Massive billing issues with Warhammer Online.

[Heretic Machine]

Just heard about this: People are seeing hundreds upon hundreds of dollars worth of charges from Warhammer Online (http://forums.warhammeronline.com/warhammer/board/message?board.id=p2psupport&thread.id=15916&view=by_date_ascending&page=1). Lots of people too, not an isolated incident. Some people are even saying that it is happening with inactive accounts, so if you've ever had a Warhammer Online account, you might want to go check to see if you are getting any unauthorized charges.

[Mike Kelehan]

Wow, some people are having their accounts overdrawn by more than $700. That's pretty serious. In addition to refunds, those people had better be given lifetime subscriptions or something.

On the other side of the coin, I didn't play WOW for six months, so when I called Blizzard and asked if a refund was possible (knowing full well they didn't have to), I was pleasantly surprised to have it all returned to me.

[Telefrog]

Can this game do anything right?

[Nura]

Can this game do anything right?

I for one thought it started out good. After launch though, it started rolling down hill.

[LongStepMantis]

Holy shit. I would hate to be them right now...that includes Mythic. The posts in that thread are coming across as a lot more than just some internet nerd rage, and justifiably. They better do something fast if they don't want their HQ burned down.

[IIntrude]

When people start talking about class actions relating to this, I will not begrudge them one bit. This is unacceptable in any way shape or form.

[Stoke]

Can this game do anything right?

It can be fun as hell. When it works, of course. Plus you can dual wield a pistol/sword as a witch hunter. That's got to count for something. ;)

[Panthera]

Can this game do anything right?

Yep. The gameplay and setting was pretty good. That counts for a lot in my book.

[Savok]

How do you fuck this up is my question, new billing software not properly tested?

[LongStepMantis]

Unless the forum goers are just rabid at this point, people are even reporting these charges on canceled accounts as well. If anyone has ever played, you should take note.

And according to this article (http://www.massively.com/2010/04/08/billing-issues-hitting-warhammer-online-and-dark-age-of-camelot/) (massively.com) posted in their forum, this billing error is affecting Dark Age of Camelot subscribers as well.

[Heretic Machine]

How do you fuck this up is my question, new billing software not properly tested?

Sounds like this is still going on; apparently people are getting a second round of charges now.

And according to this article (http://www.massively.com/2010/04/08/billing-issues-hitting-warhammer-online-and-dark-age-of-camelot/) (massively.com) posted in their forum, this billing error is affecting Dark Age of Camelot subscribers as well.

Ouch. I have a friend who is a die-hard DAoC fan... I'll have to see if he is having these problems the next time I talk to him.

[Savok]

Oh for fuck sake just turn off billing altogether.

[ClannerDelta]

Well, good work Mythic.

That's just not even remotely acceptable.

[LongStepMantis]

Oh for fuck sake just turn off billing altogether.

That seems to be the popular sentiment among their forum-goers. Especially the ones who had a dozen charges yesterday, which they reported...and then awoke today to find they had been billed a dozen times again today. One poor bastard racked up almost $1500 in charges within a 24 hour span. :eek:

So...yeah, maybe they should consider disabling their billing system.
Although it could be fun to watch the mob take justice into their own hands on the news later.

[Savok]

Hey can you tell if they have your CC saved? I did at one time have an account (quite liked it too).

I don't want to deal with this shit...

[Goronmon]

Yeah, Mythic is fucked on this. There is literally nothing they can do to make this right. Even refunding everything isn't enough as no one is going to trust their billing system not to do this all over again.

[digitalErich]

I had an account way back at launch, but checking my CCs it doesn't look like I was affected. If all of this is true, this is the kind of fuck up that could shut a company down.

[Lekon]

Long live prepaid cards?

[ClannerDelta]

My account has been canceled for half a year and I just got hit. Thanks for the heads up with this thread. Was able to tell the CC company not to accept the charges. They actually *knew* of this issue as soon as I brought it up. "Is it the Electronic Arts game?" was the response when I brought up that I'd been charged a subscription fee without reason.

I'd hate to be the unlucky individual that had this tied to their checking/debit account.

[J Arcane]

I am soooo glad my account got locked out. I had gotten a new debit card, and forgotten to change over the number, so Mythic's response to this is apparently to completely lock out your account password.

At the time, and since, I've been pissed, because I paid fifty fucking dollars for a game I can no longer access at all, but this suddenly makes me a lot happier about how things worked out.

Jesus. The news story I read from Blue's News just said there were some "billing errors". Nothing about $1500 in 24 hours.

[LongStepMantis]

I am soooo glad my account got locked out. I had gotten a new debit card, and forgotten to change over the number, so Mythic's response to this is apparently to completely lock out your account password.

At the time, and since, I've been pissed, because I paid fifty fucking dollars for a game I can no longer access at all, but this suddenly makes me a lot happier about how things worked out.

Jesus. The news story I read from Blue's News just said there were some "billing errors". Nothing about $1500 in 24 hours.

Blessing in disguise, eh?

The $1500 story is somewhere in the thread listed in the OP. I'm looking through for it again, but all I can recall was that he was from Australia, and the total was actually somewhere around ~$1390. Many, many posts where people display billing transactions in the neighborhood of $300-$800. Then there's the one about the guy who can't pay his house payment now and the bank is demanding $450 in late fees or they will repo his house, and the woman who was publicly shamed because she couldn't afford to buy her daughter a birthday cake, and a guy threatening to kill someone from Mythic because he can't pay his court fees and now has a warrant out for his arrest.

To say that this will get even uglier soon is a fucking HUGE understatement. Like I said before, it's not just current subscribers that are getting fucked here. If anyone has ever had an account with them for either game, you may be in for a shock.

My account has been canceled for half a year and I just got hit. Thanks for the heads up with this thread. Was able to tell the CC company not to accept the charges. They actually *knew* of this issue as soon as I brought it up. "Is it the Electronic Arts game?" was the response when I brought up that I'd been charged a subscription fee without reason.

I'd hate to be the unlucky individual that had this tied to their checking/debit account.

Glad you caught it at least, but that's some serious bullshit right there. Everyone should be wary.

Edit: Someone just posted this info in their official thread, so anyone who does get issues may want to read (unconfirmed at this point but still worth noting):
I just got off the phone with EA and they have stated to me that if you cancel the card number associated with the incorrect billing before they have processed the refund, you will not be getting the reversal.
So don't cancel your card or they simply won't refund you. Awesome.

Double Edit for clarity: DO make sure to contact your bank/CC company and/or dispute your charges, at the very least. I wouldn't count on them to fulfill their end on trust at this point, would you?

[ClannerDelta]

So don't cancel your card or they simply won't refund you. Awesome.

No kidding, right? "Don't cut off the pipeline to your money that we are currently using to rape your wallet. That's just totally not fair to us!"

It's especially egregious when you consider that people have been getting second and third rounds of billings. So clearly the issue isn't even fixed on their end, canceling the card just seems like the most efficient way of going about it.

[Savok]

Block the charges, if they want to take you to court welcome them to, this is going to end up a class action lawsuit anyway.

[LongStepMantis]

If nothing else, we get to see just how fast a company is capable of putting itself out of business and alienating their entire userbase. GG Mythic.

[Savok]

At least if you can cancel your card, and I can't even find a reference to my card in my account, I should be safe. Still, will need to double check tomorrow.

How this gets handled will determine the future of the game, right now I'd rank it as "not well".

[ClannerDelta]

How this gets handled will determine the future of the game, right now I'd rank it as "not well".

The game was already sparsely populated, even with the unlimited trial, I can't imagine driving away droves of your most loyal supporters is going to end well.

[Stoke]

It's a shame to see a game with so much potential go down in flames like this. This is even worse than the Age of Conan train wreck.

[Savok]

Pity, some of the most enjoyable PvP I've ever had was in that game. Lot of neat classes and ideas, *sigh*, fucking waste.

[digitalErich]

Pity, some of the most enjoyable PvP I've ever had was in that game. Lot of neat classes and ideas, *sigh*, fucking waste.
Yep, it was still the best MMO PvP I've ever played. I just hit the wall at level 20 with 4 characters...you hit the early 20s and the quality of the PvE goes down and you level sooo sloooowww. It was 80% there to being a great game.

WH PvP is years ahead of WoW's PvP game...it's too bad, there were some great ideas in there.

[Savok]

Fuck WoW's PvP, those assholes turned me off PvP in just about everything. I was actually shocked by Warhammer, "PvP can be enjoyable?!".

[Spectre-7]

The game was already sparsely populated, even with the unlimited trial, I can't imagine driving away droves of your most loyal supporters is going to end well.

Well, if the game was already on shaky legs, there's at least this silver lining: with a fuck-up this big, they've cemented their place in gaming history.

[Talanvor]

Wow, well I don't see Mythic surviving this. Even if there isn't a class action, whoever handles their CC billing is going to be royally pissed over this and I doubt the CC companies themselves are going to be happy letting it go either.

[kyrieee]

Can this game do anything right?

Public quests were a good innovation

Wow, well I don't see Mythic surviving this. Even if there isn't a class action, whoever handles their CC billing is going to be royally pissed over this and I doubt the CC companies themselves are going to be happy letting it go either.

I think that stuff tends to rely on 3rd party tech. Someone's going to eat shit though, that's for sure

[J Arcane]

Public quests were a good innovation

Unfortunately, after about the first week, no one played them.

Which is a shame, because I agree. PQs are awesome, and WAR's are still the best.

[Savok]

Public quests were fantastic, the Witchhunter class had a skill called "Burn Away Lies". Hell on that ability alone I bought the game, wasn't so much disappointed as much as I found the game pointless from my perspective.

Had the best city I've seen in a MMO as well, and most games infact, actually looked like people lived there and the population was higher then 30.

[ClannerDelta]

Unfortunately, after about the first week, no one played them.

Which is a shame, because I agree. PQs are awesome, and WAR's are still the best.

It didn't help that some wanker decided you'd need to run each PQ 10+ times to completion for the rewards. I liked the little stories and scripted events, but it loses it's luster the 7th time through. Also random loot rolls were hilariously broken.

The two times I acquired a gold bag, I had just wandered by the PQ and thrown some heals on people. I felt terrible stealing some newbs lewt.

[J Arcane]

I have maintained since launch that WAR could've been an incredible game, and a real contender for the #2 spot that seems to alternate between LOTRO and EVE depending on who you talk to.

But the PvP that so many like also was it's downfall. The players and developers both so overemphasized PvP that the PvE game was largely left to languish with unfilled promise. They had a GREAT PvE game going in the Orc and Chaos and Elf zones, up until you got past about level 15-20, at which point all the content dries completely up because the devs couldn't be arse to bother.

WAR's PvP wasn't bad, but it was still just more fucking BGs, the world PvP was as often abandoned as not, and the MMO market has demonstrated time and time again that PvP-focused games rarely do well. EVE is the only one I can think of that ever achieved anything more than niche success.

[Squidbot]

Ugh, what a monumental fuck up. People are reporting they can't buy food or afford to get to work.

[ClannerDelta]

WAR's PvP wasn't bad, but it was still just more fucking BGs, the world PvP was as often abandoned as not, and the MMO market has demonstrated time and time again that PvP-focused games rarely do well. EVE is the only one I can think of that ever achieved anything more than niche success.
It really wasn't as focused on PvP as they tried to make it sound. The huge amounts of PvE content (that went untouched) are just an example. If you're going to do PvP, do PvP. You can tack on PvP to a PvE game, but if you try the other way around you'll alienate those that want the pure fighting and you'll just have a substandard PvE game left to try and compete with every other MMO.

They didn't learn from Trials of Atlantis and they apparently hired Mr.Bean to do their billing service. I'd consider both to be serious failings.

[Savok]

Mr Bean? No.... Bill Roper? Yes.

[Ancalagon]

You know I dont see how cancelling your credit card means you are ineligible for a refund. It doesnt absolve Mythic/EA of their responsibility towards returning your money, it just makes it harder for them.

But yeah, I can smell a class action lawsuit. Possibly even a few unrelated civil suites, like from the guy who is now going to prison because they overcharged him. It sounds so absurd when you say it like that, but there it is.

I believe the feeling I'm experiencing right now could be referred to as Schadenfreude (right?).

[Heretic Machine]

Wow, well I don't see Mythic surviving this. Even if there isn't a class action, whoever handles their CC billing is going to be royally pissed over this and I doubt the CC companies themselves are going to be happy letting it go either.

Well, Mythic isn't an independent company, they're owned outright by EA who had given them the reigns for all of their MMOs (UO, DAoC, WAR). They were then sort of meshed with Bioware, and are now known as Bioware Mythic.

[LongStepMantis]

Well, Mythic isn't an independent company, they're owned outright by EA who had given them the reigns for all of their MMOs (UO, DAoC, WAR). They were then sort of meshed with Bioware, and are now known as Bioware Mythic.

Two-part question:
1)So does that mean that UO subscribers are likely getting reamed as well?
2)Are there still UO subscribers? :p

[Heretic Machine]

Two-part question:
1)So does that mean that UO subscribers are likely getting reamed as well?

I would think that it would be possible. Luckily the cards I used to play UO with back in high school are long dead. But the charges that credit card companies let through amaze me sometimes, so who the fuck knows, I could find out tomorrow that every UO subscriber ever has gotten $1500 in debt from false charges.

2)Are there still UO subscribers? :p

Depends on how much faith you put into cryptozoology.

[ClannerDelta]

This whole experience really illustrates how retarded the phrase "We're sorry for the inconvenience." is. Seeing a dozen people post about how they've been seriously overdrafted and then to see the "We're sorry for the inconvenience. See you on the battlefield! The Mythic Team." is just... harsh.

[LongStepMantis]

Yeah, I stopped playing UO around 1998 or 99, I think. If they can somehow resurrect that card from the grave, they deserve to rob me.

As for cyptozoology, of course I have faith in it. Remember Harry & The Hendersons? That was actually a documentary detailing John Lithgow's real life.

The moral of the story today seems to be: Never give your credit card to EA. Even when you have to.

[Talanvor]

Well, Mythic isn't an independent company, they're owned outright by EA who had given them the reigns for all of their MMOs (UO, DAoC, WAR). They were then sort of meshed with Bioware, and are now known as Bioware Mythic.

Oh shit, this better not fuck up ME3.

And don't you think EA is going to be really, really upset with Mythic? I doubt it's going to be candy and sunshine at the next management meeting at EA HQ.

Though I thought UO didn't have subscribers anymore, it was all free to play and the servers ran on pure nostalgia.

[Lekon]

Reading through the threads... wow. I'm not sure there are words for fuckup of this magnitude.
All we can do is watch in amazement.

So....

http://img357.imageshack.us/img357/4683/jackson20popcornaz8.gif

[kyrieee]

I took a peek in the thread too

Some guy got charged for something like 15 x 6 month subscriptions for a total of over 1000$

I don't think this is going to end pretty

[Squidbot]

like from the guy who is now going to prison because they overcharged him. It sounds so absurd when you say it like that, but there it is.

Um, what? Really?

[ShortRound]

Billing issue and then add Account Hacking (http://forums.warhammeronline.com/warhammer/board/message?board.id=p2psupport&thread.id=16154)

For once I am lost for words (And Squidbot can back me up here), this does not happen often

[Heretic Machine]

Wow...

CSR will not return items unless you can pay the gold to them for each item at vender price.

CSR will not take gold from the person who stole it so you can afford to buy stuff back.

CSR will not take any action against the person who hacked your account.

CSR did give me an option to pay for my items back as I aquired more gold.

I did not accept this as a solution and asked to be escalated higher.

CSR said I was at the highest tier of CSR.

I said so that is it that is my solution.

CSR responded that is all they could do.

I responded Thank you for CSR'ing Warhammer and have fun while playing Warhammer Online!

He reponded with the same after I told him I was unsubbing forever.

Just in case you needed another reason to never subscribe to an EA game.

[Hawkzombie]

This is completely absurd. But if some guy was charged and couldn't afford his court costs, then yes, warrants are issued in those cases. Usually it gets straightened out before any real jail time, but the police have every right to arrest him for being negligent in that area. The fact it's because of this game is insane.

Everyone simply needs to dispute the charges.

[Squidbot]

Well, I certainly won't be playing any more Mythic games. And I've even gone back to SOE. (Shut up Shortround).

[ShortRound]

Well, I certainky wo't be playing any more Mythic games. And I've even gone back to SOE. (Shut up Shortround).

tut tut **waggy finger**

[Squidbot]

;[
I can't help it. I like EQ2.

[ShortRound]

;[
I can't help it. I like EQ2.

The number of conversations I could refer you back to.... I don't know how many times I've heard you say you'll never give them another penny of your money. but anyways we digress,

As already mentioned about Bioware and Mythic now joined at the hip, this does not bode well for SWTOR

[Squidbot]

I'm weak.

Well, I imagine that this will cause a huge shake up at Ea/Mythic/Bioware.

[Stoke]

Um, what? Really?

It was mentioned earlier in the thread. Some guy had court fees to pay, Mythic took all his money so he could no longer pay them and he had a warrant put out for his arrest.

Even if you're not being thrown in jail for this it can still reek havok on your life. The was one post in that thread from a guy that had $1900 worth of charges and $900 worth of overdraft fees. I can't imagine how far up shit creak I'd be if $2800 vanished from my bank account.

EDIT: Woo, late reply. Forgot I wasn't on my computer and don't have my autoloader. Missed a whole page of replies.

[Karak]

Wow...

Just in case you needed another reason to never subscribe to an EA game.

hahahahaha. Between this and the misspelled mistyped Bioware retards in their tech department I am of the firm believe that their are simply one armed monkeys at the CSR keyboards.

[Pale Ale]

Can this game do anything right?

Well it does say Mythic right on the box.

[Savok]

hahahahaha. Between this and the misspelled mistyped Bioware retards in their tech department I am of the firm believe that their are simply one armed monkeys at the CSR keyboards.
My worry, I haven't been excited for a MMO like I am for Old Republic since Age of Conan... which I suppose says it all.

[Ancalagon]

Wow...



Just in case you needed another reason to never subscribe to an EA game.

this is something which Blizzard does so well, and it shows.

I really wonder what will happen about this. Methinks refunds for all affect plus a few free months. They might try the whole "by accepting this refund you absolve EA/Mythic of any responsibility for the fuckup." Of course, that wont stop a class action lawsuit even if they do try it.

[ClannerDelta]

this is something which Blizzard does so well, and it shows.

I really wonder what will happen about this. Methinks refunds for all affect plus a few free months. They might try the whole "by accepting this refund you absolve EA/Mythic of any responsibility for the fuckup." Of course, that wont stop a class action lawsuit even if they do try it.
After this fuck up, I doubt free gametime will matter. Though, I've been told they finally added a second ramp to sieges. I'd be tempted to log in just to see the evidence that they managed to free their skulls from the grip of their vicelike rectums for long enough to do something right. Of course, they promptly re-contracted their Cranial Rectumitis as shown by this episode.

[SilentScreams]

WAR had so much potential, but was ruined for me by the fact that I didn't have a PC that could run it right away, and when I got one I'd missed the wave of people levelling, and all the zones up to about level 30 were empty.

I think I should be fine with the billing thing, as I used an old card to pay for WAR which has now been deactivated and replaced by one with a different number.

[kyrieee]

Some guy got billed for 900,000$
Sucks to be him hehe

[tacitus]

WTF - why didn't they turning off the billing system? This is crazy. This has been going on since the at least the 7th.

[Ohhh ... I stand corrected - I was reading the board and some guy posted 2010-03-22 as a date on his initial bill]

When this kind of shit happens and goes unnoticed - someone needs to go to jail. Serious investigation needs to happen.

[ClannerDelta]

This (http://i974.photobucket.com/albums/ae227/sjvoorhees/ealol.jpg) picture had me laughing pretty hard.

No thanks EA, I think I'm good for now. All told, people seem to be taking this better than I would had I been really effected.

[kyrieee]

When this kind of shit happens and goes unnoticed - someone needs to go to jail. Serious investigation needs to happen.

I haven't read the law but I think a screwup of this magnitude should get whatever business license you're holding revoked. They're evidently not capable of responsibly handling people's credit card info

[Narradisall]

Wow....

I mean... wow.

Some of those charges were insane. I can easily see some people not being able to eat or afford anything with them losing 600+ in the matter of days. Jesus christ. I mean what an epic fuck up.

As mentioned before, this could bury a company. Which is a shame since Mythic do great PvP MMOs.

[tacitus]

Yeah ...

I can understand and even forgive within reason weird shit happening, but not weird shit happening for like 3 weeks!

[Squidbot]

Holy crap, I just checked the thread again, and someone has been charged again today.
TURN. IT. OFF.

[RandoM51]

Can this game do anything right?

Tomes! This message is too short, even though the tome is anything but.

[H.Bogard]

Wow, I have no words. Any sources where I can keep up-to-date on this as it develops?

[ClannerDelta]

Wow....

I mean... wow.

Some of those charges were insane. I can easily see some people not being able to eat or afford anything with them losing 600+ in the matter of days. Jesus christ. I mean what an epic fuck up.

As mentioned before, this could bury a company. Which is a shame since Mythic do great PvP MMOs.

My favorite part is when you get the serious fanboys trying to blame the people for not having a budget that can take a random $1000+ charge.

Granted, I wouldn't leave my budget that tight, but not everyone is fortunate enough to have a steady job.

[DoctorFinger]

I put up a front page post on this, directing further comments here.

And it's completely unacceptable that charges are still being made 2 full days after the fact.

[Narradisall]

My favorite part is when you get the serious fanboys trying to blame the people for not having a budget that can take a random $1000+ charge.

Granted, I wouldn't leave my budget that tight, but not everyone is fortunate enough to have a steady job.

Well, I suppose if you can all afford these $60 games then a $1000 lump sum should be nothing right? ;)

It wouldn't make me go overdrawn, and I know I'd get the money back, but damn, it's just not defensible!

The best they can hope for is a quick and clean resolution, profuse apologies and a slight bit of prayer that the gamers won't light up the torches and advance like a plague of locust. We get tetchy over the *belief* that some little insignificant problem is coming our way. God knows how being bent over a table and anal probed to such an extent that you'd have to explain to your boss why you couldn't make it into work because your game service wallet raided you would be interesting.

Acutally, I'd love to hear someone do that...

[Squidbot]

To quote one irate player, that posted this morning, after being billed again:
How can you possibly have your lines closed when something like this is going on? Unbelievable...

To which a Mythic employee replied:
I'm not sure of the circumstances behind your situation; however, our Billing Support line is just opening up now.

[Savok]

Place should be manned 24/7, pay them double time if you must.

[Shadowstorm]

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4005/4503779597_c59bc957c1_b.jpg

Zoom in on this. This dude got charged 52 times for a total of $2124.12.

[Chaos Machine]

I personally got hit up 9 times by those pigfuckers

[J Arcane]

There is no fucking excuse in the world for them to not turn off their billing servers at this point. None. At this point, with them in full knowledge of the problem, leaving them running amounts to deliberate theft.

[Squidbot]

Quote from "JamesMythic" in the main thread, in answer to bank charges:
Ultimately its up to your bank to make the decision

[Savok]

Well, that's that.

Goodbye Warhammer, you had some neat ideas and looked really cool, but you got caught with your penis in the piggy bank, you will be missed.

[J Arcane]

Quote from "JamesMythic" in the main thread, in answer to bank charges:
I would almost bet money at this point they're just hoping enough people won't notice or contest the charges, so they can pocket the cash, or at least sit on it long enough to collect some fat interest.

Fucking bunch of useless crooks. I hope they get sued into oblivion over this.

[Stoke]

Quote from "JamesMythic" in the main thread, in answer to bank charges:

That's a pretty dishonest "quote" and not something I'd expect from you.

Ultimately its up to your bank to make the decision, but we'll help in anyway we can to explain the situation to them.

He's talking about what Mythic will do to get your bank to waive overdraft fees. It would be insane for Mythic to take on all the fees themselves without first trying to have your bank waive them. Then of course they've already stated that if they do not reverse the fees they'll reimburse you.

Anyone else get the "Free 7 day trial" of WoW email? Seems Blizzard is taking advantage of Mythic's failure. ;)

[ClannerDelta]

Then of course they've already stated that if they do not reverse the fees they'll reimburse you.

Have they? There's a lot of talk about trying to get your bank to understand, but I haven't seen any reference to them actually forking the money over to cover costs if your bank decides to tell them to fuck off.

Your own quote essentially says that if your bank wont reverse the charges, they will ask your bank very nicely to do so.

[Squidbot]

How is my quote dishonest? The word ultimately is pretty definitive.

[ClannerDelta]

vsNlJhq6bjs&feature=email

Take it with a grain of salt, but it's pretty entertaining.

[Stoke]

How is my quote dishonest? The word ultimately is pretty definitive.

You're right, it is definitive. And "James" is right too. Ultimately it is up to your bank. Mythic can not force your bank to waive the fees. That is what his post was about. He said nothing about you not getting your money back.

This is a post earlier in the thread about the the internal process they CSRs are going through.

Subject: Warhammer Overdraft Process

1. Tier 1 agent will get call from customer who said their bank will not refund the overdraft fees. Tier 1 agent will then need to create a RNW ticket, put the ticket into the IGS Pogo – Holding 3 queue, set the ticket to unresolved, and will need to gather the following information and add it into the notes private notes field:

· Account Name(s)

· Total overdraft charges account(s) acquired

· Credit Card Number and Expiration Date

· Verify Credit Card and Expiration Date matches information in copter

· Name of bank

· The phone number of the bank

· The fax number of the bank

2. Tier 1 agent will need to make customer aware of what steps we will be taking:

· We will be contacting the bank via fax and phone to confirm that they will not process the refund for the overdraft fees.

· We will verify the amount with the bank.

· We will process a refund that should be reflected on their bank account within 7 days.

3. Tier 2 Process

a. Agent will have to fill in the fax forum.

b. Send the fax over to the bank.

c. Call up the bank and ask the bank to drop the overdraft charges. Make sure to take down the bank agent you talked with.

4. Tier 2 Process if Bank will not drop the charges:

a. Tier 2 agent will need to ask bank what is the total amount of overdraft charges that the customer acquired.

b. Tier 2 agent will need to document the following in a copter ticket:

· Account Name(s)

· Bank will not refund overdraft fees.

· Fill in name of bank. Fill in agent you talked with.

· Total amount of overdraft charges the customer has acquired: $x.xx

· Attach a copy of the fax that was sent over to the bank

c. Assign the copter ticket to Tier 4 queue.

2 more posts on the issue.

We may compensate additional fees incurred; however, this cannot be done until after the charges have been reversed and reflected in your account and after you request from your financial institution to have these fees removed.

If you are unsuccessful in having these fees removed yourself we ask you contact billing support at the below number; however, we cannot assist you until your bank reflects the reversed charges.

I need to say may as this will vary; but in the situations where this mistake directly caused the fees and an individuals financial institution has refused to remove the fees after the charges have been reversed we will likely be able to provide assistance.

[ClannerDelta]

You're right, it is definitive. And "James" is right too. Ultimately it is up to your bank. Mythic can not force your bank to waive the fees. That is what his post was about. He said nothing about you not getting your money back.

Yes, and not one of those gives any sort of guarantee to the consumer that their charges will be taken care of.

I understand what you're trying to say, but it's just not the case. Maybe, likely, and possibly simply aren't what people who've just had their accounts overdrawn into the dirt are looking for or expecting. This is a company that verifies that your personal information will be secure and then this happens. You'll have to excuse me if I'm extremely skeptical of their willingness to put this right by their customers.

I've been dealing with them since yesterday and they wont even guarantee that my Credit Card number is no longer in the system.

[Stoke]

Yes, and not one of those gives any sort of guarantee to the consumer that their charges will be taken care of.

I understand what you're trying to say, but it's just not the case. Maybe, likely, and possibly simply aren't what people who've just had their accounts overdrawn into the dirt are looking for or expecting. This is a company that verifies that your personal information will be secure and then this happens. You'll have to excuse me if I'm extremely skeptical of their willingness to put this right by their customers.

I've been dealing with them since yesterday and they wont even guarantee that my Credit Card number is no longer in the system.

But saying their position on the matter is "It's your bank's problem" isn't true. With as shitty as this situation is there is no reason to make it even worse by exaggeration.

[ClannerDelta]

But saying their position on the matter is "It's your bank's problem" isn't true. With as shitty as this situation is there is no reason to make it even worse by exaggeration.
Then of course they've already stated that if they do not reverse the fees they'll reimburse you.
And you've posted an equally "dishonest" response, so I'd just suggest you drop it. At least his post is in keeping with their official response and actions at the moment.

[Libuke]

I've been keeping a close eye on my credit card since you posted this and thankfully it appears that I have not been charged and I hope it stays that way.

I still cannot believe that it has gone on for multiple days.

[roboninja]

If their billing system is still on, and functioning in this manner, I can see charges of a criminal nature as a possibility. They would deserve it.

[LongStepMantis]

Shit. People are still getting charges!? Wtf is wrong with them, disable your fucking billing already!

At this rate, this will be how their players get justice:
https://tc2.wikispaces.com/file/view/guillotine.jpg/32021821/guillotine.jpg
I wouldn't blame them.

[bstiff]

Oh shit, this better not fuck up ME3.

And don't you think EA is going to be really, really upset with Mythic? I doubt it's going to be candy and sunshine at the next management meeting at EA HQ.

Though I thought UO didn't have subscribers anymore, it was all free to play and the servers ran on pure nostalgia.

Id be more worried about the effect on TOR as I imagine they would use EA to handle their sub billing.

I smell a plot by cryptic to abort TOR before it's born in order to save STO. :)

What's with all the $41 charges? Is that like a 3 month sub or something?

[LongStepMantis]

A large number of the affected players have evidently contacted FOX News about this fuckup, and from what they say (which could be bs, but still) FOX was very eager to cover a story about a video game defrauding people.

Sleeping with the enemy and all that, but you know what they say, the enemy of my enemy is my friend.

What do ya know, the Mythic employees posting in the thread are no longing ending their posts with smileys. I wonder why? :p

[Deadend]

uhh, how do I check if I was billed? I know I can in theory go to my credit cards site, but I tried checking via the EaMythic site and there is no billing history option, there is an option to give them a credit card.. but fuck that.

[LongStepMantis]

A large number of the affected players have evidently contacted FOX News about this fuckup, and from what they say (which could be bs, but still) FOX was very eager to cover a story about a video game defrauding people.

Sleeping with the enemy and all that, but you know what they say, the enemy of my enemy is my friend.

What do ya know, the Mythic employees posting in the thread are no longing ending their posts with smileys. I wonder why? :p

Edit: I had to laugh at this quote, sorry to all in this boat:
They've changed the subscription model to charge you what it would cost to actually play tabletop warhammer

[ClannerDelta]

uhh, how do I check if I was billed? I know I can in theory go to my credit cards site, but I tried checking via the EaMythic site and there is no billing history option, there is an option to give them a credit card.. but fuck that.

It's not guaranteed, but my account was reactivated when they charged me. So you could check to see if your account is active (assuming it wasn't). If it is, I'd suggest contacting your credit card company as soon as possible.

[bstiff]

It's not guaranteed, but my account was reactivated when they charged me. So you could check to see if your account is active (assuming it wasn't). If it is, I'd suggest contacting your credit card company as soon as possible.

Both my daoc and war accounts are showing closed. If you get billed, does it show up in the activity area? I checked my debit/credit cards and didn't see anything. I may have used an older card that I never renewed so i don't think those charges would go through.

[ClannerDelta]

Both my daoc and war accounts are showing closed. If you get billed, does it show up in the activity area? I checked my debit/credit cards and didn't see anything. I may have used an older card that I never renewed so i don't think those charges would go through.

It says open on my WAR account with a single charge like a regular subscription. Though I was charged 14 times, so it obviously isn't updating correctly anyway. :p

It's not fool proof, but it's something you can check if you're really worried.

[bstiff]

It says open on my WAR account with a single charge like a regular subscription. Though I was charged 14 times, so it obviously isn't updating correctly anyway. :p

It's not fool proof, but it's something you can check if you're really worried.

My other card would come back as expired if they tried to charge it so I think Im ok. Ill keep a close watch on my accounts though.

Reminds me of the billing fiasco with hellgate where people were getting charged 10+ times for lifetime subs. I guess just another reason to use ONLY credit cards not debit when online.

[MagGnome]

Well, that's that.

Goodbye Warhammer, you had some neat ideas and looked really cool, but you got caught with your penis in the piggy bank, you will be missed.

This made me laugh out loud. What an absurdly hilarious image!


This is a screw-up of such monumental proportions that I can barely wrap my mind around it. The response from Mythic is pathetic, but I'm hardly surprised that a company would react in such a manner.

[bstiff]

This made me laugh out loud. What an absurdly hilarious image!


This is a screw-up of such monumental proportions that I can barely wrap my mind around it. The response from Mythic is pathetic, but I'm hardly surprised that a company would react in such a manner.

what baffles me is that once it was found to not be an isolated incident and people were getting billing multiple times on multiple days, why didn't they suspend their billing until the problem was fixed? I think people started reporting problems at the end of March and they didn't do anything until the first week of April?

[SilentScreams]

I wonder what this means for Mythic's future.
They are purely an MMO developer, but I really doubt anyone is going to trust them with credit/debit card details in the future.

[bstiff]

I wonder what this means for Mythic's future.
They are purely an MMO developer, but I really doubt anyone is going to trust them with credit/debit card details in the future.

Hopefully bioware doesn't plan on using the same billing service. Star Wars or not, this could be a big deal breaker for people who would buy TOR. I know it is for me.

I saw on one of the posts they had a similar episode last year though not as wide spread. Why didn't they look into things then?

[MagGnome]

Bioware and Mythic are tied together now, so I would be reticent to give them my CC or bank account information.

I never even considered this happening before. Hopefully Fallen Earth isn't using the same vendor.

Someone in the thread made a good point about companies shipping labor overseas. The vendor is probably in India or something, which makes this issue even harder to pin down. The last company I worked for outsourced a ton of jobs to India, and work quality suffered as a result. They saved money though, so they didn't give a shit.

[Nura]

Also, i didn't think i'd ever say this. But thank god i had to get warhammer through GOA.

[Narradisall]

Is this still going? I haven't been through the thread with a fine tooth comb yet, but have they even figured out what the problem is? Whats actually causing it to repeat over and over. I saw people mention they may have outsourced, so they are still having problems tracking where this is going wrong?

I'm waiting on the 'xxx sue's mythic' story.

[bstiff]

Is this still going? I haven't been through the thread with a fine tooth comb yet, but have they even figured out what the problem is? Whats actually causing it to repeat over and over. I saw people mention they may have outsourced, so they are still having problems tracking where this is going wrong?

I'm waiting on the 'xxx sue's mythic' story.

I didn't see anything from mythic about it but some players over there have been told by their banks that the charges were submitted multiple times using the same authorization number. If that's true, it's odd that more banks didn't flag this as suspicious activity and block them before they verified the charges with the customer.

I've had my visa block and call me on charges I'd made on steam that appeared fairly benign. A bank not catching that same charge repeated 20+ times in the space of a few seconds to minutes seems odd.

There have been a lot of posts about people talking to attorneys on there how much is just bluster is hard to say. I would think the people that have had their accounts over drawn and are recieving returned check fee/late payment fees would be entitiled to reimbursement for those fees as well as any imposed by their banks.

[CappinCanuck]

My other card would come back as expired if they tried to charge it so I think Im ok. Ill keep a close watch on my accounts though.



Ditto, the card I used for DAOC is long gone. But still... gonna be vigilant.

[Nura]

I didn't see anything from mythic about it but some players over there have been told by their banks that the charges were submitted multiple times using the same authorization number. If that's true, it's odd that more banks didn't flag this as suspicious activity and block them before they verified the charges with the customer.

I've had my visa block and call me on charges I'd made on steam that appeared fairly benign. A bank not catching that same charge repeated 20+ times in the space of a few seconds to minutes seems odd.

There have been a lot of posts about people talking to attorneys on there how much is just bluster is hard to say. I would think the people that have had their accounts over drawn and are recieving returned check fee/late payment fees would be entitiled to reimbursement for those fees as well as any imposed by their banks.

I just wanted to add to this, that my bank has several times blocked my card because i play alot of mmo's (often 3 different ones a month) and they thought all those withdrawals were kind of fishy.

[Narradisall]

Yeah, I would have thought. I mean my bank phones me when I make a few big transactions in a day, because of 'suspicious activity' (though I always just thought that meant they think I'm a tight bastard).

How banks didn't notice these charges is worrying.

[bstiff]

Yeah, I would have thought. I mean my bank phones me when I make a few big transactions in a day, because of 'suspicious activity' (though I always just thought that meant they think I'm a tight bastard).

How banks didn't notice these charges is worrying.

The only thing I can think of is that the had verified them as valid charges in the past with the card holder and just let them on through.

[MagGnome]

Many banks are sadly more interested in charging fees and pushing up shareholder value than they are in actually safeguarding the accounts of their customers.

[Hawkzombie]

This is why people need to be part of a credit union. No shareholders to answer to, and profits are actually turned back onto the customers in the vein of better rates and %'s

[Karmakin]

Many banks are sadly more interested in charging fees and pushing up Upper Management Bonuses than they are in actually safeguarding the accounts of their customers.

Fixed that for you. :p

[Pale Ale]

I wonder what this means for Mythic's future.
They are purely an MMO developer, but I really doubt anyone is going to trust them with credit/debit card details in the future.

IIRC it was 3rd or 4th quarter last year? About the time the EA board realized their yearly bonuses were in danger. Mythic got gutted, I'm pretty sure there is enough staff to make sure the "wheels stay greased" and that's about it.

[Narradisall]

Many banks are sadly more interested in charging fees and pushing up shareholder value than they are in actually safeguarding the accounts of their customers.

I don't buy it. Usually they are hot on these types of transactions as they could be fraudulent, which, most of the time ends up with the bill being footed by the bank.

Sure, banks love to see you get into debt and charge you for the overdraft fees etc, but the way these transactions were coming through, sometimes up to 20 a day) it should have set off an alarm bell or two.

[MagGnome]

Fixed that for you. :p

Ha! Fair enough. :p


I don't buy it. Usually they are hot on these types of transactions as they could be fraudulent, which, most of the time ends up with the bill being footed by the bank.

Sure, banks love to see you get into debt and charge you for the overdraft fees etc, but the way these transactions were coming through, sometimes up to 20 a day) it should have set off an alarm bell or two.

I agree that it should have set off alarm bells, but sadly many banks just don't pay attention or don't seem to care.

When I lived in Lincoln the place I banked at was great. They even called me to alert me to the fact that my debit card/bank account had been compromised. They had already frozen the transactions and issued me a new card, which was great.

My next bank, however (here in the TC), let someone else clear a check out of my account that OBVIOUSLY had NOTHING to do with me whatsoever, then they charged me multiple overdraft fees as a result. I had to go down to the bank and spend over an hour talking to some guy who couldn't have been older than 18. Finally after going round and round they admitted that they had made an error and refunded my account. I was not impressed.

[Narradisall]

I guess your right Mags. I too have a similar bank to you (well your first one) which have called me before and put a stop to things before it could even get bad. Two were just false alarms where I'd spent a fair bit of cash.

I guess that's why I find this so ridiculous. I know it isn't the banks fault, but yeah, they are either incompetant or quite happy to let you run into a ton of debt whether it's legit or not. Bad, bad times.

[Savok]

I see Australian banking practices have spread around the world.

[Hawkzombie]

I don't buy it. Usually they are hot on these types of transactions as they could be fraudulent, which, most of the time ends up with the bill being footed by the bank.

Sure, banks love to see you get into debt and charge you for the overdraft fees etc, but the way these transactions were coming through, sometimes up to 20 a day) it should have set off an alarm bell or two.

I had one that charged me 300 dollars in overdraft fees because of fraudulent purchases. They only reversed half of that because they couldn't be sure the other fees were us or not.