Chuck Norris Is A Bitch

[Disgustipated]

An old, cry-baby, regressive-oriented "oh noez socialism" bitch.

Chuck Norris sure hasn't mellowed since barnstorming for Mike Huckabee back in the spring (and warning that John McCain might drop dead at any moment). In his latest syndicated column, he boasts about working for Prop 8 in California to ban gay marriage, then adds: "And as far as the presidential race? I couldn't put it any better than a recent poem I received," a takeoff on 'Twas the Night Before Christmas. He concludes by calling Obama a "socialist." Here are some excerpts, courtesy Chuck:

When all of a sudden/There arose such a noise/I peered out of my window/ Saw Obama and his boys.

They had come for my wallet./ They wanted my pay/ To give to the others,/ Who had not worked a day!

He snatched up my money /And quick as a wink /Jumped back on his bandwagon/ As I gagged from the political stink.

He then rallied his henchmen,/ Who were pulling his cart./ I could tell they were out /To tear my country apart!

They took off for his cause, /And as he flew out of sight,/ I heard him laugh at the nation, /Who wouldn't stand up and fight!

UPDATE: Chuck has now written an open letter to the president-elect urging him to take four vital steps. He also vows that he will be praying for him -- but Americans ("especially me") will be keeping an eye on him all the time.

http://www.eandppub.com/2008/11/chuck-norris-ob.html

Thanks for working against gay marriage and being such a stand-up citizen, Chuck.

[Schnoogs]

He'd still kick the shit out of you

[ClannerDelta]

He'd still kick the shit out of you

Too bad he still hasn't shed any tears.

[Spacetronaut]

Oh shit, someone famous has different opinions than me.

[Schnoogs]

It's silly to call him out over Prop 8 seeing as the majority of Californians voted for it. Maybe your beef should be the with the state and not him.

[Schnoogs]

Oh shit, someone famous has different opinions than me.

Quoted for truth

[LongStepMantis]

Too bad he still hasn't shed any tears.

-Someone once tried to tell Chuck Norris that roundhouse kicks aren't the best way to kick someone. This has been recorded by historians as the worst mistake anyone has ever made.


It had to be done...for old time's sake. ;)

That being said, I wouldn't listen to him on anything that had to do with a serious issue.

[ShivaX]

That being said, I wouldn't listen to him on anything that had to do with a serious issue.

What if it was an affordable home gym?

[Disgustipated]

It's silly to call him out over Prop 8 seeing as the majority of Californians voted for it. Maybe your beef should be the with the state and not him.

Slim majority. 52% to 48%? Passing Prop 8 was bullshit and I'm ashamed that it was passed.

Just tired of all of these wimps screaming about socialism.

[muddi900]

Fuck Socialism! Privatize the Police department! It works great for us third-worlders

[Xerxes]

What if it was an affordable home gym?

Didn't help Wesley Snipes out any. :D
http://www.soxfirst.com/50226711/wesley_snipes_mugshot.jpeg

[Schnoogs]

Slim majority. 52% to 48%? Passing Prop 8 was bullshit and I'm ashamed that it was passed.

Just tired of all of these wimps screaming about socialism.

I couldnt care less about the margin..it still passed and the majority were for it. Why single him out? Something like 70% of African American voters voted for it...maybe you should single them out.

Socialism is no joke so I'm glad we live in a country where you're free to complain about it. The only people who aren't free to complain about it are the poor bastards who are forced to live under it.

[Spacetronaut]

What if it was an affordable home gym?

That depends, does said gym fold up for easy storage in the closet or under the bed?

[Ancalagon]

Just tired of all of these wimps screaming about socialism.

America at its most socialist doesnt even approach the UK or the EU. Not even close.

This.... fearmongering is rather old. I also think its being used as a disguise for racism, a lot of the time (it reminds me of that South Park episode in which Token gets other rich black families to move to South Park). Was there a stink like this when Bill Clinton became president?

[Schnoogs]

America at its most socialist doesnt even approach the UK or the EU. Not even close.

This.... fearmongering is rather old. I also think its being used as a disguise for racism, a lot of the time (it reminds me of that South Park episode in which Token gets other rich black families to move to South Park). Was there a stink like this when Bill Clinton became president?

If in doubt play the race card

[Ancalagon]

If in doubt play the race card

Well excuse me if I find fears of socialism totally unjustified and blown out of all proportion.

Yeah, its not an excuse for racism all of the time, I'll grant you that.

But tell me why there was no such stink about Bill Clinton becoming president.

[Skull3r]

Hmmm.... who will the internet worship now? My vote is for Mr. Miyagi. It's a time for change!

[muddi900]

Socialism is no joke so I'm glad we live in a country where you're free to complain about it. The only people who aren't free to complain about it are the poor bastards who are forced to live under it.

It's a gigantic joke. You just don't get it!

Where I come from we are told to fear zionism. Where you come from you're told to fear socialism.

[Kagger]

Well excuse me if I find fears of socialism totally unjustified and blown out of all proportion.

Yeah, its not an excuse for racism all of the time, I'll grant you that.

But tell me why there was no such stink about Bill Clinton becoming president.

Well that was 16 years ago, I was 3 ;). The current 24 hour news media wasn't in place, nor was the internet there for people to rant about their fears.

Obama's socialist policies aren't bad on their own, but it's where it could lead to that scares me. Yes, roads, police etc are socialized programs, and that's fine. Health care does need fixing (at the root of the high costs too though), and have a socialized option isn't bad, as long as there are ways for people who want to pay for insurance can also. It's just the unknown of how far he will take socialism that is the cause of worry at least in my book.

[Re3x]

Well excuse me if I find fears of socialism totally unjustified and blown out of all proportion.

Yeah, its not an excuse for racism all of the time, I'll grant you that.

But tell me why there was no such stink about Bill Clinton becoming president.

Because people like to take everything to the extreme. Look at Bush, he fucked up on stuff but if you watched the news or read blogs you would think he was going to claim martial law and have a 3rd term with his own personal oil army made up of of minions from a draft.

I just cant wait til it is turned on Obama. I'll get a good laugh.

[Mr. Murphy]

Well excuse me if I find fears of socialism totally unjustified and blown out of all proportion.

Yeah, its not an excuse for racism all of the time, I'll grant you that.

But tell me why there was no such stink about Bill Clinton becoming president.

You do know that Schnoogs is the King Troll around here? I wouldn't worry about the grunts coming from under that bridge. :D

[Schnoogs]

Well excuse me if I find fears of socialism totally unjustified and blown out of all proportion.

Yeah, its not an excuse for racism all of the time, I'll grant you that.

But tell me why there was no such stink about Bill Clinton becoming president.

A) There was a stink

B) Clinton didn't have the same reputation so it's an apples and oranges comparison to begin with

[Schnoogs]

You just don't get it!

I trust the opinions of millions of Russians, Chinese, North Koreans and East Germans over yours.

No offense.

[Schnoogs]

You do know that Schnoogs is the King Troll around here? I wouldn't worry about the grunts coming from under that bridge. :D

You do realize your post counts as trolling? (rollseyes)

[Disgustipated]

Learn how to put multiple quotes into one post, Schnoogs.

[Schnoogs]

Learn how to put multiple quotes into one post, Schnoogs.

Learn that I don't care. (This coming from the guy whose sig takes up the space of 5 posts)

[Widgetcraft]

Meh, QQ moar? The man is a living caricature of the average Texan Republican.

[Krispy]

Canada is about in tune with Obama's idea of socialism and that isn't such a terrible place to live.

Edit: Oh man. Triple post. Counter troll. And then an "I don't give a fuck" post all in the course of ten minutes. Schnoogs is the King Troll.

[Schnoogs]

Canada is about in tune with Obama's idea of socialism and that isn't such a terrible place to live.

Haven't Canadians been electing nothing but conservatives lately because they've had enough?

[Krispy]

Haven't Canadians been electing nothing but conservatives lately because they've had enough?

That's like using the fact that we elected nothing but democrats as rhetorical evidence against the values of a conservative government. No, my point was that their country has been the way Obama's goals are pointed towards for decades now and it was never the worst for it, just different. I can predict that you will try to mention healthcare as a negative facet but I think instead of cynically pointing out the flaws in their healthcare and flaunting the pros of privatized one should accept that they both have their ups and downs depending on your social status and that a Hegelian approach is necessary. One of which Obama's staff echos perhaps faintly, but that is a step in a good direction.

[Schnoogs]

That's like using the fact that we elected nothing but democrats as rhetorical evidence against the values of a conservative government. No, my point was that their country has been the way Obama's goals are pointed towards for decades now and it was never the worst for it, just different.

Huh? I guess they randomly decided to vote the other way despite it being so great. :confused:

Your post is about as nonsensical as me saying that Obama's landslide victory and the Dems taking over the house had NOTHING to do with Bush's neocon policies and the direction the country was heading.

We all flipped a coin and decided to vote the other way...it had NOTHING to do with the past.

[Disgustipated]

Learn that I don't care. (This coming from the guy whose sig takes up the space of 5 posts)

Your visual spatial measuring skills could use a tune-up. :)

[Schnoogs]

Your visual spatial measuring skills could use a tune-up. :)

My exaggeration skills are solid though!

[Krispy]

Huh? I guess they randomly decided to vote the other way despite it being so great. :confused:

Your post is about as nonsensical as me saying that Obama's landslide victory and the Dems taking over the house had NOTHING to do with Bush's neocon policies and the direction the country was heading.

You are putting words in my mouth, I never said it was great. I said it wasn't terrible.

Obama's victory was only a landslide in the electoral college. What you seem to conveniently look over is that fact that a sizeable chunk of people still liked the government the way it was, ie. conservative. My point is then simply because a majority wants to change it in a popular poll isn't evidence that it was flawed but evidence of Hegel's theory. You know, seeking out new solutions, trying this and that, people don't like their governments to stay stale.

[Schnoogs]

What you seem to conveniently look over is that fact that a sizeable chunk of people still liked the government the way it was, ie. conservative. .

You seem to be overlooking the fact that a lot of people hate our current government but hate socialism and liberalism more.

The lesser of two evils as the saying goes.

[crazyD]

What you seem to conveniently look over is that fact that a sizeable chunk of people still liked the government the way it was, ie. conservative.

Whoa now. Our government is ridiculously far from being conservative with Bush in charge.

[VerseD]

Haven't Canadians been electing nothing but conservatives lately because they've had enough?

That's usually how democracy works. People vote liberal for a while, then get fed up and vote conservative for a while. Each side makes a lot of changes while they're in office, then the new guys come in, undo those changes, and make new ones. It's a slow, bipolar road toward progress, but in the end it's undoubtedly democratic.

This political pendulum is why I don't understand people who think that Obama will tear apart the fabric of the nation. He is a radical departure from the politics of the last eight years, but that will just bring us closer to a healthy long-term medium between liberalism and conservativism.

I couldn't care less about the margin..it still passed and the majority were for it. Why single him out? Something like 70% of African American voters voted for it...maybe you should single them out.

Don't get so defensive. The article just mentioned that Norris boasted about Prop 8 in this same column. Why should it leave that out?

[Inspector Fowler]

Why must we re-hash this topic? We already have a very, very long thread about Prop 8.

As a (usual) conservative, I get awful sick of whiny liberal celebrities telling me why my beliefs are wrong. But I don't make random forums posts about it. I just decide what I will listen to and watch.

So some conservative celebrity doesn't agree with you. Big deal. Ignore him and move on.

[alienmastermind]

Huh?

Case closed *gavel sound*.

Now, you get to be interviewed by that guy asking 'Why the hell didn't you just stop already? Well, on to our next case.'

Kidding, Schnoogs. Just saying, man, if you don't 'get' the argument, do some research and debate the points of the matter. Just saying the other guy's a socialist is like four years too old already.

Oh, and Bruce Lee trampled Chuck's gangly Honcho-stache having ass.

JLO1YIWQuXE

[JayVe]

This.... fearmongering is rather old. I also think its being used as a disguise for racism, a lot of the time

Fear mongering can be used to disguise a many number of things, some bad and some good. Motivating people out of fear does not lead to good relationships, and is rarely healthy.

When people play the fear card on you, recognize it and ALWAYS be suspicious.

[ShivaX]

When people play the fear card on you, recognize it and ALWAYS be suspicious.

Before or after I buy duct tape?

[Schnoogs]

Kidding, Schnoogs. Just saying, man, if you don't 'get' the argument, do some research and debate the points of the matter. Just saying the other guy's a socialist is like four years too old already.

What are you talking about? The argument was flat out invalid. There's nothing to get...it was as wrong as saying 2+2=5.

No amount of research is going to change that. :confused:

[Pale Ale]

Pift! You can never have enough ductape or any other toys... I mean tools you get from the hardware store!

[JayVe]

Before or after I buy duct tape?

I assume you are referring to our federal government's fear mongering? Yes. Be suspicious of them too. Don't fall for fear, it only makes you weak.

[MagGnome]

More proof that Chuck Norris is a colossal dick, as if that was needed.

[LordDon]

Socialism is no joke so I'm glad we live in a country where you're free to complain about it. The only people who aren't free to complain about it are the poor bastards who are forced to live under it.

You're thinking of communism

[ShivaX]

I assume you are referring to our federal government's fear mongering? Yes. Be suspicious of them too. Don't fall for fear, it only makes you weak.

Yeah, thats what I was referring to. I should have snapped to attention the day they said that and realized something was up. I just laughed at the stupidity of it without thinking about what they were doing.

[Xerxes]

You're thinking of communism

I was thinking the same thing. :confused:

[ShivaX]

I was thinking the same thing. :confused:

Its all a matter of how you define things. From what I've gathered Schnoogs considers what most people call communism, socialism. I'm not sure what he calls European-style socialism.

[Schnoogs]

You're thinking of communism

Symantics...even the soviets referred to themselves as socialists...hence the name USSR

[Schnoogs]

I'm not sure what he calls European-style socialism.

Life under Obama :p

[Press Ninja]

I thought Chuck Norris wasn't relevant any more... God damn you internet!

[Crowe]

Life under Obama :p

So what type of things is Obama trying to implement that have people all riled up?.

Is health care one of them, it would seem you guys need a new health care system. Having to seriously consider not going to the emergency room because of cost would scare the hell out of me.

[Jeffool]

So what type of things is Obama trying to implement that have people all riled up?.

Is health care one of them, it would seem you guys need a new health care system. Having to seriously consider not going to the emergency room because of cost would scare the hell out of me.He exists. That's about it.

Dude was way too conservative for me to vote for.

[c0m3d14n]

schnoogs doesnt know what hes talking about, but thats beside the point, his only goal in 100% of threads is to get a rise out of people with silly rhetoric ;)

[muddi900]

I trust the opinions of millions of Russians, Chinese, North Koreans and East Germans over yours.

No offense.


Did you just "Johaned"* me?


Say hi to the "millions" of your Russian, Chinese, North Korean and East German friends for me:p


*Johaning a someone is when you respond somebody's post on forum by not even reading the whole post itself. Not that there's anything wrong with that.

[Raen]

Life under Obama :p

So essentially paying less (sure you pay more tax, but less cause of no health insurance) is a bad thing? I mean you get free health care and almost free university education (in France you can get all the way to a masters and only pay $4,400 in tuition fees) as well as a host of other benefits? That doesn't seem terrible to me.

[MagGnome]

Come on guys - we all know that America is only a great, freedom-loving country if all the poor are dead or crushed under the weight of ridiculous medical bills.


That was sarcasm, in case it wasn't obvious. :p

[Druxk]

Since when is eliminating poverty and creating health insurance options socialism?

[ClannerDelta]

Come on guys - we all know that America is only a great, freedom-loving country if all the poor are dead or crushed under the weight of ridiculous medical bills.

God bless America!

Except for little Timmy, that crutch is going to be real lonely soon.

[Inspector Fowler]

I'd like to quickly point out that if my employer didn't pay for my health insurance, there is no way on earth or in hell that I would see a dime of that shit. To think that me paying more taxes would be balanced out by not paying for health insurance is pretty ridiculous.

As far as the whole health care thing goes, I'm neutral. I read once that when Clinton was elected, something like 70% of the US approved of his health care plan - by the time he took office, it was around 30%. So I'm not going to get my panties in a bunch until the actual legislation has been drafted and is being debated, because that's what we'll actually see/deal with.

[Xerxes]

I'm on the wrong side of the fence.

[Schnoogs]

schnoogs doesnt know what hes talking about, but thats beside the point, his only goal in 100% of threads is to get a rise out of people with silly rhetoric ;)

Coming from the guy who offers zero counter arguments...what a jackass

[Schnoogs]

So essentially paying less (sure you pay more tax, but less cause of no health insurance) is a bad thing? I mean you get free health care and almost free university education (in France you can get all the way to a masters and only pay $4,400 in tuition fees) as well as a host of other benefits? That doesn't seem terrible to me.

It's pointless to argue against the "rosey" view of things.

[Schnoogs]

*Johaning a someone is when you respond somebody's post on forum by not even reading the whole post itself. Not that there's anything wrong with that.

Your post was two sentences...I responded to one of them because the other one was a statement about your country and zionism which is neither relevant to this thread and painfully obvious given the area of the world you come from.

I'm embarrassed for you on this one.

[JayVe]

I'm on the wrong side of the fence.

Well, at least you aren't ON the fence. The pointy ends of those pickets are... pointy.

[Xerxes]

Well, at least you aren't ON the fence. The pointy ends of those pickets are... pointy.

I meant the pay grade. On the fence is only flip of the coin if I get to whine about my quarter of million dollars being taxed, or not really caring.

[Raen]

That's because you don't have a clue what you're talking about.

Well I live in the UK. I get free health care. Every time I've had to go to get something done I've been more than happy with the service I've received. I'd also love to have my University fees at the same level as France. Sure the basic tax rate here is now 20%, but I'd rather have that than have to pay health insurance. In fact I'd like to live in a more socialist country as places like France have a much better public transport system than we have. The fares are a lot cheaper and they have better time keeping records. Sure I'm only speaking from personal experience, but the system seems to work pretty well from what I can see in my partly socialised system.

[Schnoogs]

Well I live in the UK. I get free health care..

Well I live in the US. I get free health care.

Employee benefits for the win.

[Raen]

Well I live in the US. I get free health care.

Employee benefits for the win.

*shrug* I think universal free health care should pretty much be a human right. Giving someone no service, or a lower quality of service, just because they cannot afford the insurance etc... doesn't exactly seem great to me personally.

[LordDon]

Well I live in the US. I get free health care.

Employee benefits for the win.

Lucky you, I live in the US and have to pay $250 per paycheck for me and my two daughters because we fall under the "family" rate. This is WITH my employer chipping in to help as well.

We're fucked as a nation on healthcare, Schnoogs.

[Schnoogs]

We're fucked as a nation on healthcare, Schnoogs.

Speak for yourself...I'm doing just fine.

[Schnoogs]

*shrug* I think universal free health care should pretty much be a human right. Giving someone no service, or a lower quality of service, just because they cannot afford the insurance etc... doesn't exactly seem great to me personally.

Then so should free food, clothing and housing. Why limit it to health care. I eat far more often than I use my health benefits. I drink water daily and would die without it...it too should be free. :p

[Schnoogs]

Lucky you, I live in the US and have to pay $250 per paycheck for me and my two daughters because we fall under the "family" rate. This is WITH my employer chipping in to help as well..

Oh noes...something that is important has to be paid for!!!! Remember that the next time you buy a video game or some other frivolous expense.

[LordDon]

Oh noes...something that is important has to be paid for!!!! Remember that the next time you buy a video game or some other frivolous expense.

Once upon a time you decided you were going to argue rationally. It appears entertainment is more important to you than respect.

[Raen]

Then so should free food, clothing and housing. Why limit it to health care. I eat far more often than I use my health benefits. I drink water daily and would die without it...it too should be free. :p

So you're just taking my argument to the extreme? Classy move. Well yes I agree. However it is possibly to receive 'cheap' food, clothing etc... that will keep you in good health. These cheap things could be paid for by the government, and you could simply choose if you wanted to pay for your own. However lower quality free health care has the potential to actually harm you. The UK has free health care and private health care, and you can choose to go private if you wish. However I feel that the levels are, in general, comparable. Most of the people I know have been well treated under free health care, myself included. People I know who pay for health insurance pay extremely high premiums for a service that they don't feel is significantly greater. And yes this was a bit of a ramble, I lost my train of thought half way through.

[ClannerDelta]

Then so should free food, clothing and housing. Why limit it to health care. I eat far more often than I use my health benefits. I drink water daily and would die without it...it too should be free. :p

Yes, because it has to be all or nothing.

[c0m3d14n]

Coming from the guy who offers zero counter arguments...what a jackass

no, you! :D

[ShivaX]

Speak for yourself...I'm doing just fine.

He was speaking for the majority, you were speaking for yourself.

[Schnoogs]

He was speaking for the majority, you were speaking for yourself.

The majority of people in the US actual have some amount of health insurance...let's not pretend that I'm somehow apart of the wealthiest 1% that have health insurance.

I routinely run into Bill Gates and Bono when I'm visiting my doctor :p

[crazyD]

The majority of people in the US actual have some amount of health insurance...let's not pretend that I'm somehow apart of the wealthiest 1% that have health insurance.

I routinely run into Bill Gates and Bono when I'm visiting my doctor :p

Yeah, but 16% of Americans don't, and we have a system where insurance companies make money by trying to provide the least coverage possible. I am relatively conservative, and still support universal health care, as I haven't heard of a privatized plan that actually works. Maybe with heavy regulation, but I doubt that is what you want either.

[JayVe]

We're fucked as a nation on healthcare, Schnoogs.Speak for yourself...I'm doing just fine.Schnoogs , I knew your Ego was big... but you now represent the whole country? :eek:

Most impressive.

[Schnoogs]

Schnoogs , I knew your Ego was big... but you now represent the whole country? :eek:

Most impressive.

Actually I represent the 80% who have health insurance.

Heck...Obama only speaks for 50% of the country and people treat him like a messiah :p

[JayVe]

Actually I represent the 80% who have health insurance.

Heck...Obama only speaks for 50% of the country and people treat him like a messiah :p

How does Obama only speak for 50% of the country? Cause he's a man, he can't speak for women?

I'm willing to bet that Obama speaks for 100% of the country, seeing how he's the leader-elect.

Health insurance is broken in the USA, and getting worse. I'm fairly well-to-do, as is my wife, and every time we have to deal with healthcare it is expensive and slow. These days, I can't even get an X-ray at my doctor. I need to go to an X-ray specialist. That means I need to take another day off of work to set up another appointment somewhere else, and wait another week for the doctor to get the results, so that I can take another day off to go back to the doctor and talk about the results, so that he can send me to another specialist that requires I take another day off of work.

This runaround is bad for the economy, since I've had to take multiple days off of work just to do something that used to take an hour at the doctor's office. The doctors hate it, the customers hate it, the only people who like it are those who make money off the whole mess... the insurance companies.

[Schnoogs]

How does Obama only speak for 50% of the country? Cause he's a man, he can't speak for women?.

Interpretation fail of the century!!!

http://www.assassinworks.com/laugh.gif

[Schnoogs]

healthcare it is expensive and slow.

Wow...you just described national health care...ever wonder why rich people and politicians from Canada come state side for elective procedures.

I can tell I'm discussing this with someone who has no clue what he's talking about.

[crazyD]

How does Obama only speak for 50% of the country? Cause he's a man, he can't speak for women?

I would assume because he is a democrat.

[JayVe]

Wow...you just described national health care...ever wonder why rich people and politicians from Canada come state side for elective procedures.

I can tell I'm discussing this with someone who has no clue what he's talking about.

You are right. I have family in France where the national healthcare is quite good, and nothing like our predatory system here.

I must not know anything.:cool:

You, on the other hand, speak for 80% of our country.

[JayVe]

I would assume because he is a democrat.

I know. It was a joke that obviously needed one of these-->;)

Edit: Saying Obama speaks for only 50% of the country due to party affiliation is as senseless as saying he only speaks for 13% of the country because he is African American. Or that I speak for all 15.68 million US Wii owners, cause I voted Wii. Preposterous.

[Schnoogs]

I must not know anything.:cool:.

We already established that.

Rationed healthcare is never fast...elective procedures require long waits.

[Schnoogs]

I know. It was a joke that obviously needed one of these-->;)

Edit: Saying Obama speaks for only 50% of the country due to party affiliation is as senseless as saying he only speaks for 13% of the country because he is African American. Or that I speak for all 15.68 million US Wii owners, cause I voted Wii. Preposterous.

Oh brother...you really are either 15 or incredibly naive.

In 4 years he'll be lucky if he even speaks for the 50% that voted for him. See the last 8 years.

[JayVe]

We already established that.

Rationed healthcare is never fast...elective procedures require long waits.

Riiiight. Never used healthcare in Europe? Anyway, it is fun watching you parade around pointing fingers and calling names.

Have a good time. We know the truth.

[crazyD]

Shnoogs, if socialized health care is so horrible, what is the better option? Our current system makes it so poor people cannot afford health care, and even people who have it often do not get needed treatments, because insurance companies make money by not providing service. What do you advocate? A free market, heavilly regulated service? Something completely different? Status quo, because it works for you specifically?

[VerseD]

Well I live in the US. I get free health care.

Employee benefits for the win.

You don't get free health care. It comes out of your salary.

You still have something to gain under Obama's plan. It should lower the cost of all health care coverage as companies struggle to compete with the government's rates, which means your company will have more money, hopefully to pay to you.

Then so should free food, clothing and housing. Why limit it to health care. I eat far more often than I use my health benefits. I drink water daily and would die without it...it too should be free. :p

If people are starving there are ways for them to get all these things, but if they're sick, they can't get treatment without paying an arm and a leg.

If I see someone that needs help I do my best to help them. You can say that makes me a socialist but I think it makes me human.

Oh noes...something that is important has to be paid for!!!! Remember that the next time you buy a video game or some other frivolous expense.

Treating sick kids and the elderly is not a frivolous expense. Unless being without Gears of War 2 causes cancer?

[MagGnome]

I come from a family that was broken by medical problems and the hundreds of thousands of dollars in bills that followed. I remember waking up at night to hear my mother sobbing in the kitchen because the hospital kept sending bills, and creditors kept calling. Sobbing led to fighting, and fighting led to divorce.

Now obviously I'm not saying that with national healthcare my parents would still be married (not at all), but I've personally witnessed just how broken our "private" system is. My sister was kept alive for weeks by a machine that cost $10,000 a DAY. Ten thousand dollars, every day. How is that justified?

My parents spent several years battling health insurance companies and ultimately lost. Luckily my sister is alive and doing much better, but the insurance companies sure did their best to put their bottom line above the well-being of my family.

I only wish that Obama was for universal, national healthcare. Hopefully his plan will make a difference.

[Schnoogs]

Riiiight. Never used healthcare in Europe? Anyway, it is fun watching you parade around pointing fingers and calling names.

Have a good time. We know the truth.

The truth is out there

[KingGorilla]

Since when did health insurance and health care mean the same thing? If anyone is so clueless to think that even the insured have access to proper healthcare for even essential things, then they are either lucky, ignorant, or stupid. Ever see what eyeglasses cost? Ever see what preventive care costs? Which is also not covered by most insurance.

If healthcare reform ends with more people with a card guaranteeing them our overpriced medical care; Fuck that. So far privatized care has royally reamed the public, you can talk about the boogie man of socialism or communism until you are purple, but 200 years of the same BS has taught that the existing model is wrong.

[ShivaX]

The problem with health care in this country is that its for-profit.

They save money by denying people life and health. Part of the reason I hated McCain's plan was that it didn't address the real issues. If anything it was a minor change that shifted numbers around and didn't help anyone (and potentially could have hurt many).

The amount of money and power health insurance companies possess is mindblowing. States can't take them on and its not a service people can just go without. If car insurance worked like health insurance people wouldn't stand for it, yet for some reason they take it when it comes to lives instead of property.

If someone dying because of your actions (or lack thereof) is profitable to your company then it needs to be looked at. There needs to be an alternative that breaks the monopoly that drives up prices to where everyone needs the service.

[Xerxes]

Interpretation fail of the century!!!

http://www.assassinworks.com/laugh.gif

Fuck that shit. Yall get rid of eye rolliing, but this shit can still come up?!

http://forums.n-sider.com/images/smilies/standard/Smiley_Eye_Roll.gif

[MagGnome]

The problem with health care in this country is that its for-profit.

More words...

I fully agree. Privatization may work for a lot of things, but it doesn't work for everything, and healthcare is a great example. The insurance companies care about the bottom line and not about the health of their customers, and that is wrong.

Big Pharma isn't much better really, but they give so much money to politicians that they are basically immune to anything.

[KingGorilla]

It worked for mortgages...Oh Wait. It worked for airlines...Oh Wait.

[Schnoogs]

I fully agree. Privatization may work for a lot of things, but it doesn't work for everything, and healthcare is a great example. The insurance companies care about the bottom line and not about the health of their customers, and that is wrong.

Big Pharma isn't much better really, but they give so much money to politicians that they are basically immune to anything.

Privitization does work as long as you have choices.

[crazyD]

Privitization does work as long as you have choices.

We have choices today, just no good ones.

[Schnoogs]

We have choices today, just no good ones.

If you make informed ones you can start influencing how these companies conduct themselves.

Capitalism works pretty well.

[JayVe]

If you make informed ones you can start influencing how these companies conduct themselves.

Capitalism works pretty well.

Working wonders for Detroit, no?

Capitalism is very good at making people wealthy, but not a very good solution for caring for the sick.

[crazyD]

If you make informed ones you can start influencing how these companies conduct themselves.

Capitalism works pretty well.

How? If every choice is as bad as the others, then what difference does it make? Capitalism doesn't work if every option screws people just about the same. Anyway, I'm pretty much stuck with whatever my company chooses anyway, unless I want to pay for it entirely on my own.

Do you at least support government regulation of insurance companies?

[MagGnome]

Like KingGorilla said, capitalism and competition sure are working in the airline industry. ;)

[Schnoogs]

Working wonders for Detroit, no?

Huh??? It's working quite well for them...they made bad decisions and now they are paying the price.

Oh wait...you must be in favor of a bail out for them to. :confused:

[Schnoogs]

How? If every choice is as bad as the others, then what difference does it make? Capitalism doesn't work if every option screws people just about the same. Anyway, I'm pretty much stuck with whatever my company chooses anyway, unless I want to pay for it entirely on my own.

Do you at least support government regulation of insurance companies?

I have a lot of good choices through my job...then again thats one of the things I considered when I took the job.

[Schnoogs]

Like KingGorilla said, capitalism and competition sure are working in the airline industry. ;)

You cant just pick out a single industry and then rule out an economic philosophy that has almost universally worked around the world.

that would be like using Bush as an example as to why we shouldn't allow people to vote. :p

[crazyD]

I have a lot of good choices through my job...then again thats one of the things I considered when I took the job.

You ever think that not everyone is in as nice a position as you are?

[Schnoogs]

You ever think that not everyone is in as nice a position as you are?

Funny...thats the point I was trying to make to all of you who think its universally doom and gloom for Americans. :confused:

[KingGorilla]

Funny...thats the point I was trying to make to all of you who think its universally doom and gloom for Americans. :confused:

Obama is president, everything is different now.

[Schnoogs]

Obama is president, everything is different now.

Agreed...I just saw a cat and dog having sex.

[ShivaX]

Agreed...I just saw a cat and dog having sex.

Well, now I know what my nightmares will be of tonight.

[MagGnome]

You cant just pick out a single industry and then rule out an economic philosophy that has almost universally worked around the world.

that would be like using Bush as an example as to why we shouldn't allow people to vote. :p

I was using the airline industry as an example that privitization doesn't work in all areas, not as an example that capitalism itself is a total failure.

Personally I'm all for a blending of capitalism and socialism. I don't think that we should go completely one way or the other. Certain sectors should be government controlled (police, public utilities, healthcare, etc.) and the rest should be private. I'm not a communist by any means. :p

[crazyD]

Funny...thats the point I was trying to make to all of you who think its universally doom and gloom for Americans. :confused:

Right, not everyone is in a great position, not everyone is in a shitty position. Shouldn't we go for the option in which the least people are in a shitty position? Because I really doubt our current system is that, and you seem to be completely for status quo.

[muddi900]

Your post was two sentences...I responded to one of them because the other one was a statement about your country and zionism which is neither relevant to this thread and painfully obvious given the area of the world you come from.

I'm embarrassed for you on this one.

WTF!!

Let me spell it out for you!

Where I come from we are told to fear zionism. Where you come from you're told to fear socialism.

Meaning your fear is as irrational!

[JayVe]

Huh??? It's working quite well for them...they made bad decisions and now they are paying the price.

Oh wait...you must be in favor of a bail out for them to. :confused:

No. I'm not looking to bail out the auto industry, or the airline industry, or even the banking industry. They need to learn from their mistakes.

[bean]

It's silly to call him out over Prop 8 seeing as the majority of Californians voted for it. Maybe your beef should be the with the state and not him.

Why not both? I dislike all bigots.