[Review] OnLive Micro Console

[Mot Wakorb]

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System: OnLive Micro Console
MSRP: $99.99
Editor: Curt "Mot Wakorb" LeCaptain

Editor's Note: This is a review of the OnLive Microconsole only. This is a dedicated device that connects to your TV so you don't need a PC, Mac, or 360/PS3 console to game, you can do so via this device. There is OnLive software that is free to install on your Mac or PC, which does the exact same functionality as this device. The interface is the same, the exception is you bring the controls to the party instead of having a pack-in controller.


What's Hot: Power-on "anywhere" instant gaming that delivers a pretty solid experience, provided that you have the bandwidth to support it. Supports Multiple platforms, with no entry cost if you're gaming on PC or Mac.

What's Not: Needing internet to play your games, a slow update time on game patches, bandwidth requirements may not fit everyone. Graphics aren't fully up to par with PC counterparts due to being locked at 720p.


The Hardware:

The Microconsole is neatly packaged and is really an "out of the box" experience - it includes an OnLive controller, the Microconsole, an HDMI cable, an ethernet cable, the power cable, a Micro USB cable to charge and sync the controller, two AA batteries and a rechargable controller pack. The system does get a bit warm as you're playing but isn't anything major when it comes to handling - it's not something that will burn a hand or hurt anyone. It also feels solid, so if you were to drop it or something were to happen to it, it doesn't feel like it would be any worse for the wear. It includes two USB ports which can accept any standard USB Keyboard and mouse, the OnLive controller, a 360 Controller, and a few others that are specifically supported by OnLive. For $99, it gives you a pretty PC experience for a very low entry cost, with some caveats.

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The Microconsole Rear - Ethernet, Optical Audio, Power, Headphone Jack, HDMI, and Component Jack

The Controller:

The included controller seems like a 360 controller and PS3 controller decided to have a child. The controller is mostly styled after a 360 controller in size, weight, and battery pack, however, the control pad and left stick are both styled after a PS3 controller in positioning. The controller feels nice in the hands and doesn't feel cheap. The two sticks offer a decent amount of resistance as do the two triggers. The button layout is that of a 360 controller as many PC games that support a controller support the 360 layout by default. The only disappointing part of the controller itself is the d-pad. While it seems much like a PS3 D-Pad, it feels cheaper than a PS3 D-Pad and not nearly as responsive. It's about the only complaint I have with the controller.

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The front of the OnLive Controller

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Bumpers, Triggers, and a Micro USB port!

Setup:

Setup of the console itself is simple, especially noting most (not all necessarily) of the cables needed to play are in the box. Plug in your microconsole to power, an ethernet port, and HDMI to your TV and you're ready to go. Power up the console, plug in the OnLive controller that is included via Micro USB cable (also included) and it will auto-sync the controller via wireless. The Micro Console will automatically update the system when it detects an internet connection (and the controller, strangely) and reboot itself so you're ready to play. From there, you log in with OnLive and proceed onto their interface. The only thing where they could have improved here was including the optional $29.99 component video cable package, which is available on their website.

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Everything included to get started - with an HDTV

Interface:

The main interface is pretty simple and pretty clearly based on the Xbox Platform. From the main panel, you can access your games, your profile, the OnLive marketplace, your friends list, brag clips you've created, games you've played recently, a showcase that is mainly videos/advertisements for the OnLive service, and the arena, which is OnLive's matchmaking service. A rather neat feature of the matchmaking service, however, is the ability to view another player's game, mid game. Don't feel like playing yourself? Watch someone else play live if they've enabled viewing of their game. This is a great way to preview a game without purchasing yourself.

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Mid-game, you can hit the OnLive button (or 360 guide button if using a 360 controller) and bring up panels that're also clearly based on ideas brought forth from Xbox Live. You can swipe left and right to see achivements, other games, start creating a brag video, quit a game or shut down the Micro Console, settings, messaging, and voice chat. It feels very inspired by the Xbox Live experience and that isn't necessarily a bad thing.

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Marketplace:

The marketplace is easy to browse - tabbed areas allow you to see what's featured, what specials are available, what's new, what is in the playpack, browse by genre and search. The interface is nothing more than a list, however, so browsing can become tedious. All of the games are PC games that support either the keyboard or mouse as controls or certain controllers. The only thing missing is what version the games are at - whether or not they've been patched to fix certain issues within would be a nice touch to be able to have. Another feature that is pretty nice is the ability to play nearly all the games (with the caveat being all of the newest games) for thirty minutes. No watered down experience, you get the first thirty minutes free. You can choose to do the thirty minute trial more than once, but saved games will not remain available unless you purchase.

Another feature the Marketplace has is a subscription service for $9.99 a month that gives access to 80+ games via the service with no added cost. The PlayPass also gives a discount on any purchased games of 30% off, which is a pretty decent deal if you're purchasing multiple games over time. The games aren't all AAA titles, but include some indie favorites as well as some gaming classics.

Gameplay:

All the previous information is fine and dandy, but what about the gameplay itself? That's the most important thing when it comes to a device like this, and honestly, I was pretty impressed with how well the OnLive service ran as a whole. OnLive doesn't make any secret of what kind of requirements they have for their service. The minimum bandwidth needed to run the OnLive service is 2Mbit, however, they recommend you have 5Mbit of internet available. OnLive will work on most PCs, netbooks, and Intel-based Macs as well as the Microconsole. The games run at a maximum resolution of 1280x720 (720p) and run as low as 1024x576. I had purchased a boxed PC copy of Deus Ex: Human Revolution, so I tested the OnLive console using this game on my older 42" Samsung 720p DLP TV.

The initial load screen took a while, as the service needed to load the game. Unfortunately, the version of the game OnLive is using is the original 1.0.0.0 release, so load times were long and tedious. Once I was able to get into the game, the video quality as well as audio quality was spot-on. I played through the initial portion of the game and encountered a few issues but none that I would consider show stopping. First, the game has jagged edges - don't expect FSAA to be enabled in the games. It's a tradeoff for video quality versus bandwidth used, which may turn off some gamers. The sound itself comes through in full 5.1 surround sound, so if you're hooking this up via your optical audio or via HDMI, you won't be disappointed in how these games sound.

One thing I was also definitely concerned with was input lag and input options. Playing PC games now for many years, keyboard and mouse for many games are the only way to go, and I wanted to make sure I could continue using the control styles I wanted. Fortunately, the console is USB based, and nearly all HID-Compliant devices work with the Micro Console. I used two sets of input, a Logitech G510 gaming keyboard and G5 gaming mouse as well as a simple cheap Logitech Keyboard and optical mouse and both worked right away. The system also worked very well with the OnLive controller as well as a wired 360 controller. I did not get a chance to try the wireless 360 adapter and controller although OnLivefans.com's forums note that the 360 wireless adapter and controllers work perfectly with multiple controllers.

Another issue I found was I had a bit of studdering as I was going through the game. It wasn't that the game felt choppy, I just didn't feel like I was getting around 60 FPS in-game. When you're used to a video card that can handle the framerates needed, this can be somewhat jarring as well, but can be looked past. I did have a minor bandwidth issue where I started spinning around without control, which then led to an overlay screen warning me about bandwidth issues for about two seconds before regaining control. It was a momentary lapse, but one that could be fatal in a gunfight.

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OnLive does deliver by far in one aspect - if you have access to "the cloud", you have access to your games. The graphics themselves were just as good as a game on 360 or PS3 running at 720p, granted that the bandwidth is available. If the bandwidth isn't available, expect an experience much like running Netflix on PS3 or 360 - the lower the bandwidth, the lower the video and audio quality. They sacrifice on these two fronts so that they don't ruin the actual experience of playing the game itself. It also delivers in that it doesn't matter if I'm running on PC, Mac, or the OnLive console - all offer the same experience and have my saves sitting in the cloud, waiting for me.

When I spoke to the folks at the OnLive booth at PAX Prime this year, they made sure to let me know that you want to be within 1000 miles of one of their three datacenters: Virginia, Texas, and the San Francisco area. If you're not, they did note that you may have a diminished gameplay experience. Just one more caveat for the cloud service itself - it would be nice if they also offered a midwest datacenter, perhaps at a major hub location such as Chicago.

The final limitation I found was that the OnLive service can only play games with OnLive subscribers, even though the games themselves are PC versions of the games. You cannot connect to external services such as Gamespy for Borderlands or Games for Windows Live for games like Batman: Arkham Asylum. This can turn some people off as the OnLive community isn't nearly as large as the PC, 360, or PS3 community and limits the ability to play games online with friends.

Conclusion:

As a whole, the OnLive Micro Console is a pretty great experience, especially when entering with the opinion that I wasn't going to be impressed by the service itself. Honestly, I had pretty low expectations. I came out of the experience finding that the service was pretty solid and a contender for people that want a PC experience without paying for a PC, or the on-the-go gamer that doesn't have a laptop that is powerful enough to play everything you own on Steam, but has the bandwidth wherever they're travelling to be able to connect to the OnLive service and play where they left off anywhere else.

Score: 4 out of 5 CoGs
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Curt says: "If you're a gamer on the go that has the bandwidth but not the machine to play current PC games and want to do so at a pretty low cost, you can't go wrong with the OnLive Service or OnLive Micro Console."

[divinechaos]

Wait... I ain't too good at this whole "reading comprehension" thing but what I got from this is that this thing hooks up to your laptop and then whatever PC game you buy, this will play it? Because if that's the case then I would LOVE one of these.

After actually learning about this thing: I get it, I thought you could use a CD-ROM but now I see that its an online library of games. Does it handle online gaming at all? Because if I got this I'd do it for Battlefield and I don't see an option for a headset.

[Mot Wakorb]

Wait... I ain't too good at this whole "reading comprehension" thing but what I got from this is that this thing hooks up to your laptop and then whatever PC game you buy, this will play it? Because if that's the case then I would LOVE one of these.

I will clarify - no, this attaches to your TV. OnLive has their own games on the service - there are no discs or owned hard copy software. Everything stays in the cloud. There is a PC and Mac client that allows you to do the exact same things as the console, but on top of your existing PC/Mac without needing a hardware upgrade to play, just internet.

Edit: I updated the original post with an editor's note to clarify.

[Karak]

Fair review. I love mine, it fits a particular use in my home and its fantastic. Starting a game and realizing that its just...there playing in just a few seconds is so amazing.

[Vandabo]

I thought if you have a PC or Mac it just runs as a service on the computer without any extra hardware.

Thanks for the review, it's definitely a cool step forward for cloud gaming.

Edit: beaten to it

[Mot Wakorb]

I thought if you have a PC or Mac it just runs as a service on the computer without any extra hardware.

Thanks for the review, it's definitely a cool step forward for cloud gaming.

Correct. I'm just reviewing the hardware component that we received at PAX, you don't need this to use the OnLive service - you can get their software completely free for PC/Mac.

[Mike Kelehan]

Does it handle online gaming at all? Because if I got this I'd do it for Battlefield and I don't see an option for a headset.

It does handle online gaming, but I believe it only lets you play other OnLive users. Which means ping times are nearly zero, but it also means you can't play with your friends.

[J Arcane]

You know, conceptually I think it's a neat idea, and I look forward to what it could do for the PC market, but personally I can't see much actual use for it.

I actually own a good gaming PC, so admittedly maybe this doesn't make me the target market, but conceptually I'd like the idea of being able to also play the same games on my crummy front-room emulator PC, or my iPad, or had I one, a laptop.

But in order to do so, I would have to spend full retail for essentially two copies of the game: one "real" copy from Steam or a retail store so I can take advantage of my gaming hardware, and then the lo-fi streaming copy from OnLive to play it on the other machines. Which is just ridiculous. I hate that Gamestop is strongarming against the OnLive coupon concept because it would really help with this issue.

The other problem is the way this works. Unlike even Steam, you really don't own your stuff at all, it isn't even on your machine anywhere. Your game, your saves, all of it are all on OnLive's servers, which means they're going to be completely independent of your Steam saves and the like, and if something happens to your games, like say, that 3 year time limit in the fine print on OnLive purchases runs out, or the service goes tits up because they've been overspending like crazy, then you are SOL on every level. There's no patch that's gonna make those purchases playable again because you don't even have the data.

If I didn't have a gaming PC already, I could almost see going for something like this, but considering that most of their library is all cross-platform stuff anyway, I'd do just as well to just buy more games for my 360.

[Mot Wakorb]

It does handle online gaming, but I believe it only lets you play other OnLive users. Which means ping times are nearly zero, but it also means you can't play with your friends.

You are correct. The last paragraph before my conclusion mentions this - you can only play with friends. That said, you can also do voice chat, but it is considered in beta. I did not get a chance to test voice chat out.

[AniAko]

I played around with my console for a bit, and I felt it was a good experience being one of the first completely cloud gaming experiences. I experienced the same kind of "frame-drop" like lag, it wasn't very often, but it was often enough that I noticed it. Most definitely a connection issue on my part, but annoying enough when I'm using the recommended 5Mb connection. That makes me feel that it's just a TAD ahead of it's time, preventing if from making a big splash with people that don't have fat ISP pipes.

I'd LOVE to try this at work on our 80/20 FiOS line :D

[Ghostbear]

Messing with mine, I see potential, but I don't think I am the market. I have a good PC, 360 and ps3. I am not particularly sure what this adds. I can see potential for gaming while traveling, but as we all know hotel internet is typically crap. Still, to get pretty good PC gaming without the PC? That's neat.

[Bone]

I like it. One feature I didn't see mentioned is the offering of rentals- 3-day and 5-day rentals- and you start playing instantly. The same goes for demos of games. Actually the game browser "wall" interface impressed me a lot. I watched some random OnLive user playing a game, decided to try it, and jumped right into the demo.

On a budget, you could do a lot worse than a system like this. Obviously if you own consoles and a PC the draw is lessened, but I do already intend to use it for renting those games I don't see me spending more than a week on.

So, if you're the kind of person who doesn't want to maintain a competitive gaming PC, or just doesn't like to buy games all the time, this is very much the Netflix of gaming and I think there could be a huge market for something like this.

[ElektroDragon]

So how does it send all your input (controller, keyboard or mouse) over the net to the server hosting the game and still not LAG LIKE HELL. That's what I'd like to know.

[Bone]

I imagine a little bit of prediction on top of the high network requirements. My experience was good, but I'd probably stick to single-player games.

[Ghostbear]

Bone, you make a good point about the rentals. I think that will be useful indeed for me when we do games I dont want to buy for the FUDcast.

[Karak]

I like it. One feature I didn't see mentioned is the offering of rentals- 3-day and 5-day rentals- and you start playing instantly. The same goes for demos of games. Actually the game browser "wall" interface impressed me a lot. I watched some random OnLive user playing a game, decided to try it, and jumped right into the demo.

On a budget, you could do a lot worse than a system like this. Obviously if you own consoles and a PC the draw is lessened, but I do already intend to use it for renting those games I don't see me spending more than a week on.

So, if you're the kind of person who doesn't want to maintain a competitive gaming PC, or just doesn't like to buy games all the time, this is very much the Netflix of gaming and I think there could be a huge market for something like this.

Yes thanks. Ronin brought that up to me that the review was missing that. ) day rentals can't be beat. I used it for a couple "test purchases" Games I wanted to play on the day they came out but wasn't 100% sure I wanted to pull the trigger but didn't want to HOPE I got it from various rental services. I ended up just buying them on the service versus console/PC normal version and have not actually had any misgivings.

[Mike Kelehan]

So how does it send all your input (controller, keyboard or mouse) over the net to the server hosting the game and still not LAG LIKE HELL. That's what I'd like to know.

That's what I thought too, when they announced it. I said, very vocally and in every OnLive thread I could find, that I'll believe it when I see it, that it's a pipe dream, and that this could very well be a Phantom-esque investment scam.

Then I tried the beta, and was shocked that it not only worked, but worked well.

I live in Maryland, between Baltimore and DC. The nearest OnLive server farm, I believe, is in DC. I tried pinging whitehouse.gov, and got ping times of 18-20ms. The delay when playing a game on a DLP TV is about 44ms. It can work if their compression and streaming technology is good enough, and it turns out it is.

[Vandabo]

The idea of PC rentals is pretty sweet to me. That would have worked great for playing through the singleplayer campaign of Blops, for example.

[muddi900]

I just want to check out demos, but my ping is so high, it's not even funny. It is probably the service we all will be using to demo our games, at least, in the next few years.

[TheKeck]

Fair review. I love mine, it fits a particular use in my home and its fantastic. Starting a game and realizing that its just...there playing in just a few seconds is so amazing.

This prompted me to actually try this tonight. Jumped in a couple demos. It really I'd a very neat service. The only complaint I have at the moment is that graphics didn't seem very great on the games.

[PathMaster]

Hmm, this might actually work for me. I have not had the chance to build a new PC, and my 360 is on the fritz. This might give me the chance to play games, now. I especially like the idea of playing a game for 30 minutes for free as a demo. Really cool.

One question? How are the games priced in the market for it? Same as retail?

[Mot Wakorb]

Hmm, this might actually work for me. I have not had the chance to build a new PC, and my 360 is on the fritz. This might give me the chance to play games, now. I especially like the idea of playing a game for 30 minutes for free as a demo. Really cool.

One question? How are the games priced in the market for it? Same as retail?

Yeah, some cheaper - if you pay for the subscription service, everything goes down by 30% and they have regular deals. For the most part, everything new is $50.

[MagGnome]

I just want to check out demos, but my ping is so high, it's not even funny. It is probably the service we all will be using to demo our games, at least, in the next few years.

I could see using this to demo games, but I can't see myself actually buying games on this service. I'd rather buy actual copies, whether DD or physical. Plus I really doubt that my bandwidth would be up to snuff for this, especially since I'm at least a thousand miles from all of the data centers.

[AniAko]

Hmm, this might actually work for me. I have not had the chance to build a new PC, and my 360 is on the fritz. This might give me the chance to play games, now. I especially like the idea of playing a game for 30 minutes for free as a demo. Really cool.

One question? How are the games priced in the market for it? Same as retail?

Yeah, and they're offering deal pre-ordering on Arkham City when it comes out, pretty much retail.

[Ravenlock]

They also very frequently run extreme deals on slightly older games - $5 Fridays is a weekly event and you can snag a lot of good stuff there.

The service is solid given the bandwidth, and the 30 minutes of free gameplay as a "demo" for any game on the service is a great feature. Way better than most traditional demos, and a literally investment-free (no money, no hard drive space) way to try a game.

I don't think it'll replace local gaming for me anytime soon, since I've got a decent gaming rig and so many of my games through Steam, but I'm a fan of what they've got going on here. It's also really neat to be able to load the OnLive client on my PC and game for awhile without taxing my computer - doesn't matter how much other shit I have running, OnLive plays alongside it just fine. No more taxing on the PC than playing a Youtube video, really.

The other problem is the way this works. Unlike even Steam, you really don't own your stuff at all, it isn't even on your machine anywhere. Your game, your saves, all of it are all on OnLive's servers, which means they're going to be completely independent of your Steam saves and the like, and if something happens to your games, like say, that 3 year time limit in the fine print on OnLive purchases runs out, or the service goes tits up because they've been overspending like crazy, then you are SOL on every level. There's no patch that's gonna make those purchases playable again because you don't even have the data.

This is true, but as I've talked about before, our Steam games are a lot less "secure" than we like to think they are. If Steam decides to lock your account for whatever reason, by all accounts I've ever heard, you're just as SOL as if OnLive were to go down. Obviously we can play statistical games about the likelihood of those events (and it's probably true that Steam is a "safer" bet), but in both cases control of the games we've paid for really doesn't rest with us.

[MachEnergy]

Hey Mot, you listed the bandwidth specs they recommend, but I'm curious what your own connection was when you tested these games. Whenever people talk about OnLive, my first question is always, "what's your DL/UL?"

[Bone]

I could see using this to demo games, but I can't see myself actually buying games on this service. I'd rather buy actual copies, whether DD or physical. Plus I really doubt that my bandwidth would be up to snuff for this, especially since I'm at least a thousand miles from all of the data centers.
Give it a try on your PC and find out! The base service itself is free, you can try out some demos and see how it performs.

[Purple Santa]

Fair review. I love mine, it fits a particular use in my home and its fantastic. Starting a game and realizing that its just...there playing in just a few seconds is so amazing.
I know you speak highly of the service and really have intended to get it. I just have so much to play already and other stuff is ignored...bah...not enough time for games. I really do need to find a spot for a second tv...

[MagGnome]

Good point. I'll have to do that.

Edit - That was in reply to Bone.

[KidCactus]

First, the game has jagged edges - don't expect FSAA to be enabled in the games. It's a tradeoff for video quality versus bandwidth used
This I don't get, why would AA affect the bandwidth needed? :confused:

[Bone]

It wouldn't at all. Everything you see on the client contains the same amount of pixels regardless of AA- essentially a framebuffer. I could see them disabling AA for their server-side machines to save some horsepower, maybe.

[TheKeck]

The service is solid given the bandwidth, and the 30 minutes of free gameplay as a "demo" for any game on the service is a great feature. Way better than most traditional demos, and a literally investment-free (no money, no hard drive space) way to try a game.

When I was trying it last night it very much seemed liked only certain games offered the free demo option. Am I crazy?

[Mike Kelehan]

This I don't get, why would AA affect the bandwidth needed? :confused:

It doesn't. The games usually DO use FSAA, they just run at 720p.

[Psykoboy2]

When I was trying it last night it very much seemed liked only certain games offered the free demo option. Am I crazy?

Not at all. For instance, you can't demo Deus Ex:HR at the moment among quite a bit of other games as well.

[TheKeck]

Not at all. For instance, you can't demo Deus Ex:HR at the moment among quite a bit of other games as well.

Ok, thank goodness I don't need to get my head checked. ;)

[OldJadedGamer]

I have one I got for free and use it for 30 minute demos of games. I've also bought games like Shatter that were on PSN but for some silly reason never had a demo but there was a demo on OnLive so I bought it there after trying it out.

Haven't bought anything on it yet though. Love the service. Love that the same game works on my PC, my Mac, or my TV.

[Mot Wakorb]

Hey Mot, you listed the bandwidth specs they recommend, but I'm curious what your own connection was when you tested these games. Whenever people talk about OnLive, my first question is always, "what's your DL/UL?"

Sure. I'm running a 30mbit down, 5 up connection at home. Way more than they recommend and I still saw some chop.

[Mot Wakorb]

It doesn't. The games usually DO use FSAA, they just run at 720p.

This isn't my experience at all - I saw a lot of jagged edges on the games I tried, such as Assassin's Creed Brotherhood, Deus Ex: Human Revolution, and Borderlands. YMMV.

[Bone]

I think your overall line quality is more important than the raw down/up numbers... my 12 Mbps connection has been very stable, and usually tests above their claimed numbers- I just tested 13.3/1.47.

Not that I don't see any OnLive stutters, but they were few and far between for me.

[Karak]

I think your overall line quality is more important than the raw down/up numbers... my 12 Mbps connection has been very stable, and usually tests above their claimed numbers- I just tested 13.3/1.47.

Not that I don't see any OnLive stutters, but they were few and far between for me.

Agreed I have a better experience, and I have to say, image quality, than others in my area who are a different pipeline.

[TheKeck]

My connection is 37 down / 5 up at best. I didn't notice any stutter at all, that I could recall, but wondered about the image seeming so low res.

[Ravenlock]

Not at all. For instance, you can't demo Deus Ex:HR at the moment among quite a bit of other games as well.

My bad. Definitely should have said "many" games, not all. I guess that must be a publisher level thing. Can't imagine why they'd turn down the option, though. Seems like a win for everybody.

[KidCactus]

It wouldn't at all. Everything you see on the client contains the same amount of pixels regardless of AA- essentially a framebuffer. I could see them disabling AA for their server-side machines to save some horsepower, maybe.

Yes, my question was kind of retorical. :p

[J Arcane]

This is true, but as I've talked about before, our Steam games are a lot less "secure" than we like to think they are. If Steam decides to lock your account for whatever reason, by all accounts I've ever heard, you're just as SOL as if OnLive were to go down. Obviously we can play statistical games about the likelihood of those events (and it's probably true that Steam is a "safer" bet), but in both cases control of the games we've paid for really doesn't rest with us.

There's cracks out there for Steam games though, and for the ones that aren't, it's theoretically possible someone could develop one.

But with OnLive, there's nothing there to crack. There's no local data at all, it's all on their server, and if that server stops working, that's it for you.

[Exodus]

My bad. Definitely should have said "many" games, not all. I guess that must be a publisher level thing. Can't imagine why they'd turn down the option, though. Seems like a win for everybody.

Probably developing their own kind of onLive service.

[TheKeck]

My bad. Definitely should have said "many" games, not all. I guess that must be a publisher level thing. Can't imagine why they'd turn down the option, though. Seems like a win for everybody.

I would say it is not in the game publisher's advantage to put out a demo if the game sucks. :p

[Ravenlock]

There's cracks out there for Steam games though, and for the ones that aren't, it's theoretically possible someone could develop one.

But with OnLive, there's nothing there to crack. There's no local data at all, it's all on their server, and if that server stops working, that's it for you.

Fair, but I'm not gonna pretend I have all my Steam games downloaded, or even all the ones I'd definitely want to keep. I don't have the hard drive space. :p

I would say it is not in the game publisher's advantage to put out a demo if the game sucks. :p

Point.

[Mot Wakorb]

I think your overall line quality is more important than the raw down/up numbers... my 12 Mbps connection has been very stable, and usually tests above their claimed numbers- I just tested 13.3/1.47.

Not that I don't see any OnLive stutters, but they were few and far between for me.

It seems to only happen when there's quite a bit of motion for me, it's also why I mentioned it'd be nice to have a midwest data center, because I'm relatively sure I'm not within 1000 miles of any of the three data centers.

[Stmfuller]

seems exactly like I thought it was going to be.
A really cool technology that I wouldn't pay for on my own but if the company took off and didn't show signs of being under water I could totally see checking out.

[Karak]

seems exactly like I thought it was going to be.
A really cool technology that I wouldn't pay for on my own but if the company took off and didn't show signs of being under water I could totally see checking out.

Wait...what....really? With all the new companies that just announced their games on the system coming up and the positive news from other outlets I haven't heard anything of this. What gives?

[Mot Wakorb]

seems exactly like I thought it was going to be.
A really cool technology that I wouldn't pay for on my own but if the company took off and didn't show signs of being under water I could totally see checking out.

That seems like a bleak outlook - it is young and growing, and the publishers are on-board as piracy on this platform isn't really possible.

[AniAko]

That seems like a bleak outlook - it is young and growing, and the publishers are on-board as piracy on this platform isn't really possible.

But it doesn't mean people will buy on their platform. I can reated to stmfuller, if I can't "own" my copy of a game, I want to be sure it's in for the long haul and will be around for a long time so I can access those titles. I remember the backlash of people when GoG pulled their marketing stunt saying they were closing, and those were games you could archive yourself (DRM free), I can only imagine what would happen with a pure service based system.

I don't have a bleak outlook for OnLive, I actually think they nailed the "game as a service" platform and I've been impressed with their offerings... but everytime a game is released I'll think of their servers going offline or being unavailable, and I'll see the same game is available for a competitive price from Amazon with free release day delivery that I can run on my current rig. Everytime that hapens, I'll re-evaluate what "owning" a game, and the means to play it where ever or whenever I want means to me, and that will influence my purchasing decision.

Just the same, some people lease cars, some people buy. The demographic will definitely be split, and I know I will own some cheap games on OnLive. Right now I'm eyeing up Virtual Tennis 2009, it was $2.50. If the service ever goes dark, I won't miss that $2.50 because the ease of use with their system and all the benefits that came with it will outweigh my loss.

[Bone]

For the rental side, it's a no-brainer. It even beats downloading a 500 MB demo that you're just going to delete in a few days.

For retail purchases, I agree that it's tough to reconcile the lack of a product when the servers go down. But then, even with Steam you have to setup offline mode BEFORE you lose internet connectivity or their servers go down. But maybe the solution is to provide a voucher or some other certificate of ownership that will allow digital copies of the game to be downloaded in parallel to (or in lieu of) "owning" the OnLive title.

[AniAko]

For the rental side, it's a no-brainer. It even beats downloading a 500 MB demo that you're just going to delete in a few days.

For retail purchases, I agree that it's tough to reconcile the lack of a product when the servers go down. But then, even with Steam you have to setup offline mode BEFORE you lose internet connectivity or their servers go down. But maybe the solution is to provide a voucher or some other certificate of ownership that will allow digital copies of the game to be downloaded in parallel to (or in lieu of) "owning" the OnLive title.

I completely agree, and hopefully this new model of gaming will spur off some new licensing model publishers could provide to OnLive and others similar services to allow for such things. Like I said, I think OnLive nailed where they should be as an industry pioneer, and hopefully their existence will help evolve around the current consumer concerns and roadblocks.

[Bone]

Yeah. I'm optimistic for what they are doing, and I really wasn't until I plugged in the console and tried it for myself. They are at the early edge of something that is certainly going to be the future. For years we've been hearing "the network IS the computer" (was that the guy from Sun who said that?), and now the advent of the "cloud" is proving that to be true. DropBox, Netflix, Hulu, it goes on and on. The only real roadblocks to me seem to be network speeds and licensing issues. And really, networking is only going to improve. If only I had the same optimism for licensing common sense :)

[Karak]

I think the confusing thing was "signs of being underwater" maybe that should have been "doing good?" Because the comment doesn't commute at all and wasn't accompanied by news or headlines or anything or even any reasoning. So that's why, at least for my part, I was looking around to see if they folded. But it looks like exactly the opposite, unless its a bit older news. I only look for the last 6 months.

Not ignoring the "you don't own this and that" comments because of course, those are right and up to the personal consumer if they will be ok with that.

I don't hold that ANY software licence on Steam, or on this are mine forever. Just because I also don't have ever steam game downloaded either. Lets face it, its just another way to get games with its own hoops, and it will be up to each to decide if they feel like jumping through them.

[J Arcane]

For the rental side, it's a no-brainer. It even beats downloading a 500 MB demo that you're just going to delete in a few days.

For retail purchases, I agree that it's tough to reconcile the lack of a product when the servers go down. But then, even with Steam you have to setup offline mode BEFORE you lose internet connectivity or their servers go down. But maybe the solution is to provide a voucher or some other certificate of ownership that will allow digital copies of the game to be downloaded in parallel to (or in lieu of) "owning" the OnLive title.
Just to correct there, that's not true about Steam. If you're set to auto login, you can time it out to get into offline mode without being online first. It takes a long while, and nothing seems to be happening for that while, but eventually it will time out and ask if you want to start in offline mode.

[MagGnome]

Yeah. I'm optimistic for what they are doing, and I really wasn't until I plugged in the console and tried it for myself. They are at the early edge of something that is certainly going to be the future. For years we've been hearing "the network IS the computer" (was that the guy from Sun who said that?), and now the advent of the "cloud" is proving that to be true. DropBox, Netflix, Hulu, it goes on and on. The only real roadblocks to me seem to be network speeds and licensing issues. And really, networking is only going to improve. If only I had the same optimism for licensing common sense :)

This future honestly scares me to some extent, as it puts all of the control in the hands of the big media and publishing companies. It's rife for abuse.

[Bone]

Just to correct there, that's not true about Steam. If you're set to auto login, you can time it out to get into offline mode without being online first. It takes a long while, and nothing seems to be happening for that while, but eventually it will time out and ask if you want to start in offline mode.

That would have been good to know when my friend's ISP went down for a week (yeah). He was ready to drive to Valve headquarters and kill them all.

But actually- as I understand, you still have to have setup offline mode for that game at least one time, for that to work. Am I wrong?

EDIT: I am correct. This is the bullshit:

"Please note that you must connect to the Steam Network and test each of the games you would like to use in Offline Mode at least once to set up your account and configure Offline Mode on your machine."


In other words, you have to run each game that you want to work in Offline mode, in Offline mode at least one time before it will work the day your Internet fails.

[Bone]

This future honestly scares me to some extent, as it puts all of the control in the hands of the big media and publishing companies. It's rife for abuse.
No more than Netflix has abused me. I think as OnLive matures (and streaming in general matures) the pricing model will streamline, as well as the terms of ownership. Let's say full retail gives you a physical copy (or at least the chance to download a copy yourself), but most people use the Netflix style model where they get all the titles they want to play for a monthly rate. Only buy the ones you know you want to keep forever (which for me, honestly, is maybe 1 or 2 titles).

[MagGnome]

No more than Netflix has abused me. I think as OnLive matures (and streaming in general matures) the pricing model will streamline, as well as the terms of ownership. Let's say full retail gives you a physical copy (or at least the chance to download a copy yourself), but most people use the Netflix style model where they get all the titles they want to play for a monthly rate. Only buy the ones you know you want to keep forever (which for me, honestly, is maybe 1 or 2 titles).

Netflix doesn't charge you per title though. I know Onlive has a "buffet" service as well, but how many newer games are really on it?

I think comparing Netflix to OnLive is a little flawed. I love Netflix, as I can get any movie I want for one flat fee per month. OnLive doesn't offer that. Furthermore, were they to offer that sort of service, I can't even imagine how much it would cost. 50+ a month?

[Bone]

Netflix doesn't charge you per title though. I know Onlive has a "buffet" service as well, but how many newer games are really on it?

I think comparing Netflix to OnLive is a little flawed. I love Netflix, as I can get any movie I want for one flat fee per month. OnLive doesn't offer that. Furthermore, were they to offer that sort of service, I can't even imagine how much it would cost. 50+ a month?

Well, sure, but nobody is doing this model for games yet so I needed something similar to compare to. And, Netflix certainly does not offer nearly as many new movies as most of us want on their streaming service. That's been a common complaint since day one.

Anyway, my point was that this model has a way to go. Currently, the 5-day rental from OnLive would satisfy most of my gaming needs. Or I'd just rent another 5 days. I really don't like owning single-player PC games- I don't tend to play them again until 5-10 years later, at which point I am pretty sure they will be on some download service anyway (or at least, that's what recent history has shown me).

[MagGnome]

Fair enough. I'm glad this option is available for those who want it. It isn't for me, and I hope it doesn't supplant the current model for a long time to come, if ever, but again I'm glad it's there for those who see a use for it.

[Bone]

So what model would you prefer? They currently offer a game purchase option, but they don't give you a download option to own it. So I agree, that should be either cheaper, or allow a hard copy, or maybe both.

I just think the time is ripe to step away from conventional pricing models for digital services, and I think it's true of music, movies, games, and even apps. I think the marketplace in even 10 years will look very different.

[Psykoboy2]

10 years?

I'd say 5. In fact, I think a big deal in that change will come from whatever Microsoft and Sony decide to do. They won't give up the physical copy part of it, but will they really embrace the digital part of it?

They already have with movies.

[MagGnome]

So what model would you prefer? They currently offer a game purchase option, but they don't give you a download option to own it. So I agree, that should be either cheaper, or allow a hard copy, or maybe both.

I just think the time is ripe to step away from conventional pricing models for digital services, and I think it's true of music, movies, games, and even apps. I think the marketplace in even 10 years will look very different.

For games I prefer the Steam/DD model. The games are right there on my computer, and the heavy competition in the DD space leads to plenty of sales. It works very well for me. I own over 280 games on Steam, and I only paid "full price" for a few of them.

Steam is a better choice for me. Again, I can see why OnLive appeals to some people. It's just not for me at this time.

[PathMaster]

What if Steam were to purchase OnLive, or create their own streaming option? OOooo?

Hmm, Upstate NY here, kind of far away from VA, and getting 3.77M Down and .97 Up. Might have to play this a bit and see what happens.

[MagGnome]

I'd be fine with that, as I'd have both options through the service.

I'm not against OnLive as a company or anything, that would be ridiculous. I just don't like the idea of paying full price for games that are entirely in the "cloud".

[Karak]

I'd be fine with that, as I'd have both options through the service.

I'm not against OnLive as a company or anything, that would be ridiculous. I just don't like the idea of paying full price for games that are entirely in the "cloud".

Onlive has 5 dollar weekends almost every weekend and you don't own Steam games. EVER. Though I see where you are coming from. Games in the cloud are sadly the future sir it is inevitable as the seasons.

[MagGnome]

Onlive has 5 dollar weekends almost every weekend and you don't own Steam games. EVER. Though I see where you are coming from. Games in the cloud are sadly the future sir it is inevitable as the seasons.

You're an enabler! :eek:

Just kidding.

[Stmfuller]

That seems like a bleak outlook - it is young and growing, and the publishers are on-board as piracy on this platform isn't really possible.

Trust me, it's not bleak. It's just that in the past I've usually been the harbinger of DOOM when it comes to technology.

examples:
Dreamcast: 6 months after I bought one...they killed it
MiniDisc players: well, one could argue that was a niche product anyway, but I had one.
WebOS: I had a preplus...

etc.

I'm going to hold off true judgement on this until it's a mature product, but it's going to need an audience in order to push forward.

[Trebor]

I love the business model and the whole idea of streaming games that OnLive offers. Their specials can not be beat, the instantaneous ability to "just play" sure beat having to either load up a game or download it, and the Play Pack just keeps getting offering a larger and larger selection of games. But most of all, the cost for the Microconsole and wireless controller is beats out anything that Microsoft, Sony, or Nintendo could possible offer.