ShowThread.aspx)? It uses all sorts of crazy maths to allow you to tune your cars without having to fiddle with so many bits in-game. I have to admit I don't fully understand its workings, or how it tunes the car "by default", but I got a much better gear ratio out of that spreadsheet than anything I could come up with for my Exige. I'd still like to tune it to be a little less squirrely and have less oversteer, but not sure if that'd impact my turn-in or not.

Before you use the spreadsheet though, make sure you follow the instructions on the forum page, they are critical! Especially the part about enabling the Analyzer Pak add-on for Excel!

[wyeast]

Oh snap! Thanks for that. I used to use it a lot during the FM2/FM3 days. I was waiting for the update to FM4. :D

[J Arcane]

So is there anyway to at least import tuning setups, or am I going to have to rebuild my 2.4s Fairlady from scratch with a pad and pen?

EDIT: and what about paint jobs? Probably not with the new models I'm guessing.

[wyeast]

From FM3?

Tune Setups - No. They overhauled the upgrade system, and with the new tire / physics data, old tune setups were unlikely to be a straight port anyway.

Paint Jobs - Whole cars, no. But you can import "vinyl groups". Just be sure not to have any duplicate names. For whole cars it's suggested to save the entire side as one group if you don't already have subgroups saved (so a single car would be 4-6 groups depending on if the left/right sides were mirrored/symmetrical, and if you had decal'd the wing)

[LiquidRain]

Gotta teach me how to use that spreadsheet proper, Wyeast. Or maybe I should watch that 30 minute long video.

[J Arcane]

Well, I've finally gotten well enough to play some bloody Forza again, and I must say, I found myself rather annoyed at two holdovers from the previous game that frankly, should have died in a fire.

Small things first: Why does Turn 10 feel that the number of cylinders in a vehicle's engine is some kind of state secret? I get all these graphs with meaningless numbers, and I get the HP and the torque and even the displacement, but a simple "V8" or "V6" was just too much? And for that matter, once again there's no descriptions for any of the damn cars. Would just a couple of paragraphs really kill them? It just feels like once again, I'm being given as little information about each car as possible, and so I tend to stick to cars I already know all about. I miss GT's descriptions, and I'd like to know things like 0-60 times and top speed in real numbers without having to buy the damn car first.

Second thing, and it's much bigger: FUCK YOU, CINEMATIC START. Just give me the controls, count down, and let me handle the fucking engine revs. Instead, the game takes over so it can shake the camera all dramatic, rev me at the wrong rate, then dump me in control with half a second to spare. I fuck up the start EVERYTIME. I don't have those kinds of reflexes, starts are hard enough for me as it is, at least let me be in control the whole time so I can work out my own rhythm.

I think as it is I'm going to have to give up on the rival challenges. I can't beat any of you off the line. I'm already working at a handicap because I can't drive manual, and trying to find a starting groove with this fucking cinematic start bullshit is all but impossible. I've been trying like hell, but I haven't beat a single one of you in SIARPC, or even managed to get a respectable time for the real show's board. I've never been that good at time trials but when I'm starting with at least a three second handicap EVERYTIME, well, it just kills my chances dead.

I'm also not sure I care for the new career system either. It's nice that now having to pick a boring race means only the one race, not a whole series, and I like that all the choices pay equally (not counting bonuses) so you don't get totally screwed for taking a lower class race. But I swear it always picks the classes where I don't have a car I want to actually drive . . .

[J Arcane]

Oh, and in case desired for ego stroking, it was Inspector Fowler I couldn't beat this time, though I almost caught up at Gambon my last try.

Last time I tried it was Vandabo, but I guess he's gone past me in the leader board now.

[Wraith]

I'm already working at a handicap because I can't drive manual...Have you tried out manual shifting? I switched from auto to manual (no clutch) sometime in Forza 3 and found it wasn't hard at all to pick up.

[J Arcane]

Have you tried out manual shifting? I switched from auto to manual (no clutch) sometime in Forza 3 and found it wasn't hard at all to pick up.
Yes. Many, many times. I have an issue with the necessary multitasking, it's a crossed wire or something, I just can't keep track of the gear shift and the clutch and what gear I'm in, I get all confused and wind up driving off a corner into a tree in second gear. Even flappy paddle style, with just an up and down button, I just can't do it.

I think it's the same reason I can't play a full drum kit, it's just more going on at once than my brain can handle. I did have a bump on the head as a kid they said affected my coordination, and this seems to be one of the ways.

[Khrymsyn]

Arcane, unfortunately it seems in this game, not driving a manual, at least in challenges with slower cars, is a pretty big disadvantage. Also, to make it worse, the "cinematic start" that you're referring to? I don't believe controls the revs automatically when you're set to manual with clutch...

I've tried my hardest to get used to manual, and so far so good, but I just can't get the clutch usage in my brain (or fingers) at ALL.

[LiquidRain]

The cinematic start really is a bunch of bullshit; I have to agree. And it's only available on manual with clutch? Argh!

[wyeast]

Jarc:

Pick a diff rivalry. Yes, the top gear is most obvious but other challenges aren't as reliant on the line start. Yes, some of us are logging times from the first lap, but only because we're juicing the rewards. For our sake, if you want to play along and use a running start on lap 2, slow down a little, just enough to beat us at the start, so that the good times keep a-rolling. :)

As for the world tour, back up, pick a different car, the go back into "race, world tour" often then the choices will have changed.

[Vandabo]

I hate the cinematic start as well, but I can confirm that it lets you control the revs in manual w/clutch mode. I'm also here to say that using manual is a HUGE advantage. So many of the cars shift way before they need to, and in some cars the only time you have any power is right near the top of the rev band. Using the clutch helps not lose as many of those precious revs while shifting.

It's a great game but there are definitely still some issues that could have been avoided.

[Inverarity]

Got a quick question, since I've seen lots of praise for the Wireless Speed Wheel on this thread: how long did it take you to get used to driving with it?

I picked one up on sale last night, and my first impressions were pretty good. After a while, though, my driving seemed to get worse and worse, and I'm pretty sure it wasn't just my middling Forza skills. I ended up careening all over the place, and I'd even occasionally just spear off to the side on a straight. Coming out of a rewind, it seemed impossible to predict where the steering would be when the game resumed. Most disturbingly, there were times when I'd start a turn, and the wheel graphic (and my car) would stay perfectly straight before suddenly jumping about 60 degrees, with disastrous results.

Have I got a bad controller? Am I just using the thing wrong? Does it need to be held at a certain angle to register motion properly? Any recommendations?