Auto-Save, Yea or Nay?

[Goronmon]

I made a more detailed rant about auto-saves on the blog (http://www.colonyofgamers.com/cogforums/blog.php?b=351) side of things, but basically, I wish more games had some form an auto-save to prevent me from screwing myself over by forgetting to save often enough.

In generally, my stance that I think it detracts from the gaming experience when I have to force myself to remember to manually bring up menu screens to save as I am playing.

What do you guys think? Does auto-save make games too easy? Are there certain types of games where you think auto-save is a bad idea? Just hate auto-save in general?

[Nura]

I like autosaves, i play games for fun, and i hate it when i get "punished" because the game decides to do something unexpected that kills me. Nothing worse then loosing 2 hours of gameplay, because you forgot to save :/

[TheKeck]

Sure, I like auto-saves there to back me up, but what I really like are quick saves, which I love to ABUSE with wonton disregard.

[Variable Gear]

Is this an argument? Everyone's in agreement...

[axion]

Sure, I like auto-saves there to back me up, but what I really like are quick saves, which I love to ABUSE with wonton disregard.
Quicksave FTW. I do one literally every time I move, just in case.

[carnage11]

It really depends on the game, but for the most part I like auto-saves. There are a few games that are good without it though. For example, games like Oblivion, or other games where you might want to go back or not save something because you're doing something dastardly, you know.:D

Quick save is good, but it's generally only on PC, they need F5/F8 buttons on the consoles. lol :p

[LongStepMantis]

There has always been a Murphy's Law of Gaming around this.
The one time you either forget to save, or decide not to, you will die. Then you get to sit there staring at the Game Over screen as you think...
"I'm glad I wasted that time...awesome."

[NoName]

So far everyone is still for Auto-save. I guess no one likes playing a game for an hour, forgetting to save, and then dieing.

[Goronmon]

So far everyone is still for Auto-save. I guess no one likes playing a game for an hour, forgetting to save, and then dieing.Well, I guess my next question is, why the hell do so many games not have a decent auto-save?

[LongStepMantis]

Well, I guess my next question is, why the hell do so many games not have a decent auto-save?

My pet peeve with autosaving is when some games actually ask if you want to save in the autosave, or ask if you want to overwrite.

No, I want to lose all my progress, but thanks. :D

[ClannerDelta]

I prefer a good autosave. After mile-stone events at the very least.

I don't particularly mind losing progress. Played too many JRPG's for that to effect me anymore. (4 stage 2 hour boss fight and the power goes out!)

I love it because it keeps saving entirely out of my hands. Which keeps me "in" the game longer. I can stay more absorbed in the game world that way. I also tend to play the "No manual saves" game. A sort of death penalty to keep me excited.

[shunoshi]

The auto-save feature has saved me plenty of times, but I do prefer quick saves.

[quidmonkey]

Depends on the design: FE auto-save = win; Halo (checkpoints) = annoying.

[TheKeck]

Quicksave FTW. I do one literally every time I move, just in case.
I can't tell, are you a man after my own heart, or just mocking me? ;)

[BabyJesus]

Sure, I like auto-saves there to back me up, but what I really like are quick saves, which I love to ABUSE with wonton disregard.

With Chinese noodle disregard? :p

Autosaves are great except for when they auto save you at 1 health and no ammo.

[hunterx280]

Auto-saves are fine, they come in handy for when I forget to save. So long as they don't replace manual saves I don't mind. Once they replace manual saves it becomes a problem. We actually got into the discussion of this in my questions about Assassin's Creed PC thread. (http://www.colonyofgamers.com/cogforums/showthread.php?p=45559#post45559)

[carnage11]

With Chinese noodle disregard? :p

Autosaves are great except for when they auto save you at 1 health and no ammo.

It's cool though, because with most games, the auto-save is only used as a secondary, or back-up save.

[Adam Blue]

I like auto-saves, or what I like to call checkpoints. Not often, but like mentioned, after big events.

I think games have been getting better about saving. BiA:HH, for example, requires you to really be careful and plan out the attack or you'll have to start over. I like that. It makes playing that much more hardcore. but luckily, if you have to jet that play time is not a big chunk that you have to play through again.

And then sometimes it depends on the game.

[TheFlyingOrc]

I can't believe that we're 100% on this. Apparently all games should auto-save. :)

[Goronmon]

Auto-saves are fine, they come in handy for when I forget to save. So long as they don't replace manual saves I don't mind. Once they replace manual saves it becomes a problem. We actually got into the discussion of this in my questions about Assassin's Creed PC thread. (http://www.colonyofgamers.com/cogforums/showthread.php?p=45559#post45559)Yeah, you definitely want separate auto and manual saves. I like how Mass Effect did it, where you always had a separate permanent Auto-Save file to fall back on, but could still manually save whenever you wanted.

[Hotcod]

autosaving and rotating quick save slots... why any games anywhere, even on consoles, do not do this these days i have no idea

[Variable Gear]

Well, I guess my next question is, why the hell do so many games not have a decent auto-save?
Because some people are lazier and less thoughtful than other people.

[Lint of Death]

Auto-save nightmare:

Neverwinter Nights: Shadows of Undrentide. I had a kobold bard for a sidekick (small lizardman in this edition of D&D); he was kind of annoying in some ways, sung hilariously poorly, but had his good points like humor and some endearing quirks. Honestly I even liked that you could carry such a silly character throughout the otherwise dark and serious game.

Anyway, there's a point a good ways in where you and your companion are bested by the foe you sought so long and hard to defeat, and are only released from literal petrification a very long time afterward. From there I did some appreciable number of hours of exploring and quest-doing. During a particularly nigh-impossible battle that I just barely won, my kobold buddy was knocked unconscious (maybe dead). I was able to revive him, but I decided to nab the quest item first. As soon as I got my hands around it... AUTOSAVING!!... Oh fuck! My last non-auto-save was even before the major event I described in the spoiler text!

This is the part where I explain to you that, if your companion is dead, if the game autosaves, then he ceases to exist. And this was how I learned about it, and at that stage there aren't any other companions to recruit. You bet your ass I uninstalled that sonofabitch game immediately and long ago now sold it back to EB Games.

[Purple Santa]

So far everyone is still for Auto-save. I guess no one likes playing a game for an hour, forgetting to save, and then dieing.
Be patient. Someone will come along to disagree. Where is Schnoogs or Dukefrukem...

Well, I guess my next question is, why the hell do so many games not have a decent auto-save?

I'd love to hear a developer's side to this question and answer.

[maharahaj]

Yes for autosaves, so long as there are also manual save slots.

[SilentScreams]

I don't mind auto-saves as long as I can set the intervals and it doesn't take long.

[axion]

I can't tell, are you a man after my own heart, or just mocking me? ;)

The former.

[pomeroy]

Yes for autosaves, so long as there are also manual save slots.

This is the correct answer. I like not having to worry, but I also like being able to save at certain points in games (when I have full ammo/health, etc).

[Loki]

For PC, I prefer quick-save. For console, Auto-save in two different parts, a la: Mass Effect 2. I kill a krogan battlemaster, it saves as AutoSave1. Shortly after, I turn in a quest. It saves as AutoSave2. Turns out that I did something wrong and din't get the reward I wanted. I go back to AutoSave1 because I can.

[carnage11]

For PC, I prefer quick-save. For console, Auto-save in two different parts, a la: Mass Effect 2. I kill a krogan battlemaster, it saves as AutoSave1. Shortly after, I turn in a quest. It saves as AutoSave2. Turns out that I did something wrong and din't get the reward I wanted. I go back to AutoSave1 because I can.

Wait.....you've played Mass Effect 2?!?!?! :eek:

[Lint of Death]

Be patient. Someone will come along to disagree. Where is Schnoogs or Dukefrukem...

Did you by any chance see the post right above you? Did anyone? :confused:

[KamaItachi]

Auto-saves are like pizza and candy.

[Loki]

Wait.....you've played Mass Effect 2?!?!?! :eek:

Just a theoretical example of what I wish Mass Effect 2 may provide.

[AbeLincoln]

Yeah, autosave good but you can't take away the manual or quicksaving. What if I'm at a good stopping point and need to leave the game? I can't wait for the next autosave I wanna go.

When I was a kid I remember watching my brother play games (we only had one computer at the time.) My job was often to remind him to quicksave as he progressed, I didn't mind cause hey, I didn't wanna watch the same stuff over and over again...

But that's an example of how having to remember to save can be removed from being immersed in the game.

[carnage11]

Just a theoretical example of what I wish Mass Effect 2 may provide.

Hmm...I should probably head back to my house then. I was on my way to kill you and steal your copy, but never mind now. :o

[Wolvie]

I learned to love auto-saves since it first saved me the hassle of finding a save point. And it saves me the frustration of having to re-play whole sections of a game over and over due to not being able to get to a save point.

If a game saves with every major event and mission/quest completion, they did it right. Anything else is fail... like in SH:H.

[boratika]

With Chinese noodle disregard? :p

Wonton:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b7/Wonton_1.JPG/260px-Wonton_1.JPG

[muddi900]

For consloes: yes
For PC: No. F5 quick save FTW!!!

[TheKeck]

With Chinese noodle disregard? :p

Autosaves are great except for when they auto save you at 1 health and no ammo.
WANTON! WANTON! :o

D'oh.

[TheKeck]

The former.
Whew! I can live in peace and happiness once more. :)

[Victorvonviolence]

Autosaves are a must. Do you remember having to save it file individually, keep track of all of them and name them? I always hated that. I far prefer having autosave with the option to make your own save.

Saying that, there have been times where autosave has crippled me, particularly in survival horror when I run into an area after squandering health or in rpgs where I missed something important in an area previous.

[National Kato]

64 - 3 currently in favor of Yea. Looks like Goronmon got his answer. :D

[Deadend]

I like having checkpoints, not autosaves based on time, but checkpoints based on actions. I despise the idea that games are built where you would want to go and load an old save because you did it wrong.

I really despise quick saves and the games that are built around the concept of a quicksave. You can tell what games there are, as you can suddenly go from 100% life to dead.

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/issues/issue_84/475-Killjoy

Relevant article from The Escapist, that applies true to all genres.

Quicksaves are just a game designers concession that the game in question has some shitty mechanics.

[muddi900]

Well most people here were really angry at the Dead Rising saving mechanism and either you're a fan of "classic" Resident Evil or RE4, you're never a fan of the typewriter save. Everybody thinks that quicksaving is lazy, but when Japanese developers want to make saving a part of the game itself, everyone throws a hissy fit.

[TheKeck]

Quicksaves are just a game designers concession that the game in question has some shitty mechanics.
Or maybe, just maybe... it's a game designers way of GIVING ME EXACTLY WHAT I WANT! :mad:

[menage]

I don't mind auto saves, but one slot saves got to go.

One buggy screw up and days are lost.

I get it would have a negative impact on a Fable (consequence can be undone), but that should mean a 100% bugfree, and that isn't the case right there.

[KingGorilla]

I really despise quick saves and the games that are built around the concept of a quicksave. You can tell what games there are, as you can suddenly go from 100% life to dead.

Quicksaves are just a game designers concession that the game in question has some shitty mechanics.

I find it more as acknowledgement that I ama person. The phone rings, I lose track of time and need to get to work. F5 and I am all set.

I do not want checkpoints because designers have no fucking clue where to place them. If that is my only option, fuck having to replay segments of a game just because the programmers were too lazy to let me save anywhere. This gets to how designers are clueless when it comes to what gamers want (saves, controller mapping). The solution is just give me the control to do what I please, and we are all better for it.

And anyone with Stockholm Syndrome for how Resident Evil saves needs to be lobotomized and castrated. Well half of that seems to have already taken place.

[Lithium Flower]

Autosaves are fine if they aren't the only saving option. Assassin's Creed got annoying with that mechanic. Secondly, there must be a way to name/number your saves. It was sorely missing from The Witcher which meant two people couldn't play at the same time without sooner or later one overriding the other's save.

Save points are pure evil. I was recently replaying Soul Reaver 2 and its mad annoying that you can't save at will! What blithering idiot came up with the idea of a save point as opposed to save at will? He needs to be beaten up by an angry mob.

Quicksaves are like waffles! Pure awesome!

Manual saves are indispensable!

[DangerousDaze]

Some games (like Dead Space) auto-save in memory before difficult sections so you don't have to go too far back if and when you die, but they're lost when you exit. I like persistent auto-saves as well as manual saves.

I'd obviously prefer full quick save/load support in both PC AND console games. Now that hard disks are prevalent in the console area there's no reason why that shouldn't be the case.

[Vyzov]

I'm not a big fan of Auto-Saves. I much prefer quicksaves as when I save, it's usually because I'm about to do something very stupid, that you really shouldn't try, just to see how it turns out. If I don't get killed, I'll continue going even if I say, waster all my ammo or got really badly hurt or my forces decimated. I only use saves to prevent death, not unfavourable outcomes. (Well, death is unfavourable but I think you know what I mean)

Auto-Save has a bad habit of really fucking me over sometimes. I've never fucked myself over with a quicksave.

[Johan]

I don't actually play the games, I just continually save.

I like auto-save/quick-save, but not if it saves over previous files. That can cause problems.

[maharahaj]

Save points are pure evil. I was recently replaying Soul Reaver 2 and its mad annoying that you can't save at will!

Oh shit! I remember that game, and not finishing it because of a complete lack of save points. I got about half way through the game.

I was playing for an hour or so one day when a friend came over to hang out. I told him I was going to play until I found a save point, he looked at the screen and having beat the game himself already, told me the next one was another 2+ hours away. I powered down my system and uninstalled the next day.

[carnage11]

Some games (like Dead Space) auto-save in memory before difficult sections so you don't have to go too far back if and when you die, but they're lost when you exit. I like persistent auto-saves as well as manual saves.

I'd obviously prefer full quick save/load support in both PC AND console games. Now that hard disks are prevalent in the console area there's no reason why that shouldn't be the case.

Sometimes that sucks, because you'll see the little auto-save notification pop up and know that something big is going to happen almost like a mini spoiler. A game like Dead Space is probably not good with that, since you want to be surprised and all.

Autosaves are a must. Do you remember having to save it file individually, keep track of all of them and name them? I always hated that. I far prefer having autosave with the option to make your own save.
Yeah I remember the good ol' days. If you took a break from your game for a few days, you'd go back and look at whatever you called the save and would just be clueless. I always had trouble making a good name for a save, especially when there was a character limit. I wanna write a paragraph about what's going on, but I have to sum it all up in 2 words.

[TheKeck]

Sometimes that sucks, because you'll see the little auto-save notification pop up and know that something big is going to happen almost like a mini spoiler. A game like Dead Space is probably not good with that, since you want to be surprised and all.


Yeah I remember the good ol' days. If you took a break from your game for a few days, you'd go back and look at whatever you called the save and would just be clueless. I always had trouble making a good name for a save, especially when there was a character limit. I wanna write a paragraph about what's going on, but I have to sum it all up in 2 words.

I would just always use a number system so I know which was the most recent. ;)

[DangerousDaze]

Sometimes that sucks, because you'll see the little auto-save notification pop up and know that something big is going to happen almost like a mini spoiler. A game like Dead Space is probably not good with that, since you want to be surprised and all.

I agree. Luckily with Dead Space there's no indication that you've passed such a point. You only realise it when you die and start back there. :)

[Goronmon]

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/issues/issue_84/475-KilljoyI hadn't read that before. The Escapist really does kick ass.

[KingGorilla]

I just had flashbacks to the fucking random encounters in BGII. Fucking trolls.

That is less a matter of saving, and more about how games like to use death as a teaching tool.

[ClannerDelta]

Sometimes that sucks, because you'll see the little auto-save notification pop up and know that something big is going to happen almost like a mini spoiler. A game like Dead Space is probably not good with that, since you want to be surprised and all.

If it's done right, you wont know. From what I've heard, Dead Space does it like Lost Odyssey. It saves it, but you don't get a notification.

[Schnoogs]

Totally depends on the game...bad poll....needed a 3rd option

[ClannerDelta]

Totally depends on the game...bad poll....needed a 3rd option

I disagree. Every game type can benefit from an intelligently implemented Auto-save.

Of course, that assumes competence. So maybe the 3rd option could be. "Only if the company isn't retarded."

[DangerousDaze]

From what I've heard, Dead Space does it like Lost Odyssey. It saves it, but you don't get a notification.
That's right (as I said three posts up ;) ).

The thing about the notification is that you have to display one if you're writing to external media like a disk or a memory card. This is to prevent corruption by prompting the player not to switch off during such moments. However, games that store save points purely in memory obviously don't have to display such a message. The downside is that if you switch off before getting past the tricky part and saving you will lose that convenient save point and go back to the last one you physically saved.

[Deadend]

I just had flashbacks to the fucking random encounters in BGII. Fucking trolls.

That is less a matter of saving, and more about how games like to use death as a teaching tool.

Yep, that is what the article I linked to was about.

I think Games should be built assuming quicksaves and quickloads are NOT being used. Thinking about it, it's not so much quicksaves I hate, but quickloads.

I'd also rather have games have quitsaves than quicksaves. As if I need to go do something else, BAM! Done and Out.

What I want are in-menory saves to take me back just a little bit, or for games to be like Fable 2 in that the play won't die from a shit situation, just get roughed up and have a nasty scar. Sudden death in games comes from old arcade games designed to take your money. Modern games are owned and thus don't NEED to suddenly kill the player.

Games should be built where the ONLY time I would even think about loading a save game and not just hit 'continue' is because I want to play a particular scenario over again, meaning not with my current character, but with the one from before.

[Goronmon]

Totally depends on the game...bad poll....needed a 3rd optionI dislike polls that provide an extra, vague option. I'd rather it be more definitive. No one forces you to pick one or the other. You are more than welcome to ignore the poll and post your opinion on the subject.

[KingGorilla]

Thw Witcher had a solution that was simultaneously elegant and sloppy. Each Auto Save, at a significant point, was a hard save that you could return to. You still had quick save and menue save options. But the effect was that you never had to worry about not having saved in the last hour or so because you just have a rolling auto-save like Oblivion or Fallout. Unfortunately, you also had this gigantic list of saved by the end of the play through, and I can only wonder at the footprint that leaves.

[Xerxes]

Fuck autosave only games. Piece of shit system has made me restart shitty levels countless times cause of shitty save points.

[Purple Santa]

Fuck autosave only games. Piece of shit system has made me restart shitty levels countless times cause of shitty save points.

You were playing Superman 64 weren't you? Didn't Spigot take that copy from you? :p

[Wasson_]

auto save is great, but technically its the auto save function that ruined my game in Stalker Clear Skies, forcing me to postpone going at-it again for a while.

[Xerxes]

Having nothing but a autosave system leaves the user subject to being stuck somewhere they didn't want to be. Like dying. I don't want to play through a whole fucking level cause your game thought it was ok to save with a bomb blowing up in my face.

[TheKeck]

What game are you playing Xerxes? I'm just dying to know. :p

[TheEpicOfTyler]

I recall an auto-save in one of the Tomb Raider games on the PS1 where I was looping falling to my death over and over and over and over and over and over.... Lost days worth of playing a buggy horrible game on that one.

Also had a similar experience in Halo 3 with a Warthog that was airborne with too much momentum to avoid going over the edge of that cliff over and over. Lost about 30 minutes there.

Auto-saves are good when done well.

[KingGorilla]

What game are you playing Xerxes? I'm just dying to know. :p

As PC gaming gods, we tend to not worry about such trifles. One day the console gaming apes may gain knowledge of F5.

[Thanasimos]

Yay for autosave! except when I accidentally killed a villager in Oblivion, and arn around building a bounty of some thousands of gold pieces and had to run around with guards trailing me while I stole everything in sight and ran halfway across the map to a fence, whom the guards killed as soon as he finished buying things from me, and then I ran halfway across the map to a leader of the thieves' guild to buy my bounty off. It took three hours, and at the end I was just doing it to prove that I could, because it would be a hassle to have one of my fences dead.

I lost the three hours of play prior to that, too, as a result.

[Xerxes]

What game are you playing Xerxes? I'm just dying to know. :p

Condemned 2.

[KingGorilla]

There are bigger problems in Condemned 2 than the save system, like a lack of direction, focus, and a knowledge of what is fun.

[roboninja]

Sure, I like auto-saves there to back me up, but what I really like are quick saves, which I love to ABUSE with wonton disregard.

I always knew you were cool.

[Mdot]

Auto-Save with the option to save anywhere yourself ala Fallout 3.

[menage]

I'm just playing Zelda Phantom Hourglass since a week or 2 but man does this game need a save anywhere function. The DS is a portable right, so when I'm on the train I should be able to quit and continue at least on the same floor of that stupid Ocean Kings temple. What the fuck where they thinking.

It's almost a gamebreaker for me.

[Dark Prince]

Auto-saves work for the most part depending upon how well its implemented in the game. I can only hope that whenever I play a new game that it doesn't take me longer then necessary to reach that next checkpoint/auto-save point before losing my mind.

[Xerxes]

There are bigger problems in Condemned 2 than the save system, like a lack of direction, focus, and a knowledge of what is fun.

Fun? :confused:

[Purple Santa]

I'm just playing Zelda Phantom Hourglass since a week or 2 but man does this game need a save anywhere function. The DS is a portable right, so when I'm on the train I should be able to quit and continue at least on the same floor of that stupid Ocean Kings temple. What the fuck where they thinking.

It's almost a gamebreaker for me.

The fanatics will tell you to close the DS to put it in sleep mode and keep it charged so it won't run out of battery power. Defeats the purpose of being "portable" but that's what they would say to defend the title. And call you a wimp for not being able to finish the levels fast enough ;)

[Xerxes]

The fanatics will tell you to close the DS to put it in sleep mode and keep it charged so it won't run out of battery power. Defeats the purpose of being "portable" but that's what they would say to defend the title. And call you a wimp for not being able to finish the levels fast enough ;)

In one way I found my PSP the ultimate option.

[TheKeck]

I always knew you were cool.
I guess this is me. -> :cool:

:p

[RandoM51]

Autosave rocks, particularly in era of games and or platforms that randomly lockup/die.

[KingGorilla]

Autosave rocks, particularly in era of games and or platforms that randomly lockup/die.

More often than not when the auto save kicks in.

[Narradisall]

Yay

Having to retrek hours of gameplay because you were so immensed in the game you forgot to press save every 20 mins or so is a fucking game killer.

[BlackPete]

Fallout 3 has a decent autosave system where it kicks in every time you change locations. However, there were times that I'd just stay outdoors just to roam around and open up new locations that I'd forget to save for a couple of hours... only to run into a hostile army. D'oh!

A combination of autosave (on location changes AND every 5-10 mins) + manual saves should be enough I think.

[Libuke]

More often than not when the auto save kicks in.

I can't remember who said it first but in the Witcher they kept having periodic crashes until they turned auto save off. I've been having the same problem and haven't had a crash since I turned auto save off. Sucks one the one hand cause the I like the auto save system the Witcher was employing with the rotating thing and such. It has caused me to save a lot more often for fear of not having a save to go back to.

The quicksave sucks though I hate quicksaves that make a new save every time. Clutters everything up. They should implement a rotating quick save thing in games too.

[RandoM51]

The Witcher was a special case, mainly because the save/load mechanic was rather archaic---BROKEN---at release.

If you crash frequently when other games save/load, I suggest you pull the creative labs soundcard out of your system and replace it with something that plays better with other cards on the BUS.