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DoctorFinger
04-19-2011, 06:40 AM
What has to be one of the more...interesting game launches of all time has finally arrived. Three different delays, three weeks of potato-related alternate reality gaming and a frantic rush to play some wonderful indie games resulted in Portal 2 releasing 7 hours early.

But there are still some surprises. Which won't be spoiled here. But gamers have discovered an item store, where you can buy aesthetic add ons for your co-op bots. Trading is mentioned but it doesn't appear to be active yet. And yes, there are hats.

BVEyx9sMIpY

As for the ARG, some gamers are unhappy that the game only unlocked 7 hours early, but most seem to have enjoyed the ARG, and experienced some of the best indie games in the process. Gamers who earned all 36 potatoes from the ARG/Potato Sack games reportedly receive Valve's whole catalog as a reward.

Sources - PC Gamer (http://www.pcgamer.com/2011/04/19/portal-2-has-item-store-trading-coming-soon/); Joystiq (http://www.joystiq.com/2011/04/19/portal-2-available-right-now-happy-potato-fools-day/)

MagGnome
04-19-2011, 07:13 AM
The game is awesome. The opening alone had me on the edge of my seat.

kyrieee
04-19-2011, 07:48 AM
The game is awesome. The opening alone had me on the edge of my seat.

Really? :P I was quite bored with the opening

Mike Kelehan
04-19-2011, 08:46 AM
As for the ARG, some gamers are unhappy that the game only unlocked 7 hours early...

Yeah, that'll teach Valve to do something fun.

Exodus
04-19-2011, 08:51 AM
I was bored with the game play for the first hour or so. The re-enactment of Half-Life 1's opening with the amusing robot was good but it really felt like I'm playing through the tutorial. I know that because this game is being introduced to console players that it is easing people into the game play but...it's like playing put the star shaped block through the star shaped hole.

I'm sure it'll get better later on the game is supposed to be quite a bit longer than the first game so I have high hopes. Not to mention that it has multi player as well.

Mike Kelehan
04-19-2011, 08:53 AM
I know that because this game is being introduced to console players that it is easing people into the game play but...it's like playing put the star shaped block through the star shaped hole.

Portal 1 was on consoles, too. It has nothing to do with that, and everything to do with introducing this to people who are starting with Portal 2, on both PC and console.

Ink Asylum
04-19-2011, 08:57 AM
Even though it's safe to assume that the majority of Portal 2 players have played Portal 1, that doesn't mean Valve can neglect some tutorial levels for basic concepts. They definitely go by faster than they do in Portal 1 anyway.

What sequel doesn't re-train you in the early levels? It's only a bit more obvious because they use some of the same rooms in Portal 2.

Savok
04-19-2011, 09:00 AM
I know that because this game is being introduced to console players that it is easing people into the game play but...it's like playing put the star shaped block through the star shaped hole.
And you know, people who didn't play Portal (admittedly mutants who should be killed) but hey don't let that stop you citing meaningless console/PC bullshit.

Game's amazing. Start was amazing too, captured a feeling I haven't had in a game since '94. Proceeded to get more amazing. I'm gonna say amazing some more now. Amazing.

DoctorFinger
04-19-2011, 09:07 AM
Manual override.

Exodus
04-19-2011, 09:09 AM
And you know, people who didn't play Portal (admittedly mutants who should be killed) but hey don't let that stop you citing meaningless console/PC bullshit.

Game's amazing. Start was amazing too, captured a feeling I haven't had in a game since '94. Proceeded to get more amazing. I'm gonna say amazing some more now. Amazing.

Ahh my bad I didn't know it was released on console!

It still didn't grip me all that much for the most part. I enjoy the motif and it is interesting but I just got bored after the first slew of jump over the lasers section. It's just getting through the simple crap that is making it a trial really. I was never one of those omg the cake is a lie, how woooonderfully amusing or companion cube, what a funny thing to create a character creation to with an inanimate object.

And, this time around gLad0s was written too hard to be the same as before. The new character however, quite good and very well animated definitely taking a cue from CG studios who had to deal with giving expression to objects ala pixar.

violent
04-19-2011, 09:12 AM
I was bored with the game play for the first hour or so. The re-enactment of Half-Life 1's opening with the amusing robot was good but it really felt like I'm playing through the tutorial. I know that because this game is being introduced to console players that it is easing people into the game play but...it's like playing put the star shaped block through the star shaped hole.

I'm sure it'll get better later on the game is supposed to be quite a bit longer than the first game so I have high hopes. Not to mention that it has multi player as well.

I'm one of the biggest PC elitists out there and I can say with absolute certainty that you are the odd man in this equation. The game reeks of quality and charm. If you don't enjoy that, it's nothing more than personal preference. There is no indication of under the table actions.

Exodus
04-19-2011, 09:16 AM
I'm one of the biggest PC elitists out there and I can say with absolute certainty that you are the odd man in this equation. The game reeks of quality and charm. If you don't enjoy that, it's nothing more than personal preference. There is no indication of under the table actions.

That's not my problem with it. I have no problem with the quality it's top notch production. The tutorial is just mind blazingly easy where I feel the need to play with my feet on the controls in order to create difficulty.

RandoM51
04-19-2011, 09:16 AM
7 hours early is 7 months in valve time.


The tutorial is just mind blazingly easy.

You're complaining that the tutorial---the part of the game that is put there primarily for people new to the game, perhaps even new to games of this type---is too easy? OK.

violent
04-19-2011, 09:20 AM
That's not my problem with it. I have no problem with the quality it's top notch production. The tutorial is just mind blazingly easy where I feel the need to play with my feet on the controls in order to create difficulty.

I'm finding the whole game easy, actually. Just as I did with the first Portal. I hope they release some really difficult maps moving forward but for now, there is a pleasant balance between puzzle and story and both oddly enough, are quite simple.

Ink Asylum
04-19-2011, 09:26 AM
If you find the story puzzles too easy there's always the challenge maps, which if they're anything like the first game will be much tougher.

I haven't heard anything about it yet, but I'm hopeful Valve will support Portal 2 post-release as they have with TF2 and Left 4 Dead. More map packs, please. Especially co-op!

DoctorFinger
04-19-2011, 09:47 AM
Valve has said before that they will be supporting it post-release, but they were coy about what sort of content it would get.

Exodus
04-19-2011, 09:48 AM
I just wish there was a skip tutorial is all.

SilentScreams
04-19-2011, 09:49 AM
As curious as I am about this game, there's no way I'm paying full price for it.

Portal was cheap, novel and fun. The novelty is gone now, so I don't see what they could possibly have done to make this a full price release.

Exodus
04-19-2011, 09:52 AM
Actually you know what, it's my lack of time to play games is what's really killing me.

There's just not enough hours in a day. Honestly I just really wish I had time to sit through this game and a lot of other games. I just freaking miss playing video games. I find myself playing HoN instead for the quick matches now.

Ink Asylum
04-19-2011, 09:53 AM
More than doubled the campaign length? Added a full and unique co-op campaign? Added a half dozen new puzzle mechanics?

Savok
04-19-2011, 10:03 AM
Brilliant writing and fantastic mechanics are a novelty now... what the fuck is wrong with you all? If this was bitching about the store, yeah that makes sense, but it's just fucking nonsense.

GlaDOS doesn't crawl out of the screen and give me a blowjob, I'm writing Gabe an angry letter!

violent
04-19-2011, 10:06 AM
Brilliant writing and fantastic mechanics are a novelty now... what the fuck is wrong with you all? If this was bitching about the store, yeah that makes sense, but it's just fucking nonsense.

GlaDOS doesn't crawl out of the screen and give me a blowjob, I'm writing Gabe an angry letter!

Gamers and the internet. Like children with a platform.

kyrieee
04-19-2011, 10:07 AM
I didn't mean the tutorial, I mean the stuff you don't have much control over. Stuff like that always makes me snooze, even if I have control over the camera.

ElektroDragon
04-19-2011, 10:08 AM
All I want to know is if you can play the PS3 version and the bundled PC version at the same time and against each other. That's all I want to know. As in confirmation from someone who has tried it, not hearsay. Thank you.

Lon Lon Rabbit
04-19-2011, 10:26 AM
I didn't mean the tutorial, I mean the stuff you don't have much control over. Stuff like that always makes me snooze, even if I have control over the camera.

I don't personally have a problem with that, but I did find it unusual that Valve broke their "don't take control away from the player ever" rule at least 3 or 4 times throughout the game.

Stmfuller
04-19-2011, 10:27 AM
The game's a lot of fun...I was tempted to call in today just to play it some more.

Steven Merchant's character is also hilarious :D

Widgetcraft
04-19-2011, 10:41 AM
Brilliant writing and fantastic mechanics are a novelty now... what the fuck is wrong with you all? If this was bitching about the store, yeah that makes sense, but it's just fucking nonsense.

GlaDOS doesn't crawl out of the screen and give me a blowjob, I'm writing Gabe an angry letter!

I'm loving it, personally. I'm not sure how far along I am in the game (Steam says I'm two hours into the game), but they really put a lot of effort into this one. The graphics exceed anything that Valve has produced until now, and it seems like around every corner there is something new and interesting to see. The writing is at least as good as it was in Portal, and there is a lot more of it, which is a big plus. The puzzles started out easy, but they get difficult enough that I had to stop and think about a few of them. I enjoy the new puzzle elements, though I'm not going to spoil them here.

I'll say this: I'm disappointed that there doesn't seem to be a commentary mode. I'm hoping that unlocks once I've beaten the game, but I'm not sure that it will. I really like running through those on Valve games, and the original Portal's was very informative.

EDIT: Nevermind, I'm an idiot, the Commentary option shows up when you click Single Player.

Savok
04-19-2011, 10:54 AM
Pretty sure I saw a commentary option in there. Think you have to complete chapters before it unlocks for them.

Ink Asylum
04-19-2011, 11:00 AM
Pretty confident that's how it worked for Portal 1, as well. I would love to hear commentary about what they learned from the first game and how they developed the new mechanics.

MagGnome
04-19-2011, 11:14 AM
Really? :P I was quite bored with the opening

Sad.


As curious as I am about this game, there's no way I'm paying full price for it.

Portal was cheap, novel and fun. The novelty is gone now, so I don't see what they could possibly have done to make this a full price release.

I felt the same way about Starcraft 2. At least Portal 2 wasn't $60. ;)

SilentScreams
04-19-2011, 11:15 AM
Neither was Starcraft 2 if you shopped around, even on release day. :)

MagGnome
04-19-2011, 11:16 AM
It's a strange day when Savok is the positive person in a thread. :p

Ink Asylum
04-19-2011, 11:21 AM
Portal 1 was one of the few games that incredible cynic Yahtzee had nothing but praise for.

SilentScreams
04-19-2011, 11:22 AM
To be fair, I wasn't being overwhelmingly negative. It's just that it's a Valve game. Negativity, no matter how slight, is not allowed. I should have remembered.

I'll pick it up eventually, because Portal was reasonably fun. Just not at full price.

MagGnome
04-19-2011, 11:27 AM
To be fair, I wasn't being overwhelmingly negative. It's just that it's a Valve game. Negativity, no matter how slight, is not allowed. I should have remembered.

Come on, bud. I've seen you do the same thing with Blizzard multiple times. Hence my previous ribbing. :p

SilentScreams
04-19-2011, 11:32 AM
It's funny, I'm not even overwhelmingly fond of Blizzard. I've been bored of WoW for a couple of years, and I've never been an RTS gamer. Diablo is really the only thing they have that I'm interested in.

Apprently defending Activision from the ridiculously unfair amount of shit they get from gamers makes me a Blizzard fanboy. I'm not sure how that works, but I've never cared enough to question it. :)

MagGnome
04-19-2011, 11:34 AM
It's funny, I'm not even overwhelmingly fond of Blizzard. I've been bored of WoW for a couple of years, and I've never been an RTS gamer. Diablo is really the only thing they have that I'm interested in.

Apprently defending Activision from the ridiculously unfair amount of shit they get from gamers makes me a Blizzard fanboy. I'm not sure how that works, but I've never cared enough to question it. :)

I'm not going to get into a pointless argument, but I will remember this when Diablo 3 and the last 2/3 of Starcraft 2 launch in 2015. ;)

Ink Asylum
04-19-2011, 11:37 AM
To be fair, I wasn't being overwhelmingly negative. It's just that it's a Valve game. Negativity, no matter how slight, is not allowed. I should have remembered.

You asked a question and I answered it. Portal 2 definitely has more than double the content than Portal 1. So take what you think Portal 1 was worth and multiply that by 2-3. If you pay that price for Portal 2 I don't think you'll regret it.

Narradisall
04-19-2011, 11:39 AM
Can I killz you both?

MagGnome
04-19-2011, 11:41 AM
I think a certain Brit is taking my comments far too seriously.

Narradisall
04-19-2011, 11:41 AM
I can confirm Silent NEVER bloody plays Starcraft 2. :p

Narradisall
04-19-2011, 11:43 AM
I think a certain Brit is taking my comments far too seriously.

Nah, I just forgot the smiley face. :p

fitbabits
04-19-2011, 11:45 AM
Thanks be to fuck that this is finally released. I'm sick, sick, sick of hearing about it.

Narradisall
04-19-2011, 11:46 AM
Thanks be to fuck that this is finally released. I'm sick, sick, sick of hearing about it.

You think you'll hear any less by the weekend when everyone has finished?

My god, the meme's and cakes alone will drive you to the edge, TO THE EDGE SAY!

SilentScreams
04-19-2011, 11:46 AM
I'm not going to get into a pointless argument, but I will remember this when Diablo 3 and the last 2/3 of Starcraft 2 launch in 2015. ;)

You are a cruel gnome to goad me so. I wonder if gnomes are an enemy in Diablo 3 to be slaughtered en masse...:)
Also, don't even joke about 2015...Diablo 3 is apparently on target to be released this year. Let me have my optimism/delusion.

You asked a question and I answered it. Portal 2 definitely has more than double the content than Portal 1. So take what you think Portal 1 was worth and multiply that by 2-3. If you pay that price for Portal 2 I don't think you'll regret it.

It wasn't really your answer that I was referring to. You just pointed out what they added, which was fair enough.
I think I'll have to play Portal 2 at a friends place to see it for myself.

Blue
04-19-2011, 11:49 AM
Glad to see folks are digging it (for the most part). I won't be getting it until it's cheaper despite enjoying the first quite a bit but I'm happy to see it'll be worth getting when I get around to it.

I do, however, look forward to a month from now when Steam isn't covered in ads for it. Nothing against P2 at all, same would go for any game.

SilentScreams
04-19-2011, 11:49 AM
I can confirm Silent NEVER bloody plays Starcraft 2. :p

:D

As I said, I'm not a huge RTS fan. I got my copy of SC2 for free, which is the only reason I had it on release day.
The fun kind of wore off for me when everyone figured out the best tactics. I enjoyed the first few weeks of playing with my friends when we were all just trying out random stuff.

Ink Asylum
04-19-2011, 11:51 AM
It wasn't really your answer that I was referring to. You just pointed out what they added, which was fair enough.
I think I'll have to play Portal 2 at a friends place to see it for myself.

Try the co-op if nothing else.

Narradisall
04-19-2011, 11:53 AM
:D

As I said, I'm not a huge RTS fan. I got my copy of SC2 for free, which is the only reason I had it on release day.
The fun kind of wore off for me when everyone figured out the best tactics. I enjoyed the first few weeks of playing with my friends when we were all just trying out random stuff.

Yeah, I know what you mean. I played the first few months on ladder, went back recently and it's a slaughterhouse (even more so for me being in Diamond still for some reason).

People just copy build orders they see on casts and rush. You lose! Sure, you can learn as much as them for counters and such, but I just normally end up on the mod games, some of them that have been made are REALLY good fun.

Blizzard even made some (one if the outbreak mission from the SP, with co-op!).

Oh and Diablo 3 will never drop this year. Sorry! :D

SilentScreams
04-19-2011, 11:56 AM
Oh and Diablo 3 will never drop this year. Sorry! :D

La La La! I'm not listening!

...That is utterly ineffective on a message board...

Gorvi
04-19-2011, 12:00 PM
It's going to be hard to pull myself away from this tonight to go to bed. I'll have the kids in bed tonight then I'll be glued to the TV........

Ink Asylum
04-19-2011, 12:04 PM
Try covering your eyes. Though that will make it hard to type as well.

Ink Asylum
04-19-2011, 12:06 PM
It's going to be hard to pull myself away from this tonight to go to bed. I'll have the kids in bed tonight then I'll be glued to the TV........

"Dad? Why are we going to bed at 6pm?"

Gorvi
04-19-2011, 12:09 PM
"Dad? Why are we going to bed at 6pm?"
Oh, if only that would work. No, I have a plan, I'm taking them to the park for a little picnic dinner then I'll let them tire themselves out on the playground so they pass right out when we get home. I'd call that a win/win. :D

The nice thing is my oldest was watching me play the original Portal on Steam over the weekend and he loved it, so I have a feeling I'll be playing it all over again this weekend too. :)

Widgetcraft
04-19-2011, 12:11 PM
"Dad? Why are we going to bed at 6pm?"

The appropriate response to that is: "For science."

Ink Asylum
04-19-2011, 12:12 PM
Oh, if only that would work. No, I have a plan, I'm taking them to the park for a little picnic dinner then I'll let them tire themselves out on the playground so they pass right out when we get home. I'd call that a win/win. :D

"Dad! Why do we have to run around with these backpacks full of bricks?"

Gorvi
04-19-2011, 12:13 PM
The appropriate response to that is: "For science."
Good idea......
"Dad! Why do we have to run around with these backpacks full of bricks?"
Now that's just mean. And it's lead boots. ;)

kyrieee
04-19-2011, 12:20 PM
Sad.

Again, I meant the part that's not very interactive :P
I like it, having played a few hours, but I don't think it's amazing. I think I know what all the reviews will say though.

MagGnome
04-19-2011, 01:15 PM
Nah, I just forgot the smiley face. :p

I was referring to Silent Screams. :p


Thanks be to fuck that this is finally released. I'm sick, sick, sick of hearing about it.

Another hater of fun. Cast away thy demons and join us in gaming heaven!

You are a cruel gnome to goad me so. I wonder if gnomes are an enemy in Diablo 3 to be slaughtered en masse...:)
Also, don't even joke about 2015...Diablo 3 is apparently on target to be released this year. Let me have my optimism/delusion.

I'll ignore your joke about gnome genocide...

Diablo 3 is a likely to come this year as is the rapture.

Again, I meant the part that's not very interactive :P
I like it, having played a few hours, but I don't think it's amazing. I think I know what all the reviews will say though.

They are probably going to complain about the lack of shooty bangs, blood, and the fact that there are colors other than brown and gray in the game. Clearly Portal 2 is not next gen.

Gorvi
04-19-2011, 01:23 PM
Ugh, I'm starting to get the sinking feeling that, of all nights, I'm going to be stuck working late tonight...... :(

Savok
04-19-2011, 02:05 PM
Just beat the game, consistently brilliant, the ending outdoes the first somehow. Steam says I played for 4 hours, that's a lie it was more like 6-7, not sure why it's wrong but whatever. The Goddamn Batman has a fight on his hands.

Ink Asylum
04-19-2011, 02:21 PM
Has anyone finished the co-op and knows the approximate playtime for that? My brother and I played for over two hours this morning and are only finishing up the third or fourth level set.

roboninja
04-19-2011, 03:53 PM
Man, there's no doubt the humor is back. It might be even better than the first.

Widgetcraft
04-20-2011, 01:26 AM
Man, there's no doubt the humor is back. It might be even better than the first.

I think the whole game is better than the first in pretty much every way, and I'm a big fan of the original (I beat it three times in the past week alone).

Nura
04-20-2011, 02:33 AM
Has anyone finished the co-op and knows the approximate playtime for that? My brother and I played for over two hours this morning and are only finishing up the third or fourth level set.

Around 4-5 hours i think i did it in. Great stuff too.

BabyJesus
04-20-2011, 08:15 AM
Love it so far, funny and fun. Missed a couple achievements already. Bummer.

Oh and the loading screen between levels can go suck an egg. If they could have just added to variety to them. Something funny or cool would have gone a long way.

And the graphics are great. Alot of nice touches and smooth as butter.

Ink Asylum
04-20-2011, 08:19 AM
Around 4-5 hours i think i did it in. Great stuff too.

We finished it last night with a little over 4 hours clocked in. The very final "puzzle" made us laugh out loud when the solution finally clicked in my head.

One of the best parts of the co-op is how quickly you come back from the dead. After a while I just started each level by jumping onto any springboard or flinging myself from various walls, just to see where they went. I often died, but it provided valuable information about the puzzle. Science!

MagGnome
04-20-2011, 09:09 AM
The co-op is pure genius. Some of the most fun I've had with multiplayer in years.

Ink Asylum
04-20-2011, 09:15 AM
My first coop playthrough with my brother will easy join my favorite multiplayer gaming experiences of all time. The world needs more cooperative puzzlers. Talking out a puzzle and experimenting with solutions is remarkably fun.

MagGnome
04-20-2011, 09:19 AM
Finding different ways to kill each other is fun too. GLaDOS was not impressed. :D

Dualonymous
04-20-2011, 09:37 AM
I must say i have taught Jackel a few valuable lessons in trust.

Ink Asylum
04-20-2011, 09:58 AM
I must say i have taught Jackel a few valuable lessons in trust.

"Good job, robots!"

fitbabits
04-20-2011, 10:06 AM
Four or five hours for $60. Didn't Homefront's campaign take that long, and wasn't it absolutely hammered because of it?

Shieldmaiden
04-20-2011, 10:07 AM
Four or five hours for $60. Didn't Homefront's campaign take that long, and wasn't it absolutely hammered because of it?

Four or five hours is for the co-op. The single player is around six to eight.

J Arcane
04-20-2011, 10:09 AM
Four or five hours for $60. Didn't Homefront's campaign take that long, and wasn't it absolutely hammered because of it?

It's also how long it takes to beat L4D's campaigns at a snail's pace, as well as any of the HL Episodes.

Shortage of content is becoming a Valve standard feature. I'm very glad I didn't preorder.

This'll wait for the Steam sale I think, just like all of Valve's games do lately.

fitbabits
04-20-2011, 10:09 AM
Four or five hours is for the co-op. The single player is around six to eight.
Still, though, other full-price games have been (rightly) hammered for a very short main campaign. Portal 2 gets a pass because...?

fitbabits
04-20-2011, 10:11 AM
It's also how long it takes to beat L4D's campaigns at a snail's pace, as well as any of the HL Episodes.

Shortage of content is becoming a Valve standard feature. I'm very glad I didn't preorder.

This'll wait for the Steam sale I think, just like all of Valve's games do lately.
Yeah, I kinda noticed that (the length, or lack thereof, of Valve games).

There's something to be said for eight hours of quality versus 12-14 hours mediocrity, but I find the hypocrisy/favoritism a little jarring.

J Arcane
04-20-2011, 10:14 AM
Yeah, I kinda noticed that (the length, or lack thereof, of Valve games).

There's something to be said for eight hours of quality versus 12-14 hours mediocrity, but I find the hypocrisy/favoritism a little jarring.

I agree, but as I learned with L4D, good luck getting that through to anyone.

kyrieee
04-20-2011, 10:16 AM
Shortage of content is becoming a Valve standard feature. I'm very glad I didn't preorder.

I'm glad I pre-ordered and paid 28 instead of 50 ;)

Psykoboy2
04-20-2011, 10:18 AM
I said this in another thread and I'll put it here:

This was too long for a tweet - anyone who says portal 2 is four hours long (without playing the game first) and bitches about day one DLC can fuck right the hell off. I'm looking at you guy whose name rhymes with Drill Samson.

Ink Asylum
04-20-2011, 10:19 AM
Four or five hours for $60. Didn't Homefront's campaign take that long, and wasn't it absolutely hammered because of it?

4-6 hours for a first time playthrough. Another 3-4 for the completely unique co-op campaign. So more like 7-10 hours of fresh content. I would've considered $60 a good value, even though I only paid $40 on Steam.

I would rather have a tight, intense game that's half as short as a bloated, artificially lengthened one.

Ink Asylum
04-20-2011, 10:22 AM
Still, though, other full-price games have been (rightly) hammered for a very short main campaign. Portal 2 gets a pass because...?

Because the campaign is better than those other games?

People are less likely to bitch about the amount of content when the quality is exemplary. It's why customers at expensive restaurants are less likely to complain about smaller entrees.

violent
04-20-2011, 10:26 AM
There's good reason to praise every one of Valve's games.

Mot Wakorb
04-20-2011, 10:28 AM
Because the campaign is better than those other games?

People are less likely to bitch about the amount of content when the quality is exemplary. It's why customers at expensive restaurants are less likely to complain about smaller entrees.

Admittedly, I'm very much liking Portal 2, but I'm not about to give it or any other game a free pass. It does seem like many games as of late are starting to have very short campaigns or gameplay, yet they charge $60 for them. Does it drop what I'd review it at, sure, somewhat, as that's only one factor. I'm not liking how much shorter games are getting, yet the cost stays the same. This just seems to me to be another example of this trend in gaming.

J Arcane
04-20-2011, 10:30 AM
There's good reason to praise every one of Valve's games.
Sure there is. I've had fun with pretty much all of them except L4D2 (which is why I didn't buy it).

But I'm also glad I've never paid more than $20 for any of them, because I wouldn't feel like I got my money's worth.

violent
04-20-2011, 10:34 AM
Sure there is. I've had fun with pretty much all of them except L4D2 (which is why I didn't buy it).

But I'm also glad I've never paid more than $20 for any of them, because I wouldn't feel like I got my money's worth.

But that can be said about anything in the world. I don't think Valve is remotely alone in such thinking. At the end of the day, a man has to hate something.

Ink Asylum
04-20-2011, 10:35 AM
I'm all for cheaper console titles. I don't think a campaign that seems a little short for the price would effect my review score, though. It's not like we're talking about a 1-2 hour campaign. There's around eight hours of solid content for the average consumer, which is not that far from many similar titles. Games, unlike movies and books, can have amazingly different levels of content in terms of time invested for the same price levels. Once a game passes a certain threshhold, which I think Portal 2 clearly does, length becomes a minor issue.

Although if there are clear cases of specific people bagging on another game's equivalent length while ignoring it for Portal 2, then yes that's showing some hypocrisy. But I still think the quality of those hours will effect whether the length will bother a reviewer enough for them to bring it up in a review.

J Arcane
04-20-2011, 10:37 AM
But that can be said about anything in the world. I don't think Valve is remotely alone in such thinking. At the end of the day, a man has to hate something.

Except you, of course.

violent
04-20-2011, 10:38 AM
Except you, of course.

I hate your face.

digitalErich
04-20-2011, 10:40 AM
Anyone burning through Portal 2 in 4 hours is playing Portal 2 specifically to finish it in 4 hours. Considering both price and quality, Portal 2 is still one of the best games I've played in the past few years.

Sure, you always want more of things you like, but I think that adding on a couple hours for the sake of stretching it out would have done the game a disservice. It flowed perfectly.

Ink Asylum
04-20-2011, 10:50 AM
I agree. Of course I want more puzzles, but that would've meant messing with the flow of the story.

If Valve follow through on their promise to support Portal 2 post-release the way they have TF2 and L4D we'll get more puzzles and the campaign will remain well-paced.

kyrieee
04-20-2011, 11:03 AM
I agree. Of course I want more puzzles, but that would've meant messing with the flow of the story.

If Valve follow through on their promise to support Portal 2 post-release the way they have TF2 and L4D we'll get more puzzles and the campaign will remain well-paced.

I think you'll get more emotes in the store.
Not saying it to shit on Valve, but that's what I think they'll provide.

Ink Asylum
04-20-2011, 11:11 AM
Yeah. The last thing Valve does is provide actual maps and levels for their games.

Look, hate on the Mann Co store all you want but they've proven through TF2 and L4D that they routinely provide maps and other actual gameplay content for free. The level of actual content in TF2 has probably quadrupled, if not more so, since launch, and a new buyer of TF2 gets access to all of that without spending another cent more. All they miss out on is a bunch of hats and weird weapons which they can still get largely for free through crafting or random drops.

In Left 4 Dead 2 they launched with five campaigns and now have 2 more, 2 imported and updated ones from L4D1, and a number of officially promoted and released community created ones. Again, all for free.

Even after the Mann Co store launched Valve has continued releasing new TF2 maps, contents and features for free. I don't know why you think this won't happen for Portal 2.

violent
04-20-2011, 11:16 AM
I think you'll get more emotes in the store.
Not saying it to shit on Valve, but that's what I think they'll provide.

Think about all the free campaigns released for L4D and L4D2. Think about TF2 sans the optional store. Sure they will likely sell stuff in the store for those who want the items but can't be bothered to grind, but assuming there would be no additional content released is biased assumption as their multiplayer titles have received plenty of content. Plenty.

MagGnome
04-20-2011, 11:17 AM
I'm a little surprised that people who haven't even played the game are going out of their way to rip on it, but I guess I shouldn't be.

I suppose it doesn't matter. I'm having a blast playing a fantastic game while they stew and squeal. :/

violent
04-20-2011, 11:22 AM
If you have nothing to contribute, hate. It's a safety mechanism against loneliness.

wyeast
04-20-2011, 11:31 AM
There's good reason to praise every one of Valve's games on the PC.
FTFY. Xbox TF2 players would like to have a word with you. All four of them. :)

MagGnome
04-20-2011, 11:35 AM
If you have nothing to contribute, hate. It's a safety mechanism against loneliness.

I hate the way you smile.

violent
04-20-2011, 11:40 AM
FTFY. Xbox TF2 players would like to have a word with you. All four of them. :)

Ah yes, the peasantry.

I hate the way you smile.

Likely because I smile when I betray.

kyrieee
04-20-2011, 12:25 PM
Ugh, I said I didn't write that to hate on Valve, I know they've added content to other games but I think that adding levels to a game like Portal 2 is different than adding levels to multiplayer games like L4D or TF2. I wouldn't be mad at Valve if they add hats and don't add levels because I don't expect levels and I'm not buying hats. Maybe they'll do unconnected challenge levels without any narrative or something, but I don't think that's in line with what they want the game to be.

Ink Asylum
04-20-2011, 12:31 PM
Ugh, I said I didn't write that to hate on Valve, I know they've added content to other games but I think that adding levels to a game like Portal 2 is different than adding levels to multiplayer games like L4D or TF2. I wouldn't be mad at Valve if they add hats and don't add levels because I don't expect levels and I'm not buying hats. Maybe they'll do unconnected challenge levels without any narrative or something, but I don't think that's in line with what they want the game to be.

They'll figure something out, I'm sure. I also don't see why they would be so opposed to narrative-less levels that they'd release nothing instead. As long as you have GLaDOS tossing out the one-liners I don't think anyone will complain if the levels take place in a narrative limbo.

Also, if you finished the coop campaign you'll know there's definitely narrative potential for new levels.

The mere presence of the Robot store is strong evidence that more levels are on the way. The co-op campaign is great but it has limited replay value. If they are expecting people to buy a bunch of hats and skins they're going to need to regularly provide new levels to bring people back to the multiplayer.

violent
04-20-2011, 12:31 PM
Ugh, I said I didn't write that to hate on Valve, I know they've added content to other games but I think that adding levels to a game like Portal 2 is different than adding levels to multiplayer games like L4D or TF2. I wouldn't be mad at Valve if they add hats and don't add levels because I don't expect levels and I'm not buying hats. Maybe they'll do unconnected challenge levels without any narrative or something, but I don't think that's in line with what they want the game to be.

1. There is nothing wrong with additional content. I'm with you on that.

2. Why make yourself disappointed by making assumptions with no evidence?

Savok
04-20-2011, 12:44 PM
It's also how long it takes to beat L4D's campaigns at a snail's pace, as well as any of the HL Episodes.

Shortage of content is becoming a Valve standard feature. I'm very glad I didn't preorder.

This'll wait for the Steam sale I think, just like all of Valve's games do lately.
You're the last person I expected to be involved in this bullshit. You've got the single player, the co-op, possibly the Razer Hydra levels if Razer ever actually sell the thing and whatever else Valve is up to. Not to mention it's quite replayable to find all the little secrets and easter eggs and for sheer enjoyment, of which there is much.

To top it off, the game's a technological marvel and the wonderful bastards hid most of it away unlike some asshole devs who think we want to see them waving their dicks all day.

MagGnome
04-20-2011, 01:06 PM
The game is chock full of secrets and easter eggs. I've found a few already, and I'm sure I missed some.

TheKeck
04-20-2011, 01:22 PM
A co-worker's son's friends who are "hardcore gamers" let him know that "hardcore gamers" are not interested in/impressed with Portal 2. Good to know the state of things. :rolleyes:

Savok
04-20-2011, 01:35 PM
Civilization is so fucking screwed...

Gorvi
04-20-2011, 01:46 PM
A co-worker's son's friends who are "hardcore gamers" let him know that "hardcore gamers" are not interested in/impressed with Portal 2. Good to know the state of things. :rolleyes:
Of course not, the guns don't actually kill anyone......

muddi900
04-20-2011, 01:51 PM
I think people are forgetting that L4D was supported 2 years after release with new content. TF2 is still supported. I have hope that Portal 2 will be two. Then again, there are always mods (http://www.portalgamemaps.com/index.cfm?pg=1&sid=38).

J Arcane
04-20-2011, 01:54 PM
And how about Portal 1? And how much free content has been added to the Half-Life games?

I think people are overestimating the amount of additional support Valve provides for single player games.

violent
04-20-2011, 01:57 PM
And how about Portal 1? And how much free content has been added to the Half-Life games?

I think people are overestimating the amount of additional support Valve provides for single player games.

The single player games don't get much. The multiplayer titles get plenty. Two sides to the same coin. Trick is not to pick one side and run with it.

Ink Asylum
04-20-2011, 02:00 PM
Except that Portal 2 isn't just a single-player experience. Plus they've said they're going to do DLC with more details to come post-launch.

TheKeck
04-20-2011, 02:49 PM
And how about Portal 1? And how much free content has been added to the Half-Life games?

I think people are overestimating the amount of additional support Valve provides for single player games.
Perhaps not all that much, but they did retrofit achievements into some of the games, I believe, and add the whole radio finding thing into Portal, for starters.

MagGnome
04-20-2011, 02:52 PM
They've added new graphical effects into HL2, for example.

Shieldmaiden
04-20-2011, 02:54 PM
Personally, I do have an issue with the game's length, or at least the price for the game given the length. It's an excellent game, but there will be plenty of other excellent games released this year that pack in two, three or even more times as much content for the same price. I'd rather have a good short game than a bad long one, but I'll take a good long game over a good short game. If I had enough money to fill my gaming time with new games, I doubt it'd bother me at all, but until then, value for money is a factor for me.

violent
04-20-2011, 03:03 PM
And how about Portal 1? And how much free content has been added to the Half-Life games?

I think people are overestimating the amount of additional support Valve provides for single player games.

Take 2:

You're making it sound like "free" is the indicator of support in this case. I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that's misworded.

As for single player content, those are usually called expansion packs. They came out with quite a few for the original Half-Life and 2 for Half-Life 2. Unless you mean hats and stuff for single player, then you'd have a point.




Horse armor.

J Arcane
04-20-2011, 04:47 PM
Take 2:

You're making it sound like "free" is the indicator of support in this case. I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that's misworded.

As for single player content, those are usually called expansion packs. They came out with quite a few for the original Half-Life and 2 for Half-Life 2. Unless you mean hats and stuff for single player, then you'd have a point.




Horse armor.
Free is a measure of support when we're discussing the value per dollar of the game as released. Paid expansion packs don't improve the value of the current product from a dollar/playtime point of view. If I have to expend additional funds to expand the experience of the current game, then the value for money has changed because now the game has become more expensive to match the new content.

People are suggesting an assumed measure of future free content and using that to justify the cost of the game as released.

This is the very same argument, I might add, that was used on the one hand to defend Left 4 Dead's paucity of content upon release, then flipped around and used to bash people over the head about their "entitlement" for expecting said content.

I am simply doing as those same people suggested: I am judging the value of the game solely on the state of release, because as you point out, it is unlikely that unpaid expansion material is inbound for a singleplayer game given past record of Valve's games.

My judgement is that the amount of content on offer at release is not worth the current full asking price. Much like L4D I will probably wait until it is closer to the $20 mark, at which point I will buy it, play it, and enjoy it. And I will enjoy it no less than I would today, and have gotten far better value for money to boot.

Widgetcraft
04-20-2011, 05:11 PM
Admittedly, I'm very much liking Portal 2, but I'm not about to give it or any other game a free pass. It does seem like many games as of late are starting to have very short campaigns or gameplay, yet they charge $60 for them. Does it drop what I'd review it at, sure, somewhat, as that's only one factor. I'm not liking how much shorter games are getting, yet the cost stays the same. This just seems to me to be another example of this trend in gaming.

I don't see how you can call it short. By the time I'm finished with the single-player game, I will have dumped eight hours into it, and then there is a 4-5 hour co-op game on top of that (and it's not half-assed, it has it's own characters, some cool new mechanics, and even it's own GLaDOS clips). That's around 13 hours of gameplay. Plus a commentary mode that I'm going to play through. Plus the likely chance of free DLC. It's all good, too; you won't find a more well made single-player game.

I don't understand how anyone can criticize the content of this game. It's got more than most big budget games today, and it's of significantly higher quality.

J Arcane
04-20-2011, 05:13 PM
I don't understand how anyone can criticize the content of this game. It's got more than most big budget games today, and it's of significantly higher quality.

If your friends jumped off a bridge, would you do it too?

kyrieee
04-20-2011, 05:15 PM
Oh come on, length doesn't have mean that much.
I'd buy Max Payne over Dragon Age any day even though the latter is 10 to 20 times longer.

Ink Asylum
04-20-2011, 05:24 PM
People are suggesting an assumed measure of future free content and using that to justify the cost of the game as released.

Actually, I don't think I've seen anyone do that.

The cost value discussion started when Fitbabits said this:

Four or five hours for $60. Didn't Homefront's campaign take that long, and wasn't it absolutely hammered because of it?

I introduced a tangent when I said the following:

I agree. Of course I want more puzzles, but that would've meant messing with the flow of the story.

If Valve follow through on their promise to support Portal 2 post-release the way they have TF2 and L4D we'll get more puzzles and the campaign will remain well-paced.

After that point the discussion diverged into two parallel topics.

That wasn't an attempt to justify the cost of the game as released. I already think it's a $60 game even if we never get any free DLC. I was mentioning how more puzzles in the regular campaign would have messed up the story flow.

J Arcane
04-20-2011, 05:30 PM
Plus the likely chance of free DLC.

I think people are forgetting that L4D was supported 2 years after release with new content. TF2 is still supported. I have hope that Portal 2 will be two. Then again, there are always mods.

Think about all the free campaigns released for L4D and L4D2. Think about TF2 sans the optional store. Sure they will likely sell stuff in the store for those who want the items but can't be bothered to grind, but assuming there would be no additional content released is biased assumption as their multiplayer titles have received plenty of content. Plenty.

Even after the Mann Co store launched Valve has continued releasing new TF2 maps, contents and features for free. I don't know why you think this won't happen for Portal 2.

Except that Portal 2 isn't just a single-player experience. Plus they've said they're going to do DLC with more details to come post-launch.

It sure looks an awful lot to me like people are assuming there's going to be more content coming.

Ink Asylum
04-20-2011, 06:04 PM
It sure looks an awful lot to me like people are assuming there's going to be more content coming.

Yes, we are, but all those quotes except the first are from a separate discussion than the one about the value of the game disc as is. A discussion just about the likelihood of free DLC.

But looking through the thread I do also see that Savok made a passing reference to possible DLC in a value discussion, too.

Most people have been defending the game strictly on its current state, though.

violent
04-20-2011, 07:02 PM
It sure looks an awful lot to me like people are assuming there's going to be more content coming.

And you're assuming the contrary. I see no difference between the two parties.

J Arcane
04-20-2011, 07:19 PM
And you're assuming the contrary. I see no difference between the two parties.
I'm making a judgement based on what is actually present, as opposed to theoretical content that is not proven to exist. I didn't say it would or wouldn't be coming, though you're right that I think, as you pointed out, that precedent makes it unlikely.

Choosing to purchase or not purchase a product based on what is actually contained within the box seems like sound reasoning to me.

Choosing to purchase it based on material that is not present that one simply assumes will be coming, seems like recipe for disappointment, as some folks may be familiar with from Left 4 Dead.

violent
04-20-2011, 07:21 PM
You're judging others while making excuses for yourself. Nothing more.

J Arcane
04-20-2011, 07:31 PM
You're judging others while making excuses for yourself. Nothing more.
Are you even capable of having a conversation without twisting it into self-aggrandizing bullshit?

violent
04-20-2011, 07:50 PM
Don't worry about me, I'm good. Ask yourself how its going.

Akion-Totocha
04-20-2011, 08:15 PM
As for the tutorial... An article in a gaming mag said that they wanted everyone to play P2, with you. Your girlfriend, (no)your mother, your gran (why are all these women?) But I don't know about how much it works as I'm waiting for the UK xbox version. Released on the 21st. D:

Mot Wakorb
04-20-2011, 09:27 PM
I don't see how you can call it short. By the time I'm finished with the single-player game, I will have dumped eight hours into it, and then there is a 4-5 hour co-op game on top of that (and it's not half-assed, it has it's own characters, some cool new mechanics, and even it's own GLaDOS clips). That's around 13 hours of gameplay. Plus a commentary mode that I'm going to play through. Plus the likely chance of free DLC. It's all good, too; you won't find a more well made single-player game.

I don't understand how anyone can criticize the content of this game. It's got more than most big budget games today, and it's of significantly higher quality.

I'm used to 20-30 hour games of old, if you will. As I've grown older, I've seen cost go up, but length of game go down. Now, I know that isn't the greatest measure, as some games add bullshit things in to add time to the playtime, however, there's a certain "value proposition" now for me as I grow older. My time is short and I find that I like games of certain types now - ones I can jump in and out of, and ones that last a really, really long time because I get more bang for my buck. It's purely anecdotal and personal preference, but certain things like commentary mode don't do it for me - I don't like that stuff much in DVDs, and I don't need it in my games. It's a reason I don't purchase "director's cut" or special edition games. Just not important to my experience.

I need to make this clear to you, I find the game entertaining. It's well done in every way, writing, graphics, sound, ambience, everything but the length for me. The sweet spot for me (without bullshit fluff) is around 20 hours at $60. I don't blame the "I'll wait for the Steam sale" crowd at all for waiting for the price to come down on what people view as too short of a game.

Let it also be known - the game may have great co-op (and I will find out with this game), but there are many times that I just don't sync up with people due to time constraints to play co-op games. It's a fact of life for me, so 8 hours in the single-player may be all that I get a chance to play. That's another factor of it - sometimes, I don't have the time to get a full experience because of life. It doesn't make my opinion wrong, just different.

Chimpbot
04-20-2011, 09:45 PM
I'm used to 20-30 hour games of old, if you will. As I've grown older, I've seen cost go up, but length of game go down. Now, I know that isn't the greatest measure, as some games add bullshit things in to add time to the playtime, however, there's a certain "value proposition" now for me as I grow older.

I find this argument to be ultimately rather amusing, simply because it's not entirely accurate.

The "games of old" you're referring to are really only a generation or two old; yes, these titles were "longer", but often times were padded with repetitive gameplay, silly difficulty or unnecessary mechanics such as grinding. Hell, even levels were designed to pad game length. Take God of War for example; the levels were laid out in such a way that, if empty, it would take roughly 10 minutes to get from beginning to end. From there, they add enemies, QTEs, bosses and the like to pad out the amount of time it takes to physically get from Point A to Point B. Suddenly, that 10 minutes worth of real estate is suddenly padded out to 40 or 50 minutes; compound that over the course of an entire game and suddenly that 20-30 hour length starts to feel a little artificial.

The real games of old, the NES- and SNES-era games, were by and large able to be beaten in an afternoon. Sure, there were a number of exceptions to this...but a rather large portion of games from these earlier generations could be tackled in one sitting. Hell, you can get from Contra's title screen to end credits in 11 minutes if you're good enough.

While modern games are shorter than they were a generation or two ago, I feel they're much tighter and more concise experiences overall. Aside from some exploration and simply walking around, Arkham Asylum, for example, didn't feel very padded out. It didn't feel like sections were designed to take X or Y number of minutes to get through.

I'd much rather play a tighter, concise 8-12 hour game than some 20-hour game filled with padding and design choices made to stretch out the number of hours so the game can be called "long".

Mot Wakorb
04-20-2011, 10:15 PM
I find this argument to be ultimately rather amusing, simply because it's not entirely accurate.

The "games of old" you're referring to are really only a generation or two old; yes, these titles were "longer", but often times were padded with repetitive gameplay, silly difficulty or unnecessary mechanics such as grinding. Hell, even levels were designed to pad game length. Take God of War for example; the levels were laid out in such a way that, if empty, it would take roughly 10 minutes to get from beginning to end. From there, they add enemies, QTEs, bosses and the like to pad out the amount of time it takes to physically get from Point A to Point B. Suddenly, that 10 minutes worth of real estate is suddenly padded out to 40 or 50 minutes; compound that over the course of an entire game and suddenly that 20-30 hour length starts to feel a little artificial.

The real games of old, the NES- and SNES-era games, were by and large able to be beaten in an afternoon. Sure, there were a number of exceptions to this...but a rather large portion of games from these earlier generations could be tackled in one sitting. Hell, you can get from Contra's title screen to end credits in 11 minutes if you're good enough.

While modern games are shorter than they were a generation or two ago, I feel they're much tighter and more concise experiences overall. Aside from some exploration and simply walking around, Arkham Asylum, for example, didn't feel very padded out. It didn't feel like sections were designed to take X or Y number of minutes to get through.

I'd much rather play a tighter, concise 8-12 hour game than some 20-hour game filled with padding and design choices made to stretch out the number of hours so the game can be called "long".

Like I said. Anecdotal. I also said "not the bullshit games that pad to add time". It's in the context of my post, and I get what you're saying.

As for NES/SNES era, you're right, those games went fast. But games in the PS era like Resident Evil, Parasite Eve, various others - they didn't. Those are games I had fun with that never felt padded or too short. Again, I'm going for value versus time - obviously, the game has to be fun to be worth my time, but there are games that while they're "tighter", feel like they're over far too fast and that takes away something for me. It makes me feel duped into buying a game at $60 that didn't last as long as I thought it should have, and far too often as is the case these days, is nothing more than a setup for a sequel rather than going much, much more in depth than they could.

The above mentioned is also why I have a tendency to shy away from theatre movies - I don't feel that generally (with some exceptions, obviously), $10 is good enough for 2 hours of my time. It's far too expensive - I tend to sit on the "I'll wait for netflix" or "I'll rent it". It's really a preference change as I've gotten older and wiser with my dollars. I can choose to buy games further out that're fun but aren't worth my instant $60 for a lower price, or I can choose to buy now and possibly be disappointed that the game was entirely too short (in my opinion).

Banacek
04-20-2011, 10:29 PM
I liked Portal 2 so much I'm going to do myself a great service and not talk about it online. Have fun!

muddi900
04-20-2011, 10:39 PM
And how about Portal 1? And how much free content has been added to the Half-Life games?

I think people are overestimating the amount of additional support Valve provides for single player games.

Yes but even Half-life had cosmetic updates long after release. I do think that comparing it to is unfair, as the first game was a minor distraction that became a runaway success. Even that had the retcon update.

MagGnome
04-21-2011, 05:26 AM
Yes but even Half-life had cosmetic updates long after release. I do think that comparing it to is unfair, as the first game was a minor distraction that became a runaway success. Even that had the retcon update.

I pointed that out, but apparently significant graphical updates don't count?

Besides, as many have ALSO pointed out, Portal 2 is not a "single player only" game like the Half-Life series. Yet that's gone ignored as well.

I also find it strange that some are continually referring to Portal 2 as a $60 game, when it was $45 (or less) on the PC, and several retailers sold the console versions for less as well. If you paid $60, that's your own fault.


I liked Portal 2 so much I'm going to do myself a great service and not talk about it online. Have fun!

That's a damn fine idea.

Ink Asylum
04-21-2011, 06:22 AM
Yes but even Half-life had cosmetic updates long after release. I do think that comparing it to is unfair, as the first game was a minor distraction that became a runaway success. Even that had the retcon update.

Good point! The radio update essentially added new puzzles to all of the lab levels.

MagGnome
04-21-2011, 07:19 AM
Good point! The radio update essentially added new puzzles to all of the lab levels.

Liar! Everyone knows that Valve has never released free content for a single player game, ever. :p