Blizzard: Want cross-game chat? Fork over your privacy.

[J Arcane]

Blizzard apparently unveiled their new "Real ID" system for the new Battle.net today: http://us.battle.net/realid/faq.html

Basically, it's opt-in Facebook for Blizzard games, but there's a catch to that opt-in part:

Can I use features such as cross-game chat, Rich Presence, or Broadcasts if I do not use Real ID?

Features such as cross-game chat, World of Warcraft cross-realm and cross-faction chat, Broadcast messages, and Rich Presence are only available if you use Real ID.

So in order to use the cross game functions, you have to be willing to give out your real identity over the internet.

[violent]

Not a big deal in my opinion.

[Khrymsyn]

As long as they are not publishing age, gender, address, phone, soc...
Ummm... Good?
It's about time people are forced not to be annoying assholes that get to hide behind internet handles. Hopefully the next step is when Blizzard bans a bunch of cheaters, they publish the list of RealIDs.

(yes, I understand the irony of this post. =) )

[J Arcane]

I do not use my real identity publicly over the internet. Outside of private forms for orders placed and the like, I know of only a handful of people I have ever known over the Internet who knew my real name, most of them because I knew them from real life. I generally try to avoid revealing too much info about my personal life as well.

It's not anyone's business, and I have been subject to online harassment in the past that I possess no doubt could've extended to real life if that information was available. Add to that the ever growing threat of identity theft, and in my view it would be foolish of me to treat the matter otherwise.

I have never encountered a single game in my life where this policy was a problem. Until now.

Blizzard can get bent, but of course they'll get away with it anyway, because they're Blizzard.

Cataclysm was going to be an automatic purchase for me. I don't think it will be that anymore.

[cp#]

I have been subject to online harassment in the past

Well to be fair you're kind of a dick

:D

[Panthera]

I can't really back Blizzard on this one. Facebook integration is fine, but I should not have to reveal all my real info to add someone to a friends list.

edit: Though I guess you could just make a fake facebook account intended for battle.net.

[JayVe]

Breaking away at some level of anonymity will help prevent people from turning into dickwads.

http://www.penny-arcade.com/docs/internetdickwad.jpg

Blizzard's game... their rules.

[Ink Asylum]

Cataclysm was going to be an automatic purchase for me. I don't think it will be that anymore.

You don't have to have cross game/realm/etc chat if you don't want to use RealID. None of those are in your WoW experience now so you won't lose anything you currently have and can still enjoy Cataclysm.

[J Arcane]

You don't have to have cross game/realm/etc chat if you don't want to use RealID. None of those are in your WoW experience now so you won't lose anything you currently have and can still enjoy Cataclysm.
I don't like the practice of holding game features hostage in exchange for player identities. It smacks of crooked thinking, and I don't wish to support a company financially that would think this at all a good idea.

[cp#]

You don't have to have cross game/realm/etc chat if you don't want to use RealID. None of those are in your WoW experience now so you won't lose anything you currently have and can still enjoy Cataclysm.

That's no fun. How is J going to stick it to the man?

I don't like the practice of holding game features hostage in exchange for player identities. It smacks of crooked thinking, and I don't wish to support a company financially that would think this at all a good idea.

nm, valid argument and agreed

[Ink Asylum]

Blizzard already has your identity if you're paying for their game. This isn't some scheme to get more personal information from you.

[J Arcane]

Blizzard already has your identity if you're paying for their game. This isn't some scheme to get more personal information from you.
And that information is ostensibly private.

In light of this event, however, I have one less reason to trust that to remain the status quo.

[violent]

I don't like the practice of holding game features hostage in exchange for player identities. It smacks of crooked thinking, and I don't wish to support a company financially that would think this at all a good idea.

So you're not going to buy it out of principle? You realize how many millions of people are going to buy Cataclysm? Your protest will be nothing more than a fart in the wind that never even crosses the noses of those responsible. Use your head, man.

[Ink Asylum]

And that information is ostensibly private.

In light of this event, however, I have one less reason to trust that to remain the status quo.

Yup, it's private, and remains private unless you opt-in! What's so evil about that? They are providing a feature with a condition for people who may want it, and those who don't never have to use it.

[J Arcane]

So you're not going to buy it out of principle? You realize how many millions of people are going to buy Cataclysm? Your protest will be nothing more than a fart in the wind that never even crosses the noses of those responsible. Use your head, man.
Oh for fuck's sake, haven't we been over this point a million bloody times on this forum now?

I'm gonna restate the same response I always give, only this time in much bigger font because it still hasn't sunk in:

I DON'T GIVE A FUCK, IT'S MY FUCKING MONEY, I DECIDE WHERE IT GOES AND WHO IT SUPPORTS.

[violent]

Oh for fuck's sake, haven't we been over this point a million bloody times on this forum now?

I'm gonna restate the same response I always give, only this time in much bigger font because it still hasn't sunk in:

I DON'T GIVE A FUCK, IT'S MY FUCKING MONEY, I DECIDE WHERE IT GOES AND WHO IT SUPPORTS.

Then please, do so and shut the fuck up about it already. If we didn't have to listen to your bitching in 10 different threads, we wouldn't have to discuss it with you 10 different times.

[J Arcane]

Then please, do so and shut the fuck up about it already. If we didn't have to listen to your bitching in 10 different threads, we wouldn't have to discuss it with you 10 different times.
I'm sorry you don't like the things I have to say, but unless you intend to ban me for them, I'm going to continue to exercise my ability to say them, so I suggest you consider your own argument for yourself as well.

You don't have to read the thread or the post if you don't want to. Your point swings both ways.

[Ink Asylum]

Oh for fuck's sake, haven't we been over this point a million bloody times on this forum now?

I'm gonna restate the same response I always give, only this time in much bigger font because it still hasn't sunk in:

I DON'T GIVE A FUCK, IT'S MY FUCKING MONEY, I DECIDE WHERE IT GOES AND WHO IT SUPPORTS.

Go the fuck ahead. But if you're going to present your reasoning on a public forum and it's bogus we're going to pick it apart.

I'm sorry you don't like the things I have to say, but unless you intend to ban me for them, I'm going to continue to exercise my ability to say them, so I suggest you consider your own argument for yourself as well.

You don't have to read the thread or the post if you don't want to. Your point swings both ways.

I'm sorry you don't like what we have to say in response, but we have the same right to say it as you do. You don't have to read our replies or respond to them. You post a thread and the forum takes it from there, you don't own it and control all content within.

[J Arcane]

Go the fuck ahead. But if you're going to present your reasoning on a public forum and it's bogus we're going to pick it apart.

It's not "bogus", you just don't give a fuck about your privacy. I'm sorry I don't follow in the same footsteps as the Facebook generation, but this shit disturbs me, and a lot of other people besides, and just because they don't agree with such a laissez-faire approach to one's personal details doesn't make them "bogus" either.

[kyrieee]

So in order to use the cross game functions, you have to be willing to give out your real identity over the internet.

What the hell is the point of this? Why would I need to give random people online access to my facebook profile just to get all the ingame IM functionality they offer? They're completely unrelated and should stay that way.

If you want to give out your personal info then that should be your choice. Yes I realize you don't have to agree to this (at least for now) but why would they withhold functionality like that? I've had a lot of people on my friends list in Blizzard games, very few of whom I'd like to give my personal details to.

[violent]

If you're gonna bitch about something that truly doesn't have to affect anyone but those who are willing, don't bitch when someone questions the validity of your statement. Just stop bitching entirely, how about that?

[J Arcane]

What the hell is the point of this? Why would I need to give random people online access to my facebook profile just to get all the ingame IM functionality they offer? They're completely unrelated and should stay that way.

If you want to give out your personal info then that should be your choice. Yes I realize you don't have to agree to this (at least for now) but why would they withhold functionality like that? I've had a lot of people on my friends list in Blizzard games, very few of whom I'd like to give my personal details to.
Thank you for your post.

[Ink Asylum]

It's not "bogus", you just don't give a fuck about your privacy. I'm sorry I don't follow in the same footsteps as the Facebook generation, but this shit disturbs me, and a lot of other people besides, and just because they don't agree with such a laissez-faire approach to one's personal details doesn't make them "bogus" either.

You don't know how much I value my privacy as I haven't said whether or not I'll be joining this service. However, it's my choice to do it and Blizzard will not reveal my real name without my consent. Every user is free to decide what level of privacy they're comfortable with. If they value privacy more than they do cross-game chat they can make that decision.

You simply can't compare it to Facebook. They routinely roll out privacy changes that are opt-out, and their privacy settings pages are obtuse and obscure. They want to get as much information out of you as possible so they can monetize it. That isn't what Blizzard's doing.

So yes, your arguments and comparisons are bogus.

[Adam Blue]

So you're not going to buy it out of principle? You realize how many millions of people are going to buy Cataclysm? Your protest will be nothing more than a fart in the wind that never even crosses the noses of those responsible. Use your head, man.

Where were you backing me up when I get pummeled for making this point?

That Activision/Bungie thread was a bunch of this.

I've always thought if you feel so strongly to prove a point to yourself, take it a step further and try to make a change in the real-world.

As for identity, I've been on the 'net for a long time with all my details out there. My name is Adam Blue. I have a bank account (so my shit is online). If shits gonna happen, it's gonna happen. Some are lucky, others are not.

EDIT: And it gets better...

I'm sorry you don't like the things I have to say, but unless you intend to ban me for them, I'm going to continue to exercise my ability to say them, so I suggest you consider your own argument for yourself as well.

You don't have to read the thread or the post if you don't want to. Your point swings both ways.

Didn't you give me a bunch of shit (you and others telling me I can no longer post) because I would make a point that you absolutely didn't agree with? I think I even told Track he'd have to ban me if he wants me to shut it. Then I guess now you understand that this is a forum and we can discuss what we want.

[Ink Asylum]

What the hell is the point of this? Why would I need to give random people online access to my facebook profile just to get all the ingame IM functionality they offer? They're completely unrelated and should stay that way.

As far as I know it has no connection to Facebook. This a completely Blizzard-run service with no information sharing with Facebook. J Arcane was comparing the service to Facebook, there is no official connection.

[Savok]

Sokath, his eyes uncovered.

If you want to give out your personal info then that should be your choice. Yes I realize you don't have to agree to this (at least for now) but why would they withhold functionality like that? I've had a lot of people on my friends list in Blizzard games, very few of whom I'd like to give my personal details to.
Exactly, the whole thing is insane and pointless from a user perspective.

Begs the question though, why? What do they gain? Loophole for selling information to marketing companies?

[Hotcod]

nope, they ARE linking to facebook but no one knows exactly what is going on and how that will work. The impression that i've gotten is that the cross over will only be with b-net friends who you also have as facebook friends, no random people are going to be able to get any of that kind of information simply from being friends with you and your real ID. The need for this comes across more as part of a given structural set up rather than blizzard trying to expose your details to every one on your freinds list. Even if blizard is, like facebook, trying to use your information to make money it's self defeating to not have as much or as little privacy between users as the users want.

In other words before any one jumps off the deep end like J has we need more information on exactly how it's all working and why it's working like that.

[J Arcane]

There are a number of other services that offer many of the same features without this requirement, so it's hardly any kind of practical consideration.

[Savok]

You know at some point soon you'll be able to click a button and get someone's entire meaningless life, from their birthday to their activities to how many bowel movements they've had that day. We will officially be drowning in pointless information... well unless you're an identity thief, and they're going to become such a problem you'll have to give a vial of blood just to sign up to a recipe mailing list to prove you are who you say you are.

[Hotcod]

oh i'm not saying that they couldn't do it just that it's likely that it's easier for them to just say "you have to have a real id to plug in to these new systems" then have 2 different levels of interaction with them. I also have no doubt that blizzard will put some of the information they can gather that way to work but if you already use facebook, hell if you use google or pretty much any of the major search engines, then you must be some what happy with the idea of the provide using your details to make money.

What seem's to be your main issue is how much information will be available to other users for which we have no idea yet but, like i said, no form of privacy protection from user to user would be utterly self defeating for the system.

I'm not saying that it's not going to be as bad as you feel it is, i just don't think we know enough about how it's all going to work to make any hard judgements about that just yet.

[Narradisall]

Meh, it's opt in.

I don't get why they need the info as J Arcane says, there are other services like Live that offer cross game chat, unless its a techinical issue.

But, its not like random strangers will be getting your info, and all the companies generally have it anyway. So I hardly see it as some evil Machievellian scheme.

I have no use for the service. So, meh.

[violent]

Where were you backing me up when I get pummeled for making this point?

That Activision/Bungie thread was a bunch of this.

I've always thought if you feel so strongly to prove a point to yourself, take it a step further and try to make a change in the real-world.

Must have missed it. Some arguments are best fought alone sometimes I think. In regards to this specific story though, I can understand someone fighting against something that doesn't affect them because they don't believe in the principal. But in a world full of so much shit, how one lands on defending users from a billion dollar entertainment company is beyond me. Fact is, all the features being "withheld" are still available online for free. I see no reason to battle this. Frankly, it seems like a battle for the bored or misguided.

[Ink Asylum]

There was no mention of Facebook on the pages J Arcane linked to. Some additional web searching makes me believe that Facebook integration will be an additional level of opt-in service. When you make your RealID you can give the game permission to look for Facebook friends you have that might also have RealIDs so you can send them friend requests.

If you don't have a Facebook ID I believe you can still have a RealID, and if you have both you can connect to other RealIDs without ever attaching your RealID to your Facebook ID. Correct me if I'm wrong on that.

I have no problem with opt-in services that surrender your privacy, as long as it's all laid out up front what will be happening, allowing each user to make their decision.

[bstiff]

You don't know how much I value my privacy as I haven't said whether or not I'll be joining this service. However, it's my choice to do it and Blizzard will not reveal my real name without my consent. Every user is free to decide what level of privacy they're comfortable with. If they value privacy more than they do cross-game chat they can make that decision.

You simply can't compare it to Facebook. They routinely roll out privacy changes that are opt-out, and their privacy settings pages are obtuse and obscure. They want to get as much information out of you as possible so they can monetize it. That isn't what Blizzard's doing.

So yes, your arguments and comparisons are bogus.

So if you agree to this, your first and last name show up on your friend's friend list so they can find you. I don't like giving out my name online but if it's someone I know irl ok. The second part is that anyone on their friends list can also see your name. That's the part I don't like. I may know my friend, but Im pretty sure I don't know everyone he does. Why should they need to see my name? Could they use some other kind of identifier other than a person's name or account name?

[Hotcod]

Everything I've read has been rather confusing so far which is why I'm waiting to find out what's going on. The simple fact is that if you worry about your details being used by service providers you may as well stop using the internet as it's the current back bone, personally I'm fine, up to a point, with that. It's user to user privacy that is my main issue, if the real ID forces me to show details I don't want to show to other users than I won't use it but if it has protections in place I'm fine. So long as I know what is going on and what control and rights I have I'm fine... that last point is why I'm still a little iffy on facebook but facebook is to overtly useful for me that I'll carrying on using it while keeping my self informed in the hopes they don't cross a line I can't agree with.

[RandoM51]

Good. I look forward to the day when 'net interactions entail the same consequences as normal interactions.

If you don't want people to know who you are don't associate with them virtually any more than you would in real life.

[J Arcane]

So if you agree to this, your first and last name show up on your friend's friend list so they can find you. I don't like giving out my name online but if it's someone I know irl ok. The second part is that anyone on their friends list can also see your name. That's the part I don't like. I may know my friend, but Im pretty sure I don't know everyone he does. Why should they need to see my name? Could they use some other kind of identifier other than a person's name or account name?
Not to mention that, in my experience with many users of Facebook and the like, I don't trust other people's judgement when it comes to who they friend, as people will friend any random douchebag who asks and may not be at all trustworthy.

[Ink Asylum]

I was once a member of an online, pay-to-join forum where you couldn't get an account unless you were willing to have your real name be used on your posts. No one was anonymous. This wasn't a grab for personal information, but the people who ran the forum believed that absent anonymity people would be more civil and reasonable and careful with their words. From what I experienced it worked.

[Hemalin]

Just put in a fake name. Problem solved.

Looks like Dick Copperton will be making his return to Battle.net.

[Jackel]

Good. I look forward to the day when 'net interactions entail the same consequences as normal interactions.

If you don't want people to know who you are don't associate with them virtually any more than you would in real life.

Agreed. I think if you want to know someone period, get to know them.

[Goronmon]

Not to mention that, in my experience with many users of Facebook and the like, I don't trust other people's judgement when it comes to who they friend, as people will friend any random douchebag who asks and may not be at all trustworthy.
So? People you don't know can see that someone they know has a friend named "J Arcane". What's the big deal? I don't really see how that really invades your privacy.

And if people who you have on your friends list have friends who you are firmly against having any clue of your possible existence...maybe you shouldn't have them on your friends list?

[violent]

So? People you don't know can see that someone they know has a friend named "J Arcane". What's the big deal? I don't really see how that really invades your privacy.

And if people who you have on your friends list have friends who you are firmly against having any clue of your possible existence...maybe you shouldn't have them on your friends list?

His real name is David Berkowitz.

[Ten19]

Opt-in with details up front of how it works? No problem. Also, it's just my name. If I want to hide behind a mask of anonymity so I can be a complete asshole to other people without any regards for the social repercussions, I just won't sign into my Real ID. Also, what they're offering isn't that revolutionary. Most people playing WoW and SC2 will be on Steam, and I can just see what they're doing there.

[Ghostbear]

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g302/ghostbear1/onoz.gif

[Squidbot]

The clue is in the name.

[Jackel]

Free (private alternatives) for you J include: Steam, X-fire, MSN, AIM, etc, etc.

All include cross game chat. You simply have to alt tab out of your game.

[violent]

X-fire uses an overlay so alt-tab isn't even necessary.

[Mot Wakorb]

X-fire uses an overlay so alt-tab isn't even necessary.

I hear Steam does this as well!

[Jackel]

Oh. and the Raptr client has an in-game overlay too now.

[cp#]

http://imgur.com/kJ2A2.gif

[Disgustipated]

Well to be fair you're kind of a dick

:D

Agreed. :cool:

[Disgustipated]

Oh for fuck's sake, haven't we been over this point a million bloody times on this forum now?

I'm gonna restate the same response I always give, only this time in much bigger font because it still hasn't sunk in:

I DON'T GIVE A FUCK, IT'S MY FUCKING MONEY, I DECIDE WHERE IT GOES AND WHO IT SUPPORTS.

You're such a whiny, egocentric pussy. Grow up. :cool:

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_7E-M6s5XewQ/SyEuQe0Fr5I/AAAAAAAAADk/M_wWR5-LlPI/s400/deal+with+it.gif

[violent]

I stopped taking pictures for fear that it will steal a part of my soul and try to buy a boat with it.

[Mike Kelehan]

When you use your real name, there's a different expectation. People know that your putting your real life reputation on the line. I used to hide behind handles when I was a teenager, but when Xbox Live started, I had already been an adult for a while, and decided to just go ahead and use one identity across all aspects of my life. This is me.

[violent]

I'm not afraid of saying my name on the internet. Haywood Jablomey! There, see? No biggie.

[Hawkzombie]

Of note: Activision has stated in the past how worried they are that social networking sites will take a bite out of their profits. No joke (can't remember where the link is, but it was here on CoG)...so this could be their proactive way of ensuring they remain 'on top' by linking to people's social sites.

Another thing is, as was said, make a fake profile. There are tons of those stupid FB games, and I play a few. There are tons of people who are named 'Dwarf Castle Age' or something along those lines or 'Farmvillie Sandy' (I do NOT play Farmville though...I have my dignity :p) So if you really want to use those features without invading your privacy, then make a FB 'game' profile.

I will say, just using FB is an invasion of privacy. There are several features that are 'on' when you sign up or after a change in policy that basically say 'here's my info, feel free to use it how you want for marketing purposes'

There is no real anonymity anymore, especially if you do things online of a 'public' nature, such as networking or even basic communication.


Christopher Hawkins of Edmonton Alberta. *shrugs* Not like it'll do anyone any good. I haven't a penny or credit to my name since I'm an immigrant and it's all under my wife's name. Names aren't some powerful magic that can be used to destroy their bearer anymore. That kind of magic died in the 50s with McCarthyism. :p

[J Arcane]

When you use your real name, there's a different expectation. People know that your putting your real life reputation on the line. I used to hide behind handles when I was a teenager, but when Xbox Live started, I had already been an adult for a while, and decided to just go ahead and use one identity across all aspects of my life. This is me.
And this is me. As much me as any other name I might be known by, and carrying as much, or more, reputation.

The difference is, this one doesn't put my real world safety at risk. A name, and a location, is all you really need anymore to find a person, and that's not a risk I want to take.

The thing I find childish is the increasing naivete which with people approach the internet, while still looking down on those who refuse to share the same rose-colored view of the world and it's consequences.

[Hemalin]

Here you are, the solution to all your problems.
http://www.kleimo.com/random/name.cfm

[Vigil80]

Free (private alternatives) for you J include: Steam, X-fire, MSN, AIM, etc, etc.
This is what I was thinking. Blizzard is going to damn their pretty new bells and whistles to irrelevancy putting them behind arbitrary obstacles. There are many alternatives to get the same kind of functionality that require no commitment of any kind.

That's beside the fact that everything they're trying to implement is just an homage, shall we say, to someone who's already pulled it off, and in a more elegant fashion.

[RandoM51]

If you're going to make up a name, I recommend Don QQuixote. That way everybody on CoG you game with will still know who it is.

[Hemalin]

I was thinking of seeing how many people I could get to name themselves Jamie Madrox.

[Banacek]

Will Sexton

[violent]

Pat McGroyen here.

[Wackman3000]

Nice to meet you Pat, I'm Dixen Normous.

[Hawkzombie]

I was thinking of seeing how many people I could get to name themselves Jamie Madrox.

A worthy notion. Count me in :p

The thing I find childish is the increasing naivete which with people approach the internet, while still looking down on those who refuse to share the same rose-colored view of the world and it's consequences.

The thing is, I don't. I'm careful of where I put my info out there, but I'm also not so paranoid that I don't realize that no matter where I put my info someone will eventually get it. I have always been careful of where I put my info, but phishing sites and the like still get the info and sell it out there.

I bet you could find out everything you wanted to know about yourself simply by searching your name on one of those 'contact old friends' sites...I went and found out I was still living (at the exact address) of my parent's house, making 40k a year, and was 40 years old. Sure, some info was wrong (I'm in Canada now, my wife makes more than that for the two of us, and I'm almost 30)...but the amount right was eerie. And this is stuff that just filters out there.

Every transaction you make, every time you put 'real life' information out there, not just the internet but the real world, someone is wanting it. And given enough time they'll get it. Either through mailing lists or scams. The thing that separates people is those that know and understand this, and take certain precautions, and those who try and hide like hermits in the digital age.

The only way to 100% protect yourself is to use cash, only. Get paid in cash, and leave as little of a paper trail as possible. If you can't do that, chances are there are people out there with your info right now that you don't want to have it.

The thing about this Blizzard thing? It's opt IN, not out. So if you don't want to do it, then don't. I personally won't, but it's not because of the privacy issue. I simply use other ways to contact friends.

[Squidbot]

http://women.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/women/the_way_we_live/article7096105.ece

[Sandman]

Through all of this I'm surprised no one has mentioned the 1 feature I thought everyone would be up in arms about. If you're only supposed to give people you know your real ID why does Blizzard have a friends of friends feature? Once you add someone, everyone on their friends list already gets to see your real ID. For something that is supposed to be private, that's kind of stupid.

[MagGnome]

So you're not going to buy it out of principle? You realize how many millions of people are going to buy Cataclysm? Your protest will be nothing more than a fart in the wind that never even crosses the noses of those responsible. Use your head, man.

How many times do we have to go over this?

Some of us choose to apply our principles to everything, including our game purchases.

I don't see why this concept seems to be so difficult for some to grasp.


Edit - To be clear my above post is not an opinion on this particular issue. I'm just tired of people acting like it's ridiculous to apply ethics to the purchasing of games and other "entertainment".

[Chris_D]

I know of someone who was effectively released from their position due to their personal internet presence. It's something most of us should probably be more mindful of.

[Vigil80]

The real lesson is not to do things you would be afraid of getting linked back to the real you. ;)

[Chris_D]

Indeed, but things that you would think are harmless, and in fact should be, can offend a certain kind of person and leave you out in the cold. As was the case in the example I mentioned. I can completely understand the need to have an online persona where you can express your opinions more freely.

[MagGnome]

If you're going to make up a name, I recommend Don QQuixote. That way everybody on CoG you game with will still know who it is.

Alright, this made me laugh. :D

[TheFlyingOrc]

It's not "bogus", you just don't give a fuck about your privacy. I'm sorry I don't follow in the same footsteps as the Facebook generation, but this shit disturbs me, and a lot of other people besides, and just because they don't agree with such a laissez-faire approach to one's personal details doesn't make them "bogus" either.

Oh yes, heaven forbid that someone on the internet know MY NAME, now they'll be able to...

what, exactly?

[Farsight]

So you're not going to buy it out of principle? You realize how many millions of people are going to buy Cataclysm?

What does that have to do with anything?

If Blizzard required you to post a picture of yourself masturbating while dressed as a Blood Elf in order to play Cataclysm, and still got a million preorders, would that mean anyone objecting to that requirement would have no valid reason to do so?

"Blizzard will be successful anyway, so you should give them your money too" is a bogus argument.

How many times do we have to go over this?

Some of us choose to apply our principles to everything, including our game purchases.

I don't see why this concept seems to be so difficult for some to grasp.

Exactly. "I don't like what company X is doing" sounds like a perfectly valid reason not to give company X money. What better reason do you need? He's just deciding not to opt-in to Cataclysm...

If you don't want people to know who you are don't associate with them virtually any more than you would in real life.

That only works if everyone agree to it. Otherwise the jerks and crooks are still anonymous.

What seems the most bothersome about this is that time has proven Blizzard is completely incompetent when it comes to account security.

It's bad enough to pay the price for foolishly logging in by losing your level 93 Homonculus Poopflinger and all your shiny phalluses and clown outfits... Now people will have their real-world info linked up as well?

That sounds brilliant!

Just don't be surprised if six months from now you go to work and find a Chinese man sitting at your desk...

[violent]

How many times do we have to go over this?

Some of us choose to apply our principles to everything, including our game purchases.

I don't see why this concept seems to be so difficult for some to grasp.


Edit - To be clear my above post is not an opinion on this particular issue. I'm just tired of people acting like it's ridiculous to apply ethics to the purchasing of games and other "entertainment".

I understand the concept of principle just fine but not all principles are necessarily intelligent. I don't blame the man for sticking to his principles, I blame him for having stupid ones.

What does that have to do with anything?

If Blizzard required you to post a picture of yourself masturbating while dressed as a Blood Elf in order to play Cataclysm, and still got a million preorders, would that mean anyone objecting to that requirement would have no valid reason to do so?

"Blizzard will be successful anyway, so you should give them your money too" is a bogus argument.

You miss my point. I'm not saying that he should give his money because they will be successful either way. I'm saying that to change your mind based on an irrelevant factor is ignorant.

[TheFlyingOrc]

http://women.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/women/the_way_we_live/article7096105.ece

haha you read women.timesonline.com

ur a girl, see.

[Exodus]

How many times do we have to go over this?

Some of us choose to apply our principles to everything, including our game purchases.

I don't see why this concept seems to be so difficult for some to grasp.

Ahhh this is a strawman... fine, let's do it right then.

EDITED with actual brain use I promise!

It's stupid to blame all products published by a company for their business practices because it punishes the developer and on top of that, keeps you from enjoying what could be quite a great experience. yes it's your right to do what you will with your money but you make it sound like you're using your 'boycott' to voice your opinion. That you stand up for your beliefs of what is right while you do it.

I've got no problems with your principles. I appreciate that you will stand up like that against bad business practice. I don't want to tell you what to do with your money and frankly don't care. But don't for one second tell us you're right for doing it.

Back on topic.

This is hit or miss. I can see where you're coming from but it's a risk you take being part of a social network like facebook to begin with. If you're afraid of being creeped then be more selective with who you are friends via realID. There's plenty of alternatives for cross chat, personally I'm just going to end up using ventrillo anyway. This realID thing is useless to me.

Other than that I'm fresh out of give a fucks about whether someone wants to know my real name or not.

[MagGnome]

Exactly. "I don't like what company X is doing" sounds like a perfectly valid reason not to give company X money. What better reason do you need? He's just deciding not to opt-in to Cataclysm...

Thank you! Sometimes I feel like an alien from another planet. It's nice to know there are others out there who feel as I do.


You miss my point. I'm not saying that he should give his money because they will be successful either way. I'm saying that to change your mind based on an irrelevant factor is ignorant.

If that is what you meant, then it's fair. I'm just tired of people treating me and others like idiots/morons/whatever just because we don't fork out our money regardless of how we feeling about the companies or policies behind the products.

[Generation ABXY]

I certainly won't condemn people for voting with their dollar. Hell, I wish they did it a lot more (outside of "just entertainment," I mean).

[violent]

If that is what you meant, then it's fair. I'm just tired of people treating me and others like idiots/morons/whatever just because we don't fork out our money regardless of how we feeling about the companies or policies behind the products.

I question the mans principles in this case, not his need to stand behind them. That part I respect.

[TheFlyingOrc]

I question the mans principles in this case, not his need to stand behind them. That part I respect.

I'll add to that the attitude of "because I do not want them to have my private information, I will not buy their products. This makes me a better person than those of you who do not care that they have my information." is pretty ridiculous. But hey! Everybody has to do bullcrap to fool themselves into thinking they are a good person, I guess.

[cp#]

Petty internet argument

[cp#]

Petty internet argument rebuttal

[Lint of Death]

Petty internet argument rebuttal

Why do I get the feeling you're just playing the Devil's advocate?

[Ink Asylum]

Snarky non-sequiter.

[Exodus]

saves time so we can go back to what the thread's about! handing out our real names(or does it have to be?) in order to use cross game chat.

it's kinda silly that you even have to be a friend via realID but I can understand they are just trying to create a battle.net facebook network that's for gamers. I can respect that.

[Savok]

Few things.

If principles didn't require sacrifice then there'd be little point in having them. Saying you're only depriving yourself of enjoyment shows a terrifying level of morale bankruptcy.

You all act like identity thieves and other online predators don't exist, it's remarkable. It's no wonder the UK can't even run an election now, the world's reached critical mass of willful ignorance.

NONE of this answers the question of WHY Blizzard are doing this.

[Ink Asylum]

They'll have your real name. Wow. Takes a whole lot more than that to have your identity stolen.

There's a book delivered to my doorstep that has more information about everyone in my zip code then you're giving away with RealID.

[J Arcane]

They'll have your real name. Wow. Takes a whole lot more than that to have your identity stolen.

Real name and a location is all you really need for someone to find where you live, and from there it gets a lot easier.

[Panthera]

Here you are, the solution to all your problems.
http://www.kleimo.com/random/name.cfm

I swear to god, the name it gave me was 'Gay Swader'.

[SilentScreams]

I may use this, and if they need my real name then big deal. I'm not so careless in my life that somebody could ruin me with just my name and address (although your address doesn't appear in the Real ID information anyway). They're not exactly two hard to obtain pieces of information.

That being said, I don't see these features being particularly useful anyway. I've never felt the need for cross-game chat before, and even if I did there are a million ways for me to talk to my friends in other games/on other servers without Blizzard's help, and I don't really see what the incentive is to use this.

I'm not going to complain about it though. They're not taking away anything that I already have, and they're not forcing me to use these features. If anything, I'll thank them for the option, but say no thanks as I don't need it.

[Ink Asylum]

Real name and a location is all you really need for someone to find where you live, and from there it gets a lot easier.

And someone can pick up a white pages in any city and have all that information for thousands of people.

[Generation ABXY]

If principles didn't require sacrifice then there'd be little point in having them.

Again, a sentiment I agree with and find applicable to more than just this thread.

I swear to god, the name it gave me was 'Gay Swader'.

It is... AWARE. :D

[J Arcane]

And someone can pick up a white pages in any city and have all that information for thousands of people.
I'm not listed in the white pages.

[Deadend]

I did a bit of reading up on the Real ID thing.. it's a stand-alone thing right?

It also is based around the way Blizzard currently does "friends" in their games. I can add ANYONE in my WoW server to my friends list, it doesn't alert them, and it's just their character. Spammers can spam people and such.. if they didn't have mutual consent part to do B-net friends, some spammer could friend whatever the limit is and spam them via the presence stuff. Or someone could get extra stalky by reading my crap.

Having "Real Name" instead of B-net account or whatever character name is because if I am giving a shit enough about what someone is doing across various games.. it's someone I should probably already know the name of, it's not for internet friends but for real friends. I do hope that for Real ID Blizz allows me to change what my "Real Name" is, as I just think it would be Awkward Looking to see my friends full name in the chatbox. As it would just look too formal and there is another dude with my exact same name in my LAN-scene and so if both of us were in a game of SC2.. how would other people tell us apart?

I also don't want to have to use the FB connect part. I like that it's an option, but I don't want to have to use it, and I don't think it's required.

[Farsight]

They'll have your real name. Wow.

You trust Blizzard's security more than I do, then. I will not be the slightest bit surprised if account hackers end up with email and IP address as well. Blizzard's response will likely to suggest you use a SuperAuthenticator.

My account was hacked during a 3-day re-sub trial w/o installing any add-ons. After that, I wouldn't trust Blizzard with my ring size (but you guys can PM me for that!).

NONE of this answers the question of WHY Blizzard are doing this.

Other than because they can?

[Deadend]

You trust Blizzard's security more than I do, then. I will not be the slightest bit surprised if account hackers end up with email and IP address as well. Blizzard's response will likely to suggest you use a SuperAuthenticator.

My account was hacked during a 3-day re-sub trial w/o installing any add-ons. After that, I wouldn't trust Blizzard with my ring size (but you guys can PM me for that!).



Other than because they can?

Cock-ring or Ring Finger?

There is something bad with Blizzard's security. I swear that if WoW was on Xbox 360 or PS3 or Wii and had NO mods and no interface via normal PCs... accounts would still get stolen like mad. I still think that there could be an inside man or two that are just raking in the bucks selling accounts of players.

[Hawkzombie]

I am henceforth know as DARRYL Wingrove

[Farsight]

Cock-ring or Ring Finger?

Do you really want an answer to that? Think long and hard about it...

[Narradisall]

Think long and hard about it...

That was a solid, upright pun. Intentional or not....

[Disgustipated]

Real name and a location is all you really need for someone to find where you live, and from there it gets a lot easier.

As if anyone gives a fuck where you live. But I guess when you act like you do and are condescending and elitist as fuck to people over the 'net, it makes sense that they want to find a guy like you and beat the shit out of them. I suppose in your case the paranoia is justified.

[Savok]

As should you in that case, Riley.

[SilentScreams]

I am henceforth know as DARRYL Wingrove

Hey, I'm Darryl too. Darryl Cheeseman. It was the first name I got, and I'm happy with it!

[Narradisall]

As should you in that case, Riley.

But.... you already know his name?

HE'S DOOMED! DOOMED I TELLS YA!

[MagGnome]

I certainly won't condemn people for voting with their dollar. Hell, I wish they did it a lot more (outside of "just entertainment," I mean).

I try to apply my principles to every aspect of my life, including my purchasing decisions. Then again I'm considered a weirdo. :p


I question the mans principles in this case, not his need to stand behind them. That part I respect.

That's good to hear. You can remain one of my favorite posters on COG after all. ;)


I swear to god, the name it gave me was 'Gay Swader'.

It sounds accurate to me!

[Ink Asylum]

You trust Blizzard's security more than I do, then. I will not be the slightest bit surprised if account hackers end up with email and IP address as well. Blizzard's response will likely to suggest you use a SuperAuthenticator.

My account was hacked during a 3-day re-sub trial w/o installing any add-ons. After that, I wouldn't trust Blizzard with my ring size (but you guys can PM me for that!).

If a hacker can get your e-mail and IP address they would've been able to get your real name, too.

And once again, this is opt-in. If you're that paranoid about someone using your name to steal your identity, don't use the service. You can still play Cataclysm as if Real ID never existed.

WoW has security issues because it's the biggest and most popular MMO ever. Any game with that many subscribers and that much potential profit would be just as, if not more, vulnerable. That's the nature of logging in to a system over the internet. No login system is yet 100% safe, and the more people you have logging in the more likely it is to get hacked.

[MagGnome]

But.... you already know his name?

HE'S DOOMED! DOOMED I TELLS YA!

I even know his last name. It's only a matter of time before I steal Disgustipated's identity. :eek:

[muddi900]

J Arcane has problems communicating his points. The guy has a valid reason, and still nobody is asking why do they need your real name for cross-game chat? What purpose does it serve?

Though the facebook comparison was a little over the top, but facebook wasn't big brother when it started. Now, any website can install a facebook app on your profile without your consent. And those apps have access to all your info, even the info hidden from other users. My point, its a slippery slope and most corporations have a very...disturbing attitude towards consumer privacy. Hell, Eric Schmidt, CEO of one of the biggest companies in the world, basically said; What have you got to hide commie? (http://blogoscoped.com/archive/2009-12-07-n83.html).

[Narradisall]

Erm, Muddi, plenty of people already voiced concerns over that. Some countered with it being a 'nicer' community with names (not that I'm buying thats the reason).

I question why they want it, but I don't see the harm in it. Hell my SC2 Beta shows my tag and my real name right next to it (guessing because its bnet tied in).

Short is, they don't NEED it, but it's a far cry from 1984, its an opt-in, and only your friends will see it.

As for the corporate point, Blizzard already know your name if you have a bnet account. Heck if you played wow or used their DD, they know it. Valve aren't selling peoples names to the highest bidder. You don't see amazon listing it. There's plenty of slipperly slopes to worry about that actually are worth watching, and then there's slopes people are throwing oil on for kicks.

[TrackZero]

Didn't you give me a bunch of shit (you and others telling me I can no longer post) because I would make a point that you absolutely didn't agree with? I think I even told Track he'd have to ban me if he wants me to shut it. Then I guess now you understand that this is a forum and we can discuss what we want.

You know, I believe he did (http://www.colonyofgamers.com/cogforums/showpost.php?p=505521&postcount=78). Also, telling you to STFU (http://www.colonyofgamers.com/cogforums/showpost.php?p=505079&postcount=63) in that thread was kinda enjoyable, but seeing qq (http://www.bluegamer.net/2010/03/08/an-update-on-ubis-drm/) over it made my day. In the end, we're all hypocrites in our posting and what we ask/expect of others. On topic, J brought up something I didn't know, so that's interesting, continuing to argue the same points though, ugh.

[Farsight]

WoW has security issues because it's the biggest and most popular MMO ever. Any game with that many subscribers and that much potential profit would be just as, if not more, vulnerable.

Online banking manages to function without keychain authenticators or every third person losing their life's savings. Amazon and numerous other businesses manage to operate without continually having customers accounts hacked and products sent to thieves.

WoW isn't vulnerable because it's popular. It's vulnerable because Blizzard doesn't know how to secure it. WoW doesn't have security issues because it's popular. It has security issues because it's an easy target.

I've gotten an email similar to this one every day since I created a Battle.net account using my email address:

Recently, the problem of account invasion is getting worse
and worse which cause enormous players’ equipments and virtual currency stolen.
This severely damages the benefits of mass players, also causes our company lose
a lot of customers.
Our company has to adopt some measures
to safeguard our common benefits in order to strengthen the safety of mass
players'accounts, and firmly resist the account to be stolen again.

It goes on from there to try to get the reader to click a disguised web link.

The people who are baffling Blizzard's advanced security measures are too dumb and/or lazy to employ someone who can write in coherent english.

I created a Battle.net account using my email address. Then I downloaded WoW, installed it, typed in my email address once, and clicked "remember it". That's it. Now I'm warned every day that my benefits will be severely damaged! I don't know what that means, but it sure sounds bad!

I don't care if everyone buys Cataclysm - heck, I might have if I still had a working account. I just don't see any problem with people being concerned about a company arbitrarily deciding they know best how much of your personal data should be shared with strangers, especially when that company has a history of incompetence when it comes to keeping data secure to begin with.

And really, how good of a reason do you need to not buy a game? Most people consider, "Meh" a valid reason, but, "I don't like the way this company is treating its customers" isn't?

At any rate, I'd just strongly advise anyone playing WoW to not opt into this system... You better believe I wish I'd given them a fake email account.

[RandoM51]

The only thing about this I find interesting is thinking about how it will affect the three types of females who play online games.

Type #1: The type who takes advantage of being female and turns slobbering-starved-for-female-attention male gamers into an army of abject slaves.

Type #2: The type who abhors such attention.

Type #3: The men/boys who pretend to be Type #1.

Looks like bad news for types 2 and 3.

[Mot Wakorb]

Online banking manages to function without keychain authenticators or every third person losing their life's savings. Amazon and numerous other businesses manage to operate without continually having customers accounts hacked and products sent to thieves.

WoW isn't vulnerable because it's popular. It's vulnerable because Blizzard doesn't know how to secure it. WoW doesn't have security issues because it's popular. It has security issues because it's an easy target.

Sure, the online banking and amazon tends to get phishing e-mails, but neither of those have add-ons that can come from untrusted sources and give you a keylogger. Seems a bit apples and oranges to me in that sense. I've not heard of the account system itself being hacked, I've always heard it was due to stupid people.

[TrackZero]

I created a Battle.net account using my email address. Then I downloaded WoW, installed it, typed in my email address once, and clicked "remember it". That's it. Now I'm warned every day that my benefits will be severely damaged! I don't know what that means, but it sure sounds bad!


Well since WoW is a seperate app, it's more vulnerable than your bank website. Both from add-ons as well as the web browser itself. Lots of accounts get stolen when people leave WoW websites open in their browser to ALT-ESC back to read up on something. Problem is, those sites have ads that are often using vulnerabilities to capture your login data when you first go in. i.e. Never login to WoW if your web browser is still open.

Sorry that sounds convoluted, an example of what I'm saying is if you have wowhead.com open so you can look up quests while you play, often its advertisements will be using exploits to keylog when you actually log in to WoW itself.

[Ink Asylum]

Hacking into bank accounts, especially, is going to attract a lot more real law enforcement attention then sharding someone's purples and selling off their characters. WoW hacking is low risk while still being profitable.

[BigJonno]

Even if I do decide to use this RealId thing, I'll only be giving it out to people I consider friends anyway, people who already know my real name, or could find out just by asking.* Blizzard know my real name, so I'm not giving them any more information than they have already.


*For the record, it's Kilbo Fraggins.

[SilentScreams]

Hey guys...I've just remembered that my XBL profile has had my real name on it for the last 6 years. I'm amazed my life isn't a smoldering wreck already!

Unless of course people in this thread are simply overstating the amount of damage somebody can do with your name. :p

[Narradisall]

Hey guys...I've just remembered that my XBL profile has had my real name on it for the last 6 years. I'm amazed my life isn't a smoldering wreck already!

Unless of course people in this thread are simply overstating the amount of damage somebody can do with your name. :p

*tap tap tap*

You're now wanted in several countries for sexual assault of a lama, donkey and hermit crab.

[Savok]

Probably the most remarkable thing about the rise of MySpace and Facebook, so many people are simply spraying their information around the Internet it's created this kind of herd safety.

The lion's still going to eat one of you, it's just very unlikely to be you specifically.

[Ink Asylum]

Yep. Shockingly, scams and identity theft occurred before the internet. Like regular theft, there are things you can do to increase your safety and stupid things you can avoid doing that lower it, but nothing is certain, and what stops the average person from being a victim is strictly a numbers game.

As long as you stay a bit smarter and more careful than 99% of the population you greatly decrease your appeal to identity thefts. You real name is not going to lower you past that threshold.

[Heretic Machine]

You only have to reveal your first and last name, which I already do on most forums. I'm fine with it as long as it ends there.

[Mot Wakorb]

Probably the most remarkable thing about the rise of MySpace and Facebook, so many people are simply spraying their information around the Internet it's created this kind of herd safety.

The lion's still going to eat one of you, it's just very unlikely to be you specifically.

You'd be amazed - if we just educated people on this sort of thing, I'm willing to bet we can keep some people from doing dumb things - the problem is, the education isn't happening.

[muddi900]

Probably the most remarkable thing about the rise of MySpace and Facebook, so many people are simply spraying their information around the Internet it's created this kind of herd safety.

The lion's still going to eat one of you, it's just very unlikely to be you specifically.

But you gave that information signing up on forums like and web mail and IM. And like those, you could choose which part would be public and which would be private. What Facebook has done in the past few weeks is silently removed all restrictions from the private part. That is fucking scary!

*tap tap tap*

You're now wanted in several countries for sexual assault of a lama, donkey and hermit crab.

OK, this shit is fucking hilarious.

[Savok]

Never trust any of those sites with anything is the rule of thumb, I always fill that stuff with false info or simply ignore it altogether (as I did with MySpace and Facebook, and will do with whatever comes next).

Fronzel Neekburm is my name.

[Serapth]

Hey guys...I've just remembered that my XBL profile has had my real name on it for the last 6 years. I'm amazed my life isn't a smoldering wreck already!

Unless of course people in this thread are simply overstating the amount of damage somebody can do with your name. :p

This mindset is willfully ignorant. My door has been unlocked all day, and I haven't been robbed! Does this not prove that all locks are a waste of time?

There is a legit reason not to share your information online, especially if you participate in a social network. For most identity thefts, you only need a few pieces of information, first and strongest of which are your real name. Other than that, address, date of birth and often mothers maiden name are more than enough. Hell, most people use common passwords, so I say, I hack your email password by using "Forgot my password" forms, I can see your email which may or may not contain valid bank statements, which if you are so lax about security in the first place, probably means using the same password that got me into your email, if not, most passwords can be reset and sent to... your email account.

I see people all the time with public Facebook profiles, including their birthday information and even addresses sometimes. On top of that, they often have their Moms or other family members linked, which frankly they just handed over most of the information required to get a password reset on just about any email website ( or a wow account ).

Finally, having your real name linked to your online activity can be extremely bad from a HR perspective too. If you work for a large sized company or go to a headhunter firm, you WILL be googled. AdamBlue said earlier how he uses his own name for all his activity and even included his face in his profile pick. I hope he realizes everything he has said online can ( and isn't a long shot WILL ) be read by a potential employer.

Now, it could be that you have such a squeaky clean life that this doesn't bother you or it could be that you have very little to have taken, but you are the exception to the rule. Sharing as little public personal information as possible IS security best practices just as locking your door when you go out is home security best practice and you can get away without doing either without any problems 99% of the time. But when that 1% comes around, you are gonna be kicking yourself for being shortsighted.

[Serapth]

Think about it in your day to day life. The next few times think about how much actual information is required to do what you are doing. Next time you call your phone company and want to change your service, think of how much information you need to give them before they are content that its you. Next time you call your credit card in stolen, or want to do a change of address form, or whatever else, think about the amount of security required. The next time you reset a password or sign up for an email service or do something like a facebook account reset, think about the amount of information you need.

Then, after paying attention to how sparse this security actually is, think again about how much information you want to share online.

[Hawkzombie]

I'm still trying to figure out how one sexually assaults a hermit crab...

[J Arcane]

Excellently and intelligently put, Serapth. Thank you.

[Savok]

Thank christ one of us is eloquent :p

[Mot Wakorb]

Think about it in your day to day life. The next few times think about how much actual information is required to do what you are doing. Next time you call your phone company and want to change your service, think of how much information you need to give them before they are content that its you. Next time you call your credit card in stolen, or want to do a change of address form, or whatever else, think about the amount of security required. The next time you reset a password or sign up for an email service or do something like a facebook account reset, think about the amount of information you need.

Then, after paying attention to how sparse this security actually is, think again about how much information you want to share online.

I completely see your point here, but with how public folks are on cell phones and the like these days, this kind of information tends to float about when people walk and talk in malls/stores/streets, yada. Sure, online tends to be more "permanent" if you will, but the risk is everywhere with how people are. At a certain point, no matter how much I could attempt to hide online, I'm sort of screwed as part of what I do for a living is public record.

To me, sharing part of my data is okay, and for how much that's being asked for with this, I don't know that it's enough of a big deal to me.

[J Arcane]

Thank christ one of us is eloquent :p
I can be eloquent, I just get sort of frustrated when I'm being dogpiled needlessly and lose my cool.

The only thing I would add to Serapth post however, is there's more to it than just identity theft. People in the past have been harmed, harrassed, or otherwise been subject to physical ill treatment in real life as a result of internet events, and that sort of thing gets a lot harder when people don't know who you are.

I'm just not interested in opening myself up to that, I don't trust people as a rule, and you never know when that jackoff troll playing Internet Tough Guy will be the one guy in 10,000 to actually follow up on it.

[Mot Wakorb]

I'm just not interested in opening myself up to that, I don't trust people as a rule, and you never know when that jackoff troll playing Internet Tough Guy will be the one guy in 10,000 to actually follow up on it.

I get what you're saying, however, it seems a bit paranoid at times when you do rifle on the same thing quite often. It's no dig, just an observation.

[J Arcane]

I get what you're saying, however, it seems a bit paranoid at times when you do rifle on the same thing quite often. It's no dig, just an observation.
I won't deny to being a little bit paranoid, but so far in my life it's served me very well. I've only encountered three incidents of personal fraud or other such things in my life, one was a real life shop, the other two were WoW account thefts. These days it seems like that's a pretty good record.

This is how I was raised, and when I was first introduced to this big internet of ours, what the conventional wisdom regarding it's use and one's safety was.

One may look at that relative to the current culture that forks over all their details to Facebook without a thought, and think I'm paranoid, but from my perspective, it seems like the entire world has rushed into this thing without nearly enough of them being warned of the issues and consequences that can occur.

I find myself wondering where all those people who taught me to be so careful about these things as a lad are now, because the world it seems could sure use them.

[Savok]

I can be eloquent, I just get sort of frustrated when I'm being dogpiled needlessly and lose my cool.
Dude, you're talking to the poster child of the Red Lanterns, I was mostly talking about myself :p

[J Arcane]

Hee hee hee. :D

[Mot Wakorb]

I won't deny to being a little bit paranoid, but so far in my life it's served me very well. I've only encountered three incidents of personal fraud or other such things in my life, one was a real life shop, the other two were WoW account thefts. These days it seems like that's a pretty good record.

This is how I was raised, and when I was first introduced to this big internet of ours, what the conventional wisdom regarding it's use and one's safety was.

One may look at that relative to the current culture that forks over all their details to Facebook without a thought, and think I'm paranoid, but from my perspective, it seems like the entire world has rushed into this thing without nearly enough of them being warned of the issues and consequences that can occur.

I find myself wondering where all those people who taught me to be so careful about these things as a lad are now, because the world it seems could sure use them.

I'm not going to pretend that I've been the safest online, knowing full well the risks are - and maybe I've just been lucky, but I've not had any identity theft, nor any sort of credit card issues. It's perfectly okay to have some info out there without running too much risk. I know that people in the current facebook/myspace generation are all too willing to throw whatever they like out there, but there is an acceptable level out there.

I've learned quite easily what can be found on the internet just by trying, but I put myself at that same risk with the checker at *insert store name here* that has my credit card and asks for ID verification - I'm handing you my license and my credit card. What else do you need to steal my identity? It's all a general risk these days.

[Banacek]

It's best to assume that at some point someone is going to steal your identity and have a plan to deal with it. I get daily updates on my credit reports and alerts on big credit card purchases. If something happens I can freeze my accounts and credit reports immediately. It sucks that you have to deal with all this bullshit, but that's the world we live in nowadays. People can and will go through your trash to steal your identity.

[Savok]

Yes but the Internet is such a broader audience. A clerk at a store is one person, the Internet is potentially millions.

[Serapth]

Moreso than that Savok, the Internet makes it trivially easy to cross reference multiple otherwise harmless pieces of information. Individually, there is no value in each piece but put together can reveal a staggering amount of information about you.

[Savok]

Very true.

Fuck I just put "Savok Australia" into Google, found a bunch of sites I used to go to and posts from years ago. Then it lapsed into those Russian sites again, one of these days I'll find out what I've accidentally called myself all these years.

Still, with more information and someone who knows what they're doing, well...

[Farsight]

Sure, the online banking and amazon tends to get phishing e-mails, but neither of those have add-ons that can come from untrusted sources and give you a keylogger. Seems a bit apples and oranges to me in that sense. I've not heard of the account system itself being hacked, I've always heard it was due to stupid people.

That's Blizzard's story, and they're sticking to it.

I never installed an add-on. I only played for 3 days.

There are numerous login systems more secure than "email address plus password". For the majority of their users, Blizzard has chosen not to use any of them. Do not trust these people with any information you value.

[Ink Asylum]

There are numerous login systems more secure than "email address plus password". For the majority of their users, Blizzard has chosen not to use any of them. Do not trust these people with any information you value.

First, WoW uses a login that's different than your e-mail. So if you don't share your login it'll be much harder for someone to figure it out.

Second, can you name a single other MMO that uses more than just login+password? Even my bank websites and e-mail only use login+password. Amazon.com uses e-mail plus password.

Third, they've offered their users a much more secure form of security for years. in the form of the authenticator.

So the vast majority of internet sites and programs use the same system, one that can be hacked merely by acquiring or brute forcing two pieces of information, sometimes only one. Blizzard has never had login information stolen from their servers, unlike a number of other big sites. So from their end they do exactly what most other sites do, yet they seem to get hacked more often than others. If there is any reason for that it doesn't lie with Blizzard, or else the same could be said for practically every other site that accepts an internet login.

Yet they have gone further and provided an optional authenticator for people who want increased security. I can only think of two things they could do beyond that:

Give the authenticators away for free: I wouldn't be surprised if this is just what they did, probably by packing it in with Cataclysm.

Disable mod support: If they didn't allow mods then a large source of keyloggers and hacks would be cut off. The community would never support this, though.

Beyond that, there's nothing I can think that they should do, and I'd love to hear some of these increased security measures that Blizzard should institute yet no other online game and even most internet sites don't.

[BigJonno]

First, WoW uses a login that's different than your e-mail. So if you don't share your login it'll be much harder for someone to figure it out.

That's not been true since November, when battle.net integration became mandatory.

[Hawkzombie]

Wow uses a login diff from my e-mail? Uh...it uses my e-mail as my login name. Battle.net

EDIT: Damn you, Jonno :p

[Mot Wakorb]

Third, they've offered their users a much more secure form of security for years. in the form of the authenticator.

So the vast majority of internet sites and programs use the same system, one that can be hacked merely by acquiring or brute forcing two pieces of information, sometimes only one. Blizzard has never had login information stolen from their servers, unlike a number of other big sites. So from their end they do exactly what most other sites do, yet they seem to get hacked more often than others. If there is any reason for that it doesn't lie with Blizzard, or else the same could be said for practically every other site that accepts an internet login.

Yet they have gone further and provided an optional authenticator for people who want increased security. I can only think of two things they could do beyond that:

Give the authenticators away for free: I wouldn't be surprised if this is just what they did, probably by packing it in with Cataclysm.

Disable mod support: If they didn't allow mods then a large source of keyloggers and hacks would be cut off. The community would never support this, though.

Beyond that, there's nothing I can think that they should do, and I'd love to hear some of these increased security measures that Blizzard should institute yet no other online game and even most internet sites don't.

The authenticator is already (sort of) free. I know they offer an iPhone, Blackberry and Android app that does the two-phase authentication that the standard authenticator offers. I know that's a limited subset of players, but it's out there already.

Honestly - what more security can be done? There's only so far you can go with websites/applications.

[BigJonno]

Honestly - what more security can be done? There's only so far you can go with websites/applications.

Squid told me that they're going to be releasing the Authenticator 2.0 soon. It uses revolutionary phallic scanning technology. All you do is stick your schlong in a plastic tube and it logs you in. Apparently they're considering an "always on" requirement. There will also be a free app for the Apple iWang.

And you don't want to know what the female version is like.

[Ink Asylum]

That's not been true since November, when battle.net integration became mandatory.

Well, that shows how long it's been since I played WoW. :) I retract that point.

[Squidbot]

Squid told me that they're going to be releasing the Authenticator 2.0 soon. It uses revolutionary phallic scanning technology. All you do is stick your schlong in a plastic tube and it logs you in. Apparently they're considering an "always on" requirement. There will also be a free app for the Apple iWang.

And you don't want to know what the female version is like.

Last time I Share insider information with you!

[boratika]

Squid told me that they're going to be releasing the Authenticator 2.0 soon. It uses revolutionary phallic scanning technology. All you do is stick your schlong in a plastic tube and it logs you in. Apparently they're considering an "always on" requirement.

I assume if at any point your erection drops out you are booted to the main menu.


I mean if you are sitting at a PC it is a reasonable assumption you have an erection, right?

[Squidbot]

I assume if at any point your erection drops out you are booted to the main menu.


I mean if you are sitting at a PC it is a reasonable assumption you have an erection, right?

Which leads me to believe.....OH GOD!

[Farsight]

Second, can you name a single other MMO that uses more than just login+password?

Most MMOs use a login other than your email address, which certainly seems smarter than WoW.

Third, they've offered their users a much more secure form of security for years. in the form of the authenticator.

I shouldn't have to buy a dongle to play a video game. It's nowhere near standard, instead acting as a band-aid to keep the security hemorrhages from driving away their hardcore fans.

Blizzard has never had login information stolen from their servers, unlike a number of other big sites.

That's impossible to know. It's an assumption, just like the assumption that every single hacked account is the result of customer error.

From my own experience (no add-ons, virus checker and firewall running, fresh install of Windows and WoW, only typed in email once), I'm not convinced. I find it odd that my account was safe for months of previous usage, then was hacked within days of being converted to Battle.net.

If there is any reason for that it doesn't lie with Blizzard, or else the same could be said for practically every other site that accepts an internet login.

WoW isn't a site, it's a program. WoW is much simpler to keylog because the sequence of input is entirely predictable: run exe, type in login, type in password. With web browsers, you have multiple programs and unpredictable input.

Beyond that, there's nothing I can think that they should do, and I'd love to hear some of these increased security measures that Blizzard should institute yet no other online game and even most internet sites don't.

Most internet sites don't have the security issues WoW has. If they did, they'd be bankrupt, because no one would make excuses for them or blame their customers for their mistakes.

As for what they could do... why not an IP range check? If the IP isn't from the same service provider as the original logon ("Weird, Jimbo seems to have moved to China!"), require an additional password/challenge. There are tons of things they -could- do, they've chosen not to.

[Banacek]

Yeah, a GeoIP lookup is pretty trivial nowadays. There is no reason not to do one.

[Savok]

Speaking of security, looks like someone tried to reset my Steam password on the 2nd (I don't check my email that often). Thieving little shits.

[Blue]

Squid told me that they're going to be releasing the Authenticator 2.0 soon. It uses revolutionary phallic scanning technology. All you do is stick your schlong in a plastic tube and it logs you in. Apparently they're considering an "always on" requirement. There will also be a free app for the Apple iWang.

And you don't want to know what the female version is like.

See, now I can tell you're just making stuff up. There are no women on the internet and especially no women on WoW. Pffft.

[MagGnome]

I mean if you are sitting at a PC it is a reasonable assumption you have an erection, right?

That's the main reasons PC are better than consoles. ;)

[Narradisall]

Well, I don't have a problem with that.

I have an errection, all the time. It's only ever a problem when I need to pee, but I've gotten great at doing handstands.

[Hawkzombie]

I can't surf porn AND raid on a console :p

[rein]

Here you are, the solution to all your problems.
http://www.kleimo.com/random/name.cfm

MAN Kraack Hahahha!

[Doogie2K]

Most of the arguments I was going to make have been done to death. Suffice to say, the only people I'd ever want to cross-game chat with are a handful of RL friends who know my deal anyway, so I'm not hugely concerned, if perhaps a bit confused as to the ultimate necessity (Can't you just have your master Battle.net ID be it? Is this some sort of social engineering to reduce dickishness?). Still, this is far less intrusive and privacy-damaging than anything Facebook's done in the last couple of years.

Through all of this I'm surprised no one has mentioned the 1 feature I thought everyone would be up in arms about. If you're only supposed to give people you know your real ID why does Blizzard have a friends of friends feature? Once you add someone, everyone on their friends list already gets to see your real ID. For something that is supposed to be private, that's kind of stupid.

In theory, the idea is that people will only be RealID friends with people they know, and so the friends of friends feature allows you to see other people your RealID friends are also RealID friends with, and thus are more likely to be people you also know. In practice, this is not how the Internet works (see: Facebook), but I guess I can see the reasoning.

Fuck I just put "Savok Australia" into Google, found a bunch of sites I used to go to and posts from years ago. Then it lapsed into those Russian sites again, one of these days I'll find out what I've accidentally called myself all these years.

"Dog Penis," actually.