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Satertek
07-28-2010, 06:20 PM
Just thought I'd post my new build here before I click buy to see if anyone has any comments.

http://secure.newegg.com/WishList/PublicWishDetail.aspx?WishListNumber=18287687 (PSU I've already got in a Corsair 550W)

I'm most iffy about the motherboard (think that this (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128438) might be better), and whether I should stick with that X3 or spend $60 more for the X4 955. I'm not entirely convinced I'd make use of that 4th core, as every gaming benchmark I've seen levels out after the 3rd core is added. (Plus with the X3 I've still got small chance of unlocking the 4th core anyway)

(Should I consider Intel? I haven't built a system with an Intel CPU in over 10 years, always pretty much ignored them as they've already been more expensive from a price/performance standpoint)

Anyway, I appreciate any comments.

(The Natural Selection 2 alpha combined with sub-par Starcraft 2 performance is what got me started on this. My current system is also around 5 years old with a Opteron X2 2.6GHz/Nvidia 7900GS...I think it's time.)

Budget is flexible but I'm most comfortable under $800 or $900, as any more really just seems excessive.

nabokovfan87
07-29-2010, 10:52 AM
can't view a secure.newegg link. It is username based. You have to take a screenshot or make it public.

The GB mobo's, I wouldn't recommend. I have one, the 790GX-UD3H version, and if you look at any other board and compare it to GB, you will see that the space between the ram slots and the cpu socket is one capacitor width closer, so it makes non-stock cooling options kind of tricky (also not helped by the way AMD coolers mount). So, I wouldn't recommend them. The bios is kind of wierd as well, just a pain to update it and do things easily.

As far as CPU is concerned stick with the 955 or better. I would avoid unlocking just to avoid the issues associated with that. Keep in mind there is a chipset/cpu revision due to be out very soon.

http://www.pcper.com/article.php?aid=961&type=expert
http://www.digitimes.com/news/a20100727PD216.html


As far as intel, if you are deciding, best thing to do is build one (not buy parts and build but I mean research the parts you would select), and compare them for your budget. I would choose a 1366 socket to allow for some type of forwards upgrade options, but they are coming out with a brand new socket design next year.

I was pretty much in the same boat, 5 year old machine, etc. and built an amd 965 setup. From that I would avoid GB mobos and GB in general, antec cases and ones with specific knobs and so forth for speed control (unless they allow you to upgrade them, like the new nzxt phantom case), cooler master ones are good, antec truepower new or corsair HX (not TX) psu's are great, and get 1333 ram (up to 1.6v).

Satertek
07-29-2010, 12:26 PM
can't view a secure.newegg link. It is based. You have to take a screensho public.

Works fine for everyone I've sent it to and works now on my phone so I'm not sure what the problem is.

For the CPU, my thinking is its a waste to get a quad or x6 when I don't have anything to utilize it. I'll be over clocking it regardless whether or not unlock I the core so it'll end up being just as fast or faster (due to less heat from only 3 cores active)

I can always pop in an x6 chip when games come out that actually use them.

nabokovfan87
07-29-2010, 12:53 PM
Works fine for everyone I've sent it to and works now on my phone so I'm not sure what the problem is.

What do you know, there is an exception to every rule, typically it tells you to log-in and then tells you it isn't associated w/ that username.

For the CPU, my thinking is its a waste to get a quad or x6 when I don't have anything to utilize it. I'll be over clocking it regardless whether or not unlock I the core so it'll end up being just as fast or faster (due to less heat from only 3 cores active)

I can always pop in an x6 chip when games come out that actually use them.

I really think the opposite, getting an x2 or x3 is a waste, you want something that is a set of two (so 2, 4, 6, 8, 16, etc.) just so that things work simpler. Meaning if you have 4 threads or 8 threads or what not and you have 10 things in the queue, on a tri-core you would have 3, 3, 3, and then 1 being processed, and on a 2 or 4 setup it would be 2-2-2-2-2 or 4-4-2 respectively. On a 6 core it is 6-4, which is much faster, but they don't operate as fast as the x6 chips out right now.

I would build an x4, get the advantages in the app/os side of that and not worry about the gaming side. It is much more useful for applications then it is for actual gaming performance (look at crysis benchmarks for instance). It has crushed things when I go to edit videos now, from an hour down to aroun 10 minutes, and as you said, the very nice thing is that you will have the ability to go to 6 when they release better/faster ones.

So, if all you do is gaming, get an x4 because of the OS side of things, and just because of the future compatability and so forth on the Phenom 2 140w socket side of things, avoid x3 because it just ends up with odd thread counts, and one cpu working instead of all creating max efficiency.

Now that I can look at the actual list now (stupid me), swap the x3 for a 955/965, the 460 is great because you chose the 1gb version, a 5850/70 would be the other option to look into or SLI a 460. The h50 is good, just keep in mind it works much better with that 2nd fan on the RAD. The ram is where things get tricky. Switch to 1333 ram, for best timings (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820145284) that is about it on the AMD side of things, beware of ocz and kingston intel models they have been found to not even boot up on AMD machines.

other options w/ less GB would be:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820145299

Like I said prior, avoid antec's cases. Their p-series stuff was great, but I really hate my antec 1200, and wish I would have gone elsewhere. The new NZXT case (http://pcper.com/article.php?aid=966)it cool, here is more on it, as well as the corsair stuff or this:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811119230

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811119232

My choice for Mobo would be:

890GX:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813130269
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131633
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813186198

[if you want full ATX msi, go with fx chipset or no onboard video below]

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813130275

890FX:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131655
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813130274

Satertek
07-29-2010, 04:51 PM
Found the article I remembered: http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/cpus/2010/07/05/how-many-cpu-cores-do-games-need/5

I just don't see any reason to get more than 3.

I would build an x4, get the advantages in the app/os side of that and not worry about the gaming side. It is much more useful for applications then it is for actual gaming performance

This really doesn't apply to me at all because I'm only concerned about the gaming side. I use my wimpy 1.6GHz single-core notebook all the time and it feels plenty fast enough for applications.

I also don't understand your 'odd thread count' argument. It doesn't matter what core a process runs on, each separate process with run on whatever resources are currently available. You do realize that everyone used an odd number of cores in processors up until only a few years ago right? ;)


For the case, I think I'm going with this one (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811119216&cm_re=CM_690_II-_-11-119-216-_-Product) now. After reading some reviews with close up shots, it looks solid.

Still debating the motherboard. (Edit: So far still with the Gigabyte GA-890XA-UD3. Can't find another that has USB3, SATA 6Gb and top notch stability)


Thanks for the RAM tip. I'm still living in 2.5-3-3-7 world. Looks like it's double the price for both 7-7-7-20 and 1600. Will probably go with 7-7-7-20/1300.

This looks like the ram to go for. 7-8-7-20 and 1600MHz. And only $100. Am I reading this right?
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820145285

nabokovfan87
07-30-2010, 07:57 AM
Found the article I remembered: http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/cpus/2010/07/05/how-many-cpu-cores-do-games-need/5

I just don't see any reason to get more than 3.

This really doesn't apply to me at all because I'm only concerned about the gaming side. I use my wimpy 1.6GHz single-core notebook all the time and it feels plenty fast enough for applications.

I also don't understand your 'odd thread count' argument. It doesn't matter what core a process runs on, each separate process with run on whatever resources are currently available. You do realize that everyone used an odd number of cores in processors up until only a few years ago right? ;)

Keep in mind how long you had your last PC, you will likely wan't this to last for a while as well. Get the beefiest thing you can. With that aside, the thread argument might or might not even matter, some apps might not even have threads in pairs or so forth. When I was typing it I was debating whether or not even to do so, but my point was:

when processing, lets say 10 threads

2 cores: 2-2-2-2-2 (5 cycles to get through 10 threads)
3 cores: 3-3-3-1 (4 cycles to get through 10 threads)
4 cores: 4-4-2 (3 cycles to get through 10 threads)
6 cores: 6-4 (2 cycles to get through 10 threads)
8 cores: 8-2 (2 cycles to get through 10 threads)
12 cores: 12 (1 cycle to get through 10 threads)

Essentially the best cpu is the one where you are using it rather then having it sit there and gets the job done in the shortest amount of time. As far as games that take advantage of multi-coreness it would be something like a strategy game or something with physics where it needs number crunching to actually do it.

So in the benchmark it would appear to be a very single threaded (perhaps dual) application, meaning it only processes one thing at a time then does the next one. That is on the cpu side, not gpu where everything is parallel processing, but it isn't a good benchmark if you run everything on single threaded stuff and use that as a base for the multi-core architecture.

You say that you only care about gaming, but what if crysis 2 or metro 2044 actually uses the quad core/multi-core to its advantage. You never know what the future holds, the base right now is quad core, so I would suggest starting there.




Still debating the motherboard. (Edit: So far still with the Gigabyte GA-890XA-UD3. Can't find another that has USB3, SATA 6Gb and top notch stability)

MSI 890FX does, most mobos have a regular and then a usb3/sata6g version. Most of the ones I provided are sata6g/usb3 versions. Like I said before, I own a GB mobo and I would seriously warn you not to get it.


This looks like the ram to go for. 7-8-7-20 and 1600MHz. And only $100. Am I reading this right?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820145285

Yes, but stick with 1333, you get no benefit, only issues by getting 1600. None of the cpus support that speed so it is essentially wasted. Look for some solid gskill or corsair 1333 ram at either 8-8-8-24 or 7-7-7-21 (or 20)

Satertek
07-30-2010, 03:02 PM
MSI 890FX does, most mobos have a regular and then a usb3/sata6g version. Most of the ones I provided are sata6g/usb3 versions. Like I said before, I own a GB mobo and I would seriously warn you not to get it.

Yea but for the MSI it's either 2x the price or Micro ATX.

What GB motherboard do you have? Everything I've read about them has been great except for a few bios issues with X6 processors (which are supposed to be fixed on the 890 versions)


You say that you only care about gaming, but what if crysis 2 or metro 2044 actually uses the quad core/multi-core to its advantage. You never know what the future holds, the base right now is quad core, so I would suggest starting there.

That's exactly right. I don't. It might be years before they are able to efficiently use multiple CPU cores in gaming, which is why the smartest thing to do is to go with what is useful for me right now, and since the AM3 platform is very new, it will be much more likely I'll be able to pick up a better CPU when I actually find I need it.

(I do appreciate this argument though, has really gotten me to weigh all the options)

nabokovfan87
07-30-2010, 04:46 PM
Yea but for the MSI it's either 2x the price or Micro ATX.

What GB motherboard do you have? Everything I've read about them has been great except for a few bios issues with X6 processors (which are supposed to be fixed on the 890 versions)

I have the MA790GX-UD3H, which is the old version of the exact same board you are looking at. So, apart from the chip on the board, it is identical. Like I said before, bios is clunky as hell, trying to update it took about a week to figure out, and usb drives and stuff were being read as a floppy, just dumb shit. I cannot get it to boot to a USB device, and the voltage settings are messed up (was stock 1.5 and is now stock 1.6 for no reason whatsoever), when I tried to oc my 965 to 3.8 on an H50, it just craps out, the ram isn't read properly (both sets I purchased) so I had to spend a month emailing corsair support to find out which settings to set and so forth.

Need I go on? Let me put it this way, I would tell you to buy an asus board instead, and I hate them almost as much as microsoft and infinity ward.

That's exactly right. I don't. It might be years before they are able to efficiently use multiple CPU cores in gaming, which is why the smartest thing to do is to go with what is useful for me right now, and since the AM3 platform is very new, it will be much more likely I'll be able to pick up a better CPU when I actually find I need it.

(I do appreciate this argument though, has really gotten me to weigh all the options)

I understand this logic. Considering you will end up with something better in the long run, then it makes a lot of sense. Just beware, word on the street is there will be an AM3+ and not just AM3 cpus in 2011. I'm sure you could find a nice x4 or something when the new stuff comes out, I know I will have mine to sell (or shove in another case). Just be sure to get a Phenom II x3/x2 instead of a Phenom or Athlon, L3 cache and most current revision is your friend.

So, to end off the motheboard, in all seriousness, this is what I would select (would be nice to have more PCI-E x1 slots or a x4 one):

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813130275

Just remember there is no Onboard at all, so you will need a spare vid card.

The only other thing to consider is SLI/Crossfire, in which case you should get the 890FX boards (from msi or asus) to avoid the x8/x8 and get fullspeed x16/x16.

Also remember that pci-e 3.0 isn't far off as well as amd's chipset refresh, so wait for that (the refresh), but if you must build now then choose one of those.

Satertek
07-30-2010, 11:06 PM
You sold me on that MSI 870A, looks pretty good. Especially that COM port :D

And switched to G.skill Ripjaws (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231276&cm_re=gskill_ripjaws-_-20-231-276-_-Product) RAM.

Making my (hopefully) final list this (http://secure.newegg.com/WishList/PublicWishDetail.aspx?WishListNumber=18287687).

Thanks again for all the help nabokovfan87

nabokovfan87
07-30-2010, 11:24 PM
Apologize for this, one minor detail, swap the graphics for one by EVGA, they offer lifetime warranty and have an upgrade program.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130568&cm_re=evga_460_1gb-_-14-130-568-_-Product

Coincidently, it is also a higher OC then the one you chose.

No worries on the help man, I enjoy it, be sure to let me know how things turn out.

Satertek
07-31-2010, 12:01 AM
Yea I debated it, as my past 3 cards have all been eVGA, but I really hate those blower fans, and the Step Up program is pretty useless when limited to 3 months.

nabokovfan87
07-31-2010, 12:30 PM
Yea I debated it, as my past 3 cards have all been eVGA, but I really hate those blower fans, and the Step Up program is pretty useless when limited to 3 months.

I thought it was whenever. Cool, good to know.

Satertek
08-06-2010, 06:59 PM
:>

http://imgur.com/TjO2Y.png (http://imgur.com/TjO2Y.png)

Can't wait to see how high I can get it.

Will edit post with some case pics when I get around to uploading them from my phone.

nabokovfan87
08-06-2010, 08:23 PM
Yay, what is with the go thing, never seen those before.

Satertek
08-06-2010, 09:12 PM
Yay, what is with the go thing, never seen those before.

It's just Prime 95 with an interface that makes more sense for stress testing.

Edit: Brought the system into work to tweak my overclock throughout the day, so far I've got:

http://imgur.com/b3pvY.png

Edit2:

Finally got around to putting up pictures.

First time I actually organized and tied up all the cables inside, looks pretty sweet.

Picasa Web Albums - Brian - New Computer (http://picasaweb.google.com/BIrelan/NewComputer?feat=directlink)

(Also first time taking a bunch of pictures with my Galaxy S, most of them turned out pretty well.)

http://lh4.ggpht.com/_qTL17_5xPRc/TGbj-ZjcBjI/AAAAAAAAAe8/eLZEaUREz2U/s800/2010-08-14%2013.15.05.jpg