Comic Jumper

[Iron Past]

There's CoG's review here (http://www.colonyofgamers.com/cogforums/showthread.php?p=672152#post672152), but I thought I'd give its own thread, because it deserves it. But first a quick repost from the review thread.

Okay, picked it up, very happy. I can see the complaints some other reviewers leveled at the gameplay, since it's pretty simple, but it's far, far from actually being bad or mediocre. Gameplaywise, it's just nothing super special. However, what is there is done well. If you're one of those people who needs every game to be fresh and new and innovative in every facet (like so many reviewers are nowadays), then you'll probably get bored. I'd say the exact same thing about The Maw, to be honest.

But my god, this is legitimately funny. I've been laughing full belly laughs all damn morning. The writing and voice acting is so spot on it's amazing. So yes, when you occasionally have to grind through a part that's getting stale, just let the banter between Star and Smiley pull you through. I had a frustrating part in the first Nanoc comic that was driving me nuts, but at that point shooting everything was almost secondary to hearing Star talk about taking a barbarian chic on a date. Oh, and the humor is actually for adults! Not like super dirty and profanity laden, but smart and written by grown-ups.

Side note: Sometimes Jeff Gerstmann really sounds like an old man tired of playing video games. That dude probably needs a vacation.

Edit: Oh, and there's an absolutely hilarious joke the first time you encounter the The Maw arcade machine. A little self referential humor.

One thing I didn't mention was that while the script is pretty much the same every time you play through, I noticed that there was some randomization, specifically in the sections you might have to replay a few times. It's nice when a dev is aware of their product enough to do something like that.

[Kelegacy]

I'll probably wind up picking it up this week. Loved Splosion Man.

I don't laugh much at games, so I probably won't laugh like some people do, but we'll see.

[EternalGamer]

I agree with your comment about Gerstmann. It seems like any sort of challenge in a games is too much "work" for him.

[Kelegacy]

I agree with your comment about Gerstmann. It seems like any sort of challenge in a games is too much "work" for him.

I like a challenge. Otherwise I wind up blowing through games like Uncharted 2 on Hard. That game was WAY too easy.

I don't like overly hard or frustrating games, but give me a sense of accomplishment and a fair challenge.

I think gamers today are sissies. If I run through a game on easy mode I probably won't have any memories of it whatsoever. If I don't die, I want to feel like I COULD easily die if I'm not careful.

[Savok]

Jesus it's 2Gb.

[Iron Past]

I think gamers today are sissies. If I run through a game on easy mode I probably won't have any memories of it whatsoever. If I don't die, I want to feel like I COULD easily die if I'm not careful.

In the part I played, it does get difficult, but it builds up to those sections. You don't get any life back that you lose, but it checkpoints frequently and you start at full health when you respawn (after a lovely death animation). There's certainly some tension when getting low on health.

Jesus it's 2Gb.

There's a good bit of FMV-style humor. :)

[DoctorFinger]

1-2GB is becoming the standard for DLGs now. This and Lara Croft were both right around 2GBs.

[Savok]

This game is cruel to me.

On one hand, it had QTEs and real life FMVs, cardinal sins in gaming. Also fuck pipes, you can barely see them against some backgrounds and for some reason I keep falling off them, not to mention jumping seems around them sends you in a random direction too.

But... it has Brad, and the stat screen song, and the gameplay outside the pipes is good old fashion gaming and I love it all.

[Abyssion]

I got a weird glitch in the first level, I ended up running down a slanted building... then fell...and kept falling. I guess I'm restarting this level. :confused:

[Iron Past]

I got a weird glitch in the first level, I ended up running down a slanted building... then fell...and kept falling. I guess I'm restarting this level. :confused:

Yeah. You're supposed to bot-surf down that. Guess the scene didn't trigger?

[Abyssion]

Yeah, it didn't trigger. It did the second time around though!

[EternalGamer]

I thought Giant Bomb was probably being too hard on the game when I heard them talking about it. I absolutely love 2D platformers and shooters and Splosion Man was one of my favorite games in the last year, so the idea of "classic" gameplay, even if nothing new, appealed to me.

Then I played the game.

I hate to say this, but if the demo is any indication, this game outright blows. The combat is slow and plodding. In a Contra style shooter, the regular enemies shouldn't take so many hits to kill. It just kills the forward momentum and the game is very boring as a result. They also commit the unpardonable error of making the objects you climb on/jump to blend in with the background so it is sometimes hard to see where you are even supposed to go. Whereas Splosion Man was fast paced with very tight controls, this game is the exact opposite.

I also didn't find the humor very funny in the demo. I like the stuff with Brad but most of the other jokes felt pretty lame and forced. Like they needed a reference every 20-30 seconds. Maybe the humor gets better, but I won't be finding out because the gameplay flat out sucks. I had to force myself to finish the demo and I only kept playing because I really, really wanted it to get better, but, unfortunately, it never did. No sale.

[Iron Past]

Then it's not for you, and that's fine. I disagree with the sentiment of "It doesn't appeal to me specifically and therefore is bad game" however. You may not like what they've done, but nothing they've done is bad.

As an aside, I also have no idea where 'loose controls' are, either, as this isn't the type of game that demands twitch and the controls seem perfectly fine for what you're doing. I was actually shocked when I heard that on the Bombcast, but whatever.

[EternalGamer]

Then it's not for you, and that's fine. I disagree with the sentiment of "It doesn't appeal to me specifically and therefore is bad game" however. You may not like what they've done, but nothing they've done is bad.

As an aside, I also have no idea where 'loose controls' are, either, as this isn't the type of game that demands twitch and the controls seem perfectly fine for what you're doing. I was actually shocked when I heard that on the Bombcast, but whatever.

I don't know, man. Do you actually find the basic gameplay fun? I really have a hard time seeing how anyone could think it really was. I can see someone enduring it in the exact way the Giant Bomb guys talk about if the humor appeals to you, but the pacing and the repetition just seems awful and that was only having to put up with it for one level.

The reason why classic action platformers work is because the enemies die quickly and the momentum keeps moving. It doesn't work when you have to shoot each and every little peon for 5 seconds before moving on to the next.

[Abyssion]

I like the idea of the game and everything, but I don't like the controls. I found it weird how inside the bank it was a side scrolling beat-em, in which I had a very limited moveset. It was kind of strange looking at the controls being told I can jump with A then hitting the A button in the bank just to attack both of my sides.

I don't mind the shooting stuff though, in fact I really like it. But they should have had two buttons for attacks, like I can hit X to do a melee attack when a Bradbot is up close. Then I can hit RT and use the right stick to aim my guns and shoot, it's kind of weird having it automatic like it is. Of course, my playtime is very limited, I beat the first level then tried the challenge rooms a bunch of times. (The second challenge never stated I was only allowed to get hit once :( )

[Iron Past]

I don't know, man. Do you actually find the basic gameplay fun? I really have a hard time seeing how anyone could think it really was. I can see someone enduring it in the exact way the Giant Bomb guys talk about if the humor appeals to you, but the pacing and the repetition just seems awful and that was only having to put up with it for one level.

The reason why classic action platformers work is because the enemies die quickly and the momentum keeps moving. It doesn't work when you have to shoot each and every little peon for 5 seconds before moving on to the next.

I enjoy it enough. The humor is absolutely the reason to play, at least for me. Like Abyssion, I like the shooting, and it hasn't gotten on my nerves yet; utilizing the slide move is a necessity to not get frustrated though. The biggest flaw for me is that the horde screens go on just a bit too long, and I'm not a huge fan of the lightgun-esque sections for the same reason, but they do break up the gameplay.

I understand not liking what's there, but I think that what is there is good, gameplay-wise. And I completely agree with the pipe thing--a simple sheen texture would alleviate that, so I don't know how it slipped past. But yeah, the gameplay's not so great that I wouldn't recommend the game without the caveat of you're mostly along for the writing.

[Iron Past]

Also, just ran into this bit of bonus content:

http://i52.tinypic.com/k9jasw.jpg

Dan Greiner (http://www.colonyofgamers.com/cogforums/member.php?u=37), who bid on the Twisted Pixel stuff for Child's Play. Awesome, and congrats!

[Psykoboy2]

Man...that is awesome.

[Kelegacy]

I tried out the demo and have decided to wait. Didn't really enjoy it at all. I also hated the fighting with the chicks. Annoyed me to the point where I just started trying to run by them all.

I may pick it up someday if it goes on sale, but I just wasn't feeling it from the demo. The gameplay felt trite.

[Purple Santa]

I loved 'Splosion man and the difficulty in the game. Challenging that was made fun. The more I read about this game, I am doubting it is for me. I need to try the demo but not even rushing to do that right now.

[Deadend]

I want to like it, but the act of playing the game was so boring. The controls felt sluggish and it just took too damn much shooting to kill guys. I also was annoyed that there was no way to recover health, other than dying and respawning.

The gameplay is really simple, like in Splosion Man, but in Splosion Man.. it was FAST and fun. If Comic Jumper had just a bit more in the way of options other than shoot pistols, it would be better, or if it was faster paced.
Everything else seemed great aside from the core game. I am disappointed.

[EternalGamer]

I want to like it, but the act of playing the game was so boring. The controls felt sluggish and it just took too damn much shooting to kill guys. I also was annoyed that there was no way to recover health, other than dying and respawning.

The gameplay is really simple, like in Splosion Man, but in Splosion Man.. it was FAST and fun. If Comic Jumper had just a bit more in the way of options other than shoot pistols, it would be better, or if it was faster paced.
Everything else seemed great aside from the core game. I am disappointed.

I tried it again last night to see if there were an option for a lower difficulty, not because I need one, but just because it might speed up the gameplay. There wasn't. It they simply balanced it better where the basic enemies died in one bullet shot like every other classic shooter ever the game would be far better. The could counter this by making your character die in three bullet hits.

Whoever was responsible for the gameplay balance fucked up. Everone else did a great job.

[Akela]

Stairs are closed. Please use the invisible Rope.

[DoctorFinger]

If the enemies died with just one bullet it would be the easiest game ever. But I do agree that the game could use a few different difficulty levels.

[EternalGamer]

If the enemies died with just one bullet it would be the easiest game ever. But I do agree that the game could use a few different difficulty levels.

Not if YOU also died in one bullet. This is the formula followed by every action platformer since Contra 1 for a reason.

I decided to send an email to the devs. Below is what I sent. I really encourage every one to do likewise. Feel free to plagiarize anything I wrote if you are feeling lazy.

To Whomever It May Concern,

I am a huge fan of your games. Splosion Man was one of my favorite games for any platform. I sold it to about half dozen of my friends I proselytized for it so much. All of us were really looking forward to your next release. But many of us have a serious problem with Comic Jumper. Unfortunately, the basic shooting gameplay is simply not very fun and this seems to be pretty widely recognized among critics and gamers.

The good news is that it seems there would be a very, very easy fix to this problem. If it were simply balanced it better where the basic enemies died in one bullet shot like every other classic shooter ever since Contra 1, the game would be far better. This could be counterbalanced by making your character die in two or three bullet hits. Everything else about the game is great, except the plodding, slow pace of killing the peon enemies, which really drags the games' momentum down.

So, here is my very, very simple proposal. Add a new difficulty option in an XBLA update. You can simply make the basic enemies die in one hit and keep the players health the same and call it "Way of The Coward Nacho Supremo Edition" or make it to where both they and the player die in one bullet and call it "Classic Hardcore" mode. Or some other difficulty variation. Just please, please, give me a way to play this game with basic enemies that die in one hit. There is a very good reason why every 2D action game before this one followed this formula.

I have never written a company in this way in my life. But this is a case that breaks my heart because everything else is so good and it could so easily be remedied; everything else about your game is superb. Please don't let something as simple as a damage value ruin it for many of your fans.

Sincerely,

Dan Childers

[Iron Past]

At the very least, you can set it to auto-aim, so you can just mash LT and hop around. Would make it easier and enemies would die faster since you'd have 100% accuracy. I wonder if a Contra-mode opens up after you beat it like 'Splosion Man? Probably would have heard something to that effect by now. Speaking of which, one of the bonuses is two new 'Splosion Man levels, one each for single player and multiplayer.

[EternalGamer]

I tried using the auto aim and it does help a little, but the basic slow pace remains.

[Mike Kelehan]

I decided to send an email to the devs. Below is what I sent. I really encourage every one to do likewise. Feel free to plagiarize anything I wrote if you are feeling lazy.

Twisted Pixel has always written back to me, so your email may do some good. I'm always a fan of more difficulty levels.

[Savok]

More I play the more bad it is... well that's slightly unfair, it's not awful just sloppy. The needs to have been made 20 years ago, it'd be a classic then.

Time to grind cash for damage upgrades...

[Mike Kelehan]

The needs to have been made 20 years ago, it'd be a classic then.

That's a plus in my mind.

[Savok]

Yeah but it comes with the crappy controls and floating gameplay. Play Earthworm Jim today and you want to remove your own tongue at times.

[Mike Kelehan]

Yeah but it comes with the crappy controls and floating gameplay. Play Earthworm Jim today and you want to remove your own tongue at times.

Was Earthworm Jim a classic, though? I hated it then and hate it now. It's a game that people were blinded by how pretty it was, and fooled themselves into thinking it was fun because of it. I call it the Altered Beast Effect.

[Savok]

Jim's a classic. And for the time, it was pretty great, good humour wasn't exactly common in console games.

New peeve, having to individually unlock every damn bonus by hand.

[Savok]

The more bonuses I unlock, the more I think they spent more time on the fluff then the game itself.

I can't decide on whether that was the right decision or not.

[Savok]

Ok I give up, the game's a vanity project (the author self insertions are becoming obnoxiously frequent) no one with an ounce of objectivity bothered to playtest this. The gameplay actually gets worse as it goes on, even fully upgraded enemies are taking tank loads of damage now, more then Bradbots ever took with no upgrades. And the platforming...

Do not buy this game, it isn't worth it, go play Contra or something else less annoying.

[Abyssion]

Even with full upgrades the Bradbots still take a lot of damage before dropping, I would know, I played that first challenge room more than the actual game itself. I didn't see any real difference between no levels into guns and 5 levels into it.

(Okay, maybe a small difference, but I had a souped up Captain before going into Nanoc and I still died a number of times and things took a bit to kill, especially during the on-rails section.)

[Talanvor]

I want to like it, but the act of playing the game was so boring. The controls felt sluggish and it just took too damn much shooting to kill guys. I also was annoyed that there was no way to recover health, other than dying and respawning.

Actually there is one way, use a Help Me. That refills your health. It blows your bonus, but eh.

I don't think the controls are sluggish, I would like more options for combat though. Just adding in a grenade or a secondary gun would have given more variety. They sort of have a combo system in the melee section when earning the Help Mes, but they could have expanded on that there too.

Overall I think it's a fun game. Seeing Jackel wearing the CoG shirt in the game made my day though. Also I'm pretty sure I saw the In-Game Chat crew in the thank you section of the credits.

Fuck that last manga boss though. I felt like I was playing a bullet hell shump on the final stage.

I almost forgot, it seems one of the achievements is glitched. The drill boss in the Silver Age section, which is a reference to Total Recall, gives an achievement if you kill him without taking damage. It's not working properly so most people can't get it.

[Savok]

Even with full upgrades the Bradbots still take a lot of damage before dropping, I would know, I played that first challenge room more than the actual game itself. I didn't see any real difference between no levels into guns and 5 levels into it.

(Okay, maybe a small difference, but I had a souped up Captain before going into Nanoc and I still died a number of times and things took a bit to kill, especially during the on-rails section.)
Oh trust me, it helps in Nanoc. Why I grinded up all the cash, making that part bearable, then along comes the Silver Age...

[Abyssion]

Oh trust me, it helps in Nanoc. Why I grinded up all the cash, making that part bearable, then along comes the Silver Age...

Oh boy, sounds like I'm gonna have fun later today then. :p

[Savok]

Not to mention super happy pipe fun!

This is becoming strangely common, (kinda sorta) indie devs losing all perspective. Saw it recently at Stardock too with Elemental.

Another alarming trend is the jarring insertion of real life like we saw in 90s FMVs. They did it at the very start of Brutal Legend too, though that was forgiveable because one, it lead to the best main menu set up this century, and two it had nothing to do with the plot, hell you'd skip over it without even knowing sometimes.

[Iron Past]

Twisted Pixel hasn't 'lost all perspective' as much as gained an understanding of what makes their games popular, i.e. the writing, art and characters. It's not going to change, either, so I'd suggest you just ignore TP games from now on.

If you just can't stand the sameness in the combat, there are a ton of other games for you to play, and like I said, this you aren't playing this one for the deep gameplay. Is it a shame? Yes. I'd have loved it if they would have spent more time making their combat system, but considering it's a rather small indie developer, they chose to focus time and money elsewhere.

As I've said before, I don't feel the gameplay is bad at all, but there's simply not much there. I find it interesting that that games can be given a large pass when they have good gameplay and shitty everything else, but when it has passable gameplay and outstanding everything else it gets nailed to the wall. Personally, I hope this nets them enough money that they can spend some more time on their next title.

Edit: For the record, this game falls more in line with The Maw for me. There was almost no gameplay in that, but it was so charming it won people over.

[Talanvor]

When I first heard the Stats song I grinned like an idiot.

[Savok]

Read what I said earlier, I have no problem with old "pure" gameplay, I was in fact defending it. Besides there is no sameness, the game changes perspective frequently giving you entirely different experiences, they just all happen to be unresponsive and annoying. The graphics (and camera in places) are a clusterfuck, the game is completely incapable of communicating what's background, what's enemies/enemy fire and what's somewhere you have to go.

My problem here is the gameplay isn't passable, I'd be happy with passable (and have been on many occasions before), I bought it on the basis of it being passable early on but it just gets shittier and more annoying.

Every time I go to play it, the star rating on it has dropped even more, there's a very good reason for that.

[Iron Past]

...they just all happen to be unresponsive and annoying. The graphics (and camera in places) are a clusterfuck, the game is completely incapable of communicating what's background, what's enemies/enemy fire and what's somewhere you have to go.

Then we will agree to disagree, since I couldn't disagree more. Except with some of the differences between background and game elements, which doesn't seem to affect me as bad as you, but still could have been better.

[Psykoboy2]

I have never laughed so hard while watching someone else play this game.

[TheFlyingOrc]

This is a pretty good game. Twisted Pixel's main problem is that they make these suckers in a year, so they don't have a lot of time for great enemy/obstacle or your-character-moves variety. And I think we can all agree that section 1 of the Silver Age is way too long.

But in general, this game is pretty good. I wish TP would take the same game, work on it for two years instead of one, and release it as a disc title for $40-$50 dollars.

Manga section's humor makes up for any shortcomings the rest of the game may have.

[jpublic]

I said it elsewhere, but screw you very much Twisted Pixel for your UI in the Bonus unlock screens. Having to go through all 200+ elements of that crap individually was mind-numbingly tedious, and you should have known better.

[Savok]

They couldn't have because nobody actually bothered playing the game as a game.

[TheFlyingOrc]

They couldn't have because nobody actually bothered playing the game as a game.

That's odd, I must have been confused when I enjoyed the gameplay in general, though it was too repetitive.

[EternalGamer]

That's odd, I must have been confused when I enjoyed the gameplay in general, though it was too repetitive.

You obviously were not "confused" but you do seem to have pretty low standards of what is acceptable gameplay. I imagine that you would probably enjoy just about any action platformer if you like this one because, in terms of design, it is certainly worse than most classic examples of the genre. It doesn't even deserve to be mentioned in the same breath as something like Turican or Rush'n Attack, let alone Contra, Bionic Commando, Gunstar Heroes, or Megaman. Actually, it makes mediocre ones like Bayou Billy (which shares its beat em up/shooter hybridization) look decent by comparison.

The thing about Splosion Man is that the tight controls, the pacing, and the level design was easily on par with classic platformers. I would say that it does a better job at being "Sonic" than most Sonic games.

[TheFlyingOrc]

You obviously were not "confused" but you do seem to have pretty low standards of what is acceptable gameplay. I imagine that you would probably enjoy just about any action platformer if you like this one because in terms of design, it is certainly worse than most classic examples of the genre.

Hahaha u mad?

I saw your ridiculous rant about how if you aren't insta-killing enemies, the game is bad, and how it has to have an incredibly fast pace to be enjoyable. Once I got used to how the game is played, it was fun. Again, almost all of the complaints to be made about comic jumper can be traced back to the fact that they're on a yearly release schedule for games with full 3D graphics. I didn't think the gameplay was super awesome best thing ever, but the humor made up for it. In spades.

[EternalGamer]

Hahaha u mad?

I saw your ridiculous rant about how if you aren't insta-killing enemies, the game is bad, and how it has to have an incredibly fast pace to be enjoyable. Once I got used to how the game is played, it was fun. Again, almost all of the complaints to be made about comic jumper can be traced back to the fact that they're on a yearly release schedule for games with full 3D graphics. I didn't think the gameplay was super awesome best thing ever, but the humor made up for it. In spades.

It is a pretty basic gameplay design of action games that you need "cannon fodder" enemies. Every game has these from Contra to Megaman to Doom to Halo. Enemies that go down in basically one hit and keep the pacing moving. Not every enemies has to have this characteristic, but if ALL of your enemies are a pain in the ass to kill and you constantly are throwing dozens of them at the player, it quickly becomes tedious. Again, this seems like a very basic design concept that almost every other designer gets. Even Splosion Man followed the formula.

The yearly release schedule isn't any sort of excuse. There are huge big budget titles that come out on a yearly schedule and maintain levels of quality. And their last game, Splosion Man, was a yearly schedule yet the gameplay wasn't crappy. The time frame of the game's production cycle has nothing to do with whether or not it is a well designed game.

[TheFlyingOrc]

It is a pretty basic gameplay design of action games that you need "cannon fodder" enemies. Every game has these from Contra to Megaman to Doom to Halo. Enemies that go down in basically one hit and keep the pacing moving. Not every enemies has to have this characteristic, but if ALL of your enemies are a pain in the ass to kill and you constantly are throwing dozens of them at the player, it quickly becomes tedious. Again, this seems like a very basic design concept that almost every other designer gets. Even Splosion Man followed the formula.

Almost everything I shot the whole game dies in a VERY small sustained burst of gunfire - like 1-2 seconds. Perhaps you didn't upgrade your gun very much? I literally did not experience this "everything is a pain to kill" that you are talking about.


The yearly release schedule isn't any sort of excuse. There are huge big budget titles that come out on a yearly schedule and maintain levels of quality. And their last game, Splosion Man, was a yearly schedule yet the gameplay wasn't crappy. The time frame of the game's production cycle has nothing to do with whether or not it is a well designed game.
Except that I disagree with your highly subjective opinion that there was a problem with a core mechanic. Potentially the game has some small errors related to teaching the player to play it properly, but I wasn't confused in the slightest, and I found it highly enjoyable.

edit: I'm having trouble thinking of an enemy that WAS NOT a boss or one of the Tigers from the Nanoc section that I wouldn't consider to be cannon fodder. Almost all enemies can be killed before they have the opportunity to fire a single shot.

[Kelegacy]

Almost everything I shot the whole game dies in a VERY small sustained burst of gunfire - like 1-2 seconds. Perhaps you didn't upgrade your gun very much? I literally did not experience this "everything is a pain to kill" that you are talking about.


Maybe it does get better later on, but judging by the demo enemies do seem to soak up the bullets more than they should. I was reading a review in OXM recently and they said the same.

[TheFlyingOrc]

Maybe it does get better later on, but judging by the demo enemies do seem to soak up the bullets more than they should. I was reading a review in OXM recently and they said the same.

Huh. Maybe it's just that I immediately went for the maximum firepower. Even in the last level, things were mostly "focus on them for a second or two".

I will critique a single control decision: there's no need for me to constantly hold R during the 2D sections. Just make him fire bullets wherever I aim the right stick, guys.

[Savok]

Maybe it does get better later on, but judging by the demo enemies do seem to soak up the bullets more than they should. I was reading a review in OXM recently and they said the same.
No it gets worse.

[TheFlyingOrc]

No it gets worse.

Haha seriously what game were you guys playing?

[Talanvor]

Is the problem that because of the enemies not dying quickly the game is too difficult?

There's almost no penalty for dying, other than losing some bonuses at the end.

[Iron Past]

Haha seriously what game were you guys playing?

It's apparently a crime to not hate the gameplay. I stand by my statement the gameplay is fine it's just that there's not much to it. Even though I concede that I can absolutely see why someone wouldn't be on board, that same courtesy doesn't go the other way.

The first issue of The Silver Age was too damn long, and the boss fights become fairly similar, but aside from that I have no problems. The robots in the space section take alot to kill, but that's by design, I think. There also needs to be better contrast with interactive elements and the background.

Now, the biggest problem was probably being too ambitious. Saying they spent more time on the bonuses and writing than the gameplay? No shit. That's what they're known for. Compairing this to 'Splosion Man, which had exactly one mechanic, is dumb and compairing this to AAA games on a yearly release is even more so since aside from sports games which don't change, (a) they don't exist (CoD games are a two year dev cycle) and (b) TP is ten fucking people. Anyway, dislike what you want.

[TheFlyingOrc]

It's apparently a crime to not hate the gameplay. I stand by my statement the gameplay is fine it's just that there's not much to it. Even though I concede that I can absolutely see why someone wouldn't be on board, that same courtesy doesn't go the other way.

Oh yeah - I can certainly understand someone not liking it - I didn't much care for splosion man, as it was a cleverly disguised QTE stretched over a whole game (in the single player, at least). However, I think this one is really a preference kind of thing. Comic Jumper is about timing your movement for a bit, but almost every enemy in the game can be taken out before it fires a second time.


The first issue of The Silver Age was too damn long, and the boss fights become fairly similar, but aside from that I have no problems. The robots in the space section take alot to kill, but that's by design, I think. There also needs to be better contrast with interactive elements and the background.

In their unlockables, you see two enemies that were cut from that section, a mummy and a knight. It shows. Also, Mistress Ropes is profoundly uninteresting. LOVE how Smiley looks in that level, though.


Now, the biggest problem was probably being too ambitious. Saying they spent more time on the bonuses and writing than the gameplay? No shit. That's what they're known for. Compairing this to 'Splosion Man, which had exactly one mechanic, is dumb and compairing this to AAA games on a yearly release is even more so since aside from sports games which don't change, (a) they don't exist (CoD games are a two year dev cycle) and (b) TP is ten fucking people. Anyway, dislike what you want.
Yeah, this game actually had 4 completely different playstyles:

Melee (admittedly, this sucked)
The regular game - 2d platforming and shooting
Complex movement and shooting - I'm lumping the downhill slide and the flying levels in here
"You shoot where your cursor points" sections.

And I don't think it would be disingenuous to call the Puttmaster fight a different playstyle.

Hell, you know what? Alien Hominid, which is considered one of the best examples of the genre, had TONS of enemies with stupid brutal amounts of health (stupid vultures).

The game isn't fire and forget, it's "try to focus on each enemy for the correct amount of time".

[Panthera]

Should be an obvious piece of game design that if the player can take a lot of damage in a shoot-em-up then the enemies shouldn't be instant kill. In bullet hell games, the player dies instantly, but so do the enemies.

This is what I'm starting to think of as Demon's Souls syndrome - any game that has the audacity to not roll over and die when the player glances its way is somehow punishing or bad design.

[Talanvor]

This is what I'm starting to think of as Demon's Souls syndrome - any game that has the audacity to not roll over and die when the player glances its way is somehow punishing or bad design.

But isn't that the allure of Demon's Souls? It's hard but not cheap?

[Panthera]

But isn't that the allure of Demon's Souls? It's hard but not cheap?

Yep. But listen to people complain about it.

[TheFlyingOrc]

Should be an obvious piece of game design that if the player can take a lot of damage in a shoot-em-up then the enemies shouldn't be instant kill. In bullet hell games, the player dies instantly, but so do the enemies.

What an excellent point. With full health, the toughest enemies in Comic Jumper only knock off a quarter of your health. Most of the time you can get hit 10-20 times.

One small design problem with the game is how it punishes "pretty good" play.


Let's say the level has 4 checkpoints:

Each bracket represents a part of the level

[ ][ ][ ][ ][ ]

Now, if you're JUST barely good enough to do each section, this is fine:

[ ][ ][ ][ ][ ]
[ ] <- you survive this long

But, fairly often, this happens to me:

[ ][ ][ ][ ][ ]
[ ] <- I die right here

So, for being slightly better than a bad player, I have to replay more content. I understand why it ended up this way (if the checkpoints were closer together, there would never be sections long enough to be challenging to do by themselves). However, it would be nice not to be punished for being pretty awesome. :)

Actually, I think I stumbled on people's problem: The main game actually plays like a brawler a la Final Fight, but with a gun. You fight small groups of enemies with a low, but not instantaneous amount of health, and the emphasis is on dodging well, but not perfectly. It really fits.

[CappinCanuck]

I took a look through some of the info TP has put out. Sad to still see no plans to put their games on PSN. I'd still like to give splosion man a play.

[Farsight]

I like Comic Jumper well enough. The style and goofy sense of humor are aces. I don't have the problem with the gameplay that some of you guys seem to, but it's just not... compelling. It's one of those games I find myself playing more to see content than because the game itself is actually exciting and fun. I'm really impressed with the level of polish the presentation has, but the gameplay feels like a standard downloadable game.

Perhaps I was just spoiled by Splosion Man, which was simply the best platform game I've played in years. It had a refinement to the gameplay that CJ just lacks.

So, my review would be: good game, but better when it goes on sale for $10 down the line...

[Iron Past]

@Farsight
I'd say I completely agree with you.

@TheFlyingOrc
Some of those checkpoints are really, really brutal. A couple times it seemed like I had to replay most of the level.

[Savok]

It has nothing to do with difficulty. Indeed the checkpoints let you simply force your way through. It has everything to do with coming out the other end of a level so utterly irritated at the sloppy design and unresponsive controls I'm unable to enjoy what humour the game has.

[Ririkun]

How much time was there between the release of The Maw and 'Splosion Man? Might it be possible that the lack of refinement in Comic Jumper is due to it getting rushed out from the success of 'Splosion Man?

As for the Demon's Souls comments, yes, it is a hard game. But it's fair, since it doesn't really MAJORLY penalize you for dying. The most of a penalty you get is "wasting" items, having to do the level over again, and a bit of a health drop. Having to do the level again just makes you remember the level more - both in terms of memorization of the level and actually getting used to the game itself. It's not, like, Ninja Gaiden III hard, where you have limited continues and every enemy does double damage from the original version (meaning if an enemy does 3 damage in the original, it actually does 6 damage in the US version). Now THAT is both hard and cheap.

[TheFlyingOrc]

It has nothing to do with difficulty. Indeed the checkpoints let you simply force your way through. It has everything to do with coming out the other end of a level so utterly irritated at the sloppy design and unresponsive controls I'm unable to enjoy what humour the game has.

OK, the game simply does not have unresponsive controls in any way, shape or form. The good Captain does exactly what I tell him to do. We get it, you don't like Comic Jumper because you are bad at it.

And I seriously am not getting the insane level of love for Splosion Man. THE ENTIRE GAME IS A QTE.

[Panthera]

OK, the game simply does not have unresponsive controls in any way, shape or form. The good Captain does exactly what I tell him to do. We get it, you don't like Comic Jumper because you are bad at it.

Very true, maybe you're a more intelligent and reasonable person than I thought.

And I seriously am not getting the insane level of love for Splosion Man. THE ENTIRE GAME IS A QTE.

I was wrong.

[Jason]

I think the controls are fine. But I feel the enemies take a lot more damage than they should which breaks up the flow of the level a little.

[TheFlyingOrc]

Very true, maybe you're a more intelligent and reasonable person than I thought.

I am, I've been trying to tell you.


I was wrong.
I enjoyed the game, but I don't understand the undying love for it. It is very repetitive.

[Farsight]

And I seriously am not getting the insane level of love for Splosion Man. THE ENTIRE GAME IS A QTE.

You're showing off a remarkable lack of understanding of what that term means.

[menage]

Well, I tried it for the first time yersterday going in with low expectations.

It was pretty good, great even. I really love the sound design the most though, these guys should get an award for it for DLC games at least.

Maybe I'll buy it on sale. Too much other stuff now.

[TheFlyingOrc]

You're showing off a remarkable lack of understanding of what that term means.

I'm aware that I'm stretching it, but really, 80% of Splosion Man is hitting the button at the correct time when you are near thing X. Sure, it isn't a large button flashing on the screen, but it operates on a pretty similar principle.

[Panthera]

I'm aware that I'm stretching it, but really, 80% of Splosion Man is hitting the button at the correct time when you are near thing X. Sure, it isn't a large button flashing on the screen, but it operates on a pretty similar principle.

...Mario is a QTE. You just have to push A at the right time.

[TheFlyingOrc]

...Mario is a QTE. You just have to push A at the right time.

Listen, I understand that I'm overstating, but it really, really FEELS I'm just playing a QTE most of the time.

[Akela]

Group hug. Now.

[Spigot]

Just beat the game last night and I had fun with it but more of that fun was had because everything else in the packaged was so awesome compared to the actual act of playing the game. My biggest gripe about the game is, like most of you stated, the enemies are bullet sponges, even with your damage maxed out. I actually liked the boss battles but it just got annoying to slog through everything to get to them.

It was a fun little game for the week it took me to finish it. I do wish they'd have managed to do one less stage per style and given me something like that Western or Horror concept art depicted.

I will stand by whoever else said that if TP could marry the tight gameplay of 'Splosion Man with the storytelling and character of Comic Jumper they'd have the best game ever made :)

[EternalGamer]

Should be an obvious piece of game design that if the player can take a lot of damage in a shoot-em-up then the enemies shouldn't be instant kill. In bullet hell games, the player dies instantly, but so do the enemies.

.

Someone never played Gunstar Heroes, the best game in this genre.

[TheFlyingOrc]

Someone never played Gunstar Heroes, the best game in this genre.

Gunstar is really good and Comic Jumper clearly drew a LOT of ideas from it.

[Spigot]

I think this basically sums up this entire thread.

http://www.duelinganalogs.com/comics/2010-10-07.png

[Talanvor]

I think this basically sums up this entire thread.

I really wanted to post that comic but thought maybe it wouldn't be a good idea.

Thank you for lacking my hesitation! :p

[Spigot]

Posting a relevant webcomic in a contentious thread is NEVER a bad idea :)