MTG: Online Sealed League

[NotJeff]

We've been discussing on the IRC the possibility of a Magic: The Gathering Online sealed deck league. Now I want to gauge how much interest there is away from the IRC. Here's how it would work (open to discussion & debate):

Rules:


Buy 5 Magic 2012 boosters, open, and record the contents in a group spreadsheet at Google. (75 cards total)

Build a 40+ card deck from your 75 + basic land. You may always rebuild your deck between matches.

Play against other members of the league. Each time you do, ante one card from your 75 card collection against one from theirs, choosing them by mutual agreement of a "fair" pairing. Winner keeps both.

When your collection drops below 60 cards or grows above 90 cards, your collection is retired as a loser, or a winner. We taunt you, or cheer for you. (Unless someone's deck is really awful or great, this should take a long time -- until you've won 15 more games than you've lost, or lost 15 more than you've won.)

Buy 5 boosters, and begin again.


Costs:
Boosters cost $4 apiece. They are possibly cheaper if you find a bot trading boosters for tickets. I've seen them for as cheap as $3.63 that way.

An account costs $10 if you don't already have one, and comes with one booster. Don't open it yet, until we settle on format!

To be decided:

Nothing. Go see the "final" rules in post #24 in this thread.

Who would be possibly interested in such a thing?

Players:

NotJeff
Crashcart
Ghostbear
Hap
Stmfuller
John (nonCoG friend of NotJeff)
OUX
Karmakin
Ten19
Shrinn
Farsight
MotWakorb
UWCrash
Drayven
flinxz


Spectator Auxiliary Corps:

Troggles
Kielaran

[Shrinn]

As long as it's Sealed I'd probably be interested. I have no familiarity with MTGO though. I'll get back with a more solid answer shortly.

[NotJeff]

As long as it's Sealed I'd probably be interested. I have no familiarity with MTGO though. I'll get back with a more solid answer shortly.

As of right now, booster packs cost $4 apiece, and a new account costs $10 but comes with one booster pack.

I just installed MTGO for the first time over the weekend, so I'm muddling through the UI still myself.

[Stmfuller]

This has a possibly of being cool. Let me know if you're going to do this or not. Depending on funds I might be a yes

[diablopath]

I'd be interested in this, as I've been looking to get involved with Magic. I love card games so much, but it's intimidating to get involved at the local comic shop. I have such fond memories of Yu Gi Oh when I was like 12. Deck building was so fun back then.

This is a nice match between my desire to buy cards/build decks (instead of just finding powerful deck combos online) and not having to be overwhelmed by asshats.

So, I'm in. I'll try to remember to check this thread, but if you guys actually decided to do it and fail to hear from me, please send me a PM to remind me. I don't check this part of the forum a lot and I'm likely to forget.

EDIT: Wait, I misunderstood. This is entirely online, isn't it? As in, we're not buying retail boosters and using the honor system, we're actually using digital cards?

No interest, if that's the case. I just don't want to buy digital cards.

[NotJeff]

EDIT: Wait, I misunderstood. This is entirely online, isn't it? As in, we're not buying retail boosters and using the honor system, we're actually using digital cards?

No interest, if that's the case. I just don't want to buy digital cards.


OK, we'll count you out. Buying physical cards and trying to make a game work non-face-to-face sounds like a bear, to me.

[Shrinn]

If we can wait till I get paid on the 22nd I'm definitely in.

[NotJeff]

We're in no hurry. GB is definitely not in before PAX.

[NotJeff]

We're in no hurry. GB is definitely not in before PAX.

Also, I should say, if it looks like >= 3 people will be interested, it's fine to just start (as soon as we settle the rules). Games are unscheduled, so people can join at any time by simply buying their packs and listing the contents.

[NotJeff]

I propose that we get this started on the 29th, the day after PAX ends. This coming weekend, I'll open my packs, come up with some sort of reasonable google docs template, and PM or email all participants with a link, as well as a finalized "get-started" procedure.

Do people prefer playing single games or best-of-three matches?

If anyone not on the list wants to play, speak up. Although in this format, it's fine for people to join themselves into the league at any time with a new 75 card collection.

[iHap]

The 29th might work but we'll see. I am flying back mid day Monday but I think it'll be fine.

I don't mind single matches but I think best-of-three may work better for out small league.

[NotJeff]

The 29th might work but we'll see. I am flying back mid day Monday but I think it'll be fine.

I don't mind single matches but I think best-of-three may work better for out small league.

The nature of the league is such that if you open your packs on the 30th, or in December, it won't matter at all. The only need is to ensure there's enough interest to make paying for the packs worthwhile.

[OUX]

I would actually be interested in this too. Sounds like fun.

[Shrinn]

I'm in whenever you guys want to start. I propose best of 3.

[Ghostbear]

I'll be in after PAX time.

[Karmakin]

I think I'd be in for this. (Although I should disclose that I'm a regular tourney Magic player, and my rating is about 1800:p)

[NotJeff]

I think I'd be in for this. (Although I should disclose that I'm a regular tourney Magic player, and my rating is about 1800:p)

That doesn't bother me, if it doesn't bother anyone else.

[OUX]

That doesn't bother me, if it doesn't bother anyone else.

Sealed deck? His luck could always blow.

[Troggles]

Is there anyway to be a spectator in all this? I wouldn't mind getting into Magic again someday, but I don't want to jump in and do a sealed league right off the bat.

[iHap]

I wouldn't mind streaming my games to throw in some fun if people really wanted to spectate.

[NotJeff]

Sealed deck? His luck could always blow.

I don't actually think luck plays a terribly huge factor in sealed deck, or at least not as much as you'd think, particularly in this format where you can go after cards that will help you, but even in a sealed tournament.

Is there anyway to be a spectator in all this? I wouldn't mind getting into Magic again someday, but I don't want to jump in and do a sealed league right off the bat.

You'd be reliant on someone streaming play. I won't do that, though I don't mind if my opponents do. It'll certainly be OK for you to follow this thread as people trash-talk each other, though.

[Ten19]

You'd be reliant on someone streaming play. I won't do that, though I don't mind if my opponents do. It'll certainly be OK for you to follow this thread as people trash-talk each other, though.

You can actually spectate games in MTG:O, very useful for seeing new cards and such.

EDIT: Also, I might be game for having a go at this.

[Kielaran]

Add me to spectating. I don't have extra cash now but maybe will join in the festivities later when I do.

[NotJeff]

OK. The league is now open. Here's the rules, for now, subject to change if needed:

I. Setup


Obtain MTGO (http://www.wizards.com/magic/digital/article.aspx?x=magic/moliii2/download) and create an account, if you have not already done so.
Obtain access to the league's Google Spreadsheet. (I've sent all players & spectators PMs to get tis process started.)
Obtain and open 5 "Magic 2012" booster packs. As each is opened, write down the contents of the pack. Your individual tab in the google spreadsheet has space for this purpose. See my tab for an example. If you don't write down the contents of each pack just as you open them, you won't be able to tell later which cards you bought for this league vs. which ones came with your account.Get the packs however you want. New accounts come with one. You can buy them in the MTGO client's store for $4 apiece. I searched the bots and found them for about 3.5 tickets ($3.50) apiece.
(Optional, but very helpful) Create a deck in the MTG:O client containing all 75 of your cards. Save the "deck" as a "Local Text Deck". Create an account at EssentialMagic (http://essentialmagic.com) and import the deck, make it public, and provide the link in the Google Spreadsheet. See for an example my collection (http://www.essentialmagic.com/decks/View.asp?ID=889284). This will help people pick ante, since they won't necessarily know what your cards do by name.
Whenever you're in the MTG:O client, join the CoG channel by typing /join CoG in a chat window.


II. League Play Rules

Players may arrange official league matches amongst themselves at any time, by email or PM or MTGO chat.
League matches are played using decks created using only cards from your collection, plus as much basic land as you want. Legal decks must contain at least 40 cards.
You may change your deck as much as you like between matches, or between games within a match, as long as it only uses cards from your collection and basic lands, and contains at least 40 cards.
Official league matches are played for an ante of one card per player, agreed upon in advance by the two players. If your ante is a card from your deck, you may play with it in your deck.
Official league matches are by default best 2 games of 3, but may be played as a single game by prior agreement of both players.
The winner of a league match receives the ante card of the loser, via a trade for nothing in the MTG:O client.
Players are welcome to play amongst themselves casually for no ante (but I think it's more fun and dynamic to almost always be playing an official game for ante, even if it's a "cheap" card like one of your 5 lands or a color you don't use).


III. Conduct
I hope this stuff never comes up.

Don't be a dick.
Play to win. It is not in the spirit of the league for two players to "trade" cards by throwing matches to each other.
Games are untimed. Don't abuse this. If a game has begun, and one player cannot complete it, by default the quitting player will forfeit. However, by agreement of both players it is acceptable for the game to be replayed at a future date, or for a winner to be agreed upon based on the game state.
Don't cheat. It'd be really easy to: open a 6th pack and pick the 5 you like, lie about the cards in your packs, etc, etc. We're here to have fun. Don't do these things.
Really, just don't be a dick. If stuff comes up, bring it to this thread and we'll discuss it.


IV. Administration

When a collection grows above 90 cards, it is retired as a winner. If the player wishes to continue in the league, he must buy 5 new boosters and start over.
When a collection drops below 60 cards, it is retired as a loser. If the player wishes to continue in the league, he must buy 5 new boosters and start over.
Games should be played in the "Anything Goes" area of the "Casual Play" room using the gametype "Constructed" "Freeform". This is necessary to allow 40 card decks, the default in MTG is 60.
The winner of an official league match is responsible for going into the Google Spreadsheet and noting the win and loss on the "Summary" tab, as well as logging the game on the "Game Log" tab. Please do this more or less immediately, so it doesn't fall out of sync with reality. Don't log casual games played without ante.
Each player should update their collections (in EssentialMagic) in a reasonably timely way so that others can browse their ante possibilities.


If this appears to be wrong, unclear, or incomplete, let me know and I'll fix it.

[NotJeff]

This space reserved for rules growth/clarification.

[NotJeff]

This space also reserved for rules growth/clarification.

[NotJeff]

I have a deck built, and I'm ready to roll.

[John]

Got my cards, posted, but not ready with a deck yet!

http://www.essentialmagic.com/decks/View.asp?ID=889390

PS: Hi.

[Shrinn]

Welcome! I'll get set up soon.

[Ten19]

Will get things built late Sunday or Monday, Irene pending.

[Farsight]

I'll give it a shot. I've only played the Duels games, so building a deck should be interesting...

[Farsight]

And hard. I forgot hard.

Even with the 75 cards limiting my options, I'll probably spend more time making a deck than playing. :)

[Shrinn]

My list is up here (http://essentialmagic.com/Decks/View.asp?ID=889594)

Deck building now.

[Shrinn]

Okay, one question. Are we limited to a 15 card sideboard between games in the best 2 out of 3?

[John]

Okay, one question. Are we limited to a 15 card sideboard between games in the best 2 out of 3?

Real answer: Hey, that's not in the rules yet, so we don't know!

My personal judgement call: Your entire set of cards is your sideboard, because that's how it works in "Real Tournaments" for all limited formats I know of (specifically, Draft and Sealed Deck use this rule, and this is pretty much sealed deck).

The confusing bit is that the Magic Online client tends to assume you are playing constructed when making decks in general, and warns you when you save your deck. FYI, if you are in a tournament or league setup by MTGO itself (i.e. not what we're doing), there's no warnings about 15 card sideboards when you save/submit that deck (in the league/tournament deckbuilder).


For consistency with other magic stuff I pretty strongly recommend that the sideboard is NOT constrained to 15 cards, but that does mean MTGO is going to annoyingly remind you of that when you save your deck.

... this also makes it a lot easier to maintain your decks when you win/lose ante cards, since you just remove/add one card and save the deck again... your COG league collection is still intact, and you don't have to go to your main collection and worry about which cards are or AREN'T part of your collection. Even if people are trying to be good, increases the chance of accidental cheating.

[NotJeff]

Sideboard from your entire collection. I'll fix the rules.

Note that if you run the game as a 2-out-of-3, instead of as single games, you'll need to include your entire collection, including any other basic land you might want to use, in your sideboard. It may be more reasonable to play single games (in the client), even when playing best 2 out of 3.

[Shrinn]

I challenge you, NotJeff! I just haven't decided which card of yours I want yet.

[Farsight]

I can already tell I'm going to stick to the console Magic game outside of this little league. I tried a "Newbie Game" to test out my deck, and promptly got owned by a collection of Planeswalker and various rares. Jerks!

It's also kinda startling how bad the UI is after playing the Planeswalkers games. Still, my Red/Green/White deck is ready to destroy all comers! Rawr.

[Shrinn]

Sorry about that, NotJeff. My internet and power has been in and out since the storm.

[NotJeff]

Sorry about that, NotJeff. My internet and power has been in and out since the storm.

I'll be up for play tonight.

[NotJeff]

Ten19 and I played a couple of fun exhibition games last night.

[Ghostbear]

I didn't separate mine by pack, since these were the only 2012 cards I had.

[Mot Wakorb]

I've got my cards unsealed, just need to make a deck and I'll go to town!

[NotJeff]

I didn't separate mine by pack, since these were the only 2012 cards I had.

No, and your bit of the spreadsheet looks better than ours.

How did you get all that info out of MTGO?

Also, you (and Farsight) need to go into the settings for your collections at essentialmagic and set them as public.

[Ghostbear]

How did you get all that info out of MTGO?



I didn't, I exported my deck on essential magic to a .csv deleted columns like the value of cards and the copy/pasted to the spreadsheet we are using.

Also, my 40 card deck is ready.

[Drayven]

I'm confused, I think I might want to get in on this if it's still open but when you talk about buying booster packs and stuff. Are these real packs you buy in the store and then just enter your cards into the online system or are they all virtual? I'm just not familiar with the online magic stuff...

[DiBiddilyBop]

It's all virtual, which has been my big barrier for entry into MTGO. I spend a lot of money on the physical card game and from what I can tell, the virtual one costs about the same amount of money. My fiancee would kill me if I started paying even more to play Magic.

[NotJeff]

I'm confused, I think I might want to get in on this if it's still open but when you talk about buying booster packs and stuff. Are these real packs you buy in the store and then just enter your cards into the online system or are they all virtual? I'm just not familiar with the online magic stuff...

MTGO is the same as magic online (in terms of buying boosters, price, etc) but it's all virtual. The only communication with real world magic is if you collect a complete set of virtual cards for a particular core set or expansion, WotC is willing to exchange them for paper cards.

Go take a look at the MTGO site and see what you think. I wouldn't get into paper OR virtual MTG for very much money, but in a limited environment like we're setting up here, I'm pretty happy.

[Drayven]

Alright count me in, just created my account 'Drayven' and will download the client to get cards later.

[MagGnome]

I played a ton of Magic when I was younger. I still have a bunch of cards in a shoebox in my closet. Someday I'll go through and sell them...maybe. I've thought about getting back into it a few times, but I think it's best that I don't. It can become a very expensive game. Still, Magic:Online has certainly tempted me on more than one occasion. Good luck to the players!

[Drayven]

You know Mag I did the same thing and ended up making roughly $100 in credit at my local gaming store. Some of those cards are worth money now.

[MagGnome]

You know Mag I did the same thing and ended up making roughly $100 in credit at my local gaming store. Some of those cards are worth money now.

How did you do it? Did you just take the whole box in? I can't imagine some poor guy in a gaming shop wanting to spend hours looking through all my cards.

Then again there is a store not far from where I live...

[UWCrash]

Cards opened and put in the spreadsheet last night. Still need to throw it up on EssentialMagic. I also made a 60-card deck last night, but I'll probably be trimming that down to around 48-50 realistically.

[Drayven]

How did you do it? Did you just take the whole box in? I can't imagine some poor guy in a gaming shop wanting to spend hours looking through all my cards.

Then again there is a store not far from where I live...

I found an online database and did my own research, then I took in the ones I knew to be worth something and had them give me prices. It also depends on the store, I took in one decent sized stack of crap to one place and the guy there had to look everything up in the book. At another store he just flipped through them all and set aside anything with any value.

[MagGnome]

Good to know, thanks. I'm still not sure if I can part with them, but it would probably be a good idea for me to do so.

[Drayven]

you can at least look through and maybe find a couple that are worth some dough and keep the rest. Might fund your holiday gaming season :P

[Karmakin]

I'll get the packs and fill out the spreadsheet later today. I've been quite busy with schoolwork.

Gnome, when abouts did you play? If you give a year range I can give you a list of valuable cards to look for.

[MagGnome]

I started around 1993-94 and played up until maybe 2002 or 2003?

The earliest set I have is probably Mirage or Ice Age (along with some 4th Edition). I can't remember which sets were coming out as I quit playing.

There was actually an Arena store in my hometown that my buddies and I used to hang out at all the time. I have many fond memories of those days.

[DiBiddilyBop]

I started around 1993-94 and played up until maybe 2002 or 2003?

The earliest set I have is probably Mirage or Ice Age (along with some 4th Edition). I can't remember which sets were coming out as I quit playing.

There was actually an Arena store in my hometown that my buddies and I used to hang out at all the time. I have many fond memories of those days.

If you picked up any revised duals, those are all worth big money now. Off the top of my head, the biggest cards you might have from around the time period you're describing are Force of Will, Wasteland, Lion's Eye Diamond, Phyrexian Dreadnought, Tolarian Academy, Natural Order, Survival of the Fittest... There are quite a few, but those are some of the really valuable ones to look out for. One of the guys I used to play with in high school runs www.abugames.com now. His prices are generally WAY on the high side, but you can at least run down the sets to get an idea of what the high dollar cards are, then check ebay for what they should actually sell for.

[Drayven]

I think I did this right. I stripped out all the cards I didn't want and put in 20 land and ended up with 60 cards in my deck.

[MagGnome]

Some of those do sound familiar. When I have time I'll dig out the cards and sort through them for a while. Thanks for the info.

[NotJeff]

Some of those do sound familiar. When I have time I'll dig out the cards and sort through them for a while. Thanks for the info.

Drayven, you're allowed (but not required) to play smaller, down to 40 cards total.

[Drayven]

Understood. It worked out that I whittled it down to just black, white, and colorless and that came out to 40. I then added 20 mana.

[MagGnome]

Drayven, you're allowed (but not required) to play smaller, down to 40 cards total.

Um, why did you quote me? :p

[NotJeff]

Ghostbear and I kicked off the for-ante aspect of the league last night. Enjoyable, people should start playing more. :)

[Ghostbear]

It was enjoyable once I figured out how to use the UI to activate the flameblast dragon abilities

[MagGnome]

I take it that the UI isn't as polished as the one in the Planeswalkers games?

[Karmakin]

Yeah if you played around that time you're probably sitting on a pile of Wastelands. They were an Uncommon from Tempest, and now they're worth about 50 bucks a pop.

[MagGnome]

Seriously? I'm pretty sure I have at least a couple of those. Nice!

[Stmfuller]

I've got my account activated and I bought my booster packs.
no decks yet...
http://www.essentialmagic.com//decks/View.asp?ID=890564

[Mot Wakorb]

I'll be looking for someone to play tomorrow - tomorrow is my day to relax.

[Drayven]

Got a few games in with NotJeff last night and got my ass handed to me and am now down one Basilisk :( Had a blast though, looking forward to more games when I get back in town.

[Stmfuller]

I'll be looking for someone to play tomorrow - tomorrow is my day to relax.

if I can get a deck together I'd be game.

[MagGnome]

Got a few games in with NotJeff last night and got my ass handed to me and am now down one Basilisk :( Had a blast though, looking forward to more games when I get back in town.

Honestly the thought of playing for ante makes my stomach tie up in knots.

[Stmfuller]

okay, have a deck together.
pm or hit me up in IRC if you wanna play.

[Mot Wakorb]

okay, have a deck together.
pm or hit me up in IRC if you wanna play.

Sounds good, I'll let you know tomorrow, should be able to play most of the day.

[Farsight]

Honestly the thought of playing for ante makes my stomach tie up in knots.

You choose what you ante, it's not like you're losing your best cards.

Magic has a "Pauper" mode (commons only, can build a decent deck for <$10) for people who want to avoid a big investment. Between that and the Duels games, they've made it much more accessible to those of us who fear our own lack of willpower. :)

[Shrinn]

Mot or NJ; Hit me up on steam of PM if you want to play today.

Or anyone, really, but I feel bad that NJ has been catching me too busy.

[Stmfuller]

Mot or NJ; Hit me up on steam of PM if you want to play today.

Or anyone, really, but I feel bad that NJ has been catching me too busy.

I see how it is :o :(

[Shrinn]

So my power went out so I went to a friends and played LoL all day. Maybe tomorrow? I'm bad at this.

[Mot Wakorb]

Shrinn: If you want to do a tune-up match now, I'm game.

[Shrinn]

Sure let me get on

[Stmfuller]

Dear everyone.
I would like to play at some point.
love, Stmfuller

[MagGnome]

This thread has gotten me back into Duals of the Planeswalkers, the first one.

Thanks. :p

[Mot Wakorb]

Mags, I don't mean to be a jackass - as you're not in the league and this post really is for the league, please stop posting. It'd be nice to keep this thread to relevancy only.

Thanks.

[NotJeff]

Two new rules/notes:

1) Even if you're playing 2 of 3, set it up as sequential single games. That way if not everyone is good about setting full collection up as a sideboard, it's no biggie.

2) GB & Mot had a few games break on them. If this happens, start over. If both players agree the winner was a forgone conclusion, then you can give that player the win instead.

[flinxz]

Count me in, once I get the Google information.

[NotJeff]

Count me in, once I get the Google information.
You should have gotten it hours ago, at the email you gave me.

[violent]

Count me in, once I get the Google information.

What's this Loom thing I keep hearing about?

[Mot Wakorb]

What's this Loom thing I keep hearing about?

Same nag is going to you - please keep posts relevant to the game, as you're not playing, please don't pollute. Feel free to join us and have your ass whooped though.

[NotJeff]

What's this Loom thing I keep hearing about?

Is this you looking to join us? If so, please PM me an email address you'd like to use.

[violent]

Same nag is going to you - please keep posts relevant to the game, as you're not playing, please don't pollute. Feel free to join us and have your ass whooped though.

Hah! I was just about to Gchat you apologizing for it but bless flinxz, he's honored every request of mine for years now.

Is this you looking to join us? If so, please PM me an email address you'd like to use.

I'm interested schedule permitting of course. I'll read the details tonight.

[flinxz]

Off Topic:
What's this Loom thing I keep hearing about?You mean the latest masterpiece of fantasy storytelling from LucasArts' Brian Moriarty? Why it's an extraordinary adventure with an interface of magic. Stunning, high resolution, 3D landscapes and sophisticated score and musical effects. Not to mention the detailed animation and special effects, elegant point 'n' click control of characters, objects and magic spells. Beat the rush! Go out and buy Loom today!

On Topic:
You should have gotten it hours ago, at the email you gave me.I completely forgot to check my junk mail folder. It was there and worked great. I am available to play most of the time.

[violent]

Gets me every time. Bless you, sir.

[Stmfuller]

is someone going to play magics with me this weekend :(
I wanna play.

[Drayven]

I'd be up for a game some time saturday evening/night and/or sunday. Just let me know when you're free. I'm not at my PC much unless I have something planned, usually at the xbox :P

[Drayven]

We need to make a Google Plus group so we can do the Huddle thing to notify people when we want to play a game :)

[NotJeff]

We need to make a Google Plus group so we can do the Huddle thing to notify people when we want to play a game :)

Use the email list!

[Stmfuller]

need to kick this in gear.
I haven't played nearly as much as i wanted to.
Of course I'm losing.
But, I can't figure out how to play if I can't ever play :(

[iHap]

Aw ah ahha ha! I

No. Stop. Think.

[Drayven]

I don't spend alot of time in front of my computer unless I have a reason but I'm usually near by. People should start sending emails to the group when they're looking for a game.

[MagGnome]

No. Stop. Think.

Whoops, I thought I deleted that stupid post. Fixed now. :o

[Stmfuller]

yeah, I won my first match!

[Shrinn]

I WILL play with you guys. But ugh. So busy. So much other stuff to do.

[NotJeff]

So, how 'bout that MTGO, huh?

[Drayven]

I get a wireless card for my laptop soon so I should be online a lot more since I can have it running while on the couch. Will be up for games probably.