The Pen n Paper den! What you playing?

[Virtual Machine]

Old school dork/Pen n paper guy here. Been running a few sessions lately, and starting up some more very very soon:

My main group plays every Sunday (small core group of 3 people at present), we're typically back and forth between Fantasy and sci-fi settings from week to week right now i'm running:

Conan (d20 - Mongoose Publishing) - Three players, a Cimmerian Barbarian (of course!), a Hyrkanian Nomad, and a Kushite Witch-man. They're a motley crew to be certain, but we've been having a blast. The campaign started in the desert wilds of Eastern Shem before moving westward into Zingara (kind of a medieval/Victorian Spain). The overall plot was adapted from "The Good, The Bad, and the Ugly" - which works amazingly well in this particular setting. An Argossean General has learned of a fortune in gold somewhere in the Barachan Isles, called "The Golden Throne" because it's essentially enough wealth to buy a Kingdom. He's taken those soldiers loyal to him and gone in search. Unfortunately, Argos and Zingara are currently caught up in a pretty hefty boarder conflict. The players happened upon a man being pursued by the general's soldiers, and managed to save him, though he was mortally wounded. Before dying, the man passed on a name. what the players don't know, is the name marks the grave on the Barachs that leads to the loot.

This is the first campaign of Conan i've run, and thus far it's been amazing. Howard's Hyborian age is a fantastic setting, with choices for characters completely atypical of your usual fantasy campaign. The changes Mongoose has made to the D20 system are fantastic - making Armor and combat MUCH more fun.

On every "other" week it's been:

Shadowrun 4th Edition - I don't even know who publishes this shit any more. I'm an old school Shadowrun player (ran my first game in 1990), and this is my first time with 4th Edition. The campaign is kinda wandering around London/Tir Na Nog right now, but there's been some good stuff. High point so far has been a Ghoul's lair in the middle of nowhere built out of an old army installation where the players had to fight a tricked out off road vehicle in a thunderdome-style arena while thousands of Ghouls cheered em on. I've got a German Orc, a Human Gunslinger Adept, a Dwarven something or other, and an Elven Hermatic mage.

Really digging on the new game system introduced in fourth, it's a bit more math heavy, but makes a lot more sense than the old system (which basically remained unchanged since 2nd edition in 1992).

I've got a second group starting up that looks like it will be alternating between A Game of thrones (D20) and Call of Cthulhu. So i'll have my more "pulp-y" sunday night group, and my more intellectual Wednesday night group. fun times.

Anyone else into anything regular other than vanilla DnD?

[Nameless]

Wow, that Conan campaign sounds really interesting. I hope to read some of REH's stuff and run a Conan adventure/campaign one day, it seems like a fantastic setting! What are the big rules changes that you're so fond of?

As for other games, I've played a bit of Mutants & Masterminds, which was pretty fun, totally worth checking out. It's a great superhero RPG system, that is full of options, but far less complex than games like GURPS or HERO. The M&M game is pretty sporadic, though, we've only had one session so far (though it was a blast!). I've got this ex-black ops guy, who developed pyrokinesis, and was experimented on by the military. My idea when creating him: Solid Snake meets Firestarter (and slightly more obscure, he's also inspired by a character from the X-Files episode 'Fire').

Have you seen any of Paizo's Pathfinder setting? It's pretty sweet, I've been enjoying a lot of their products. They primarily make adventure paths (groups of linked adventures creating a single overarching story) to be used with D&D, but next year, they'll be releasing their very own Pathfinder RPG, which will be sort of a spiritual successor to D&D for those who were not so into 4th Edition. Their website is here (www.paizo.com). I picked up their Campaign Setting Hardcover last month and I'm still reading it, there is just so much cool info.

I've also picked up Call of Cthulhu and Mongoose's Traveller, but haven't had much time to run anything with them yet.

[Virtual Machine]

With regards to Conan, armor and combat feats have been modified heavily. Instead of 3E feats like cleave, every character has access to a list of combat maneuvers, as long as they meet the prerequisites for that maneuver. Armor class is gone. Instead all races (no humanoids, only human types) have a base 10 defense value to both Parry and dodge. Str bonus is added to Parry, Dex bonus is added to dodge.

Armor now has a Damage Reduction (DR) rating which basically works exactly like the creature ability in the monsters manual. Someone hits for 5 dmg, the armor reduces equal to it's DR rating. If damage scores above what a character has in DR, it all gets through. Some weapons also have an Armor Piercing score which subtracts from the DR of any armor. Any attacker can also choose to finesse attack with a weapon that supports it, which bypasses any armor DR altogether and uses Dex instead of Str for it's attack bonus (as per the 3E feat). It's a pretty awesome (and potentially brutal) system that actually drastically increases the value of good armor - which in the world of Conan is actually pretty rare anyway. Hide, Leather, Chain and Scale are the common types.

The emphasis has also been taken off of "squares", and attacks of opportunity have been greatly simplified to rely on common sense, which is pretty much what i've always done with 3E anyway.

I love this game.

If you're thinking about readig up on the setting, track down the Dark Horse trade paperbacks - they're adapted from Howard's stories with gaps filled in, and give you a really good idea of the look and feel of Howard's Hyboria. The funcom guys cocked up magic royally in Age of Conan.

[TheKeck]

Well, it's not quite really pen n paper, but I'm in four 3.5e and two 4e games of DnD over at dndonlinegames.com. There are several of our ranks with me, most especially, Clark.

[Superman's Dead]

I'm playing the online game with Keck, Clark, and Co...I have a few friends who just sit around coming up with weird-ass characters for D&D, and pouring through books for some strange template is pretty enjoyable no matter what the system.

I've always ALWAYS wanted to play Changeling the Dreaming. Any tabletop world of darkness, really, but it's so hard to find a group that isn't just gonna stop.

Same thing with Star Wars d20. Glorious glorious options for space combat...

[Blue]

I actually just started (last Wednesday was the first game) a D&D campaign. I have a few friends who live on the west coast so we're using openRPG to run the game online and thus far it's been fantastic. I prefer playing online to an extent as it enables a bit more roleplaying with the characters. People just seem less...embarrassed, maybe, when behind a screen rather than playing live.

I think the last time I actually played anything Pen n Paper was 15 years ago.

[astranoir]

I'm still attempting to finish my run of Horror on the Orient Express (Call of Cthulhu), but people have been moving :( Hopefully, I will also be getting into a Shadowrun game in addition to the D&D game I just joined.

[OrangePulp]

I'm in two 4th ed DnD games, and a Legend of the Five Rings game. L5R is a samurai RPG that's actually quite good. Apparently we've got a Mage: The Awakening game in the pipe (my favorite White Wolf product to date, with perhaps the exception of Demon: The Fallen), which is all planned out and quite excellent (according to my DM).

Also, Blue, if you end up having problems with OpenRPG (like we had), and are looking to an alternative, check out MapTool (http://www.rptools.net/doku.php?id=maptool:intro). It's awesome.

[Virtual Machine]

I'm in two 4th ed DnD games, and a Legend of the Five Rings game. L5R is a samurai RPG that's actually quite good. Apparently we've got a Mage: The Awakening game in the pipe (my favorite White Wolf product to date, with perhaps the exception of Demon: The Fallen), which is all planned out and quite excellent (according to my DM).

Also, Blue, if you end up having problems with OpenRPG (like we had), and are looking to an alternative, check out MapTool (http://www.rptools.net/doku.php?id=maptool:intro). It's awesome.

L5r is a FANTASTIC game system. Played quite a few games of the first edition. One of the best systems i've used. Prefer the old 1st edition book to the 3rd edition version. Less background, more focus on rules, and a much better, more organized layout. The 3E book is just too all over the place, and insanely text heavy (also, about 2/3rds of the book is metagame stuff).

[Karak]

Fading Suns: Basically Dune with Magic, World of Darkness rules and unlimited playing. And we mixed in Warhammer 40,000..ya that took almost 1 year to mix the fictions but man. Its amazing.

Warhammer Roleplay. It's warhammer and nothing grittier can be imagined.

Dragonlance. Using 4th edition. We roleplay more than rollplay so it works right now but at some point Tanis Half Elven is going to pull off a jumpkicking slashing twister attack or something and ruin everything

Afterearth. My own game of Fantasy leaking into the current time frame. Good times. Took 6 years to make so far but it's working well.

Myfflyn. The setting for my novel and Karak(my old forum name on EvAv.) On book store shelves soon:)

[Evewalker]

Right now we're just starting up an Unhallowed Metropolis (http://www.eos-press.com/products-unhallowed.html) campaign with a new group, which looks like it's going to be lot of fun. UH takes place in a very discordant steampunk/dieselpunk setting with some wild rules, although it wasn't easy finding players for it. It's a pretty intense game.

Some in our group are also a few weeks into an Iron Kingdoms game that is supposedly going very well. We're planning on adapting it for a large convention game in February.

As for something I want to check out but haven't found a solid group for yet is Godlike. It seems like an absolutely awesome (and unique) system, but it's not for everyone, it seems.

[Karak]

Some in our group are also a few weeks into an Iron Kingdoms game that is supposedly going very well. We're planning on adapting it for a large convention game in February.



You just sent me on a freaking 30 minute goose chase only to find out Iron Kingdoms is canceled..>DAMN

[Heretic Machine]

I'm looking into DragonMech right now. It would be hell to get a group together, but damn... the world is based around cities built into giant fantasy mechs.

[The Doctor]

Right now I'm running D&D4, I posted about it in the I roll 20s thread. It's nothing of particular interest, just doing the WotC published adventures.

I'm a Call of Cthulhu nut. My collection is huge. Like, 50+ books. I wish I got to run it more often, but my friends don't like it. It's too hard for their hack 'n' slash brains.

I picked up copies of Monsters & Other Childish Things and Don't Rest Your Head with plans of running them for one-shots this Halloween. If I can't talk my buddies into CoC that is..

[Karak]

I'm looking into DragonMech right now. It would be hell to get a group together, but damn... the world is based around cities built into giant fantasy mechs.

Hahahah seriously this is creepy So many of you like the same thing as me.
I just now about 34 second ago bought the 4 main book for this.

[Evewalker]

You just sent me on a freaking 30 minute goose chase only to find out Iron Kingdoms is canceled..>DAMN

Where'd you get the impression it was canceled?

It's anything but. (http://www.privateerpress.com/ironkingdoms/default.php) While there hasn't been a significant release since Five Fingers: Port of Deceit last year, IK is still fully supported by Privateer Press in No Quarter Magazine bi-monthly, and a reprint compilation of the Players Guide and World Guide is coming early next year, with new stuff on the way.

It's actually one of the hotter D20 systems out there, right now.

[Heretic Machine]

Hahahah seriously this is creepy So many of you like the same thing as me.
I just now about 34 second ago bought the 4 main book for this.

Awesome :) Tell me how you like it!

[Karak]

Where'd you get the impression it was canceled?

It's anything but. (http://www.privateerpress.com/ironkingdoms/default.php) While there hasn't been a significant release since Five Fingers: Port of Deceit last year, IK is still fully supported by Privateer Press in No Quarter Magazine bi-monthly, and a reprint compilation of the Players Guide and World Guide is coming early next year, with new stuff on the way.

It's actually one of the hotter D20 systems out there, right now.

The two websites I went to to order it in addition to the 2 local distro's all said it's done for now.
Amazon posts it at 134.99 as a collectors canceled item:(

Edit:
I also have to say to all of you how stoked I am that this many fans of this many tabletop and boardgames are here. Sometimes with games getting so detailed, graphics looking so amazing and freeform gameplay like Oblivion and others I always worry that;

Pizza+chips+pop+late hours+dnd will no longer=awesome

[Virtual Machine]

I'm a Call of Cthulhu nut. My collection is huge. Like, 50+ books. I wish I got to run it more often, but my friends don't like it. It's too hard for their hack 'n' slash brains.
.

I ran into that problem with an early 1940's campaign. Was a real drag too, as the premise was awesome, and i was really proud of how i handled the characters. Each player picked their character based solely on a headshot. I had about 12 mixed male and female all actual B&W photos of actors from eras gone by, slightly messed with in photoshop to give them a more gothic look (Greta Garbo, Carey Grant, Orson Welles, these kinda people). I had a backstory and fully fleshed out character sheet for each character, and a blank one that i handed to the players. At the start of the campaign they all woke up naked with no memory, in the catacombs of a castle in Eastern Europe. They were all in ceremonial robes, and had drunk some kind of inky black tar-like substance. Part of the roof had caved away and killed another figure in the room. From there they had to piece together who they were and how they were related. When one of the guys tried to get dressed into a uniform and the others spotted the Iron Eagle of the Waffen SS tattooed on his arm, everyone lost their shit. It was great! The players were gradually learning things about their characters as the games commenced - but things didn't go as planned. I partially blame myself for letting them go down the combat heavy path.

[astranoir]

I'm a Call of Cthulhu nut. My collection is huge. Like, 50+ books. I wish I got to run it more often, but my friends don't like it. It's too hard for their hack 'n' slash brains.

My local gaming store sees me walk in, and immediately says "No! We never get any more CoC stuff!" :( Sad on two levels because that's not always what I'm looking for.

[Karak]

I get my CoC loving from the board games right now. I find with CoC that the world itself and news and so forth has to be in a certian frame for me to get a good game going and get emotionaly vested.
However, when a good game comes the King in Yellow is not far behind.

[mrnastybutler]

Right now I'm running RPGA DnD just because I needed a break to run something easier. Most of the people in my group are too afraid to pick up the mantle of the DM or ST.
I got done running a Exalted and SW saga game. Both went well. A friend of mine is trying to learn Tri-Stat. I've been teaching it to her. Probably in a few weeks another friend of mine will have completed her game she is writing. It's similar to the WW system but instead of d10s it's all d12's. She wanted a system where they were used for once.

[Evewalker]

The two websites I went to to order it in addition to the 2 local distro's all said it's done for now.
Amazon posts it at 134.99 as a collectors canceled item:(


Yeah, the world guide and the players guide are completely sold out, and aren't being resupplied through distro's until the single book reprint comes out sometime '09.

Don't worry, though, it's not dead. Just a pain in the ass to find right now.

[Karak]

Yeah, the world guide and the players guide are completely sold out, and aren't being resupplied through distro's until the single book reprint comes out sometime '09.

Don't worry, though, it's not dead. Just a pain in the ass to find right now.

...well uhm. I mean AD&D version 1 isn't dead either if you take that into consideration. But their own forums basically state that they won't reprint and at 184.99 or hell 49.99 for a sourcebook...that's pretty much dead to anyone NEW.
I have some good money but not that much:)

Edit:...Single book? Maybe I am reading a different site but they keep talking about never reprinting and not even knowing if they are going to 4th ed?

[Evewalker]

...well uhm. I mean AD&D version 1 isn't dead either if you take that into consideration. But their own forums basically state that they won't reprint and at 184.99 or hell 49.99 for a sourcebook...that's pretty much dead to anyone NEW.
I have some good money but not that much:)

Edit:...Single book? Maybe I am reading a different site but they keep talking about never reprinting and not even knowing if they are going to 4th ed?

I just hit the main thread on it at :http://www.privateerpressforums.com/index.php?showtopic=155561

...and I do see where you are coming from. I've been out of the loop on the IK setting, and late last year they were saying that they would be making it a priority to get a single book reprint out the door by 2009 to get copies into the hands of people who want them.

I had heard about them not switching to 4th Edition, but you are correct in that I can't find any news about the reprint right now either. I think they'll still go through with it eventually, hopefully sooner than later. It's too awesome of a system to let die.

[Karak]

I just hit the main thread on it at :http://www.privateerpressforums.com/index.php?showtopic=155561

...and I do see where you are coming from. I've been out of the loop on the IK setting, and late last year they were saying that they would be making it a priority to get a single book reprint out the door by 2009 to get copies into the hands of people who want them.

I had heard about them not switching to 4th Edition, but you are correct in that I can't find any news about the reprint right now either. I think they'll still go through with it eventually, hopefully sooner than later. It's too awesome of a system to let die.

I used to write for for Dragon/Dungeon and one of the things we always saw were printing charges putting companies out of business VERY quickly if the first couple did not sell through. Which is what IK says in their forum. I hope for a miracle but I wouldn't expect them.

[JRR006]

Finally found some people IRL who play Dungeons & Dragons, and one of 'em invited me to join their ... group? Clan? Coven? What do you call yourselves?

I'm excited. :o

Hopefully they'll be kind as I flounder around while learning to play.

[Nameless]

I used to write for for Dragon/Dungeon and one of the things we always saw were printing charges putting companies out of business VERY quickly if the first couple did not sell through. Which is what IK says in their forum. I hope for a miracle but I wouldn't expect them.

Dude, cool! What Dungeon adventures did you have published? I had a subscription to that mag for a bit!

[alienmastermind]

I play a lot of Mutants and Masterminds, too. I also draw for the supplements. :)

http://adamant.rpgnow.com/product_info.php?cPath=272&products_id=58071

I drew a lot of the pictures in The Villainomicon.

Also, running a 4th edition DnD game, and the players are loving the fact that everyone seems to be effective in their roles 'out of the box'.

[UWCrash]

After PAX myself and three friends decided we wanted to start playing 4ed D&D. One guy is a veteran and the other three (myself included) have played once or twice at most. Nothing has come of it yet other than my roommate and I buying Player's Handbooks, but the veteran was in the UK for 3 weeks. Hopefully we'll find one more to round things out and get started soon...especially now that the weather has changed.

[Karak]

Dude, cool! What Dungeon adventures did you have published? I had a subscription to that mag for a bit!

Actually all mine were mostly DM hints/articles on how to do the job better and so on. In addition I wrote for a couple other smaller local companies and hobby shops and that is where I used most of my experience for actual DM'ing.
Back when you couldn't just get something published on the internet or just blog, it was a fucking AWESOME experience to have something published. I am working on my novel and contract right now and at least that will be published.
I have a sinking feeling in 2-3 years many things will go the way of the Amazon book read.
Sounds cool but it is not as amazing to know your books just an electronic download.

[Nameless]

Actually all mine were mostly DM hints/articles on how to do the job better and so on. In addition I wrote for a couple other smaller local companies and hobby shops and that is where I used most of my experience for actual DM'ing.
Back when you couldn't just get something published on the internet or just blog, it was a fucking AWESOME experience to have something published. I am working on my novel and contract right now and at least that will be published.
I have a sinking feeling in 2-3 years many things will go the way of the Amazon book read.
Sounds cool but it is not as amazing to know your books just an electronic download.

Neat! Just in case you're interested in being published again, Paizo (the company I feel I am almost shilling for) is running an open call to publish a short 6-10 page module starting next week! So if you feel you have what it takes to design RPGs, now's a good time to give it a shot! Here's the link to the competition: Paizo Blog (http://paizo.com/paizo/blog). It's the second blog entry at the time of this post. Good luck, all!

[Midrael]

I'm playing a bit of 4e D&D over at dndonlinegames.com (http://www.dndonlinegames.com) after those Penny Arcade podcasts wound up making it irresistible to finally try it out. :)

I've tried to play earlier versions as well as some GURPS, but the closest I ever came was creating a character for a GURPS game but not actually playing because the group broke up right after.

[Karak]

Neat! Just in case you're interested in being published again, Paizo (the company I feel I am almost shilling for) is running an open call to publish a short 6-10 page module starting next week! So if you feel you have what it takes to design RPGs, now's a good time to give it a shot! Here's the link to the competition: Paizo Blog (http://paizo.com/paizo/blog). It's the second blog entry at the time of this post. Good luck, all!
Thanks man.
Right now I am finishing novel edits. After that I promised a friend to finish the short book I wrote in his honor(him as the main character), after that I have to create a DND game for my local group.
So somewhere in there I will probably show Paizo something.

[Virtual Machine]

From out of nowhere: Getting ready to start up a Heavy Gear campaign. And am very excited.

[Spacetronaut]

I'm hopefully getting into a D&D game on Thursday. I'm psyched, I haven't played a pen and paper rpg since I was like 10. I'm gonna strangle people all over the place.

[Evewalker]

From out of nowhere: Getting ready to start up a Heavy Gear campaign. And am very excited.

Oh, how I love HG. It's nearly impossible to find anyone around this area to play it, though.

Speaking of Dream Pod 9, did anyone ever get into Tribe 8 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tribe_8_(role-playing_game))? We ran it briefly and had some fun with it. Pretty unique setting .

[mrnastybutler]

Has anyone played Jovian from Dream Pod 9? I'm curious to see how that system works. I'm looking for a good system to do a mecha game in and all I can really find is BESM or Exalted so far.

[Cyndair]

I'm part of a DnD 4e group that plays once a month. We've been going strong since June and I've got a Wizard up to level 4. Loving the new system so far.

This is the first time in roughly 10 years that I've played a pen and paper game. So good to be back.

[Virtual Machine]

Has anyone played Jovian from Dream Pod 9? I'm curious to see how that system works. I'm looking for a good system to do a mecha game in and all I can really find is BESM or Exalted so far.

Jovian Chronicles was pretty cool. VERY reminiscent of the space segments of Macross in tone. DP9's Silhouette mechanics are amazingly easy to use, very streamlined, and easy to read. Character damage is handled extremely well, and sensibly, and the whole thing is just unique enough that you don't get that sense of Deja vu with other systems (you can also create characters in about 37 seconds...). The early editions (1st and 2nd Heavy Gear/1st Jovian Chronicles) used a blend of traditional RPG/Tactical miniatures for character and mecha combat - though the rules could be easily adapted if you prefer not to use tactical rules (like my group). Just multiply mecha armor and weapon stats by 10 when they interact with human scale targets.

I haven't seen Jovian Chronicles 2nd edition, but i know it's a more recent book from DP9. They've taken a more DnD-like approach to their games, publishing a single volume Silhouette rulebook and setting books for each of their core games: Tribe 8 (which does look very very cool!), Heavy Gear (3rd Edition), Gear Krieg, Jovian Chronicles (2nd Edition), and Core Command.

[FrozenPokeBalls]

I've got New World of Darkness, Mage the Awakening, Hunter the Reckoning. actually looking to sell some books if anyone is interest. or i'll straight up trade for games.

[Scull]

MY main group flows between Mutants and Masterminds and D&D. We started with AD&D many moons ago, moved to 3/3.5 then on to 4th and now back to 3.5.

[Evewalker]

MY main group flows between Mutants and Masterminds and D&D. We started with AD&D many moons ago, moved to 3/3.5 then on to 4th and now back to 3.5.

Did you move back to 3.5 due to issues with 4th, or is it just a personal preference of the GM?

I ask because around here, I saw 4th take off pretty quickly, and then a lot of people drop back to 3.5

[Karak]

Did you move back to 3.5 due to issues with 4th, or is it just a personal preference of the GM?

I ask because around here, I saw 4th take off pretty quickly, and then a lot of people drop back to 3.5

Don't know about him but we did. The 3 groups we have all went back to 3.5

[Evewalker]

Don't know about him but we did. The 3 groups we have all went back to 3.5

Yeah, that seems to be pretty prevalent. Usually I'm one of the people who doesn't mind adopting new systems (for example, the nWoD from White Wolf), but 4th is just... weird.

I feel like a dick because I can't really even put my finger on why I don't like it as much, since some things really are a bit better (magic system, skills). I don't know. It just feels dumbed down an "extreme!" to me.

[J Arcane]

I've now got every bit of material that's out for Dark Heresy except for Purge the Unclean because I don't buy adventures, I just need to get off my arse and actually prepare a campaign.

I've got a really neat idea for a campaign concept that I just can't quite let go.

[Karak]

Yeah, that seems to be pretty prevalent. Usually I'm one of the people who doesn't mind adopting new systems (for example, the nWoD from White Wolf), but 4th is just... weird.

I feel like a dick because I can't really even put my finger on why I don't like it as much, since some things really are a bit better (magic system, skills). I don't know. It just feels dumbed down an "extreme!" to me.

I feel that it is not only that but that once again they have too much of a boardgame feel and are dangerously close to removing the freeform roleplaying in place of the currently more popular rollplaying.

[Scull]

I was actually gone the day that the group decided to go back to 3.5. I like 4E, I think it has a lot of potential and I was enjoying it. The problem was that I was the only one willing to read the books (and I am not the DM), and everyone around the table kept trying to play it like 3.5. Their single biggest complaint was that combat takes too long.

[Karak]

I was actually gone the day that the group decided to go back to 3.5. I like 4E, I think it has a lot of potential and I was enjoying it. The problem was that I was the only one willing to read the books (and I am not the DM), and everyone around the table kept trying to play it like 3.5. Their single biggest complaint was that combat takes too long.

Weird. I didn't have that issue. We just felt it took the game to a whole new level of ROLLPLAYING which is not the way we wanted to go.

[Scull]

Weird. I didn't have that issue. We just felt it took the game to a whole new level of ROLLPLAYING which is not the way we wanted to go.

I've heard the boardgame complaint many times as well and have yet to find someone able to clearly state what they really mean. The mechanics are tightened up quite a lot and don't give as much room to break the rules for a particular situation, and I expect many people feel restricted by that, but that hardly removes the ability to roleplay and wing things that aren't in the rules. In other words, there are no situations that can't be played out just because the rules don't cover it, that is all up to the players and DM to make happen. Creative play is still there, and the cardinal rule still exists, that if you don't like a rule, change it.

The base rules are fairly limited in what is immediately available, but that has always been the case with D&D, but I'd have to argue that the customizability of a character is greater in the 4E PHB than in any other PHB before it. And as new books are release new official options will become available for even greater customization depth. I had one player argue that AD&D 2nd Edition was the height of customizable D&D play, and I asked him to create a unique character using only the 2E PHB. He couldn't do it.

My biggest concern, and again this is only using the base rules, is that high level characters will all start to look very similar much like any MMO high level character does. It will be something like "if you don't have powers X, Y and Z then you aren't a very good fighter!" I expect that new rules and powers will come out frequently and change this view pretty easily, but with the rules available that is how I see things.

Things I like about 4E: I like the power system. Everyone gets to do cool things that only their class is capable of doing. I like that something improves every single level. There is nothing worse than leveling up and only getting new HP. Dinging ought to be fun every time. I also like that there are no longer penalties for your choice of race. Everyone gets a bonus. In fact, no character building choice gives you a penalty at all, and that makes it more fun to play with different ideas and combos than before. There are a lot of other things I like, but this wall of text is more than enough for now.

[Karak]

I've heard the boardgame complaint many times as well and have yet to find someone able to clearly state what they really mean. The mechanics are tightened up quite a lot and don't give as much room to break the rules for a particular situation, and I expect many people feel restricted by that, but that hardly removes the ability to roleplay and wing things that aren't in the rules. In other words, there are no situations that can't be played out just because the rules don't cover it, that is all up to the players and DM to make happen. Creative play is still there, and the cardinal rule still exists, that if you don't like a rule, change it.

The base rules are fairly limited in what is immediately available, but that has always been the case with D&D, but I'd have to argue that the customizability of a character is greater in the 4E PHB than in any other PHB before it. And as new books are release new official options will become available for even greater customization depth. I had one player argue that AD&D 2nd Edition was the height of customizable D&D play, and I asked him to create a unique character using only the 2E PHB. He couldn't do it.

My biggest concern, and again this is only using the base rules, is that high level characters will all start to look very similar much like any MMO high level character does. It will be something like "if you don't have powers X, Y and Z then you aren't a very good fighter!" I expect that new rules and powers will come out frequently and change this view pretty easily, but with the rules available that is how I see things.

Things I like about 4E: I like the power system. Everyone gets to do cool things that only their class is capable of doing. I like that something improves every single level. There is nothing worse than leveling up and only getting new HP. Dinging ought to be fun every time. I also like that there are no longer penalties for your choice of race. Everyone gets a bonus. In fact, no character building choice gives you a penalty at all, and that makes it more fun to play with different ideas and combos than before. There are a lot of other things I like, but this wall of text is more than enough for now.

In all honesty you did a very good job of describing exactly what I meant.
I think many people use the "if you don't like a rule than don't use it" crutch without realizing that the game is built in such a way that many rules, if changed or lets say broken, would break another and another and so on, requiring more and more fixes down the road, as my group found out after making a change only to find that the change cascaded as we leveled up, which then required changes to the encounters, which then...well you get the point.
And I am not saying its a poor system. However, there are others that allow for the addition of rules that cause less havoc, than one that is written in such a way that you may cause problems by removing one.

[Karak]

Scull,
Your third Paragraph is and was the kicker for all my groups. I played in 3 when this came out and before I moved and your worry was theres.
And again you can change anything, but most of them decided that going to something ALREADY flexible was a better bet than making something so mechanized MORE flexible.

[Scull]

Scull,
Your third Paragraph is and was the kicker for all my groups. I played in 3 when this came out and before I moved and your worry was theres.
And again you can change anything, but most of them decided that going to something ALREADY flexible was a better bet than making something so mechanized MORE flexible.
I think you may misunderstand me. With JUST the core rule books I see that scenario unfolding, but as with all D&D editions, new books will open up new possibilities. The only way that 3/3.5 were more flexible with just the PHB was in the multi-classing aspect. If you don't multi-class, every single fighter at 20th level looks almost identical. This is a failing of most RPGs in that the end game, especially with a pure class, tends to be pretty generic. Honestly I still think that 4E characters at level 30 have more options available to them than in any previous edition using just the core rules, it is just that the options available don't seem likely to deviate much in the end game. The first of the class books comes out next month and I'm very interested in seeing where they take it.

[Primus]

D&D 3.5 Midnight campaign.

[Karak]

I think you may misunderstand me. With JUST the core rule books I see that scenario unfolding, but as with all D&D editions, new books will open up new possibilities. The only way that 3/3.5 were more flexible with just the PHB was in the multi-classing aspect. If you don't multi-class, every single fighter at 20th level looks almost identical. This is a failing of most RPGs in that the end game, especially with a pure class, tends to be pretty generic. Honestly I still think that 4E characters at level 30 have more options available to them than in any previous edition using just the core rules, it is just that the options available don't seem likely to deviate much in the end game. The first of the class books comes out next month and I'm very interested in seeing where they take it.
No actually I understood exactly what you said. The simple fact is due to the mechanical nature of the original rule set any expansion still has to hold within a specific set of guidelines, skills and such that will NOT break the original set. Like expansions to an MMO. In the end you still have a bunch of level 60's with the same or close to the same Buff.s AND GAWD forbid you do not and your buff's are different or do not fit in with your group and thus could either make their skills less potent or yours.
But in the end they stated very clearly they were going with an MMO feel and that is indeed an MMO feel. They stated they wanted people to feel like they were rolling up characters in an MMO(and in the current atmosphere I don't blame), they also had success with that. Even much of their internal terminalogy makes it difficult or at least confusing if your not using grid paper and minatures. It's a feel they wanted to do and they hit it out of the park.
It's just not my thing. I am not into rollplaying games as much as roleplaying.

[Virtual Machine]

In all honesty you did a very good job of describing exactly what I meant.
I think many people use the "if you don't like a rule than don't use it" crutch without realizing that the game is built in such a way that many rules, if changed or lets say broken, would break another and another and so on, requiring more and more fixes down the road, as my group found out after making a change only to find that the change cascaded as we leveled up, which then required changes to the encounters, which then...well you get the point.
And I am not saying its a poor system. However, there are others that allow for the addition of rules that cause less havoc, than one that is written in such a way that you may cause problems by removing one.

I'm there as well. The 4E books feel more like strategy guides for World of Warcraft than an actual RPG system. I for one HATE the power stuff, which reminds me of tech trees or abilities in an MMO. Overall i just think they borrowed so much from miniature games and Video games that they've lost the "core" of what makes a pen and paper RPG. I also still have issues with the level curve. Once players hit high single digits they pretty much become unstoppable without throwing some EPIC baddies at them. I've actually slowed the rate of XP awards in my own games drastically, making it much harder to level up, and makes every fight that much more exciting for them. That's just my style of playing though - to each their own.

[alienmastermind]

MY main group flows between Mutants and Masterminds and D&D. We started with AD&D many moons ago, moved to 3/3.5 then on to 4th and now back to 3.5.

I did some artwork for a Mutants and Masterminds supplement from adamantentertainment.

It was called Villainomicon...My group plays M&M and some new edition Dungeons and Dragons. (Telephone Man and Candy Girl fight over who gets to be the dragonborn)

[Virtual Machine]

I did some artwork for a Mutants and Masterminds supplement from adamantentertainment.

It was called Villainomicon...My group plays M&M and some new edition Dungeons and Dragons. (Telephone Man and Candy Girl fight over who gets to be the dragonborn)

Ahhh Dragonborn - put in my book of reviled character races next to Warforged and Drow. ;)

[alienmastermind]

Hey Virt...how much flak do you get for your Gamertag? :)

I would like to be in a multiplayer session of CoD4 with you. I get crap for mine all the damned time...it's 'Wussylap'.

And there is a short story with that name that skirts 'interesting'.

[alienmastermind]

My beef with 4th Ed? No official miniatures. They're all random packs from their minis game. While it's nice both games are compatible, I'd like to get me some actual damned miniatures for the game. For now, I'm making do with painted World of Warcraft minis. :)

And Karak, if you like roleplaying, pick up Everway. It's probably, next to Amber Diceless Roleplaying, the closest you get to purest roleplay. It's by Jonathan Tweet, the guy who implemented a LOT of the stuff I absolutely loved about 3.5.

[Ondo]

My beef with 4th Ed? No official miniatures. They're all random packs from their minis game.
They just announced two days ago that they're changing that somewhat - the announcement is here (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/mi/20081021), and there's some additional explanation here (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/4news/20081023).

To sum it up, next spring they'll be selling non-random packs of 3 minis designed for PCs for $11 each, and "semi-random" packs of 5 monsters for $15. One of the monsters will be visible, the rest are random. The minis game is dead. :(

[Karak]

And Karak, if you like roleplaying, pick up Everway. It's probably, next to Amber Diceless Roleplaying, the closest you get to purest roleplay. It's by Jonathan Tweet, the guy who implemented a LOT of the stuff I absolutely loved about 3.5.
Right now i am working with Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay 2nd edition and with a couple of their errata its working swimingly well. We are also using the 4 decks roleplaying system which is amazing. Probably be what we stich with for some time. But thank's I will put it on the list.

[The Doctor]

For Halloween I'm going to be running two horror one-shots.

One will be a Don't Rest Your Head (http://www.evilhat.com/home/?page_id=101) game. I'm still working on writing it up, but it involves a hack writer and a locksmith who accidentally opened a locked door that should never have been opened.

The second one is Call of Cthulhu.. In Space! (http://www.worldsofcthulhu.com) It's an adventure where they're backup crew on a ship sent to find out what happened to first ship to use an experimental FTL drive to explore the center of the universe.

[Virtual Machine]

Hey Virt...how much flak do you get for your Gamertag? :)

I would like to be in a multiplayer session of CoD4 with you. I get crap for mine all the damned time...it's 'Wussylap'.

And there is a short story with that name that skirts 'interesting'.

I had one southern American guy flipping out on me during the COD4 beta. Really pissed off at me. Kept calling me a communist. Several people in the game then decided to attempt to educate him on Communism vs. Socialism, and also why neither system is actually in and of itself evil, and that the American government of his time simply has him brainwashed.

Funniest part of it all, the damn system actually SUGGESTED it to me when i was signing up. ;)


Back on topic, starting up a Star Wars: Saga Edition campaign tonight, playing rather than running, first time in AGES. Very excited.

[MalReynolds]

i still loves Shadowrun ... my fav so far

[OrangePulp]

Had our first death in 4th ed today. Ressurection is a lot less painful now; cheap (although cost goes up at paragon and epic tiers), and the death penalty is... a penalty, but not a lost level like it used to be, which always sucked. The penalty is a -1 to all d20 rolls, basically, until you hit 6 milestones (a milestone is 2 encounters back to back).

Our 4th ed game definitely feels like more of a board game, but that also might be the consequence of using a pre-made campaign. Funny thing is, we thought the premades were pretty good on account of them including big maps; turns out, the maps were just overstock stuff they had from D&D minis, which is disappointing. Some of the magic circles and such make much more sense in that context, however.

I think part of the "rollplay" aspect is how the book (PH) is presented. Well, first of all, it sucks, but it also really pushes the board game aspect, rather than role play aspect.

[Karak]

I think part of the "rollplay" aspect is how the book (PH) is presented. Well, first of all, it sucks, but it also really pushes the board game aspect, rather than role play aspect.

Indeed. But they wanted it that way and did an excellent job presenting it that way. Remember, they stated very clearly that they wanted an MMO-boardgame syle and even went so far as to changing some of their descriptors to mirror boardgames and mini games.
I, for one, am hoping they continue that way and then you will have a good dividing line between the games that are Rollplay and others that are Roleplay. There is a place for both for sure.
Sounds like you like some of it. That's awesome.

[J Arcane]

Had our first death in 4th ed today. Ressurection is a lot less painful now; cheap (although cost goes up at paragon and epic tiers), and the death penalty is... a penalty, but not a lost level like it used to be, which always sucked. The penalty is a -1 to all d20 rolls, basically, until you hit 6 milestones (a milestone is 2 encounters back to back).

See, this sort of mechanic is exactly why I abandoned D&D with 4th ed. in favor of other games.

It's fucking Res Sickness. They may as well have you write a little debuff icon on your character sheet. And frankly, if I want to play a game with MMO mechanics, I'll play a fucking MMO.

4e smacks of nothing so much as desperately trying to grab at some of that fat WoW cash by hopelessly aping it as much as possible.

Fuck it, I've got other games that don't insist on hand-holding the needy "gimme gimme" attitude of the video game generation.

[Evewalker]

See, this sort of mechanic is exactly why I abandoned D&D with 4th ed. in favor of other games.

It's fucking Res Sickness. They may as well have you write a little debuff icon on your character sheet. And frankly, if I want to play a game with MMO mechanics, I'll play a fucking MMO.

4e smacks of nothing so much as desperately trying to grab at some of that fat WoW cash by hopelessly aping it as much as possible.

Fuck it, I've got other games that don't insist on hand-holding the needy "gimme gimme" attitude of the video game generation.

Thank you, J Arcane, for pretty much summing up my complete feelings on 4th Ed. as well. :)

It really is a Pen and Paper MMO.

[phoenyx]

It's been a while since I've cracked out my old books. But I always felt that the older versions had far too many different rule-sets, tables and different ways to handle similar effects for it's own good.

I like 4e because it cleans up many of problems and streamlines everything into a more balanced, tactical combat RPG. Given how much you needed maps, minis, drawings and the like, It is almost a natural progression. It's faster, cleaner, and easier for people to join in and follow along. Maybe is not for a long term, highly cerebral campaigns, but then again... We're talking about D&D!

Game systems can't be everything for everyone. Each one has a place and a market they are striving for. I used to tend towards D&D, GURPS, Champions/Hero, and Paranoia. Each had a different feel and I'd play each for different reason.

It's just a shame that we don't also have an update to the 3.5e line to continue it's place in the gaming spectrum, but there are lots of others to take it's place.

[Vanifae]

I am currently playing an online D&D 4th Edition game but I am tempted to try Artesia or Dark Heresy both seem very fun.

Of course watching Rome makes me want to run the Vampire Rome supplement as well.

[MalReynolds]

Played some KOTOR stuff last sunday and i was impressed i loves it so far

think were onto D&D eberon or something like that this week

[Ondo]

It's just a shame that we don't also have an update to the 3.5e line to continue it's place in the gaming spectrum, but there are lots of others to take it's place.
Actually, thanks to the OGL anyone can update the 3.5e line; the most notable effort to do so is Paizo's Pathfinder RPG.

[phoenyx]

Yea, I did hear about that. Myth weavers had a thread on it I was reading. I guess I'll have to look at it to see how it compares.

http://www.myth-weavers.com/showthread.php?t=44287

Have to say one thing, there is no lack of opinions. :)

[Vanifae]

How is the Pathfinder RPG?

[walkstheplanes]

4th edition. Playing an 8th level Cleric, and I really enjoy the mechanics (however MMO'esque they may be.

[5y1v4r]

My deal with 4.0 is not the system itself, I really do like the system, I think it's tight and well designed, it just does not feel like D&D to me. I can accept it as it's own game, just not as D&D. I'm running a 4.0 campaign right now and I keep stealing plot bits from video games (I started off with a big Assassin's Creed reference) because it feels like it harks to those games more than the fantasy novels I associated with 3.5 and older. How is everybody else dealing with this?

[Jon the Uncool]

I've only been playing Pen and paper games since 2003, and really only have a few campaigns under my belt, none what I would call completed. This Sunday marks the first time I will have ever attempted running a campaign myself. We're using the Eberron setting with 3rd Edition rules. I've told the guys that my influences are going to be more than obvious when we start playing, but I'm really hoping they'll have fun.

[Nameless]

How is the Pathfinder RPG?

I think it's a neat progression to the 3.5 ruleset, and, being a big fan of those rules, am really looking forward to the final release in August.

That said, however, there are still lots of flaws (though as the playtest continues, many are being ironed out). Certainly, high-level play still seems like it'll be a problem. Melee classes will still be weaker than spellcasting classes (though the gap has narrowed considerably), and there are a lot of rules to learn (as with any edition to D&D).

Honestly, though, I think it's a real improvement for the 3.5 rules, and anyone who enjoyed that ruleset would do themselves a favour by checking out the BETA, after all, it's free! On Paizo's website! (http://paizo.com/)

Also, I am hoping to run a play-by-Email adventure sometime in the newyear using the BETA rules as my own playtest (as my real-life group doesn't seem too interested in playtesting), so if you want to try the new rules out, that might be just for you.

[Lint of Death]

3.5 edition D&D mostly with friends from high school. I never played before this half of the year, but I'm definitely enjoying it.

[MalReynolds]

I've only been playing Pen and paper games since 2003, and really only have a few campaigns under my belt, none what I would call completed. This Sunday marks the first time I will have ever attempted running a campaign myself. We're using the Eberron setting with 3rd Edition rules. I've told the guys that my influences are going to be more than obvious when we start playing, but I'm really hoping they'll have fun.

Sorry we havnt been able to start it maybe next wed

[pseudopseudo]

Just started playing the D&D minis game. (My brother and I figured that since our D&D group doesn't get together on a regular basis, we might as well use the minis we bought for *something*.) I'm actually digging it a LOT. To me, the battles are the most fun part of D&D, so... yeah. The minis game is perfect.

[Ink Asylum]

My friends and I get together every 2-3 weeks for a long PnP session. For the last few years we've primarily played World of Darkness campaigns, mostly Mage. Each of us has a campaign we run and we tend to switch between them based on who feels like GMing.

For the last year, though, we've been almost exclusively playing my campaign. I took the Mage ruleset and modified it slightly to work for the universe of The Dresden Files. For those not familiar with that, it's a series of detective novels about a modern day wizard in Chicago where the supernatural is real, from vampires to werewolves to faeries and beyond.

I and my players have been having a blast. Paradox is gone, so the characters can lob fireballs, leap a hundred feet in the air, melt cars into slag, or shapeshift without fear of backlash. Instead, they are limited by a mana system, allowing them to use up all their magic and run on fumes, as happens to Dresden in nearly every book. Also, although reality doesn't smack them down, there is a governing body of wizards with strict rules for how magic can be used, under penalty of death.

The campaign is set in a darker version of NYC so as not to step on Dresden's toes. The team is currently caught between a corporation apparently run by forgotten gods of various mythologies and an NYPD infested with vampires and other baddies. The Police Commissioner, a White Court vampire that feeds off fear, was just elected Mayor.

[Karak]

Very cool Ink.
I feel that systems like that need either Paradox or a body of others watching, so that gamers don't slag the world "Oblivion" style with no true worries.
Very cool.

[Ink Asylum]

Very cool Ink.
I feel that systems like that need either Paradox or a body of others watching, so that gamers don't slag the world "Oblivion" style with no true worries.
Very cool.

Yeah. I think the twin limitations of having a mana pool (good for about a dozen spells, depending on how powerful they are) and the danger of execution are enough to keep them under control, and so far it's worked.

The First Law of Dresden Magic alone means they have to be incredibly careful. No killing humans with magic. Even if you do it in self-defense you're still going to be put on trial.