Mafia II [Archive] - Colony of Gamers

National Kato

08-20-2010, 12:19 PM

I pre-ordered after playing the demo, as I love open world sandbox games. However, early reviews are saying there isn't much sandbox and the world isn't that open. No side missions and a relatively short storyline. A linear experience is what most are calling it.

Now, I have no problem with well-crafted linear stories - love 'em - but as I was expecting a bit more of a playground to get lost in, I've moved this game to my GameFly rental queue instead. I am disappointed that there isn't at least some sort of diversionary 'gangland' feature or other side missions that would help the time/value equation of buying this game.

So rental it is, and if it's great I'll buy it when it gets discounted.

Blue

08-20-2010, 01:30 PM

Yeah, after hearing reviews and the like what I was interested in initially doesn't really seem to be there (a lot of side stuff to do, etc.). While I'm definitely going to snag it in the future for the story and the atmosphere, I too removed my pre-order as if it's short and not terribly "meaty", I don't want to drop full price on it so I'll wait to nab it later on. Maybe for the Holidays or some such.

civil

08-20-2010, 02:00 PM

I was only able to find one review for this, GI's. Where else did they crop up? I rarely read reviews, but the mention of this being linear (which GI mentions a few times) is making me doubt my pre-order. Oy.

National Kato

08-20-2010, 02:04 PM

I Googled. But Metacritic (http://www.metacritic.com/game/xbox-360/mafia-ii) is a nice clearing house for reviews (save for the boneheaded design update they made to the site, ugh.)

civil

08-20-2010, 02:11 PM

I remember the flap about the redesign. Frankly, I like it. Clean and lean. I don't understand the hate on that at all. Makes me question people!

As for the reviews, those were the same 3 I saw on GameRankings (now that's a shithole of design!) and while I could find GI's review, I couldn't see anything on the other two sites (though admittedly, the design on the UK Xbox one was so bad I jumped ship after a minute). So it's just those three then? Honestly, of the three I'd only trust GI anyway.

Damn, now I got me some worry.

Inspector Fowler

08-20-2010, 02:37 PM

You guys played the first Mafia, right? Linear all the way. Sandbox was a totally separate mode.

Ravenlock

08-20-2010, 04:06 PM

Played it at PAX... meh.

Give the PC demo another try. I also said "meh" to the PAX demo. The Steam demo blew me the fuck away. Night and day difference.

Kelegacy

08-20-2010, 06:56 PM

Played some more tonight. I like the vibrant colors but I might wait on it a bit. Seems to be lacking a few features from other games in this genre. You can't dive from a moving vehicle? Then again, it does feel much more realistic in terms of damage, as I died from hitting another car and I had full health. Also some graphical oddities in the console versions, but the PC comparisons look much better.

I'll see how it fares and might pick it up down the road. I LOVED the first game on PC.

Superman's Dead

08-21-2010, 03:06 AM

I'd buy this game for the soundtrack.

A lot of things that don't fit in the genre make sense when you put them in the world.

When's the last time a mafioso jumped from a moving car? No. That's not how it's done. You'd ruin your suit.

Deadend

08-21-2010, 03:41 AM

I played the 360 demo, I don't know.. I just wasn't feeling it.
I think I am sick of open world crime games and cover-based shooters.

menage

08-21-2010, 04:52 AM

I remember the flap about the redesign. Frankly, I like it. Clean and lean. I don't understand the hate on that at all. Makes me question people!
.

It looks nice, but it doesn´t work like it´s supossed to anymore. Well, it does kinda, but usabilty is rather crap now.

Spigot

08-21-2010, 07:42 AM

I adored the first game on the PC (I heard the console ports were utter shite) and so I was already leaning towards this on Steam. Then I played the demo last night and that sealed the deal. I don't care if it's only 12 hours long as long as it's of the quality of the original and on par with what I saw in the demo. I don't need a big sandbox, to be quite honest. As Inspector Fowler said, the original had the sandbox but was mostly focused on the missions. As long as it keeps having the great atmosphere and set-piece battles that the first one did so well, I'm all over this.

Hell, the soundtrack alone is worth it.

By the way, did you guys see that story on Kotaku about the Italian-American Association (or what have you) flapping his gums about how horrible it was that the bad guys in Mafia 2 are Italian? Sheesh. Though it would have been awesome if you played as part of the Irish mafia...

Spigot

08-21-2010, 07:45 AM

Wait... The game is getting a 90, 84 and 73 and you guys are worried about it being any good? Sheesh. Sure, it'll be nice to see some more scores (or at the very least read some more reviews) but I thought from the 'concern' that the game was trending in the mid 60s!

civil

08-21-2010, 08:51 AM

JayK47

08-21-2010, 09:06 AM

Well I will be a holdout and keep my pre-order. If anything, I want to be the one guy who picks up a PC game pre-order at my local Gamestop. I'll probably walk in and be informed that they never ordered it. I mean, who the hell buys PC games anymore?

The game sounds like the first game with a cover mechanic. Hey guys, it is what they have to do. You may be bored of cover, but if they leave it out, the game would have much lower scores and big time whining from critics. Only "awesome" games like MW2 can get away without it these days. The way I look at it, if you decide to go with a 3rd person view, you may as well include it. First person games with cover seem out of place. And wasn't the first game about 12 hours long? I guess you could say they stuck to the mafia formula. However, it has been 8 damn years since the original, and maybe following the exact same formula doesn't cut it these days. I wouldn't mind a few side missions. Maybe that is the plan through DLC.

Anyways, timing is everything. There is nothing that I have to play right now except Bad Company 2, which I am about sick of. I eagerly await Mafia 2 and am more than willing to pay full retail for it.

Crittias

08-21-2010, 09:10 AM

I'm very excited for this game. Limited sandbox is actually a checkbox in the positive for me. I usually stick to the storylines in games like GTA anyway. And the first Mafia game holds a special place in my heart. Something about the tone, the music, the style, it all just worked. I'm expecting Mafia2 to continue that magic, especially on my Magic PC.

Kelegacy

08-21-2010, 10:03 AM

Bah. Wound up canceling the pre-order and throwing it up on GameFly (thankfully I had a spot open). At this point I only buy games at full price that I can get 30+ hours from (which usually lasts me 2-3 months). RDR lasted me a while, as did ME2 (which I think are the only games I've actually bought at full price this year).

I'm the same. I only buy games at full price that I KNOW will last me a couple weeks. Anything under 10 hours is a no sale until it hits at least half price or more. Usually more.

I don't want developers to bloat their games to make them in my price range in terms of hours, but I think perhaps instead they should price them better. Like Kane and Lynch 2 being under 4 hours and still being $60. Lame.

Akela

08-21-2010, 10:48 AM

I put little value into critic's opinion. All I want are some facts - how long the game is? How polished are some of the key in-game mechanics, like, say, shooting? Are there any obvious annoyances that will instantly make me cringe?

Other than that I'll try a demo and come to my own conclusions...

This pretty much started after I've glanced over a Front Mission 4 review (IGN, if memory serves) by a gentleman that, by his own admittance, hated Giant Mechs.

I never wanted the 2 minutes of my life back so bad.

As far as Mafia II goes - I've seen the demo...I like it. I haven't heard anything particularly bad about the game. The combination of the two makes it a pretty safe purchase in my mind. Not looking for my opinion to be approved by a majority vote. :)

Spigot

08-21-2010, 11:16 AM

Well I will be a holdout and keep my pre-order. If anything, I want to be the one guy who picks up a PC game pre-order at my local Gamestop. I'll probably walk in and be informed that they never ordered it. I mean, who the hell buys PC games anymore?More like, who the hell buys PC games at Gamestop anymore? The only PC game I've actually purchased a box copy of in at least a year was SC2 and that was because I had store credit at EB. Otherwise, Steam all the way!

I'm very excited for this game. Limited sandbox is actually a checkbox in the positive for me. I usually stick to the storylines in games like GTA anyway. And the first Mafia game holds a special place in my heart. Something about the tone, the music, the style, it all just worked. I'm expecting Mafia2 to continue that magic, especially on my Magic PC.I hear ya. 8 years out and the original Mafia is still one of my faves from the 2000s, even with all the kvetching and moaning about 'The Race'. I want the sequel to have just the same amount of city to drive around in and give the world some flavour. I don't need another RDR-sized expanse to get lost in.

I'm the same. I only buy games at full price that I KNOW will last me a couple weeks. Anything under 10 hours is a no sale until it hits at least half price or more. Usually more. I'm sure that Mafia 2 won't clock in under 10 hours. And while I'm usually in the same boat as far as pricing games at intelligently with regards to their length, the love I feel for the first Mafia game coupled with just how awesome the Steam demo was makes this an insta-sell, even if it clocks in at 12 hours, which I doubt. And these days I'm able to sometimes stretch a 9 hours game into a 3 week affair :)

This pretty much started after I've glanced over a Front Mission 4 review (IGN, if memory serves) by a gentleman that, by his own admittance, hated Giant Mechs.

I never wanted the 2 minutes of my life back so bad.OH man, I hate it when I read reviews like that. It's fine if it's a counterpoint from someone who isn't a fan of Game X or Franchise Y or Doodad Z, esp. if it's something along the lines of, "I don't like Giant Mechs, but boy howdy, do I ever love me some Front Mission 4!" But why have your main reviewer be someone who outright states their dislike of a genre or franchise? It's like getting me to review a sports game. I don't like most official sports and I don't like most sports games. I'm not going to notice much of the nuance of Madden 11 or its ilk and won't appreciate any of the attention to detail.

Spectre-7

08-21-2010, 11:58 AM

Give the PC demo another try. I also said "meh" to the PAX demo. The Steam demo blew me the fuck away. Night and day difference.

I'm actually kind of surprised at the response the demo is getting. I've played it quite a bit, but it feels like there isn't much there (even for a demo). I like the cover and wanted systems, and the mission was well done, but there's very little to do otherwise. It feels like it lacks interactivity.

There were also a few immersion breakers. I hate that if you kill one of the black guys in a colored jacket, every one of his friends instantly knows and starts shooting at you. I'm peeved that it only allows you to climb certain fences and walls; if I want to jump over the railing and fall five stories to my death, let me.

I like knocking off stores and running away from cops as much as the next guy, but I guess I just don't see where holy-fuck-wow factor is. :(

Spigot

08-21-2010, 01:02 PM

I didn't muck around outside of the main story parts of the demo but I loved it from start to finish. I don't really want to try to break the game so it scratched the right itch for me :)

Akela

08-21-2010, 02:30 PM

I like knocking off stores and running away from cops as much as the next guy, but I guess I just don't see where holy-fuck-wow factor is. :(

That's just that, though: It does not have to be "holy-fuck-wow"-caliber of a game to justify a purchase and/or provide moneys worth of enjoyment.

Though, of course, the "moneys worth" is a subjective term.

Spectre-7

08-21-2010, 03:13 PM

That's just that, though: It does not have to be "holy-fuck-wow"-caliber of a game to justify a purchase and/or provide moneys worth of enjoyment.

Never said it did. I'm responding to the holy-fuck-wow response it got in the demo thread.

Superman's Dead

08-21-2010, 03:19 PM

Never said it did. I'm responding to the holy-fuck-wow response it got in the demo thread.

I felt like I was in the first 20 minutes of Goodfellas. That was enough for me to give it the ol' holy-fuck-wow.

Spectre-7

08-21-2010, 03:39 PM

KillerMcDead

08-21-2010, 03:53 PM

Fair enough. And just to be clear, I'm not trying to dump on the game. It seems fun and all, and they really nailed the atmosphere. With the way people were going on about it in the demo thread, though, I came in expecting to be blown away, and instead found it to be... adequate.

Different strokes for different folks, and all that jazz.

The biggest Holy-Fuck for me in the demo was watching the physics and how they worked. When the chunks of wall I just shot up start to pile up on the floor, when I use the mounted gun to shoot crates, then a car, then watching the explosions. Super polished. In my opinion, a good physics engine can take a rather mediocre shooter and make it great. Not to mention I'm a huge Mafia buff, and they seem to have the period pegged rather well.

civil

08-21-2010, 04:02 PM

To be clear, I wasn't poo pooing the game, I was poo pooing me spending that much of my dough on it right away. I actually haven't played the demo, as I would like to experience everything fresh. But I dug the last game, so I'm hoping GF does right by me (I've got both the 360 and PS3 version in my queue to CMA). I'm excited to give it a spin, just not plunk down $60 on it.

National Kato

08-21-2010, 04:28 PM

To be clear, I wasn't poo pooing the game, I was poo pooing me spending that much of my dough on it right away.

civil and I are on the same page. I pre-ordered the game after playing the demo because it was so great (I used the time cheat). I started gang wars, robbed stores, blew up gas stations, got in long-ass fights with cops. It was great. But I enjoyed that thinking it was a glimpse of a larger world, filled with variation and diversions. Something ultimately worth my $60.

With GameFly, if a game doesn't have multiplayer and/or an extended single player experience, I'll rent first and buy if I love it, e.g. The Saboteur (which, incidentally, has more to do in it than Mafia 2).

Exodus

08-21-2010, 04:39 PM

I'm a big fan of the first one game how long was it?
I'm with spigot the first one got a lot of love from me. I probably won't pre-order however until I find out if it was the same as the first in length. If it is, sold.

I'm not interested in multiplayer whatsoever.

Spigot

08-21-2010, 04:52 PM

You know how long the original was? It was just long enough, that's how long it was!

Exodus

08-21-2010, 04:59 PM

You know how long the original was? It was just long enough, that's how long it was!

Well I want to know how long it was because I can't remember. There's been a LOT of gaming since then....a LOT of gaming.

Spigot

08-21-2010, 07:52 PM

Well I want to know how long it was because I can't remember. There's been a LOT of gaming since then....a LOT of gaming.I just told you! It was as long as it needed to be... however long you may think that is :) Don't look too closely! It may tarnish the shine!

Exodus

08-21-2010, 08:31 PM

I just told you! It was as long as it needed to be... however long you may think that is :) Don't look too closely! It may tarnish the shine!

Yah well now a days companies are saying to themselves...look how awesome MW2 did! Screw single player stories! Let's make multiplayer games instead!

Case in point? Kane and Lynch 2....

Karak

08-21-2010, 10:57 PM

This pretty much started after I've glanced over a Front Mission 4 review (IGN, if memory serves) by a gentleman that, by his own admittance, hated Giant Mechs.

I never wanted the 2 minutes of my life back so bad.

High five!

That was the same exact game that caused me to rethink EVERYTHING about how I check out games. Hahahahaha.
But for me it was the game that I could not live through.

I could not have been so raped in my life. It is a sick and twisted thing to release a game so bad.

menage

08-22-2010, 05:24 AM

So apparantly the game is racist. (http://www.next-gen.biz/news/italian-american-group-claims-mafia-ii-is-racist)

I´d say forgetaboutit. But jeez, where are these people when a new mob movie hits.

I loved this bit though

"Why would [Take-Two] foist a game on their targeted audience of young people wherein they will indoctrinate a new generation into directly associating Italians and Italian-Americans with violent, murderous organised crime, to the exclusion of all of the other 'mafias' run by other ethnic and racial groups?"

He obviously has never seen a videogame in his life. But hey, if it helps, drop some Yakuza in there and everything is allright I guess.

BigJonno

08-22-2010, 05:33 AM

"Why would [Take-Two] foist a game on their targeted audience of young people wherein they will indoctrinate a new generation into directly associating Italians and Italian-Americans with violent, murderous organised crime, to the exclusion of all of the other 'mafias' run by other ethnic and racial groups?"

The amazingly ironic bit about this quote is that I've heard of Italians and Italian-Americans getting up in arms when the term 'mafia' is used to describe other organised crime syndicates.

And, obviously, there are all the dozens of mafia books, movies and TV shows, which are often meticulously researched, authentically detailed or based on first-hand accounts.

Spigot

08-22-2010, 06:30 AM

I still say that Mafia 2 would have been even MORE awesome if they had you play as a member of the Irish Mafia :)

But yeah, that guy's a moron. I love how the news story about it is front and center on the Steam store page for the game :)

Spigot

08-22-2010, 06:31 AM

Yah well now a days companies are saying to themselves...look how awesome MW2 did! Screw single player stories! Let's make multiplayer games instead!

Case in point? Kane and Lynch 2....Is there any multiplayer in Mafia 2? I was under the impression that the focus of the game was SP all the way and as long as they craft as good a story with as excellent a series of set-pieces as the original, I'd be perfectly happy with a 12 hour long epic.

Generation ABXY

08-22-2010, 11:04 AM

I got a chuckle out of Zelnick's response, though... I imagine they just have a form letter they fill out every time someone complains. :D

Inspector Fowler

08-22-2010, 01:03 PM

As a person of Irish descent, I think it's time for me to complain that this game makes me kill Irishmen. Also, the demo has a slur implying that Irishmen are all drunks.

What idiocy. I thought The Departed was that much cooler for having Irish mobsters. It inspired me to read some books on the history of both Whitey Bulger's group and the Irish mob in general, and I learned a lot about the history of politics in this country and the Irish immigrants that helped build the US.

Oooor, I could have gotten all indignant. You know, whatever.

CES

08-22-2010, 01:09 PM

Yah well now a days companies are saying to themselves...look how awesome MW2 did! Screw single player stories! Let's make multiplayer games instead!

Case in point? Kane and Lynch 2....

K&L2 isn't a fair point to make. The original was an uninspired shitfest so you can't really call the sequel out for being the same. IOI need to stop trying to make new, shitty games and get back to what they do best, Hitman.

Exodus

08-22-2010, 01:22 PM

Is there any multiplayer in Mafia 2? I was under the impression that the focus of the game was SP all the way and as long as they craft as good a story with as excellent a series of set-pieces as the original, I'd be perfectly happy with a 12 hour long epic.

That's what I'm looking for Spig, if it's that, I am happy and will pre-order asap.

They did such a good job with the audio, the feel, the style and the writing for the first game. I want more of that.

Inspector Fowler

08-22-2010, 01:58 PM

Hey, for those of you who wanna experience the game but don't want to pay the full price - it's on Steam, for heaven's sake - how long until it's on sale for like $8.99 or something? ;)

Spigot

08-22-2010, 02:03 PM

Hey, for those of you who wanna experience the game but don't want to pay the full price - it's on Steam, for heaven's sake - how long until it's on sale for like $8.99 or something? ;)
I was actually debating doing this but I want to support the game and give it some boost during the first few weeks... plus I fell in love with the demo because it felt so much like the original in every positive way I could imagine.

civil

08-23-2010, 07:55 AM

Whoo! GameFly shipped the game out this morning, which is unbelievable. And in my preferred platform (360). I'll be shooting Irish in no time!

fitbabits

08-23-2010, 11:02 AM

Farsight

08-23-2010, 12:48 PM

Whoo! GameFly shipped the game out this morning, which is unbelievable. And in my preferred platform (360). I'll be shooting Irish in no time!

Gamefly served it up to me as well. You're not special!

(the advantages of having nothing left to rent)

To top it off, I'm going to make it my goal to always be ahead of you on the IrishKiller Leaderboards. And I'm Irish!

Orca

08-23-2010, 02:52 PM

I loved the first Mafia.

Downloaded the Mafia II demo on 360 and played it for 20 minutes. Didn't like it - where did the magic go?

---

Played the demo again yesterday and actually liked it this time. It has just enough of the old Mafia magic to have me considering a purchase. Most likely a rental, though.

I was kind of the same. Wasn't sold on the demo first time, but liked it the second. Finished the game yesterday and was glad that it came in. I didn't like it as much as the first one though. Roaming around isn't as much fun, though it's a lot more lenient about the rules of the road. I was constantly in trouble for running red lights in the first game :D

Spigot

08-23-2010, 03:16 PM

I was kind of the same. Wasn't sold on the demo first time, but liked it the second. Finished the game yesterday and was glad that it came in. I didn't like it as much as the first one though. Roaming around isn't as much fun, though it's a lot more lenient about the rules of the road. I was constantly in trouble for running red lights in the first game :DThat's what the speed limiter is for!

menage

08-24-2010, 02:27 AM

Ouch - (http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2010-08-23-mafia-ii-review)

I know Eurogamer isn't the best source for reviews at times, but the things mentioned made me wanna back up on this big time. I should have know with the playboy already:P

BigJonno

08-24-2010, 03:51 AM

Just spent some time reading a bunch of reviews; I love doing this when I see games getting a wide range of scores. With the exception of a couple of the higher scored reviews, the same complaints crop up every time (story is a mish-mash of Mafia cliche, too many dull driving sections, fighting is rubbish, shooting does the job, but not much else.) It seems that some critics enjoyed the story and gave it a pass based on that, while others were more keen to highlight the problems. The guy who reviewed it for Eurogamer really took it apart, although all of the criticisms seem valid.

Ravenlock

08-24-2010, 07:03 AM

Well, from my extensive time with the demo I'd certainly agree that the fist-fighting isn't good, but I can't imagine you spend that much time doing it in the game. The shooting, though, I actually thought was pretty great. I enjoyed the cover mechanic, the weapons all felt tight to me, the euphoria physics on the enemies as you hit them looks and feels great, and the environmental destruction adds a lot to the atmosphere. For a GTA-style 3rd person game I thought it was some of the best gunplay I've seen.

EDIT: Ouch, that really is a harsh review. I guess I can't really speak much about their complaints, though, because he seems most disappointed with the exploration and story, two things the demo only gives you tiny hints of. I agree that the section of the city in the demo doesn't have a ton to do, but I also figured it was a pretty small section of a big-looking city. Maybe it's all like that.

He also has problems, though, with things that I really liked in the first Mafia, like the tougher-to-handle and slower cars and the traffic-aware police. I would be curious to hear more of his thoughts on the first game, because it seems like he didn't like it, in which case I know we're starting from very different places.

Spigot

08-24-2010, 07:09 AM

I remember the original game getting must mauled in the reviews for many of the same complaints, esp. the driving.

Well, I've pulled the trigger, so to speak, and will be the guinea pig for the PC version. It's almost finished the DL from Steam and I'll hopefully get some time with it before work this morning. Now if I finish it tonight after I get home, I'll be livid, but as long as I can eke out a few days worth of gaming and enjoy it as much as I did the demo and the original, I'll be fine.

National Kato

08-24-2010, 07:54 AM

The reviews do tell me that I made the right choice in changing this from a purchase to a rental. I really had high hopes, even after the demo, as to what the game would offer. After all, I robbed stores and started turf wars in the demo - surely I'd be able to do that in the full game? You know, as diversions that added to my progress, either by rep or turf or something? It's 2010 and we've seen so many open world games with interesting tasks outside of the main narrative.

I don't blame 2K for making a linear narrative. There's a place for that in gaming and I applaud a well-crafted story with limitations. After all, my own background is in film and there is no audience choice in that medium. I had hopes of something a bit more immersive. Something I could get lost in for weeks (a la RDR). I wish it was something to be found in Mafia 2.

Spigot

08-24-2010, 08:44 AM

Meh. I'm digging the story so far. Only in Chapter 2 after an hour play (the first chapter is just a tutorial) but so far, so good.

Was the console demo different from the Steam demo? I didn't try it on the PS3 or 360 but the Steam one seemed to be all about a straight narrative mission with only a few minutes to fart around in the city.

National Kato

08-24-2010, 08:58 AM

Was the console demo different from the Steam demo? I didn't try it on the PS3 or 360 but the Steam one seemed to be all about a straight narrative mission with only a few minutes to fart around in the city.

No, but there was a time limit workaround (just don't ever arrive at the mission and it will give you repeatable 12 minutes periods to goof off with). I spent a lot of time exploring using that method and getting into hijinks.

iHap

08-24-2010, 09:02 AM

Bought it last night and played a couple minutes of the game before i left for work. Interesting starting point for the game. So far I am enjoying it, haven't gotten further than the long cutscenes are one actual play time.

Spectre-7

08-24-2010, 09:29 AM

I enjoyed the cover mechanic, the weapons all felt tight to me, the euphoria physics on the enemies as you hit them looks and feels great...

I could be mistaken, but I didn't think they were using Euphoria. In fact, the hit animations seem canned on my system, although that might be because I have the PhysX effects disabled.

Spigot

08-24-2010, 09:53 AM

I don't know if it's the PhysX stuff that keeps bringing what is normally a very powerful system to its knees, but every so often when things are getting hairy, my game slows to a crawl. If I die, everything is fine, so I wonder if it's just the PhysX stuff being rendered everywhere that's choking my system. I should probably update all of my drivers :)

Ravenlock

08-24-2010, 10:59 AM

Hunh - you're right, Spectre, it doesn't use Euphoria, I just made that assumption based on how similar the character reactions seemed to GTA IV.

I know the bodies ragdoll appropriately after being shot / exploded, so I'm guessing that's governed by Havok? But I can't swear that the hit animations aren't canned, I guess. They didn't feel like it to me - I'll try the demo again tonight when I get home and see if I feel differently when I'm really looking for it. I do have PhysX turned on, but I thought that was only for debris / cloth simulation, not for body physics.

Inspector Fowler

08-24-2010, 06:14 PM

So far the story seems grounded and realistic. I understand why Vito, given his past, doesn't have a problem with the things I've started to do.

I've resorted to using my 360 controller. The driving just sucks ass without analog controls, and given that a single car crash can kill you (trust me ;) ) at full health, it just seemed smarter.

I also just had my first CTD, although when I actually hit my desktop there were some system messages from other programs, so I don't know what was going on in the computer. I wish I had a better video card but even on an old 8800 GTS the game still looks fantastic.

Edit - Also, concerning the music. Yeah, it's cool, and it's "period" and all. But it repeats an awful lot. I think a game like this could do well to team up with a streaming service like Pandora. Internet-connected gamers could have the option to turn on the music stream so that when they got in a car or near a radio they could hear one of a couple Pandora streams that Take Two had specifically arranged for the game - as the chapters progress the parameters for the stream would automatically change to accommodate the later releases.

Just a thought, but I think that for a little pre-game advertising (right around the time the Nvidia logo pops up, I think) there are probably streaming music services that would jump on this.

Crittias

08-24-2010, 07:06 PM

I've resorted to using my 360 controller. The driving just sucks ass without analog controls, and given that a single car crash can kill you (trust me ;) ) at full health, it just seemed smarter. I may have to try this. I need a wireless receiver for my controller, however. Anyone have suggestions on the best place to find one?

Karak

08-24-2010, 07:18 PM

I was just about to pull the trigger then starting reading the issues this game has.
Great Jebus!
I will NOT touch this until they fix the CTD's, the slowdown issues, disk thrashing, and about 100 other issues. It just sounds horrid as a full game.

Spigot

08-24-2010, 08:30 PM

Karak

08-24-2010, 09:36 PM

Karak, I've only had it slow down the once but I do have everything cranked to max. I haven't had it crash yet and aside from that slowdown during a crazy firefight with everything crashing to the ground, it has been running just fine for me. I had a he'll if a lot more trouble getting Just Cause 2 to run smoothly and reliably on my rig than this.

Copy. I saw some here, but basically everywhere I am looking its being fucking hammered as a complete utter beta.
I am not sure. 60 bucks for a game I didn't play the first much of. I wanted to get it but just the idea of one more fucking PC game with issues might send me over the edge. I will think about it tonight and figure it out.

Ravenlock

08-24-2010, 09:42 PM

Well, I logged into OnLive to try their 30 minute demo (which is just 30 minutes of actual play, not the official demo) and I liked what I played. The atmosphere really is top notch, and the acting seems solid even if the story is somewhat trite. If it's a good ride, that'll be enough to make me happy, it doesn't have to be the best open-world game ever.

That said, I'm not in a huge rush to buy it, I have more than too much to play as it is.

You were right about the hit animations, though, they are canned - bodies go to ragdoll when blown up or killed, but not when shot. My mistake.

Spigot

08-24-2010, 09:45 PM

Copy. I saw some here, but basically everywhere I am looking its being fucking hammered as a complete utter beta.
I am not sure. 60 bucks for a game I didn't play the first much of. I wanted to get it but just the idea of one more fucking PC game with issues might send me over the edge. I will think about it tonight and figure it out.To be fair, it's $50 for the game on Steam (at least it was yesterday) unless you go for the Deluxe edition...

And it's probably a game you can wait for in a Steam sale come Christmas if you're not a huge fan of the first like I am. I ADORED the original so I'm willing to look past a few of the faults of the sequel, though so far aside from the chugging when things get crazy with the PhysX stuff, it's been pretty smooth. I'm about to fire it up for a bit before I go to bed so I'll definately report back if it starts to get hinky.

This is one of the few games I've bought on Steam at launch rather than waiting for a sale and I'm hoping I'm not looking at it with rose-coloured glasses either. But it definately doesn't seem to be this utter train-wreck of a game (on a technical level at least) that I've heard muttered about here and there.

Wilkz07

08-24-2010, 09:49 PM

picked up my CE preorder today - got the CE only because I had a lot of trade credit. So far its a solid game.

Looks like this will be longer than the 2.5hrs it took me to get through Kane & Lynch 2.

Exodus

08-24-2010, 09:55 PM

Count me in the dept of waiting until it becomes cheaper. Time is money friend!

Spigot

08-24-2010, 10:42 PM

Just made it to Chapter 3. Liking it so far and no more slowdown since that first big shootout in Chapter 1. I should make sure my drivers are up to date...

KillerMcDead

08-24-2010, 10:47 PM

Chapter 4. THOROUGHLY enjoying myself. To avoid chugging I had to set the PhysX to medium, and to be perfectly honest, I haven't noticed a difference in the physics at all. It's a little disappointing however, as my computer should run this game without a hitch.

I'm gonna go ahead and accuse Nvidia of of somehow conspiring against me and my ATI card. Whatever, still having a great time.

Spigot

08-24-2010, 10:57 PM

I've got an Nvida card, so it should run like butter but I haven't updated the drivers in ages, so I'll do that first.

And worst case scenario, I'll knock the PhysX stuff down a tinch...

Just read the Joystiq review. Blech. It's like I'm playing a totally different game. Dorky dork-face of a reviewer, hatin' on my game!

Superman's Dead

08-25-2010, 02:29 AM

Got it from Gamefly, played the first chapter and some of Two, and I dig it. I love the setting, I love the music, I love the look.

I like that the gunplay isn't difficult to control, but it isn't easy. It reminds me of Demon's Souls. If I act like an idiot, I will get shot. This is not Army Of Two.

Crittias

08-25-2010, 07:04 AM

The only thing I thought was kind of silly was the Playboy.

http://www.virtualshackles.com/img/mafia2.jpg

Ravenlock

08-25-2010, 07:55 AM

If I may take a moment to rant about something almost completely unconnected, it pisses me off a bit that OnLive is only selling a "full pass" for this game. Many of the games on OnLive's service offer day passes (3- or 5-day, I think, I'm not looking at it right now) for a few bucks, and that's actually an arrangement I'd be totally comfortable with, because while it's not a perfect experience it's still better, I think, than trying to play it on the 360 (the other place I could rent it) and while I'm not willing to put $50 into it, I'd be willing to put in $5 or so for a rental.

But for Mafia II and Splinter Cell: Conviction, they don't offer day passes, it's full price or nothing. I can only assume this is precisely because they (where "they" is either OnLive or the game's publisher or a combination of both) understand that these are short, narrative-driven, single-player experiences that could indeed be completed over the course of a rental and so nobody would buy the full game. To which I say: fuck you. That's the goddamn point of a rental; to allow people who don't want to own your game to still pay for the privilege of playing it, however briefly. Withholding that options from me doesn't mean you suddenly convince me to pay $50, it just means you get $0 instead of $5. This is precisely the sort of bullshit that will make OnLive fail.

Sorry, rant over. Return to talking about Mafia II. I'll rejoin the discussion after a Steam sale or after I cave on renting it for 360, I guess.

Spectre-7

08-25-2010, 09:53 AM

You were right about the hit animations, though, they are canned - bodies go to ragdoll when blown up or killed, but not when shot. My mistake.

No worries. I'd just seen a number of guys fall in very similar ways, and wasn't getting that Euphoria feel, although I do think they're pretty convincing animations. Credit to their animators on that one.

Superman's Dead

08-25-2010, 11:42 AM

Further thoughts:

I like that you can't jump out of your car. It doesn't fit with the world.

The damage on cars is really really good. I wince every time I see a beat-up ride. It makes me reeeeeeally want to be careful to take care of a car I really like.

This game hasn't pulled any punches to make it more PC so far, and I like that. Joe is hilarious.

divinechaos

08-25-2010, 11:50 AM

I like naked chicks. I like naked chicks from another era even more.

Spectre-7

08-25-2010, 11:51 AM

I like naked chicks. I like naked chicks from another era even more.

Have you ever considered an exciting career in time travel?

icronic

08-25-2010, 12:31 PM

About 10 chapters in.... I'm feeling kind of a love hate relationship with the game.

The city and the atmosphere in general are excellent, there are tons of interesting looking areas and places, and there's just so much detail to everything, but it all feels like wasted potential.

The plot. It's good, yet it's not. My problem with it is that it just moves so incredibly fast, and there are so many characters, none of which it really devotes any time to. There are also a couple instances where a noticeable amount of time passes between chapters yet they refer to past events like they just happened yesterday.

The flow also leaves something to be desired. The majority of the missions involve a driving. Driving driving and driving. Also there's just far too much pointless melee in the first 5 or so chapters. 10 chapters in and there really has only been 4 major firefights that I can recall. Realistic though that may be, I'd like to be seeing more action and a little less driving.

I haven't had any problems on the technical side, at least after I turned PhysX off. PhysX on medium actually seems pretty pointless, sure it does a few kinda cool things, but as a whole you won't really notice the difference between it on an off, aside from the fact the game will run a hell of a lot better.

I guess I just wish they went all out GTA style for this. I completely understand why they took a linear approach, but I just don't think it's working in their favor since they're squishing so much story into such a short game.

However despite all this, I've played 10 chapters in 2 days. With the exception of Heavy Rain, I've not played a game this much in this short of a time for many many years. I guess in the end, it's a great game that could have been so much more.

civil

08-25-2010, 12:48 PM

KillerMcDead

08-25-2010, 12:52 PM

I guess I just wish they went all out GTA style for this.

And I on the other hand, am overjoyed that they didn't.

icronic

08-25-2010, 01:02 PM

icronic, how many hours would you say it's taken you to get through 10 chapters? How many are there total, anyway?

Got this in the mail today, really looking forward to playing though I have a feeling it won't be until next week.

According to the stats it's taken me just over 6 hours to get to chapter 10, and if the achievements are to be believed there are only 14 chapters. As the game goes on the chapters are getting dramatically longer, so I'm really hoping that the trend continues. My % complete is only 48% at the moment so I expect I have a good deal of game to go yet - Unless playboy and posters account for something stupid like 30% anyway.

On a side note, while I dislike how squirrelly the cars can get, I absolutely love the weight they've got going over bumps and dips, driving around the back alleys can be a real blast, and bring back some fond memories of Driver.

civil

08-25-2010, 01:10 PM

fitbabits

08-25-2010, 02:22 PM

I'll be digging in the dumpster thinking I've only gone around half way through it only to find I'm almost done and a good chunk of my time is spent rummaging around collecting toilet paper rolls or something.
Orly.....?

Superman's Dead

08-25-2010, 03:39 PM

I'm doing a mission where I have to drive around town and accomplish things under a certain time limit, and my car isn't the fastest so I'm trying to hustle.

I had to get out and drop something off, but a news bulletin came on announcing that Russian soldiers found mass graves at a place called Auschwitz in Poland. I almost didn't want to get out of the car so I could hear the whole thing.

That was an unexpectedly intense moment.

Spigot

08-25-2010, 04:22 PM

Yeah. The news bulletins and such are really well done.

BigJonno

08-25-2010, 04:24 PM

So it very well may be around a 10 hour game, which is what the impressions I was getting were. Thanks for the info.

As a side note, I hate not having story/achievements as separate completion percentages. I'll be digging a game thinking I've only gone around half way through it only to find I'm almost done and a good chunk of the game is running around collecting toiler paper rolls or something.

Was it Limbo that was recently criticised for this? You actually finish the game at 70% or something. I might be wrong, but I definitely heard some complaints about a recent game along these lines.

crazyD

08-25-2010, 04:27 PM

I played a bit last night, and am really digging it so far. My only real complaint so far is that there are no mid-mission checkpoints. I was almost to the end of that mission where you have to sell the gas stamps to the stations, only to get in a head on collision and die, starting me right back at the beginning. It would be awesome if you got a checkpoint at each gas station. Or, even better, if the game allowed quick saving.

Superman's Dead

08-25-2010, 04:33 PM

Spigot

08-25-2010, 04:37 PM

I just wish that you could save whenever you want instead of at story segments. The missions aren't quite as blatant as they are in a GTA style of game and can evolve organically. If I have to stop, I like to know if I'm going to have to redo a huge chunk of the chapter or not. Maybe I just haven't played far enough to really get a handle on when/where to save...

Crittias

08-25-2010, 06:00 PM

I had a "Bullett" "Bullitt" moment earlier today, where a particularly sharp turn sent at least one of my hubcaps flying. Pure win, that little detail.

So far, I'm having enormous fun with this game.

fitbabits

08-25-2010, 06:03 PM

I had a "Bullett" moment earlier today, where a particularly sharp turn sent at least one of my hubcaps flying. Pure win, that little detail.

So far, I'm having enormous fun with this game.
Bullitt:

GMc2RdFuOxI

icronic

08-25-2010, 06:36 PM

Bullitt:

I love that at the end of that you can see that the Charger clearly missed the gas station. Oops!

Why the hell can't they make car chases like that in movies anymore?

crazyD

08-25-2010, 07:09 PM

Cause CG is cheaper.

Crittias

08-25-2010, 08:57 PM

Okay, I'm pleased with the early section of Chapter 14:
sending Salieri's regards to Mafia 1's Tommy Angelo was very cool. I should've seen it coming, but I didn't until about two seconds before we pulled up in front of his house. Big smile from ear to ear when I saw Tommy watering his lawn.

Superman's Dead

08-26-2010, 02:45 AM

I love that at the end of that you can see that the Charger clearly missed the gas station. Oops!

Why the hell can't they make car chases like that in movies anymore?

I think it's worth it to note that Bullitt was the first of its kind, making it an exception rather than a rule.

Inspector Fowler

08-26-2010, 12:42 PM

Fuck the fucking safe/gas stamps mission in Chapter 3. Fuck the fucking designers. Fuck it in the fucking mouth.

When you tell me I can't kill anybody or I lose most of my take, and then put me up against 6 armed cops who all know where I am no matter where I hide, even if they didn't see me, I feel like I am failing the mission. Yes, I can shoot them all. That is not the problem.

The problem is that your cocksucking mission told me not to do it and I don't have any way of not killing them, since they are all heat-seeking coppers who know where I am.

Crittias

08-26-2010, 02:31 PM

fitbabits

08-26-2010, 02:39 PM

Inspector Fowler

08-26-2010, 02:47 PM

The thing that frustrated me was that I did pass the mission really easily once I decided that the actual mission instructions were bullshit. But then I wonder - is there some secret to passing it...better?

Like,

Is there some way to disable the safe alarm? I mean, the fucking thing has a flashing red light above it. Is there some room I didn't explore?

And I was really pissed that you can't sneak around. After the alarm, but right before the cops, I went and hid during one of my attempts. Ran in a room and closed the door. Watched the map - yep, every cop came right to my room. They were bottlenecked in the door trying to come in and shoot me.

So it pisses me off that it tells me that if I shoot anybody I'm a fuck up, and then it pretty much makes me shoot everybody. Fuck, I should have just shot all the damn guards in the first place instead of being all sneaky.

Oh, and Crittias, no. I didn't. I assume that is the "magic place" that they wanted me to go to that I couldn't find. Ah well.

Farsight

08-26-2010, 03:57 PM

What's really annoying is that strangling everyone is a perfectly acceptable way to 100% succeed at that mission. So, my first time through I refused to shoot anyone, grabbed the stash and ran for it, dodging bullets (not Bullits), somehow made it out using Neo moves... and 'failed'. Yet the second time I left a string of corpses with broken necks, and was congratulated for keeping things quiet.

Immersion killed. :)

SPOILER FOR 2 or 3 CHAPTERS LATER

And in retrospect, it now seems odd that the story suggests a proper legal penalty for that crime spree was a 10 year prison term.

National Kato

08-26-2010, 04:00 PM

Inspector, you missed a room. See Crittias' hint.

Superman's Dead

08-26-2010, 04:02 PM

I think it's because there's no way to go over conversations that just happened, and my roommate was talking to me while I was dropping that woman off.

I had the same problem.

Inspector Fowler

08-26-2010, 07:53 PM

Well, here is what I heard from her:

Go in the basement window. The director's office is upstairs. Go up and get the safe key off his desk. Then go to the safe and get the stamps. I don't think she said shit about there being an alarm that can only be deactivated via a secondary objective that the game won't ever tell you about.

I kinda think they're implying that you are just knocking those guards unconscious.

Also, while the prison bit was a little bit irritating, I felt that coming back to the outside world with its changed cars, music, and clothes was much more impactful that way than just saying, "6 years later...."

All in all I am very much enjoying it. It's a good story well told. Not as much murdering as I thought I'd be doing, but I'm only about halfway through (it's a busy week for me and I only have a bit of time here and there to play).

CES

08-27-2010, 01:49 AM

Crittias

08-27-2010, 07:14 AM

Well, here is what I heard from her:You're correct, you didn't miss anything she said. Honestly, I liked that I had to figure out something that wasn't spelled out during the mission.

Superman's Dead

08-27-2010, 01:19 PM

I like the plot of this game. It feels like playing a movie, and I think it's an interesting alternative to the usual open-world fare.

Also, this game has caused me to yell out, "THE FUCKING IRISH!!!" more than any game in recent history.

Superman's Dead

08-27-2010, 01:53 PM

With all the videogame and mafia movie humor in here, it is apparent to me that the people who made this game really like what they do. At least, that's what I infer.

"Alright, Scoletta. Get in the shower. Would you kindly?"

Inspector Fowler

08-28-2010, 11:50 AM

Fuck me.

Right now I'm trying to

Outrun the mobsters who are trying to steal our dope in chapter 12. I cannot make it even one block before they fucking kill me. Not even one block. Was there a faster car I was supposed to choose? I just picked one of the cars that was in that lot.

I'll keep trying, but fuck me, this is hard.

Narradisall

08-28-2010, 12:14 PM

Adam Blue

08-28-2010, 12:18 PM

Fowler I think your problem is obvious.

Your built in police training is telling you that crime is bad, therefore while you are attempting to play a criminal, your subconscious is making you bungle the attempts in order to preserve the balance of law.

Hehe...that's pretty good.

Though, that does bring up a point. I hate playing as criminals. I want more games where I'm a law enforcer which then forces me to be very careful about my surroundings.

Inspect...you ever feel that way? I was in a similar career for six years but I don't know if that has anything to do with it.

Superman's Dead

08-28-2010, 12:22 PM

New True Crime's coming out. All kinds of opportunities to be a do-gooder supercop.

Adam Blue

08-28-2010, 12:25 PM

New True Crime's coming out. All kinds of opportunities to be a do-gooder supercop.

Unfortunately your cover is with the Triad and you have to do some criminal stuff along the way, so that bad-guy freedom is there. I loved the first two games though, from Luxoflux.

Inspector Fowler

08-28-2010, 12:25 PM

The thing about the real life version is that if you really pay attention to officer safety stuff, it's not very fun. The problem is that everybody knows you're a cop and so you have to be "afraid" of everybody. The guy on the traffic stop could be a militia member who has reached his breaking point. The concerned sister who calls in about her brother? Maybe the brother isn't just depressed, maybe he's a vet with PTSD and when I show up the stress will trigger a violent flashback. The car I stopped for not having a license plate light might have a guy who has 3 felony warrants and doesn't want to go back to prison.

But 99.99% of everything you do ends up being totally normal, which means you live in this constant state of paranoia that is never rewarded...until it is, and then it just feeds the cycle.

It would be really hard to do this well in a video game because so much of the game would have to be absolutely boring routine to make the scary parts truly scary.

I am eating some chicken noodle soup. Then I may try this crazy mission again. I also noticed that whatever car you brought is burned by the time you get out to the cars, so no help there. ;)

Superman's Dead

08-28-2010, 12:27 PM

Demon's Souls: To Protect And Serve

Adam Blue

08-28-2010, 12:30 PM

I meant stuff like as in how you took in criminals in the first True Crime. Non-violent take downs awarded you more points. Shooting awarded you less, even allowing you to go into the negative and not advancing. In criminal games, you can just shoot whoever you want and it has little to no consequence for the rest of the game. True Crime on the other hand had multiple endings as well as tons of bonuses if you were a good cop.

I like having a bit of restriction that really makes me think about how I need to complete a mission.

Inspector Fowler

08-28-2010, 01:49 PM

Yeah, but True Crime's was terrible. If somebody is trying to kill you, nobody gives a fuck if you shoot him. It wanted you to shoot the guns out of the hands of guys trying to grease you. Kind of like SWAT 4, which wanted me to Taser guys with rifles.

Also, I'm on the dock shootout. Fuck those fucking Molotovs. And the fact that I can't throw a fucking molotov back up there, or a grenade. Real nice.

Farsight

08-28-2010, 06:08 PM

Also, I'm on the dock shootout. Fuck those fucking Molotovs. And the fact that I can't throw a fucking molotov back up there, or a grenade. Real nice.

Yes you can. Your guy just throws like a girl with a torn rotator cuff.

I finished the game and sent it back already. I was disappointed... soooo linear, and I won't get into spoilers, but it has one of the worst endings I can remember.

There's a great reference to Mafia 1 though. I'd have been happier if the game had ended there.

BigJonno

08-28-2010, 06:37 PM

I know some people wanted to read a review from someone who really loved the original. Here you go. (http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2010/08/28/wot-i-think-mafia-ii/)

iHap

08-28-2010, 07:30 PM

Has anybody gotten past Chapter 14, the part where you have to get $27k, I do not have the patience to steal cars for bloody 2 hours.

Inspector Fowler

08-28-2010, 07:30 PM

I also hated the ending.

It wasn't even really a cliffhanger. It just didn't make sense. Why does Joe get fucked? Would the Mafia reeeeally allow that much double crossing? Wouldn't they just use you and shoot you right there?

I'm hoping for a better ending via DLC.

I'd like a proper sequel to start in the early 70s and proceed through the heroin and coke eras, like Scarface but with more class.

Also, iHap:

After you kill the guys in the warehouse, it tells you to go up and search Derek's office. There is $22,000 or so in there. Combined with what you probably have from the last couple missions it should put you pretty close to what you need. Try going back there or restarting the chapter if the money is missing, you're sooooo close to the end there.

Inspector Fowler

08-28-2010, 10:37 PM

Having finished it now, here are my thoughts, like a mini-review.

Mafia II is an excellent world, with a populace that seems alive and interested in their surroundings. The city is really the star more than Vito, your cardboard cutout protagonist. Even on my nearly 3 year old computer, the game shines - snowy streets look beautiful, back alleys are disgusting, and the sidewalks are alive with citizens who will comment on your status at the moment - or slip on the ice.

The driving is great...for a while. It's a known fact that 1 out of 10 Empire Bay residents is a cop, and they do not fuck around. Holy shit. Speed, run a light, tap another car, and these bitches will fuck you up but good. It's shocking that there is any crime in the city with this many violent cops on duty. But the cars handle pretty well when you get the hang of it, and the radio adds a lot of atmosphere - I wonder if my dad would have flashbacks to his youth, although I would guess he was trying to impress girls rather than hide bodies.

The gameplay is bi-polar. The shooting is fun. The animations are canned, sure - but it all looks like a crime movie should look. Shotgun blasts throw suckers backwards, and a head shot results in a snapped back neck and a sack of meat falling down. Even bosses can be head-shotted.

But the rest of the game "play" consists of endless driving, and super fun tasks like "clean the urinal", "move these boxes" or "drag this body" (to be fair, you only have to drag one body). Not exactly what I want to spend my virtual time doing.

The biggest failing is the story, though. The voice actors are absolutely superb, and the facial animation is sometimes tremendous (other times it's very flat, leading me to think that these guys have some firing and hiring to do at their studio). But the story is flat and dull - Vito never has any big changes of heart, as he goes from boss to boss, mission to mission. His character never develops - loyal only to his buddy, he never hesitates to pull a trigger on virtually every human in his way. And the few times he tries to show some emotion are overwhelmed by his actual behavior, which consists of him just continuing to do whatever he is told.

While speaking to a friend, I used a somewhat crude metaphor - but given the number of hookers and centerfolds in the game, it's probably an apt one - Mafia II is like screwing a super hot chick who just lays there. You looked forward to it, and your friends might all be impressed when they get a look at her. But while it's still fun, it's only a fraction of the fun you should be having.

Ah well. On a side note, the orchestral score is excellent and I don't regret for a second shelling out the extra $10 for the deluxe version to have a legit copy of it. The soundtrack speaks volumes about a gripping dramatic story that should have happened but didn't.

MalReynolds

08-29-2010, 04:11 AM

Yes you can. Your guy just throws like a girl with a torn rotator cuff.

I finished the game and sent it back already. I was disappointed... soooo linear, and I won't get into spoilers, but it has one of the worst endings I can remember.

There's a great reference to Mafia 1 though. I'd have been happier if the game had ended there.

im pretty sure they are gonna be adding more story with DLC... i dont think thats gonna be the end!

Spigot

08-29-2010, 04:27 PM

JayK47

08-29-2010, 04:30 PM

I wrapped up the game today. Steam clocked me at 14 hours while the game clocked me at 11 hours. So I died so much that I spent 3 hours replaying sections of the game. I am starting to think it was on purpose to extend the length of the game. Considering the effort that went into the atmosphere of the game, the story just seems too short. Everything seemed to happen too soon. We all know a mafia story can't end well, but even so, the end left me feeling irritated at how it all turned out. I wish I had more control over the story. I have been spoiled by all of these RPGs that allow me to make choices.

I got one shotted quite a bit in game. I guess enemies can get head shots on me as well. Not much fun considering this is a checkpoint game.

JayK47

08-29-2010, 04:32 PM

What's the deal with the Story Of Jimmy DLC in regards to the PC version? I noticed that Steam's achievements list a bunch of achievements for the Jimmy DLC but I didn't see if it was actually included or available or TBA...

Yeah, I saw that too. I thought there would be another mode unlocked after I finished the game. Or hell, even free roam. Nothing.

Spigot

08-29-2010, 04:35 PM

Strange...

Dukefrukem

08-31-2010, 05:58 AM

Mafia 2 unlikely to be profitable (http://www.joystiq.com/2010/08/30/mafia-2-unlikely-to-be-profitable-pachter-says/).

6 year development cycle? Wow. What were you doing in 2004?

National Kato

08-31-2010, 07:16 AM

Yeah, I saw that too. I thought there would be another mode unlocked after I finished the game. Or hell, even free roam. Nothing.

You can go back and play individual chapters to do some free roaming, but it's all within the confines of that chapter's given mission. Not that there's much to do in free roam anyway.

Spigot

08-31-2010, 08:03 AM

I heard that the Jimmy DLC was something that opened up the world a bit. I could be horribly mistaken though.

CES

08-31-2010, 11:08 AM

6 year development cycle? Wow. What were you doing in 2004?

Finishing high school and playing Halo 2 till my eyes bled.

A shame that Mafia II didn't quite reach greatness, the setting was extremely well realised and immersive.

crazyD

08-31-2010, 11:32 AM

Speed, run a light, tap another car, and these bitches will fuck you up but good.

Cops don't go after you for running lights or minor accidents. At least, not in the standard difficulty. And they have a terrible field of vision, so it's often easy to get away with speeding violations.

Inspector Fowler

09-01-2010, 03:19 AM

Cops don't go after you for running lights or minor accidents. At least, not in the standard difficulty. And they have a terrible field of vision, so it's often easy to get away with speeding violations.

Yes, yes they do. I ran a red light with no collisions and the speed limiter on and three cop cars were on scene with one ramming my car a good 30 feet.

Their circle of awareness is very small on normal difficulty, but it's still there. You can run a lot of lights with a cop close by, but if they are stopped at the intersection you're running, there is a good chance the sodomy is heading your way.

Farsight

09-01-2010, 05:29 AM

None of that would matter though if the game wasn't at least 50% comprised of dull drives across town.

The driving only exists to lengthen a very short game and to justify an expensive and wasted open world. When I first started playing, I obeyed the traffic rules to avoid "the heat". By the end, I was so bored of driving miss daisy that I was constantly speeding, power-sliding around corners, and ramming everything and everyone I could.just to try to inject some amusement into the tedium.

National Kato

09-01-2010, 07:56 AM

The cops are hit or miss. I drove through intersections at 70 mph past cops on the beat and in cruisers with no trouble. I drove on sidewalks and powerslid into lamp posts and no one cared. Then I'd tap a fender and the cops would call for backup.

But Farsight has the right of it: most of the driving serves no purpose than to extend a very short game.

Inspector Fowler

09-01-2010, 08:24 AM

Here is what I would have done:

Make the player drive the first mission or two.

After that, give them an option at the start of each driving segment.

A - The player continues to drive to and from each place on their own, whenever they want. If you wanna stop and pick up a gun or a new suit or food or whatever, go ahead.

B - The game "drives" for you, but only as long as the dialogue lasts. The dialogue gets presented in a camera view just like it would be in a pure cinematic segment. As soon as they're done talking about the mission, it "warps" to you parking the car.

How fucking hard would that be?

crazyD

09-01-2010, 08:56 AM

Yes, yes they do. I ran a red light with no collisions and the speed limiter on and three cop cars were on scene with one ramming my car a good 30 feet.

I spent the entire game running red lights and driving into incoming traffic, and never once got in trouble for it. Pretty sure you did something else wrong in your example.

Farsight

09-01-2010, 09:21 AM

I was sooo excited every time we were about to go somewhere in someone else's car, only to be crushed by them jumping in the passenger's seat. Who makes someone else drive their car?!? Other than long road trips and when I first bought it, I've never let someone else drive my car. Immersion crushed!

Take Mafia 2. Delete the open world. Delete every driving section that isn't a car chase. Make the car chases more scripted in a less open environment. Have every other mission skip the drives and cut directly to the next meeting/fight. Now take all those resources and use them to add additional missions, maybe let the player make a choice or two about where the story goes, perhaps give your main character a personal life.

Isn't that a better game?

crazyD

09-01-2010, 10:08 AM

I'd say no. The open world was a huge part of the atmosphere in the game, and I personally enjoyed driving through it, even at low speeds.

Hotcod

09-02-2010, 06:30 PM

From what I've played so far I think the games problem is that it was intended to have a number of GTA like side quests you could follow up on your own time between main story missions. From what people are saying here and in reviews if you took the main story and then had that length again split up over other story branches that actually made more use of the city than just the (wonderful) setting then you'd might have one hell of a game. I just think they spent so much time reworking the core game that they simply had to drop the rest of it.

There's a lot of silly stuff gta does that could have fitted well in here so far (might still do some of them I'm not that deep in yet) but stuff like buying houses, dating, running missions for a given gun dealer to get discounts, street racing ext... just anything so that when you are driving around between chapters you could think 'oh i'll just drop off here and do this little misson' or explore a bit and find fun things.

Other than that the game is just stunning looking, driving around the streets at night is one of the most remarkable visuals i've come across in a game. The feeling of place and setting is just wonderful. And in that senses, so far, i've got to agree with the inspectors way of putting it. The games a hot chick who's no where near as good as she could have been in the sack... nice but still disappointing.

National Kato

09-02-2010, 07:36 PM

There's a lot of silly stuff gta does that could have fitted well in here so far (might still do some of them I'm not that deep in yet) but stuff like buying houses, dating, running missions for a given gun dealer to get discounts, street racing ext... just anything so that when you are driving around between chapters you could think 'oh i'll just drop off here and do this little misson' or explore a bit and find fun things.

That's what I thought. Give me a reason to spend time in your city, 2K. You built it up so nicely but there's no reason for me to learn it, and you're telling a story that spans a decade! Why not make me feel something for the 'old streets' and neighborhoods?

Superman's Dead

09-03-2010, 12:46 PM

Yeah. I didn't even know I could rob stores 'til I saw an achievement.

Also, the "My husband/boyfriend/neighbor is beating me" subplot is one of my favorite subplots in mafia stories. You can feel the palpable cloud of doom settling on the man responsible. I fuckin' peeled out of my driveway in my brand new European convertible, hitting trash cans and mailboxes and not giving a fuck.

Dostoyevsky

09-05-2010, 08:31 PM

Up to Chapter 9, playing on hard on the 360 and having a really great time. I occasionally curse the game's bullshit checkpoint system, would like a manual save option, and wish the times when you have free reign of the city were pointed out a bit more, but overall it's a great game with a strong, narrative-driven campaign, which I'm always a sucker for. Don't mind the driving sections at all, in fact, I really like the forced immersion. For some reason I buy into it. And I got a giant stiffy when ...you go to jail. After just watching A Prophet, I've been in a prison film mood and was just thinking the other day how cool it would be if you have to go to the hoosegow in a future GTA game. When I met the mentally deranged guy saying 'all your base are belong to us' in the prison yard this game had me by the balls. :p

Crittias

09-06-2010, 09:58 AM

The folks over at www.mafiascene.com have managed to mod the game to include a Free Ride mode. You can select different times of day/night and weather (although some cars aren't available in snowy weather, due likely to a lack of snow graphics). What's interesting about the mod is it looks like it just unlocked a feature that was included in the original game. There are even hints of some minigames included in Free Ride. I saw two blips on my map: "Capture the Escapee" and "Evade the Hunter." They didn't seem to do anything, but it still suggests that eventually we'll see some more open-world play...for a DLC price, no doubt.

To check out the Free Ride mod, hit up this link: http://mafiascene.com/downloads?did=894

Hotcod

09-06-2010, 03:09 PM

any one fixed the memory leek that means after half an hour of play I can start driving in to cars/building that I can't see?

Tel Prydain

09-06-2010, 05:01 PM

Up to Level 8 on the 360. I like the pre-jail setting a lot more, but the entire jail chapter was a great way to transition the setting.

civil

09-06-2010, 09:23 PM

I abso-fucking-lutely loved this game. From the driving to the gunplay to the story to the focused nature of it. Easily in my Top 10 for the year, if not this generation. I loved it so much I abandoned Velvet Assassin, which I need to finish to I can start my Play It Forward trial run.

Loved this game, so so much.

Inspector Fowler

09-07-2010, 07:47 AM

I am looking forward to the DLC.

I really feel like I shouldn't buy it, because it will give me some stuff that probably should have been in the initial game, and it's kind of rewarding them for screwing me. But it sounds like it will be a nice complement to the tightly focused (if a bit bland) story.

Hotcod

09-07-2010, 08:23 AM

I am enjoying the game other than the bugs and other things. I oddly like the driving and the feeling that breaking the speed limit or running a red light is a risk. Again if they'd added some more stuff that you could do sidelined to the main story like gta tends to do then it would have been really awesome.

civil

09-07-2010, 08:27 AM

Crittias

09-07-2010, 08:35 AM

I wanted to spend more time in this worldBingo. Especially the early, snowy levels. I feel like I'm in the movie, A Christmas Story, when they visit town to see Santa. The vibe is sublime. Could there be more to do? Sure. Does there need to be more to do? Not really.

Civil, as I suspected, you are a genius with impeccable taste.

Hotcod

09-07-2010, 08:57 AM

You know, Hotcod, I thought the same thing at first. But then it occurred to me that I don't want to date girls, deliver pizzas or run a taxi cab stand. I wanted to spend more time in this world, which is more than I could ever say for GTA (except Vice City). With the GTA games, it was about loving the stuff to do, not the environment I did them in. In this game I love the environment, so I wish I would have a longer game to live in this world with. There is a difference between dicking around and having a longer, more focused game. On that level I feel Mafia II is on the same level as the Fable series for me.

I'm not saying it should have done it like gta but after a mission take some time to just wonder around... there are such awesome little places that I think you are likely never to really see other than speeding through them while trying to get away from the police. That's sad. What I want is some reason to go explore these things than just wanting to wonder around. Maybe you could pick up little chains of side stories in random places or something. Maybe after a point you should be able to make a choice to rob a given location on your own time and the like. Things that have less story and acting in them but give you a reason to explore the world.

Trust me that I know what you are getting at. The world is awesome in a way i've never come across before. It's what makes the driving fun to me, it always looks beautiful. Riding around the snowy city at night over the bridge and in to the centre of the city is a memory that will stay with me... but again I just find it hard to wonder around the city when I know nothing will come of it... maybe it's because i can only get 30-45 minutes of play done before I have to restart the game but while there's story content there I need more of an intensive to explore the city.

Hell even just finding non generic stores or locations where you could pick up unique cloths or guns or car upgrades would have been awesome. Just a reason to go out and enjoy the city and be rewarded for exploring it

civil

09-07-2010, 08:59 AM

I think we're in agreement but with a semantics difference.

Man, if they just did Mafia III with the exact same world only a longer story I'd buy it sight unseen.

National Kato

09-07-2010, 09:02 AM

But then it occurred to me that I don't want to date girls, deliver pizzas or run a taxi cab stand. I wanted to spend more time in this world, which is more than I could ever say for GTA (except Vice City). With the GTA games, it was about loving the stuff to do, not the environment I did them in. In this game I love the environment, so I wish I would have a longer game to live in this world with. There is a difference between dicking around and having a longer, more focused game.

I disagree. We didn't need pizza delivery, dating, or taxi cabs in Mafia 2, naturally. But in order to make the city feel more alive, gangland territory wars or protection money collection or any other number of mafioso-like activities would've fit right in and allowed Empire City to breathe. It would've also let the player become Vito, as you would've actually experienced his rise through routine crime, instead of just watching it in montage cutscenes.

What lacks from Mafia 2 is a sense of place. You visit a few locales during the course of the game but there's no reason for those places to stick out or remain memorable. The GTA locales were about environment, most evidently with Liberty City in the last game. With the long campaign, the diversions, and the DLC the city became something with a life of its own and a suite of characters. Mafia 2 just told a story in a time and place and offered nothing more. I enjoyed it for what it was: much like a partially interactive gangster film. But the GTA games - and Fable 2 - created worlds in which one existed, not just participated.

Crittias

09-07-2010, 10:51 AM

Ravenlock

09-07-2010, 02:02 PM

I disagree. We didn't need pizza delivery, dating, or taxi cabs in Mafia 2, naturally. But in order to make the city feel more alive, gangland territory wars or protection money collection or any other number of mafioso-like activities would've fit right in and allowed Empire City to breathe. It would've also let the player become Vito, as you would've actually experienced his rise through routine crime, instead of just watching it in montage cutscenes.

Sounds like Mafia II would've done well to crib from the Godfather game(s). There wasn't a ton to say about those games in terms of unique mechanics, but the extortion sidegame and the ability to recruit a crew to roll around with you as you gained rank and prestige lent a tangible sense of progression to the gameplay above and beyond the missions you were involved in.

Just having a concept of claim or ownership over the various businesses you could go in (and could rob, but only on a one-off basis) might've helped provide some of the "reason to explore" in Mafia II that some people are expressing that it lacked.

Superman's Dead

09-07-2010, 02:11 PM

All of those things would have taken away from the tightly scripted story of the game.

How can you lose all your money or be worried when your house is on fire when you have 4 guys to roll around with and own 8 Jewelry stores and a coal refinery?

Godfather wanted to give you the feeling of heading up a family. GTA 4 wanted you to feel like a sane man who was out to make a buck in a completely insane world (I think). Mafia II wants you to feel like one of the guys who eventually gets made. You aren't Michael Corleone, you're Henry Hill.

I don't know what you could have added to give the experience they wanted. The story can't be too much longer or they'll have to ad either whole new elements to balance or just a bunch of filler. They can't add side-missions or they water down the story and take away the believability.

Generation ABXY

09-07-2010, 02:16 PM

I don't know how well they'd work in the Mafia games, having yet to play either one, but I thought the side quests fit well and were quite enjoyable in the first Godfather game (can't say much for the second - I didn't enjoy it nearly as much, and quit early-on, IIRC).

National Kato

09-07-2010, 02:31 PM

All of those things would have taken away from the tightly scripted story of the game.

The montage of gameplay elements showing you collecting protection money, shaking down business owners, stealing cars, and living the good life would've taken away from the story had we been able to play it?

Tel Prydain

09-07-2010, 02:33 PM

The montage of gameplay elements showing you collecting protection money, shaking down business owners, stealing cars, and living the good life would've taken away from the story had we been able to play it?

I did find it a tad ironic that Veto talked about losing money, cars and women… considering that, so far as I’ve played, there have been no women.

Superman's Dead

09-07-2010, 02:36 PM

The montage of gameplay elements showing you collecting protection money, shaking down business owners, stealing cars, and living the good life would've taken away from the story had we been able to play it?

Yes. Because then they have to justify why can't you do it at will at several points over the story.

Most notably when you lose everything you own when your house is set on fire, and also when you go to jail.

There's a specific story they're trying to tell, and they want control over the character's life. They also want to you to empathize with him, and so do away with the sociopathic tendencies and decisions that open-world games lead to (see: RDR).

National Kato

09-07-2010, 02:44 PM

There's a specific story they're trying to tell, and they want control over the character's life.

I've never disputed that, really. However, it's still a missed opportunity. There's no reason they couldn't have allowed you to do many of those things and then at a certain plot point continued with a more narrow path. All the more reason to feel loss if you'd actually had something to begin with.

Did you actually feel upset when your house burned? Why? You barely spent any time there, since there was nothing to do in the house or in that neighborhood. You didn't have to work hard to gain that house or all that stuff. Instead, you were given it all in leaps and bounds between cutscene montages showing you all the hard work the game was doing on your behalf. I'd rather invest that time myself and then, when it's taken from me, feel the loss.

Superman's Dead

09-07-2010, 02:54 PM

I've never disputed that, really. However, it's still a missed opportunity. There's no reason they couldn't have allowed you to do many of those things and then at a certain plot point continued with a more narrow path. All the more reason to feel loss if you'd actually had something to begin with.

Did you actually feel upset when your house burned? Why? You barely spent any time there, since there was nothing to do in the house or in that neighborhood. You didn't have to work hard to gain that house or all that stuff. Instead, you were given it all in leaps and bounds between cutscene montages showing you all the hard work the game was doing on your behalf. I'd rather invest that time myself and then, when it's taken from me, feel the loss.

They'd have to narrow it down by explaining why all of a sudden Vito could no longer extort money from people or have your crew roll with you or rob banks or whatever, and people would be pissed off. For whatever reason, they wanted him down on his luck for this part of the game.

I'm not saying it was the right move, but it's very clear their focus was on telling a story as opposed to providing a complete open-world experience and I see how their decisions were to back that up.

And yeah, I cared about Vito's house cause I cared about Vito. I fucking hated the Irish fucks, and I was thrilled that he got to go shoot 'em up. I was pissed for him because he had to wear Joe's clothes and he lost his guns. I was wrapped up in the story moreso than the gameplay (which I do enjoy).

That doesn't feel wrong to me.

Farsight

09-07-2010, 06:49 PM

I guess some people just got a lot more involved in the story than I did. I found it to be a comically cliched tale about a fairly boring person. Vito is a caricature, not a character. For me, their decision to remove all choice and freedom to focus on their grand story flops because I didn't care about the story (and the rare times I did, the story let me down, such as when it vomited out the limpest, worst ending I have ever seen to a story-based game).

I'd have gladly given up some story to have greater freedom in gameplay and/or choice in the narrative. The main thing I came away with from Mafia 2 is what I wish the game had been, because what the game actually was... was uninspired.

Hotcod

09-08-2010, 10:50 AM

They'd have to narrow it down by explaining why all of a sudden Vito could no longer extort money from people or have your crew roll with you or rob banks or whatever, and people would be pissed off. For whatever reason, they wanted him down on his luck for this part of the game.

Ya it's not like his left with a garage full of expensive customised sports cars or has in the past dropped off an expensive car for a boat load of cash or can rob stores and dinners...

oh

wait

I just got to the house burning down bit and honestly I couldn't care less, what I was worried about was losing my cars... which it turns out I shouldn't have been... the cars are something that I'd put time in to as the player and as such I had reason to care about them. Vitos charracter is such a blank slate it's clear that he was intended to be a way for the player to project them selfs but any level of choice or open world actions you could take in that recard where cut out but they didn't really have time to rewrite the story.

There are lots of ways to explain why you where down on your luck (I get that they want vito to only do the drug thing because he has no options) such as the Irish mob killed your crew and firebombed the places you are protecting and so on. You then find that no one wants to work with you in that way, you are a liability. So until you can prove your self again you can't get a crew together and the business are more scared of the irish and of you. Doing something like that might have given me a sense of some actual loss. As it is the house buring down means nothing... i can pretty much steal anything I actually need in the game and cash I can come by easy enough by robbing places.

Superman's Dead

09-08-2010, 10:55 AM

Sure, but that would change the outlook on the character. Vito isn't a liability. All the guys still want to work with him.

I'm not saying this game is perfect, but they're trying to give you a mafia movie you can play, not GTA in a mafia world. It's a different goal than what you guys want.

Hotcod

09-08-2010, 11:19 AM

All the guys he knows want to work with him and most of them will be to busy to boot around on his crew, his crew would be unmade random people he picked up from off the street like he used to be. If his had his house torched and his bussines attacked his street creditability would be trashed until he could rebuild it. Given that in the stoyrline he never, ever sets up the job or has the contacts this wouldn't prove a problem. His taken along by people he knows.

Point is that something like that would make more sense than the fact I have a garage that is full of expensive cars that I don't seem to be aware off and magicly follow me around... this IS a game not a movie and as such there is always friction between the narrative and the gameplay and in this case they dumped the gameplay in favour of a narrative that honestly hasn't been compelling enough to make me care about vito.

Like i said vito is a video game player character, his not lifeless or characterless but his enough of a blank slate for the gamer to step in to his shoes... but we are left with little to do outside of the narative when we do so so we are left with no real attachetment to him. Well I'm not at lest.

There is a great bit wonderful city there that is ripe for a level of "rpg" stuff that could level your character and make you care about what he has because you worked to get it. Not only would it make you feel more involved it would actually make you lose something you put time in to... which does not happen at all.

In other words we are meant to care about the loss of vitos house because we are told to (film) not because we as the player had anything invested in it (game)... and since this is a game I'd much rather have seen the second option (which would not screw with the narative any more than the gameplay elements in the game already do) than the first... 'cus if they wanted to make a film they should have made a film not a game.

Don't get me wrong, I do really like the game, but there is just so much more the game could have been that would have made it a classic rather than just good.

Superman's Dead

09-08-2010, 11:29 AM

Those are all valid points.

Maybe if I bought it instead of gameflying it, or played the first game, I'd be more upset. I'm not. =)

Hotcod

09-08-2010, 12:38 PM

Like I said don't get me wrong it's a good game and I'm really enjoying it for what it is it just that it could have been a hell of a lot more given the time they had and the city they put in place :)

JayK47

09-08-2010, 03:09 PM

Well, is the DLC worth $10?

Spigot

09-08-2010, 03:15 PM

I grabbed it anyway, if only to support the devs. I think I might actually get to work on the game itself tonight once the kids go to bed.

Crittias

09-08-2010, 04:17 PM

Well, is the DLC worth $10?It's a bunch of short missions, loosely connected by a story of revenge. Only an intro and outro cutscene, everything else is just text windows describing what the purpose of a particular mission is.

That said, for $10, it's fun. I probably got close to 8 hours out of it so far, and I'll replay some of the better missions. I'm happy I spent the money.

Tel Prydain

09-08-2010, 04:18 PM

It seems less Mafia 2ish and more GTAish. Is that right?

Crittias

09-08-2010, 05:44 PM

It seems less Mafia 2ish and more GTAish. Is that right?Sounds about right.

Shjinta

09-08-2010, 05:49 PM

Well I finished it on my friends xbox(which i'll never do again.. abysmal frame rate...) I really enjoyed the story and was really engaged with the elements within the story. I'm very happy with the story..Gameplay is something else..

JayK47

09-08-2010, 08:17 PM

Well lets compare. $50 for 14 hours vs $10 for 8 hours. Sounds like a decent deal for $10. I'm going to buy it right now.

Purple Santa

09-24-2010, 06:11 PM

I was hoping more were talking about the ending. I read a few didn't like it, how did everyone else feel about the ending?

National Kato

09-24-2010, 06:15 PM

I was hoping more were talking about the ending. I read a few didn't like it, how did everyone else feel about the ending?

I thought it was a suitable ending for a gangster storyline. If anything, while muted, it's likely more realistic than letting Joe stay with Vito, after all the shit he'd done.

Purple Santa

09-24-2010, 06:26 PM

I thought it was a suitable ending for a gangster storyline. If anything, while muted, it's likely more realistic than letting Joe stay with Vito, after all the shit he'd done.

That's how I felt about it. I thought they didn't cop out at the end with a celebration between buddies. That wouldn't of been a proper ending to me. Joe to me had to die since he fucked Mr. Wu's members so badly, he would have to pay for that. Vito just had that one favor which saved his life. I think his life in the family (if he's allowed to stay) will be awful. I imagine he does all kinds of shit jobs and the idea of him becoming a Capo or higher rank within the family.

Inspector Fowler

09-25-2010, 09:04 AM

Purple Santa

09-25-2010, 10:50 PM

I think a more realistic ending would have been to:

Simply kill them both. Organized crime talks about honor and a code of silence but the reality is that you're only a certain type of useful before you're expendable.

Whether it's ratting you out for a specific reason or killing you or letting you die, it happens all the time.

They should have walked out there, the old Don type should have said, "Vito, consider your honor redeemed." BAM. Joe starts screaming, BAM.

Credits roll as the "family" gets back in their cars and drives off.

However this is the fictional telling of organized crime, the Mafia. What would happen in real life might be different but within the story of the game, it does make sense for Vito to live. Vito saved the old man's life. According to the lore of Mafia fiction, that kind of loyalty is repaid. Vito had that one favor. I see it as one time deal. Vito fucks up again he's sleeping next to Joe in the river. That is why I believe if the story were to go on or imagine what would play out is Vito being part of the family however more of a leper. He is there because he had one "don't kill me" card and he had it played for him. Or maybe the old man sent him packing with some money to another city to begin all over again. That's the fun about speculating about the end. But killing off Vito goes against the story telling rules for Mafia fiction.

Inspector Fowler

09-26-2010, 12:24 AM

Well, whatever the results...I still hope they continue the series. I still want to see the 70s and 80s of organized crime, where the traditional families start to fall apart during the era of heroine and coke. They obviously hinted at that in Mafia II but I want to see that whole thing fleshed out better.

Purple Santa

09-26-2010, 06:51 AM

muddi900

10-03-2010, 01:57 PM

So thanks to the generosity of a certain COG user (http://www.colonyofgamers.com/cogforums/showthread.php?t=19944), I have this game on Steam. I have to say, its not very good. The 6 year development time really shows in the form of outdated design. Some people here said how it felt like a Mafia crime-drama and it does not. It feels like a GTA-clone...from 8 years ago. The story-driven aspect would have been great if the story was halfway interesting. Does it get better?

Kelegacy

10-03-2010, 05:46 PM

I don't know, I loved the title. It isn't GTA, it's a story-based game with an open world. Not a sandbox, just a wide open city. I thought it was superb.

Tel Prydain

10-03-2010, 06:21 PM

I'm with Kel. Not GotY, but a solid game that I really enjoyed. I'll grant that the early missions are slow, but things do heat up.

Inspector Fowler

10-03-2010, 06:26 PM

Game Informer (I know, I know) had a good editorial about the "second refrigerator" this month. The basic thought was that too many games have too much to do, and the resultant loss of focus on the story results in a lack of drive to finish the game.

I'm definitely in that boat. While I found Red Dead Redemption's story very interesting (it was the game they cited as having the second refrigerator), I still haven't finished it because the big open world has too much stuff. Too many options, extra quests, and not enough focus on the story. Shouldn't this guy get up every fucking morning with a burning hard-on to get the people who kidnapped his family? If the game doesn't care, I kind of don't either.

Mafia II is the opposite. It takes what it has and lays it right down in front of you. If that doesn't interest you, the game isn't really concerned.

Mafia II isn't The Godfather or The Departed, and the story has some flaws. But I still like it for having a connected narrative that doesn't try to waste my (limited) gaming time with a bunch of side stuff.

muddi900

10-03-2010, 11:34 PM

I don't know, I loved the title. It isn't GTA, it's a story-based game with an open world. Not a sandbox, just a wide open city. I thought it was superb.

I went into it knowing that well enough. But it was worse than expected. The gameplay is filled with tedium. 90% of my game has been driving around. You might say the same thing about GTA, but there the cars don't feel like metal blocks on leaf springs. I don't know if they were shooting for authenticity, they made their core mechanic boring and tedious. Bad design.

Again, there is nothing wrong with being a story-driven game, but your story has to be better than the regular video-game "facilitation for the next round of guys to to shoot" story, which is what the Mafia 2 story is.

Mafia II isn't The Godfather or The Departed, and the story has some flaws. But I still like it for having a connected narrative that doesn't try to waste my (limited) gaming time with a bunch of side stuff.

That is actually fun...:D