Shiggy Thinks Portal Is the Shit

[quidmonkey]

Among other things in Part 2 of this Stephen Totilo interview (http://multiplayerblog.mtv.com/2008/10/29/shigeru-miyamoto-punchout-mario-zelda-portal/#more-12467):

Multiplayer: I want to make sure that the dichotomy that I was breaking down was clear. I was asking if, internally at Nintendo — and I guess this is a personal judgment call on my part — but I feel that “Wii Sports” and “Wii Music” have been more radically different from what I would call their predecessors — which are other sports games and other music games — than I feel, as wonderful as they are, “Super Mario Galaxy” or the last “Zelda” are as radically different from their predecessors. And so, I’m curious if you can identify why it is that Nintendo can innovate more radically in certain genres. And, again, I’m guessing that it’s because these are genres that you guys haven’t done as much in. There’s more room to think freely, perhaps?

Miyamoto: You ask very good questions! [Everyone laughs]

Multiplayer: Define “good.” [More laughter]

Miyamoto: That’s something that I talk to the members of my development team about on a regular basis.

What I’ve been saying to our development teams recently is that “Twilight Princess” was not a bad game, by any means. But, still, it felt like there was something missing. And while, personally, I feel like “Super Mario Galaxy” was able to do some things that were very new and were very unique, at the same time, from another perspective, certain elements of it do feel somewhat conservative in terms of how far we branched out with design. And so this is something I’ve been talking to both of those teams about.

Of course, as is customary with Nintendo, it’s very rare that we are able to announce any games until they’re ready for release, but I can say that these are themes that both of those teams are taking into account and the hope is that for both of those franchises, when we do release the next installments of the “Zelda” [franchise] or maybe the next “Galaxy,” hopefully they will feel newer and fresher than their most recent versions.

[violent]

I missed the word "the" in the title the first time I read it. I was about to let him have it.

[Urizen]

I don't recall Miyamoto ever calling another game bad. He doesn't often talk about other people's games, but he's invariably got praise for them. He and Kojima have a deep respect for one another presumably to some extent for each other's work, but I don't think either one is the least bit interested in making the kind of games the other makes.

Miyamoto is generally a warm and positive guy in interviews, so until he calls out another designer or game as 'bad', I'll take his positivity towards the competition's work as not disingenuous, but amorphous. I don't think Miyamoto plays games the way many of us do.

[TheFlyingOrc]

I don't recall Miyamoto ever calling another game bad. He doesn't often talk about other people's games, but he's invariably got praise for them. He and Kojima have a deep respect for one another presumably to some extent for each other's work, but I don't think either one is the least bit interested in making the kind of games the other makes.

Miyamoto is generally a warm and positive guy in interviews, so until he calls out another designer or game as 'bad', I'll take his positivity towards the competition's work as not disingenuous, but amorphous. I don't think Miyamoto plays games the way many of us do.

He was kind to the Super Mario Brothers movie.

If anyone else had seen a director taking their work and turning it into one of the worst movies ever made, they wouldn't have responded by saying "I'm sure they had a lot of fun making it!"

[quidmonkey]

He was kind to the Super Mario Brothers movie.

If anyone else had seen a director taking their work and turning it into one of the worst movies ever made, they wouldn't have responded by saying "I'm sure they had a lot of fun making it!"

So you're saying Miyamoto thinks Portal is shit.

[TheFlyingOrc]

So you're saying Miyamoto thinks Portal is shit.

Nope, I just think he likes EVERYTHING IN THE WHOLE WORLD.

It is hard to find a picture of Miyamoto where it doesn't look like he just won the lottery. I'd be hard pressed to think of a more likable person more deserving of his success.

[rinichanraar]

Nope, I just think he likes EVERYTHING IN THE WHOLE WORLD.

It is hard to find a picture of Miyamoto where it doesn't look like he just won the lottery. I'd be hard pressed to think of a more likable person more deserving of his success.

That actually seems pretty accurate. Though in the interview, he didn't really comment very much on Mirror's Edge despite the interviewer seeming to really, really like it.

[TheFlyingOrc]

That actually seems pretty accurate. Though in the interview, he didn't really comment very much on Mirror's Edge despite the interviewer seeming to really, really like it.

He might not know what it is - he never seemed that into western-styled games.

[quidmonkey]

He might not know what it is - he never seemed that into western-styled games.

He's often quoted as saying that he doesn't play many games.

[Talon]

He might not know what it is - he never seemed that into western-styled games.

I know that he's seen it, and that he said he thought it was an interesting new take on platforming.

Apparently, Mr. Miyamoto and a posse of Nintendo folks make the rounds at E3 look at all the major games. I seem to recall him giving high praise to LBP.

[TheKeck]

The thread title does not seem to correlate to the supplied quote. :(

[EternalGamer]

Actually, I think it might be a little bit different. If somebody were to come to me and say, “There’s this particular genre of games and these are all the different games in that genre and they’re all very similar. We want you to create something very similar to what those are,” certainly from a design perspective I would be able to design a game like that. And the team members I have working with me would certainly be able to program and create a game that would be very similar to essentially anything else that’s out there and feel that we could do it quite well.

Instead, where I think we’re able to innovate is we’re able to find something that’s a unique resource, or a unique idea or a unique sense of what is fun. And because that sense of what is fun is unique, we’re able to bring it together in a very simple form. And it’s still very fun.



I don't think it is very gracious of him to imply that people who make games in traditional genres are just doing nothing more than supplying games for a demographic and try to position himself as a some type of revolutionary that is refusing to do so, especially given that the type of product he is now creating caters to the mainstream far more than those traditional genres do.

Whereas, a lot of times in game development, teams might look at an interactive gameplay element that maybe isn’t in and of itself a particularly fun thing to do. But then what they do is they refine it, they polish it very well, they put a lot of other elements around it and then that experience becomes fun.

I liken it almost to cooking. There are certain elements of cooking where if you’re able to find a very delicious ingredient, all you have to do is put a little bit of salt on it. Then you cook it and it tastes amazing. Whereas, when you have something that doesn’t taste very good, typically then you have to season it and put sauces on it, and find ways to take something that at its core isn’t very delicious and make it taste delicious. Somebody who is a very good chef, if you say, “I want you to create a fantastic French meal,” obviously if they’re a very good chef, they can do that. But often times the chefs are more interested in finding the most delicious ingredients they can find and cooking those in a way that really highlights the inherent deliciousness of the ingredient. And that, I feel, is our job in game design.

Where this analogy falls apart for me is in its failure to recognize the importants of audience. Someone without a sophisticated pallet is not likely to appreciate the subtleties of gourmet cooking. Miyamoto is no longer catering to those with an ability to detect the gourmet experience; he is catering to those without the pallet to know the difference. His concerns now is to "distill" concepts down to appeal to instant gratification of input and response. In other industries, those who cater to the lowest common denominator are not the ones known as "geniuses." Otherwise I would be teaching Dan Brown and Tom Clancy in my literature courses. But it seems Iwata has convinced Miyamoto that this is exactly what he wants to do "as an artist." Conveniently, it is also the path that will make Nintendo truckloads of money.

I don't begrudge him the right to pursue this, but it does seem to put him more in the role of a marketing researcher and less in the role of an artist. If he wants to dumb down games to make them have the simplest possible mechanics, concepts, and aesthetics which have more mass appeal, that is certainly his prerogative. But I don't think we are obligated to allow him to still talk about himself as some sort of avaunt guard when he does.

Hey Iwata, just because Miyamoto is drinking your kool aid, that doesn't mean the rest of us have to.

[TheFlyingOrc]

Otherwise I would be teaching Dan Brown and Tom Clancy in my literature courses.

Yeah, but you don't read Star Wars or comic books in them, either. All videogames are pretty much lowest common denominator, just because he's targeting a different demographic doesn't mean that it's any less valid if they're both vapid.

I haven't played any video game that feels like literature to date. Miyamoto is continually creating genres of games, which is far more than any other designer I can think of.

[EternalGamer]

Yeah, but you don't read Star Wars or comic books in them, either. All videogames are pretty much lowest common denominator, just because he's targeting a different demographic doesn't mean that it's any less valid if they're both vapid.


I won't argue that they aren't all pretty much popcultural junkfood at this point. However, that doesn't mean there isn't still some distinctions to be made. The narratives may be pretty garbage, but at least there is some subtley and sophistication in the use of mechanics and in level design. I don't want my escapist entertainment to be so escapists that neither a brain nor even any skill set is even required.

[Urizen]

I know that he's seen it, and that he said he thought it was an interesting new take on platforming.

Apparently, Mr. Miyamoto and a posse of Nintendo folks make the rounds at E3 look at all the major games. I seem to recall him giving high praise to LBP.

Reggie said Nintendo fell in love with LBP as soon as they saw it. They wanted in. Apparently, there was some back forth between Nintendo, Sony and Media Molecule.

We probably won't know what eventually got MM and Sony the deal the they have now. All Reggie said on that was something like, "We tried. We tried hard. Sony beat us. Congratulations to them. They won a good battle to win."

I'm guessing Miyamoto was part of that discussion.