Budget HTPC

[Klunka]

Hey Everybody,

Trying to build a cheaper HTPC for my living room. This machine would be relegated to some DVR, Blu-Ray/DVD, music/picture/movie streaming. Essentially a replacement for my cable box and DVD player. Was wondering if anyone could suggest some ways to get the price down a little without really hampering my functionality.

http://secure.newegg.com/WishList/PublicWishDetail.aspx?WishListNumber=21729508

I've also never dealt with any form factor stuff, so I'm not even sure everything would fit into the case I have.

Appreciate any advice.

[DoctorFinger]

I would actually suggest going in a slightly different route. Instead of a full box HTPC, have you considered a mini/Atom PC (http://www.newegg.com/Store/SubCategory.aspx?SubCategory=309&name=Mini-Booksize-Barebone-Systems)? They're about the size of a book, and they're basically just a processor, a small SSD, a wireless card and some ports (usually a few USBs, an HDMI and some sort of audio connector)

Now it doesn't have an optical or storage drive on it (although you could connect USB drives to it), but if you're using it primarily for streaming and some lite web browsing, you won't need them. My brother has one and he loves it. All you'd really need to add is a wireless keyboard and mouse combo.

[LiquidRain]

He says he wants DVR functionality, which means he needs something with TV in and full Windows Media Centre support. Not going to happen without at least a single PCIe slot.

As long as he understands he can't get cable HDTV DVR functionality he should be OK, as far as I know.

As far as the form factor, make sure the expansion cards you do buy support low profile brackets and you'll be OK. I can't think of any way to cut further corners on that box if you want something cheaper. I usually recycle former desktops into servers and HTPCs for this very express purpose.

Make sure to measure the space you're fitting the HTPC into, and then look at the dimensions of the case on Newegg, before thinking it'll fit. You may have to pay up (yes it costs more) for a Mini-ITX solution. Most MicroATX cases are still up to 15" deep, which is quite long.

[LiquidRain]

As if on demand, Ars produces a HTPC guide (http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/guides/2010/12/htpc-guide-1.ars/) chock full of good information and advice.

[Banacek]

If you want to DVR and you have cable, you can get one of these:

http://www.cetoncorp.com/products.php

or else when they come out you can get one of these:

http://www.silicondust.com/products/hdhomerun/prime/

But, if you want to just get unencrypted cable or over the air signal shows, go with this:

http://www.silicondust.com/products/hdhomerun/atsc/

Both Silicondust solutions are ethernet driven, meaning no PCIe card needed.

EDIT: beaten to the punch...

[hunterx280]

As if on demand, Ars produces a HTPC guide (http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/guides/2010/12/htpc-guide-1.ars/) chock full of good information and advice.

I was coming here to post just that. As always, good advice Liquid.

[LiquidRain]

Ars Technica's advice is good. I just listen to smarter people than me. :)

[LiquidRain]

Something else to pursue:

Find a used or discounted/new/cheap Core 2 Duo system and kit it with the equipment you want to fit to it. You'll probably wind up with a better deal than that. Keep in mind that AMDs tend to run hotter and noisier than AMD systems.

It's too bad AMD's Fusion chips aren't out yet. They're almost tailor made for these situations.

[edit] something like this IdeaCentre (http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=6288758&Sku=T71-40411). Add your capture card and it's a much better system than the AMD rig!

[edit2] here's a snippet of a conversation I'm having with a friend that should give you an idea of the problems of running a DVR HTPC:

(15:08:26) LiquidRain: right now there's a guy trying to build a HTPC for sub-$500
(15:08:47) chandler: Oh, that's even *worse* for AMD.
(15:08:54) LiquidRain: Fortunately Ars has a great article up today I linked to, including a lot of talk about stand alone devices.
(15:09:11) LiquidRain: And yes I warned him about size, heat, noise, and that stand alone boxes may work better.
(15:09:43) LiquidRain: but the man's trying to build something for the absolute least amount of money and it's hard to beat AMD's prices
(15:10:03) LiquidRain: I'm going to also recommend him to fish for a used (or new/discounted) Core 2 Duo system
(15:11:25) LiquidRain: too bad Fusion isn't out yet
(15:12:50) chandler: If you don't need Flash content, an Atom D510 or D525 with Ion beats anything AMD has to offer.
(15:13:31) LiquidRain: He wants DVR functionality out of this HTPC
(15:13:58) LiquidRain: I've forgotten the Zacate/Ontario divide, but Atom's just a bit /too/ anemic for DVR use
(15:14:07) LiquidRain: the poster didn't even specify if he wants HDTV DVR functionality or SDTV
(15:14:20) chandler: Is it? I used to run the aforementioned Socket 754 system as a DVR...
(15:14:54) chandler: The only thing it choked on was decoding 1080i broadcast content, and that's a solved problem now.
(15:15:11) chandler: So I don't see why an Atom system with a tuner card wouldn't work.
(15:15:21) LiquidRain: Yes but, depending on capture card, a DVR may... well no shouldn't it just save the encoded content it gets directly from the air/cable?
(15:15:35) LiquidRain: For HDTV content
(15:15:39) chandler: Yeah, that's been my experience with windows media center
(15:15:48) LiquidRain: May still depend on the capture card if SDTV content is coming in....
(15:16:16) chandler: By SDTV you mean NTSC terrestrial? There's none of that left around here...
(15:16:48) LiquidRain: I have no idea what the guy's planning. He just said "DVR" and "HTPC" and put up a list of parts.
(15:17:06) LiquidRain: I have no idea what research he's done into his parts and if he knows what to expect from them.
(15:17:09) chandler: hard to work with that then
(15:17:12) LiquidRain: Agreed.

[Klunka]

Wow, this is way more information than I was expecting.

Reading over the Ars article right now. I've done a lot of research about hooking up my digital cable box to a TV Tuner card, and it's apparently not as simple as I was expecting. So I guess I still need to figure out the logistics of it.

I've seen that ceton card recommended lots of places, but that would double the price I have going here, so I'll have to hold off on that.

I'm thinking about dumping the DVR hope on this for now. It seems like an HDTV DVR HTPC adds a lot of headaches that a budget machine isn't worth.

These Atom chips sound exactly like what I should be looking at. Sound isn't a huge issue, but one that's too loud could be distracting.

[LiquidRain]

It's a lot of information because, as you pointed out, setting up a DVR HTPC is /anything/ but simple.

DVR functionality is extremely important to you if you have strict bandwidth limits, an aversion to BitTorrent, etc. or simply want DVR functionality at all.

Anything short of a full DVR HTPC and all you really need is a "dumb playback machine", which could easily be done with a Western Digital Live (go for the Plus if you want Netflix too) and a cheap NAS or your already existing desktop for storage.

You may find that the combination of a licensed DVR from your cable co. or an official TiVo (they're still around right?) with a dumb playback box like a WD Live may suit your purposes far better than the pain and expense of building your own HTPC.

Personally, I use a WD Live. It doesn't look fancy but it gets the job done very well. (if you restrict yourself to .avi and .mp4 movies you could even use a 360 or PS3 to do the playback)

[johnperkins21]

Personally, I use a WD Live. It doesn't look fancy but it gets the job done very well. (if you restrict yourself to .avi and .mp4 movies you could even use a 360 or PS3 to do the playback)
You don't even have to do that if you use PlayOn's MyMedia or PS3 Media Server. PlayOn uses VLC Media Player and its codecs to convert the video before sending to the PS3 or 360. It can stutter a bit on HD stuff because my PC isn't all that powerful, but for the most part it works very well.