Another Hot Russian Spy

[benson]

Did you guys see this (http://gawker.com/5597722/meet-anna-fermanova-americas-sexy-new-russian-spy)?

[Generation ABXY]

Alright, new plan: I say we round up all the women named Anna, sort them by hotness, and start filing charges from there.

Hot or Not and our good ol' Alphabet Soup working together... it's the America I've always dreamed of.

[civil]

I fucking hope Russia takes over our country and we're run by an army of these women.

[Krispy]

I'm okay with this.

[BigJonno]

There was another story on that site mentioning that the other hot Russian spy was entertaining a porno deal. I hope they both take it up. Together.

[Siraris]

The other one was 1000x hotter.

[Krispy]

The other one was 1000x hotter.

I had to recompare them to make sure I wasn't looking at the wrong women. You have odd standards.

[Drayven]

I don't have time to look, can someone post up some russian spy comparisons because I remember the other one being hotter too

[National Kato]

Physical attractiveness and charisma are important qualities in the espionage trade. You're less likely to share secrets with an obese, acne-ridden boor.

[Generation ABXY]

I'm with Drayven and Siraris. Anyway...

http://img828.imageshack.us/img828/1803/4cdc944e67bc403cba59ec6.jpg

[Zanzibar]

I don't know why, but this reminds me of my favorite line from The X-Files (even though it was part of the worst episode ever):

Jade Blue Afterglow gets arrested, held in local detectives' office. Mulder and Scully arrive to question her.

Mulder: 'Has she been read her rights?'

Sargeant: 'About five hundred times.'

http://lotgk.files.wordpress.com/2008/01/jadeblueafterglow.jpg

[TheFlyingOrc]

Winner first girl.

[Siraris]

I had to recompare them to make sure I wasn't looking at the wrong women. You have odd standards.

If you like unattractive women, then I'd agree, I have strange standards.

[RandoM51]

What better way to get confidential info out of men than hot women? Hot food?

[civil]

Both I would swallow in my lovemaking tidal wave.

But I agree with Siraris, the first one gives me a bigger boner. A Super Boner, if you will.

[Savok]

I say we get one of these chicks to play Black Widow in the Avengers film, they have the real world knowledge.

Still, I support a new sexy cold war.

[Siraris]

Both I would swallow in my lovemaking tidal wave.

But I agree with Siraris, the first one gives me a bigger boner. A Super Boner, if you will.

A gift (http://globalgrind.com/channel/news/content/1673840/anna-chapman-russian-spy-takes-it-all-off-photos/) for you, mon frere. An NSFW one at that.

[civil]

How pitiful is it that I've already seen those?

Probably not as pitiful as knowing there's an even saucier NSFW (http://theblemish.com/2010/07/russian-spy-anna-chapman-is-topless-sort-of/anna-chapman-topless-2/) one.

She is soooooo hot.

[a fat lunchlady]

anyone who wouldn't go with that blond (the new one) is f'n ridiculous.

edit - my new plan is to go out here in DC with a file folder that says "top secret". first stop, Russia House in Dupont Circle.

[TheFlyingOrc]

anyone who wouldn't go with that blond (the new one) is f'n ridiculous.

I feel like I could do better on any given college campus.

Also I am married.

[civil]

anyone who wouldn't go with that blond (the new one) is f'n ridiculous.
:: begins to type out rebuttal ::

"Dear a fat..."

:: looks at PS3 name ::

Fuck it.

[Siraris]

How pitiful is it that I've already seen those?

Probably not as pitiful as knowing there's an even saucier NSFW (http://theblemish.com/2010/07/russian-spy-anna-chapman-is-topless-sort-of/anna-chapman-topless-2/) one.

She is soooooo hot.

Source me NOW

Edit: Nevermind, I found them :D

[a fat lunchlady]

I feel like I could do better on any given college campus.

Yeah obviously there are hotter women out there, but it's the point that these two women are spies. That makes them hotter and it's a cold fact any guy here would f**k any one of them, it's just the comparison.

Civil, Xbox=hot blond, ps3=hot brunette

[Siraris]

The craziest thing about all of this, to me, is how light hearted people are taking it. These people are spies, and they're being offered porn contracts? This isn't some actors mistress, we're talking international espionage here.

[TheFlyingOrc]

The craziest thing about all of this, to me, is how light hearted people are taking it. These people are spies, and they're being offered porn contracts? This isn't some actors mistress, we're talking international espionage here.

PERHAPS porn producers are unscrupulous bastards willing to use people to their own ends?

Nah, couldn't be.

[a fat lunchlady]

The craziest thing about all of this, to me, is how light hearted people are taking it. These people are spies, and they're being offered porn contracts? This isn't some actors mistress, we're talking international espionage here.

I'd say that has everything to do with our culture. We value physical attractiveness pretty highly around here. If our hot American spies were discovered in Russia I really doubt it would be taken so lightheartedly over there.

If these women were ugly as hell, our society would be way more pissed.

[National Kato]

I'd say that has everything to do with our culture. We value physical attractiveness pretty highly around here. If our hot American spies were discovered in Russia I really doubt it would be taken so lightheartedly.

Have you ever watched Russian television? They value physical attractiveness just like any country with a warm-blooded male population.

[Adam Blue]

Have you ever watched Russian television? They value physical attractiveness just like any country with a warm-blooded male population.

I'll even say the United States is way tamer than other countries.

[a fat lunchlady]

Have you ever watched Russian television? They value physical attractiveness just like any country with a warm-blooded male population.

No I haven't and I'm sure that's absolutely possible, but it doesn't change the fact that the way SOCIETY interprets this would be completely different of they were average or dogs.

You didn't see my edit so my last point wasn't there.

[a fat lunchlady]

And part of the reason I'm not that pissed is because there's no way in hell we're not doing the exact same thing in sending spies over there.

[National Kato]

You didn't see my edit so my last point wasn't there.

I don't think the edit changes much. Essentially, most countries are going to plaster an attractive spy's face all over the media. That's not a difference in culture, it's human nature. If it's a hot female spy, even more so. Look at how Italy and other countries handled the Amanda Knox story. That girl allegedly murdered someone. Nothing sexy about that act, but the media made it so.

America isn't more prurient than other countries, as Adam stated. Watch any international television and you'll see full nudity, sexual game shows, etc.

[civil]

civil, xbox=hot blond, ps3=hot brunette
. . . . . . . . .

:: Begins to type out rebuttal ::

"dear a fat..."

:: Looks at ps3 name ::

Fuck it.

[Siraris]

PERHAPS porn producers are unscrupulous bastards willing to use people to their own ends?

Nah, couldn't be.

I love you Orc, I really do, but sometimes you make me want to express that love with my fists.

[Handmade.Mercury]

Nothing beats a good brunette.

[Spectre-7]

Nothing beats a good brunette.

I hear some husbands do...
As penance for that one-liner, here's an informative site about domestic violence. (http://www.domesticviolence.org/)

[a fat lunchlady]

I don't think the edit changes much. Essentially, most countries are going to plaster an attractive spy's face all over the media. That's not a difference in culture, it's human nature. If it's a hot female spy, even more so. Look at how Italy and other countries handled the Amanda Knox story. That girl allegedly murdered someone. Nothing sexy about that act, but the media made it so.

America isn't more prurient than other countries, as Adam stated. Watch any international television and you'll see full nudity, sexual game shows, etc.

Right but the original question was why isn't anyone taking it more seriously. In my opinion it's because they're hot and Americans love hot people. That and like I said, I'm sure we do the same thing with sending spies over there.

[a fat lunchlady]

Nothing beats a good brunette.

A good blonde.

[Karak]

Right but the original question was why isn't anyone taking it more seriously. In my opinion it's because they're hot and Americans love hot people. That and like I said, I'm sure we do the same thing with sending spies over there.

You know...I already just assume that what we hear about is 1% of what occurs. So this is bad, yes, but it doesn't even make a bump in my problems sensor:) With the oil spill and bad shit happening all the time, a couple hot spies possibly even fucking on camera does nothing for me.

They are hot, women, spies.
Exactly like the hot girls I know except they probably lie worse that the girls I know and are telling military secrets instead of mine, and might do porn, just like one of my ex's. All in all, pretty tame.

[fitbabits]

She looks like Paris Hilton would look like if she wasn't Paris Hilton. Plus, she's a spy...

[National Kato]

The people in charge of state secrets are taking this very seriously, I assure you. Our media? Well, what do you expect?

As for how a hot American spy would be treated in Russia? About the same.

[Handmade.Mercury]

I hear some husbands do...
As penance for that one-liner, here's an informative site about domestic violence. (http://www.domesticviolence.org/)

Well, then she wasn't very good, was she?
pleasedon'thurtme

[Savok]

Right but the original question was why isn't anyone taking it more seriously. In my opinion it's because they're hot and Americans love hot people. That and like I said, I'm sure we do the same thing with sending spies over there.
Because it's Russia. It's no longer seen as the enemy, but a place to get mail order brides because marrying a fat American is better then living there.

If this were a hot Chinese spy the tone would be quite different, though no less sexy.

[johnperkins21]

The craziest thing about all of this, to me, is how light hearted people are taking it. These people are spies, and they're being offered porn contracts? This isn't some actors mistress, we're talking international espionage here.

Who cares? Does anyone really think Russia is planning to drop nuclear bombs on us? So what if they get some of our military secrets? Seriously, who gives a shit? The Cold War is over because it was all bullshit to begin with. Let them rummage around in the Pentagon for a few weeks with full access to every single piece of military information we have. Do you honestly believe that would somehow make us less safe in our day-to-day lives? Personally, I don't.

You know...I already just assume that what we hear about is 1% of what occurs. So this is bad, yes, but it doesn't even make a bump in my problems sensor:) With the oil spill and bad shit happening all the time, a couple hot spies possibly even fucking on camera does nothing for me.

This. The oil spill in the gulf is ten thousand times more dangerous to all of us than some Russian spies. If they were South Korean spies, well, maybe it would be slightly more disconcerting. The gulf spill would only be nine thousand times more dangerous.

[Ox]

The craziest thing about all of this, to me, is how light hearted people are taking it. These people are spies, and they're being offered porn contracts? This isn't some actors mistress, we're talking international espionage here.
I would hatefuck them while singing "Battle Hymn to the Republic." That's the most I can offer.

If this were a hot Chinese spy the tone would be quite different, though no less sexy.
This reads best in a Zapp Brannigan voice.

Does anyone really think Russia is planning to drop nuclear bombs on us? So what if they get some of our military secrets? Seriously, who gives a shit?
The Russians would almost certainly sell our tech to various unpleasant people. And then there's the whole "epsionage is bad even if you're working for a third-rate country" thing.

If they were South Korean spies, well, maybe it would be slightly more disconcerting.
I assume you meant to say North Korean. Although I hope you meant to say this and have an elaborate theory about how my local Hyundai dealer is planning to destroy America.

[Savok]

This reads best in a Zapp Brannigan voice.

I assume you meant to say North Korean. Although I hope you meant to say this and have an elaborate theory about how my local Hyundai dealer is planning to destroy America.
Success, because that's who was saying it in my head.

And it's not that elaborate a plan, they sell Hyundais.

[BigJonno]

I just demonstrates how people have dealt with the Cold War by making a joke out of it. If it was anyone else, I think the reaction would have been stronger, although I'm sure hot spy pictures would still have been everywhere. As it is, everyone seems to be shrugging, laughing and tousling their hair like the cheeky scamps they are. It's a "Those crazy Russians!" moment.

[Narradisall]

The first one was hotter.

Still, if any of you guy's don't want Red Dawn after this, I pity you!

[Narradisall]

As for the other thread comments.

I think the only way to settle this is for us to see some sexy North Korean spies....

[Savok]

I just demonstrates how people have dealt with the Cold War by making a joke out of it. If it was anyone else, I think the reaction would have been stronger, although I'm sure hot spy pictures would still have been everywhere. As it is, everyone seems to be shrugging, laughing and tousling their hair like the cheeky scamps they are. It's a "Those crazy Russians!" moment.
Some of us miss the side effects of the Cold War as well, shit got done. We went to the moon, made supersonic airliners, all manner of advances. Only thing we've done lately is the Veyron, and maybe Dubai, everything else has just been getting worse.

[bstiff]

As for the other thread comments.

I think the only way to settle this is for us to see some sexy North Korean spies....

Don't get your hopes up. I have a sneaking suspicion they would look like Kim Jong Il in drag.

[TheFlyingOrc]

Don't get your hopes up. I have a sneaking suspicion they would look like Kim Jong Il in drag.

Picturing Kim Jong Il in drag, in America, pretending to be a sexy college coed on vacation so that he can learn all of America's secrets, without realizing that EVERYONE KNOWS - this is a very funny image. It would make for a good comedy sketch.

[johnperkins21]

This reads best in a Zapp Brannigan voice.
Great point. Thoroughly adds to my enjoyment.

The Russians would almost certainly sell our tech to various unpleasant people. And then there's the whole "epsionage is bad even if you're working for a third-rate country" thing.
How so? I still don't believe that we truly harbor any secrets that if "the enemy" got a hold of would make us any less safe. It simply feels like a way for the government to pretend that they're doing something important.

I assume you meant to say North Korean. Although I hope you meant to say this and have an elaborate theory about how my local Hyundai dealer is planning to destroy America.
Yes, North Korea. My bad. Though your Hyundai dealer might be planning to destroy America. Their new ads even admit to spying.

mYuM7V5r4G4

[Savok]

Well, no secrets some girl posting her sexy nakedness on Facebook can obtain anyway.

[Krispy]

How so? I still don't believe that we truly harbor any secrets that if "the enemy" got a hold of would make us any less safe. It simply feels like a way for the government to pretend that they're doing something important.

We spend a good deal of our country's treasury to develop that technology so that we are one step ahead of other militaries. I suppose if you are okay with giving away millions of dollars of research to folks who would like very much to maim us then there is no issue, but that seems rather peculiar and somewhat suicidal. It's like spending money on a gun and then giving it to the crazed homeless guy who thinks you kicked his trash can over so he can shoot you in the foot.

[carnage11]

LMFAO.


America....turning your spies into porn stars.


:D

[Krispy]

LMFAO.


America....turning your spies into porn stars.


:D

I like to imagine the initial interrogation went something like this:

CIA Agent: Listen, Ana. We know who you are. We know who you work for. We are on your Facebook. Cut the shit. Right now you only have two options: either you become a double operative for us or you let me cum all over your face in front of a camera like a dirty little slut in a Moscow back alley. One of these options has a future. The other does not.

And then she picked the right choice.

[johnperkins21]

We spend a good deal of our country's treasury to develop that technology so that we are one step ahead of other militaries. I suppose if you are okay with giving away millions of dollars of research to folks who would like very much to maim us then there is no issue, but that seems rather peculiar and somewhat suicidal. It's like spending money on a gun and then giving it to the crazed homeless guy who thinks you kicked his trash can over so he can shoot you in the foot.

Your analogy is poor. It would be like designing a new type of gun and then handing those plans over to the homeless guy. He'd still have to gather the raw materials and have the engineering capability to turn those plans into a functioning weapon. If he had all of that he could have had his own gun already, arguably not quite as nice, but still just as deadly, to shoot me with. Giving him the plans to make a better gun doesn't make him more dangerous, it just gives him an opportunity to make a better gun at some undetermined point in the future.

I don't think there are really that many countries out there that want to maim us (if any), and I'm fairly certain that Russia most definitely doesn't care to start a war. I'm much more worried about getting hit by a bus on my way to work than some hot Russian spy rummaging through some secret documents. You put that hot Russian spy in a porno, and the bus quickly moves to the back of my mind while I think of these new possibilities.

[Thanasimos]

Your analogy is poor. It would be like designing a new type of gun and then handing those plans over to the homeless guy. He'd still have to gather the raw materials and have the engineering capability to turn those plans into a functioning weapon. If he had all of that he could have had his own gun already, arguably not quite as nice, but still just as deadly, to shoot me with. Giving him the plans to make a better gun doesn't make him more dangerous, it just gives him an opportunity to make a better gun at some undetermined point in the future.

And yours is poorer still. Russia isn't a third world country. The plans have been handed to a bitter rival who has all the raw materials and manufacturing capabilities ready; to turn this into one of these silly analogies, he already has all the same power tools.

[TheFlyingOrc]

Your analogy is poor. It would be like designing a new type of gun and then handing those plans over to the homeless guy. He'd still have to gather the raw materials and have the engineering capability to turn those plans into a functioning weapon. If he had all of that he could have had his own gun already, arguably not quite as nice, but still just as deadly, to shoot me with. Giving him the plans to make a better gun doesn't make him more dangerous, it just gives him an opportunity to make a better gun at some undetermined point in the future.

So we should simply publish blueprints of all our military weaponry on the internet, and there will be LITERALLY no repercussions. To confirm: This is actually your point.

[johnperkins21]

And yours is poorer still. Russia isn't a third world country. The plans have been handed to a bitter rival who has all the raw materials and manufacturing capabilities ready; to turn this into one of these silly analogies, he already has all the same power tools.
Bitter rival? Russia? Ha. And my point was that the homeless guy already has all the stuff to make a gun, just not one that is quite as nice

So we should simply publish blueprints of all our military weaponry on the internet, and there will be LITERALLY no repercussions. To confirm: This is actually your point.
There would be some repercussions, but none that would actually make us substantially less safe. That is what I'm saying.

A lot of our weapons are designed to hit specific targets, minimizing unintended casualties. We spend quite a bit of money on becoming more accurate. The people we should be most afraid of want to increase casualties. How does a bomb that can land on a dime 5000 miles away help the Taliban any more than a bomb that can land within a mile of its intended target 5000 miles away?

We don't have a secret formula for building nukes, it's just hard to come by the materials. So what secrets do we have that would really make us less safe? I don't think they should post everything on the Internet, but acting like it's a big deal when some of our "secrets" get out feels disingenuous to me.

[Krispy]

You are being incredibly obtuse.

http://www.listosaurusrex.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/01/obtuse.PNG

[bstiff]

Bitter rival? Russia? Ha. And my point was that the homeless guy already has all the stuff to make a gun, just not one that is quite as nice


There would be some repercussions, but none that would actually make us substantially less safe. That is what I'm saying.

A lot of our weapons are designed to hit specific targets, minimizing unintended casualties. We spend quite a bit of money on becoming more accurate. The people we should be most afraid of want to increase casualties. How does a bomb that can land on a dime 5000 miles away help the Taliban any more than a bomb that can land within a mile of its intended target 5000 miles away?

We don't have a secret formula for building nukes, it's just hard to come by the materials. So what secrets do we have that would really make us less safe? I don't think they should post everything on the Internet, but acting like it's a big deal when some of our "secrets" get out feels disingenuous to me.

Well I guess to use your taliban example, suppose they somehow got information that our new ultra modern explosive sniffing devices in airports don't detect explosive compound X. I think that may have some repercussions.

All "secrets" that get out don't necessarily need to be military. Remember the guy who sold all the names of the eastern european covert operatives to the Russians? At his trial, something like 36 deaths were attributed to him selling that information.

It's not so much people are worried that someone who gets the information will build their own version of whatever, it's that they may be able to develop countermeasures/work arounds to our systems they would not have been able to do without classified information leaked to them.

[johnperkins21]

You are being incredibly obtuse.

You're welcome to that opinion, but I've yet to be given a solid reason how our "secrets" staying secret keeps us any more safe.

I simply don't believe that there are millions of people out there that want to blow us up, or that there are nations that really want to go to war with us, but are just waiting to get their hands on some secret blueprints.

I cannot fathom any secrets that we have hidden away somewhere that are actively making us more safe while hidden than we would be if they somehow got out.

[bstiff]

Picturing Kim Jong Il in drag, in America, pretending to be a sexy college coed on vacation so that he can learn all of America's secrets, without realizing that EVERYONE KNOWS - this is a very funny image. It would make for a good comedy sketch.

They'd need to get the asian guy from madtv to play him.

[Krispy]

I currently work at a research facility whose technology has cost the United States nearly 2 billion dollars. It gets 3 terrabytes of malicious cyber attacks a day. The CIA and FBI train here so that they can track foreign spies. The security officers in certain areas are given permission to shoot to kill. It would be an understatement to say the technology here is desirable. You don't think it's in our best interest to keep our 2 billion dollar investment confidential?

A counter point is laughably easy. We have superior tracking and radar technology to any one in the world. If that got into the wild it would be remedial to reverse engineer it and fool the scanners causing American soldiers to be ambushed. It's happened in the past. Hell, history is riddled with examples. The Manhattan project is the largest profile. Transmission codes. Biological counteragents. Stealth technology. Strategies. And these are just things that would harm you if found by an enemy and completely disregarding the effect of loosing a margin of superiority which is analyzed in advanced game theory. Please don't make me talk game theory... it's a lot of math.

[johnperkins21]

Well I guess to use your taliban example, suppose they somehow got information that our new ultra modern explosive sniffing devices in airports don't detect explosive compound X. I think that may have some repercussions.

All "secrets" that get out don't necessarily need to be military. Remember the guy who sold all the names of the eastern european covert operatives to the Russians? At his trial, something like 36 deaths were attributed to him selling that information.

I don't buy into the whole airport security thing. There have been, what, 3 or 4 attempts to hijack or otherwise blow up commercial airlines since 2001? I still have a better chance of being killed in a car accident.

Selling that info made those 36 dudes less safe, not our country. And they knew the risks going in. It's not like they were professional pillow fluffers. You want to be a spy, you take the risk. We've all seen Alias.

[Krispy]

I guess what baffles me most is you are basically saying the Cold War was in everyone's head and in fact there was no threat.

[johnperkins21]

I currently work at a research facility whose technology has cost the United States nearly 2 billion dollars. It gets 3 terrabytes of malicious cyber attacks a day. The CIA and FBI train here so that they can track foreign spies. The security officers in certain areas are given permission to shoot to kill. It would be an understatement to say the technology here is desirable. You don't think it's in our best interest to keep our 2 billion dollar investment confidential?

A counter point is laughably easy. We have superior tracking and radar technology to any one in the world. If that got into the wild it would be remedial to reverse engineer it and fool the scanners causing American soldiers to be ambushed. It's happened in the past. Hell, history is riddled with examples. The Manhattan project is the largest profile. Transmission codes. Biological counteragents. Stealth technology. Strategies. And these are just things that would harm you if found by an enemy and completely disregarding the effect of loosing a margin of superiority which is analyzed in advanced game theory. Please don't make me talk game theory... it's a lot of math.

I think it's in our best interest to spend that money elsewhere. Without knowing what it is, I can't comment on how important I think it is to keep it confidential. Though it's hard to fathom that it really matters all that much. How long will it be confidential? 10 years? 20 years? 50 years? Definitely not forever. How much safer are we that it's confidential for a short to medium period of time? Can that be quantified?

2 Billion dollars could house and feed a ton of Americans. It could house and feed even more starving people in other countries, improving our public relations throughout the world. How much more safe would we be if we took that money and used it to spread goodwill rather than fear through our overwhelming power? Can that be quantified?

American soldiers are already ambushed. Get them the hell out of other countries, and they'll have a much lower chance of being killed for invading another country. All that tech that you're talking about us developing simply gives us military superiority over other countries, who have no interest in blowing us up.

Feed their citizens with the money we spend on our secrets, and they'll support us against their government. It might be naive and optimistic, but that doesn't mean it won't work as well as what we're doing now.

[johnperkins21]

I guess what baffles me most is you are basically saying the Cold War was in everyone's head and in fact there was no threat.

Correct. It made no sense for either side to start a war that would have basically wiped out the planet. It was all a bunch of posturing and chest pounding. It was a dick measuring contest.

[Krispy]

American soldiers are already ambushed. Get them the hell out of other countries, and they'll have a much lower chance of being killed for invading another country. All that tech that you're talking about us developing simply gives us military superiority over other countries, who have no interest in blowing us up.

We have dialectic slippage! Let's patch up this sinking ship! It doesn't matter to my argument whether or not American's are already being ambushed. I just need you to admit that giving up military secrets can cause Americans to get ambushed. Even if it's just one. Do you agree? If not, I'll appeal to some relevant empirical evidence.

FYI, the money is being used to develop fusion energy which would provide free, limitless energy without pollutants. It's our government's attempt to solve the energy and climate change crisis. I can't think of anything more important in the world. Forcing the government to give up all of those research secrets for nothing would be like forcing every business to give up their company secrets. If we can't leverage the technology then it is not only inert as an asset, but detrimental.

[civil]

http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q135/tlots/CoG/PU.jpg

[Clark]

Correct. It made no sense for either side to start a war that would have basically wiped out the planet. It was all a bunch of posturing and chest pounding. It was a dick measuring contest.

I mostly agree except for what took place during the Cuban Missle Crisis.

[rahsoul]

FYI, the money is being used to develop fusion energy which would provide free, limitless energy without pollutants.

I was agreeing with most of what you said up until this point. I mean, when you liken a country to a business that needs to protect its assets, it all sounds good on paper.

But when you are talking about vehemently protecting limitless energy (without pollutants) from other countries that really really need it (that could save how many lives?), so that you can lord it over them later down the line for a hefty price, well as a human that just doesn't feel right.

Edit:

I can't think of anything more important in the world.

Yikes. Most important thing in the WORLD? Shouldn't we already be SHARING the research then?

[johnperkins21]

We have dialectic slippage! Let's patch up this sinking ship! It doesn't matter to my argument whether or not American's are already being ambushed. I just need you to admit that giving up military secrets can cause Americans to get ambushed. Even if it's just one. Do you agree? If not, I'll appeal to some relevant empirical evidence.
Yes, I agree. It puts some Americans at greater risk. I don't believe it's much more risk than they already shoulder, and I don't believe it's average Americans who are not involved in the execution of other humans who are placed at more risk.

FYI, the money is being used to develop fusion energy which would provide free, limitless energy without pollutants. It's our government's attempt to solve the energy and climate change crisis. I can't think of anything more important in the world. Forcing the government to give up all of those research secrets for nothing would be like forcing every business to give up their company secrets. If we can't leverage the technology then it is not only inert as an asset, but detrimental.
If this is something you think we should keep secret, then I believe we are at an impasse.

[Krispy]

These are two threads of discussion so I'll try to wrap up the first one quickly. If you agree that keeping military secrets increases the security of Americans then it is valuable. The argument breaks down like this.

1. Keeping military secrets saves military lives.
2. Military lives are valuable.
_______________________________________
:. Keeping military secrets is valuable.

This is about as simple as predicate logic gets. And I'm not even taking the general form which is even more defensible... It doesn't matter what degree you lean on unless we want to talk ergonomics instead of philosophy (the cost to practicality ratio of keeping secrets -- i.e. quantifying human lives) at which point I'm no longer qualified to comment and I really doubt you are either. If you simply disagree that those choosing the secrets are choosing the right ones then the argument shifts from whether or not secrets are valuable to whether or not our policies for choosing secrets are tenable. While it isn't an analytic truth, it is a posteriori knowable and although this hinges on a hidden premise that military secrets are chosen because they save lives, that is precisely what we are talking about in the context of military espionage. It wouldn't make sense for spies to target secrets that have no value unless we want to appeal to a strawman. Be careful though, strawmen burn easy.

___________


Onto the second thread of discussion. It's really no secret what we do, although hugely unknown. Part of my job is educating people about the monumental task we are undertaking. However, we have a right to the technology we develop. Yes, the lab works with foreign countries. Japan, France, Germany, and China are all doing their own fusion programs and we often collaborate although ours still remains the most powerful laser facility in the world by over 200 fold. Yes, we plan to share the technology with the world. The secrets of ICF (Inertial Confinement Fusion) are open to anyone who cares to flip through a science journal; however, the diagram schematics for LIFE (our ICF power plant) is not something you'll find in a science journal even though it may discuss its principles. That's our right as an intellectual.

If another country wants to design their own ICF power plant they are more than welcome although I really doubt they will. What's more likely to happen is major power companies will license the technology from us and then get hired by governments to build. Research costs an abysmal amount of money, especially when someone else has already done it for you. You might be worried that power companies will leverage this advantage. That's the beauty of it being a DOE project. It would be government mandated, by law, to be accessible.

You might be wondering why such an important project isn't a world collaboration. This isn't simple to answer so I'll attack it from a few angles and hopefully get you in the ball park. First of all, there's that ugly girl in the corner everyone is guilty of making out with named Politics. Something along the lines of energy is part of the age old power struggle. When billions of dollars of government money and resources are involved everyone gets uneasy. Who gets what share? Who has what rights? Who owns what properties? How do we split the booking? This isn't a philanthropy project like the Hadron collider. This is very relevant and important to the governments immediately. For example, despite collaborating with China, by far most of our infiltration attempts come from their country. No one in their right mind would agree to be project partners with China and expect a clean dealing.

Another problem is that the research facility is a progenitor of technology built progressively in the same lab over a few decades and is therefore naturally on American soil and that alone makes a lot of simple dealings complicated. However, the best and brightest from around the world DO come to our lab. We hold video conferences where a team of top scientists review research propositions from around the world and rate them on which show most promise and then allow those foreign entities to come and use the facilities. Further, the science community in general recognizes the benefit of competition. You'll find this argument is older than dirt between intellectuals but in practice it's entirely one sided. Competition drives innovation by direct empirical correlation.

I'll agree that it's unfortunate that the world is so hostile. The world ought to be a great place where everyone can collaborate freely and be productive, but, as we all learned from Hume, an ought does not make an is. I'll pour a 40 for your communist dreams.

[Khrymsyn]

If this is something you think we should keep secret, then I believe we are at an impasse.

If, in the process of trying to come up with the method to create energy via fusion, they come across methods of making fusion warheads smaller and more viable, then yes, absolutely, it is a secret that should be kept.

Just because you're trying to discover A, doesn't mean discoveries B, C, D, etc do not happen, cannot happen, or cannot be used in methods unintended.

[TheFlyingOrc]

Correct. It made no sense for either side to start a war that would have basically wiped out the planet. It was all a bunch of posturing and chest pounding. It was a dick measuring contest.

Yes....that was the entire point of our nuclear strategy. Keep things in a state where the Russians would never attack because the result could not possibly be worth it. It was a brilliant application of game theory, and I'm amazed that people still think "USING IT WOULD HAVE BEEN DUMB!!!" is clever.

[Clark]

Yes....that was the entire point of our nuclear strategy. Keep things in a state where the Russians would never attack because the result could not possibly be worth it. It was a brilliant application of game theory, and I'm amazed that people still think "USING IT WOULD HAVE BEEN DUMB!!!" is clever.

But it was at that state for a long, long time and we continued to produce nuclear weapons. We didn't need to.

[Ox]

But it was at that state for a long, long time and we continued to produce nuclear weapons. We didn't need to.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/bb/US_and_USSR_nuclear_stockpiles.svg

Unless you are drinking vodka and wrestling a bear right now, I think you are using "we" incorrectly.

[Xerxes]

Cause I like to go against the grain. Meh, to both of them. :)

[Stoke]

Cause I like to go against the grain. Meh, to both of them. :)

High five!

Actually I agree, I find neither of them attractive and I'm not gay. Don't get me wrong, they're not ugly, just not my type.

To be honest, the best thing about this thread is the discussion about spying rather than about the spies.

[Xerxes]

I wouldn't kick them out of bed, but they are kind plain to my eyes. Maybe if they was talking in Russian or something.

What the fuck is up with all these normal spies? I was about to say none of these folks are like Michael Weston. But then I thought, either of these chicks would be an improvement over Fiona.

[Ox]

But then I thought, either of these chicks would be an improvement over Fiona.
You shut your filthy whore mouth.

[rahsoul]

Stuff

Well explained. Though, I still wouldn't feel bad if a spy stole information on free energy.

[Khrymsyn]

You shut your filthy whore mouth.

Seriously, they are.
I've seen more curves on a tree-branch.


I'd rather Weston's Ex, played by the insanely hot Dina Meyer.
Yum.

[Krispy]

Well explained. Though, I still wouldn't feel bad if a spy stole information on free energy.

The technology is far from harmless. The lasers we have put out 2 megajoules of energy per burst. It's powerful enough to create a miniature star inside a target chamber. Double edged swords and all that lot.

What the fuck is up with all these normal spies? I was about to say none of these folks are like Michael Weston.

The man who plays Michael Weston was legitimately in espionage for most of his life before becoming an actor.

[Ox]

I want that to be true so bad.

[wyeast]

The man who plays Michael Weston was legitimately in espionage for most of his life before becoming an actor.
If by espionage, you mean that he's been on TV since the age of about 27, yeah sure, you betcha. :o

However, he is a black belt and something of a philanthropist, and he works alongside Bruce Campbell, so he gets pretty high marks anyway. :D

[wyeast]

I wouldn't kick them out of bed, but they are kind plain to my eyes. Maybe if they was talking in Russian or something.

What the fuck is up with all these normal spies? I was about to say none of these folks are like Michael Weston. But then I thought, either of these chicks would be an improvement over Fiona.

You want a spy to blend in, be kind of average or somewhat above-average looking. A knockout hottie Russian working in a national lab sticks out like a sore thumb. Trust me on that one. :o

[Krispy]

I'm not much of a liar.

And yeah. Young people working at a lab stands out let alone a good looking girl. All of the frustrated 40 year old men steal looks so often it makes me feel ashamed. At least it's like that in physics departments, I think the hot woman quotient in bio labs is much higher. I'll find out in a couple of months.

[wyeast]

I'm not much of a liar.

And yeah. Young people working at a lab stands out let alone a good looking girl. All of the frustrated 40 year old men steal looks so often it makes me feel ashamed. At least it's like that in physics departments, I think the hot woman quotient in bio labs is much higher. I'll find out in a couple of months.

The lab I was in was crawling with younger folk, so that wasn't so unusual. A fair number of Russians, too. Which did surprise me.

And yes, some were quite attractive. ;)

[Krispy]

What was the field of research? I want to maximize the hot chick to important discovery ratio in my future career path.

[wyeast]

What was the field of research? I want to maximize the hot chick to important discovery ratio in my future career path.

To maximize it, look towards the biosciences. Ratio wasn't terribly high were I was, I was mostly remarking that there were a surprising number of Russians there.

[Krispy]

Excellent. When I polled my biochemistry lab there was an inordinate amount of hot blonds for upper division science courses.

[PathMaster]

Nothing beats a good brunette.

A good blonde.

Umm, two brunettes beat both, duh!!

Anna Fermanova is far more attractive to me, but I agree with a few others. Neither is anything special.

[rahsoul]

Neither is anything special.

A spy isn't something special? I'd hate to see what's special for you. ;)

[PathMaster]

A spy isn't something special? I'd hate to see what's special for you. ;)

Well the sex might be interesting considering the danger level. Plus I am sure as a spy she has been trained in the sexual arts. :p That also means she is trained to hurt me. So, I would prefer to keep my peepee peepeing after the sex. :(

[TheFlyingOrc]

But it was at that state for a long, long time and we continued to produce nuclear weapons. We didn't need to.

The whole point was posturing. It really isn't any more dangerous for the US to have enough weapons to destroy the world 5 times or 50. Literally all we were doing was showing the soviets "We can still blow you up, so don't blow us up or get overly aggressive in Europe". I can't speak for Russia, but we never, never, never intended to actually fire a single nuclear weapon at Russia. We just needed them to know that WE WOULD.

[TheFlyingOrc]

So, I would prefer to keep my peepee peepeing after the sex. :(
This wording implies you were peepeeing DURING the sex.

[Ox]

I can't speak for Russia, but we never, never, never intended to actually fire a single nuclear weapon at Russia.
I'm not sure that's really true. In fact, it's probably less true for us than it is for the Soviets. Remember that our policy for defending Western Europe more-or-less explicitly (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Look_(policy)) rested on first use of nuclear weapons, even in the face of a strictly conventional onslaught.

I seem to recall Khrushchev threatening to use nukes during the Suez Crisis, but he was only threatening to nuke France, Britain, and Israel.

[txshurricane]

Hey, everyone, important announcement: it's spelled Michael Westen.

Back to your regularly scheduled fapping.

[Xerxes]

Hey, everyone, important announcement: it's spelled Michael Westen.

Back to your regularly scheduled fapping.

In less lazier times I would of made corrections and asked what the hell are you talking about.

[Generation ABXY]

Back to your regularly scheduled fapping.

In that case...
http://img39.imageshack.us/img39/8279/chapman.jpg

[PathMaster]

This wording implies you were peepeeing DURING the sex.

Whoops! I will counter with: Your wording implies you view that as a bad thing? ;)

[TheFlyingOrc]

Whoops! I will counter with: Your wording implies you view that as a bad thing? ;)

R KELLY POSTS ON Colony of Gamers: CONFIRMED

[Savok]

xnqcO0GhqkQ

[PathMaster]

R KELLY POSTS ON Colony of Gamers: CONFIRMED

Not my fault those Russians like their Golden Showers. Must have something to do with Siberia being cold and trying to stay warm.