Faulty Ram?

[CappinCanuck]

Hey folks, I need some gamer pc tech advice.

I've been having some problems with S(tar)C(raft)2. Lots of crashes caused by graphic asset corruptions -- models and textures. Every load screen, when these textures/models are cached I get corruptions. So, this immediately pointed me to the RAM.

Ran Memtest, lots of errors. Issue solved, right? Well, this is where I need some advice.

I get no lockups, CTDs, BSODs with any other software/games. In fact, even with SC2 I only crash in the campaign and not in multiplayer, custom games, challenges or anything else related to the game. That's strange right? I'm starting to think the game (read: bug) is more at fault than my memory.

I ask because even if the ram is faulty, if it's working 100% without issues, I really don't want to bother replacing it until it actually causes issues.

[Codicier]

I read it as "faculty ram" and thought you wanted some kind of school goat...

I am so sorry.

[CappinCanuck]

I read it as "faculty ram" and thought you wanted some kind of school goat...

I am so sorry.

You and I are so different... I'd think of a ram for hitting faculty, professors, teachers and the like.

But, I also need real advice :P It's quite a drive to my nearest pc hobby store so I'd have to do it tomorrow :/

[Codicier]

You and I are so different... I'd think of a ram for hitting faculty, professors, teachers and the like.

But, I also need real advice :P It's quite a drive to my nearest pc hobby store so I'd have to do it tomorrow :/

Clanner mentioned you were having issues when I talked to him on Friday. Maybe something in here might help?

http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/13501356

Maybe the over-heating thing they mention? If you haven't already added the lines they list there to your variables.txt file that is.

[CappinCanuck]

Clanner mentioned you were having issues when I talked to him on Friday. Maybe something in here might help?

http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/13501356

Maybe the over-heating thing they mention? If you haven't already added the lines they list there to your variables.txt file that is.

Nah, i've done all those things to try and fix it. I'm just trying to figure out, from someone with more experience with bad RAM, whether that sounds like bad ram or bad programming heh.

[nabokovfan87]

Since you say image corruption it sounds like video card is on the verge of melting. Be sure to check that.

I highly doubt it is the ram, but it very well could be. Replace and see, Errors means you need some new stuff. Stick to corsair (from my experience), and if you are going cheap avoid kingston/crucial.

[Farsight]

Assuming your MemTest is up to date, I'd trust it. Memory errors will only show themselves in specific, high-bandwidth situations. It's totally normal for you to only see it now and then. It's probably one stick that's bad, so it'll also only show up when that stick gets heavy use.

If you're overclocking at all, you should first try reducing your overclock. If not, you might still want to see if relaxing the timings/speed of your RAM/CPU/MB eliminates the problem. Often RAM is sold at incorrect or overclocked timings, meaning that even default settings can fail stress tests (like memtest or new games). Tune your system down a great deal (like 25%) and if the problem disappears, start tuning it back up until the problem returns.

[PathMaster]

Seems weird that you only get issues in SC2, not any other games. I don't think SC2 stresses cards that much. You could try and find a card stress test. I am trying to remember where I saw one of those.

I too doubt that your RAM is at fault. Perhaps playing with some settings will help, although it sounds like you did that already.

[CappinCanuck]

Thx for the help guys, it was the ram oddly enough. I think it was a combo of some faulty ram (1 stick) and some terrible memory optimization and handling on SC2s part. Lots of people are having problems with corrupted installs and have perfectly good ram.


Since you say image corruption it sounds like video card is on the verge of melting. Be sure to check that.

I highly doubt it is the ram, but it very well could be. Replace and see, Errors means you need some new stuff. Stick to corsair (from my experience), and if you are going cheap avoid kingston/crucial.

Nah, not image corruption but graphic asset corruptions. The actual graphic files are becoming corrupted when they're cached into the memory so it results in a crash. This would explain my prevalence for crashing during loading screens.

Assuming your MemTest is up to date, I'd trust it. Memory errors will only show themselves in specific, high-bandwidth situations. It's totally normal for you to only see it now and then. It's probably one stick that's bad, so it'll also only show up when that stick gets heavy use.

If you're overclocking at all, you should first try reducing your overclock. If not, you might still want to see if relaxing the timings/speed of your RAM/CPU/MB eliminates the problem. Often RAM is sold at incorrect or overclocked timings, meaning that even default settings can fail stress tests (like memtest or new games). Tune your system down a great deal (like 25%) and if the problem disappears, start tuning it back up until the problem returns.

Thx for the info Farsight. I did try different timings and voltages, my board's default mem voltage was far below the manufacturer specs but they weren't at the timings they should have been anyway so it evened out. I was getting hundreds and hundreds of errors on one stick so it was pretty much toast.

Seems weird that you only get issues in SC2, not any other games. I don't think SC2 stresses cards that much. You could try and find a card stress test. I am trying to remember where I saw one of those.

I too doubt that your RAM is at fault. Perhaps playing with some settings will help, although it sounds like you did that already.

I had the same thought of you, why only SC2? And only one part of it. I think it's just some issues with the game exposed my faulty ram. That's not to say that the game should be constantly corrupting and requiring a reinstall every crash heh. Something's funky :)




I did have one further question if someone could indulge me. I got my new pair, working nicely, SC2 is running smoothly and all. I ran a memtest on all the sticks at once (all unused ram) by running multiple memtests (3x) as it instructed. So very much a stress test. I got a few errors here and there. I ran a single memtest and it didn't error at all for the entire 100% (1 stick), but that's just part of my ram. Is this normal for stress situations to perhaps cause errors? Or should I go ahead and test them all one by one because there's an issue?

[Pale Ale]

Or should I go ahead and test them all one by one because there's an issue?

Yes.


I had a RAM stick go bad the beginning of last year. So after shoving the computer geeks in the room with and yelling at them till I got an answer. A RAM test with all the sticks can give or not give the right answer and the technobabble they backed this up was convincing enough. (Though I still regret not beating on them with a stick.)

It was far easier to test both of my sticks one at a time. The bad one started popping errors almost immediately.

[Farsight]

If the RAM is working properly, and your system settings (RAM, CPU and Motherboard) are correct, you really shouldn't get any errors.

Most people don't need or expect that level of stability. The occasional error in high-stress situations won't be all that problematic; odds are the system will either self-correct or the error will be in non-critical data (like a corrupt pixel in a game). Eventually the system will crash, but if it takes 100 hours of use, a lot of people will never see it.

Personally, I go by real-world testing. If my system can handle the worst situations I'll be throwing at it in daily use, it's good to go. YMMV.

[nabokovfan87]

Nah, not image corruption but graphic asset corruptions. The actual graphic files are becoming corrupted when they're cached into the memory so it results in a crash. This would explain my prevalence for crashing during loading screens.

I thought I read it wrong at first, seeing this, what is the difference between image corruption and graphic corrruption. I was thinking of the one you describe here, where stuff from the game comes in with black squares, lines, etc.



I had the same thought of you, why only SC2? And only one part of it. I think it's just some issues with the game exposed my faulty ram. That's not to say that the game should be constantly corrupting and requiring a reinstall every crash heh. Something's funky :)

Maybe SC/SC2 peg the ram more then other games. Perhaps there is a lot of textures, and to get around having loading issues they toss them all in the ram (GTA IV did this)? Does it have a very high ram requirement?

I did have one further question if someone could indulge me. I got my new pair, working nicely, SC2 is running smoothly and all. I ran a memtest on all the sticks at once (all unused ram) by running multiple memtests (3x) as it instructed. So very much a stress test. I got a few errors here and there. I ran a single memtest and it didn't error at all for the entire 100% (1 stick), but that's just part of my ram. Is this normal for stress situations to perhaps cause errors? Or should I go ahead and test them all one by one because there's an issue?

No, you should have no errors. Test the sticks 1 by one to find out which. As farsight says, it could be timings are too tight. Try knocking them back to stock for the memtest, but you should have 0 errors. What kind of ram did you get?

[PathMaster]

Yeah, zero errors, each stick alone should be run for a few tests. In my experience, the bad stick will give errors almost immediately. Only once did I have errors pop up near the end of a test. While a few errors may seem insignificant, it can screw your system up.

I remember on PC I worked on I think had three errors near the end of the test. Those few errors would not allow me to run the PC at all.

[CappinCanuck]

I thought I read it wrong at first, seeing this, what is the difference between image corruption and graphic corrruption. I was thinking of the one you describe here, where stuff from the game comes in with black squares, lines, etc.



No, I think what you're describing is artifacting which can be caused by all sorts of things including an overheating GPU. What I'm describing is an actual corruption of the files. Which could happen from a bad installation and the actual files are corrupted or in this case faulty memory corrupting the "image" of those files in your cache. Although, from what I know, the latter can cause corruption of the files as well.

You know how levels load before playing a game? All the level assets, or "parts," are cached onto your memory during the load screen. Now if it saves the texture for your typical SC2 terran marine to a faulty address on your ram, for example, that graphic asset will be corrupted. So when it tries to access that texture, like when you build a marine, you get any number of problems but likely a crash.

Yeah, zero errors, each stick alone should be run for a few tests. In my experience, the bad stick will give errors almost immediately. Only once did I have errors pop up near the end of a test. While a few errors may seem insignificant, it can screw your system up.

I remember on PC I worked on I think had three errors near the end of the test. Those few errors would not allow me to run the PC at all.\

Drat. I drove an hour each way to pick these up... guess I'll be going back :(

[nabokovfan87]

Ran this last night:

http://mejuba.com/Files/137/83b4f145-c355-4bea-8941-eb62e7a904a3.jpg

Should be like that when you are done, 0 errors, no ecc errors, just a number under pass.

[CappinCanuck]

Thx for posting the pic. I was actually running a windows app called Memtest but I did some looking around and saw that most people are referring to memtest86, not the one I grabbed. Windows always makes things a bit more unstable :D I ran memtest86 a couple of times with 0 errors so I think it's cool. I thought it was a bit weird with the windows app because it found different #'s of errors and in different spots each time.

Remember, it's always better in BIOS.

[nabokovfan87]

Yeah, it might be because the ram spots were being accessed and thaat caused the errors. As long as memtest (which we all mean memtest86) comes up clean your fine.