Have you given up on Heroes?

[J'onn J'onnz]

TIME FOR SOME NERD RAGE MOTHERFUCKER.
I know a lot of us were ready to abandon ship after the second anti climatic season finale. But for those who stayed on board for Season 3, are you ready to give up?
There are plenty of reasons to be embarrassed for liking or having liked the show. These reasons are include, but are by no means limited to:
***SPOILERS BELOW***

A majority of the actors on this show couldn't act their way out of a goddamn paper bag (especially Milo and Hayden).
They killed D.L. the only cool character in his family in the most pointless way, instead of just having him die from the injuries he sustained in the season 1 finale.
Remember that Irish barmaid left int the future (that likely no longer exists)? Yeah, neither does Peter.
Hiro has had ZERO character development, although this has helped him remain one of the few bearable characters.
"Hey we'll do something smart and kill off our most annoying AND USELESS character because the fans hate her!.......SO WE CAN BRING THE SAME BITCH BACK TO PLAY THE ALMOST AS ANNOYING LONG LOST 3RD SISTER WE JUST PULLED OUT OF OUR ASSES!"
Sylars reformation is hilarious, he went from power hungry murderer to a pussy ass mommas boy in the span of 3 episodes, growing an absolutely unbelievable attachment to a mother that gave him to a crazed evangelist.
Revealing that Sylar couldn't kill Claire "even if he wanted to" makes the whole first season seem like a big fucking joke.
They wrote out Micah and Monicah in an amazingly lazy way.
The first several Mohinder scenes this season were almost shot for shot from the Jeff Goldblum's Fly. Only they managed to make it shit.
Adam Monroe, not only the best thing from season 2, but one of the best characters on the show was brought back for 3 minutes over the span of 2 episodes before being unceremoniously killed off by a character whose continued survival is yet another terrible plot device.
Peter is an idiot. He has every power under the sun, yet he has NEVER DONE ANYTHING BENEFICIAL. Think about it! He has actually come closer to destroying the world than he ever has to saving it. He has never actually done anything helpful for anyone, he just gets that stupid look on his face, you know the one where he looks like a deer about to get hit by a car and inexplicably starts hyperventilating, almost as if he's being strangled by his terrible dialogue.


Okay...I need to stop or I'll go all day, because that's not even half of the things wrong with this show.
Heroes always had great potential, but now it has been undeniably squandered.
The long and short of it is that I'm done with Heroes. I know they just announced that Loeb was canned (http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/herocomplex/2008/11/fallen-heroes-j.html) so hopefully they'll hire someone who can properly write things that aren't solely Batman stories drawn by Tim Sale.
Maybe if the new direction of the show improves I'll check it out, until then, fuck you Heroes.

"Now I know what all the power feels like, now I'm the most special!"-Peter Petrelli
Yes you are Peter...yes you are.

[c0m3d14n]

it was a steady decline after season one which i enjoyed very much, i stopped watching season 3 a few episodes ago and i dont regret it after hearing how the story continued from a friend who still watches

[Sandman]

The show's main problem is that it takes itself too seriously.

[Smoof]

Yeah, it's pretty terrible. I think I watched the second or third episode and then stopped completely and just deleted it straight off my DVR without bothering.

[muddi900]

I too stopped watching a few episodes ago. You know you guys can watch something awesome like Supernatural, instead of bitching about this.

[Jeffool]

It's not an Iron Man or Batman TV show, it's Dynasty with repetitive super-powers.

[DangerousDaze]

Wow, I'm the only one who still watches apparently. Only seen the first few eps of season 3 yet and it's getting a bit dull now, but not enough to switch off entirely. Yet.

[Heresyte]

I continue to watch it, but I feel like I'm only doing that to see how lame it will get. And for the occasional Kristen Bell because maybe I love her.

[Jeffool]

Oh DDaze, I still watch it. I'm just saying it's not what I hoped it would be.

[Savok]

I gave up halfway through the first season. It was just so mind shatteringly tedious.

[Stmfuller]

um.
I've been disappointed in it since like the first two episodes of season one. So, I watch it off and on with my wife (who is a huge fan).
My problem is nothing ever happens. There's no politics with the world knowing they have powers, no evil league of evil, nobody has banded together in any sort of permanent way, and they keep coming up with really lame powers.
It's a show with a great overall ideas and lazy writers who can't see what their potential is. The show has been mostly a failure in my eyes and will likely be canceled before they ever get to finish/wrap everything up.

[Generation ABXY]

I haven't seen last night's episode yet, but given what I have so far, I think it's safe to say this will probably be my last season...unless they do something truly daring. (I doubt they will, but still...)

Show had potential, though, so it's a shame to think they've so squandered it.

[Narradisall]

I still watch, and the spoiler about Adam was a bit of a downer since his one of the few characters I do like.

I watch it because it's such a joke now, like when I go to see a bad horror film, not to scare me but because its so stupid its amusing.

Even if it survives to another season I won't watch it anymore, they murdered a promising premise for a show.

[BabyJesus]

I still watch, but I'm a few episodes behind. I was watching on my xbox which is in for service.

I watch mainly because Ali Larter is so freaking hot though.

[Telefrog]

I watch mainly because Ali Larter is so freaking hot though.

This is the sad truth. I watch for all the eyecandy. Hayden, Kristen, Ali, heck even Claire's biological mother is hot.

[wyeast]

My interested faded during season 2 when it felt like the storyline was wandering adrift. :(

[Harv]

Too many plots going at once, too many contradictions.

Jeph Loeb is a crap writer. He has proven that by making a terrific comic franchise into a mockery of itself (that being the Ultimates) in the span of a few issues. I'm not sure how he still gets work. Good that they fired him.

Get Grant Morrison or Mark Millar or Geoff Johns to work on that Heroes show and you might see something decent come out of it.

[Everyone vs Dinosaurs]

I'm glad I never watched this. It always just seemed phony to me.

[muddi900]

Jeph Loeb fired from Heroes... (http://tv.ign.com/articles/926/926321p1.html)

[Commissar Rob]

Wow, judging from the replies I'm glad I never really got into it. My wife watched the first season but didn't keep up with it after that. At least now I know not to get her the box sets...

[Vanifae]

The show really lacks direction, they reuse the same plots, and they have added way too many characters. I agree D.L. dying like he did was pretty pointless, I find alot of the the new characters to be regurgitated versions of old characters.

The bit about Sylar and Claire did make the whole Cheerleader thing pretty pointless from Season One... along with his reformation, just too hokey for me. It's like they are trying to be Lost but try to keep the Superhero vibe and it all get's lost in translation.

[TheFlyingOrc]

It's amazing that a show with a character as awesome as Hiro manages to be written so poorly.

[DiBiddilyBop]

I made it about 4 episodes into the third season. Which reminds me, I need to delete it off my DVR recording list...

[DoctorFinger]

(moved this to SP&S)

I still watch, but I'm no longer enthralled by it. The repetitive powers don't bug me that much. What gets my goat is the rampant stupidity amongst all the major characters. Look at how Mohinder or Peter act; they're the dumbest people of all time, and it drives me crazy.

The writers are also way, way too dependent on the whole future warning crutch. The first season, where Hiro's jaunt to the near future drove the action was cool. But they just do it over, and over again. Let the characters see what's happening in the present and use that to move the story along.

[Savok]

Get Grant Morrison or Mark Millar or Geoff Johns to work on that Heroes show and you might see something decent come out of it.
No, fuck no and maybe if only for all the nods it'd have to weird silver age shit.

[KingGorilla]

I am done, I got back from the gym yesterday and it never occurred that I should watch Heroes; I fired up Life on Huluan wrote my Fallout rave. What irks me is that, completely made up, it seems Heroes is killing Chuck. Both are losing viewers at a steady pace, Monday on NBC is a graveyard right now.

[biosc1]

I watched the first 3 episodes of the first season but failed to like any of the characters. I was hoping for the same feeling I got with Lost...a show I wasn't sure I would like, but a show that would draw me in with characters that I liked.

[Maskatron]

My backlog of actually good TV programming is too long for me to care about this show.

[TheKeck]

I'm still holding on. My wife gave up before the last episode, though.

[Lint of Death]

I like this show a lot. I enjoy most of the characters, especially Matt Parkman, Sylar, Ando, Nathan, Elle, Mohinder, HRG and Claire's stepmom. I actually like Peter, too, despite his apparent stupidity because that side of him is just hilarious, and I thought he was great in Eris Quod Sum (the latest ep). Taking away his powers has been the best thing that could have happened to set him straight :p

Sylar is not and has never been a wuss. edit: As I see it, he's so willing to turn and help his mom because he sees this as an opportunity for redemption after his horrific experience murdering who he believed to be his mother in the first season. Remember, even in the first season he thought he was ultimately destined for heroism (stopping Peter the bomb).

There are some characters I wish they hadn't done away with, but since I enjoy the show so much it's not worth stopping just because Ted, D.L., and Adam are dead.

edit: I really liked Knox in his first couple episodes, but he's become just so fucking one-dimensional since then that I can scarcely believe what happened. Maybe now that Loeb's gone that'll be fixed.

[Lint of Death]

OK, I'll stop editing my post. The suggestion that Hiro has had no character development is utterly absurd. Nearly every step of his journey in every single season has been his transformation into a hero and understanding the consequences of his actions and assorted other lessons. I think that he, Ted, Matt Parkman and Sylar are the best-developed characters in the series.

[J'onn J'onnz]

OK, I'll stop editing my post. The suggestion that Hiro has had no character development is utterly absurd. Nearly every step of his journey in every single season has been his transformation into a hero and understanding the consequences of his actions and assorted other lessons. I think that he, Ted, Matt Parkman and Sylar are the best-developed characters in the series.

In your previous post you said Sylars change was believable because he wanted redemption, the point is that this is ENTIRELY out of character. In season 1 we see him killing all those powered people because he had a "hunger", but it's obvious he likes doing it, he took great pleasure in causing people pain and killing them, which is obvious from the way he chose to kill them. Even in season 2, he had no power and therefore, no hunger. Yet he still killed about 3-4 people, because he was evil! Any chance Sylar had at redemption died when he killed his adoptive mother, finding out she wasn't his real mom wouldn't change a thing (In fact it should've fucked him up worse).

As for Hiro, you have got to be kidding! Remember Charlie? That girl he was head over heels for in season 1, who he spent 6 months with to try and save? Or that girl from feudal Japan in season 2? Or his father being killed as a result of his tampering with the past? I'm not saying the guy should go all future Hiro, but he should be a hell of a lot closer than he is.

[Rilav]

I gave up watching this show halfway through the first episode

my thought process was

"hrm, interesting.... hrm, over reaching plot points in the first episode? I didn't like it when Alias did this after being really good for a season, why do they not learn?"

[Lint of Death]

In your previous post you said Sylars change was believable because he wanted redemption, the point is that this is ENTIRELY out of character. In season 1 we see him killing all those powered people because he had a "hunger", but it's obvious he likes doing it, he took great pleasure in causing people pain and killing them, which is obvious from the way he chose to kill them. Even in season 2, he had no power and therefore, no hunger. Yet he still killed about 3-4 people, because he was evil! Any chance Sylar had at redemption died when he killed his adoptive mother, finding out she wasn't his real mom wouldn't change a thing (In fact it should've fucked him up worse).
It's important to remember what Sylar used to be. He was a kind and calm person who fixed watches, and his mother constantly pushed him to be something more, that he was capable of greatness. Sylar did relapse in season 1 and sought to change his murderous ways; after he accidentally killed her he became convinced of two possibilities: it was his Darwinist right to blow up New York; or that he could use his power to stop it from happening. In the final battle he believes that he is the true hero.

For various reasons, especially after his own mother tried to kill him, he simply did not value individual human life anymore, though. Sylar spent a lot of time in season 1 struggling with his identity and purpose, and now he has an opportunity to make up for killing his stepmom, which is psychologically putting him back on course for actually thinking about what he is doing.

Also, to bolster my argument as to the strength of his character development, season one shows quite clearly the path Sylar has taken since discovering his power through flashbacks with Mohinder's father.

As for Hiro, you have got to be kidding! Remember Charlie? That girl he was head over heels for in season 1, who he spent 6 months with to try and save? Or that girl from feudal Japan in season 2? Or his father being killed as a result of his tampering with the past? I'm not saying the guy should go all future Hiro, but he should be a hell of a lot closer than he is.
Why do you think that Hiro should become such a bitter person? Future Hiro was mad at everything and had little qualms about killing people; he was still on the side of 'good' as we see it, but he was a very dark character as a result of the murder of Ando.
Meanwhile, present Hiro has learned quite a lot. He is far braver than he used to be and thinks much more on the consequences of his actions and his powers. In the past two seasons he's learned about seeing and interacting with the past, and now he is learning how to cope with knowing the likely future.

[J'onn J'onnz]

It's important to remember what Sylar used to be. He was a kind and calm person who fixed watches, and his mother constantly pushed him to be something more, that he was capable of greatness. Sylar did relapse in season 1 and sought to change his murderous ways; after he accidentally killed her he became convinced of two possibilities: it was his Darwinist right to blow up New York; or that he could use his power to stop it from happening. In the final battle he believes that he is the true hero. For various reasons, especially after his own mother tried to kill him, he simply did not value human life anymore.

Sylar spent a lot of time in season 1 struggling with his identity and purpose, and now he has an opportunity to make up for killing his stepmom, which is psychologically putting him back on course for actually thinking about what he is doing.

Also, to bolster my argument as to the strength of his character development, season one shows quite clearly the path Sylar has taken since discovering his power through flashbacks with Mohinder's father.


Why do you think that Hiro should become such a bitter person? Future Hiro was mad at everything and had little qualms about killing people; he was still on the side of 'good' as we see it, but he was a very dark character as a result of the murder of Ando.
Meanwhile, present Hiro has learned quite a lot. He is far braver than he used to be and thinks much more on the consequences of his actions and his powers.

Sylar said he was the hero because Peter turned out to be the bomb, it was said in a taunting way he didn't seriously think he was the hero, he was gonna kill all of them and blow up New York whether Peter blew or not. Yes Sylar was once a shy nice little guy, but one who still had a lot of emotional trauma. And the fact still stands that his development is season 2 is proof that hes inherently evil, with out his base power, and therefore without the hunger Sylar still proved to be a manipulator and murderer, Gabriel died with his mother, Sylar was the guy we saw in season 2, then somehow Gabriel came back in 3.

And I didn't say that Hiro should be emo or anything, but the fact is he lost two women he really loved and his father as a direct result of his time traveling, and he doen't even bring up missing or loving them. Same thing that happened with Nathan and his family, Parkman with his, and Micah and his cousin Monicah the writers are just fading once important characters and storylines so they can show off with more mediocre special effects, which for the most part was not what made season 1 popular.

Hiro has shown that he has not wised up at all since he disobeyed his late fathers wishes by opening that safe and setting in motion the events of season 3, he has also made zero progress in harnessing his powers. Hiro has not changed at all.
In the end it's a result of very poor writing and plotting.

[JayVe]

I have very little patience for TV. A friend tried to get me into this show (via DVD), but instead I got hooked on Firefly, followed by Buffy, followed by Angel. A year later and I'm out of Joss Wheadon stuff to watch. Oh well... more time for gaming.

[J'onn J'onnz]

I have very little patience for TV. A friend tried to get me into this show (via DVD), but instead I got hooked on Firefly, followed by Buffy, followed by Angel. A year later and I'm out of Joss Wheadon stuff to watch. Oh well... more time for gaming.

You made a much better decision friend. Angel and Firefly are among the the best tv has to offer imo, I;m sure Buffy good too, but I never really dug it like I did Angel.

[Cyndair]

At this point I'm going to ride it out until the end of the season. I've got too much invested in it and I'm curious to see if the show manages to redeem itself in any way. I still enjoy watching it for the most part but I do catch myself rolling my eyes at the attempted twists and turns a lot.

[JayVe]

You made a much better decision friend. Angel and Firefly are among the the best tv has to offer imo, I;m sure Buffy good too, but I never really dug it like I did Angel.

I'm of the belief that Firefly is possibly the best television that has ever been created. Anges started VERY slowly, with season 1 being almost all garbage... but it turns out to be so good. Buffy had its ups and downs, but was also fantastic, and often dealt with a lot more real issues and creativity than Angel did.

[Lint of Death]

Sylar said he was the hero because Peter turned out to be the bomb, it was said in a taunting way he didn't seriously think he was the hero, he was gonna kill all of them and blow up New York whether Peter blew or not. Yes Sylar was once a shy nice little guy, but one who still had a lot of emotional trauma. And the fact still stands that his development is season 2 is proof that hes inherently evil, with out his base power, and therefore without the hunger Sylar still proved to be a manipulator and murderer, Gabriel died with his mother, Sylar was the guy we saw in season 2, then somehow Gabriel came back in 3.
I can definitely see your perspective of his expressed interest in stopping Peter. I still don't see how any of this concludes his character has been poorly developed. After his mom tries and fails to kill him he loses all sympathy for human life and devotes himself to becoming stronger and, when he's captured by the company, recovering what he lost. A common thread between him and Mohinder - any of the original characters, really - is how poorly they can cope with the possibility of losing their powers.

Again, I don't think Gabriel's return is a bland 'somehow'. As you said, Gabriel's personality faced its final failure in season one when his home becomes his enemy. It's not like Gabriel's return has been instantaneous either. He worked with HRG for largely selfish reasons; when present Peter returned he still derived sadistic pleasure from it. The two events that push Gabriel back could be holding Claire's hand after gaining that super-detective power; and stopping Peter from killing their real mother.

And I didn't say that Hiro should be emo or anything, but the fact is he lost two women he really loved and his father as a direct result of his time traveling, and he doen't even bring up missing or loving them. Same thing that happened with Nathan and his family, Parkman with his, and Micah and his cousin Monicah the writers are just fading once important characters and storylines so they can show off with more mediocre special effects, which for the most part was not what made season 1 popular.

Hiro has shown that he has not wised up at all since he disobeyed his late fathers wishes by opening that safe and setting in motion the events of season 3, he has also made zero progress in harnessing his powers. Hiro has not changed at all.
In the end it's a result of very poor writing and plotting.
I agree with how annoying it is that they leave families behind. Matt Parkman's ex-wife was pregnant! Does he just not care about his child-to-be at all? That's not like him in the slightest, even if he's had to care for Molly. I remember seeing an interview with the actor of Nathan, and apparently season 2 had cut a touching scene with his separated family visiting him in the hospital at the end of the season. Nobody likes West, but he still just vanished from Claire's life as well.

As for Hiro developing his powers, I assert that he has. He needed to contend with the speedster and eventually figured out how to best her. In any case, developing his powers is precisely opposed to his development this season. With Usutu in "Somewhere in Africa", he's being deliberately taught to think about solving problems using just critical thinking. Hiro spent season one developing his powers, since then has been about their proper use and doing without them.

[5y1v4r]

Aw man, this thread depresses me because I absolutely loved season 1 of Heroes, and actually still rather liked season 2, and haven't gotten to watch any of 3 yet. I really want it to be good... should I even watch 3 or should I just hang on the the memory of how it started and not ruin it by watching the new season?

[Lint of Death]

Aw man, this thread depresses me because I absolutely loved season 1 of Heroes, and actually still rather liked season 2, and haven't gotten to watch any of 3 yet. I really want it to be good... should I even watch 3 or should I just hang on the the memory of how it started and not ruin it by watching the new season?

If you loved season 1 and even liked season 2, I believe you will definitely enjoy 3; I know I do! The third's a bit more of a return to the pacing of the first with far more sense of urgency. The episode next week will be in the past, back before the events of season 1.

[vuk]

Heroes has gone from a 'stop everything and watch' to a 'leave it on while playing [MMO] and wait for it to be cancelled' show for me.

After the last episode I realised there was no redemption.

[J'onn J'onnz]

Aw man, this thread depresses me because I absolutely loved season 1 of Heroes, and actually still rather liked season 2, and haven't gotten to watch any of 3 yet. I really want it to be good... should I even watch 3 or should I just hang on the the memory of how it started and not ruin it by watching the new season?

Skip it, unless you really need something to laugh at in a so bad it's good way. I wish I'd stopped at season one, because it's pretty obvious that it's the last season they actually plotted the entire arc out before hand.

[muddi900]

Aw man, this thread depresses me because I absolutely loved season 1 of Heroes, and actually still rather liked season 2, and haven't gotten to watch any of 3 yet. I really want it to be good... should I even watch 3 or should I just hang on the the memory of how it started and not ruin it by watching the new season?

Stay away. I have seen Indian Soap Operas with more coherent plot and better writing.

[J'onn J'onnz]

Stay away. I have seen Indian Soap Operas with more coherent plot and better writing.

And better music!
UAdsWtacwSs

[Lint of Death]

What's so incoherent about it? It all makes sense to me, insofar as the elements they've revealed :confused:

[J'onn J'onnz]

What's so incoherent about it? It all makes sense to me, insofar as the elements they've revealed :confused:

Are you just ignoring all the plot holes and character inconsistencies we've been pointing out?

[Lint of Death]

Are you just ignoring all the plot holes and character inconsistencies we've been pointing out?

I'm doing my best to ignore nothing; I just reread the thread and don't see a single plot hole mentioned. Anywhere. And we've discussed character inconsistencies already, which I for the most part have disagreed on the major parts. Numerous characters not thinking about their present/former families so much is sucky, but hopefully we'll see more of that in next week's episode since it goes back in time.

[CES]

I agree with how annoying it is that they leave families behind. Matt Parkman's ex-wife was pregnant! Does he just not care about his child-to-be at all? That's not like him in the slightest, even if he's had to care for Molly.

Word of God stated the kid wasnt his and that was the final thing that broke up his marriage.

[archon]

I loved Heroes season one and didn't even think season two was that bad. I enjoyed most of season two, actually. I've read every online comic up until this season started.
Season three has been bad to the point that I've stopped watching and will not watch again unless I hear of serious change going on with the show, which won't happen, despite them having fired two of the main writers. It's best to cancel Heroes and use the money wasted on it for better sci-fi TV.

It's very strange what happened to this show considering how much time they had to improve it from the first season. It's clear they had no long-term idea on where to go with it at all. Heroes has gotten worse in every way that Supernatural has gotten better this season.

[Lint of Death]

Word of God stated the kid wasnt his and that was the final thing that broke up his marriage.

OH! I had forgotten about that; they did say as much in the first season as I now recall.

MEGA-LATE EDIT: Oh, wait, no they didn't. It was suggested in the second season, but only in Parkman's father-induced nightmare which he was certain wasn't true. Looks like it was indeed 'Word of God' that decided the kid wasn't his.

Then again, I guess Parkman's life has been too busy of late to return to anything remotely normal :p
Also, the wiki just brought to light the interesting point Matt is now stronger with his power than his father was, since he was able to even fool Knox's sense of touch.

[Veregon]

All I'm saying is, if I was the puppet-master guy and I had Claire and her real mom in the same room, it'd have been a very different kind of party!

[Lint of Death]

All I'm saying is, if I was the puppet-master guy and I had Claire and her real mom in the same room, it'd have been a very different kind of party!

Heh, but then Claire would have been 'raped' twice in a single half-season and that'd be just overkill. Anyway they very strongly insinuated that the puppet master had already been doing that kind of hideous nastiness to Meredith.

[Elrik Murder]

I had a prior engagement and missed the 4th episode. Then I honestly forgot the show existed. Didn't even miss it this week. Now Dexter, on the other hand, I don't miss. That's great storytelling there.

[VerseD]

I stopped watching about halfway through season 2. It got really boring and tedious and seemed to be going nowhere.

[CES]

OH! I had forgotten about that; they did say as much in the first season as I now recall.

MEGA-LATE EDIT: Oh, wait, no they didn't. It was suggested in the second season, but only in Parkman's father-induced nightmare which he was certain wasn't true. Looks like it was indeed 'Word of God' that decided the kid wasn't his.

Then again, I guess Parkman's life has been too busy of late to return to anything remotely normal :p
Also, the wiki just brought to light the interesting point Matt is now stronger with his power than his father was, since he was able to even fool Knox's sense of touch.

Got to love producers who barely know where their own product is going. Chalk it up to another plot hole that they cant be bothered fixing.

[Sense Field]

You know...I still like the show...I know it's not as good as it once was...but lost went off track for a bit and got going again...I'm going to stick with it...see what happens with the new writers.

[5y1v4r]

Well I'm glad somebody still likes it... As a huuuge comic book nerd, I have a tendancy to forgive things in the show if they feel like comic book stuff. You gotta admit, a lot of inane stuff happens in superhero comics and most of the time you just roll with it. I spent most of season one going "oh man, that exact same thing happened in x-men a few years back! This is awesome!"
I guess I probably will watch season 3 if only to give it just a little more benefit of doubt.

[Widgetcraft]

I dropped the show fairly quickly into season 2. Maybe four of five episodes into it? Nothing happened in those four or five episodes, so I saw no point in continuing to watch it. The last straw was when I tuned in, and found myself dreading spending an hour on it when I could be listening to music, playing games, or even reading a forum.

[Slack3r78]

Never thought it was that compelling and it got worse from there.

[Heresyte]

It looks like there's a decent chance of Pushing Daisies getting cancelled, and Bryan Fuller said he would like to move back to Heroes if that happens. I'd rather Pushing Daisies doesn't get cancelled, but with Loeb out and Fuller in I would have hope for the series again. (Bryan Fuller is the creator of Dead Like Me and Pushing Daisies, and as far as Heroes goes he wrote the episode "Company Man")

[muddi900]

Bryan Fuller has had a shitty luck when it comes to his own shows. The problems with Dead Like me, The cancellation of Wonderfalls and now Pushing Daisies.

[Lint of Death]

That would be great to have Fuller back! :)

[Arphahat]

I dropped the show fairly quickly into season 2. Maybe four of five episodes into it? Nothing happened in those four or five episodes, so I saw no point in continuing to watch it. The last straw was when I tuned in, and found myself dreading spending an hour on it when I could be listening to music, playing games, or even reading a forum.

What got me during the second season has been mentioned a little already, but I feel I need to discuss it, too. Inconsistency with the powers drove me crazy. At the end, they have a vault they need to get into. Why not walk right fucking through it like you did earlier in the season? Why waste the time ripping it off the hinges?

The first season was OK, but it never went anywhere and the finale was anti-climatic crap. The whole thing is building excitement, but nothing ever happens. It is a crappy soap opera that incidentally has some super powers in it.

I didn't start watching season three, and after hearing from a friend and reading through here, I'm glad I didn't. Claire can't die? Really? WTF?! Hello! First season catch phrase "Save the cheerleader" ring any fucking bells?

Maybe they could add a bunch of new heroes and then forget about them? That is some good filler to get to the end of the season. Grrr...

Heroes is a big disappointment. So much potential but no direction.

[Widgetcraft]

Bryan Fuller has had a shitty luck when it comes to his own shows. The problems with Dead Like me, The cancellation of Wonderfalls and now Pushing Daisies.

Holy crap, I hadn't realized that Dead Like Me was somewhat successfully resurrected:

A direct-to-DVD movie has completed filming and the target release is 2009; depending on the movie's success, the series may be picked back up again.

Buy the damn DVD! :mad:

[Heresyte]

I didn't start watching season three, and after hearing from a friend and reading through here, I'm glad I didn't. Claire can't die? Really? WTF?! Hello! First season catch phrase "Save the cheerleader" ring any fucking bells?
I feel dirty defending Heroes, but this isn't a legitimate criticism. The idea behind "save the cheerleader" was actually "prevent Sylar from getting the cheerleader's powers". The idea was to change the timeline so that when Hiro stabs him at the end of the season he isn't able to heal. Claire's life or lack thereof was always irrelevant.

[Generation ABXY]

Bryan Fuller has had a shitty luck when it comes to his own shows. The problems with Dead Like me, The cancellation of Wonderfalls and now Pushing Daisies.

Geez, if we team him up with Wheedon, the studios might call before the two have even had an idea, just to let them know it’s been preemptively cancelled.

[Lint of Death]

I feel dirty defending Heroes, but this isn't a legitimate criticism. The idea behind "save the cheerleader" was actually "prevent Sylar from getting the cheerleader's powers". The idea was to change the timeline so that when Hiro stabs him at the end of the season he isn't able to heal. Claire's life or lack thereof was always irrelevant.

It's so comforting to know I'm not the only one who realizes that.

Also, it's not "power inconsistency". Their powers are strengthening or changing over time. Claire would have died in season 1. Now she's not just unkillable but she can't even feel pain. They have made it abundantly clear that her power is different now from what it was then.

As for 'walking straight through the vault door'? D.L. was the only character who could do that, and he's dead; and teleporting into something with unknown size and contents would be suicide.

[Arphahat]

It's so comforting to know I'm not the only one who realizes that.

Also, it's not "power inconsistency". Their powers are strengthening or changing over time. Claire would have died in season 1. Now she's not just unkillable but she can't even feel pain. They have made it abundantly clear that her power is different now from what it was then.

As for 'walking straight through the vault door'? D.L. was the only character who could do that, and he's dead; and teleporting into something with unknown size and contents would be suicide.

It seems like a pretty weak explanation. Honestly, the more likely answer is lazy and sloppy writing. The "save the cheerleader" motto can be retro-fitted with new reasoning, but at the time, it was clear that it was two-fold: stop Sylar from gaining the healing power and save Claire from death. If she wasn't going to be hurt by the attack, she wouldn't needed to have been "saved".

I agree that the powers are changing, but again I insist that it is inconsistent and poorly thought-out writing. An example of this explains how Peter could have easily walked through the vault.

Recall how Peter and his little friend escaped from the prison: he walked through the wall into the neighboring cell and then the two of them walked through the wall out of the complex. Peter bumped into DL during the season one finale, and they remembered then. Later, when he is trying to get into the vault, he wastes a butt-load of time ripping it off the hinges.

Dunno. Glad you like the show, but I'm done going back to my abuser in this relationship. ;)

Edit: I thought Sylar "fixed" Claire when he was taking her power, so that she wouldn't feel pain. That isn't them just getting stronger over time.

[Lint of Death]

It seems like a pretty weak explanation. Honestly, the more likely answer is lazy and sloppy writing. The "save the cheerleader" motto can be retro-fitted with new reasoning, but at the time, it was clear that it was two-fold: stop Sylar from gaining the healing power and save Claire from death. If she wasn't going to be hurt by the attack, she wouldn't needed to have been "saved".

I agree that the powers are changing, but again I insist that it is inconsistent and poorly thought-out writing. An example of this explains how Peter could have easily walked through the vault.

Recall how Peter and his little friend escaped from the prison: he walked through the wall into the neighboring cell and then the two of them walked through the wall out of the complex. Peter bumped into DL during the season one finale, and they remembered then. Later, when he is trying to get into the vault, he wastes a butt-load of time ripping it off the hinges.

Dunno. Glad you like the show, but I'm done going back to my abuser in this relationship. ;)

Edit: I thought Sylar "fixed" Claire when he was taking her power, so that she wouldn't feel pain. That isn't them just getting stronger over time.
Ah, good point. You're definitely right about Peter being able to phase through the vault. I would be honestly surprised if the thought hadn't occurred to the writers that Peter could do that without someone pointing it out, as much as I agree that pragmatically it seems like the obvious power option. Maybe they decided that Peter use telepathy because that power has been almost invariably associated with villainy? Beats me.

As for saving the cheerleader for season 1 purposes, I do not see why saving her life for its own sake was "clearly" a part of it. Yes, the characters thought it was important, but that's because most of them had no idea why she needed saving. It's true that she was the only one able to actually stop an exploding man, but fortunately Nathan had a change of heart and that was no longer really important. For purposes of 'saving the world' for other seasons, it simply doesn't apply anymore: future Hiro, who sent the message, came from a world where a man had exploded in New York. That was stopped.

Another suggestion: all that mattered was keeping Sylar from getting the power because without it at least he would have died in the explosion, preventing him from making the future a living Hell as President.

PS I just realized something. There was no way that Adam's plan was going to work with Peter at his side. Peter is immune to the virus and would be right there to stop Adam from doing anything apart from letting Peter destroy it. EDIT: I guess that's why they made it seem like Adam was going to try to sneak out with it, as Peter was distracted by conflict.