View Full Version : Russia adopted kid non returnable
bstiff
04-09-2010, 06:17 PM
http://www.aolnews.com/world/article/us-mother-torry-ann-hansen-ships-adopted-son-back-to-russia/19433604
Lady adopted a kid from russia, decided she couldn't handle him and shipped him back to Russia on a plane with a note. Unbelievable.
Spectre-7
04-09-2010, 06:24 PM
Lady adopted a kid from russia, decided she couldn't handle him and shipped him back to Russia on a plane with a note. Unbelievable.
Seriously, man... Russia doesn't take returns? She should report them to the Better Business Bureau. That'd show 'em.
I wouldn't be so quick. Without details it is hard to know if the "mother" was lied to by the adoption officials as she claims and if the child posed a real danger to her, her biological son or the rest of society. I would have handled this much differently than she did but I am not going to judge her without having all of the facts.
from the article
Joyce Sterkel, director of the Ranch for Kids, a Montana facility that caters to troubled Russian adoptees, says she has taken in hundreds of Russian adoptees with severe fetal alcohol syndrome and attachment disorders. "Let's stop demonizing this mother," she said. "These kids are really sick, and there's no magic number you can call for cases like this."
I wonder if the Russians will charge a restocking fee.
"As he is a Russian national, I am returning him to your guardianship and would like the adoption disannulled," the letter said.
Okay, that makes me angry. "Disannulled"? No wonder the Russians got pissed, Yakov Smirnoff spoke better English than you.
Widgetcraft
04-09-2010, 06:29 PM
Woman sues McDonalds for millions of dollars.
Never believe a one-sided news story. There is always more to it.
I would be sympathetic to this woman if she adopted a kid who had serious emotional problems. I'd be doubly sympathetic if she didn't know about those problems when she adopted the kid.
Pinning a note to his jacket addressed "To Whom It May Concern" and shipping him unaccompanied back to Russia? There goes any sympathy. It's not really possible to have a good excuse for that, and the more fucked-up the kid is, the more irresponsible it is to just throw him on an Aeroflot and hope for the best.
EDIT: Honestly, this story reminds me of nothing so much as Paddington Bear.
Spectre-7
04-09-2010, 06:43 PM
Pinning a note to his jacket addressed "To Whom It May Concern" and shipping him unaccompanied back to Russia? There goes any sympathy.
Precisely. Everyone with half a clue knows there's a protocol to be followed:
Contact Russia's technical support. When the CSR confirms that you have a defective child, they will ship you a box.
Open the box and remove the cardboard insert from inside. In the box you will also find a seal, a plastic bag and a return label.
Place child inside the plastic bag. The child may struggle; if he does, simply conk him with a shoe.
Open the cardboard insert and place the child between the two halves.
Close the cardboard insert completely and slide it into the box.
Close the box and seal it with the supplied seal.
Place the return label on the box.
Drop the box off at any local DHL location.
How complicated is that?
We don't know if she tried to contact Russian officials to have the child returned in a more official way. That is the problem with these kind of stories. We don't know the details.
Hawkzombie
04-09-2010, 07:00 PM
We don't know if she tried to contact Russian officials to have the child returned in a more official way. That is the problem with these kind of stories. We don't know the details.
No matter what the problem is with the child, that is absolutely no excuse to ship him off like he's a sweater your ordered online that showed up the wrong color. There are always other options, and she picked the worst possible. I don't need to know the circumstances that led her to this. The decision was a terrible one.
Xerxes
04-09-2010, 07:06 PM
No US kids for her to go get?
bstiff
04-09-2010, 07:15 PM
We don't know if she tried to contact Russian officials to have the child returned in a more official way. That is the problem with these kind of stories. We don't know the details.
So what if she did? Im pretty sure if she did they didn't tell her to pin a note to his jacket and throw him on a plane.
bstiff
04-09-2010, 07:16 PM
No US kids for her to go get?
Oh no. It's not trendy to adopt US kids. You have to go with what's in season. I think this years it's haitains so maybe she was just trying to exchange him.
bstiff
04-09-2010, 07:18 PM
I would be sympathetic to this woman if she adopted a kid who had serious emotional problems. I'd be doubly sympathetic if she didn't know about those problems when she adopted the kid.
Pinning a note to his jacket addressed "To Whom It May Concern" and shipping him unaccompanied back to Russia? There goes any sympathy. It's not really possible to have a good excuse for that, and the more fucked-up the kid is, the more irresponsible it is to just throw him on an Aeroflot and hope for the best.
EDIT: Honestly, this story reminds me of nothing so much as Paddington Bear.
Sending him unaccompanied is the thing that doesn't hold any water for me. You claim he's psychotic and has severe behavioral issues and you put him on a plane full of strangers by himself?
No US kids for her to go get?
Adopting within the US is extremely difficult. Younger, whiter, and healthier kids even more so. Hence the enduring popularity of Third World adoptions. Or Second World, in this case.
Xerxes
04-09-2010, 07:35 PM
Adopting within the US is extremely difficult. Younger, whiter, and healthier kids even more so. Hence the enduring popularity of Third World adoptions. Or Second World, in this case.
Wow... TV led me to believe it was just a shit ton of kids whining about not getting adopted. :confused:
Wow... TV led me to believe it was just a shit ton of kids whining about not getting adopted. :confused:
That's not at all inconsistent with what I said. There are very few healthy white babies who are waiting to be adopted. There are a shitton of 10-year-old black kids with severe psychological and physical problems who are waiting to be adopted. They are not in very much demand, and adoption authorities in the US are pretty careful about who they let take home one of those unfortunates.
Xerxes
04-09-2010, 07:44 PM
That's not at all inconsistent with what I said. There are very few healthy white babies who are waiting to be adopted. There are a shitton of 10-year-old black kids with severe psychological and physical problems who are waiting to be adopted. They are not in very much demand, and adoption authorities in the US are pretty careful about who they let take home one of those unfortunates.
WTF? Why none of them black babies ain't healthy? What's up on the fucked up white kids not from Russia? :confused::mad:
Urizen
04-09-2010, 07:46 PM
No matter what the problem is with the child, that is absolutely no excuse to ship him off like he's a sweater your ordered online that showed up the wrong color.
You filthy, fucking racist.
Hawkzombie
04-09-2010, 07:49 PM
You filthy, fucking racist.
Had I drink right now, sir, you would have made me spit it :p
WTF? Why none of them black babies ain't healthy? What's up on the fucked up white kids not from Russia? :confused::mad:
Okay. I'm going to post this again, because I do so every year or so. For those of you who think it's exaggeration, let me assure you it's not. For those of you with weak stomachs, delicate constitutions, or food in front of you, I strongly recommend backing away slowly.
Please do not click on this link unless you are mentally fortified for some very unpleasant shit.
A social worker snaps. (http://newyork.craigslist.org/about/best/sfo/65806895.html)
Those are the kids who wind up for adoption in America.
Spectre-7
04-09-2010, 07:57 PM
Please do not click on this link unless you are mentally fortified for some very unpleasant shit.
Man, that's fucked up. It's like folks don't even know what a carriage return is anymore.
Xerxes
04-09-2010, 08:18 PM
Okay. I'm going to post this again, because I do so every year or so. For those of you who think it's exaggeration, let me assure you it's not. For those of you with weak stomachs, delicate constitutions, or food in front of you, I strongly recommend backing away slowly.
Please do not click on this link unless you are mentally fortified for some very unpleasant shit.
A social worker snaps. (http://newyork.craigslist.org/about/best/sfo/65806895.html)
Those are the kids who wind up for adoption in America.
That proves nothing. I didn't here race mentioned in that craigslist ad at all. :confused:
No matter what the problem is with the child, that is absolutely no excuse to ship him off like he's a sweater your ordered online that showed up the wrong color. There are always other options, and she picked the worst possible. I don't need to know the circumstances that led her to this. The decision was a terrible one.
So what if she did? Im pretty sure if she did they didn't tell her to pin a note to his jacket and throw him on a plane.Once again I want to repeat that I would not have handled the situation in this way but if she felt this kid posed a physical threat to herself or her son she likely felt she needed to get him out of her house. "He is violent and has severe psychopathic issues/behaviors." For all we know she notified the Russian officials and told them she was placing him on the plane. This story reads like a political ploy by someone in Russia looking to ban US adoptions.
I don't know if that is the case because this story is very once-sided and sensationalized. I feel for the child that was sent back and I agree that she handled this all wrong but I'm not going to be the one to judge her actions without having the details. She could have done much worse!
bstiff
04-09-2010, 09:39 PM
Okay. I'm going to post this again, because I do so every year or so. For those of you who think it's exaggeration, let me assure you it's not. For those of you with weak stomachs, delicate constitutions, or food in front of you, I strongly recommend backing away slowly.
Please do not click on this link unless you are mentally fortified for some very unpleasant shit.
A social worker snaps. (http://newyork.craigslist.org/about/best/sfo/65806895.html)
Those are the kids who wind up for adoption in America.
Yeah that's pretty bad but it's also awfully naive to think things like that only happen to kids in the US. What happens in some of the third world countries is much much worse. Hell, in mexico I've seen 10-12 years trying to sell their younger sisters.
The story gets better:
http://www.cnn.com/2010/US/04/09/us.russian.adoption.return/index.html?hpt=P1&iref=NS1
So she talked to a lawyer ONLINE? Ill bet he comes to regret giving advice over the internet, although it sounds like he told her an adoption can be reversed but not how to go about it. The adoption agency she used never heard of any problems until they got a call from moscow? Guess she figure'd she just send him back to moscow and let them figure it out.
Hopefully the state dept take the podunk county sheriff off the case, he sounds clueless.
bstiff
04-09-2010, 09:43 PM
Once again I want to repeat that I would not have handled the situation in this way but if she felt this kid posed a physical threat to herself or her son she likely felt she needed to get him out of her house. "He is violent and has severe psychopathic issues/behaviors." For all we know she notified the Russian officials and told them she was placing him on the plane. This story reads like a political ploy by someone in Russia looking to ban US adoptions.
I don't know if that is the case because this story is very once-sided and sensationalized. I feel for the child that was sent back and I agree that she handled this all wrong but I'm not going to be the one to judge her actions without having the details. She could have done much worse!
According to the cnn article, it's not a ploy. They banned any further US adoptions on Friday.
According to the cnn article, it's not a ploy. They banned any further US adoptions on Friday.
We didn't have the CNN article earlier. :p
It sounds like a lot of fear and idiocy on the part of the "mother" that sent the boy back. She did take necessary precautions for his travel and safety but really missed the boat by not contacting the Russian authorities, or even US authorities when she felt the boy was a threat.
It's an awful story that could have ended much worse either way.
bstiff
04-09-2010, 10:10 PM
We didn't have the CNN article earlier. :p
It sounds like a lot of fear and idiocy on the part of the "mother" that sent the boy back. She did take necessary precautions for his travel and safety but really missed the boat by not contacting the Russian authorities, or even US authorities when she felt the boy was a threat.
Some of the things she did don't seem to make sense for someone who supposedly has a masters in nursing. Hell if you don't know what to do about the adoption thing, ask a hospital social worker, I've asked them some pretty bizarre questions at work and they always have an answer or know who I can get ahold of to find out.
Im wondering if the "grandmother" took a lot of this on herself by referring to both of them by their last name it makes it hard to tell who did what.
Hawkzombie
04-10-2010, 01:18 AM
So now it's been shown she simply sent him back without contacting any authorities? Good Lord.
Ox: That link was a riot, and I really dunno what to think about it, because I have no doubt in my mind it is all true.
"I know you grew up in poverty, and I sympathize with your plight. Hell, I was poor as fuck growing up. My family was broke as a motherfucker. We lived in the projects and never had no cheese for our hamburgers or nuthin. Somehow, though, we still managed to find ourselves some fucking PANTS when we went out IN PUBLIC!"
That part was my fave, however.
Cactaur
04-10-2010, 03:47 AM
In Putin Russia, kid adopts you!
Narradisall
04-10-2010, 06:43 AM
Well we don't know all the details, maybe he pulled some Spetsnaz type shit.
That proves nothing. I didn't here race mentioned in that craigslist ad at all. :confused:
Okay, I'm a little confused. Are you wondering why most American kids who are available for adoption are not white? The answer is demographics: non-whites are disproportionately represented among drug users, and because race tends to be passed down from parents to children, that means a disproportionate number of children who are taken away from their birth parents are non-white. Meanwhile, adoptive parents tend to come from the highest socioeconomic classes, in large part because it's so difficult and expensive, and in part because those are the groups where the woman is most likely to delay starting a family until she has fertility problems. The highest socioeconomic classes tend to be disproportionately white. And adoption agencies in the US have a longstanding refusal to place children with adoptive parents of a different race.
The end result is that you have a lot of white parents looking to adopt a white baby, but white babies (and especially healthy white babies) are in very short supply. There is a plentiful supply of non-white children, but relatively few non-white couples looking to adopt. Since adoption agencies have generally refused to let white couple adopt non-white children, and since many adoptive couples are looking for young healthy children who physically resemble themselves, there is an oversupply of non-white children and an undersupply of white children. Hence the enduring popularity of adopting from other countries.
@bstiff: Obviously it's not exclusive to the U.S. But many adoptive parents assume that Third World countries have a higher proportion of orphaned children as opposed to children who were taken away due to abuse. In addition, many Third World countries have a reputation for being willing to permit an American to adopt a child in far less time, with far less background checking, and for far less money than an equivalent American adoption. Whether this is true or not is almost irrelevant; what matters is that people think it is true.
You're absolutely right that child abuse is not an American invention, and in some ways we're relatively good about stopping it. Which is pretty depressing, since we suck massive balls at stopping it.
So she talked to a lawyer ONLINE? Ill bet he comes to regret giving advice over the internet
Stark terror washes over me.
Hey, fucktards. Don't do stupid-ass shit like sending a fucking kid back to Russia like he came with a 30-day money-back guarantee while claiming I said it was okay. If any of you ever take any of my advice, I will beat you to death with my dick.
bstiff
04-10-2010, 10:35 AM
@bstiff: Obviously it's not exclusive to the U.S. But many adoptive parents assume that Third World countries have a higher proportion of orphaned children as opposed to children who were taken away due to abuse. In addition, many Third World countries have a reputation for being willing to permit an American to adopt a child in far less time, with far less background checking, and for far less money than an equivalent American adoption. Whether this is true or not is almost irrelevant; what matters is that people think it is true.
You're absolutely right that child abuse is not an American invention, and in some ways we're relatively good about stopping it. Which is pretty depressing, since we suck massive balls at stopping it.
I hadn't heard about adoption agencies in the US refusing to place kids with families of different race. I've known people who have adopted black/hispanic kids in the past but I guess that's the exception. It sounds like a stupid rule, placing a kid with a family desperate to have one vs having him spend most of his childhood in an institutional setting seems like a bad decision.
I thought I read a while back that a lot of the foreign adoption agencies were under a lot of scrutiny for contributing to child trafficking in some countries.
Stark terror washes over me.
Hey, fucktards. Don't do stupid-ass shit like sending a fucking kid back to Russia like he came with a 30-day money-back guarantee while claiming I said it was okay. If any of you ever take any of my advice, I will beat you to death with my dick.
The impression I got was the only thing he told her was that it was possible to have an adoption reversed which sounds reasonable. Later, she claims she was following his instructions when she sent him back to moscow. I find it extremely hard to believe he did that. That would be like me telling someone on the internet to stop their chemo because it won't work.
I wonder if the mother will be faced with any charges. Sending a child to another country with no one accepting him on the other end sounds like abandonment to me.
ps: I just put my vietnamese daughter on a plane back to saigon with a letter saying you said it was ok.
Siraris
04-10-2010, 10:49 AM
Okay. I'm going to post this again, because I do so every year or so. For those of you who think it's exaggeration, let me assure you it's not. For those of you with weak stomachs, delicate constitutions, or food in front of you, I strongly recommend backing away slowly.
Please do not click on this link unless you are mentally fortified for some very unpleasant shit.
A social worker snaps. (http://newyork.craigslist.org/about/best/sfo/65806895.html)
Those are the kids who wind up for adoption in America.
I just want to make sure of this; did you just use an anonymous internet post to prove your point?
I'm not necessarily disagreeing with your original statement, but you don't even know that this story is true, so it probably isn't the best piece to prove your point. I read most of it, and it very easily could have been a piece of fiction that someone with a basic understanding of social work who had a bad run-in with a crack whore in the Castro put together.
Xerxes
04-10-2010, 11:22 AM
I just want to make sure of this; did you just use an anonymous internet post to prove your point?
That's how lawyers roll.
http://globesmeek.files.wordpress.com/2009/12/chewbacca.jpg
And I give up. I never was verbally equipped the I should of been to get my slight point across anyways.
ShivaX
04-10-2010, 05:00 PM
If any of you ever take any of my advice, I will beat you to death with my dick.
Well thats going to be my first sig ever.
boratika
04-11-2010, 03:40 AM
Hey, fucktards. Don't do stupid-ass shit like sending a fucking kid back to Russia like he came with a 30-day money-back guarantee while claiming I said it was okay. If any of you ever take any of my advice, I will beat you to death with my dick.
Hey, I talked to a lawyer and he gave advice and said it was perfectly okay to beat someone to death with one's dick. Well I've got next weekend planned out.
I just want to make sure of this; did you just use an anonymous internet post to prove your point?
I'm not necessarily disagreeing with your original statement, but you don't even know that this story is true, so it probably isn't the best piece to prove your point. I read most of it, and it very easily could have been a piece of fiction that someone with a basic understanding of social work who had a bad run-in with a crack whore in the Castro put together.
Well, IIRC, we've got a few social workers/ex-social workers round here. You could ask them for some of their stories.
I guess it could be fabricated, but it's no worse than stories I've heard form friends in the biz.
roboninja
04-11-2010, 06:04 AM
Well thats going to be my first sig ever.
I call bullshit. I see no such sig.
ShivaX
04-11-2010, 07:08 AM
I call bullshit. I see no such sig.
Yeah, its not retroactive if you didn't have one or something.
bstiff
04-11-2010, 11:04 AM
One thing I was wondering about was the woman who initially adopted the kid transferred her parental rights to her mother. It was her mother who actually did all this. In the case of adoptions, are parental rights transferrable or do they default back to the adoption agency? As particular as agencies are about who they approve for adoption, it seems they wouldn't be happy to find someone who has just adopted a kid signs him over to someone else. I think I've heard things in the past about kids being turned back over to the agency if things don't work out but Im not sure if there's a point when that is no longer an option.
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