Fallout: New Vegas

[RandoM51]

Less than two weeks now, people.

Previews:

IGN (http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/112/1121248p1.html)
Destructoid (http://www.destructoid.com/preview-fallout-new-vegas-181905.phtml)
play.tm (http://play.tm/preview/31040/fallout-new-vegas/)
joystiq (http://www.joystiq.com/2010/06/15/preview-fallout-new-vegas/)
kotaku (http://kotaku.com/5530358/fallout-new-vegas-preview-meet-sunny-dinky--tabitha)
eurogamer (http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/fallout-new-vegas-may-2010-preview)
shacknews (http://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/65128)
pcgamer (http://www.pcgamer.com/2010/09/25/fallout-new-vegas-preview-hunting-deathclaws/)

A quote from the pcgamer preview that I saw over on GAF that should get fans excited:


An early play of New Vegas suggests, then, that it’s darker, funnier and more engaging than its Bethesdan forerunner. If you’re a wasteland devotee, you’re certainly right to be excited. There’s little doubt that it captures the underlying spirit of the first Fallout far better than Fallout 3 did – the dark comedy is more cutting and the people you come across are often deeper and more interesting to toy with. It’s an altogether fiercer game.

[Hawkzombie]

Welp, time to load 50 bucks onto my paypay account so I can buy it in time.

[Narradisall]

I really should buy this on PC this time round. Hadn't the rig when FO3 came out so got it on the 360... but the mods... THE MODS.

I'm glad this is more akin to the first though. I love dark gritty humour.

[TheKeck]

An early play of New Vegas suggests, then, that it’s darker, funnier and more engaging than its Bethesdan forerunner.
This sentence makes it sound like New Vegas isn't developed by Bethesda. That's not the case, is it?

[Banacek]

This sentence makes it sound like New Vegas isn't developed by Bethesda. That's not the case, is it?

It was done by Obsidian.

I wish I had money to buy a PC for this, but I have to build a new deck, so I don't think I can go the PC route for this release.

[Wasson_]

I didn't think you'd need a top o' the line PC to play it and have it look pretty good, it's still mostly Fallout 3 churning and bubbling under the hood ya know...

isn't it?

[J Arcane]

If you can run FO3, you can run FNV. The system requirements are almost identical and so are the visuals.

I wouldn't expect any problems.

[Banacek]

I didn't think you'd need a top o' the line PC to play it and have it look pretty good, it's still mostly Fallout 3 churning and bubbling under the hood ya know...

isn't it?

Right now I only have a work laptop, no home PC. Eventually I need to build one, but I've been putting it off for a while now.

[Vigil80]

The engine is the same: Gamebryo. That's not to say New Vegas may not look better, but if you could run Fallout 3, you should be able to run New Vegas.

[Wackman3000]

So what kind of characters are you guys planning on building?

I might force myself to try and step away from the Melee + Stealth thing I've been doing since Oblivion and go for Heavy Weapons and anything else that shoots a bullet.

[J Arcane]

I'll probably just wind up going Stealth + VATS-rape like before unless they've seriously improved the real-time combat from the last game, as in FO3 trying to run and gun was just balls.

[JayK47]

I went to pre-order today and it wasn't so easy to track down a collector's edition for the PC. Everybody seems to be "sold out". Funny thing, I get turned away at my local Gamestop, but was only able to find the PC version on the Gamestop website. A hefty price after getting the release day delivery and taxes. Luckily I was able to use my store credit online and still have some credit left. Hard to say if the goodies are worth $20 more. They do sound cool though.

[ClannerDelta]

I'll probably just wind up going Stealth + VATS-rape like before unless they've seriously improved the real-time combat from the last game, as in FO3 trying to run and gun was just balls.

Probably the same. FO3 real time combat seemed like it should have Benny Hill music for the battle theme. It was just stupid.

[miah]

Totally buying this when I get paid next week. I cannot wait to run through this campaign as many times as I have the previous Fallout games.

[TheKeck]

I found that the minigun was nigh useless in VATS but performed wonderfully in real time.

[Ghostbear]

I'll probably just wind up going Stealth + VATS-rape like before unless they've seriously improved the real-time combat from the last game, as in FO3 trying to run and gun was just balls.

I dont think I ever fired a gun in real time.

As to wack's question, I've never bothered with stealth in these games, I might give it a try.

[BigJonno]

Probably go with my usual charming gunslinger type.

[Hawkzombie]

I usually went heavy stealth and long range rifles/laser weaponry when I played FO3. It was a throwback from my Oblivion playstyle of 'steal everything not nailed down' :p...I'm surprised with myself and how little thieving I did in FO3.

I may do two different types. A heavy armor/gunner with no stealth, and a heavy stealth melee/long-range like FO3. I've always been tempted to play a heavy, and may just bite the bullet. But I've always liked being able to see them before they see me.

[Banacek]

I always want to play a heavy as well, but don't you miss out on a lot in Fallout if you don't have computer skills?

[Squidbot]

Wooooo. Snipey stealth all the way, baby.

[Hawkzombie]

I always want to play a heavy as well, but don't you miss out on a lot in Fallout if you don't have computer skills?

You can do both...I did.

By the end of my playing, I had 100 in Stealth, Science and Lockpicking. I pretty much poured all my points into each. Also, you can find the skill books, and if you take the 'each book = 2 pts' then you can max every skill pretty much.

[iHap]

Hooray!

http://i53.tinypic.com/2dalmqq.png

[TheKeck]

I always want to play a heavy as well, but don't you miss out on a lot in Fallout if you don't have computer skills?
Did I? I was always really light on the computer skills.

[Hawkzombie]

Did I? I was always really light on the computer skills.

I think more of side stuff, really.

[RandoM51]

ninja thief hacker rifleman is the class I usually play.

[Squidbot]

You bought the guide? O_o

[J Arcane]

Honestly, I hated missing out on stuff because I couldn't open them, so I tended to cheat when it came to locks and computers.

Unlock is just a ~ away.

[iHap]

You bought the guide? O_o
Yes, because I am one of those people who will spend 500Hours with FO:NV so having the guide is just awesome. Also, it comes with cool stuff.

Also, these are really nice having up on my wall in front of my computer.
Huge pull out poster map of the huge New Vegas landscape with points of interest, main sights, and major landmarks labeled.

Exclusive maps detailing the New Vegas world!

[Vigil80]

I like a shooty, charismatic, brainy type usually. But, I'll probably go through character creation a couple times experimenting with the options.

The real question is whether you'll be going hardcore or not. I probably will, and I'll likely leave off the "wacky wasteland" or whatever perk, too. I want my first playthrough to be for realz.

[Scaryfaced]

I always struggled sticking with a character theme. The first time through, I took the bland altruistic stealthy rifle/shotgun combo with heavy science and lock picking skills. Eventually I got bored of playing a goody two shoes, so I went crazy evil the second time around. I turned my guy into a idiotic sledge hammer weilding cannibal maniac. The first few dick moves I made actually made me feel bad, but eventually it became second nature.

As for New Vegas, I kinda want to create a bit of a backstory. Like perhaps I'm a smart mouthed theif with an itchy trigger finger, but a heart of gold. Or I'm an ex military sniper who's seen to much and become a bit sociopathic. Maybe I'm a formerly rich, now destitute sport hunter who's intensely racist and xenophobic. I'll keep hammering out the details, but I like the idea of making choices based on a character type, rather than being as good or as bad as I can be.

[jpublic]

Even when I try to play another character theme (like when I try to play as if I was Clint Eastwood's Nameless character) I tend to end up as a low-stealth small gunner who has uber-high science and lockpick.

I love the small guns, and having lots of them, and I don't like being locked out of anywhere.

[MagGnome]

I've been nervous about Obsidian developing this, but I hope that turns out to be a non-issue. It would be great if they could recapture the humor and darkness of the first two games, and it sounds like they may have.


If you can run FO3, you can run FNV. The system requirements are almost identical and so are the visuals.

I wouldn't expect any problems.

I really hope that they've upgraded the engine to better handle modern systems. Fallout 3 has some issues on multi-core processors and Windows 7 64bit, and if this game does as well I'll be quite annoyed.

Disclaimer: I'm well aware that many people have never had problems. That's great!

With that said, Fallout 3 is awesome and I really hope this game is at least as good, if not better.


As for New Vegas, I kinda want to create a bit of a backstory. Like perhaps I'm a smart mouthed theif with an itchy trigger finger, but a heart of gold. Or I'm an ex military sniper who's seen to much and become a bit sociopathic. Maybe I'm a formerly rich, now destitute sport hunter who's intensely racist and xenophobic. I'll keep hammering out the details, but I like the idea of making choices based on a character type, rather than being as good or as bad as I can be.

That's a really fun idea!

[jpublic]

October 19th can't come fast enough for me.

My wife, however, would like it to be known that she hopes Obsidian has to delay the game a bit. Like to 2014.

[JayK47]

So, iHap, when did you pre-order? And damn, that game guide is tempting. At least that is still is stock.

[iHap]

So, iHap, when did you pre-order? And damn, that game guide is tempting. At least that is still is stock.
It shows it in the image ;)

September 1st. I think that's when Pre-Orders started, give or take.

[Mung Beans]

hehehe I pre-ordered my copy the day my suppliers started updating their webstie for pre-orders, got a collector's edition too :).

I loved my little metal lunch box from fallout 3, man they have to have the boxing gloves laced with metal like in fallout 2!

[Khrymsyn]

I think I'm going to hold off on this one... only because I kinda feel burnt on F3. I bought the game when it first came out, and then all this DLC comes out for like $20 a pop. Then steam runs a sale in where I get F3 with all of the DLC for less than what I paid for the game to begin with and cheaper than all the DLC combined. So here I sit with 2 FO3 copies, but only 1 of them ever being used.

Think this time I'll just wait. Though I really want it =P

[Ghostbear]

I think I'm going to hold off on this one... only because I kinda feel burnt on F3. I bought the game when it first came out, and then all this DLC comes out for like $20 a pop. Then steam runs a sale in where I get F3 with all of the DLC for less than what I paid for the game to begin with and cheaper than all the DLC combined. So here I sit with 2 FO3 copies, but only 1 of them ever being used.

Think this time I'll just wait. Though I really want it =P

or $10, but whatever.

[Wackman3000]

I think I'm going to hold off on this one... only because I kinda feel burnt on F3. I bought the game when it first came out, and then all this DLC comes out for like $20 a pop. Then steam runs a sale in where I get F3 with all of the DLC for less than what I paid for the game to begin with and cheaper than all the DLC combined. So here I sit with 2 FO3 copies, but only 1 of them ever being used.

Think this time I'll just wait. Though I really want it =P

If this is your strategy, be prepared to pass on nearly every big release game or games that plan a lot of DLC for at least 6-12 months. Mass Effect 2, Dragon Age, Borderlands, Fallout 3... These are all games that see "Game of the Year" editions once their sales start to dwindle.

It comes down to how much you want to play the game. Of course games get cheaper later in the life cycle, and these GOTY editions that come packed with DLC are a welcome addition in my eyes for those who did pass initially or were too busy to play.

[Khrymsyn]

Re: Ghostbear - I was preferring to get them on actual media, and for the PC they were sold in 2 packs. Hence, $20.


If this is your strategy, be prepared to pass on nearly every big release game or games that plan a lot of DLC for at least 6-12 months. Mass Effect 2, Dragon Age, Borderlands, Fallout 3... These are all games that see "Game of the Year" editions once their sales start to dwindle.

Oh, I realize that. This is part of a strategy that will ultimately fail, of me trying to convince myself to be more selective in my purchasing, so that hopefully my gaming backlog will be something a little more reasonable, than needing me to quit my job and play solidly for 126 years. =-)
The other piece to this too, is that the majority of the games I really wanted the DLC for, were primarily single-player experiences (at least for me), and therefore, I really should be able to convince myself to enjoy the game on my own time, instead of my recent trend of lack of willpower.

[Farsight]

If I like a game well enough to buy DLC for it, there's no way I'm waiting to buy it. If I don't care about playing it right away, odds are I don't care about DLC for it at all.

I just hope the DLC for Vegas is better than the mostly lackluster efforts for FO3. I'm not going to buy DLC that emphasizes the weakest parts of the game again.

[Vigil80]

So no thoughts about hardcore mode? It is still in there, right?

[Farsight]

I'll be trying Hardcore from the start, hoping it'll cure my need to packrat every bit of trash in the wastelands back to my locker.

It may also affect what kind of character you play. Strength and carrying perks become hugely important instead of minor boosts for convenience. Radiation resistance becomes a bigger deal as well, since you likely can't survive on 'clean' food alone. As long as it's not devastatingly hard it sounds like it should make for a more strategically interesting game.

But I reserve the right to throw a fit and revert back to normal if the game hurts my ego. :)

[iHap]

I'll be playing on the hardcore mod, it's more of a realistic mod anyways. Sounds more fun and gives me something to think about while playing.

[jpublic]

To hell with Hardcore. If I wanted reality, I wouldn't be playing a game. I liked being able to hold zillions of pounds of ammo.

[Ghostbear]

Re: Ghostbear - I was preferring to get them on actual media, and for the PC they were sold in 2 packs. Hence, $20.






Actual media, how quaint, its like people who churn their own butter. ;)

[tacitus]

I loved my little metal lunch box from fallout 3
QFT, I put my pre-order in about 6 weeks ago.

I have my lunch box with a nukacola proudly displayed!

[jpublic]

I was extremely tempted to get the Media version of F:NV, but my living situation made it an impossibility.

[tacitus]

I originally bought the collections edition of FO3 and then I later bought the GOTY edition.
Fallout 3 is one of the few games have have not minded being doubled dipped on, because of the amount of time I have spent playing it. Yes, I would have preferred a DLC box instead of the GOTY version.

[MagGnome]

Actual media, how quaint, its like people who churn their own butter. ;)

I know you're joking, but I know some people who churn their own butter. It's multiple times better than anything you'll find in the store. I was shocked at how delicious it is.


What's hardcore mode anyway? Does it limit the amount of stuff you can carry?


I saw a huge billboard for Fallout: New Vegas in Downtown Minneapolis today. It definitely made me more excited about the game.

[jpublic]

Hardcore mode:



Healing over time rather than instant healing after use of a stimpak
Healing of crippled limbs requires a high medicine skill and medical equipment
Ammunition has weight
Requirement of water consumption to avoid dehydration (death)
Requirement of food consumption to avoid starvation (death)
Requirement of sleeping to avoid sleep deprivation (death)

[Banacek]

Hmm, that's very tempting to do. I think I have to start off in that mode, see how it goes.

[JayK47]

Hardcore doesn't sound so bad. I may give it a try.

[Khrymsyn]

Actual media, how quaint, its like people who churn their own butter. ;)

Hey now. I enjoy churning my own butter. I like to churn my own butter ALL NIGHT LONG.

[MagGnome]

That hardcore mode is intriguing, but I don't think I'd want to do it myself. I used to hate having to consume food in RPGs.

[JayK47]

Well it depends on how they implement it. If you are fighting for your life, then suddenly pass out because you forgot to swig a beer, no thanks. It would be better if you got minuses to stats if you are tired or hungry. I tend to store ammo types I am not using, even though they did not have any weight to them in Fallout 3. I'm way to organized when I play Bethesda games. Weapons locker, armor locker, food in fridge, and so on.

[Superman's Dead]

Well it depends on how they implement it. If you are fighting for your life, then suddenly pass out because you forgot to swig a beer, no thanks. It would be better if you got minuses to stats if you are tired or hungry. I tend to store ammo types I am not using, even though they did not have any weight to them in Fallout 3. I'm way to organized when I play Bethesda games. Weapons locker, armor locker, food in fridge, and so on.

That's a good point. I think that's what it would be like; then as soon as one of your stats hits 0 you're dead.

My first playthrough of FO3 I didn't know about the Megaton house yet as I was roaming. I stumbled upon a Talon Company Base, killed them all, and used it as my home from then on. I think having to have a storehouse would be awesome.

My roommate is doing hardcore from the get-go, and I feel like if I don't do it he'll just be talking mad shit all day.

[MagGnome]

It just seems so rote and pointless to me. Click on this little icon that represents food or you'll die/be weaker. It doesn't really seem to add to the experience, IMHO. Unless food is really hard to come by or something, then what's the point? It turns into more of a chore than anything else.

[Superman's Dead]

It just seems so rote and pointless to me. Click on this little icon that represents food or you'll die/be weaker. It doesn't really seem to add to the experience, IMHO. Unless food is really hard to come by or something, then what's the point? It turns into more of a chore than anything else.

Clean food and water IS really hard to come by. You have to off-set the benefits of using irradiated food/water against the availability of rad-away or whatever the drug was called. It means going through every container hoping for some Purified Water or having to go home.

The sleeping likely means that you'll have to have a series of beds over the Wasteland, because just one that may be distant from a quest location would only hurt you in the long run.

[J Arcane]

It just seems so rote and pointless to me. Click on this little icon that represents food or you'll die/be weaker. It doesn't really seem to add to the experience, IMHO. Unless food is really hard to come by or something, then what's the point? It turns into more of a chore than anything else.
Once upon a time, different ideas existed about game design other than "what's easiest".

People had weird ideas about things like "simulation" and "verisimilitude" and so forth.

It is a foreign concept in today's game design.

[maharahaj]

The sleeping likely means that you'll have to have a series of beds over the Wasteland, because just one that may be distant from a quest location would only hurt you in the long run.

In FO3, you could sleep anywhere, so long as it was free of enemies. Sleeping in a bed/cot gave you some temporary added benefits over sleeping without one though.

[Superman's Dead]

In FO3, you could sleep anywhere, so long as it was free of enemies. Sleeping in a bed/cot gave you some temporary added benefits over sleeping without one though.

Sure, but if they factor quick travel time into time awake (which I'm sure they would in hardcore), you're going to want a place you can rely on to sleep with food/water/ammo in every major sector of the map.

[maharahaj]

Sure, but if they factor quick travel time into time awake (which I'm sure they would in hardcore), you're going to want a place you can rely on to sleep with food/water/ammo in every major sector of the map.

Good point. I hadn't considered the idea that fast travel would count as 'X' amount of hours. Having multiple home bases throughout the wasteland sounds like a good idea if you plan to go the Hardcore route.

I always thought the day/night cycles in FO3 were long, so it is not like you would need to replenish water or food that often or carry too much of it (but it all depends on how often they program the need for one to have to consume food/water). The hardest hardcore item for me personnally is the "stimpacks cure over time versus instantenously" one. It makes absolute sense for it to be there, but I won't want to stand around and wait over a period of time to heal myself so I can venture on.
But who am I kidding...I'll eventurally do it during a second playthrough.

[RandoM51]

making you eat/drink is reatded, even for a supposed 'hardcore' mode.

[MagGnome]

Once upon a time, different ideas existed about game design other than "what's easiest".

People had weird ideas about things like "simulation" and "verisimilitude" and so forth.

It is a foreign concept in today's game design.

You're right. I just want all games to be easy. -_-

I'm sorry if clicking on a virtual apple so that my virtual character doesn't starve sounds really trite to me. What's next? Should he have to take regular bathroom breaks as well? Perhaps I should just fire up The Sims instead?

It's great that other people are enjoying hardcore mode. AWESOME, in fact. I simply stated that I found the idea of having to eat and drink in an RPG to be dull. I don't see any reason to get defensive about it.

[RandoM51]

Is it really hardcore if they don't make you urinate or defecate? I mean come on, you should have to do that and then dispose of it properly so you can't be tracked. I can see it now, there will be ex-lax and metamucil in the cabinet next to the buff-out and rad-away.


Achievement Unlocked!
You have died of constipation!

[Savok]

I'll be playing Hardcore mode because I like the idea of survival in the wasteland, you don't have to. The End.

[RandoM51]

It really isn't a wasteland though, is it? Look at all those people, all those items, all those creatures. There is more going on there than in many cities.

The thing to do would be to make these various 'hardcore' systems individual settings. You could pick and choose whichever of the requirements to tailor the experience to your own personal taste.
I'd go with the "realistic" healing, weight, etc., while leaving eating and drinking off the menu(in no game that has ever required this has it benefited the gameplay).

[Lithium Flower]

I really enjoy the eat/drink/sleep mods for Oblivion/Fallout 3. Also changing the timescale on the fly so intercity travelling times felt much longer. It added such a huge new dimension to the game - made all those quaint little Inns useful, all the differernt types of food more than just alchemy ingredients. Even though I've preordered the game, I might wait for the inevitable deluge of mods to tweak it out before I start playing.

I don't even remember what vanilla oblivion was like!

[Savok]

It really isn't a wasteland though, is it? Look at all those people, all those items, all those creatures. There is more going on there than in many cities.

The thing to do would be to make these various 'hardcore' systems individual settings. You could pick and choose whichever of the requirements to tailor the experience to your own personal taste.
I'd go with the "realistic" healing, weight, etc., while leaving eating and drinking off the menu(in no game that has ever required this has it benefited the gameplay).
Why is it so hard for you to accept that some of us actually enjoy the simulation aspects of certain games? Try to understand, it's not for you, feel free to ignore it.

I expect there will be a mod day one to split all the hardcore rules anyway.

[Superman's Dead]

In hardcore mode food and water essentially have the same function as ammo. Why bother making you find all those bullets! You're just going to use them anyways! It isn't like it makes you think strategically!

[BigJonno]

I can't say that I'm too fussed about hardcore mode, as I think it'll feel a little tacked on. If the game was built from the ground up as a post-apocalyptic survival game, I'd be all over it, but I can see it being inconvenient rather than exciting in NV.

[Savok]

Oh for fuck sake we haven't even played the game yet.

Look at it this way, all those food and drink items that became redundant 30 minutes into Fallout 3 are now useful again.

[Narradisall]

I'll be playing Hardcore.

I want the challenge.

[BigJonno]

Oh for fuck sake we haven't even played the game yet.

I do apologise. We'll just stop talking about games that haven't been released yet, because there is clearly no enjoyment to be had from speculative discussion.

[Vigil80]

Luckily, this is one of those perfect scenarios where the dev has made it totally optional. Those who think it's stupid don't have to do it. Those who want to try it can enable it, and rub it in everyone else's faces. :D

Personally, I'm hoping it's kind of like having a little STALKER in my Fallout by trying hardcore. We'll see if it feels right.

[Wackman3000]

It sounds like a neat feature for those who feel like that sort of thing immerses them more in the game, but I'm glad it's an option.

I'll wait for the eventual mods on the game mode to tweak out the things I wouldn't want in Hardcore, like the eating and such.

[jpublic]

Yeah, if they allow you to select the elements of Hardcore mode you want, I'd be okay with that.

[TheKeck]

It would be interesting if there were a viable disincentive for fast traveling all around the map. I always abuse that ability and it feels wrong to me but it's also so darn convenient. Honestly, I'd probably get really annoyed not being able to do it anymore. :p

[Wackman3000]

It would be interesting if there were a viable disincentive for fast traveling all around the map. I always abuse that ability and it feels wrong to me but it's also so darn convenient. Honestly, I'd probably get really annoyed not being able to do it anymore. :p

Unless they implemented another way to fast travel, (car, horse, etc) Fallout 3 would have been a very tedious game, and one I probably wouldn't bother to finish or snoop around in either.

[TheKeck]

Unless they implemented another way to fast travel, (car, horse, etc) Fallout 3 would have been a very tedious game, and one I probably wouldn't bother to finish or snoop around in either.
Absolutely agreed. I'm not just talking about using fast travel, though, I'm talking about completely abusing the system. OK, I'm in the middle of raiding some underground cavern, hold on a sec, I just need to run across the wasteland to sleep, and then to another corner of the wasteland to sell my crap at the best rate, and then I'll just stop by in this corner of the wasteland to pick up some other oddity I need, OK I'm back. Three days have passed but I expect everything to be sitting here exactly as I left it. :p Let me explore for another half hour and then make that whole journey again. :D

That said, I like having that convenience, so we'd have to see if I'd ever give it up for a bit more "realism".

[J Arcane]

You're right. I just want all games to be easy. -_-

I'm sorry if clicking on a virtual apple so that my virtual character doesn't starve sounds really trite to me. What's next? Should he have to take regular bathroom breaks as well? Perhaps I should just fire up The Sims instead?

It's great that other people are enjoying hardcore mode. AWESOME, in fact. I simply stated that I found the idea of having to eat and drink in an RPG to be dull. I don't see any reason to get defensive about it.
I didn't quite use the right words there, and I was being somewhat smarmy, but I also did have a point.

There's a strong push these days to approach game design as if it is a user interface problem, to make everything as accessible as possible, to strip away all considerations other than efficiency and ease of use and an almost Euro-boardgame-like approach to abstracting and simplifying everything.

Now, I'm generally a big proponent of accessibility, and I've promoted it heavily particularly in the MMO sphere, but some time spent reading and pondering over the age of gaming I really came into my own in, has had me thinking we're missing something.

Barring the occasional PC game, there's no sense of immersion or emulation or simulation anymore, it's like we've just declared all of those ideas to be useless nonsense only for neckbeards and guys who live with their parents, and instead every game has to be designed solely for narrative and "pure game" approaches.

I miss the days when you did something because that's just how it would be if it were real.

[Superman's Dead]

I didn't quite use the right words there, and I was being somewhat smarmy, but I also did have a point.

There's a strong push these days to approach game design as if it is a user interface problem, to make everything as accessible as possible, to strip away all considerations other than efficiency and ease of use and an almost Euro-boardgame-like approach to abstracting and simplifying everything.

Now, I'm generally a big proponent of accessibility, and I've promoted it heavily particularly in the MMO sphere, but some time spent reading and pondering over the age of gaming I really came into my own in, has had me thinking we're missing something.

Barring the occasional PC game, there's no sense of immersion or emulation or simulation anymore, it's like we've just declared all of those ideas to be useless nonsense only for neckbeards and guys who live with their parents, and instead every game has to be designed solely for narrative and "pure game" approaches.

I miss the days when you did something because that's just how it would be if it were real.

What about games like Arkham Asylum and Assassin's Creed, where immersion is pretty much the whole deal? Probably AA moreso. The game makes you feel like an idiot every time Batman gets punched when he absolutely should not.

[RandoM51]

Why is it so hard for you to accept that some of us actually enjoy the simulation aspects of certain games? Try to understand, it's not for you, feel free to ignore it.

If they make the various systems individually enabled I will be able to ignore it.

...and hey, I can understand you want an eating simulation to provide the challenge you don't face feeding yourself in real life. I get it. Maybe if you're really lucky somebody will create a game where you start out with a stick and a hand of seed corn.

Some things are worth simulating and some aren't. After all, like I mentioned previously, I don't see you clamoring for a system of defecation. I'm sure those things vary from person to person.

[Savok]

Admit it, you want Catman's obsession here to actually be playable (http://www.thenerdybird.com/2008/10/nerdy-bird-adores-secret-six-2.html).

EDIT: Hah, and people think I'm overly angry and crazy.

[J Arcane]

If they make the various systems individually enabled I will be able to ignore it.

...and hey, I can understand you want an eating simulation to provide the challenge you don't face feeding yourself in real life. I get it. Maybe if you're really lucky somebody will create a game where you start out with a stick and a hand of seed corn.

Some things are worth simulating and some aren't. After all, like I mentioned previously, I don't see you clamoring for a system of defecation. I'm sure those things vary from person to person.

Admit it, you want Catman's obsession here to actually be playable (http://www.thenerdybird.com/2008/10/nerdy-bird-adores-secret-six-2.html).

EDIT: Hah, and people think I'm overly angry and crazy.

Thanks for proving my point, guys. I love it when people do that.

[Superman's Dead]

I don't get what's so hard to understand about finding clean food and water in a post-apocalyptic nuclear wasteland an added challenge to a game. The search for land/supplies that aren't irradiated are a staple of the genre, it isn't like it was invented solely for the sake of an achievement.

[Banacek]

Hardcore mode does deal with the biggest issue I had with FO3, and that is the fact that ammo had no weight. That just didn't feel right to me. The food thing feels silly, so hopefully there is a mod where you can pick and choose which settings you want.

[Savok]

Thanks for proving my point, guys. I love it when people do that.
Now I'm lost.

I don't get what's so hard to understand about finding clean food and water in a post-apocalyptic nuclear wasteland an added challenge to a game. The search for land/supplies that aren't irradiated are a staple of the genre, it isn't like it was invented solely for the sake of an achievement.

VTbYUd1jUc4

[Vigil80]

I can understand not wanting it to be part of your experience. What I don't understand is the need to repeatedly try to take a dump on it.

Sometimes, I cheat myself a ton of money when I want to play "just for fun." The need to make money is no more necessary in many games, including RPGs, than the need to keep from starving in an optional hard-mode. What about collecting ammo? You're going to find ammo anyway, may as well just make it infinite. Health? Screw that, health packs are too tedious. You're just going to reload if you die, so godmode for all.

Some of you need to be careful; you might be on the verge of a crisis. Many things in many games come apart if you pick at them too much. ;)

I hope hardcore mode catches on in this and other games. A precious few titles are still keeping the simulation dream alive, and it's a good fit for this game. :) Even so, I'm not saying anyone should play it if it isn't fun for them, or that it's superior to the normal mode. But it isn't necessary or correct to belittle it.

[Wasson_]

I played Fallout like exclusively in real time. I enjoyed it as a straight-up FPS for it's area specific damage merits and wide selection of weapons. I mean...sure it's clunky...but playing the game just using VATS just feels very lame to me. It's easy enough without it...If I were to use it for anything other than throwing grenades, I wouldn't enjoy it nearly as much as I do.

Besides it's equally as awesome to watch a raider disintegrate from a point blank shotgun blast in real time.

But when I play I suspect I'll play as I always have. Wasteland Weapon-Master.

[Vigil80]

I hope VATS has been tweaked/improved. One of the things I had to find a mod for was the ridiculous, unrealistic speed (in my perception) at which VATS caused your weapons to degrade.

[TheKeck]

I hope VATS has been tweaked/improved. One of the things I had to find a mod for was the ridiculous, unrealistic speed (in my perception) at which VATS caused your weapons to degrade.
Did your guns degrade slower if you didn't use VATS? That's news to me.

[Vigil80]

From the Fallout wiki:
There is a 15% boost in the chance for a critical hit in V.A.T.S. mode, but weapons degrade at 4 times the regular rate.
I probably shouldn't lean on VATS so much, but ordinary combat was just not as fun in FO3. (Except for the sniper rifle, whose range was not well represented in unmodded VATS. That's something else I hope is addressed out of the box in New Vegas.) Even with the supposed benefits of VATS, 4x degredation rate was just too much. Not to mention that it made no sense from a flavor perspective. Your gun is taking more abuse because... you're aiming extra carefully?

I'll be trying harder to save VATS for clutch situations in New Vegas.

[Vandabo]

Chalk me up to the "ammo should have weight but I don't want to have to feed myself" camp.

I always felt pretty ridiculous having hundreds of rounds of each kind of ammo in my inventory in FO3. In stark contrast to FO1&2, where it was a labor of love to carry some rare ammo until you found the awesome gun that fired it. Like keeping the BB's you got right at the beginning until you found the Red Ryder BB gun in a random encounter.

Having to carry ammo for only one or two weapons will make weapon class choice much more important, and I like things that make character specialization important, even if it is sometimes aggravating.

[TheKeck]

From the Fallout wiki:

I probably shouldn't lean on VATS so much, but ordinary combat was just not as fun in FO3. (Except for the sniper rifle, whose range was not well represented in unmodded VATS. That's something else I hope is addressed out of the box in New Vegas.) Even with the supposed benefits of VATS, 4x degredation rate was just too much. Not to mention that it made no sense from a flavor perspective. Your gun is taking more abuse because... you're aiming extra carefully?

I'll be trying harder to save VATS for clutch situations in New Vegas.
Like I say, that's news to me. As with most people, it always struck me as ridiculous how fast the weapons degraded. I just didn't realize that fighting in real time could mitigate it some. Interesting.

[Scaryfaced]

I found inventory management in Stalker, specifically how you had to manage your ammo and extra guns by weight, to be a very compelling and interesting part of the game. Do I bring my trusty shot gun with me or should I ditch it in favor of the new automatic that I found? It adds an extra layer of immersion to the feeling of scrounging in a post apoc world. In FO3, I'd just collect mini nukes and sell them for spare cash without a second thought.

Now as long as the eating mechanic is well balanced with having to control radiation poisoning, I'm all for it. I remember food and water being basically pointless in the original FO3. I always had more than enough stimpacks to keep me healthy without ever having to worry about radiation. If all else failed, a quick nap on an cot or bed roll I came across fixed me right up. Making food mean something might be a fun addition to an already deep and satisfying experience.

[maharahaj]

Like I say, that's news to me. As with most people, it always struck me as ridiculous how fast the weapons degraded. I just didn't realize that fighting in real time could mitigate it some. Interesting.

Interesting...I never realized VATS excellerated weapon degeneration so quickly as well. But except for the beginning of the game, where I found Chinese swords to be somewhat rare, every other weapon always seemed to be found in great quantities. I was always dick deep in guns/armor that could be used to repair whatever items(s) I was currently carrying. If anything, I hope VATS deplete the wear and tear of weapons/armor even more in FO:NV, so as to curb my abuse of the VATS system.

[jpublic]

I didn't notice the VATS thing since it evened out in the long run. Yes, your guns degrade many times faster in VATS. You also do many multiples more damage in VATS, so it evens out. I can either sit there and drill the Deathclaw for 10 minutes with the Chinese Assault Rifle, or can I blow his head off with VATS. Either way, the wear is similar.

[MagGnome]

I do apologise. We'll just stop talking about games that haven't been released yet, because there is clearly no enjoyment to be had from speculative discussion.

Haven't you figured this out by now?

I'm of the mind that we should just shut down the whole website now, as any discussion that's not "OMG THIS IS AWESOME!" is seemingly frowned upon.

Unless of course everyone hates the topic of discussion, in which case actually liking said topic is frowned upon.


I can understand not wanting it to be part of your experience. What I don't understand is the need to repeatedly try to take a dump on it.

I wasn't "taking a dump" on anything. I just stated that hardcore mode (particularly the eating/drinking component) didn't interest me, and some people responded as if I had punched their baby.

[MagGnome]

I didn't quite use the right words there, and I was being somewhat smarmy, but I also did have a point.

There's a strong push these days to approach game design as if it is a user interface problem, to make everything as accessible as possible, to strip away all considerations other than efficiency and ease of use and an almost Euro-boardgame-like approach to abstracting and simplifying everything.

Now, I'm generally a big proponent of accessibility, and I've promoted it heavily particularly in the MMO sphere, but some time spent reading and pondering over the age of gaming I really came into my own in, has had me thinking we're missing something.

Barring the occasional PC game, there's no sense of immersion or emulation or simulation anymore, it's like we've just declared all of those ideas to be useless nonsense only for neckbeards and guys who live with their parents, and instead every game has to be designed solely for narrative and "pure game" approaches.

I miss the days when you did something because that's just how it would be if it were real.

Ah, I see what you are saying now. I was being quite defensive and figured that you were taking on the role of "Thread Police", something that's been popping up on this site more and more lately much to my dismay.

I actually completely agree with what you're saying. I hate how simplified most game releases have become. One of the reasons I've been such a fan of PC games is that they are generally deeper than console titles. This isn't always the case, of course, but it seems to be true more often than not. Even PC games are greatly watered down from the "good old days", which I find unfortunate. A lot of the personality has been sucked out of them.

[jpublic]

OTOH, I view the ideas of 'simulation' and 'immersion' to be secondary, hell, tertiary to the idea/goal of Fun.

Having to worry abotu eating/sleeping/drinking, or worrying overmuch about how much I can carry (see Stalker) is Not Fun to me. If it gets in the way of me playing the game, it needs to be cut. If it becomes more a concern than the plot or main gameplay, it needs to be cut.

I'm not trying to attack anyone or deride anyone's POV, I'm trying to understand. How does adding the concern of eating/drinking/etc add fun to the game for you? What am I missing?

[Panthera]

If they make the various systems individually enabled I will be able to ignore it.

...and hey, I can understand you want an eating simulation to provide the challenge you don't face feeding yourself in real life. I get it. Maybe if you're really lucky somebody will create a game where you start out with a stick and a hand of seed corn.

Some things are worth simulating and some aren't. After all, like I mentioned previously, I don't see you clamoring for a system of defecation. I'm sure those things vary from person to person.

There's a huuuuuge difference between systems like defecation that can be abstracted into rest time with no loss of realism and actual concerns like food, water and ammunition.

[Vigil80]

I wasn't "taking a dump" on anything. I just stated that hardcore mode (particularly the eating/drinking component) didn't interest me, and some people responded as if I had punched their baby.
One reason why I didn't name you in that assessment.

[Vandabo]

OTOH, I view the ideas of 'simulation' and 'immersion' to be secondary, hell, tertiary to the idea/goal of Fun.

Having to worry abotu eating/sleeping/drinking, or worrying overmuch about how much I can carry (see Stalker) is Not Fun to me. If it gets in the way of me playing the game, it needs to be cut. If it becomes more a concern than the plot or main gameplay, it needs to be cut.

I'm not trying to attack anyone or deride anyone's POV, I'm trying to understand. How does adding the concern of eating/drinking/etc add fun to the game for you? What am I missing?

I think that some people only play games to escape reality. I do that too, but other times I play games because I want to experience a different reality. It's like the virtual reality thread in the Lounge right now. I play games that are simulations because I want to get as close to that experience as I can. The immersion is the entire point. It doesn't get in the way of the game, it is the game.

There is of course a spectrum that exists between pure arcade games that are essentially just puzzles and/or reflex tests, and pure simulations like Microsoft Flight Sim. The problem is when there is a game in the middle somewhere, and certain people want it to tend more towards one side or the other. Unfortunately, the best that any game dev can do is to program in options that allow the player to adjust the game to their liking. This is always a compromise though, and there will always be people that are unhappy with it, no matter how well it is done.

[MagGnome]

One reason why I didn't name you in that assessment.

Fair enough. Perhaps I'm just overly sensitive. :p

[Scaryfaced]

I think it's been pretty clearly discussed as to what eating/sleeping/drinking and resource management adds to the experience. The eating and drinking adds extra challenges to the world through having to manage your health and balance it with radiation sickness from something other than short cutting through some water. Sleeping seems to add a layer of strategy about best knowing your surroundings. Establishing safe houses or making the random beds strewn around the wasteland a little more important. Ammo weight forces you to make decisions about the weapons you carry and vicariously making fights a little more challenging, probably making perk selection a little more important.

If those impeed your ability to enjoy yourself, then by all means, no hardcore mode for you.

[Hawkzombie]

I eat lead and shit babies.

[Superman's Dead]

In addition to the challenge/realism, finding food and drink is something post apocalyptic media has always included. People lived in Vaults for a reason, and the whole premise of Fallout 1 was the necessity of clean water. It isn't like they pulled the idea out of nowhere.

[Narradisall]

Pffft, you realism mode pussies.

I only eat and drink the food and drink my in game character finds while playing realism mode. If he don't eat, I DON'T EAT. Everytime I'm hurt I stab myself in the appropriate area with my letter opener.

That's real realism mode, bitches.

[RandoM51]

99% of the food in the fallout universe is irradiated. You'd have to be stupid to eat that if you don't have to. :P

Nobody has explained to me how eat/sleeping systems add challenge but a defecation system doesn't.

Mark my words: bury your poop or you'll be easily tracked.

I've thought up some additional hardcore modes that people can add to any game to add that challenge that they so earnestly desire.

1. Play blindfolded. This hardcore mode will work for just about any game and is very easy for the end-user to implement.

2. Play using your body as the mousepad.

3. Play while standing on your head.

4. Play the game in a language you don't speak. Oblivion's storyline---for example---is just as entertaining in French as it is in English and I don't even speak French!

See there? No reason to wait for developers to add challenge to today's easy games when you can easily add that challenge yourself.

[J Arcane]

Nobody has explained it to you because they have the sense not to indulge your trolling.

[Savok]

Not even Dwarf Fortress includes a sewer system, and it simulates layers of skin. If you're this obsessed with scat play however I'm sure the Internet has many forums to indulge your interest. In the meantime, stop being so fucking childish.

[Superman's Dead]

No, guys, he has a point.

I'm probably going to play blindfolded now. I don't want to feel like a little girl when I play my post-apocalyptic video game.

[Panthera]

99% of the food in the fallout universe is irradiated. You'd have to be stupid to eat that if you don't have to. :P

Nobody has explained to me how eat/sleeping systems add challenge but a defecation system doesn't.

Mark my words: bury your poop or you'll be easily tracked.

You can fail at finding enough food and water, but you can't fail at pooping.

If tracking is a concern, why wouldn't you bury it or take the necessary precaution? This is not a decision that needs to be made, therefore it is no extra challenge.

[TheKeck]

If tracking is a concern,
Come to think of it, I don't really remember anybody trying to track me in Fallout 3.

[icronic]

You can fail at finding enough food and water, but you can't fail at pooping.

If tracking is a concern, why wouldn't you bury it or take the necessary precaution? This is not a decision that needs to be made, therefore it is no extra challenge.

Ah but it is!

Imagine this. You're off raiding a super-mutant lair but your stomach starts acting up. Uh oh, I guess you shouldn't have eaten that bbq'd rat with extra curry sauce the other night. Now trying to relive yourself in such dangerous territory is never advisable, so you decide just to hold it until it's safe. But oh no! A super-mutant just jumped out of hiding to give you a good whack with his sledge before you had even the slightest chance of defending yourself. Look, you've now soiled yourself way to go!

Now they can smell you coming and if you happen to be lucky enough to escape with your life you can be certain that other wastelanders are going to maintain a healthy distance from you now. Guess you'll have to take your chances an have a bath in some of that lovely irradiated water.

Besides, forget finding food... What about toilet paper? Gotta have good hygiene after all otherwise you're risking weird skin ailments and infection!

[Panthera]

You are full of shit.

[Wasson_]

well...no but those talon company jerks sure would show up at the most "inopportune" times!

I imagine the "Bury your shit" Perk, it could have made it so you don't get followed so easily / reduce random encounters in the old games...? Just replace the "survivalist" skill from the first game with "shit burying" and they'd be set.

[Wasson_]

Ah but it is!

Imagine this. You're off raiding a super-mutant lair but your stomach starts acting up. Uh oh, I guess you shouldn't have eaten that bbq'd rat with extra curry sauce the other night. Now trying to relive yourself in such dangerous territory is never advisable, so you decide just to hold it until it's safe. But oh no! A super-mutant just jumped out of hiding to give you a good whack with his sledge before you had even the slightest chance of defending yourself. Look, you've now soiled yourself way to go!


Not to mention the prospects of diarrhea filling up your robot-pants when wearing powered armor. With a % chance to short-out the walking circuitry, freezing you in place until you take the armor off. You'll have to find one of those waste-land scientists to specially equip ass-less robot-pants. less armor protection...but breezy and convenient! Also gives you interesting dialogue options with some people.

[MagGnome]

You guys are a hoot. :D


Not even Dwarf Fortress includes a sewer system, and it simulates layers of skin. If you're this obsessed with scat play however I'm sure the Internet has many forums to indulge your interest. In the meantime, stop being so fucking childish.

Come to think of it, you're right! The Dwarves in DF apparently don't go to the bathroom. :eek:

[Hawkzombie]

Maybe that's why they usually go insane.

[MagGnome]

That certainly makes sense.

[Savok]

Come to think of it, you're right! The Dwarves in DF apparently don't go to the bathroom. :eek:
It's a hotly debated topic on the DF forum, but Toady has no interest in DF being known as the game you can drown an attacking army in dwarf excrement.

[MagGnome]

Too bad, as that sounds pretty awesome. :D

[jpublic]

See, now that would probably be the funniest DF LP ever.

[RandoM51]

Not long now. I'm looking forward to seeing if the wasteland has toilet paper.

[jpublic]

I'm at the 'antsy for game' stage of anticipation.

Of course, I won't be able to play until end of day Tuesday, as Valve won't unlock it until 3pm (my time) or thereabouts.

[Vigil80]

Crap, I forgot about Steam time. Oh well, Maybe they'll at least do a pre-load to cut down on the wait.

[ShivaX]

Crap, I forgot about Steam time. Oh well, Maybe they'll at least do a pre-load to cut down on the wait.

Steam preload for NV started last night sometime.

[jpublic]

Yeah, preload is available. The real kicker is when they actually release it to play.

[Vigil80]

Heh, neat.
At more than half a million words long, the strategy guide for Fallout: New Vegas will be the biggest ever released, and will dwarf famously giant literary classics like War and Peace. It’s also roughly the same size as the script for one of designer Chris Avellone’s previous games, Planescape: Torment.

[MagGnome]

I saw that thing about the strategy guide. It seems like a cheesy promo to me.

They forget to mention that War & Peace will still be studied 100 years from now, whereas the Prima Official Strategy Guide(tm) for Fallout: NV will be piled up in a landfill somewhere. :p

[JRR006]

Anticipation reaching critical levels. By tomorrow it might even be full-blown excitement.

[SilentScreams]

I sort of want this game because I loved Fallout 3, but...Obsidian.

I don't think they've ever made a game that I've liked. I tend to associate them with buggy messes.

[BigJonno]

I sort of want this game because I loved Fallout 3, but...Obsidian.

I don't think they've ever made a game that I've liked. I tend to associate them with buggy messes.

I've liked all of Obsidian's games despite them being buggy messes.

[Savok]

I will always maintain KOTOR2 was a better game then the first (which was pretty damn good to begin with) and would of gone down as a classic if the game had actually been finished.

Granted NWN2 was fairly forgettable. Still better then Bioware's NWN campaigns though, which were universally terrible.

[RandoM51]

I will always maintain KOTOR2 was a better game then the first (which was pretty damn good to begin with) and would of gone down as a classic if the game had actually been finished.

It is a better game, though that isn't saying much. They're both crappy games that most would recognize as such if they weren't blinded by the Star Wars license. Just look at how Jade Empire did without it.


Granted NWN2 was fairly forgettable. Still better then Bioware's NWN campaigns though, which were universally terrible.

NWN2's campaign was pretty good, IMHO. Had some nasty bugs at the start, but after patched up I really liked it. I enjoyed some of the non-traditional stuff they added like building up your castle. The first NWN2 expansion, Mask of the Betrayer, is the best RPG since Baldur's Gate 2.

[Savok]

I remember enjoying NWN2, I just don't remember any details of it. Couldn't even recall if I'd beaten the game until I realized I'd imported a completed save into the expansion.

And yes being Star Wars helped a lot with both titles, indeed it was the alternate takes on Star Wars that made the experience what it was. You can't just say "this is crap except for all the interesting things it did".

All Jade Empire cemented for me was Bioware can't do anything well outside of science fiction. It was still ok anyway, I forgive a lot for lesbians.

[SilentScreams]

Jade Empire is actually one of Bioware's better games IMO.

[Savok]

It's their best non-sci fi game, which is fucking sad.

[RandoM51]

Baldur's Gate is better than Jade Empire, much, much, much better. I think DA:O is a bit better than Jade Empire too, at least on PC.

[BigJonno]

I've enjoyed all of their games, although I loathe the single-player campaign in NWN. For me, that was the biggest disappointment in videogame history.

[MagGnome]

I've started getting back into Fallout 3, and I'm having a great time. I gave up on the game earlier in the year as it kept crashing on me, but so far that hasn't happened again. *knock on wood*

Hopefully by the time I get through FO3 and the add-ons New Vegas will be half-off. :)

[Vigil80]

I saw that thing about the strategy guide. It seems like a cheesy promo to me.

They forget to mention that War & Peace will still be studied 100 years from now, whereas the Prima Official Strategy Guide(tm) for Fallout: NV will be piled up in a landfill somewhere. :p
Thanks, Buzz Killington. ;)

I may or may not ever lay eyes on the guide. I'm more enthused about what the length of the guide says about the game.

[MagGnome]

Thanks, Buzz Killington. ;)

I may or may not ever lay eyes on the guide. I'm more enthused about what the length of the guide says about the game.

I'm here to help. :D

[jpublic]

But how do you *know* that War and Peace will still be studied, while the guide won't? For all you know, there could be a global cataclysm, and 100+ years from now the survivors will be considering game guides the pinnacle of human endeavor and drinking aged pepsi (name the ref).

You don't *know*, man.

:D

Seriously, though, game guides are getting out of hand. And I'm speaking as a guy who used to collect them.

[SilentScreams]

As far as I remember, the only game guide I've ever bought was for Pokemon Blue & Red back in high school.

These days, most games will hold your hand enough that a guide is simply not needed. There are exceptions of course...mostly Japanese games now that I think about it. They haven't really figured out user friendliness yet.

[jpublic]

I used to be pretty diligent about getting guides, now, not so much.

THe reason was, even as recent as the PS2 days, a lot of games had hidden shit you could ony find if you were completely anal about exploring *everywhere* at every opportunity, or if you had a guide. Even worse, there were the games with special endings and the like you could only get if you had read the guide.

[MagGnome]

But how do you *know* that War and Peace will still be studied, while the guide won't? For all you know, there could be a global cataclysm, and 100+ years from now the survivors will be considering game guides the pinnacle of human endeavor and drinking aged pepsi (name the ref).

You don't *know*, man.

:D

Seriously, though, game guides are getting out of hand. And I'm speaking as a guy who used to collect them.

I don't get the reference, but I still found your post amusing. :)


As far as I remember, the only game guide I've ever bought was for Pokemon Blue & Red back in high school.

These days, most games will hold your hand enough that a guide is simply not needed. There are exceptions of course...mostly Japanese games now that I think about it. They haven't really figured out user friendliness yet.

Oddly enough that's the only game guide I've ever purchased as well! It's still floating around my place in one of my storage boxes.

I agree that most games these days are so shallow that I don't see the point in getting a guide. Fallout: New Vegas is obviously an exception, but that's what the Internet (especially Wikis!) is for.

[jpublic]

Aged Pepsi = Keith Laumer's Retief books. Excellent absurdist sci-fi.


Do we know anything about the soundtrack? I know that in FO3's case, I was really irritated by how small the offerings were for 3 Dog, especially considering many of the songs were in the Creative Commons. With FONV, are they giving us a more extensive track list?

[johnperkins21]

Do we know anything about the soundtrack? I know that in FO3's case, I was really irritated by how small the offerings were for 3 Dog, especially considering many of the songs were in the Creative Commons. With FONV, are they giving us a more extensive track list?

I don't think we know too much about it other than what was in this Q&A with the Playstation Blog:

Q: I'm interested to know more about the music score that will be piped through our Pip Boys for New Vegas. Will there be more variety? (thanks @Peligrie)

A: We have three separate radio stations in Fallout: New Vegas. There's New Vegas Radio, which has the kind of songs you've come to expect from a Fallout game - hosted by Mr. New Vegas (voiced by Wayne Newton). Then there's Black Mountain Radio, which is more classic country-focused. And finally there's Mojave Music Radio, which is similar to NVR, only without the news stories from Mr. New Vegas.

Of course that's just the radio. If you never turn on the radio at all, you'll be treated to a new score by Inon Zur, featuring a string quartet, samples from past Fallout games, and some very cool location-specific themes. (http://blog.us.playstation.com/2010/10/14/your-fallout-new-vegas-ps3-questions-answered-hardcore-mode-morality-combat-and-more/)

[MagGnome]

I'm hoping that there is a much larger number of songs in the game. It shouldn't be hard to do, considering just how many great songs are in the public domain from that era.

I'm playing through FO3 right now, and the repetition of the songs gets somewhat annoying. I want to have the radio on so that I can hear the news updates from 3Dog, but even those repeat far too often. Perhaps I'm just not progressing quickly enough.

[jpublic]

Mag - there's a mod call 'More Where That Came From' from the Fallout Nexus. You can get up to 100 additional songs (which I highly recommend doing) for 3Dog's library.

[RandoM51]

I don't like guides at all, particularly for games which feature discovery as one of their main components.

[frederec]

I agree that most games these days are so shallow that I don't see the point in getting a guide. Fallout: New Vegas is obviously an exception, but that's what the Internet (especially Wikis!) is for.

I don't buy guides nearly as much as I used to, but I do still run into games (mostly oddball JRPGs) where the strategy guide has information I never find on the internet. Or at least, it's better organized in the official guide.

[MagGnome]

Mag - there's a mod call 'More Where That Came From' from the Fallout Nexus. You can get up to 100 additional songs (which I highly recommend doing) for 3Dog's library.

You should PM me with a list of recommended mods. I'd really appreciate it.

[jpublic]

You should PM me with a list of recommended mods. I'd really appreciate it.

That's the only one I use.

http://www.fallout3nexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=1418

[MagGnome]

Thanks for the link! I assume the mod is stable?

[tacitus]

Mag - there's a mod call 'More Where That Came From' from the Fallout Nexus. You can get up to 100 additional songs (which I highly recommend doing) for 3Dog's library.

There is also a quest mod : the mantis imperative (http://www.fallout3nexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=12296) in which you can get another selection music of additional at the "end" of a nice quest. BTW all of "puce moose"'s quest mods are excellent.

[jpublic]

Thanks for the link! I assume the mod is stable?

I found it to be remarkably stable. The only problems I ever noticed were the standard DLC related radio problems, like 3dog talking about Broken Steel stuff at game start.

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S using Tapatalk.

[Mr. Murphy]

Is your first character going to be a game version of yourself, a game version of another fictional character, or your own invention?

[Rogue_hunter]

My first character is always based off of myself, usually good. Second playthrough is pure concentrated Evil, David Warner in Time Bandits type evil. Not sure on what kinds of skills each character will focus on, likely one basic soldier and one stealth melee type.

[Vigil80]

Same here, first character is a Larry Stu good guy.

[johnperkins21]

Same here, first character is a Larry Stu good guy.

What a coincidence, I was thinking of making my first character a Disco Stu good guy.

[jpublic]

I think my first character's going to be an entry in the Clint Eastwood Playstyle Project. Mostly good, but amoral as all fsck.

[Farsight]

I think my first character's going to be an entry in the Clint Eastwood Playstyle Project. Mostly good, but amoral as all fsck.

That's how I'd describe my playing 'as myself'. Not sure if that's scary or awesome, but I'm sure my character would go with awesome. :)

[jpublic]

It's actually a remarkably fun way to play. Just take all those Clint Eastwood spaghetti westerns, and at key moments ask yourself 'What would Clint Eastwood do?'

[Wackman3000]

I play like myself... if I were in a video game world.

Which means I am the same asshole, but I kill people who cross me and pilfer nearly everything in sight.

[TheKeck]

I'm really confused. What does it mean to be good but amoral?

[J Arcane]

It's actually a remarkably fun way to play. Just take all those Clint Eastwood spaghetti westerns, and at key moments ask yourself 'What would Clint Eastwood do?'
I did this with The Doctor in Mass Effect.

It worked out AMAZINGLY well.

It helped that the writing in that game was bang on for a UNIT-ish Doctor Who.

[MagGnome]

I'm not sure yet what my first character will be. I always hem and haw during character creation in RPGs.

[SilentScreams]

I'm really confused. What does it mean to be good but amoral?

I did wonder.

Maybe it's like Batman but without the reluctance to kill folk that deserve it.

[Farsight]

See: Timothy Olyphant in Deadwood.

Or: Timothy Olyphant in Justified.

[Mr. Murphy]

See: Timothy Olyphant in Deadwood.

Or: Timothy Olyphant in Justified.

I've been re-watching Deadwood, and I don't see how you can call him amoral - the cocksucker is full of morals - works hard, respects women, believes in justice...

I think some people here are confusing "amoral" with "badass". :D

Amoral
–adjective
1.
not involving questions of right or wrong; without moral quality; neither moral nor immoral.
2.
having no moral standards, restraints, or principles; unaware of or indifferent to questions of right or wrong.

Think chaotic neutral and you're on the right track. If you believe in justice but are willing to break the rules to get it (i.e. Dirty Harry) you are not amoral, you're just badass.

[jpublic]

I admit it was probably a poor word choice, but I couldn't think of a better word. For example, take Eastwood's The Stanger of High Plains Drifer. This is a man who is, in fact, helping the town, but at the same time brutalizes and robs the people in the town.

Hell, take his 'The Man With No Name' character. He was primarily a decent character, but was a bona fide *ass* who would screw with people for shits and giggles.


From Fallout 3:

-the town with all the ex-kids (which name I can't remember) that you helped defend from the Super Mutants. I helped them get robots, and gave them some gear, but in the end, I made them survive or fall on their own
-when I left the vault, I gave what's her name the gun
-when I called to return to the vault, I helped out the 'good' side, but when I was banished I turned around and destroyed the water-chip.
-when I helped convince the people of Tenpenny towers to let in the ghouls, I left them alone until I discovered they killed off the residents. At that point, some fair play came into effect and I killed off the ghouls. In another attempt (since I lost the save), I ended up just killing the ghouls when they told me they were going to attack.

[Mr. Murphy]

I admit it was probably a poor word choice, but I couldn't think of a better word. For example, take Eastwood's The Stanger of High Plains Drifer. This is a man who is, in fact, helping the town, but at the same time brutalizes and robs the people in the town.

Hell, take his 'The Man With No Name' character. He was primarily a decent character, but was a bona fide *ass* who would screw with people for shits and giggles.

High Plains Drifter definitely fits, I guess I was just thinking of all the times Clint was basically Dr. House with a gun.


From Fallout 3:

-the town with all the ex-kids (which name I can't remember) that you helped defend from the Super Mutants. I helped them get robots, and gave them some gear, but in the end, I made them survive or fall on their own
-when I left the vault, I gave what's her name the gun
-when I called to return to the vault, I helped out the 'good' side, but when I was banished I turned around and destroyed the water-chip.
-when I helped convince the people of Tenpenny towers to let in the ghouls, I left them alone until I discovered they killed off the residents. At that point, some fair play came into effect and I killed off the ghouls. In another attempt (since I lost the save), I ended up just killing the ghouls when they told me they were going to attack.


Yeah, you sound pretty amoral. :p

[MagGnome]

I know this is off-topic, but does anyone know of a mod that disables GFWL but let's me keep my saves? I tried the Fallout Mod Manager. It disabled GFWL, but I couldn't access my saves either.

GFWL failed to load three times in a row, so I had to keep force quitting the game. What a buggy POS. :(

[Mr. Murphy]

I know this is off-topic, but does anyone know of a mod that disables GFWL but let's me keep my saves? I tried the Fallout Mod Manager. It disabled GFWL, but I couldn't access my saves either.

GFWL failed to load three times in a row, so I had to keep force quitting the game. What a buggy POS. :(

If you go to the Fallout 3 Nexus, I believe there is a mod specifically for disabling GFWL, but I don't know if it keeps your saves. I am using it and I never noticed in interfering with mine.

Also, if you only get one mod, get Mart's Mutant Mod. The way it changes the enemies in subtle ways so that they aren't all cookie-cutter copies of each other adds a lot to the game.

If you only get two mods, consider Fellout. It makes the game look so much better, without removing any of that wasteland ambiance. I believe it removes a green tinted filter over the image, among other changes.

I'd link you but I'm too busy watching the sidebar on the frontpage to try and post in whatever thread you post in.

[BigJonno]

I tend to play the "generally good, but doesn't take shit" kinda character in Fallout. Some people just need to be shot. Like the Overseer.

[MagGnome]

If you go to the Fallout 3 Nexus, I believe there is a mod specifically for disabling GFWL, but I don't know if it keeps your saves. I am using it and I never noticed in interfering with mine.

Also, if you only get one mod, get Mart's Mutant Mod. The way it changes the enemies in subtle ways so that they aren't all cookie-cutter copies of each other adds a lot to the game.

If you only get two mods, consider Fellout. It makes the game look so much better, without removing any of that wasteland ambiance. I believe it removes a green tinted filter over the image, among other changes.

I'd link you but I'm too busy watching the sidebar on the frontpage to try and post in whatever thread you post in.

Thanks for the recommendations...and for stalking me.

[Savok]

I know this is off-topic, but does anyone know of a mod that disables GFWL but let's me keep my saves? I tried the Fallout Mod Manager. It disabled GFWL, but I couldn't access my saves either.

GFWL failed to load three times in a row, so I had to keep force quitting the game. What a buggy POS. :(
Just copy the saves over along with the DLC.

[Crowe]

I'm going the drug addict murderer route on my first play through. I'm going to shoot my way out of every situation and take as much psycho as I can get my hands on. Should be fun!!

[Vigil80]

Hell yeah.
The Guild's Felicia Day struts her stuff at this weekend's launch party for Fallout: New Vegas held, appropriately enough, in Las Vegas.
http://cache.gawkerassets.com/assets/images/9/2010/10/falloutnewvegas.jpg (http://kotaku.com/5667040/its-a-beautiful-day-for-new-vegas)

[Drayven]

I have character personalities that are based on the names. The first playthrough is usually Saryel, this is the one I consider my main play. She tends to lean towards good but is also out to make sure she survives at any cost. She'll help you if she can but if it's gonna hurt her in the long run you're on your own. Typically that character is focused around stealth and taking out enemies from range. Then there's Aesli, she's the melee focused trouble maker, my evil character. Drayven is typically a heavy weapons type guy who is a do gooder through and through. Amaliel is pretty much the same as Aesli but she focuses on ranged weapons rather than melee. I'd say that Saryel is the one that holds closer to my true nature than the others.

[MagGnome]

Just copy the saves over along with the DLC.

I bought the DLC through Steam (GOTY Edition), so I shouldn't have to worry about that.

I'll copy my saves over though, thanks. :)

[Vigil80]

GiantBomb has the first review up that I've noticed. Sounds like it is as good and bad as we hoped and feared.

http://www.giantbomb.com/fallout-new-vegas/61-25933/reviews/

Bethesda needs to get some more talented folks for their engine work. Gamebryo has never been stellar.

Oh well, still glad to be getting it soon. I'll probably still be on my first playthrough when patches start coming. I'll just grin and bear the issues in the meantime, like with Minecraft.

Edit:
Interesting comment on the review:
Even though it's not unlocked yet, Steam just downloaded a patch for it. Hopefully it fixes some of the issues Jeff experienced.

[OrangePulp]

Live on steam. Get to it.

[kyrieee]

According to GiantBomb the game's as bad technically as every other Obsidian game. Whoever's responsible for that shit needs to lose their job, they have no excuses.

[Pale Ale]

Hell yeah.

http://cache.gawkerassets.com/assets/images/9/2010/10/falloutnewvegas.jpg (http://kotaku.com/5667040/its-a-beautiful-day-for-new-vegas)

Isn't New Vegas, Reno?

[Pale Ale]

According to GiantBomb the game's as bad technically as every other Obsidian game. Whoever's responsible for that shit needs to lose their job, they have no excuses.

I however only call for murder, or firing at least, after experiencing said media.

[Savok]

God dammit Obsidian, even Bethesda kinda/sorta managed to sort out their technical stuff (relatively speaking), work on yours.

[Superman's Dead]

That review seemed exceedingly bland. And to be fair, maybe that's what the game was to him.

[Deadend]

God dammit Obsidian, even Bethesda kinda/sorta managed to sort out their technical stuff (relatively speaking), work on yours.

It's weird that a studio can have such a reputation. As it was easy to say "oh, this or that publisher rushing the game out and not letting them QA" or some other reason.. but at this point, it's been a large range of publishers, a large number of timeframes and engines and franchises and the only consistent thing is Obsidian.

Buuut this is also part of the reason I bought it on PC, quicksaves and hopefully quicker patches/mods to remove technical failures.

[Savok]

Game reviewers are mostly terrible writers.

And yes, always buy this shit on PC, always.

[Savok]

Joystiq's for the 360 (http://www.joystiq.com/2010/10/19/fallout-new-vegas-review/). TL:DR, it's Fallout 3, warts and all, so if you love Fallout 3, here's more. Also it doesn't work, and spends years loading, but what Fallout hasn't.

[kyrieee]

I however only call for murder, or firing at least, after experiencing said media.

Every game they have ever put out has been broken. Whoever is responsible for that is clearly not very good at his / her job and should be replaced by someone who is. It's not a god given right to manage game projects with budgets in the tens of millions dollars, it's something you should leave to people who know what they're doing. If you're responsible for Alpha Protocol then guess what: you fucking suck and you don't deserve to keep your job. Same thing if every game you're responsible for is a broken mess.

KotOR II was rushed and perhaps wasn't their fault, but now they're out of excuses.

[menage]

Eurogamer - 9

(http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2010-10-19-fallout-new-vegas-review)

[Savok]

General rule of thumb is unfinished (missing content and so on as with KOTOR2) is rushed, broken is just the dev's fault (unless they're dealing with someone like Activision).

[OrangePulp]

So far I'm enjoying the game a lot more than fallout 3. I think the system is better designed in this one; skills feel like they have a bit broader application, perks are better tuned with a reduced perk rate, crafting is much more interesting, etc. Quests also seem more interesting, although I'm not that far in, so it's hard to say on that respect. No bugs to speak of, but I'm only 4 or whatever hours in. The advantage of the PC version, of course, is the inevitable unofficial patch that will fix a lot of bugs that official patches don't get to.

All in all, initial impression is great.

[Narradisall]

Urge to buy, rising....

I know if I get this I'll get no work done. I'll spend all the time digging through suitcases strewn across the land looking for a stimp pack..

[Lance Uppercut]

The mailman can't get here any faster. Come on, release day shipping!

[jpublic]

Did...Steam actually activate a game at the beginning of the day?

I am not in fact hallucinating?

I don't know what to think anymore! Up is down, down is up, what insanity has my world become?!

[Karak]

Ok dropped this from my list. Too many bug reports in too many reviews. I just can't handle that. Hell even when games supposedly work they sometimes have issues. This one seems ripe for 3-4 patches before I even think about it.

[J Arcane]

The mailman can't get here any faster. Come on, release day shipping!
I'm in the same boat. Apparently I should have bought on Steam.

Karak: Fallout 3 was supposedly unplayably buggy on release, yet I poured hours into it on an underpowered shitbox anyway and didn't have problems.

I'd wait until real people play it.

[Purple Santa]

Did...Steam actually activate a game at the beginning of the day?

I am not in fact hallucinating?

I don't know what to think anymore! Up is down, down is up, what insanity has my world become?!
I was asking Spigot in the WeekDay thread earlier this a.m. was it running already and he was playing it for a few hours. I didn't think it would be released that early in the a.m.
Ok dropped this from my list. Too many bug reports in too many reviews. I just can't handle that. Hell even when games supposedly work they sometimes have issues. This one seems ripe for 3-4 patches before I even think about it.
Chicken. :p

[Vigil80]

It may also depend on the version the reviewer was playing. I actually trust my PC/Steam copy to be more stable than the console releases at this point.

But, let's find out for sure...

[J Arcane]

Hah hah. So much for the hand-wringing over "Hardcore mode":
The new “Hardcore” mode on offer that means your character has to eat, drink and sleep is a touch nonsensical. After 48 in-game hours where I did nothing but walk and fight, I checked my FOD, SLP and H20 meters in the nick of time, because they all showed that I only had about 50 points out of 1000 left. I drank some water, ate some fruit, and checked the meters again. They now read 0. As in, after 48 hours they hadn’t ticked from 1000 to 50. They’d ticked from 0 to 50. I could go without drinking or sleeping for weeks. Also, in Hardcore mode food still heals damage you’ve taken, it just takes a few seconds instead of being instantaneous. So you still have the ability to get shot, bring up the Pip Boy, devour 40 packets of instant mash, exit the Pip Boy and keep fighting.

[Drayven]

Well that's all assuming that it has to hit 1000 before you start noticing the effects.

[Savok]

First thing to do is install a mod that speeds it up then...

EDIT: True, Radiation works like that afterall.

Still, painfully slow.

[SilentScreams]

I have one question. Do low calibre guns still have the capability to completely blow limbs and heads off people?
I don't know why, but it always bothered me in Fallout 3 that my hunting rifle could blast somebody's head clean off.

[Karak]

I'm in the same boat. Apparently I should have bought on Steam.

Karak: Fallout 3 was supposedly unplayably buggy on release, yet I poured hours into it on an underpowered shitbox anyway and didn't have problems.

I'd wait until real people play it.

Before Medal of Honor I might have made the jump. But never again, and not when every single reviewer says the same stuff. Too many good games exist with far fewer bugs to waste my time. I do want to play it. I do not want to fight it. I will play it, but I will play it patched.
I have lost the desire to battle a game just to get it to work:)

[Exodus]

Before Medal of Honor I might have made the jump. But never again, and not when every single reviewer says the same stuff. Too many good games exist with far fewer bugs to waste my time. I do want to play it. I do not want to fight it. I will play it, but I will play it patched.
I have lost the desire to battle a game just to get it to work:)

BAWWWWWWWWWWWK
BAWK BAWK BAWK BAWK
BAGAAAAAAAAAAWK

That was a chicken.

[Karak]

BAWWWWWWWWWWWK
BAWK BAWK BAWK BAWK
BAGAAAAAAAAAAWK

That was a chicken.

Yep. And with my saved 60 bucks I can buy a fucking great deal of KFC. Thanks for the reminder!

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_GG2nXPEgt2s/Sk6suByZ8aI/AAAAAAAAFTw/st8O3r4Q92Q/s400/chx+danish+potsal+128.JPG

So now I can play games that work and eat chicken. Best of both worlds.

[Savok]

Fuck you I'm hungry now.

[Vigil80]

Before folks go thinking it's all bad, there are things about the engine that have been improved. One thing I believe I've noticed after a couple hours is that the appearance of characters - the player character especially - to be "skating" has been reduced from Fallout 3. I never did anything in 3rd person in FO3 for just that reason, but I feel like I can enjoy looking at my character's backside now.

[Exodus]

My friend described his early impressions of FO3:NV as, more like fallout 2 and a short tutorial that you can skip.

I'm really looking forward to 4hrs or so from now, was too busy playing the first level of Vanquish. Game seems alright. might just pick it up just to show support.

[carnage11]

*sigh*

I don't have the money for this damn game. FUcK! I guess I'll be trudging through the rest of Dragon Age and replaying Fallout 3 for a while. :(

[Karak]

Fuck you I'm hungry now.
Save yourself 60 bucks. That's a whole heap of chicken.

[Superman's Dead]

There was a big MMA game release thing where we picked it up, with some MMA stars posing for pictures with kids and a big ring they set up with 360s on a stage.

They didn't understand that it was Fallout Day. THE FOOLS

[Savok]

Save yourself 60 bucks. That's a whole heap of chicken.
Lesbians trump chicken.

[Karak]

There was a big MMA game release thing where we picked it up, with some MMA stars posing for pictures with kids and a big ring they set up with 360s on a stage.

They didn't understand that it was Fallout Day. THE FOOLS

Man that would have rocked. I would have loved to have got a couple pics with some of them.

[Hawkzombie]

Yep. And with my saved 60 bucks I can buy a fucking great deal of KFC. Thanks for the reminder!

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_GG2nXPEgt2s/Sk6suByZ8aI/AAAAAAAAFTw/st8O3r4Q92Q/s400/chx+danish+potsal+128.JPG

So now I can play games that work and eat chicken. Best of both worlds.

Fucking hell, now I'm hungry.

[Karak]

Lesbians trump chicken.

I do not think this word means what you think it means.
Unless your just watching.

[Savok]

I do not think this word means what you think it means.
Unless your just watching.
Watching, longing, dreaming....

[Karak]

Watching, longing, dreaming....

Carry on;) Carry on.
Actually I am indeed going at KFC at lunch to get a bucket of chicken. And I have to say...I am more excited for that than any of the game releases this week bahahahaha.

Also lesbians and KFC both share one glorious trait. They are finger licking good.

[Superman's Dead]

Man that would have rocked. I would have loved to have got a couple pics with some of them.

It was just interesting to see a bunch of bald buff guys with tattoos in Gamestop...though it did provide some great comedy.

Me: "Know who finishes fights? THIS GUY." *points at full-size statue of Master Chief*

[Karak]

It was just interesting to see a bunch of bald buff guys with tattoos in Gamestop...though it did provide some great comedy.

Me: "Know who finishes fights? THIS GUY." *points at full-size statue of Master Chief*

...uhm...Master Chief...isn't real...

[Superman's Dead]

...uhm...Master Chief...isn't real...

Neither is Randy Couture. He was there. Full-on animatronic. No joke.

[Karak]

Neither is Randy Couture. He was there. Full-on animatronic. No joke.

He is. Trust me. I have seen those ears up close.

[Vigil80]

Hah hah. So much for the hand-wringing over "Hardcore mode":
This has either been patched, or the guy is just full of crap. My first in-game night has just begun, and I'm already suffering from "minor dehydration sickness."

[KillerMcDead]

So how's the PC version running so far? I picked it up at lunch and my desire to play it is only matched by my fear that I will be struggling to get it running all night.

[SilentScreams]

So was that a yay or nay on the bullet based decapitation?

[Drayven]

I'm actually kind of glad to hear from the Joystiq review that some quests are cut off based on your actions. If there's enough quest lines I can't get to on my first playthrough it makes the 2nd one that much more interesting.

[Vigil80]

So how's the PC version running so far? I picked it up at lunch and my desire to play it is only matched by my fear that I will be struggling to get it running all night.
I've only been playing about 3 or 4 hours now, but I've encountered no bugs or crashes. Game's been running like it should.

So was that a yay or nay on the bullet based decapitation?
I have seen a head blown apart, but not just clean off.

[Acidpoptart]

Id like to see what you guys experience when it comes to bugs and technical issues on the PC version. Vigil's comments are a good sign, but I really dont trust Obsidian...

[Drayven]

I haven't played the game yet but the comic book and playing cards that came with the collector's edition are pretty spiffy.

[J Arcane]

So far all I've seen is a couple slight bugs, one of which I've already forgotten, and the other of which was a pathfinding issue with an NPC.

Doing the hardcore thing. Doesn't seem to be that much harder, and I think it'll add a fun bit to the game.

With the crafting, seems like all the skills are much more important now, which makes FO3's low starting skills that much more annoying than they already were, and makes 3 picks seem even more limiting.

And then you combine that with the fact that books are a temporary buff now (WTF?) . . .

I see that getting modded real quick.

[Wackman3000]

Before Medal of Honor I might have made the jump. But never again, and not when every single reviewer says the same stuff. Too many good games exist with far fewer bugs to waste my time. I do want to play it. I do not want to fight it. I will play it, but I will play it patched.
I have lost the desire to battle a game just to get it to work:)

You keep saying bugs bugs bugs, but what exactly have you heard that would make this game so unplayable to you?

Besides a few NPC pathing issues (that have plagued Bethesda games since Oblivion) and some weirdness happening with my items that I stored or would pickup, I haven't really heard about any major game breaking bugs?

Care to elaborate instead of just bitching? Or perhaps I just missed the part of the thread where you said what exactly bothers you so much that you'd skip out on one of the biggest games of the fall.

[Vigil80]

Nah, books are still in. What you've encountered are skill magazines. Magazines give you a temporary buff, books are a permanent increase.

[J Arcane]

Nah, books are still in. What you've encountered are skill magazines. Magazines give you a temporary buff, books are a permanent increase.
OK, I guess that works. I'm assuming books are rarer this go?

I could really use a boost to my skills, it looks like I'm gonna need it.

I like the combat though. It still gets clunky and awkward at close ranges without VATS, but they get the iron sights soo, soo right. That subtle shake and everything, makes you feel like you have to take your time with each shot. At distance, it feels great. I love hunting stuff with that varmint rifle.

[Sly Marbo]

And then you combine that with the fact that books are a temporary buff now (WTF?) . . .



Bah! I didn't know that. I'm wishing I had tagged the Repair skill now.

[JayK47]

I should be getting this in the mail later this week. In the meantime, I hope you guys are not experiencing as many bugs as the reviewers are. Did the 360 version not crash for Fallout 3? I tend to save a lot on the PC in general, but especially for Bethesda games. It sucks, but I expect to get crashes to desktop with New Vegas. Some other bug reports are what could piss me off, like NPCs disappearing and reappearing. And Karak, I don't know if patches will fix every little bug. I swear that with every patch on Fallout 3, I was actually getting more crashing. You either get the game now and live with it, or wait for the GOTY edition, where the bugs now come with "free" DLC;).

[frederec]

I've played the PS3 version for a few hours today, and I haven't run into any bugs. A gecko got stuck in a mountain, and there are occasional stutters, but the stuttering could be my PS3, for all I know.

[MagGnome]

And then you combine that with the fact that books are a temporary buff now (WTF?) . . .

I know this has already been address, but I have a related question: How common are books in the Fallout games? I'm only about twelve hours into Fallout 3, and I've only seen around four or five books at the most. I take it there are a lot more of them out there? I've seen a lot of burned books, but only a few that were actually readable.


Also lesbians and KFC both share one glorious trait. They are finger licking good.

KFC:
http://thestockmasters.com/files/u3/fat_Joe_KFC.jpg


Lesbians:
http://rantventrant.files.wordpress.com/2008/05/ugly-lesbians.jpg

Yep, they definitely have a lot in common. ;)

[MagGnome]

I should be getting this in the mail later this week. In the meantime, I hope you guys are not experiencing as many bugs as the reviewers are. Did the 360 version not crash for Fallout 3? I tend to save a lot on the PC in general, but especially for Bethesda games. It sucks, but I expect to get crashes to desktop with New Vegas. Some other bug reports are what could piss me off, like NPCs disappearing and reappearing. And Karak, I don't know if patches will fix every little bug. I swear that with every patch on Fallout 3, I was actually getting more crashing. You either get the game now and live with it, or wait for the GOTY edition, where the bugs now come with "free" DLC;).

I've had several people on this site tell me that they had "no problems" with Fallout 3. I find that hard to believe, but I suppose it's possible. I personally experienced several desktop crashes earlier this year while playing the game, although I found some work-arounds online that solved the problem. Bethesda has admitted that the game (FO3) has issues with Windows 7 64bit and some multicore processors (3+), so it's entirely possible that these issues weren't addressed for New Vegas, and thus more people are experiencing problems as Win7 64 and multicore processors (3+) are more common. Hopefully that is not the case, but it could explain the reviews that complain of bugs, especially crashes.

[Troggles]

I've had several people on this site tell me that they had "no problems" with Fallout 3. I find that hard to believe, but I suppose it's possible. I personally experienced several desktop crashes earlier this year while playing the game, although I found some work-arounds online that solved the problem. Bethesda has admitted that the game (FO3) has issues with Windows 7 64bit and some multicore processors (3+), so it's entirely possible that these issues weren't addressed for New Vegas, and thus more people are experiencing problems as Win7 64 and multicore processors (3+) are more common. Hopefully that is not the case, but it could explain the reviews that complain of bugs, especially crashes.

This issue alone has kept me from finishing FO3 or getting truly excited for NV.

[Karak]

I should be getting this in the mail later this week. In the meantime, I hope you guys are not experiencing as many bugs as the reviewers are. Did the 360 version not crash for Fallout 3? I tend to save a lot on the PC in general, but especially for Bethesda games. It sucks, but I expect to get crashes to desktop with New Vegas. Some other bug reports are what could piss me off, like NPCs disappearing and reappearing. And Karak, I don't know if patches will fix every little bug. I swear that with every patch on Fallout 3, I was actually getting more crashing. You either get the game now and live with it, or wait for the GOTY edition, where the bugs now come with "free" DLC;).

No probs and agreed on some of the bugs being introduced by patches.

I am going to stay out of this thread for awhile. It seems like people are taking it personal that someone may want to wait a bit and are incapable of using google on their own to find the reports of problems.
Its like saying a mentality retarded kid may have possible learning disabilities:) People here adopt their fucking games man.
I guess worrying about bugs is the same as bitching these days. Someday I will get it. But for now, I am putting this on hold for sure.

[Vandabo]

The only major issues I had with FO3 was with GFWL. I mean, there were a couple crashes, but nothing gamebreaking. As long as a game doesn't delete my saves or put up an unpassable barrier (this happened to me almost everytime I tried playing FO:Tactics), I'm usually not that bothered by it. I've been playing PC games for 20 years now, so I'm used to bugs. It's too bad they still happen so frequently though.

[Daytime_Lantern]

Ugh! Advertising works so damn well. I'm holding out for GOTY and everywhere I go there are full page NV ads. Just need to hold out.....