P&R Forum?

[maverick106]

Is there one? Did I miss it?

[Khrymsyn]

<- hides like a little schoolgirl

[pheriannath]

There's quite an active one at PlayItReviewIt, we don't (currently) plan to open one here.

[DoctorFinger]

We made the decision that at least for the time being we weren't going to start one up. While I enjoyed it over at EvAv, it was also the wellspring of a lot of headaches and acrimony.

If it gets to the point that P&R threads are clogging up The Lounge, we may create that forum, but for now it's not necessary.

[itchyeyes]

We made the decision that at least for the time being we weren't going to start one up. While I enjoyed it over at EvAv, it was also the wellspring of a lot of headaches and acrimony.
Thank you. Thank you so much.

[Mattism]

Thank you. Thank you so much.

I second this!

[roboninja]

Yeah, you will have to stick to PiRi for the P&R, mav.

[quidmonkey]

We made the decision that at least for the time being we weren't going to start one up. While I enjoyed it over at EvAv, it was also the wellspring of a lot of headaches and acrimony.

Most of the good P&R posters migrated to PiRi early, which is why EvAv became such a pit. I, for one, would like to see a P&R forum here.

[Typical Michael]

I never went into the P&R forum anyway. Seemed like a dirty place.

[Goronmon]

If it gets to the point that P&R threads are clogging up The Lounge, we may create that forum, but for now it's not necessary.So, just to clarify, are you saying that P&R topics are not actually discouraged from being posted in The Lounge?

[Serapth]

Most of the good P&R posters migrated to PiRi early, which is why EvAv became such a pit. I, for one, would like to see a P&R forum here.

Seconded. This splitting posting across multiple sites is actually making things worse, not better.

[Lithium Flower]

I think P&R was one of the more active forums on both EvAv and then at PiRi, it'll be a shame to push people who want to discuss P&R to another site when this is supposed to be the point of convergence. In general I think, at least to start with, the forums should resemble the set up of EvAv/PiRi as closely as possible to aid everyone's transition and bring them over. With time, we can adapt and change the forums as required but the bigger the change is, the more difficult it will be to bring everyone over and help them settle down comfortably.

Just my 2 cents.

[Cit Phil Cit]

No need for P&R on a gaming site. No better way to encourage trolls and petty rivalry then stalwart internet P&R crusades against those whom are unwashed and unclean to your POV.

[AgtFox]

Honestly, my feeling is that there are plenty of sites out there (not just PIRI) that you can discuss P&R on. P&R as a topic breeds too much anger between users that can sometimes spill into other areas of the forum. I also know at EvAv it was a pain to moderate.

[Gitaroomaan]

No need for P&R on a gaming site. No better way to encourage trolls and petty rivalry then stalwart internet P&R crusades against those whom are unwashed and unclean to your POV.

I disagree, if the purpose of CoG is to become a new "community" site, it should be a place where people can come and talk about anything, be it politics, games, movies, etc. Trolls/etc can easily be controlled through good moderation, the P&R forums over at PIRI have been just fine from what I've seen.

[quidmonkey]

As if the hate doesn't boil over from pointless fanboy drivel over whether the PS3 or 360 are better?

And what's this new reputation feature for, if for not pointing out the trolls among us, whether they be fanboys or religious fanatics?

Mods - for your reference (http://www.playitreviewit.com/forums/showthread.php?t=665).

[pheriannath]

IF we were to put up a P&R forum here eventually, someone would have to volunteer to moderate it. I sure as hell stay away from those threads.

[quidmonkey]

IF we were to put up a P&R forum here eventually, someone would have to volunteer to moderate it. I sure as hell stay away from those threads.

I think Torre or Ox or EG or Slack3r would all be excellent candidates.

[Cit Phil Cit]

I disagree, if the purpose of CoG is to become a new "community" site, it should be a place where people can come and talk about anything, be it politics, games, movies, etc. Trolls/etc can easily be controlled through good moderation, the P&R forums over at PIRI have been just fine from what I've seen.

This is a gaming website, I don't believe P&R is appropriate, you are welcome to disagree. P&R are the two most incendiary topics you could discuss, which is why I prefer it to not be here: it can overwhelm the intent of this site, gaming.

As if the hate doesn't boil over from pointless fanboy drivel over whether the PS3 or 360 are better?

And what's this new reputation feature for, if for not pointing out the trolls among us, whether they be fanboys or religious fanatics?

Mods - for your reference (http://www.playitreviewit.com/forums/showthread.php?t=665).


Interesting point, how you bring up up pointless fanboy drivel as the counterpoint - which is part of my reasoning as to it not being needed.

I mean sure, it's cool if you want to have the forum. I'm just saying, I don't want it.

[Serapth]

Honestly, my feeling is that there are plenty of sites out there (not just PIRI) that you can discuss P&R on. P&R as a topic breeds too much anger between users that can sometimes spill into other areas of the forum. I also know at EvAv it was a pain to moderate.

There are plenty of sites that discuss electronics, movies, book, comics, etc... and yet they all have a home.

Its not the P&R conversation that people here want to have. Its the P&R conversation *with our friends* that we want to have.

[itchyeyes]

I disagree, if the purpose of CoG is to become a new "community" site, it should be a place where people can come and talk about anything, be it politics, games, movies, etc. Trolls/etc can easily be controlled through good moderation, the P&R forums over at PIRI have been just fine from what I've seen.
But it isn't supposed to be just a community site, it's a community of gamers. That doesn't mean that we can't talk about other things, but gaming is what's drawing us all to this site and it should stay the central focus of the site. The problem I have with P&R forums isn't that people get emotional in them, but that they completely drown out the rest of the conversation on the site. Take a look at the EvAv sidebar since Evil started putting P&R back on it. Nobody is talking about games over there anymore and when you loose that common thread that brought you all together it degrades the quality of the community.

[quidmonkey]

But it isn't supposed to be just a community site, it's a community of gamers. That doesn't mean that we can't talk about other things, but gaming is what's drawing us all to this site and it should stay the central focus of the site.

By this reasoning, we shouldn't discuss comics, movies, music, etc., much less let them have their own forum.

[Commissar Rob]

I never went into the P&R forum anyway. Seemed like a dirty place.You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villiany...

I can sympathize with the detractors...but I also understand the desire to talk about some of the more important events of the day. Maybe P&R is too loaded...too much baggage. Couldn't a "Current Events" sub forum do the same thing with the negative connotations?

[Heretic Machine]

I'd rather leave P&R at PiRi.

[TheFlyingOrc]

I'd rather leave P&R at PiRi.

Then it will die. Nobody is going to be tabbing between the two.

[Heretic Machine]

Then it will die. Nobody is going to be tabbing between the two.

The people who want it here right now already visit PiRi for their P&R, and probably don't even want more people on their forum.

[Vyzov]

Then it will die. Nobody is going to be tabbing between the two.

Seeing as how the point of COG is to bring these sites together with this as a central ground, it better not die. If it does, we're doing something wrong as a community.

[TheFlyingOrc]

Seeing as how the point of COG is to bring these sites together with this as a central ground, it better not die. If it does, we're doing something wrong as a community.

That is entirely what some of us are trying to say.

[Cit Phil Cit]

By this reasoning, we shouldn't discuss comics, movies, music, etc., much less let them have their own forum.

Those could be, and I'm not summarily saying yes or no either way - are entertainment, which is for most people, gaming is a part of. Something to do, it's for fun: lighthearted, etc.

I've never been one for podcasts, so I would assume that the usual podcasts for this site don't leave the realm of gaming to discuss hot-button political issues too frequently?

[squirrelTactics]

But it isn't supposed to be just a community site, it's a community of gamers.


Yes, but I believe the emphasis is still supposed to be on community.

[Vulture]

But it isn't supposed to be just a community site, it's a community of gamers. Take a look at the EvAv sidebar since Evil started putting P&R back on it. Nobody is talking about games over there anymore and when you loose that common thread that brought you all together it degrades the quality of the community.
i would chock this up as "politics are hot" now, not too much hot-ness in game news now. besides, this should be taken as a sign that its something that the community really really wants, if its so active. if people are concerned with it eating up the bulk of the discussion on the boards then steps can be taken to limit its visibility.

[fitbabits]

The official word...

P&R posts are welcome, but I will personally come down on people like a ton of bricks if I detect any animosity brewing because of them.

In time there may be a dedicated P&R forum, but it will be a long time from now. Head on over to Andrew's digs (PiRi) for your fix.

[Vulture]

The official word...

P&R posts are welcome, but I will personally come down on people like a ton of bricks if I detect any animosity brewing because of them.

that sounds like something someone i know said once :(

[fitbabits]

that sounds like something someone i know said once :(
Glad you got the reference. :)

And don't worry, I was only halfway serious.

Bring on the spoiler tags, please. :)

[Grifter]

I think the P&R forum was one of the things that took EvAv in the direction it has been going over the passed year or so and while people may like discussions on those topics it almost always breeds animosity between members. 9 times out of 10 the only time a P&R topic stays truly civil is when everyone in that thread agrees with each other and if that's going to be the case whats the point of the thread? You might as well just call it the Circle Jerk thread.

I don't think it's generally a good idea to split the community but in this case I think a P&R forum would do more damage than good.

I don't know how the software this site runs on works but if it's possible maybe have a P&R thread you have to actively sign up for and unless you do it will never show up in any of the categories, no matter what. Have a couple volunteers moderate it and have very strict rules about it spilling out into the general forum. Something like if any one refers to a P&R post negatively outside of the P&R category they get a one week banning or something.

[quidmonkey]

I am a sad panda :(

[torrefaction]

Yeah, as much as I'd like to support things here more, I'll probably be primarily posting at PiRi. For me the P&R and ToT conversation were how I developed such close bonds with the community. Talking gaming alone doesn't let those deeper threads occur. I think not separating the ToT from P&R is a somewhat bad idea because it doesn't allow the people who DON'T want to deal with P&R threads any sort of filter.

[TheFlyingOrc]

I think the P&R forum was one of the things that took EvAv in the direction it has been going over the passed year or so and while people may like discussions on those topics it almost always breeds animosity between members. 9 times out of 10 the only time a P&R topic stays truly civil is when everyone in that thread agrees with each other and if that's going to be the case whats the point of the thread? You might as well just call it the Circle Jerk thread.

I don't think it's generally a good idea to split the community but in this case I think a P&R forum would do more damage than good.

I don't know how the software this site runs on works but if it's possible maybe have a P&R thread you have to actively sign up for and unless you do it will never show up in any of the categories, no matter what. Have a couple volunteers moderate it and have very strict rules about it spilling out into the general forum. Something like if any one refers to a P&R post negatively outside of the P&R category they get a one week banning or something.
I strongly disagree, because I found, with the exception of Schnoogs, that EvAv was consistently the least confrontational on such issues. It isn't now that everyone left, but it was.

[pheriannath]

I strongly disagree, because I found, with the exception of Schnoogs, that EvAv was consistently the least confrontational on such issues. It isn't now that everyone left, but it was.

Keep in mind, once everyone left for PIRI, the P&R boards at EvAv became everyone else's most recent memory of what P&R boards are.

You know... cesspools.

[maverick106]

There are plenty of sites that discuss electronics, movies, book, comics, etc... and yet they all have a home.

Its not the P&R conversation that people here want to have. Its the P&R conversation *with our friends* that we want to have.

This

tooshort

[Vulture]

think not separating the ToT from P&R is a somewhat bad idea because it doesn't allow the people who DON'T want to deal with P&R threads any sort of filter.

i agree. also setting up a dedicated spot for that type of discussion would also limit the "spillage" into other areas. i think it worked out pretty well on evav, piri as well as tons of other sites.

@grifter i disagree that it breeds animosity, or atleast not on a scale that could hurt the forum. it seemed to me that the animosity was typically between a handful of people who had opposing viewpoints. it just was highly visible.

it seems to me that the community wants this sort of discussion, and further they want it here, it seems unfair to me for a site that markets itself as a community hub that seeks to be the opposite of a totalitarian state to strike this decision down unequivocally, without a discussion:(

i'm sorry if i am pushing this issue, as its already been deemed to not happen, but i can't help but feel that a few very important considerations were not weighed in the decision. the decision strikes me as a bit too cautious and closed. surely something can be worked out that the community would be happy with, and that would not harm the integrity and spirit of the site. we have a great community, i think it does a disservice to it to claim that we won't be able to handle ourselves in a P&R forum, or that the site would get negative because of the reactions in there.

[Slack3r78]

I think Torre or Ox or EG or Slack3r would all be excellent candidates.
I'll just chime in that Torrefaction did a great job keeping things under control while he was moderating that forum. I don't think I recall anyone complaining about how things were handled and they stayed civil and people got corrected when they weren't. Point being, there's no reason for it to be a cesspit if it's moderated.

And, personally, I prefer to stay in the background, but I'd gladly volunteer to help moderate a P&R forum if that's what it'd take to get one.

[Slack3r78]

The people who want it here right now already visit PiRi for their P&R, and probably don't even want more people on their forum.
Please don't speak for others.

A large part of the reason why we're concerned is that we're afraid orphaning P&R onto another site will cause new blood to dry up in the forum.

[Cit Phil Cit]

...
it seems to me that the community wants this sort of discussion, and further they want it here, it seems unfair to me for a site that markets itself as a community hub that seeks to be the opposite of a totalitarian state to strike this decision down unequivocally, without a discussion:(

i'm sorry if i am pushing this issue, as its already been deemed to not happen, but i can't help but feel that a few very important considerations were not weighed in the decision. the decision strikes me as a bit too cautious and closed. surely something can be worked out that the community would be happy with, and that would not harm the integrity and spirit of the site. we have a great community, i think it does a disservice to it to claim that we won't be able to handle ourselves in a P&R forum, or that the site would get negative because of the reactions in there.

P&R posts are allowed, the only thing that was not done is creating a forum. Your post seems to suggest it is not allowed, which is inaccurate. You want a forum, I'd rather it not be here at all - but it's allowed in this section. Which part of that is being reactionary, extreme or discourteous?

The only thing that hasn't been "worked out" is getting everything you want.

[NoName]

Is there a way to keep a forum from showing up in the "New Posts" link? As long as there's a mod for it and the P&R forum is kept off the "New posts" link and sidebar, why not have it?

I'm personally not a big fan of it, but there's good points to both sides. The above is my best attempt at a compromise.

[Slack3r78]

P&R posts are allowed, the only thing that was not done is creating a forum. Your post seems to suggest it is not allowed, which is inaccurate. You want a forum, I'd rather it not be here at all - but it's allowed in this section. Which part of that is being reactionary, extreme or being discourteous?
I don't think that any of those descriptions apply, but I do think that just lumping those topics into the Lounge is a mistake if the concern is that they breed bad blood. You generally want your off-topic forum to be fairly relaxed in atmosphere and you really have to moderate P&R threads heavily to keep them from getting out of hand.

[Blue]

A P&R forum isn't something I see myself using much (maybe occasionally), so this doesn't really matter to me one way or the other. That said, I agree that having one on a different site would still lead to a potential splinter and I don't think that's a good thing. I understand why some folks wouldn't want one here given the baggage that may or may not come with it, but at the same time if it's regulated just to ToT then people who don't want anything P&R related will still have to wade through it.

I'd say it couldn't hurt as those who want to view it will, those who don't won't. Just my 2.

[NoName]

P&R posts are allowed, the only thing that was not done is creating a forum. Your post seems to suggest it is not allowed, which is inaccurate. You want a forum, I'd rather it not be here at all - but it's allowed in this section. Which part of that is being reactionary, extreme or discourteous?

But if it had it's own forum then hopefully one could ignore the political threads if they didn't want to read them :). Especially if it can be kept out of the aggregated post areas like the sidebar and the "new posts" link.

[Goronmon]

You want a forum, I'd rather it not be here at all - but it's allowed in this section. Which part of that is being reactionary, extreme or discourteous?It just seems like a strange decision as it's basically worse than splitting off P&R into a separate sub-forum since you force anyone reading OT stuff to also read the P&R stuff.

[Cit Phil Cit]

But if it had it's own forum then hopefully one could ignore the political threads if they didn't want to read them :). Especially if it can be kept out of the aggregated post areas like the sidebar and the "new posts" link.

I would tend to agree, but some gamers mix with P&R. I still would rather it not be here, but let the pieces fall where they may, things can be adjusted by those who can adjust, as they see fit.

[Vulture]

P&R posts are allowed, the only thing that was not done is creating a forum. Your post seems to suggest it is not allowed, which is inaccurate. You want a forum, I'd rather it not be here at all - but it's allowed in this section. Which part of that is being reactionary, extreme or discourteous?

The only thing that hasn't been "worked out" is getting everything you want.

ok, i'm not sure that that was called for:mad:
i'm not trying to get everything i want, i am arguing that it seems to be something that many members of the community want, a dedicated sub-forum for P&R.... which has been deemed as not allowed because it is dangerous to the community. i was trying to illustrate my opinion that such fears are unwarranted.

....i am fully aware that this forum is not santa, i did not ask for battleship for Christmas. whats wrong with discussing what you, and OTHERS seem to want to get out of a COMMUNITY site?

I would tend to agree, but some gamers mix with P&R. I still would rather it not be here, but let the pieces fall where they may, things can be adjusted by those who can adjust, as they see fit.
so if you would prefer it not being here, would it not be better to you to have a section dedicated to it that you will never have to go into? what you are proposing would actually expose you to more of those conversations than what we seem to be arguing for.

[Lithium Flower]

I agree with Vulture and Torrefaction and the others, the way the old P&R forum was handled at EvAv was really good (and I would also support Torrefaction's nomination as a moderator). We had a bunch of really healthy discussions and with politics being so big right now, many want to discuss current issues with those who form part of our favourite community.

Pooling P&R into The Lounge would change the atmosphere of The Lounge altogether and expose those who don't want to be bothered with it to it. Let it be a separate forum where those who want to can discuss politics, religion and current affairs. Call it Current Affairs if P&R suggests bad mojo, remove it from the side-bar to keep it low profile, but don't bring a hatchet down on it and force those who enjoy it to 'get their fix' elsewhere, something that hardly coincides with the express purpose of CoG - to bring people together.

[sparkfizt]

I also vote no P&R forum. I personally felt P&R created too many problems that inevitably bled out into the gaming sections. P&R by it's nature was also far too active, I got really tired of looking at the side-bar to see 1/2-3/4 of it P&R flamefests.

At the very minimum if P&R is going to exist, please ensure it's not on the side-bar by default.

[J Arcane]

Giving something it's own forum amounts to an invitation, an encouragement. I don't see how political polemic is something that a GAMING forum should be giving any special encouragement, because it's not what the site is about.

We recently had a problem on theRPGsite with an invasion of banned trolls from other boards who basically came there expressly for the purpose of stirring up political garbage, and it seriously put a drain on the amount of traffic to other boards.

I see nothing that prevents any desired political discussion taking place in the main part of the off-topic section where it can compete with the rest of the threads like any other subject, except perhaps for that encouragement at the top of the Lounge towards civility and respect.

[Serapth]

I also vote no P&R forum. I personally felt P&R created too many problems that inevitably bled out into the gaming sections. P&R by it's nature was also far too active, I got really tired of looking at the side-bar to see 1/2-3/4 of it P&R flamefests.

At the very minimum if P&R is going to exist, please ensure it's not on the side-bar by default.

Yes, how dare we have features that are popular! :rolleyes:

[Goronmon]

Giving something it's own forum amounts to an invitation, an encouragement. I don't see how political polemic is something that a GAMING forum should be giving any special encouragement, because it's not what the site is about.Like or not, the P&R forum was a significant aspect of EvAv for some of the most active members. Saying there isn't a similar section here is basically saying you don't want that part of the community over here. Which is cool I guess if that's what you are aiming for.

[DoctorFinger]

I should also point out that people are asking for a forum when we've yet to see a single thread that would actually go into that forum.

[Goronmon]

I should also point out that people are asking for a forum when we've yet to see a single thread that would actually go into that forum.Well, that's because it seems as though those types of discussions weren't wanted here, so it's been kept over on PIRI.

[TheFlyingOrc]

I should also point out that people are asking for a forum when we've yet to see a single thread that would actually go into that forum.

That would be because we've been pretty much told that they're discouraged. Don't get upset just because people are respecting the mod's authority.

[Serapth]

Like or not, the P&R forum was a significant aspect of EvAv for some of the most active members. Saying there isn't a similar section here is basically saying you don't want that part of the community over here. Which is cool I guess if that's what you are aiming for.

Well said and agreed.

[Ghostbear]

I am so not interested in having a P&R forum here.

[J Arcane]

Like or not, the P&R forum was a significant aspect of EvAv for some of the most active members. Saying there isn't a similar section here is basically saying you don't want that part of the community over here. Which is cool I guess if that's what you are aiming for.
Then start a thread about politics then?

Is the attention of the P&R crew so in need of stroking that it has to have it's own special circle to stand in?

[Goronmon]

Is the attention of the P&R crew so in need of stroking that it has to have it's own special circle to stand in?I'd argue it's the people who aren't interested in the P&R stuff who are the ones worried about it. The people who are questioned whether they would be welcome here and generally the response is "Not really."

[AgtFox]

OK...I want to test a little theory of mine here. I think I'm going to create a poll in this forum asking if people want a P&R forum or not.

I would like the users to answer honestly. If the prevailing opinion is to have one we shall discuss creating one. The reason I say that is because this is just me, one out of seven people, thinking up this experiment.

This is also a way to show that we value the overall communities thoughts on things in our decisionmaking.

[sparkfizt]

Yes, how dare we have features that are popular! :rolleyes:

"P&R by it's nature was also far too active, I got really tired of looking at the side-bar to see 1/2-3/4 of it P&R flamefests."

Yes, because by nature flamefests are abnormally active threads.

I'm cool with it existing provided it does'nt show up on the sidebar. What invariably happens is someone creates a topic with an inflammatory title "Omg bush/democrats destroyed our economy", the more inflammatory the title the more people see it and flock to bicker. If it does'nt show up on the side-bar then people have to actually seek out the sub-forum. I think you'd find in this case you'd also likely get a better quality of posts.

[Goronmon]

What invariably happens is someone creates a topic with an inflammatory title "Omg bush/democrats destroyed our economy", the more inflammatory the title the more people see it and flock to bicker.That's why having someone like torrefaction buckling down on inflammatory posting is a huge help.

[Slack3r78]

That's why having someone like torrefaction buckling down on inflammatory posting is a huge help.
Yeah. What he's describing pretty much didn't happen while torre was modding the forum.

[AgtFox]

Oh yes, even if the vote is on the prevailing side Siraris (Andrew) would have to okay such a thing because it would be taking away a part of his site. So, you guys have to convince him too.

[Slack3r78]

Oh yes, even if the vote is on the prevailing side Siraris (Andrew) would have to okay such a thing because it would be taking away a part of his site. So, you guys have to convince him too.
Which is why setting these sites up as competition with each other is ridiculous, but there's another thread about that already.

[Ten19]

Which is why setting these sites up as competition with each other is ridiculous, but there's another thread about that already.

The sites weren't "set up as competition", the sites and their forums (especially IM), were around long before CoG broke ground. We're just trying our best to consolidate and find common ground in the community for the short-term... it's been stated many times that the current arrangement isn't necessary the permanent solution.

Again, from the beginning, CoG is supposed to be the hub, the other sites will keep their focus without overlap and with an eye on possibly consolidating things in the future.

[J Arcane]

The sites weren't "set up as competition", the sites and their forums (especially IM), were around long before CoG broke ground. We're just trying our best to consolidate and find common ground in the community the short-term and it's been stated many times that the current arrangement isn't necessary the permanent solution. Again, from the beginning, CoG is supposed to be the hub, the other sites will keep their focus without overlap and with an eye on possibly consolidating things in the future.
The sites are always going to be in competition. You can't avoid that, it's just an inevitability. Most people post to one, maybe two forums tops, especially if one of those forums happens to be especially active.

[Slack3r78]

The sites weren't "set up as competition", the sites and their forums (especially IM), were around long before CoG broke ground. We're just trying our best to consolidate and find common ground in the community the short-term and it's been stated many times that the current arrangement isn't necessary the permanent solution.
User X has a finite amount of time Y to spend on forum Z.

Forums A, B, and C also pop up. User X now has to decide how to allocate Y among A, B, C, and Z.

That's competition, even if it's friendly.

[Ten19]

I think in terms of the de facto "community forum", CoG is it. PIRI, IM, Co-op and IGC aren't necessarily vying to be the huge broad-reaching forum that is needed and implemented well in CoG. Each of the affiliated sites has a specific focus, not necessarily full-on dedicated to "community" forums and blogs like CoG.

Just how I interpreted it.

[Voodoo]

User X has a finite amount of time Y to spend on forum Z.

Forums A, B, and C also pop up. User X now has to decide how to allocate Y among A, B, C, and Z.

That's competition, even if it's friendly.
Um... Slacker... You may want to check this thread out.

http://www.playitreviewit.com/forums/showthread.php?t=669

[Slack3r78]

I think in terms of the de facto "community forum", CoG is it. PIRI, IM, Co-op and IGC aren't necessarily vying to be the huge broad-reaching forum that is needed and implemented well in CoG. Each of the affiliated sites has a specific focus, not necessarily full-on dedicated to "community" forums and blogs like CoG.

Just how I interpreted it.
That doesn't negate that they're competing with each other for user time, and in a relatively inefficient manner at the present, in my opinion.

But like I said, there are already other threads about this.

[Slack3r78]

Um... Slacker... You may want to check this thread out.

http://www.playitreviewit.com/forums/showthread.php?t=669
Yeah, just confirmation that things are trending toward fracturing, IMO.

Not what I'd have liked to have seen, but whatever. People are going to do what they're going to do.

[J Arcane]

Um... Slacker... You may want to check this thread out.

http://www.playitreviewit.com/forums/showthread.php?t=669
Clearly not all members of this "collective" even agree that it's not a direct competition.

Not that I'm surprised. This is exactly the way Siraris behaved after the Magic PC incident, using the #evilavatar channel to try and drum up support for his personal site.

[AgtFox]

The sites are always going to be in competition. You can't avoid that, it's just an inevitability. Most people post to one, maybe two forums tops, especially if one of those forums happens to be especially active.
You could arguably say they were in competition before CoG came about then. CoG is the replacement for EvAv as an overall site to come to, it really is not in competition with any of the other sites. I can understand where people would question that, but let's compare the sites.

Co-Optimus: does news on co-op gaming only, reviews the co-op part of games

PIRI: Primarily was built to be a repository of user reviews

Immortal Machines: PC game and hardware discussion

In-Game Chat: not really a competitor since it is the offical podcast of CoG, shared resources (there is an IGC forum here for instance)

CoG: does everything EvAv used to do (news, reviews, coverall forums, etc.) done by the very people that have brought you that coverage for years. Blogs have been added as well as other things.

From my perspective there is no competition because all the leaders of the sites are in tune with what each brings. I think the reaction is that there are multiple forums, but CoG covers everything while the others cover niche sections.

Also keep in mind that even out of the founders there is a lot of crossing over to the other sites.

[Goronmon]

CoG is the replacement for EvAv as an overall site to come to, it really is not in competition with any of the other sites.All the sites are in competition as a replacement for EvAv, IMO.

[J Arcane]

PIRI: Primarily was built to be a repository of user reviews

Look at that link Voodoo gave. Doesn't look to me like PIRI is interested in being only about reviews.

[shunoshi]

You could arguably say they were in competition before CoG came about then. CoG is the replacement for EvAv as an overall site to come to, it really is not in competition with any of the other sites. I can understand where people would question that, but let's compare the sites.

Co-Optimus: does news on co-op gaming only, reviews the co-op part of games

PIRI: Primarily was built to be a repository of user reviews

Immortal Machines: PC game and hardware discussion

In-Game Chat: not really a competitor since it is the offical podcast of CoG, shared resources (there is an IGC forum here for instance)

CoG: does everything EvAv used to do (news, reviews, coverall forums, etc.) done by the very people that have brought you that coverage for years. Blogs have been added as well as other things.

From my perspective there is no competition because all the leaders of the sites are in tune with what each brings. I think the reaction is that there are multiple forums, but CoG covers everything while the others cover niche sections.

Also keep in mind that even out of the founders there is a lot of crossing over to the other sites.

I think the main problem is that during the 2 months between the "Magic PC" incident and CoG's launch today, PiRi transformed into an EvAv-like site. The forum went from a few subforums to looking identical to EvAv. I think PiRi also received the majority of the inital exodus. So now PiRi is sort of in direct competition with CoG.

[Serapth]

Look at that link Voodoo gave. Doesn't look to me like PIRI is interested in being only about reviews.

You have to remember that PIRI had a community already. Then a solid core of people moved to PiRi during the first Exodus and formed a good solid community. CoG could be the death of that all.

[Slack3r78]

You could arguably say they were in competition before CoG came about then. CoG is the replacement for EvAv as an overall site to come to, it really is not in competition with any of the other sites. I can understand where people would question that, but let's compare the sites.

Co-Optimus: does news on co-op gaming only, reviews the co-op part of games

PIRI: Primarily was built to be a repository of user reviews

Immortal Machines: PC game and hardware discussion

In-Game Chat: not really a competitor since it is the offical podcast of CoG, shared resources (there is an IGC forum here for instance)

CoG: does everything EvAv used to do (news, reviews, coverall forums, etc.) done by the very people that have brought you that coverage for years. Blogs have been added as well as other things.

From my perspective there is no competition because all the leaders of the sites are in tune with what each brings. I think the reaction is that there are multiple forums, but CoG covers everything while the others cover niche sections.

Also keep in mind that even out of the founders there is a lot of crossing over to the other sites.
I've been arguing if people really were interested in maintaining the community, CoG should become a network of those sites, with the CoG site serving as a central forum hub. You then let each site publish content within their own niche and, holy crap, suddenly you're all partners sharing users instead of competing for them.

But that's apparently naive of me. I really don't see any way to avoid the fracturing I've been afraid of given the way everyone's acting about it.

[Goronmon]

I think the main problem is that during the 2 months between the "Magic PC" incident and CoG's launch today, PiRi transformed into an EvAv-like site. This is basically a direct overlap with CoG (excluding blogs).Quoted for truth.

[AgtFox]

All the sites are in competition as a replacement for EvAv, IMO.
Well, I can guarantee to you that Co-Optimus is not in competition as a replacement for EvAv. It was built for a specific purpose (co-op gaming).

PIRI is the only one you can really argue about, but Andrew (Siraris) can share his thoughts about whether he thinks CoG is a competitor or not. He's one of the founders of CoG.

[J Arcane]

I've been arguing if people really were interested in maintaining the community, CoG should become a network of those sites, with the CoG site serving as a central forum hub. You then let each site publish content within their own niche and, holy crap, suddenly you're all partners sharing users instead of competing for them.

But that's apparently naive of me. I really don't see any way to avoid the fracturing I've been afraid of given the way everyone's acting about it.
I think this would be a good idea in many respects, provided I felt I could be certain that this site wasn't going to fall to anti-PC trolling, I'd personally support it.

[Goronmon]

Well, I can guarantee to you that Co-Optimus is not in competition as a replacement for EvAv. It was built for a specific purpose (co-op gaming).I should have been more specific. I don't mean that all the sites were built as replacements for EvAv. I think that for the members of the community it becomes a choice based around which site to choose as their own personal replacement.

[Voodoo]

All the sites are in competition as a replacement for EvAv, IMO.

You are bloody delusional. Immortal Machines is in no way in competition with any of the other networked sites of Colony of Gamers. We are especially not in competition to take the role of EvAv replacement.

[Goronmon]

You are bloody delusional. Immortal Machines is in no way in competition with any of the other networked sites of Colony of Gamers. We are especially not in competition to take the role of EvAv replacement.Like I clarified above, I didn't intend to imply that the actual creators of said sites are looking for a competition. However, users are going to make a choice as to which ones to frequent, so they are competing in that sense.

[Bone]

I've been arguing if people really were interested in maintaining the community, CoG should become a network of those sites, with the CoG site serving as a central forum hub. You then let each site publish content within their own niche and, holy crap, suddenly you're all partners sharing users instead of competing for them.

But that's apparently naive of me. I really don't see any way to avoid the fracturing I've been afraid of given the way everyone's acting about it.

I agree wholeheartedly, and really don't see why this can't be. When you're in one forum, your stylesheets would change (just like they did in our old Halo3 puke green forum) and you'd know you were in another section. To me it would both support the diversity of the "hubbed" sites while in the end leading everyone to the same group of people.

[Cit Phil Cit]

By us leaving, different directions are being taken, being led by those with the wherewithal to lead to some new promised land, that we be much like the magical garden that we left. Much promises will be made and those who are leading don't want their energies or directions to be lost. So, even under the most amicable situations, those who are making the effort are going to start getting upset, if they feel they're being less successful then someone else - or feel that someone else leading in a similar but different direction is being less noble then themselves in doing so.

That being said, some of you are bastards who feed off the excitement and don't give a damn, especially those who aren't doing more than just creating multiple logins for the different sites. So, let's be civil and not throw rocks and ignore the trolls - who obviously don't care.

[AgtFox]

I should have been more specific. I don't mean that all the sites were built as replacements for EvAv. I think that for the members of the community it becomes a choice based around which site to choose as their own personal replacement.
And that's their choice and we support whatever choice users make. We just want to give people options and let them know that the 5 sites are at least connected in the idea of at least 1 of the sites being a place for the people leaving EvAv to put up their legs and stay a while.

If you choose PIRI as your only place, I'm fine with that...or if you choose Co-Optimus or any of the other sites. They are all great sites and they all have something to offer.

[AgtFox]

Putting them all under one server (CoG or whatever) would be difficult just because I know at least one of the sites will not join in the unification. The only site out of the group I personally have any say over is this one.

The users would have to really pressure the owners of the other sites to unify and I can't honestly tell you if they would want to do that or not.

[Slack3r78]

Putting them all under one server (CoG or whatever) would be difficult just because I know at least one of the sites will not join in the unification. The only site out of the group I personally have any say over is this one.

The users would have to really pressure the owners of the other sites to unify and I can't honestly tell you if they would want to do that or not.
The only thing we'd be talking about putting under a single roof are the forums. The actual content would still be maintained by each site as they saw fit. PiRi could do reviews and features, for example, but having the readers of multiple sites all on the same forum gives everyone a chance to get better readership as users are going to be more inclined to read content from multiple sources than they're going to be to participate in community in multiple places.

[shunoshi]

The only thing we'd be talking about putting under a single roof are the forums. The actual content would still be maintained by each site as they saw fit. PiRi could do reviews and features, for example, but having the readers of multiple sites all on the same forum gives everyone a chance to get better readership as users are going to be more inclined to read content from multiple sources than they're going to be to participate in community in multiple places.

I think this is really the only solution or we'll be fractured. CoG would have the central forums, general gaming news, and blogs. PiRi would have game reviews. Co-Op would have Co-Op reviews and matchmaking. IM would have everything PC. This will obviously pull forum activity from the other sites, but would create a huge reader base for the content that the partner sites provide. Win/win...right?

[Serapth]

Like AgtFox said, it's up to the people. If PiRi dies out, while being unfortunate, it happened because people preferred going to another site. That is not the fault of the site every one preferred. If you guys prefer PiRi stay at PiRi if you, like me, prefer it here than stay here, the splintering is inevitable do to the fact that people have different tastes. The important thing is that we all know where and how to get a hold of each other keeping the community as a whole together while still being able to spend time in the smaller group you prefer.

Siraris, this is a post you need to read.

Whatever the intent of CoG was/is, the reality is it is direct competition and could clobber the subscriber base.

[AgtFox]

The only thing we'd be talking about putting under a single roof are the forums. The actual content would still be maintained by each site as they saw fit. PiRi could do reviews and features, for example, but having the readers of multiple sites all on the same forum gives everyone a chance to get better readership as users are going to be more inclined to read content from multiple sources than they're going to be to participate in community in multiple places.
There would still be at least one of the sites that would not join in a unified forum, maybe more. There is different forum software at some of the sites, really the only ones that could fuse together at the moment would be this one and PIRI I believe.

[Slack3r78]

I think this is really the only solution or we'll be fractured. CoG would have the central forums, general gaming news, and blogs. PiRi would have game reviews. Co-Op would have Co-Op reviews and matchmaking. IM would have everything PC. This will obviously pull forum activity from the other sites, but would create a huge reader base for the content that the partner sites provide. Win/win...right?
That's what I'd think, but maybe it makes too much sense.

Really, I'm probably about done for the day. I'm pretty disheartened at this point because the indication I'm getting is that things are going to end up splintered all over the place. I just need to take a step back and regroup for a while.

[Goronmon]

Really, I'm probably about done for the day. I'm pretty disheartened at this point because the indication I'm getting is that things are going to end up splintered all over the place. I just need to take a step back and regroup for a while.Tell me about it.

[Grifter]

Siraris, this is a post you need to read.

Whatever the intent of CoG was/is, the reality is it is direct competition and could clobber the subscriber base.

I'm not sure if I have this strait, do you think that CoG shouldn't exist because people may like it more than PiRi? Maybe I'm reading into the post wrong but you seem to be taking CoG's existence as a hostile act towards PiRi.

[Slack3r78]

There would still be at least one of the sites that would not join in a unified forum, maybe more. There are different forum software at some of the sites, really the only ones that could fuse together at the moment would be this one and PIRI I believe.
You don't have to integrate the forums. You choose one central forum and give each site a subforum section, and then have a general content subforum for all the off-topic stuff.

Then you link from the main hub to all the other sites. You share content and send traffic to each other. This doesn't require any special code or system. The individual sites don't have to have anything in common software wise, really. They just have to participate in the network.

Finally, yes, you can later on tie in things like the PiRi review system into the same backend with something like OpenID, but that doesn't have to happen immediately.

The people that are treating this like it's some huge, technically insurmountable task are overthinking things entirely. The only real hurdle to this is political. Like I said, at this point it seems like people are letting their individual interests take priority over keeping everyone together even though it'd be a win situation all around for everyone in the long run to do so.

[Goronmon]

I'm not sure if I have this strait, do you think that CoG shouldn't exist because people may like it more than PiRi? Maybe I'm reading into the post wrong but you seem to be taking CoG's existence as a hostile act towards PiRi.I think people were hoping for more of a site that encompassed everything rather than just having yet another site to choose from when deciding where to spend all their time.

I know that things are early, I'm not complaining, I'm just trying to express my take on some of the reactions up to this point.

[shunoshi]

That's what I'd think, but maybe it makes too much sense.

Really, I'm probably about done for the day. I'm pretty disheartened at this point because the indication I'm getting is that things are going to end up splintered all over the place. I just need to take a step back and regroup for a while.

Yeah, I think I'm right there with you. I'm done for now.

[J Arcane]

I'm not sure if I have this strait, do you think that CoG shouldn't exist because people may like it more than PiRi? Maybe I'm reading into the post wrong but you seem to be taking CoG's existence as a hostile act towards PiRi.
I don't think Serapth is. But with the response this site's announcement and opening seems to have incurred over at PIRI, I think they might.

And that is unfortunate.

[quidmonkey]

But with the response this site's announcement and opening seems to have incurred over at PIRI, I think they might.

That's because the bread & butter of PiRi is P&R; to have the community dismiss P&R is to give the big fuck you to the PiRi community, many of which were part of the first exodus. Had a P&R forum been created over here on CoG, we would not be having this conversation.

As for CoG as a hub - why not? It is in keeping with its intent and will only foster what is becoming a diversified community.

[Serapth]

I'm not sure if I have this strait, do you think that CoG shouldn't exist because people may like it more than PiRi? Maybe I'm reading into the post wrong but you seem to be taking CoG's existence as a hostile act towards PiRi.

No, not at all and yes completly. This site as a place for orphaned EvAvers to go is nice, as is the idea of a gaming hub all these other communities can exist off, thats exactly what we need!

The implementation though, leaves things to be desired. If Siraris goes along with it, he can pretty much kiss his community goodbye, a community that I have become quite fond off, as have quite a few other members. Members who obviously find P&R enjoyable and are apparently also quite unwelcome by a good many members here, as this thread illustrates nicely.

CoG should have been about being a hub or core for the communities. A place people went to log in, get there messages, then depart to other areas that were more specialized. Or at the very least, a shared log in for a broader community, like MS passport or Open ID. Instead its positioning itself as competition, with more or less 100% forum overlap with PiRi and little new to offer over what we have already formed in the last few months at PiRi.

[J Arcane]

That's because the bread & butter of PiRi is P&R; to have the community dismiss P&R is to give the big fuck you to the PiRi community, many of which were part of the first exodus. Had a P&R forum been created over here on CoG, we would not be having this conversation.

As for CoG as a hub - why not? It is in keeping with its intent and will only foster what is becoming a diversified community.
Pardon my incredulity but isn't it more than a little odd to define the community of a gaming site by it's political discussion?

I don't define the community of the RPG forums I post to by their cycling threads.

[J Arcane]

No, not at all and yes completly. This site as a place for orphaned EvAvers to go is nice, as is the idea of a gaming hub all these other communities can exist off, thats exactly what we need!

The implementation though, leaves things to be desired. If Siraris goes along with it, he can pretty much kiss his community goodbye, a community that I have become quite fond off, as have quite a few other members. Members who obviously find P&R enjoyable and are apparently also quite unwelcome by a good many members here, as this thread illustrates nicely.

CoG should have been about being a hub or core for the communities. A place people went to log in, get there messages, then depart to other areas that were more specialized. Or at the very least, a shared log in for a broader community, like MS passport or Open ID. Instead its positioning itself as competition, with more or less 100% forum overlap with PiRi and little new to offer over what we have already formed in the last few months at PiRi.
If the same people are posting to the new site, how is that "kissing it goodbye"? A community is only a product of the people in it, not an entity in and of itself.

[sparkfizt]

Pardon my incredulity but isn't it more than a little odd to define the community of a gaming site by it's political discussion?

I don't define the community of the RPG forums I post to by their cycling threads.

This gets to the root of my beef with P&R, I come to these sites to read and comment on gaming events/news. Places like joystiq have excellent news, but terrible commentary. Thus I was always frustrated by 50% of the sidebar being politics on EvAv for so long.

[torrefaction]

This gets to the root of my beef with P&R, I come to these sites to read and comment on gaming events/news. Places like joystiq have excellent news, but terrible commentary. Thus I was always frustrated by 50% of the sidebar being politics on EvAv for so long.

I think the solution to this is to have an option to turn it off, but not have it off by default.

I've ALWAYS advocated that.

[torrefaction]

Also, in case you guys haven't noticed:
http://www.colonyofgamers.com/cogforums/showthread.php?t=228

[sparkfizt]

I think the solution to this is to have an option to turn it off, but not have it off by default.

I've ALWAYS advocated that.

Both ultimately work for me, the reason I thought of it being opt-in is because I figured the primary focus would be gaming. By having it be opt-in the default state of the homepage is completely gaming related, but those that want P&R could turn it on. I mainly think like this because anecdotally to me, P&R always accounted for a significant portion of the side-bar.

[J Arcane]

Also, in case you guys haven't noticed:
http://www.colonyofgamers.com/cogforums/showthread.php?t=228
Torrefaction's point is also good, namely because it looks as if you guys'll get your P&R forum anyway. ;)

[torrefaction]

Both ultimately work for me, the reason I thought of it being opt-in is because I figured the primary focus would be gaming. By having it be opt-in the default state of the homepage is completely gaming related, but those that want P&R could turn it on. I mainly think like this because anecdotally to me, P&R always accounted for a significant portion of the side-bar.

I always thought it was an ebb and wane. One of the things P&R well was keep folks coming back to talk everyday when the industry just didn't give us anything to talk about. Hell, a lot of the people I get along with best on the forums hold completely different political viewpoints than me, and it's because of the P&R forums that I think they're great people.

That even goes (or especially goes) for crazy Ol' Zanzibar.

When people are unaware of the politics forum via the sidebar, it gets completely ignored. I speak from watching Evil Avatar do this the first time, and revert it because it effectively killed the forum and as a result the folks who cared about felt jilted (Notice a theme?)

[sparkfizt]

When people are unaware of the politics forum via the sidebar, it gets completely ignored. I speak from watching Evil Avatar do this the first time, and revert it because it effectively killed the forum and as a result the folks who cared about felt jilted (Notice a theme?)

Wasn't this also before there was really a P&R following? P&R is currently winning the vote by a small but significant margin, will all these people not post unless it's on the side-bar?

[quidmonkey]

Pardon my incredulity but isn't it more than a little odd to define the community of a gaming site by it's political discussion?

I don't define the community of the RPG forums I post to by their cycling threads.

You do realize that before August, EvAv's P&R was generating something like > 40% of the forum's content? And you must also agree that EvAv was much more than gaming. As for your incredulity, maybe if you hung around PiRi some, it would disappear. A true community site is not defined by its content, but by its community.

[J Arcane]

You do realize that before August, EvAv's P&R was generating something like > 40% of the forum's content? And you must also agree that EvAv was much more than gaming. As for your incredulity, maybe if you hung around PiRi some, it would disappear. A true community site is not defined by its content, but by its community.
See, you quote that number as if it were some kind of selling point, but to me that's a sign of something seriously wrong with a site when a completely off topic forum is taking up that much of the site's traffic.

I've seen an offtopic forum take over a forum before, and it isn't pretty, not least of which because it drives off new users and people who come to actually discuss what the site is supposed to be about.

[aileron]

I've seen an offtopic forum take over a forum before, and it isn't pretty, not least of which because it drives off new users and people who come to actually discuss what the site is supposed to be about.

But isn't that exactly the argument for having a dedicated P&R board? If all those threads can be shuffled off in to the corner, it doesn't distract from the main theme. Political threads are going to pop up regardless of whether or not the text at the top of the page says P&R, so what do we do then? Allow the lounge to be taken over? Start deleting/locking them? :rolleyes: Kind of defeats CoG's "vision", don't you think?

I say give them their forum. Keep things neat and tidy, and satiate every member of the community, regardless how pointless you think their conversation is.

[torrefaction]

Wasn't this also before there was really a P&R following? P&R is currently winning the vote by a small but significant margin, will all these people not post unless it's on the side-bar?

No...not at all. It took time to build a P&R following back up after it was relegated to no sidebar, but the P&R forum has been active for YEARS. It's what drew me into regular posting, as a matter of fact.

[Siraris]

Siraris, this is a post you need to read.

Whatever the intent of CoG was/is, the reality is it is direct competition and could clobber the subscriber base.

I know this was posted early yesterday, but I feel compelled to respond.

Will this site cannibalize some of the forum posting? Absolutely, and I knew back with Magic PC, as I knew that bap was planning on doing something at that point. Was I happy with the community that formed at Piri? It was nice to have people there, it was very relaxed and nonchalant, and I enjoyed it. It doesn't have to end, as people can continue to post there, but as I said, I knew it was only a matter of time.

At the end of the day, Playitreviewit is a site for user reviews, and the way it was being used over the past few months was not for its intention. Partially that was my fault, and partially it is just the nature of the beast. You can have a site like Co-Optimus that relies on content created by Bap and his other authors, and not as much by the community. Piri is entirely based on its community, so without people submitting reviews, commenting, rating, etc. it's useless. The blame also falls on me in that I wasn't focusing enough on review related content (especially after the MPC incident), and I apologize for that.

The great thing with CoG, is, it will shine more of a spotlight on Playitreviewit. We have some great plans in terms of using CoG to promote PIRI, and with that promotion, there will hopefully be more and more content created, which will hopefully lead to more users, more content, more exposure. So while Serapth may be right, that the community will be cannibalized in the short term, in the long term, I believe it will be a great help.

[BlackPete]

At the end of the day, Playitreviewit is a site for user reviews, and the way it was being used over the past few months was not for its intention. Partially that was my fault, and partially it is just the nature of the beast. You can have a site like Co-Optimus that relies on content created by Bap and his other authors, and not as much by the community. Piri is entirely based on its community, so without people submitting reviews, commenting, rating, etc. it's useless. The blame also falls on me in that I wasn't focusing enough on review related content (especially after the MPC incident), and I apologize for that.

I applaud your perspective on this issue. That's a great attitude to have, and it's great to hear that there may not be any lingering inter-site acrimony as a result of bruised ego of certain site owners...

On the flip side, I have to be brutally honest here -- I'd much prefer one catch-all site to visit as my time is extremely limited and I can only spend it on a few sites every day (Digg, Fark, and formerly EvAv). Jumping back and forth between sites when they all essentially share the same community and each site has their own forums would be way too much for me to keep up with.

I'd love it if all the sites linked to a common set of forums, but I also understand if that's not going to happen. I mainly just want to shoot the shit while waiting for that build at work to finish (either that, or get into pretend lightsaber fights with coworkers but that gets old fast...)

[pseudopseudo]

For the love of God, if there ever comes to be a P&R forum here... I think I'd quit. It's not needed here. At all.

[pseudopseudo]

I'd love it if all the sites linked to a common set of forums, but I also understand if that's not going to happen. I mainly just want to shoot the shit while waiting for that build at work to finish (either that, or get into pretend lightsaber fights with coworkers but that gets old fast...)

Pick a favorite or GTFO.

[Slack3r78]

The great thing with CoG, is, it will shine more of a spotlight on Playitreviewit. We have some great plans in terms of using CoG to promote PIRI, and with that promotion, there will hopefully be more and more content created, which will hopefully lead to more users, more content, more exposure. So while Serapth may be right, that the community will be cannibalized in the short term, in the long term, I believe it will be a great help.
The way things are looking to be right now, PiRi, IM, Coop, etc are essentially 'friends' on CoG's blogroll. That'll get a curious user from time to time, but it's not going to drive community involvement.

[iHap]

Ugh, leave the P&R out of CoG's. PiRi has it covered just fine.

[AgtFox]

Jumping back and forth between sites when they all essentially share the same community and each site has their own forums would be way too much for me to keep up with.
Thing is the only sites that really "share the same community" is PIRI, IM and CoG.

If we look at forum numbers, CoG already has over 1/3 the amount of total posts that PIRI has. CoG has about 120 members less than PIRI as well at the moment.

IM has 154 members and 859 posts, both obviously less than either CoG or PIRI.

In the case of Co-Optimus, I'd say the majority of the users before Nick's announced resignation from EvAv were from outside EvAv. Therefore it really doesn't "share the same community".

[Bone]

I know this was posted early yesterday, but I feel compelled to respond.

Will this site cannibalize some of the forum posting? Absolutely, and I knew back with Magic PC, as I knew that bap was planning on doing something at that point. Was I happy with the community that formed at Piri? It was nice to have people there, it was very relaxed and nonchalant, and I enjoyed it. It doesn't have to end, as people can continue to post there, but as I said, I knew it was only a matter of time.

At the end of the day, Playitreviewit is a site for user reviews, and the way it was being used over the past few months was not for its intention. Partially that was my fault, and partially it is just the nature of the beast. You can have a site like Co-Optimus that relies on content created by Bap and his other authors, and not as much by the community. Piri is entirely based on its community, so without people submitting reviews, commenting, rating, etc. it's useless. The blame also falls on me in that I wasn't focusing enough on review related content (especially after the MPC incident), and I apologize for that.

The great thing with CoG, is, it will shine more of a spotlight on Playitreviewit. We have some great plans in terms of using CoG to promote PIRI, and with that promotion, there will hopefully be more and more content created, which will hopefully lead to more users, more content, more exposure. So while Serapth may be right, that the community will be cannibalized in the short term, in the long term, I believe it will be a great help.

I think the only thing wrong with PIRI was the name- like Immortal Machines and Co-Optimus, there's a niche built right into the name. I would love to see all of us really take advantage of your excellent user review system and make PIRI the go-to place for all of our reviews.

Also I have to say thanks for providing PIRI as the temporary haven while all of this sorted itself out.

[Spigot]

Heh. People who want the P&R forum should just use EvAv's P&R forum for that kind of stuff and leave the rest over here :)

I rarely, if ever, ventured into the P&R forum. As far as I was concerned, the P&R stuff was holding tank that let everyone spew their bile and kept the political wrangling in one concentrated area and out of the main, game-related threads. If there ever does come a time that we have a P&R forum here, well, fine. I'll just ignore it like I did the P&R forum on EvAv.

I hope we try to focus a little more on games and other nerdy regalia hereabouts and can leave the political and religious discussions for either PM's, IM's or elsewhere.

[torrefaction]

I think it's a little sad that I've begun to stop caring. Clearly the admins here don't want a P&R forum, and it makes the P&R conversations feel unwelcome even if a forum were created. Luckily, a lot of the guys who I enjoy talking to seem like they're going to keep their home as PiRi, which is what I think I'll be doing.

But it's frustrating to hear people (Spigot) say things like "just use EvAv's P&R forums", because a good chunk of the active P&R posters left Evil Avatar long before this migration...all based on Evil's lack of respect for the community. You know what?

We were right.

[Bone]

Torre, bro, give it time. I think this community has already voted for the P&R. I really hope we can unite you guys over here.

[torrefaction]

Torre, bro, give it time. I think this community has already voted for the P&R. I really hope we can unite you guys over here.

The truth is I think a lot of the posters at PiRi feel disenchanted with the launch. Maybe I'm wrong, but that's the impression I've had. There was a chance to do something really big here, and it feels like just another site was launched...one that out the gate the admins had made an initial decision that basically a huge part of why that group of people likes talking to each other wasn't going to be part of the community.

I haven't even had enough time to give it a lot of thought to be honest with you. At first I was excited about the idea...then disappointed in the lack of integration and execution at launch. Now I'm a little disillusioned too.

I'm ranting, and this is probably not the place for it. Again, as I've said before, I know how much work a launch takes...and I'm perhaps being overly critical. But it's how I feel about the situation, so there's that.

[Bone]

Fair enough. But I think even Siraris agreed that even with heavy site growth, the PlayItReviewIt name itself is somewhat limiting in its mass appeal. This site has the benefit of a name that can encompass all of those things we like. If anyone doubts the power of names, just think how cool it used to be to say you were a part of Evil Avatar as opposed to, say... Blues News.

With that, I hope our new (old) mods understand that regardless of the sometimes negative connotations, the P&R forum is a place that the thriving EvAv community did bond and fight (and sometimes both) over, AND that you would be an ideal candidate to manage the potential ass-hattery. I agree with you that the unification and migration can't really be complete without it.

[Spigot]

But it's frustrating to hear people (Spigot) say things like "just use EvAv's P&R forums", because a good chunk of the active P&R posters left Evil Avatar long before this migration...all based on Evil's lack of respect for the community.Oh, I know. I was being a bit facetious. I know that most of the people who used to frequent EvAv's P&R forum were among the first to bail back in the Magic PC fiasco.

I'm just not 100% sure we need a P&R forum just yet. I never really got involved in many of the P&R threads and while I know that they were a bit more civil than a lot of places, it was still a lot of yelling... too much for me to bother with.

Just keep the arguements and Left/Right, Liberal/Democrat, whatever... keep them out of the game threads!