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Mot Wakorb
05-01-2011, 08:57 PM
A shocker - Bin Laden is dead. President Obama to speak at 10:30 CST. No real text news yet on it, but TV and radio is lit up. Just heard on CNN that the US has the body, and can confirm his death.

Psykoboy2
05-01-2011, 08:58 PM
Where's his long form death certificate?

Zecon
05-01-2011, 09:00 PM
Wonderful news.
I wonder what impact this will have on the wars in the middle east.

evilgoodwin
05-01-2011, 09:00 PM
Did he drop any good loot?

Vanthar
05-01-2011, 09:02 PM
Suck it terrorism.

Someone put up an America FUCK YEAH video.

Wilkz07
05-01-2011, 09:03 PM
Heard this when they cut into celeb apprentice. whoever did it should get a medal.

LordDon
05-01-2011, 09:03 PM
Did he drop any good loot?

Oh god, I lost.

Ink Asylum
05-01-2011, 09:04 PM
Did he drop any good loot?

The next time you see Obama he will be wearing some EPIC shoulders.

Rock Bandit
05-01-2011, 09:08 PM
Marmalard? He's a dead man! Neidermeyer? Dead! Wormer? Dead! Bin Laden? DEAD!

rein
05-01-2011, 09:08 PM
8 years after Bush claimed victory we finally got him.

Rogue_hunter
05-01-2011, 09:10 PM
The next time you see Obama he will be wearing some EPIC shoulders.

Nah, he'll be rollin' to the press conference on his epic mount and the full set of Champion Armor.


Also, delicious timing, news announcement cut into Celebrity Apprentice. Flawless victory!

And twitter is just HILARIOUS with material right now.

ThievesAmongUs
05-01-2011, 09:11 PM
Suck it terrorism.

Someone put up an America FUCK YEAH video.

YZdJRDpLHbw

Done, and done.

But just for the record.....

FUCK YEAH !!!!

Rock Bandit
05-01-2011, 09:12 PM
8 years after Bush claimed victory we finally got him.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_H44IkuSV9qQ/TH1EkSRVDwI/AAAAAAAANtc/pp0IEgZmfRQ/s320/obama-mission-accomplished.jpg

Psykoboy2
05-01-2011, 09:14 PM
Yeah....Twitter right now is comedy gold!

Lance Uppercut
05-01-2011, 09:22 PM
http://i56.tinypic.com/2llkihc.jpg

pomeroy
05-01-2011, 09:23 PM
Yeah....Twitter right now is comedy gold!

Whereas my facebook feed sort of hurts my soul.

ThievesAmongUs
05-01-2011, 09:24 PM
http://img560.imageshack.us/img560/9686/osamsbinladen2lrg.jpg (http://img560.imageshack.us/i/osamsbinladen2lrg.jpg/)

Karak
05-01-2011, 09:24 PM
Good.

I hope he enjoys his virgins. And I hope they are as bad in the sack as virgins usually are.

bstiff
05-01-2011, 09:27 PM
Did he drop any good loot?

An epic turban.

bstiff
05-01-2011, 09:31 PM
Was just getting ready for bed when I saw the breaking report. Speculation is that it was a cia op. But who knows if the public will ever know for sure. Interesting that he was killed in Islamabad. Whether or not they were aware he was there, it's probably going to be a little rough for the leadership to explain when they've supposedly been scouring the country for him.

Wasson_
05-01-2011, 09:31 PM
A thanks to all our allies for helping us achieve this goal. Destruction of a figurehead of this magnitude is indeed a SERIOUS blow to the enemy's cause.

This is fucking awesome!!!

Special thanks to Pakistani cooperation!

Ink Asylum
05-01-2011, 09:33 PM
8 years after Bush claimed victory we finally got him.

8 years to the day.

National Kato
05-01-2011, 09:33 PM
Great news and an historic moment in our country's long healing.

Unfortunately, I don't think it will affect the collective of Al Qaeda very much, but it effectively destroys any attempts at painting Obama as soft on terror. Now I know why he was so full of swagger last night during the annual press dinner.

Widgetcraft
05-01-2011, 09:33 PM
Was just getting ready for bed when I saw the breaking report. Speculation is that it was a cia op. But who knows if the public will ever know for sure. Interesting that he was killed in Islamabad. Whether or not they were aware he was there, it's probably going to be a little rough for the leadership to explain when they've supposedly been scouring the country for him.

Yeah, in a mansion no-less, with his family. There is some talk of Pakistani intelligence being involved in the operation.

Superman's Dead
05-01-2011, 09:35 PM
They can't prove conclusively that Tupac was not at the scene of the murder.

I've also seen speculation that Robocop was involved.

Psykoboy2
05-01-2011, 09:44 PM
Obama's tweet about his press conference was his 1337 tweet.

Superman's Dead
05-01-2011, 09:44 PM
Honestly, I hear it was a crack commando unit that was sent to prison by a military court for a crime they didn't commit. These men promptly escaped from a maximum security stockade to the Los Angeles underground. Today, still wanted by the government, they survive as soldiers of fortune. If you have a problem, if no one else can help, and if you can find them, maybe you can hire... The A-Team.

Karak
05-01-2011, 09:49 PM
Honestly, I hear it was a crack commando unit that was sent to prison by a military court for a crime they didn't commit. These men promptly escaped from a maximum security stockade to the Los Angeles underground. Today, still wanted by the government, they survive as soldiers of fortune. If you have a problem, if no one else can help, and if you can find them, maybe you can hire... The A-Team.

I hate speech trained individuals. Hard to listen to the President talk. But unique news for sure. And he was right to call out some of the people we will never hear about in their intelligence jobs. I bet some serious beer will pass at some offices for the next couple weeks.

Continued investigation and tracking of him was nice too. Despite him no longer being in such a leadership roll he was destined to get turned into red mist at some point.

VerseD
05-01-2011, 09:52 PM
Hector is slain, lashed to a chariot, and dragged around the walls of Troy. War never changes.

Sandman
05-01-2011, 09:52 PM
Obama's tweet about his press conference was his 1337 tweet.

That is awesome.

National Kato
05-01-2011, 09:57 PM
So Obama's been involved in tracking this intel thread since August, meeting with advisors for several weeks while the special op was planned, and gave the order last week to strike.

This will make heroes of the team and it will take many years for the full story to be told due to the secrecy needed of that team, but man...strong day for the country.

Urizen
05-01-2011, 09:57 PM
A lot of people are throwing around the quote, "Bin Laden's death is like Ray Kroc's death; McDonald's is still in business". And while I suppose terrorism hasn't been vanquished, this is definitely a good news for everyone.

Also, how much do you have to hate McD's to compare Kroc to Bin Laden? I actually think the Big Mac is a decent burger.

Psykoboy2
05-01-2011, 09:58 PM
http://29.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lkjsa0vvlq1qzu2tdo1_400.gif

Urizen
05-01-2011, 10:00 PM
Hector is slain, lashed to a chariot, and dragged around the walls of Troy. War never changes.

Poignant, but...

Hector was an asshole. And anyone who took Bin Laden for a freedom fighter should take a long look at the fact this punk got his in a mansion.

Widgetcraft
05-01-2011, 10:07 PM
Okay, so when are they going to start passing out Mardi Gras beeds outside the White House? They're already climbing trees, and I could have swore that I just saw someone passing around a volley ball...

Ink Asylum
05-01-2011, 10:07 PM
http://29.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lkjsa0vvlq1qzu2tdo1_400.gif

What the hell is that from? :D

Karak
05-01-2011, 10:11 PM
Tomorrow...I wonder what the stock market will do as China and Russia's day of changing away from the US dollar is occurring. Supposedly a massive hit to stocks, but this may, at least a bit counteract that though it won't change the actual value or lack thereof of the dollar.

fitbabits
05-01-2011, 10:13 PM
Well, then... Interesting times ahead!

Pale Ale
05-01-2011, 10:23 PM
Hector is slain, lashed to a chariot, and dragged around the walls of Troy. War never changes.

A bitter lesson in don't stop bunny hopping, he probably could have gotten over the shield.

Psykoboy2
05-01-2011, 10:28 PM
http://i.imgur.com/KDssc.jpg

Zero
05-01-2011, 10:45 PM
That is such a great picture.

Orca
05-01-2011, 11:04 PM
I get that he orchestrated 9/11 and helped kill thousands of people, but it's a little sickening to see people dancing and singing in the streets by the thousands celebrating it. I mean when a Blackhawk gets taken down and the news shows Iraqis or Afghans celebrating, it's universally condemned (over here at least) as barbaric.

Shoe is on the other foot, and nobody seemed to realize we're just as barbaric.

johnperkins21
05-01-2011, 11:04 PM
Meh. Unless this prompts the government to abolish the DHS it's completely irrelevant.

Orca
05-01-2011, 11:06 PM
Meh. Unless this prompts the government to abolish the DHS it's completely irrelevant.

It'll probably get worse now, with the threat of retaliation. Wasn't there some Wikileaks about a nuclear bomb in Europe, with a threat related to Osama's eventual death?

Gwinny
05-01-2011, 11:19 PM
I get that he orchestrated 9/11 and helped kill thousands of people, but it's a little sickening to see people dancing and singing in the streets by the thousands celebrating it. I mean when a Blackhawk gets taken down and the news shows Iraqis or Afghans celebrating, it's universally condemned (over here at least) as barbaric.

Shoe is on the other foot, and nobody seemed to realize we're just as barbaric.

To be fair to us as a species, there are plenty of voices who share your opinion speaking out as well. In the US and abroad, judging by my particular social network circles. And plenty who are joining the gloating.

People are the same everywhere. By which I mean no "side" is composed of monolithic groups of perfectly like-minded robots. Hypocrisy, bloodthirstiness, introspection, and self-criticism are going to be found in all places.

edit: I didn't mean to direct that at you, specifically, your comment just was a good jumping-off point for my rather conflicted feelings. I should just keep my mouth shut.

Vigil80
05-01-2011, 11:30 PM
First, I have to take issue with the idea that the shoe is on the other foot. I'll save any speeches about victory over evil and whatnot. But, it isn't the same. Second, how is it universal if it's only "over here?" ;)

Yes, it's hardly mission accomplished, happily ever after. But given the thousands at the WTC who had other things on their mind besides oppressing middle eastern villages when their building fell on them, among others, I'm not going to hold it against anyone whose Monday is a little brighter tomorrow.

Superman's Dead
05-01-2011, 11:31 PM
I'm not saying that you're wrong, Orca, but I think there's a significant difference.

If a Blackhawk gets taken down just because it's from America, that's one thing. It's another thing when there is someone who was actually personal responsible for something getting what some people, including the president, believe is justice.

I'm trying to word this really carefully, and maybe someone can say it better. But the difference is personal responsibility. A lot of times American soldiers (or soldiers from any nation) not personally responsible for hardships die. This guy was personally responsible.

Wasson_
05-01-2011, 11:35 PM
Meh. Unless this prompts the government to abolish the DHS it's completely irrelevant.

wow, seriously? You do realize that this is Osama fucking Bin Laden we're talking about here, right?

muddi900
05-01-2011, 11:37 PM
I wish somebody had given CNN an Atlas. Or Google Maps. Abbotabad is outside Islamabad like Mexico City is outside Houston.

evilgoodwin
05-01-2011, 11:39 PM
The only downside is that we can't kill him twice.

Vigil80
05-01-2011, 11:40 PM
Some details:
A senior administration official says Obama gave the final order for U.S. officials to go after bin Laden on Friday. The official added that a small team found their quarry hiding in a large home in an affluent suburb of Islamabad. The raid occurred in the early morning hours Sunday.

Administration officials offered some details of the operation.

Based on statements given by U.S. detainees, intelligence officials have known for years that bin Laden trusted one al-Qaida courier in particular and they believed he might be living with him in hiding. In November, intelligence officials found out where he was living, a huge fortified compound in an affluent suburb of Islamabad. It was surrounded by walls as high as 18 feet high, topped with barbed wire. There were two security gates and no phone or Internet running into the house.

Intelligence officials believed the $1 million home was custom-built to harbor a major terrorist. CIA experts analyzed whether it could be anyone else, but time and again, they decided it was almost certainly bin Laden.

Three adult males were also killed in Sunday's raid, including one of bin Laden's sons, whom officials did not name. One of bin Laden's sons, Hamza, is a senior member of al-Qaida.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_bin_laden

johnperkins21
05-01-2011, 11:53 PM
wow, seriously? You do realize that this is Osama fucking Bin Laden we're talking about here, right?
And your point? Was he the only terrorist ever? Yeah, bad dude, good thing he's dead I guess, but virtually none of what it cost us to get him was worth it. Over 100 Billion dollars and 10 years of searching? That money and time could have been much better spent. And now we have the DHS and an overbearing TSA that thinks it's ok to eschew the Fourth Amendment and molest innocent people. Yeah, not worth it in the least.

Wasson_
05-01-2011, 11:54 PM
I get that he orchestrated 9/11 and helped kill thousands of people, but it's a little sickening to see people dancing and singing in the streets by the thousands celebrating it. I mean when a Blackhawk gets taken down and the news shows Iraqis or Afghans celebrating, it's universally condemned (over here at least) as barbaric.

Shoe is on the other foot, and nobody seemed to realize we're just as barbaric.


No random soldier on a crashed blackhawk ever conspired and coordinated not only perhaps the most horrific and highly visible war crimes in all of history but death and terrorism elsewhere and against multiple countries as well over the better part of a decade.

If you seriously can't draw any of the obvious distinction here, and are not just baa baa black-sheeping what you've been conditioned to say and think by "politically correct douchbags"...it like borders on like some aspergers syndrome kinda shit. Or your just a complete bleeding heart pussy.

VerseD
05-02-2011, 12:01 AM
I get that he orchestrated 9/11 and helped kill thousands of people, but it's a little sickening to see people dancing and singing in the streets by the thousands celebrating it. I mean when a Blackhawk gets taken down and the news shows Iraqis or Afghans celebrating, it's universally condemned (over here at least) as barbaric.

Shoe is on the other foot, and nobody seemed to realize we're just as barbaric.

I have a Colombian friend who told me this story about a similar victory in his country.

In September of last year, Colombian President Juan Manuel Santos announced that Mono Jojoy, the second in command Fuerzas Armadas Revolucionarias de Colombia and the rebel's top military commander, was killed in Meta in a massive raid by the Colombian army, which miraculously suffered no casualties -- none, that is, except for a bomb-sniffing dog that was killed by a landmine in the aftermath.

When it was announced that this villain lay dead, my friend cheered for his television, was filled with love for the soldiers, and mourned that poor dog, to whom the Republic later dedicated a statue. In the afternoon the news arrived by the narrower channels of family that Pablo's second cousin had died in an unrelated skirmish. He had been shot through the heart by a sniper, during a council of war held after the combat ended. Suddenly the images and patriotism of the screen were put into their right perspective.

"I started to see how stupid it was. We cheered that a man was dead, cried that a dog was dead, and no one cared that my cousin is dead. What the hell is this? It's a fucking dog. Soldiers die in the jungle every day, my cousin died, and all we care about is the fucking dog."

The body of my friend's cousin took four days to arrive home, moving by bus across the jungle, and was too decomposed to unseal the coffin for the mother to take a last look. This is the nature of war. While we cheer the death of one largely irrelevant man, and celebrate the accomplishment of justice, we forget the pound of flesh we paid.

Wasson_
05-02-2011, 12:10 AM
And your point? Was he the only terrorist ever? Yeah, bad dude, good thing he's dead I guess, but virtually none of what it cost us to get him was worth it. Over 100 Billion dollars and 10 years of searching? That money and time could have been much better spent.


Not worth it huh? Please justify your reason as to why it would have been better to just forget about the worldwide terrorism figurehead / leader of the organization we are currently at war with.

Superman's Dead
05-02-2011, 12:16 AM
Verse, I honestly don't know what media maelstrom you're paying attention to if you think anyone has forgotten any pound of flesh. Literally every other comment I see is about our soldiers overseas.

Vigil80
05-02-2011, 12:19 AM
"Irrelevant?" I'm not a US military intelligence analyst, but whatever one's feelings at this time, "irrelevant" seems like a short-sighted determination.

I won't say that the images of revelers don't give me a grim feeling. I won't comment on whether the effort was "worth it." What I will say - something I didn't really expect to before - is that President Obama put it best in his speech. "His demise should be welcomed by all who believe in peace and human dignity."

Scaryfaced
05-02-2011, 12:19 AM
I'm normally pretty bleeding heart, but I've got to agree with Wasson on this issue. We can all feel sullen about the incredibly high price we've paid for a single man's death, but please, please tell me a better alternative. Let the man who largely orchestrated the worst tragedy the US has had to endure since the WW2 just walk away? Sometimes, diplomacy is in order. Other times, fucking shit up is the only answer. In this case, I side with the later.

Vigil80
05-02-2011, 12:26 AM
Watching some television news - for the first time in a long time - and the word is that US officials are expected to arrange for a Muslim funeral service by 4pm tomorrow at an undisclosed location.

diablopath
05-02-2011, 12:34 AM
EDIT: blahblah whitehouse

Farsight
05-02-2011, 12:52 AM
I get that he orchestrated 9/11 and helped kill thousands of people

Do you?

I mean when a Blackhawk gets taken down and the news shows Iraqis or Afghans celebrating, it's universally condemned (over here at least) as barbaric.

Shoe is on the other foot, and nobody seemed to realize we're just as barbaric.

Really?

First, your comparison isn't remotely similar. An equal situation would be if it had been announced that a random terrorist footsoldier had been killed, and people started celebrating.

There are only a handful of bigger mass murderers left alive on the planet. I don't feel the need to dance in the street, but the world is better off without that waste of humanity, I'm glad he's dead, and I laugh at any attempt to make me feel guilty about that.

Deadend
05-02-2011, 12:57 AM
I can't wait to hear the backlash from the right about how Bin Laden doesn't matter, then the Daily Show will run clips of them saying the exact opposite thing.

Glad the guy is dead and all, but I'm a bit disappointed. As Michael Jackson dying took down Twitter, Bin Laden? Nope. I guess Bin Laden isn't that big of a deal.

johnperkins21
05-02-2011, 12:59 AM
Not worth it huh? Please justify your reason as to why it would have been better to just forget about the worldwide terrorism figurehead / leader of the organization we are currently at war with.
The war in Afghanistan costs $300 million dollars per day. Per day! That figure alone should be enough to convince anyone that it's not worth it. Imagine all the good that could be done with that much money. What if we spent that money on building schools and hospitals in Afghanistan rather than killing people? Can you imagine how much more detrimental it would be to the idea of terrorism?

I'm normally pretty bleeding heart, but I've got to agree with Wasson on this issue. We can all feel sullen about the incredibly high price we've paid for a single man's death, but please, please tell me a better alternative. Let the man who largely orchestrated the worst tragedy the US has had to endure since the WW2 just walk away? Sometimes, diplomacy is in order. Other times, fucking shit up is the only answer. In this case, I side with the later.
Who said anything about walking away? I just don't think the cost was worth it. I say prove that we're not the devil. We can't fight terrorism with bullets, it simply provides ammunition for those that would choose to paint us as evil.

We will never, ever completely eradicate terrorism. But invading countries and making people fear us makes us terrorists as well.

diablopath
05-02-2011, 01:08 AM
Can't we all just share a shit eating grin that one massive piece of shit is dead? Let's debate the costs and the future tomorrow.

Tonight, shit eating grins.

Vigil80
05-02-2011, 01:08 AM
I can't wait to hear the backlash from the right about how Bin Laden doesn't matter, then the Daily Show will run clips of them saying the exact opposite thing.
I wouldn't hold my breath. One or two wingnuts who don't realize it's political suicide, maybe, but the collective "right?" I highly doubt it.

Can't we all just share a shit eating grin that one massive piece of shit is dead? Let's debate the costs and the future tomorrow.

Tonight, shit eating grins.
I agree with you, but don't expect much. Too many people concerned about grinding their axes to let this moment in history air out for long.

Draconis
05-02-2011, 01:12 AM
The war in Afghanistan costs $300 million dollars per day. Per day! That figure alone should be enough to convince anyone that it's not worth it. .

I am sure nearly 3,000 dead souls and the peace of mind brought to those families who have lost their loved ones on that tragic day, by the death of this mass murderer would heavily disagree with you

Vigil80
05-02-2011, 01:39 AM
Apparently, bin Laden was buried at sea and according to Muslim custom within the past 2 hours. Again, the site is undisclosed.

OUX
05-02-2011, 02:04 AM
I am sure nearly 3,000 dead souls and the peace of mind brought to those families who have lost their loved ones on that tragic day, by the death of this mass murderer would heavily disagree with you

Well fuck them. The *insert much much larger number* of people dead, soldiers and civilians, probably don't get any comfort from this and I bet their families don't either. This was never about justice. Some of us died, so we killed more of them. Huzzah. We only meant to kill the bad ones. Aren't we benevolent? If you are happy he is dead, that is fine. Be happy. Just don't lie to be righteous. You don't deserve it. Blood for the Blood God.

Sure 9/11 was bad, but it was 3,000 people and a bunch of plaster 10 years ago. Are we so incensed by an American's wrongful, avoidable death? Where is our war on drunk driving? Oh, that's right. It was never about those 3,000 dead. If we had spent a fraction of the money we spent chasing after this political tool at home or even just saved it we would be much better off today.

The graybeard was never the devil. He was a very rich jerk that had political and possibly religious agendas. He since had the vast majority of his money frozen. Mainly he was used as a figurehead to incite the American people to mistrust "thems over theres." We kept him current. We kept him notorious. We played his tapes. Made him a star. Building him up so his fall was a victory. We did it because justice is boring. We needed a show to keep us entertained. Aren't we benevolent?

Lithium Flower
05-02-2011, 02:05 AM
That was quick. I don't like the opaqueness here. I wish there was more obvious proof that it really was him and that he really is dead, like with Saddam. This whole 'dead of the night, buried at sea, no body' is less straight forward than I would have liked.

Superman's Dead
05-02-2011, 02:09 AM
A lot of people seem to be turning the single most straightforward action in America's War on Terror into a huge mass of complexity. This is literally the first action you would expect America to take. It's like...the absolute baseline. I don't understand people sometimes.

Vigil80
05-02-2011, 02:11 AM
People seem to forget that 9/11 was not the only item on bin Laden's resume.

I don't understand people sometimes.
You can say that again.

That was quick. I don't like the opaqueness here. I wish there was more obvious proof that it really was him and that he really is dead, like with Saddam. This whole 'dead of the night, buried at sea, no body' is less straight forward than I would have liked.
I think I agree. But in practical terms, I can imagine the impetus behind getting it over with right away. Wherever the body would have been kept would have been a huge target. If you wait longer than a day, you're violating Muslim funeral tradition and adding fuel to the fire of opposition. (Though they don't/won't need an excuse, really.)

Lithium Flower
05-02-2011, 02:34 AM
I'm familiar with muslim funeral traditions being Pakistani and having been raised as one and I can say with some certainty that a land burial is vastly preferable to any other kind (exceptions only possible where one is at sea and at least 7 days or more from a port). Given that the nearest sea from Islamabad is 1500 km south in the opposite direction from Afghanistan, I'm sure a burial telecast live or at least attended by a few journalists from an undisclosed location, a few hours later in the day would have been better in silencing the conspiracy theories that are going to be taken up in earnest after this, around these parts. The way this thing has been handled is more fuel for the 'this whole thing was an American pretext for involvement and there was no Osama bin Laden behind 9/11' theories popular with non-sympathisers.

menage
05-02-2011, 02:55 AM
First, your comparison isn't remotely similar. An equal situation would be if it had been announced that a random terrorist footsoldier had been killed, and people started celebrating.


Not to take sides here, but that could have been due to the fact footsoldiers get taken down every day over there, by the dozens. And you hardly hear about them. If an allied soldier dies it's all over the news in OMG how could this happen kind of way. Well, we send him into war, that's what happened.

I'm still always baffeled by the West not realizing that our people can actually die as well over there. Like we're so guarded by our expensive technology and superior fighting skils it's actualy a shock when anybody dies for real. Maybe the fact that they took down a "machine from the self proclaimed war gods" made them dance more than the fact they shot down a chopper. It's a symbol we created ourselves, so they are going to repspond the way we portrayed oursleves.

Shooting down a Blackhawk hardly is a good comparisson for killing a footsoldier imo.

But cheers for him being dead (although I am a pictures or it didn't happen guy), he deserved it one way or another. But like others said, it came at quite a price. And I hardly think terrorism is dead now. There's probably a couple of em lined up to take his place and claim revenge as we speak.

On a sidenote: Paris Hilton is glad as well, now I can sleep easy. Sometimes Twitter has to die.

Squidbot
05-02-2011, 03:10 AM
He was buried at sea already?

Scaryfaced
05-02-2011, 03:10 AM
Who said anything about walking away? I just don't think the cost was worth it. I say prove that we're not the devil. We can't fight terrorism with bullets, it simply provides ammunition for those that would choose to paint us as evil.

We will never, ever completely eradicate terrorism. But invading countries and making people fear us makes us terrorists as well.

I'd still like to hear the alternative that seems to be floating out there in the aether that I'm unaware of. No one mentioned walking away? I can concede to that. Name an alternative. Any alternative. What would've been the better option?

I've never been a fan of our war in Iraq. It was a giant misstep and I'd be surprised to hear anyone say different. That's all far, far out of my control. A specific group of people with a specific figure head attacked us and neither of those groups were Iraqi in origin. That figure head, as far as we know, is now dead. Shot and killed by US troops. I'm completely OK with that. Thats pretty much sums up my opinion on this issue.

We can wax poetic on what does and doesn't make a terrorist. Frankly, I'm in complete agreement with you on that basic assumption. Terrorism is idealistic and can't be fixed by brute force. And yet, sometimes people just need to a bullet in the head. Will it solve all of our problems? Hell no. Was it the right thing to do? Yes, a million times, YES.

Also, I'm not suspicious in the least about the events leading up to his death. Conspiracies and cover ups don't happen 10 year after an event. That's just silly on the part of the conspirators. You strike while the iron's hot, not years after it's cooled. Perhaps that's not what Lithium's getting at. In that case, I'm reading that all wrong.

Draconis
05-02-2011, 04:35 AM
OUX,


Interesting, that you append my statement as to being solely my opinion. Moreso interesting, is that you reacted so strongly, but I digress.

I stated what I did, without the preclusion to defend myself, because in a general summary, that is how some have reacted to this.

To be honest, I am amazed that you dismiss the dead and their families so readily. So, in general, you feel that the heartache of pain of those who have lost loved ones should be dismissed? That the pain they feel when they look across the table at dinner and see an empty chair is meaningless?

Well then, your opinion and thoughts are duly noted. May your words be a testament to your character in things to come.



In general, most feel justice was done. The situation would be no different were he captured alive and tried here in the states. Everyone knows he would suffer the Death Penalty.

We put to death mass murderers and their ilk frequently, his stature as a mass murderer of 3,000 people is no less warranted then any other individual put in jail. If you feel differently OUX, that is fine, that is your opinion, and when I was an american soldier in the armed forces I served for many in the united states to have that opinion, even though I disagree with it.

My brother was on the battlefield in Afghanistan...twice. He attained a bronze star for his service and I prayed every day he was out in the field to God that he could come home alive and safe to his family and his two little girls, as well as for the Lord to keep safe the soldiers who served with him. My brother witnessed comrades of his die in front of him. Perhaps more times then I care to know. War is something that hits closer to home for me then many, and not just because of my Brother.


Do not think to belittle me. Do not think to demean me. You attach an opinion to me that is not my own.

Unlike you, I do not simply mass the tragic events of that day into a simple callous lump statement of " It was a bad day where a bunch of plaster fell and some people died. "

Those were families. Children. Loved ones who will never be coming back. And despite that fact that many feel justice has been done, Osama Bin Laden's death DOES not bring them back. It does NOT fill that hollow hole in their heart, that gnaws at their soul and brings tears of despair to the surface. To be honest, I am amazed that you are so callously dismissive of such a tremendous loss of life. But perhaps that is in your nature, I do not know.


You also went on some...upended rant that shot about aimlessly like a finless missile, errant about it's ways and not quite sure what target to aim for or hit.


So let me be blunt. This is my opinion.


Osama Bin Laden's death was called for, justly, for his actions. If someone gunned down a member of my own family, or murdered them, you bet your ass I would be calling for blood. I personally only connect his actions to the multiple deaths that have occurred at his planning, not just 9/11, but the many other incidents that he masterminded that took countless lives.

But the news of his death brings me no joy. Rather, my thoughts turn to those who lost loved ones on that day. Those will never be coming back. While this may give some sense of justice being done, it only reopens old wounds, perhaps, maybe, finally allowing them to heal some. It does not however, make it any more painless, nor less difficult to endure in my heartfelt opinion.

His death will not bring closure for many, it will not bring dead family members back. My thoughts only turn to wishing those who suffered that loss, and those who died on that day and the many others when terrorist attacks took lives, a moment of silence to them in respect out of the deepest sympathy for them and their loved ones.

I am not a self righteous individual, nor did I lie. I would ask kindly that you not place words in my mouth, nor label me something that I am not, in your moments of heated anger. I did you as a individual no such injustice.


Since the entire start of this, my mind has only been on the thoughts of those who have died, those who have shed their blood on that day, and those of the soldiers who now serve and have served our country, and who have died and fought for the freedoms they have, and the voices we as Americans speak freely with.


I wonder...how many people daily think, when they walk up to a vending machine to buy a can of coke, or go to a store and get a bag of M&M's, if they pause and ponder, even for a second....that people DIED for such a simplistic freedom that so many civilians take for granted nowadays.


Freedom is not something many truly understand, until they have it taken away from them. Then it becomes something else, something breathtaking with a life all it's own, and it becomes integral to the core of a person who comes to that realization.

So all I will say is thus, God bless the families who have lost loved ones on 9/11, God bless the families who have sent their children and husbands and wives away to War...only to have a flag covered casket come home. May he bless those in other countries who have lost loved ones to Al Qaeda's terrorist attacks.

We as Americans may not agree on the wars, it's purpose, or even its results. But that does not mean the achievements or intent of their purpose, or the loss of ANY life, should be so callously dismissed.

The war was started in Afghanistan to bring Osama Bin Laden to justice. That has been done.

Let's bring our people home.

Narradisall
05-02-2011, 04:40 AM
I just flicked on the news to see it's blown up with this story. I'd thought it only just happened!

And yes, I lost on the loot comment too.

Purple Santa
05-02-2011, 05:04 AM
Good.

I hope he enjoys his virgins. And I hope they are as bad in the sack as virgins usually are.
I had no idea you have been with sacks of virgins. You do have many tales don't you ;)
He was buried at sea already?

a quote from the NYTimes story:

After a firefight, they killed Osama bin Laden and took custody of his body.” Muslim tradition requires burial within 24 hours, but by doing it at sea, American authorities presumably were trying to avoid creating a shrine for his followers.

Hotcod
05-02-2011, 05:06 AM
The war was started in Afghanistan to bring Osama Bin Laden to justice. That has been done.

Putting a bullet in his head in the dead of night and then dumping his body in the sea... funny sense of justice you have there since it sounds almost entirely like an act of revenge. Not saying it is but I'm just making a point.

What happened here is the US assassinated a leader of a group they are at war with. Which is likely a very very good thing for that war... but justice? Justice is a trail and punishment, even if the out come is clear to every one involved it still should be done because it is important. It's just not what happened here, what happened hear was an act in war. Likely a one you can easily argue is moral but that is a whole other debate.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying you can't be happy that his dead just that you should cearly examine if that feels comes from a sense of justice being done or of an war objective been reached or a simple sense of revenage for what he did.

Widgetcraft
05-02-2011, 05:24 AM
Revenge gets a bad rap. I'm quite fond of it, myself.

Narradisall
05-02-2011, 05:34 AM
Wait, where did Ox go on holiday?

Squidbot
05-02-2011, 05:34 AM
I guess Osama bin Laden regrets using his real address on PSN...

Widgetcraft
05-02-2011, 05:37 AM
I guess Osama bin Laden regrets using his real address on PSN...

It would have been fine if he hadn't used his real birthday. That's how they get you.

Narradisall
05-02-2011, 05:39 AM
It would have been fine if he hadn't used his real birthday. That's how they get you.

I lost.

The only thing that I find odd so far, is no pictures of th body. They showed Saddam, and given they had to give him a quick burial, and I understand why they did it at an undiclosed sea location, you think given the way people are they would put up some solid proof, given the man in question. Otherwise people will still believe he is alive!

bstiff
05-02-2011, 05:56 AM
I get that he orchestrated 9/11 and helped kill thousands of people, but it's a little sickening to see people dancing and singing in the streets by the thousands celebrating it. I mean when a Blackhawk gets taken down and the news shows Iraqis or Afghans celebrating, it's universally condemned (over here at least) as barbaric.

Shoe is on the other foot, and nobody seemed to realize we're just as barbaric.

I don't recall seeng anyone dragging osama's body through the streets.

KidCactus
05-02-2011, 06:02 AM
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-l4RInuPZhzU/Tb4vRfRe8hI/AAAAAAAAMn0/nVqXr0PouXM/s1600/FOX-IS-RACIST.jpg

Is that image fake or real, anyone knows?

Hotcod
05-02-2011, 06:12 AM
Revenge gets a bad rap. I'm quite fond of it, myself.

ya but we all know you're a sociopath :D

menage
05-02-2011, 06:25 AM
I don't recall seeng anyone dragging osama's body through the streets.

I don't recall seeing it at all:D

Voodoo
05-02-2011, 06:39 AM
This is extremely good news. :)
8 years to the day.
8 years plus 1 day. Mission Accomplished was on 5/1 and Osama was killed on 5/2. It would appear to be 5/1 to those of us in America but it was actually 5/2. Unless you're going by confirmation announcement? I guess so...

TheKeck
05-02-2011, 06:41 AM
I lost.

Ditto .

muddi900
05-02-2011, 06:45 AM
I lost.

The only thing that I find odd so far, is no pictures of th body. They showed Saddam, and given they had to give him a quick burial, and I understand why they did it at an undiclosed sea location, you think given the way people are they would put up some solid proof, given the man in question. Otherwise people will still believe he is alive!

Uday and Qusay got pictures published, and nobody gave a fuck about them. People will believe he's still alive, given the atmosphere nowadays.

Reverant
05-02-2011, 06:53 AM
Personally, I've never found a death (even of a villain) something to be celebrated. I've seen plenty of post-action photos from these types of operations, and they are brutal. If you take a photo of some dude with half his head blown off and start cheering and celebrating, then you are fucking twisted. I saw two chicks swinging around on a lamp post in a picture at the Washington Post in "celebration" of Bin Laden's death. If they'd seen photos of the operation's aftermath, such as the shredded body of the woman used as a human shield, or the explosion of blood and entrails that used to be part of Bin Laden, those happy ladies would be puking instead.

I'm not glad per se that he's dead; rather, I feel that the book has been finished. Queue the epilogue, bring back the troops. He should have been brought back for trial, but what's done is done.

That said, this whole thing is rather curious. No proof of kill, just a report that he'd been shot in the head and then "identified by facial recognition". Body swiftly dumped in the sea. One of the two helicopters that went out malfunctioned when they tried to take off, so they blew it up (that's not actually unusual, but it makes the story more mysterious!) I can't wait to read the details... when the documents are declassified in 30 years.

Also, an hour north of Islamabad? Next to a Pakistani military base and a training academy? I suspect that someone in the ISI knew about this. Reportedly, the US didn't share its intelligence with Pakistan (or any allies), so I figure that they suspected the same thing.

bstiff
05-02-2011, 07:15 AM
Personally, I've never found a death (even of a villain) something to be celebrated. I've seen plenty of post-action photos from these types of operations, and they are brutal. If you take a photo of some dude with half his head blown off and start cheering and celebrating, then you are fucking twisted. I saw two chicks swinging around on a lamp post in a picture at the Washington Post in "celebration" of Bin Laden's death. If they'd seen photos of the operation's aftermath, such as the shredded body of the woman used as a human shield, or the explosion of blood and entrails that used to be part of Bin Laden, those happy ladies would be puking instead.

I'm not glad per se that he's dead; rather, I feel that the book has been finished. Queue the epilogue, bring back the troops. He should have been brought back for trial, but what's done is done.

That said, this whole thing is rather curious. No proof of kill, just a report that he'd been shot in the head and then "identified by facial recognition". Body swiftly dumped in the sea. One of the two helicopters that went out malfunctioned when they tried to take off, so they blew it up (that's not actually unusual, but it makes the story more mysterious!) I can't wait to read the details... when the documents are declassified in 30 years.

Also, an hour north of Islamabad? Next to a Pakistani military base and a training academy? I suspect that someone in the ISI knew about this. Reportedly, the US didn't share its intelligence with Pakistan (or any allies), so I figure that they suspected the same thing.

yeah the whole thing is a little suspicious. A fotified mansion, with extremely heavy security but no phone lines or internet in a major city with all sort of mysterious comings and goings on Pakistan's doorstep and NO ONE in pakistan thought that was sttrange? Word is pakistan was notified after that fact. Which is probably likely given his multiple escapes at the last minute in the past.

Ink Asylum
05-02-2011, 07:28 AM
Oh boy! Another conspiracy theory to replace the birther nonsense!

In all seriousness, do you think Obama would announce this if they weren't 100% certain that the man they killed was Osama Bin Laden? Imagine the blowback if Osama popped up in a few weeks with a current newspaper and talked about how Obama has killed someone else.

National Kato
05-02-2011, 07:30 AM
That said, this whole thing is rather curious. No proof of kill, just a report that he'd been shot in the head and then "identified by facial recognition". Body swiftly dumped in the sea. One of the two helicopters that went out malfunctioned when they tried to take off, so they blew it up (that's not actually unusual, but it makes the story more mysterious!)

I'm not sure where you're getting your info, but everything I heard on the major networks last night said they confirmed bin Laden's identity by using 'familial DNA.' Do you really think they just relied upon a dude on the ground saying, 'Yeah, looks like him?' That's silly.

bstiff
05-02-2011, 07:34 AM
Oh boy! Another conspiracy theory to replace the birther nonsense!

In all seriousness, do you think Obama would announce this if they weren't 100% certain that the man they killed was Osama Bin Laden? Imagine the blowback if Osama popped up in a few weeks with a current newspaper and talked about how Obama has killed someone else.

Yeah if it wasn't him there would be videos of him on al jazeera saying he was still alive running non stop right now.

Reverant
05-02-2011, 07:36 AM
I'm not sure where you're getting your info, but everything I heard on the major networks last night said they confirmed bin Laden's identity by using 'familial DNA.' Do you really think they just relied upon a dude on the ground saying, 'Yeah, looks like him?' That's silly.

Washington Post or New York Times, can't remember which. And yes, that does happen.

Suave Peanut
05-02-2011, 07:38 AM
Also, delicious timing, news announcement cut into Celebrity Apprentice. Flawless victory!

http://i.imgur.com/09fM7.jpg

National Kato
05-02-2011, 07:40 AM
And yes, that does happen.

Sure, it happens. But not for someone like Saddam or bin Laden. This op been going on since August of 2010. This isn't the time when the CIA wants to 'wing it.' They made sure it was him.

Serapth
05-02-2011, 07:40 AM
What a different world we living in where American actions are aligned more to not inflame the muslim world ( either by pissing on their customs, or by shrining and deifying a potential martyr ) than they are winning political clout back home by parading around the corpse on an American flag.

I am actually kinda impressed.


The body though, if they didn't document the shit out of this, photo the body from every possible angle, take DNA samples and poke it with a sharp stick to make 100% sure he was 100% dead... I smell a rat. That would be stupidity at an epic level, that will keep Osama alive forever with Elvis rocking it out at Area 51.

Sandman
05-02-2011, 07:40 AM
Guys, you realize Jack Bauer's day is still going right? If he killed Osama yesterday, that was only the end of the first arc.

Narradisall
05-02-2011, 07:43 AM
Oh boy! Another conspiracy theory to replace the birther nonsense!

In all seriousness, do you think Obama would announce this if they weren't 100% certain that the man they killed was Osama Bin Laden? Imagine the blowback if Osama popped up in a few weeks with a current newspaper and talked about how Obama has killed someone else.

Thats the thing about conspirarcy theorists Ink, they only need the tiniest of gaps in the 'proof' to claim it's all a big cover up.

I'm just surprised they didn't notice the mansions of Tupac, Elvis and the Big Bopper when they hit Osama.

Serapth
05-02-2011, 07:44 AM
Ok, what I don't get is... was this act authorized by Pakistan? Straight out the president said that nobody knew beyond a handful of Americans, so it leads me to believe no.


Now, I logistically understand why, to my understanding Pakistani intelligent is pretty damned porous and Osama would have been informed about 14 seconds later. That said, the US just performed a black ops strike, publicly on an allies sovereign soil, rather a big no no.

I mean, if anyone except perhaps the Mossad performed a black op on US soil the shit would hit the fan.

Xydarc
05-02-2011, 07:45 AM
I guess Osama bin Laden regrets using his real address on PSN...
I lost.

Congratulations to the Navy SEAL team on a job well done. Even more impressive that the team did not suffer any casualties.

Ink Asylum
05-02-2011, 07:46 AM
A man unwittingly livetweets the raid. (http://chirpstory.com/li/1288)

Mot Wakorb
05-02-2011, 07:47 AM
Ok, what I don't get is... was this act authorized by Pakistan? Straight out the president said that nobody knew beyond a handful of Americans, so it leads me to believe no.


Now, I logistically understand why, to my understanding Pakistani intelligent is pretty damned porous and Osama would have been informed about 14 seconds later. That said, the US just performed a black ops strike, publicly on an allies sovereign soil, rather a big no no.

I mean, if anyone except perhaps the Mossad performed a black op on US soil the shit would hit the fan.

Sometimes it's easier to ask forgiveness than permission. Not only that, the question becomes, if people had informed people in Pakistan, would last night have happened? I can't obviously speak, nor am I jumping to conclusions, but the question is out there.

National Kato
05-02-2011, 07:51 AM
Ok, what I don't get is... was this act authorized by Pakistan? Straight out the president said that nobody knew beyond a handful of Americans, so it leads me to believe no.

Serapth, last night both CNN and FOX reported Pakistan's top national security agency, the Army's Directorate for Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI), was involved. They may not have stormed the compound along with the SEALs, but they appear to have been helping in some way.

Serapth
05-02-2011, 07:51 AM
Sometimes it's easier to ask forgiveness than permission. Not only that, the question becomes, if people had informed people in Pakistan, would last night have happened? I can't obviously speak, nor am I jumping to conclusions, but the question is out there.



Yeah but in those cases, you keep it quite with a nod and a wink. There have been all kinds of black ops in foreign countries, you just don't generally brazenly take credit for them! Well again, unless you are the Mossad.

Not that Pakistani can do a damned thing about it, but I should rather imagine the US just violated international law in a big way.

Serapth
05-02-2011, 07:52 AM
Serapth, last night both CNN and FOX reported Pakistan's top national security agency, the Army's Directorate for Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI), was involved. They may not have stormed the compound along with the SEALs, but they appear to have been helping in some way.



They did? Interesting, that is what I was asking. It directly defies what I read from Obama, but makes a bit more sense.

National Kato
05-02-2011, 07:56 AM
They did? Interesting, that is what I was asking. It directly defies what I read from Obama, but makes a bit more sense.

I assume Obama didn't want to inflame tensions within Pakistan by laying all his cards on the table and saying the ISI helped - you don't want riots breaking out in Pakistan against the government, but before his speech last night as the networks were waiting and getting new details, it was reported that an ISI top official confirmed the kill, identity of bin Laden, and that there was some shared intel between our countries in the run up to the raid.

Now, that might be Pakistan trying to cover their ass, but we'll know more as the week progresses.

muddi900
05-02-2011, 08:00 AM
I can't wait to read the details... when the documents are wikileaked in 2 years.

Corrected that. :D


Also, an hour north of Islamabad? Next to a Pakistani military base and a training academy? I suspect that someone in the ISI knew about this. Reportedly, the US didn't share its intelligence with Pakistan (or any allies), so I figure that they suspected the same thing.

According to the ISI chief, the american forces were supported by local forces. (http://www.thehindu.com/news/international/article1985162.ece)

The area was cordoned-off through out the night, so there was some local assistance.


@Serapth:
It's called being a Vassal state.


@Voodoo:
It was May 2nd in Abottabad then, too. :p

Reverant
05-02-2011, 08:00 AM
They identified him by intelligence before the operation, facial recognition during, and DNA afterwards (how long does that take, anyway? My wife said maybe 12 hours, but there is a limit to her encyclopedic knowledge of medicine).

It's not like they knocked on his door yesterday, asked for a sample, and came back later. I'm not contesting that they identified the right guy in the end. The lack of documentation and rapid disposal of the body is curious; Saddam Hussein's death was broadcast worldwide. I doubt anything suspicious occurred in the process, and that it was conducted rapidly because they just wanted it over with.

There very well probably is photo documentation. It's possible we won't see it for thirty years. The disappearance of Osama absent concrete proof is confusing and demoralizing. Plastering photos of him dead would be like throwing gas on a fire and could instigate an intense wave of suicide attacks. The confusion and doubt brought by an ambiguous death delays and spaces out the inevitable backlash.

Edit: Well, apparently the ISI helped identify him. Earlier reports I read said that Pakistan was deliberately kept in the dark, which makes a lot of sense from the tactical perspective. The ISI's history is insidious at worst and its dedication to helping the Americans is questionable at best. Given the proximity of Bin Laden's compound to major Pakistani installations, someone in the ISI had to know where he was. Whether or not they wanted him dead is another matter.

Panthera
05-02-2011, 08:02 AM
So...

...when's the Arma II mission going to be ready?

Serapth
05-02-2011, 08:04 AM
Now, that might be Pakistan trying to cover their ass, but we'll know more as the week progresses.

Yes, but how much of it true. :D


Its such a politically charged issue all around, so you know there is going to be a lot of bullshit attached. Pakistan is a powder keg... I mean, there IS a reason Osama made his home there! There has been a heavy anti-US sentiment there due to the various unauthorized drone attacks over the years. On the US soil, with two extremely unpopular wars ongoing and an economy that is still pretty damned fragile, good news is needed, badly. The death of Obama is about one of the only thing most Lefties and Righties can get behind. Well except of course the extremists on both sides.

muddi900
05-02-2011, 08:05 AM
I assume Obama didn't want to inflame tensions within Pakistan by laying all his cards on the table and saying the ISI helped - you don't want riots breaking out in Pakistan against the government, but before his speech last night as the networks were waiting and getting new details, it was reported that an ISI top official confirmed the kill, identity of bin Laden, and that there was some shared intel between our countries in the run up to the raid.

Now, that might be Pakistan trying to cover their ass, but we'll know more as the week progresses.

I don't know what you guys think, but people stop giving a fuck about him 5 years ago and nobody started rioting during cablegate. That sort of shit only happens when the political parties organize them.

Serapth
05-02-2011, 08:08 AM
It's called being a Vassal state.


Actually, thats why its such a political tightrope. I wonder how many Pakistani's feel exactly that was as a result?




Whats the general reaction on the ground? I was under the impression Pakistan was pretty split on their feelings about Osama, with the tribal border regions and most rural areas being pretty much being pro-Taliban, while the urban centers are anti. Are people generally happy, unhappy, worried or what in Pakistan right now?

Ink Asylum
05-02-2011, 08:15 AM
mMP7Ys57ha4

Serapth
05-02-2011, 08:16 AM
As much as I want to laugh at Fox for fucking up and calling Osama Obama, I can't, simply because I do it every fucking time I type either name. Up to and including this post ( honestly ).

Psykoboy2
05-02-2011, 08:18 AM
I saw plenty of those mistakes on twitter.

Voodoo
05-02-2011, 08:19 AM
@Voodoo: It was May 2nd in Abottabad then, too. :p
:confused: That's what I said. :confused:

Serapth
05-02-2011, 08:20 AM
:confused: That's what I said. :confused:

Actually, wasn't that entirely the point of your post! ;)

Voodoo
05-02-2011, 08:22 AM
Actually, wasn't that entirely the point of your post! ;)
Yeah, pretty much. I keep seeing people bring up Hitler too (whom died on April 30th). Sure the dates are very close but I'd like to stave off the conspiracy theorists please... :D

Serapth
05-02-2011, 08:27 AM
Yeah, pretty much. I keep seeing people bring up Hitler too (whom died on April 30th). Sure the dates are very close but I'd like to stave off the conspiracy theorists please... :D

... well, Like Hitler... there is no body. ;)


Just starting early.....

National Kato
05-02-2011, 08:28 AM
The death of Obama is about one of the only thing most Lefties and Righties can get behind.

Just call him 'bin Laden' so you don't keep making the mistake. :cool:

Narradisall
05-02-2011, 08:29 AM
Stolen from the laugh you lose thread.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v446/WOLVERYNE/JbU2F.png

ClannerDelta
05-02-2011, 08:30 AM
As much as I want to laugh at Fox for fucking up and calling Osama Obama, I can't, simply because I do it every fucking time I type either name. Up to and including this post ( honestly ).

Yeah, I do the same thing. It's not malicious, the names just sound similar.

I'm not over joyed or celebrating, but I'm certainly glad he's dead. I don't mind the lack of a trial either. A trial wouldn't have been any more "just" than just putting a bullet in his head. It would have been nothing more than a show trial. It would have simply put more people in danger and given him a podium from which to preach.

Also, VerseD, I think you underestimate how many of us remember the price that has been paid. I also think your point was more insulting than you intended.

Reverant
05-02-2011, 08:33 AM
Aw, I got beat to a picture. Oh well!

http://www.yasrsly.com/wp-content/main/2011_05/obama-sorry-it-took-so-long.jpg

Serapth
05-02-2011, 08:34 AM
Just call him 'bin Laden' so you don't keep making the mistake. :cool:

Ironically I don't because I always spell it 'bin Ladin'. :D


I blame my dyslexia.

muddi900
05-02-2011, 08:35 AM
Actually, thats why its such a political tightrope. I wonder how many Pakistani's feel exactly that was as a result?




Whats the general reaction on the ground? I was under the impression Pakistan was pretty split on their feelings about Osama, with the tribal border regions and most rural areas being pretty much being pro-Taliban, while the urban centers are anti. Are people generally happy, unhappy, worried or what in Pakistan right now?

People dont give a flying fuck either way. It would not stop PTT from carrying suicide attacks, Even if it did, it would not stop the wholesale racial profiling of pakhtuns, and even if it did, the political parties are far worse and responsible far too many deaths than both of these. I mean if you look at MQM's or ANP's portfolio, they make Al-Qaeda look like bunny rabbits. There are 'riots' going on RIGHT NOW in Karachi because some political leader was shot. No body ever considered bin laden a savior or messiah or even a leader, regardless of their feelings on America.


Tldr;
The common reaction is, in words of a great American; "Fuck you nigga I got kids to feed".

muddi900
05-02-2011, 08:36 AM
:confused: That's what I said. :confused:

8 years ago.

Serapth
05-02-2011, 08:36 AM
Yeah, I do the same thing. It's not malicious, the names just sound similar.

I'm not over joyed or celebrating, but I'm certainly glad he's dead. I don't mind the lack of a trial either. A trial wouldn't have been any more "just" than just putting a bullet in his head. It would have been nothing more than a show trial. It would have simply put more people in danger and given him a podium from which to preach.

Also, VerseD, I think you underestimate how many of us remember the price that has been paid. I also think your point was more insulting than you intended.

Oh, a trial would have been a very bad thing. It wouldn't satisfying anybody on any side, and would be such a galvanizing event for everybody on all sides.

Voodoo
05-02-2011, 08:39 AM
8 years ago.
Oh I see what you mean. Instead of speaking in riddles why didn't you just come out and say that at the time of the Bush announcement it was also May 2nd in Pakistan? I mean, come on Muddi, you spend time away from the forums but you are still baiting. What's the deal? I think baiting would have been a long since past memory. :D

Orca
05-02-2011, 08:41 AM
I don't recall seeng anyone dragging osama's body through the streets.

You see the crowd outside the White House? You're telling me they wouldn't have?

I'm not really comparing Osama to a Blackhawk pilot, just the macabre celebrating after. Dancing and singing over a death, regardless of how evil the guy was, doesn't seem like something civilized people do - especially after condemning our "barbaric" enemies for doing it.

I'm just saying, the next time something happens and we see video of Iraqis and Afghans celebrating...are we going to remember "they" just saw video of "us" doing the same, and lumping together like that isn't fair but it's the reality of what happens when the enemy gets demonized to the extent the two sides are.

Just seems like the appropriate response was somewhere lower than dancing in the streets like it was a SuperBowl victory. I think Canada's PM called it 'sober satisfaction' which seems about right.

Generation ABXY
05-02-2011, 08:42 AM
I guess Osama bin Laden regrets using his real address on PSN...

It would have been fine if he hadn't used his real birthday. That's how they get you.

Damn it! I certainly didn't expect to have such a silly grin on my face, in a thread like this. :D

Serapth
05-02-2011, 08:44 AM
Holy fuck, a foreigner just acknowledged Stephen Harper's eloquence. That one of the seven seals broken I think.

Superman's Dead
05-02-2011, 08:45 AM
Wait, where did Ox go on holiday?

HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HA

caps

Serapth
05-02-2011, 08:46 AM
So, is the SEAL team eligible for the millions offered in reward? :D

Narradisall
05-02-2011, 08:47 AM
Well, technically only one of them got the headshot. I wonder who that guy is. I imagine they won't ever reveal his name in our lifetimes.

Reverant
05-02-2011, 08:49 AM
So, is the SEAL team eligible for the millions offered in reward? :D

No. Trust me, in the Marines, we wanted to know the exact same thing. Has anyone seen a source that says it was a SEAL team? All I've seen is "joint CIA / Special Forces" operation.

Serapth
05-02-2011, 08:52 AM
You know what the worst part of all this is... there ins't really much of a story. They found him, they shot him, he's dead. Yay world.

Now the problem... the press now have to run with that for god knows how long. How far are they going to reach to keep this story going?

Apparently a woman was killed in the struggle, they can get some serious mileage out of that... a week or two.

The house obviously is good for a couple days, no doubt they are going to run with "how could we not have known" stories for quite a while... and of course if there were blood stains from where the battle took place, they obviously can run that footage for quite a while. Then maybe a few days on tracing prior owners of the home, people that live in the same neighborhood, but then that story dries up.

Probably a few days from some quack that is going to come forward about the body/burial, unless the quack is a high profile Republican, than that one has legs.


After that... really the story is all played out... the media can't have that!

kyrieee
05-02-2011, 08:52 AM
What the hell is that from? :D

It's fake
10chr

Serapth
05-02-2011, 08:53 AM
No. Trust me, in the Marines, we wanted to know the exact same thing. Has anyone seen a source that says it was a SEAL team? All I've seen is "joint CIA / Special Forces" operation.

I saw SEAL 6 mentioned in one of the first stories I read... same group that apparently was involved in the hostage rescue from pirates a month or so back. Don't recall the source and honestly don't really have a clue what the 6 means.

Orca
05-02-2011, 08:54 AM
I'm just glad this has put an end to royal wedding coverage.

Narradisall
05-02-2011, 08:55 AM
I've heard several media outlets reporting it was a group of around 40 Navy Seals that were flown over from Afgan.

Unconfirmed reports also put Charlie Sheen at the head of the team.

http://favoritescene.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/Charlie-Sheen-Navy-Seals.jpg

Sandman
05-02-2011, 08:56 AM
No. Trust me, in the Marines, we wanted to know the exact same thing. Has anyone seen a source that says it was a SEAL team? All I've seen is "joint CIA / Special Forces" operation.

It was Jack Bauer....why else do you think they canceled 24?

National Kato
05-02-2011, 08:56 AM
Has anyone seen a source that says it was a SEAL team? All I've seen is "joint CIA / Special Forces" operation.

Source: (http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/asiapcf/05/02/bin.laden.raid/index.html?hpt=T1)

While senior administration officials would not offer a breakdown of the U.S. mission's composition, a senior defense official said U.S. Navy SEALs were involved.

Source (http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/osama-bin-laden-death-prompts-celebrations-security-alerts/story?id=13507836):

Four helicopters swooped in to the compound and the Navy Seals fought a close quarters gunbattle. They ordered bin Laden to surrender, but the 54-year-old who had vowed he would not be caught alive, refused.

...there's many more, just use Google.

TheFlyingOrc
05-02-2011, 09:00 AM
Well, technically only one of them got the headshot. I wonder who that guy is. I imagine they won't ever reveal his name in our lifetimes.

http://www.sugarslam.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/chuck-norris.jpg

National Kato
05-02-2011, 09:08 AM
http://www.sugarslam.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/chuck-norris.jpg

C'mon, Orc you know better. Norris is Delta Force, not Navy SEAL.

muddi900
05-02-2011, 09:08 AM
Oh I see what you mean. Instead of speaking in riddles why didn't you just come out and say that at the time of the Bush announcement it was also May 2nd in Pakistan? I mean, come on Muddi, you spend time away from the forums but you are still baiting. What's the deal? I think baiting would have been a long since past memory. :D

I was on my phone, goddammit!

VerseD
05-02-2011, 09:08 AM
"Irrelevant?" I'm not a US military intelligence analyst, but whatever one's feelings at this time, "irrelevant" seems like a short-sighted determination.

Not entirely. Bin Laden initially advised and approve of Al Qaeda operations; but in the last five years, since the US started using Predator drones to strike at camps along the Pakistani border, he has disengaged himself from his organization and become something like a figurehead. His death will end the myth of his invincibility, is a blow to prestige, but it will not disrupt Al Qaeda operations. (Don't think, though, that I am not relieved at his death.)

Verse, I honestly don't know what media maelstrom you're paying attention to if you think anyone has forgotten any pound of flesh. Literally every other comment I see is about our soldiers overseas.

I haven't been paying attention to any, really -- only the President's speech, which mentioned the 3000 chairs left empty by 9-11, but not the 1500 who left their blood in Afghan soil. Perhaps I should forgive mankind for latching on to those moments of victory, so ephemeral and rarely worth the price.

Voodoo
05-02-2011, 09:09 AM
I was on my phone, goddammit!
Haha! Goddammit!!! That's epic right there.

bstiff
05-02-2011, 09:11 AM
So, is the SEAL team eligible for the millions offered in reward? :D

Unfortunately no. If it was an entirely civilian/cia team then they do get bonuses. Doubt they would get the whole amount though.

Karak
05-02-2011, 09:38 AM
Not entirely. Bin Laden initially advised and approve of Al Qaeda operations; but in the last five years, since the US started using Predator drones to strike at camps along the Pakistani border, he has disengaged himself from his organization and become something like a figurehead. His death will end the myth of his invincibility, is a blow to prestige, but it will not disrupt Al Qaeda operations. (Don't think, though, that I am not relieved at his death.)



Agreed however, it will impact the massive financial reserves he was piping into the group don't you think?

Serapth
05-02-2011, 09:42 AM
Not entirely. Bin Laden initially advised and approve of Al Qaeda operations; but in the last five years, since the US started using Predator drones to strike at camps along the Pakistani border, he has disengaged himself from his organization and become something like a figurehead. His death will end the myth of his invincibility, is a blow to prestige, but it will not disrupt Al Qaeda operations. (Don't think, though, that I am not relieved at his death.)

Agreed however, it will impact the massive financial reserves he was piping into the group don't you think?

No, his assets were mostly disrupted and most of his sources cut off years ago. He's been a paper tiger for years.

National Kato
05-02-2011, 09:53 AM
DNA testing complete. (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/42859420/ns/world_news-death_of_bin_laden/) Officials state 99.9% certainty body is bin Laden's.

The U.S. is believed to have collected DNA samples from bin Laden family members in the years since the 9/11 attacks that triggered the U.S.-led invasion of Afghanistan. It was unclear whether the U.S. also had fingerprints or some other means to identify the body on site.

After the firefight that killed Osama bin Laden, the U.S. used "multiple methods" to positively identify his remains, according to a senior Pentagon official who personally saw a photograph of the corpse.

fitbabits
05-02-2011, 09:58 AM
What's interesting to me is where he was discovered - in an area that's abundant in riches and is also home to numerous military installations, a military academy, a church and a movie theater. And the Pakistani government claims it does not harbor terrorists.

Reverant
05-02-2011, 10:16 AM
I mentioned it earlier, but the ISI, Pakistan's premiere intelligence agency, is shady. No less shady than the CIA, and certainly no less involved in questionable activity. For years, there have been many elements within the agency sympathetic to the Taliban and local al-Qaeda offshoots. Like the CIA, the ISI's mission is to protect its sovereign state. They funneled Western and Saudi aid to the mujahedin in the 80s, and they supported the Taliban in the 90s in order to destabilize Afghanistan and prevent them from allying with India.

We routinely drop missiles in areas without Pakistan's permission (and against their requests). These people, particularly the Pashtuns, have deep tribal and familial ties (not to mention clerics that are as radical as our evangelicals). A CIA operative shot two Pakistanis dead just recently, and they are pissed about it.

The ISI is historically shady, and our campaign has given the radicalized elements plenty of reason to stop the US when possible.

Superman's Dead
05-02-2011, 10:20 AM
I haven't been paying attention to any, really -- only the President's speech, which mentioned the 3000 chairs left empty by 9-11, but not the 1500 who left their blood in Afghan soil. Perhaps I should forgive mankind for latching on to those moments of victory, so ephemeral and rarely worth the price.

Well then just so you know, it's being said everywhere else. By everyone. Comedians, pundits, random people on the Facebooks, from all different political backgrounds. No one is forgetting our soldiers.

I think it's a little disingenuous to wax poetic about the follies of mankind when the super right wing guys from my college town and big city feminists are all saying the same things.

Edit: I also think it was a political move for the president not to talk about the war. Let everyone else bring it up and have it quickly fall into partisan debate (oh hi, thread!), but let the initial announcement be very clear and simple.

Serapth
05-02-2011, 10:21 AM
More so, I don't think the chain of command is nearly as firmly entrenched there as it is here. In a place were the head of ISI, or various Armed Forces branches could essentially topple the government, and within each of these organizations you have people of heavily factionalized loyalties, I don't think they are anywhere near as coordinated as most governments.

Ink Asylum
05-02-2011, 10:42 AM
http://s3.amazonaws.com/twitpic/photos/large/289494384.jpg?AWSAccessKeyId=AKIAJF3XCCKACR3QDMOA&Expires=1304355403&Signature=0UdVEojqrDKnuFMD0luK%2B6R4snM%3D

Serapth
05-02-2011, 10:49 AM
God, has it really been almost 10 years? Shit. Its like when I used to have the conversation "In the year 2000 I'll be BLAH BLAH years old!", then the year 2000 came and went and I woke up one day and did a keanu reeves style "WHOA!".

Fuck im old.

Ink Asylum
05-02-2011, 10:51 AM
The anniversary of 9/11 this year will probably be a bit different.

Serapth
05-02-2011, 11:31 AM
Oh yay!

Marine Bio/chem Warfare Unit Recalled as Intel Warns of Possible Revenge Attacks (http://abcnews.go.com/US/osama-bin-laden-triggers-security-alert-recall-elite/story?id=13505844)

Karak
05-02-2011, 11:33 AM
No, his assets were mostly disrupted and most of his sources cut off years ago. He's been a paper tiger for years.

Oh gotcha.
Doesn't impact my happiness at his headshot.
EDIT: Wait. In the news sources its saying he was still supplying large amount of funds and his couriers (two brothers) that were tracked by various means and what they were moving were documents including financial information. So...sounds like he was supplying money still.

VerseD
05-02-2011, 12:09 PM
Well then just so you know, it's being said everywhere else. By everyone. Comedians, pundits, random people on the Facebooks, from all different political backgrounds. No one is forgetting our soldiers.

I think it's a little disingenuous to wax poetic about the follies of mankind when the super right wing guys from my college town and big city feminists are all saying the same things.

Most people I know fall between those high, thoughtful, and politically aware ends of the spectrum: for them, the death of Bin Laden is a cause for relief, perhaps concern over future attacks, and perhaps the kind of jubilation that motivated a flash-mob in front of the White House (or the jokes in most of this thread). I think that, for the most common person, this will not prompt the kind of reflection that it should. Rather, the villain is dead -- hurrah!

Maybe my view of people is more skeptical than yours. If that's the case, then forgive me a little poetry, because it's the least bitter way I have of dealing with pity.

National Kato
05-02-2011, 12:10 PM
Obama had several options (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/05/02/obama-had-multiple-option_n_856280.html), including stealth bomber runs on the compound. The SEAL training took place at Bagram in April, with a replica of the target compound.

TheKeck
05-02-2011, 12:24 PM
I wish somebody had given CNN an Atlas. Or Google Maps. Abbotabad is outside Islamabad like Mexico City is outside Houston.

Your statements intrigued me.

Apparently 72 miles is comparable to 941 miles these days. :p


http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&source=s_d&saddr=Islamabad&daddr=Abbott%C4%81bad,+Pakistan&hl=en&geocode=FYd_AgIdw9BaBCkvcpF40L_fODG2Ats7XFFZYA%3BF WsJCQIdhTFdBCkXxXpVETHeODEslS6xNaZZbg&mra=ls&sll=34.146667,73.216389&sspn=0.147466,0.240326&g=Abbottabad&ie=UTF8&ll=33.938803,72.844849&spn=1.182597,1.922607&t=h&z=9

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&source=s_d&saddr=Houston&daddr=Mexico+City&hl=en&geocode=FUQlxgEd6pFQ-ikBhY1ItLhAhjE7BWXz3gINyg%3BFepuKAEd7W4X-ikHdQnbJgDOhTFB6F4mdhAGVA&mra=ls&sll=33.938803,72.844849&sspn=1.182597,1.922607&ie=UTF8&t=h&z=6

TheFlyingOrc
05-02-2011, 12:27 PM
Obama had several options (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/05/02/obama-had-multiple-option_n_856280.html), including stealth bomber runs on the compound. The SEAL training took place at Bagram in April, with a replica of the target compound.

So, the best trained soldiers we've got, and we built them a replica compound to storm? Dude never stood a chance.

muddi900
05-02-2011, 12:32 PM
TheRock Obama sketches don't look so lame now. (http://www.avclub.com/articles/dwayne-johnson-knew-bin-laden-was-dead-before-you,55375/?utm_medium=RSS&utm_campaign=feeds&utm_source=avclub_rss_daily)

So, is the SEAL team eligible for the millions offered in reward? :D

The money was used to buy off the Pakistani authorities. After the last time (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_war_in_Afghanistan), they demand to be paid upfront. :D

National Kato
05-02-2011, 12:32 PM
So, the best trained soldiers we've got, and we built them a replica compound to storm? Dude never stood a chance.

For real. Think about how simultaneously awesome and stressful it was to be one of the SEAL team, practicing for almost a month to assassinate Osama bin Laden. How do you sleep at night? :D

National Kato
05-02-2011, 12:35 PM
Live press briefing right now (http://www.whitehouse.gov/live/briefing-press-secretary-jay-carney-and-members-president-s-national-security-team), with lots of details being given.

muddi900
05-02-2011, 12:38 PM
Your statements intrigued me.

Apparently 72 miles is comparable to 941 miles these days. :p


http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&source=s_d&saddr=Islamabad&daddr=Abbott%C4%81bad,+Pakistan&hl=en&geocode=FYd_AgIdw9BaBCkvcpF40L_fODG2Ats7XFFZYA%3BF WsJCQIdhTFdBCkXxXpVETHeODEslS6xNaZZbg&mra=ls&sll=34.146667,73.216389&sspn=0.147466,0.240326&g=Abbottabad&ie=UTF8&ll=33.938803,72.844849&spn=1.182597,1.922607&t=h&z=9

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&source=s_d&saddr=Houston&daddr=Mexico+City&hl=en&geocode=FUQlxgEd6pFQ-ikBhY1ItLhAhjE7BWXz3gINyg%3BFepuKAEd7W4X-ikHdQnbJgDOhTFB6F4mdhAGVA&mra=ls&sll=33.938803,72.844849&sspn=1.182597,1.922607&ie=UTF8&t=h&z=6

Well I almost said Dallas Fort Worth. Regardless, proportionally speaking and due to the quality of the roads, I stick by statement.

Narradisall
05-02-2011, 12:39 PM
Live press briefing right now (http://www.whitehouse.gov/live/briefing-press-secretary-jay-carney-and-members-president-s-national-security-team), with lots of details being given.

To sum it up.

http://media.skateboard.com.au/forum/images/BoomHeadShot3.gif

Serapth
05-02-2011, 12:46 PM
Oh gotcha.
Doesn't impact my happiness at his headshot.
EDIT: Wait. In the news sources its saying he was still supplying large amount of funds and his couriers (two brothers) that were tracked by various means and what they were moving were documents including financial information. So...sounds like he was supplying money still.




"Large sums" is an exceedingly relative term, especially in the sensationalist media.

Karak
05-02-2011, 12:57 PM
"Large sums" is an exceedingly relative term, especially in the sensationalist media.

So is "papertiger"

That's why the fact that if it was 10 bucks it was more than than enough.

However, large sums goes against "no sums" that was bandied about before and for a family labeled as having millions of dollars, perhaps billions, before he was even Terrorist #1 it stands to any reasonable guess that large sums is indeed well...large. And though we could pretend that it was 15 bucks a month to pay for coffee and salad dressing that would be exceedingly stupid. But then again maybe that is what the couriers were doing. Risking their lives for Foldgers and 1000 Island...nonfat of course.

So again, not the normal random guy with no connections and no finances which is what was being pretended before.

Zero
05-02-2011, 01:00 PM
For real. Think about how simultaneously awesome and stressful it was to be one of the SEAL team, practicing for almost a month to assassinate Osama bin Laden. How do you sleep at night? :D

They may not have even told until a few days ago. They were probably told it was a high value asset. I doubt a SEAL would say "Eh, if it ain't Bin Laden, I ain't doin' it."

Karak
05-02-2011, 01:16 PM
They may not have even told until a few days ago. They were probably told it was a high value asset. I doubt a SEAL would say "Eh, if it ain't Bin Laden, I ain't doin' it."

That is correct. Though it is hard to tell, some of the behind the scenes of the Seals videos a couple interviewed Seals who talk about past missions have even said "And as we were flying out in 3 hours they told us who we were going after"

Close to the motherfucking vest on this one I bet.

bstiff
05-02-2011, 01:22 PM
What's interesting to me is where he was discovered - in an area that's abundant in riches and is also home to numerous military installations, a military academy, a church and a movie theater. And the Pakistani government claims it does not harbor terrorists.

But.. they claim there didn't know where he was. Given the distance involved and living situation, that like the white house saying they don't know where Obama is when he's staying at the Inner Harbor Hilton in Baltimore.

Crittias
05-02-2011, 01:23 PM
The SEAL training took place at Bagram in April, with a replica of the target compound.Ocean's 14 plotline?

bstiff
05-02-2011, 01:25 PM
For real. Think about how simultaneously awesome and stressful it was to be one of the SEAL team, practicing for almost a month to assassinate Osama bin Laden. How do you sleep at night? :D

Given the sensitivity of things, they probably didn't know who it was until just before they were getting on the choppers. They were most likely practicing on mock ups of multiple installations in the last few months, this one being one of them. I think even the densest person would probably see something was up when they keep repeating the same exercise over and over for the last 4-6 weeks.

National Kato
05-02-2011, 01:48 PM
This man's (http://moseslakegrantcounty.kxly.com/news/community-spirit/bin-laden-caught-ephrata-teacher-shaves-beard/45478) greatest day?

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f27/NationalKato/beard_001.png

Vigil80
05-02-2011, 02:06 PM
Just looking at the picture, I thought he was an impersonator or something.

Purple Santa
05-02-2011, 02:20 PM
Wait, where did Ox go on holiday?

Doing a Navy SEALs job obviously.

Narradisall
05-02-2011, 02:30 PM
A Royal Wedding and Osama Bin Ladens death, if Carlsberg did Bank Holidays.....

Zecon
05-02-2011, 03:45 PM
I wasn't really surprised at my coworkers reactions today.
"I'm glad he's dead and all, but I don't want that n****r reelected because of it."

Karak
05-02-2011, 03:58 PM
I wasn't really surprised at my coworkers reactions today.
"I'm glad he's dead and all, but I don't want that n****r reelected because of it."

Holy shit.
I am non-pc and all but damn...that is...about 50 years ago kind of language right there. DAMN!

Hotcod
05-02-2011, 04:08 PM
"I mourn the loss of thousands of precious lives, but I will not rejoice in the death of one, not even an enemy." - Martin Luther King, Jr

A pretty perfect quote to send the day with I think.

Hotcod
05-02-2011, 05:32 PM
Glad I could help. The truth is that it's perfect quote that I wish more people where listening to today.

Lekon
05-02-2011, 05:48 PM
Just a lil more comedy:

http://i.imgur.com/cKUO7.jpg

Zecon
05-02-2011, 06:02 PM
Holy shit.
I am non-pc and all but damn...that is...about 50 years ago kind of language right there. DAMN!

Yeah, the texts they were passing around a few weeks ago about not reNIGGing in 2012 were a hoot.

National Kato
05-02-2011, 08:41 PM
A picture tells a thousand words (http://www.flickr.com/photos/whitehouse/5680724572/sizes/z/in/photostream/).

Note: the paper under the pixelated one is an aerial photo of bin Laden's compound. Clinton's book reads:

TOP SECRET CODEWORD NOFORN*
FOR USE IN WHITEHOUSE SITUATION ROOM ONLY

*No Foreign Nationals

National Kato
05-02-2011, 09:01 PM
Given the sensitivity of things, they probably didn't know who it was until just before they were getting on the choppers.

Some evidence (http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/bin-laden-discovered-hiding-in-plain-sight/2011/05/02/AFEljUbF_story_2.html) to show they might've known days before the op:

The Navy SEAL commandos picked for the mission had trained for weeks, practicing daily at a such a precise replica of the compound that they came to know every wall and external feature, as well as where every occupant was likely to be found. The rehearsals also covered a range of scenarios, including the possibility that bin Laden would try to surrender. So the SEAL team members practiced how to take him prisoner, according a military official briefed on the plan. Using Arabic commands, the insertion team would offer bin Laden a chance to give up, and would fire only if he resisted.


“As much as they may have wanted to see him dead, they were ready to offer him a chance to give up,” said the official, who agreed to speak about the mission on the condition of anonymity.

J Arcane
05-02-2011, 10:16 PM
Funny, I came in here to rhetorically ask, "How long you guys reckon before someone quotes MLK?" Turns out the answer was rhetorical.
Its particularly amusing since the quote everyone's throwing around is apparently fake.

Rogue_hunter
05-02-2011, 11:29 PM
This year has been insane:

http://i.imgur.com/QFqpu.jpg

OUX
05-03-2011, 12:26 AM
I wonder what genius started it. I bet he feels 12 feet and 3 inches tall. (http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2011/05/out-of-osamas-death-a-fake-quotation-is-born/238220/)

"People believe anything they read on the internet if it fits their preconceived notions." -Thomas Jefferson

People get away with it because the people that are fact checking just google it. Like this soap box chick.

Hotcod
05-03-2011, 01:04 AM
Its particularly amusing since the quote everyone's throwing around is apparently fake.

LOL, I threw it up because a friend of mine who I trust on these things did, just presumed she was right. I almost did check the wording of it but through not 'cus I know she not one just to post stuff with out checking.... she's going to be pissed!

The reason it was so perfect seems to simply be that some one made it up to the event :D

Superman's Dead
05-03-2011, 01:53 AM
So a guy I work with had an interesting perspective that I wanted to share with you guys:

He thinks it is the first time my generation, who grew up with 9/11 (I was in 7th grade when it happened), has seen America win. Not even necessarily a military victory, he just thinks this is the first time it was okay for everyone to see America come out on top and not be patriots out of adversity (war/natural disaster/election).

I'm not sure if I agree with him, but I can't think of anything that's as clear cut as this.

muddi900
05-03-2011, 03:17 AM
We have the culprit:

http://i385.photobucket.com/albums/oo299/muddi900/cqtjw.jpg

Reverant
05-03-2011, 04:16 AM
So a guy I work with had an interesting perspective that I wanted to share with you guys:

He thinks it is the first time my generation, who grew up with 9/11 (I was in 7th grade when it happened), has seen America win. Not even necessarily a military victory, he just thinks this is the first time it was okay for everyone to see America come out on top and not be patriots out of adversity (war/natural disaster/election).

I'm not sure if I agree with him, but I can't think of anything that's as clear cut as this.

...win what?

I also thought about reposting that MLK quote myself last night on my Facebook, but because I'm a huge stickler when it comes to sources, I tried googling the quote + "source".

My first several results were from reddit, then twitter, then Facebok. Threw thta shit out of the window immediately. I agree with the sentiment, though.

evilgoodwin
05-03-2011, 04:27 AM
No, I was alive when we won Desert Storm.


....we did win that, right?

KidCactus
05-03-2011, 05:50 AM
http://wearegamers.se/images/vitahuset.jpg

Narradisall
05-03-2011, 06:40 AM
..............and here comes the crazies.....!

The best oens I've seen so far where;

- He's been dead for years, Obama faked the whole thing as part of his re-election bid.

- Osama is still alive, and the US are lying. His whole burial at sea is too 'conveinant'.

and there's plenty more! Oddly enough, I read that the US have pictures of the body (for intel confirmation, plus the mission was broadcast live to Obama). So the evidence is there to disprove the crazies, not that it'll stop the theories.

Narradisall
05-03-2011, 06:44 AM
We have the culprit:



I logged onto FB after reading this thread and found at least one friend quoting this. So I decided to shoot them down.

Hotcod
05-03-2011, 06:55 AM
The "his still alive" stuff is idiotic. Just for a second put your self in Osama's shoes. You are out in a cave somewhere and you hear the US have said they killed you, what would you do?

Me? I'd wait for a news paper with the headline "Osama is dead" and film my self holding it and other undeniable proof that I'm alive and post it all over the web. It would utterly destroy US creditability. If the US where going to risk faking it in the face of that then they would have done it a long time ago...

Also hate this "but Osama wasn't a Muslim so why treat his body in the Islamic way" crap that is going around. What Osama was, or wasn't, is hugely beside the point because fanatics really don't give a crap about the real truth to anything and the US has managed to prescribe to there tradition and laws while not risking his grave site becoming a shrine. Of course the fanatics won't care but it makes it harder for them to use the US actions in this case to radicalise moderates who would have been angry at any mistreatment. One of the best weapons the US has in the fight against these groups is showing they are in a war with political groups with a radical ideology rather than Islam as a whole.

I've simply asked people who are jumping all over this to explain to me how it could have been any differently to the way it was that would have had them convinced that it happened. Any answer they give has been a plan that is provably and logically worse. This is to much of a big deal for the US to play it anything but as straight as they can and honestly if you want conspiratorial crap there's way more shady stuff floating around.

Narradisall
05-03-2011, 07:12 AM
Personally Hotcod, I'd think the US would just release the pictures of his corpse. It won't shut up the hardline nutcases, and will probably piss of the extremists a bit more, but to be honest, is it really going to make either the conspirarcy bunch of the terrorists any more or less of an issue if you do or dont?

It's the middle ground people I see believing this that I'd be concerned for.

*For all we know they could have dumped him from a helicopter into the sea and said it was a nice Islamic funeral. :p

Narradisall
05-03-2011, 07:13 AM
I do think the US will release more detail, but they are trying to trickle it out, so as to not seem like they are celebrating it, but are in fact handling it like a professional operation (which I think they are). More details will come, hopefully it'll be enough to shut up all the stupid theories.

Hotcod
05-03-2011, 07:19 AM
Putting photos out would simply do what it all ways does "OMG FAKE" or "OMG LOOK ALIKE" and wouldn't go down so well with a lot of Muslim people let alone the extremists. You need proof that they where from the date they said they where from ext ext ext... I mean honestly from the sound of it he didn't have much of a face left and the real proof that he is dead has come from the DNA tests but with out a film showing ever second of the sample being taken to it being processed the people who want to think this is fake will find a way to do so. In other words showing photos of his dead body would be simply gratuitous and those images would likely be used in a harmful way by given sections of both sides... and for what? not a lot really.

Any one who actual takes the time to think about it for a little while should come to the conclusion that it wouldn't have been announced if they where not sure and it would have been to much of a risk to fake. Yes it requires trust but unless something deeply shocking happens to come out and can be confirmed the only reasonable course is to accept that he is dead.

The ONLY way that most of these people would accept he was dead was if he was taken alive, brought to the US for trail, found guilty and killed... and even then the nuts would still be going mad.

Narradisall
05-03-2011, 07:23 AM
Oh I agree, it makes perfect sense. The US would not have confirmed it without a series of tests (such as the DNA one they did) to confirm it.

Still..... there IS video! I just imagine if they ever release it, it'd end up on You Tube with a rock song cover and slo-mo angles of each kill... :(

Ink Asylum
05-03-2011, 07:28 AM
I do think the US will release more detail, but they are trying to trickle it out, so as to not seem like they are celebrating it, but are in fact handling it like a professional operation (which I think they are). More details will come, hopefully it'll be enough to shut up all the stupid theories.

Because that sure worked for the Birthers, right? :) Since releasing the long form birth certificate they all just shut up.

The Deathers are the same people, and they won't be silenced by any evidence. Best to just ignore them and let them make fools of themselves.

Serapth
05-03-2011, 07:29 AM
What they should have done is picked an Islamic Cleric who is beyond reproach in the faith, and had him do the funeral ceremonies.

That said, I know fuckall about Islamic funeral customs, and what I do know is from either Law and Order, or CSI.


For the record, is fuckall one word, or two, or hyphenated?

Fuckall, fuck all, or fuck-all.

Serapth
05-03-2011, 07:31 AM
Because that sure worked for the Birthers, right? :) Since releasing the long form birth certificate they all just shut up.

The Deathers are the same people, and they won't be silenced by any evidence. Best to just ignore them and let them make fools of themselves.

Isn't this post incredibly self contradictory? Or am I reading you wrong?


"Evidence, it worked for the birther nutjobs, the deathers are the same and no amount of evidence will work." Is basically how I read you... thus my confusion.

Voodoo
05-03-2011, 07:40 AM
http://wearegamers.se/images/vitahuset.jpg
We wants the redhead!!!

muddi900
05-03-2011, 07:45 AM
How did I not notice that?

Is it ok if I flood this thread with Karen Gillan pics...

Hotcod
05-03-2011, 07:47 AM
How did I not notice that?

Is it ok if I flood this thread with Karen Gillan pics...

...... yes

Reverant
05-03-2011, 07:47 AM
One of the major newspapers described the identification process; they identified him on sight during the raid, shot him, snapped pictures, and sent those images back to analysts for preliminary confirmation. Identifying someone with bits missing isn't easy (nor fun), but apparently they have software the aids in the process. Once they got confirmation it was the right guy, they blew up the malfunctioning helicopter and cleared out before the Pakistanis could form an armed response to the operation. Blood tests confirmed it.

As for the burial, it was conducted on a US Navy ship with an attending chaplain, who may or may not have been a Muslim. Either way, the body was ritually washed and wrapped in white as required. The chaplain conducted the service in English, and a translator was present to do the Arabic. Then it was dropped in the sea from the ship.

Apparently, Islamic law allows for burial at sea under two conditions: first, if a Muslim dies at sea, and second, if a Muslim dies and no one will claim him. The government reported that no country wanted him buried in their soil (I doubt they actually asked), so they dropped him at sea. Additional reasoning is to prevent martyr worship at a shrine.

I'd like to learn more about the woman that was killed during the operation. First I heard she was "used as a human shield by an insurgent", then I heard that Osama "hid" behind his "weeping wife." The President said no innocents were killed, so what exactly was she? A victim or a combatant?

Voodoo
05-03-2011, 07:48 AM
How did I not notice that?

Is it ok if I flood this thread with Karen Gillan pics...
I'd like to know who those two are in the back. They seem extremely out of place... :eek:

EDIT - HAHA! Ok it has been edited. Here is the original - http://www.buzzfeed.com/provincialelitist/obama-watching-osama-die - That is Dr Who and Karen Gillan in the edited picture. Funny stuff. :)

Ink Asylum
05-03-2011, 07:53 AM
Isn't this post incredibly self contradictory? Or am I reading you wrong?


"Evidence, it worked for the birther nutjobs, the deathers are the same and no amount of evidence will work." Is basically how I read you... thus my confusion.

You're missing the massive sarcasm in the first paragraph and the seriousness of the second. My fault, should've used Plum.

KidCactus
05-03-2011, 08:18 AM
I'd like to know who those two are in the back. They seem extremely out of place... :eek:

EDIT - HAHA! Ok it has been edited. Here is the original - http://www.buzzfeed.com/provincialelitist/obama-watching-osama-die - That is Dr Who and Karen Gillan in the edited picture. Funny stuff. :)

Yes, edited with the latest Doctor Who episode in mind. ;)

Superman's Dead
05-03-2011, 08:27 AM
...win what?


A victory, any victory. Something America did that brings everyone as a country together, instead of just by party lines or by something horrible happening.

Psykoboy2
05-03-2011, 08:27 AM
The white house plans to release at least one photo of a dead bin laden - so says Drudge.

Karak
05-03-2011, 08:32 AM
The ONLY way that most of these people would accept he was dead was if he was taken alive, brought to the US for trail, found guilty and killed... and even then the nuts would still be going mad.

I have to agree sir. I also don't need pics and the freaky conspiracy "experts" will always find a way to make themselves and situations more shady than they really are. Done with it. He is dead, wipe hands move on.

Karak
05-03-2011, 08:33 AM
The white house plans to release at least one photo of a dead bin laden - so says Drudge.

God no...how fucking stupid. IMHO of course.

Superman's Dead
05-03-2011, 08:41 AM
God no...how fucking stupid. IMHO of course.

I agree.

Most people have their private 'theories' they trust so much more than the official story, but I don't think a lot of people have taken the time to think about how damaging releasing pictures like that could be. To our country, to our international image, all of it.

Karak
05-03-2011, 08:48 AM
I agree.

Most people have their private 'theories' they trust so much more than the official story, but I don't think a lot of people have taken the time to think about how damaging releasing pictures like that could be. To our country, to our international image, all of it.

Thanks. You explained better what my "THIS IS FUCKING DUMB" early morning post was trying to get across.

You complete me:)

VerseD
05-03-2011, 08:57 AM
The "his still alive" stuff is idiotic. Just for a second put your self in Osama's shoes. You are out in a cave somewhere and you hear the US have said they killed you, what would you do?

Maybe that's the plan: get Osama to resurface by saying he's dead. Shit, did I just spoil it!

CES
05-03-2011, 08:59 AM
I agree.

Most people have their private 'theories' they trust so much more than the official story, but I don't think a lot of people have taken the time to think about how damaging releasing pictures like that could be. To our country, to our international image, all of it.

They did it for the two Hussein sons and nobody cried foul over it. As for it damaging the US image, the people who would get pissy about it aren't going to be fans of the country in the first place so fuck them and fuck catering to them. The rest of the world will just shrug it off and carry on.

Hotcod
05-03-2011, 09:08 AM
They did it for the two Hussein sons and nobody cried foul over it. As for it damaging the US image, the people who would get pissy about it aren't going to be fans of the country in the first place so fuck them and fuck catering to them. The rest of the world will just shrug it off and carry on.

Different situation. The US was looking to show the Iraqi people (not there own) that US where liberating them and removing the people in charge who has abuse them. Given a lot of people they where trying to persuade had legitimate reasons for mistrusting the US's word (unlike most of the US in this case) they thought they had to do everything they could. Personally for the same reasons as listed above I thought it was a mistake then (it's where my "it fake" "it's a look alike" comments above where based) but it at lest had an actual point to it unlike this.

Karak
05-03-2011, 09:09 AM
They did it for the two Hussein sons and nobody cried foul over it. As for it damaging the US image, the people who would get pissy about it aren't going to be fans of the country in the first place so fuck them and fuck catering to them. The rest of the world will just shrug it off and carry on.

If by nobody you mean the entire international community and half the middle east. Sure you are right. If you mean in some way that nobody truly means nobody...well that's wrong. Sure some were ok with it, but many were not.

Personally I say fuck catering to anyone including the tinfoil hat society demanding pics of everything like its Paris Hilton's pussy shots.

National Kato
05-03-2011, 09:21 AM
Maybe that's the plan: get Osama to resurface by saying he's dead. Shit, did I just spoil it!

I'm more concerned about the threat of Osama Fin Laden (http://www.colbertnation.com/the-colbert-report-videos/383355/may-02-2011/carefree-pre-9-11-world).

Voodoo
05-03-2011, 09:21 AM
I can't think of a high profile killing like this which did not have a(several) photo(s) release(d).

Narradisall
05-03-2011, 10:44 AM
I can't think of a high profile killing like this which did not have a(several) photo(s) release(d).

Yeah, me too. It would seem odd for them NOT to release them at some point. Not posting them out going "Gotcha bitch!" but doing it as part of the confirmation process of showing that what they are claiming is true, well seems like the act of a responsible, open government. Going "You'll just have to believe us on this" is more worrying as where do you stop?

Not questioning a government and believing everything they tell you is more worrying to me than releasing the picture, as said before, it won't change the deathers or the extremist, and I honestly don't recall any massive outcry here when pictures of his dead sons and Saddam were released?!?

Anyway, enough serious bzness, bring on the hot Karen Gillan pictures!

- Edit - Only outcrying I can find about Saddam was that he was handed the death penalty, and the way the execution was handled. Zip about the confirmations of his death.

fitbabits
05-03-2011, 10:45 AM
Bin Laden's body was flown to the USS Carl Vinson in the North Arabian sea, a senior defense official said. There, aboard a U.S. warship, officials conducted a traditional Islamic burial ritual. Bin Laden's body was washed and placed in a white sheet. He was placed in a weighted bag that, after religious remarks by a military officer, was slipped into the sea about 2 a.m. EDT Monday.

Karak
05-03-2011, 11:00 AM
- Edit - Only outcrying I can find about Saddam was that he was handed the death penalty, and the way the execution was handled. Zip about the confirmations of his death.

Ya don't know about that one. We were talking about his sons and with a bit of translation help and google you can see plenty of hitback concerning Uday in particular.

Serapth
05-03-2011, 11:04 AM
Ya don't know about that one. We were talking about his sons and with a bit of translation help and google you can see plenty of hitback concerning Uday in particular.

There was a pretty big outcry over that though. I think there was an investigation against papers in Canada for printing those photos.

Karak
05-03-2011, 11:06 AM
There was a pretty big outcry over that though. I think there was an investigation against papers in Canada for printing those photos.

Yup there was.

resikel
05-03-2011, 11:42 AM
The White House should just re-air this...

http://thechive.files.wordpress.com/2011/05/tumblr_lkjuqcuxir1qfymwro1_500.gif?w=500&h=281

Kelegacy
05-03-2011, 12:08 PM
This is satisfying compared to something like the death of Hitler. If Osama had killed himself I would feel robbed. I for one am elated at the death of the villain. I love antagonist deaths in my books, movies and games as well. The war will still rage on, but it does feel good.

I was coming back from class my junior year in college when a hallmate yelled, "the pentagon has been attacked!" I turned on the news and caught up on everything. A scary time, so when I saw he news yesterday morning I was jubilant.

Khrymsyn
05-03-2011, 12:22 PM
I'd be happier if the news of his death was accompanied by news of us pulling troops back home that the "job's done".

I dunno. Guess I'm just tired of us having our tendrils all over the world, hemmoraging money to keep these "peacekeeping" missions up, while at home we're bankrupt and the government seems to do more partisan pandering and bickering.
Probably just small minded thinking on my part. =/

resikel
05-03-2011, 01:13 PM
"President Bush had 2,686 days to catch Osama bin Laden. President Obama got that job done in 831 days," said Lawrence O'Donnell.

I LOLed.

TheFlyingOrc
05-03-2011, 01:28 PM
"President Bush had 2,686 days to catch Osama bin Laden. President Obama got that job done in 831 days," said Lawrence O'Donnell.

I LOLed.

*sigh*

Well, I guess if he's going to be unfairly blamed for the economy doing poorly, it's just as good that he should be unfairly credited for getting Bin Laden.

Seriously, though. Somebody dropped a folder on his desk that said "We think we're going to get Bin Laden, sign here if you want us to do our good plan." Then he signed it. Any president not named Osama Bin Laden would have done the same thing.

Ink Asylum
05-03-2011, 01:33 PM
*sigh*

Well, I guess if he's going to be unfairly blamed for the economy doing poorly, it's just as good that he should be unfairly credited for getting Bin Laden.

Seriously, though. Somebody dropped a folder on his desk that said "We think we're going to get Bin Laden, sign here if you want us to do our good plan." Then he signed it. Any president not named Osama Bin Laden would have done the same thing.

Plenty of people may be overselling Obama's involvement but you're drastically underselling it. I'm sure he made far more decisions and was deeper involved then just at the very very end.

TheFlyingOrc
05-03-2011, 01:37 PM
Plenty of people may be overselling Obama's involvement but you're drastically underselling it. I'm sure he made far more decisions and was deeper involved then just at the very very end.

I'll admit I was hyperbolic. However, the specific decisions and intelligence gathering were probably almost entirely just military experts saying "sound good?" I don't WANT my president to have more involvement than that in strategy and intelligence gathering.

W probably authorized many similarly promising (until the late stages) intelligence operations. I think I can safely say not a single "idea" that led to Bin Laden's takedown came from the brain of Obama.

National Kato
05-03-2011, 01:39 PM
Seriously, though. Somebody dropped a folder on his desk that said "We think we're going to get Bin Laden, sign here if you want us to do our good plan." Then he signed it.

I'm not one of the people who credits Obama alone with this accomplishment - there are too many intelligence layers that have been working on this since 2001 - but it wasn't as simple as you propose, Orc. Obama has been working with his intelligence staff since August on the lead, working together with his staff on options as recent as a few weeks ago, and was against bombing and other munitions-based approaches and in favor of a ground team.

It was more than just signing a folder dropped on his desk. He was in on the details of the plan since its inception. At least give him that credit.

resikel
05-03-2011, 01:46 PM
*sigh*

Well, I guess if he's going to be unfairly blamed for the economy doing poorly, it's just as good that he should be unfairly credited for getting Bin Laden.

Seriously, though. Somebody dropped a folder on his desk that said "We think we're going to get Bin Laden, sign here if you want us to do our good plan." Then he signed it. Any president not named Osama Bin Laden would have done the same thing.

I don't quite remember it in details, but didn't "somebody dropped a folder on his (President Clinton) desk that said, "We think Bin Laden is dangerous". I vaguely remember a documentary after 9/11 about when Bin Laden was assessed and that we had an opportunity to take him out. That was before 9/11.

I only posted the quote (with no other context) because, well, it made me LOLed.

Ink Asylum
05-03-2011, 01:50 PM
I'll admit I was hyperbolic. However, the specific decisions and intelligence gathering were probably almost entirely just military experts saying "sound good?" I don't WANT my president to have more involvement than that in strategy and intelligence gathering.

W probably authorized many similarly promising (until the late stages) intelligence operations. I think I can safely say not a single "idea" that led to Bin Laden's takedown came from the brain of Obama.

Obama also didn't come up with the nuts and bolts of the Health Care bill, either. That's not what an executive does. What I'm sure he did do was approve or disapprove a lot of the ideas throughout the entire process that led to this final result. He sets goals, steers focus, picks the people who do have the more technical and strategic skills, manages the highest levels of staff etc.

The man at the top definitely matters. Maybe Bush would have made the same decisions Obama did that allowed this to happen, but he made a lot of bad decisions so I'm doubtful. I know who wouldn't have made the same decisions: McCain. He explicitly said during the debates that he wouldn't make strikes in Pakistan against terrorist targets. Obama said he would, and he did.

evilgoodwin
05-03-2011, 01:57 PM
My new plan is to just repeat "You're an idiot." over and over again to anybody that says it's not his body OR that the birth certificate is fake.

It's the only way they'll learn. Or they'll wander off.

TheFlyingOrc
05-03-2011, 02:00 PM
My new plan is to just repeat "You're an idiot." over and over again to anybody that says it's not his body OR that the birth certificate is fake.

It's the only way they'll learn. Or they'll wander off.

Think about it this way - have you ever seen Obama and Osama in the same place at the same time?

Widgetcraft
05-03-2011, 02:01 PM
They did it for the two Hussein sons and nobody cried foul over it. As for it damaging the US image, the people who would get pissy about it aren't going to be fans of the country in the first place so fuck them and fuck catering to them. The rest of the world will just shrug it off and carry on.

I could be completely wrong here, but I'm thinking those pictures weren't officially sanctioned by the U.S. government.

evilgoodwin
05-03-2011, 02:11 PM
Think about it this way - have you ever seen Obama and Osama in the same place at the same time?

Does one of them wear glasses? That might throw me off, too.

Vigil80
05-03-2011, 02:21 PM
I'll admit I was hyperbolic. However, the specific decisions and intelligence gathering were probably almost entirely just military experts saying "sound good?" I don't WANT my president to have more involvement than that in strategy and intelligence gathering.

W probably authorized many similarly promising (until the late stages) intelligence operations. I think I can safely say not a single "idea" that led to Bin Laden's takedown came from the brain of Obama.
I'm with you. The president is a swell fellow for giving the go ahead. But despite the cute images circulating on the internet, the heroes, the ones who "got 'im," are the intelligence agents and the Navy SEALs.