View Full Version : Nintendo's Brilliant Marketing Continues: Wii Music
Despite a poor presentation (http://www.gametrailers.com/player/36388.html) at E3 2008 that annoyed many gamers and highlighted the inaccuracy of this new toy, Wii Music is the centerpiece of Nintendo's 2008 holiday season marketing.
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Nintendo is continuing with what has largely sold the console to non-traditional gamers, and Wii Music is perfect for this. The focus is on people playing a simple and easy looking game together in a way that looks somewhat active. Nintendo knows the strengths of it's console are it's accessibility, active controls, and the focus on playing together.
This marketing communicates these strengths beautifully. Notice the various types of people shown having fun playing in the commercial. This communicates to the audience that everyone can play, and they can play together. Nintendo may be the family-friendly console, but it's genius to turn the parents buying their consoles for their kids into game players themselves.
It is probably a no-brainer that Nintendo's Wii will continue to be sold out this holiday season with or without this excellent marketing. What marketing do you think Microsoft and Sony should do to encapsulate the main selling points of their consoles?
BLeeP
11-01-2008, 10:09 PM
Man, sometimes I see stuff that makes this game look lame, but then I see super awesome videos like this one:
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Has anyone one here picked this up yet?
Vanifae
11-01-2008, 10:41 PM
The Wii just prints fucking money.
Soccer moms are going to eat this up.
Xerxes
11-01-2008, 11:50 PM
Wii is the new Apple Jacks. I don't get it.
Vanifae
11-02-2008, 12:05 AM
Wii is the new Apple Jacks. I don't get it.
I don't get it either I played Super Smash Bros. and I still don't see what the hype was about.
mister slim
11-02-2008, 01:14 AM
If anyone is interested in Wii Music, Amazon is offering a $20 GC with purchase.
Variable Gear
11-02-2008, 02:58 AM
I don't get it either I played Super Smash Bros. and I still don't see what the hype was about.
Play Melee. It's far superior to Brawl.
Dr. Wierdo
11-02-2008, 03:26 AM
Play Melee. It's far superior to Brawl.
QFT
Brawl was fun at first but it got boring online wasn't that good it was just average to hyped but nintendo did print alot of money out of it....
Gorvi
11-02-2008, 03:53 AM
Kats, you're a bastard. Now I need to go play a Zelda game......
Wii is the new Apple Jacks. I don't get it.
Try to imagine a mother's outlook on gaming. She is probably used to her kids fighting for a turn and/or having to wrestle her kids away from the console to get them to go outside and do something active. The Wii's advertising communicates to her that this is a console her kids can play together while being active and she also gets to play.
Instead of marketing a game console with great features and an impressive game library, they are marketing a really great toy for the whole family.
Of course, a big part of the problem is that Sony and Microsoft's marketing really has never communicated the strengths of either console well. Xbox 360 ads are all style over substance in that they are very vague about the 360's advantages. . . okay, so some people are having fun playing online or we seen a neat animation showing wireless controls. . . they show off two decent features but everyone has wireles controllers now, so that is kind of a dead issue, and the online portion could show off so much more. How about showing people being able to download HD movies and watch them with friends, or a family talking and playing online together? Plus, they need to go on and on and on about the fact that they have the largest and most highly rated game library. Finally, the biggest "feature" Microsoft needs to talk about this year is the price drop.
Sony's commercials have all been sort of surreal, but they've been pretty effective in selling the image that Sony wants for the machine. Ask someone who isn't a gamer whether the PS3 or Xbox 360 is more powerful and I bet you will get more people saying PS3 than people saying that they are far too close in power to tell a difference. This is the image they need with their $400 price-point.
Man, sometimes I see stuff that makes this game look lame, but then I see super awesome videos like this one:
Imagine playing it though, I would have a good time shaking the controller as if they are the bells the FIRST time I palyed, but then I'd be turning it off and playing Rock Band or Guitar Hero instead.
Still, as a marketing tool, Wii Music is amazing. Plus Nintendo has incredibly brand loyalty that allows them to make shallow games and come away unscathed by them. Seriously, there are people who are extremely happy to plunk down $50 on a Nintendo game they play for 30 minutes to an hour once every 3 months (maybe), but they wouldn't buy the same or a similar title for the 360 or PS3.
To be honest, I kind of "get" the brand loyalty too. While I am not interested in the really shallow games on the Wii, there are some first-party Nintendo titles that I've loved since I was a very little kid and I bought a Wii in order to play them.
Widgetcraft
11-02-2008, 05:17 AM
Looks like a children's game... small children. Like, "If my child listens to Mozart, he'll be smarter when he gets into school," small.
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menage
11-02-2008, 06:27 AM
This one was alright I guess.
Most Wii/DS commercials annoy the fucking hell out of me though. Uberhappy people playing games like no real person ever would/ beaming faces having joy orgasms in their ultraclean wholesome suburban setting. I just want to punch them.
My girlfirend laughed her ass of the first time she saw one. "Does anyone really fall for this crap" she said. Guess so:P
Telefrog
11-02-2008, 08:15 AM
There are going to be a lot of pissed kids come Christmas morning when they unwrap this as opposed to a GH or RB game.
Sl1pstream
11-02-2008, 09:34 AM
There are going to be a lot of pissed kids come Christmas morning when they unwrap this as opposed to a GH or RB game.
I honestly doubt that 6 year olds are going to be pissed about it.
Widgetcraft
11-02-2008, 09:37 AM
I honestly doubt that 6 year olds are going to be pissed about it.
I think I would have been. It's basically a digital version of a Fisher Price xylophone (http://www.amazon.com/Sababa-Toys-Fisher%252dPrice-Pull%252da%252dTune-Xylophone/dp/B000H7ENUO). I know people like to tarry about the kiddy label when it comes to Nintendo products, but I'm actually a big Nintendo fan; this isn't even kiddy, it's literally a baby's toy.
I honestly doubt that 6 year olds are going to be pissed about it.
Well, I think it's about temperament and exposure more than age, though I agree that younger children will enjoy Wii Music more than older one.
If little Timmy (age: 6) has played Guitar Hero at his friend's house and wants to get it, I don't think Wii Music will have nearly as compelling gameplay and will piss the kid off.
JayVe
11-02-2008, 12:37 PM
I think I would have been. It's basically a digital version of a Fisher Price xylophone (http://www.amazon.com/Sababa-Toys-Fisher%252dPrice-Pull%252da%252dTune-Xylophone/dp/B000H7ENUO). I know people like to tarry about the kiddy label when it comes to Nintendo products, but I'm actually a big Nintendo fan; this isn't even kiddy, it's literally a baby's toy.
Well, as a creative tool, a toy xylophone is more creative than Rock Band. That said, I own Rock Band and not Wii Music. So far, I remain skeptical of Wii Music. Very skeptical.
Purple Santa
11-02-2008, 12:39 PM
Nintendo built upon a market that was ignored. It keeps the old one around by producing on the franchises we know and love. Sometimes they even get around to making new ones. But the newer market needs to be nurtured and attended to. Why? Because they want this generation to follow it into the next one. Just like the old Nintendo fans do now despite the anger toward Nintendo. Just building a larger fan base is all. The "new" fans of Nintendo are going to follow Nintendo into the next generation. That is what Nintendo is doing now.
Variable Gear
11-02-2008, 01:28 PM
Why the fuck is this in news? If this is news to you, you must not be taking your colony-required vitamins.
rinichanraar
11-02-2008, 01:40 PM
This one was alright I guess.
Most Wii/DS commercials annoy the fucking hell out of me though. Uberhappy people playing games like no real person ever would/ beaming faces having joy orgasms in their ultraclean wholesome suburban setting. I just want to punch them.
My girlfirend laughed her ass of the first time she saw one. "Does anyone really fall for this crap" she said. Guess so:P
I actually really, really dislike most DS commercials. You know, the ones that have like Liv Tyler and/or some other semi-famous celebrity (like an American Idol or something) playing their DSes together. They're always talking to each other while playing some lame game where you have to find things in a mansion, and they try to make it sound so fun, but it honestly seems really terrible. The one where they're playing Mario Kart wouldn't be so bad, but their banter kind of makes it annoying.
Variable Gear
11-02-2008, 01:51 PM
I actually really, really dislike most DS commercials. You know, the ones that have like Liv Tyler and/or some other semi-famous celebrity (like an American Idol or something) playing their DSes together. They're always talking to each other while playing some lame game where you have to find things in a mansion, and they try to make it sound so fun, but it honestly seems really terrible. The one where they're playing Mario Kart wouldn't be so bad, but their banter kind of makes it annoying.
I don't know if you've seen this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M0LfLk9lLEg), but I consider it to be the best DS commercial ever.
M0LfLk9lLEg
Gorvi
11-02-2008, 01:52 PM
I don't know if you've seen this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M0LfLk9lLEg), but I consider it to be the best DS commercial ever.
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That woman creeps me the fuck out. Seriously.
JayVe
11-02-2008, 02:44 PM
I don't know if you've seen this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M0LfLk9lLEg), but I consider it to be the best DS commercial ever.
M0LfLk9lLEg
This is several types of awesome rolled into one. It also explains the source of the wacky animated GIF I've seen floating around with these freaky people smiling at the camera.
Any idea what they are saying?
menage
11-02-2008, 02:54 PM
I actually really, really dislike most DS commercials. You know, the ones that have like Liv Tyler and/or some other semi-famous celebrity (like an American Idol or something) playing their DSes together. They're always talking to each other while playing some lame game where you have to find things in a mansion, and they try to make it sound so fun, but it honestly seems really terrible. The one where they're playing Mario Kart wouldn't be so bad, but their banter kind of makes it annoying.
Exactly. The whole thing screams "We wouldn't go near a game console if someone beat us with a cattle prod, but here we are having the best freaking time of our lives while talking the most brainless bullshit we ever heard a person say above 4 years old"
As you can see it really get's to me:P. I'd rather watch 10 detergent commercials, at least I know those are meant to be annoying.
I actually really, really dislike most DS commercials. You know, the ones that have like Liv Tyler and/or some other semi-famous celebrity (like an American Idol or something) playing their DSes together. They're always talking to each other while playing some lame game where you have to find things in a mansion, and they try to make it sound so fun, but it honestly seems really terrible. The one where they're playing Mario Kart wouldn't be so bad, but their banter kind of makes it annoying.
I'm interested to find out what kind of gamer you consider yourself, would you say that you play games more often than most people? Also, I'm guessing you are male, but is that true?
Those particular commercials (and a few other DS commercials) were highly targeted demographic ads aimed at attracting female customers. Do you think they were effective? I don't have the numbers in a handy link, but I remember reading that most women don't own a console (though many have access to them in their families), but quite a few own a DS.
Likewise, I'm not saying the commercial in the original post is brilliant because it is particularly clever or interesting. I'm saying that it is brilliant because it successfully communicates the main selling points of the Wii (playing together, active gameplay, accessibility).
The Xbox 360 and PS3 both have a lot of selling points, but their main selling point is their games. People decide to buy them because there is a game on them that they think looks awesome and they definitely want to buy it. So a highly effective ad for either of these systems generally promotes their next big killer-app. The 2006 Gears of War ad was incredibly effective as it lead to the Xbox 360 actually being the highest sold console that holiday season (though Nintendo would have won if they did not face such a huge shortage that was even worse at launch than it is now, but at that point the main SKU for the Xbox 360 was still $400 and the "cheaper" version was still $350, so it was still quite an achievement).
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Both of these are homeruns as far as marketing effectiveness, but I'm betting that you like the Gears of War "Mad World" ad more than the Wii Music one. . . well, so do I, but I also found Gears of War pretty entertaining (not even close to CoD 4, Fallout 3, Fable 2, or Tales of Vesparia but still fun) and I think Wii Music is probably boring after you spend an hour or two with it. . . especially when you could be playing Guitar Hero or Rock Band instead. The point I'm making is that ads are not always targeted at gamers and our bias for or against certain types of games effects how much they influence us. For example, I was a skater as a kid, but I never got into skating games much. . . they always made me feel like a maladroit, so the Skate ads were completely wasted on me. Likewise, I think Shaun White seems like a likeable guy, but playing a snowboarding game on a Wii Fit mat looks absolutely awful to me (though I'm looking forward to trying it out for free at a friend's house. . . I guess it does intrigue me).
Currently, I think both Microsoft and Sony are going after this homerun. I don't watch a large amount of television, but I've seen really great commercials for Fable 2, LBP, and Resistance 2. I'm sure we'll see Gears of War 2 commercials when it is closer to release too.
That's the space that Sony will stay in because marketing the Blu-Ray player does not seem to be very effective for them (though they won't give up on that entirely, but I'll go into that more below), and that is the console's other chief selling point; on the other hand, Microsoft is going to be pitching it's new lower price and I think they'll start trying to adopt the Wii's selling points as their own. They've said that they are going to have the biggest ad campaign for the system they've ever done and my money is on them being highly similar to Wii commercials. People will be seen having fun playing together next to each other, but they'll also be shown having fun together playing over Xbox Live. They'll sell the "active" bit by showing people playing Guitar Hero, Lips, and Scene It, and they might even throw in at least the narrator saying something about how the Xbox 360 has the largest and most highly rated game library. I'm hoping it will be successful because I want Nintendo, the rich-ass market leader, to have to make a highly competitive HD system in the next-gen with the billions of dollars they've made. How cool would it be to play the next Zelda with incredible graphics? I don't think it will happen if one of the other two doesn't get close enough to give them a fight.
To get back to the PS3, even though the games look so similar that I have trouble seeing the difference in quality even with side-by-side screenshot comparisons, the general public believes that the PS3 is the most powerful console, and because they are now by far the most expensive console, they have to sell it like a luxury car. This is consistent with their marketing to date, and I think it will continue. We'll see some ads that are kind of surreal but simply imply that the PS3 is a powerful and awesome luxury item, and we've already seen their "killer-app" marketing of LBP and Resistance 2. I don't expect any surprises from them.
Variable Gear
11-02-2008, 07:05 PM
How cool would it be to play the next Zelda with incredible graphics? I don't think it will happen if one of the other two doesn't get close enough to give them a fight.
As "hardcore" gamers, we need to stop getting hung up on graphics. It's the art design that matters.
As "hardcore" gamers, we need to stop getting hung up on graphics. It's the art design that matters.
Oh sure, art design is very important, but having modern hardware lets you do more. There isn't a single game on the Nintendo Wii that comes close to the beauty of Eternal Sonata (not that Eternal Sonata is a great game, it has a poor plot line IMO but it is absolutely gorgeous). I simply want the next Nintendo console to have the ability to do more. Obviously, you can always do a lot less.
Look at Blue Dragon, it has very simple art compared to most HD games, but the art style (though annoyingly childish and garish to me), is attractive to a lot of people. Even when you do less with better hardware, it tends to look better. I expect a next-gen Zelda would be very highly stylized and considering that it is next-gen would be an even better looking version of the art techniques used for Prince of Persia (but obviously with a more cartoonish Zelda theme).
Variable Gear
11-02-2008, 07:22 PM
Oh sure, art design is very important, but having modern hardware lets you do more. There isn't a single game on the Nintendo Wii that comes close to the beauty of Eternal Sonata (not that Eternal Sonata is a great game, it has a poor plot line IMO but it is absolutely gorgeous). I simply want the next Nintendo console to have the ability to do more. Obviously, you can always do a lot less.
Gears of War. That game had great graphics, but a horrible art style. People splooged all over it anyway. You could have the greatest graphics processor possible of being created by mankind, and, yet, if you your game is artistically bankrupt it doesn't matter. It will end up being another Gears of War. Ugly, stupid, and popular with the ever-revolting "core" gamer. As a community, we need to mature quite a bit.
King3567
11-02-2008, 07:23 PM
DS ads are so annoying. I don't really play games that much anymore (I play like a casual, but am up to date like a hardcore) and those commercials piss me off. I mean, do people really get interested by that?
rinichanraar
11-02-2008, 07:39 PM
I don't know if you've seen this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M0LfLk9lLEg), but I consider it to be the best DS commercial ever.
M0LfLk9lLEg
I actually haven't seen that, but I think it's fantastic. And it's different from those commercials I don't like because it's actually humorous.
I'm interested to find out what kind of gamer you consider yourself, would you say that you play games more often than most people? Also, I'm guessing you are male, but is that true?
I honestly don't think I'm a "hardcore" gamer, but I'd say that I play games much, much more than the average person. Also, I'm not male, I'm female.
Those particular commercials (and a few other DS commercials) were highly targeted demographic ads aimed at attracting female customers. Do you think they were effective? I don't have the numbers in a handy link, but I remember reading that most women don't own a console (though many have access to them in their families), but quite a few own a DS.
I can see what they're trying to do with those commercials, but from a completely objective standpoint, I do not enjoy them. I can see why some females might, but I don't. I even like Liv Tyler, so it's not that I'm saying they're terrible because I dislike the people in them. I don't doubt that there are tons of women who own a DS. Casual gamers love them. (I have one, too, but I only really play it when I know I'm going to be in a line for a long time or on a long road trip or something.)
Likewise, I'm not saying the commercial in the original post is brilliant because it is particularly clever or interesting. I'm saying that it is brilliant because it successfully communicates the main selling points of the Wii (playing together, active gameplay, accessibility).
I wasn't criticizing your post or that commercial. I was just making a statement about DS commercials that I don't enjoy. I agree that Nintendo has great Wii commercials.
Both of these are homeruns as far as marketing effectiveness, but I'm betting that you like the Gears of War "Mad World" ad more than the Wii Music one. . . well, so do I, but I also found Gears of War pretty entertaining (not even close to CoD 4, Fallout 3, Fable 2, or Tales of Vesparia but still fun) and I think Wii Music is probably boring after you spend an hour or two with it. . . especially when you could be playing Guitar Hero or Rock Band instead. The point I'm making is that ads are not always targeted at gamers and our bias for or against certain types of games effects how much they influence us.
I actually did really enjoy the "Mad World" and "Last Day" ads, and I am a huge Gears fan (I got the fucking Lancer on Amazon), but I've seen a lot of posters on this site bashing them because they make the game seem like something it's not. Again, I agree with you though that both (the Wii Music and Gears of War ads) are very effective in their own way. I understand that Nintendo targets a different audience than Sony or Microsoft. That's just the way it is.
By bashing the DS ads, I wasn't trying to start a debate about the effectiveness of each company's advertising. I understand what each company is trying to do with its advertising campaigns, and I respect their marketing decisions. All I was trying to say is that I didn't like those ads in particular. :p
Gears of War. That game had great graphics, but a horrible art style. People splooged all over it anyway.
So you are saying that if Nintendo's console was strong enough to make HD graphics, they'd make games that have terrible art design because they would go for realistic, gory art aesthetics (that you obviously dislike intensely) like those in Gears of War?
My point is you can ALWAYS do less, and I gave the example of Blue Dragon. It is not a graphically intense game as the polygons and textures are all fairly simple, but some people seem to love the art design anyway (though I personally dislike Akira Toriyama art. . . though I think it worked well for 16-bit games when the characters were tiny).
An HD Zelda wouldn't have a gritty, realistic Link saving Zelda from highly realistic and terrifying monsters with gorey executions. It would have (at least in my imagination) a very cartoon-like quality. . . or perhaps more of a Pixar-type quality and would use the art techniques we are seeing in the current-gen Prince of Persia (but obviously even better since what I'm wanting is for 2012 when the next Wii comes out).
Why do you hate Gears of War's art design? I hated the character art because I'm tired of playing bodybuilders covered in heavy metal armor, but I thought the animations (particularly the chainsaw executions, but all of them really) were fantastic. The world was very grey and brown and I do get tired of playing games that use these negative color palets to create bleakness, but that's the color palette that all artists use to convey hopelessness. Check out the opening of Saving Private Ryan or even look at the Death Star (though the Death Star is an example of an innovative way to use the palet interestingly and they added enough lighting and color especially with the heroes to keep it interesting). Color does convey emotion, so I get why they did it. They just need to get better at doing it in new and interesting ways. . . the tunnels with the glowing yellow lava were actually quite good, but they should have played with their other environments more to make them more interesting.
I think there are far better examples of bad art design both in SD Wii games and HD games.
By bashing the DS ads, I wasn't trying to start a debate about the effectiveness of each company's advertising. I understand what each company is trying to do with its advertising campaigns, and I respect their marketing decisions. All I was trying to say is that I didn't like those ads in particular. :p
Hehe. Well, I am obviously trying to start one. :) Seriously, your post and the one it responded to came closest to actually discussing the original topic, so I seized upon it to try and steer the post back on topic (not that going off topic is a sin or anything, but I do want to talk about this stuff with other colonists).
I love games, but I'm also really interested in the game industry and what drives the decisions that executives make. My goal is to become a game designer, and I think having an understanding of the industry will be helpful.
rinichanraar
11-02-2008, 07:46 PM
The one thing regarding Gears of War 2's art design that I definitely have to give them credit for is that the women (or at least Anya) look normal. And by "normal," I mean they don't have ridiculously huge, unproportional breasts.
rinichanraar
11-02-2008, 07:48 PM
Hehe. Well, I am obviously trying to start one. :) Seriously, your post and the one it responded to came closest to actually discussing the original topic, so I seized upon it to try and steer the post back on topic (not that going off topic is a sin or anything, but I do want to talk about this stuff with other colonists).
I love games, but I'm also really interested in the game industry and what drives the decisions that executives make. My goal is to become a game designer, and I think having an understanding of the industry will be helpful.
Ah, that's totally fine. I just wanted to make sure that you didn't think I was bashing your thread or the commercials. Honestly, I do agree that the Wii has great commercials (some better than others)! It's mostly the DS ads that I find annoying. :)
Variable Gear
11-02-2008, 08:09 PM
So you are saying that if Nintendo's console was strong enough to make HD graphics, they'd make games that have terrible art design because they would go for realistic, gory art aesthetics (that you obviously dislike intensely) like those in Gears of War?
No. I'm saying that Epic has an artistically bankrupt design philosophy. I'm not saying that people who know the definition of style wouldn't benefit from more power under the hood. Instead, I'm saying that those with very limited artistic talent wouldn't benefit much from more powerful hardware. No matter how good your graphics processor is, shit will continue to look like shit. The uncanny valley can't change that. :rolleyes:
My point is you can ALWAYS do less, and I gave the example of Blue Dragon. It is not a graphically intense game as the polygons and textures are all fairly simple, but some people seem to love the art design anyway (though I personally dislike Akira Toriyama art. . . though I think it worked well for 16-bit games when the characters were tiny).
Most designers, like the audience in general, are caught up in the progression of graphics technology. This does not sit well with me, and I appreciate any game that prioritizes stylish design over trying to create a photo-realistic experience. Wind Waker is another good example of this kind of design.
Additionally, Akira Toriyama is a joke. All of his characters look exactly the same. Chrono is Goku and Goku is Shu. All he can do anymore is rehash the same old shit. I'd prefer to not play a game influenced by his art, which is why I haven't. Since I finished Chrono Trigger. ;)
An HD Zelda wouldn't have a gritty, realistic Link saving Zelda from highly realistic and terrifying monsters with gorey executions. It would have (at least in my imagination) a very cartoon-like quality. . . or perhaps more of a Pixar-type quality and would use the art techniques we are seeing in the current-gen Prince of Persia (but obviously even better since what I'm wanting is for 2012 when the next Wii comes out).
Play Twilight Princess. That game was horrible, and it was filled with terrible art design. That game gave me no hope for an HD Zelda. I've already seen The Lord of the Rings trilogy and I've already played Ocarina of Time. I didn't need or want a hybrid of the two. I'd prefer something in the style of Wind Waker, as long as it's not shit like Phantom Hourglass. Another 2D, top-down Zelda would be great as well.
Why do you hate Gears of War's art design? I hated the character art because I'm tired of playing bodybuilders covered in heavy metal armor, but I thought the animations (particularly the chainsaw executions, but all of them really) were fantastic.
Because it's gun porn featuring men made out of trees who kill bugs. It's completely uninteresting. Totally bland, trite, and boring.
The world was very grey and brown and I do get tired of playing games that use these negative color palets to create bleakness, but that's the color palette that all artists use to convey hopelessness.
Yes, go ahead and simplify my argument for the brain-dead hardcore crowd. Of course, if you are making a hopeless and bleak game, you have to use a limited color palate made up of variations on gray and brown. There are no games like Mirror's Edge that effectively use color while simultaneously imparting a narrative filled with despair. Nope, all games involving desperate struggles must be bleak and bland.
Again, I'll restate my point that the "core" community needs to mature a bit.
Check out the opening of Saving Private Ryan or even look at the Death Star (though the Death Star is an example of an innovative way to use the palet interestingly and they added enough lighting and color especially with the heroes to keep it interesting). Color does convey emotion, so I get why they did it. They just need to get better at doing it in new and interesting ways. . . the tunnels with the glowing yellow lava were actually quite good, but they should have played with their other environments more to make them more interesting.
What does this have to do with anything?
I'm not saying that people who know the definition of style wouldn't benefit from more power under the hood.
So you also hope that Nintendo's next console is graphically competitive? I am sorry, but I though you took a position against this based on the fact that you think that art direction is the most important. . . but now it seems like you are agreeing with me that better hardware simply gives better tools to artistic directors and thus better hardware enhances art direction.
Most designers, like the audience in general, are caught up in the progression of graphics technology.
Odd, if I had said this, you would probably point out to me that 51 million people have chosen to spend $250 on a console that has hardware that makes games that look like they were made for the original Xbox. I know artists who work on games and they seem to be very concerned about designing art that creates a mood and a feeling as well as "making cool shit". But the art guys I know don't work for Epic and aren't limited to creating bleak narratives so they get to use more color than the guys working on Gears or Resident Evil.
Additionally, Akira Toriyama is a joke. All of his characters look exactly the same. Chrono is Goku and Goku is Shu. All he can do anymore is rehash the same old shit. I'd prefer to not play a game influenced by his art, which is why I haven't. Since I finished Chrono Trigger. ;)
Preaching to the choir.
Because it's gun porn featuring men made out of trees who kill bugs. It's completely uninteresting. Totally bland, trite, and boring.
Oh, I absolutely agree, but those are game design decisions. It's a popcorn game, and thus I only rented it. I haven't beaten Eternal Sonata and probably never will because the narrative is poor and the gameplay is highly repetitive, but I bought it because I really enjoyed the look of it. Too bad it couldn't deliver in every way like Okami, Bully, Portal, Fable 2, Tales of Vesparia, or Fallout 3 (just to name a few).
Yes, go ahead and simplify my argument for the brain-dead hardcore crowd. Of course, if you are making a hopeless and bleak game, you have to use a limited color palate made up of variations on gray and brown. There are no games like Mirror's Edge that effectively use color while simultaneously imparting a narrative filled with despair. Nope, all games involving desperate struggles must be bleak and bland.
Actually, you are simplifying my argument. I went on to say in the quote you clipped that Epic needs to be more innovative about how they do it, how they were innovative about it in one particular environment, and gave an example of how Star Wars did the bleak gray Death Star in an innovative way while still using that color palette. Plus, you didn't give details on why you thought the art direction was poor. . . so if this is an example of why you thought it was poor, then I was amplifying your argument by bringing it up.
What does this have to do with anything?
My examples of the Death Star and Saving Private Ryan are of how great art directors have used a negative color palette heavy with grey to convey a lack of hope. It's a technique that goes back further than that if you study art or even literature too.
A quote from O. Henry's The Gift of the Magi:
"Della finished her cry and attended to her cheeks with the powder rag. She stood by the window and looked out dully at a gray cat walking a gray fence in a gray backyard. Tomorrow would be Christmas Day, and she had only $1.87 with which to buy Jim a present. She had been saving every penny she could for months, with this result. Twenty dollars a week doesn't go far. Expenses had been greater than she had calculated. They always are. Only $1.87 to buy a present for Jim. Her Jim. Many a happy hour she had spent planning for something nice for him. Something fine and rare and sterling--something just a little bit near to being worthy of the honor of being owned by Jim."
However, just because I'm clarifying this point, please don't ignore how I've said in both of these posts that good art designers need to be clever about how they use negative color palettes to create a feeling of dread and despair. Perhaps it would be best to move away from bleak worlds altogether, but a smarter choice might be to have bright, colorful sympathetic characters who are in colorful worlds that become bleak as evil pervades them or are only bleak in the areas controlled by the enemy (though this is even more of a cliche than Gears' one-note world, it is a highly pleasing one to most audiences. . . but that's true of all art (ever notice how most songs are verse, chorus, verse, chorus. . . anyway that is a huge digression). The problem with Gears of War 2 was probably that the games narrative didn't call for settings that conveyed different kinds of emotion. They did the opening to Saving Private Ryan for 8 hours and most of us just got tired of it.
Johan
11-02-2008, 09:48 PM
I enjoy Toriyama's artistic style. A lot.
I honestly doubt that 6 year olds are going to be pissed about it.
I agree. My oldest is eight soon, and she would LOVE this. Kids aren't driven toward hardcore gamer's products; they just want to have fun. They're not miniature adults who see things as serious adult gamers see things...however that would be described.
quidmonkey
11-03-2008, 09:29 AM
Go Wii Music!
The one thing regarding Gears of War 2's art design that I definitely have to give them credit for is that the women (or at least Anya) look normal. And by "normal," I mean they don't have ridiculously huge, unproportional breasts.
Yes, but Gears does have ridiculously huge, proportional men.
5y1v4r
11-04-2008, 08:52 AM
Nintendo built upon a market that was ignored. It keeps the old one around by producing on the franchises we know and love. Sometimes they even get around to making new ones. But the newer market needs to be nurtured and attended to. Why? Because they want this generation to follow it into the next one. Just like the old Nintendo fans do now despite the anger toward Nintendo. Just building a larger fan base is all. The "new" fans of Nintendo are going to follow Nintendo into the next generation. That is what Nintendo is doing now.
It just seems like they've gone so head over heels into this new market that they're not really doing all that much for the old market anymore. I'd personally love to see a little more of the creativity and innovation they've been putting into family toys like Wii Music put into making a serious and unique game that isn't just a reboot of an old franchise. I understand they're branching out into the next generation but do they really have to do that at the expense of ignoring the old?
It just seems like they've gone so head over heels into this new market that they're not really doing all that much for the old market anymore. I'd personally love to see a little more of the creativity and innovation they've been putting into family toys like Wii Music put into making a serious and unique game that isn't just a reboot of an old franchise. I understand they're branching out into the next generation but do they really have to do that at the expense of ignoring the old?
It makes sense for Nintendo to sell tons of games and systems by reiterating their classic hits for the Wii (Zelda, Mario Cart, Metroid, Brawl, etc.) and sometimes they have done this innovatively (Mario Galaxy). There are only 3 "Wii" titles from Nintendo themselves that are simply toys.
However, without the backing of a long-standing family-oriented IP, I think it is difficult for Nintendo and 3rd party developers to launch new IPs on the platform. This is where the weakness of the hardware comes into play. . . it would be possible to make a fun, creative game on the Wii, but how do you sell it to people? Gamers generate a lot of sales themselves or through word of mouth, but only a portion of gamers actually own the Wii and we tend to be a fickle audience (there were as many critiques of No More Heroes as praise). So without the gamer audience, you have to sell a new IP based on marketing.
Now, if you are making a new IP on the HD consoles, then you can use fantastic visuals to get people interested enough to take a second look. Gamers, of course, will look at a game with poor visuals if the gameplay mechanics are successfully communicated in developer interviews, etc. but again you have the problem that gamer word-of-mouth advertising isn't as effective for the Wii because there are fewer gamers that play the Wii and our word-of-mouth does not generally reach the ears of soccer Moms.
This means that if you made a great game on the Wii, you couldn't simply rely on game news sites to sell your game, but would have to use expensive paid marketing like television ads and magazines. . . but of course then you again face the problem that your game simply can't look as good as the games appearing in other ads due to the huge gap in visuals.
It's a smarter investment to launch a new IP that is very cheap to make on the Wii without spending any money on paid advertising and just hope that word of mouth reaches people or to make the game targeted at the new audience but perhaps not that strong in gameplay (deer hunting games and casual titles like Cooking Mama). Or if you have a fun and innovative AAA game, spend a little more money paying for artists and launch it on the Xbox 360 and PS3.
5y1v4r
11-04-2008, 03:12 PM
It makes sense for Nintendo to sell tons of games and systems by reiterating their classic hits for the Wii (Zelda, Mario Cart, Metroid, Brawl, etc.) and sometimes they have done this innovatively (Mario Galaxy). There are only 3 "Wii" titles from Nintendo themselves that are simply toys.
However, without the backing of a long-standing family-oriented IP, I think it is difficult for Nintendo and 3rd party developers to launch new IPs on the platform. This is where the weakness of the hardware comes into play. . . it would be possible to make a fun, creative game on the Wii, but how do you sell it to people? Gamers generate a lot of sales themselves or through word of mouth, but only a portion of gamers actually own the Wii and we tend to be a fickle audience (there were as many critiques of No More Heroes as praise). So without the gamer audience, you have to sell a new IP based on marketing.
[snip]
That makes sense, it's sounds though, like Nintendo could stand to work on the way they market to gamers and then they could court both markets sucessfully. I mean, there's a reason why there are lots of unique, experimental, and third party games popping up for X-Box Live (Braid anyone?) I think that they do a far better job of actively encouraging this sort of thing, as you say. So why is it that Nintendo can't market effectively to gamers for the Wii?
So why is it that Nintendo can't market effectively to gamers for the Wii?
It's difficult due to the hardware's limitations. To make a great game on the Wii, you really have to deliver great gameplay, art direction that excels within limitations (and it can be done. . . Okami and Odin Sphere for example are beautiful games and they were made on the PS2), and if they deliver multiplayer, it has to be done without voice or with the expectation that people will want voice so much that they'll pay extra to get it.
Plus, many genres are driven by their visuals. Gearheads want to drive cars that look awesome, and if you make an FPS game that is not beautiful, you need to make it so different from other FPS games that it may not fit in the genre anymore because otherwise how will you compete with other FPS titles. That's true for many genres to more or less of a degree.
What remains are casual, puzzle, and rhythm games OR games that are highly driven by narrative and gameplay. . . action/adventure and RPGs mostly. If I was at a company that had a limited budget, I would suggest making a Zelda-like adventure game that has an interesting world, narrative, and gameplay that expands as you discover items (like Zelda) on the Wii. I have no idea why, with the success of Zelda, we don't see as many action/adventure games as we see FPS titles. There is a market here, and it wouldn't be hard to make this world and setting family-friendly to pull in the Wii audience while also appealing to core gamers. If that idea didn't fly, I would suggest a strategy RPG that focuses on large battles like Shining Force, but that has you put your many party members into groups to fight (much like Suikoden's big battle bits or what The Last Remnant seems to be like). . . or some other twist on the traditional SRPG that offers new and novel gameplay without requiring visuals the Wii is not capable of producing.
It certainly can be done and with a customer base of 51 million, itwill happen. A lot of 3rd party developers have lost their ass making games on the Wii because they were in direct competition with the strong first-party lineup on the Wii, so there does seem to be some hesitance right now, and it could be that Nintendo is not making it easy to be a 3rd party developer for their console. I don't know that they are charging a lot or being a chore to developers, but if you own a console that is constantly sold out and your first-party titles are absolutely dominating the sales for your system, there isn't any reason to provide incentive to developers to make games for the Wii. Obviously people are happy enough with the game library to buy the console.
5y1v4r
11-05-2008, 03:16 PM
Mmmm, well you make a very good point. I agree with you, I guess it's just a shame that there isn't more of an opportunity for innovation for the Wii with the current market model. I'm not trying to dig on the Wii, I just feel like there's a lot of potential there that's not being utilized. Hopefully farther down the road Nintendo will add on more 3rd party functionality, perhaps once its current momentum starts to slow.
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