Watchmen movie [Major Spoilers!]

[Zero]

I'm gonna blather on for a little bit before I type it so that the little hover-over-link preview doesn't spill the beans. Recently, Warner Brothers screened the full thing and wrapped up everything tightly with NDAs, but some people let out small impressions of what went on, especially the ending. Keeping in mind that Snyder could have filmed the original ending and that he could pull a gotcha.

There is no giant mutated squid. Ozymandias and Dr. Manhattan had earlier co-developed a machine that replicated Dr. Manhattan's energy. Ozymandias uses it to destroy several cities, framing Manhattan in the process. Dr. Manhattan is complicit in the act, and still kills Rorschach. That little shot of Nite Owl screaming in the snow during the trailer, is the reaction to Rorschach's murder.

[Hotcod]

i'm not going to read the spoliers as it will be nice to be surprised by how the end comes about... i'm taking it that the reasons and the outcome are still intact it's just how it's pulled off that's different, which kind of makes me happy... there where reasons for the tool used at the end of watchmen but ones that are some what dated and much more about comics books them selfs than anything to really do with the plot as such other than the tie ins with other things that will be missing anyway. So long as the idea and outcome is intact i don't mind a change to the means, in the case of the ending at lest

[Young Al Capone]

I really hope the original ending is intact.

[Whunpo]

Uuugh....I don't like that. I'll wait till I see the whole movie till I pass judgement, but that does not sound like Watchmen to me. And this is why Alan Moore doesn't like his books being made into movies. I really don't blame him.
PLEASE don't be as bad as I think it will
The more I think about this, the worse it seems. The book was so incredible because of that ending. Without that ending, it would have simply been a decent graphic novel. I'm really disappointed.

[Disgustipated]

This actually sounds fine. I might be a Watchmen fanboy but I approve. It's definitely a neat take on the ending.

But yeah, the original ending was incredible.

[Whunpo]

This actually sounds fine. I might be a Watchmen fanboy but I approve. It's definitely a neat take on the ending.

But yeah, the original ending was incredible.Normally, it would sound fine. It doesn't sound like it's that bad. But I don't trust anyone changing the Watchmen story who isn't Alan Moore. Nobody should be trying to fine tune Watchmen.

[Disgustipated]

Normally, it would sound fine. It doesn't sound like it's that bad. But I don't trust anyone changing the Watchmen story who isn't Alan Moore. Nobody should be trying to fine tune Watchmen.

God, quit your bitchin'.. The Watchmen isn't the Bible. Just be happy that we're getting a kick ass movie. Moore is fucking crazy anyways. Maybe if he wasn't he could have helped them make an even better movie.

[muddi900]

They can't make a better movie. Hollywood lost its balls in 1982. That's why V for Vendetta went from anarchist love song to hollywood liberal crap.

[Mr. Murphy]

They can't make a better movie. Hollywood lost its balls in 1982. That's why V for Vendetta went from anarchist love song to hollywood liberal crap.

Alan Moore talks a big line about his character being an anarchist, not a hero, and his book being different from the "Bush-age parable" the movie became... but I've had the trade paperback for ten years, and when the movie came out, I never saw a difference. No one has yet been able to show me how the V in the book was any different from the V in the movie - when did he do or say something in one that he wouldn't have in the other?

As far as the Watchmen ending goes, my knee-jerk reaction was to be pretty upset, but the more I think about it, the original ending probably WOULD seem a little out-of-place on the screen. When I first finished the comics, it was a splendid WTF moment, but perhaps on screen it came off as the BAD kind of WTF moment. This new ending sounds like it fits, it accomplishes the same things with the plot and delivers the same message, just without the giant squid. I don't think it's as drastic of a change as some people think.

Still, I would prefer to see the original ending, so I still hope he's just trying to hide it, or at least will include it on the DVD.

[Young Al Capone]

If it is on the DVD that is cool I guess, I am just of the opinion that the ending was that way for a reason. It was all part of the theme.

Hidden for those who aren't familiar with the story.
Like the costumes, the heros actually felt silly wearing them sometimes. I feel like the ending was as much a throw back to over the top comics of yesterday as it was a narrative device. It might seem WTF, but I always saw that as sort of the point. Even Night Owl cannot believe that Ozymandias might try something so seemingly crazy, but he does and it works. The lie just has to be big enough.

Not only that, but if the ending is what they say, then why would the world unite against Dr. Manhattan and not the USA. I mean, he was the USAs main guy, he advanced technology and kept Russia from attacking for like 20 years. Even if he did attack US cities, why would anyone else intervene?


However maybe that is the reason, it works in a comic but not on screen. I don't like it, and would really like to see the original ending, but whatever. It looks awesome.

[Whunpo]

Alan Moore talks a big line about his character being an anarchist, not a hero, and his book being different from the "Bush-age parable" the movie became... but I've had the trade paperback for ten years, and when the movie came out, I never saw a difference. No one has yet been able to show me how the V in the book was any different from the V in the movie - when did he do or say something in one that he wouldn't have in the other?
Read the book again. V is very blatant about the fact that he is an Anarchist. He says it. Multiple times.
In the movie, it isn't even really implied. V just blows up a building because the government was mean. I doubt the movie ever even mentions Anarchy.

[muddi900]

Alan Moore talks a big line about his character being an anarchist, not a hero, and his book being different from the "Bush-age parable" the movie became... but I've had the trade paperback for ten years, and when the movie came out, I never saw a difference. No one has yet been able to show me how the V in the book was any different from the V in the movie - when did he do or say something in one that he wouldn't have in the other?


It wasn't the character in itself but the story. Its like they loved the story, but they never really "got" it. The villians were now evil neo-cons instead of right wing fascists, the "revolution" started with "America's War" instead of a post-nueclear war scenario. that voice of London guy was something out of Fox News and worst of all, instead of V fighting an ideology, he was fighting a dictator. While I don't remember correctly, I think he was fighting for "freedom" in the movie. One might argue that the changes were made in the interest of relevance, but 10 years from now, the graphic novel will still be relevant but the movie will not be. It's not a bad movie, but it is a timely piece of cinema that is already too old and irrelevant.

I fear Watchmen will get a similar treatment. The story and characters will be there, but the essence won't be. Although, Malin Akerman's ass is a nice trade off:D

EDIT: I should've just QFT'd Whunpo.

[The Doctor]

I've sat through a lot of discussion on this matter, and it's been pretty enlightening. Discussions about how the original deconstructed comics, and thus the admittedly silly and out of left field squid was quite justified as part of that justification, etc.

One issue is that if there's no alien menace being fabricated, there's no island for artists for The Comedian to stumble upon, and thus no reason for him to be murdered, setting off the whole plot.

They'll probably change it so that he instead stumbles across the real purpose for these devices, and that's what leads to the events of the movie..

The Comedian was such a fascinating character in the graphic novel. A total absurdist, in that he saw the absurdity in the world around him, and thus inspired Veidt to do what must be done. I need to re-read the graphic novel, but I think his breakdown after realizing Veidt's plan was part horror at the scale of it, and part horror at realizing it could possibly work, thus justifying his personal beliefs.

Hell, the characters are all fascinating. That's why it's such a great comic.

[Whunpo]

EDIT: I should've just QFT'd Whunpo.

I thought the same thing after reading your post. Well said. :)

[muddi900]

The Comedian was such a fascinating character in the graphic novel. A total absurdist, in that he saw the absurdity in the world around him, and thus inspired Veidt to do what must be done. I need to re-read the graphic novel, but I think his breakdown after realizing Veidt's plan was part horror at the scale of it, and part horror at realizing it could possibly work, thus justifying his personal beliefs.

Hell, the characters are all fascinating. That's why it's such a great comic.

His breakdown was due to the fact that he believed in his absurdist ways that everything was a joke. Not a funny joke, but a joke nonetheless. When he discovered that plan he was shaken by the fact that it wasn't a joke, it was all "real".

[Widgetcraft]

If the original ending is on the DVD, I'll buy the DVD. If the original ending isn't on the DVD, I'll rent it. I won't be seeing this in the theaters since it sounds like they've already fucked it up, big time. I'm not even one of these people who nitpick shit like this, I would have accepted a slightly different ending, but what they've done seems to completely change certain character dynamics.

Whatever, it's his movie, he can do what he wants; don't expect me to go along.

[Mr. Murphy]

Read the book again. V is very blatant about the fact that he is an Anarchist. He says it. Multiple times.
In the movie, it isn't even really implied. V just blows up a building because the government was mean. I doubt the movie ever even mentions Anarchy.

Just saying you are an anarchist doesn't make you one, and not saying you are an anarchist doesn't stop you from being one. He DID the same things in both the comic and the movie, regardless of why he said he was doing it.

It wasn't the character in itself but the story. Its like they loved the story, but they never really "got" it. The villians were now evil neo-cons instead of right wing fascists, the "revolution" started with "America's War" instead of a post-nueclear war scenario. that voice of London guy was something out of Fox News and worst of all, instead of V fighting an ideology, he was fighting a dictator. While I don't remember correctly, I think he was fighting for "freedom" in the movie. One might argue that the changes were made in the interest of relevance, but 10 years from now, the graphic novel will still be relevant but the movie will not be. It's not a bad movie, but it is a timely piece of cinema that is already too old and irrelevant.

I fear Watchmen will get a similar treatment. The story and characters will be there, but the essence won't be. Although, Malin Akerman's ass is a nice trade off:D

You are both correct in your facts, but we seem to have gotten different final results from our math. It was pretty clear in the movie that V was fighting an ideology as well as the government that manifested that ideology, just like in the comic. I got the same powerful emotion from the book when Evee had her moment at the very end as I did when the crowd walked up the the guards in the movie. I guess I don't see a difference between the right wing fascists and the evil neo-cons, or the difference between fighting for anarchy and fighting for the freedom of not having a government (a situation that could only be described as an anarchistic state) and I don't mind the minor plot details they changed, because all in all, I DID get the spirit of the comic from the movie. I left the theater feeling very pleasantly surprised, having re-read the comic the week before. I dunno, I guess if it didn't do it for you it didn't do it for you, but I just judged V in the comic much more on what he did than what he said - and what he did was topple an evil government, which made him a hero in my book. He was as much an anarchist in the movie as he was in the book, even tho he might not have declared himself one. After all, he didn't topple the government in order to replace it with a new one.

To get back on track, my feelings about V for Vendetta actually give me a lot of hope for Watchmen, but I really really really want the original ending, and I am very worried that this is going to do exactly what you guy said, and remove the spirit from the movie.

Edit: "what he did was topple an evil government... but he didn't act like an anarchist." I just contradicted myself there, didn't I? Rephrased for clarity.

[muddi900]

Just saying you are an anarchist doesn't make you one. He DID the same things in both movies, regardless of why he said he was doing it. I don't think Mr. Moore was exactly clear on what anarchy really was when he started throwing that word around.

:eek:

So,just because I say I like pancakes doesn't mean I actually do?

NINJA EDIT:
You are both correct in your facts, but we seem to have gotten different final results from our math. It was pretty clear in the movie that V was fighting an ideology as well as the government that manifested that ideology, just like in the comic. I got the same powerful emotion from the book when Evee had her moment at the very end as I did when the crowd walked up the the guards in the movie. I guess I don't see a difference between the right wing fascists and the evil neo-cons, or the difference between fighting for anarchy and fighting for the freedom of not having a government (a situation that could only be described as an anarchistic state) and I don't mind the minor plot details they changed, because all in all, I DID get the spirit of the comic from the movie. I left the theater feeling very pleasantly surprised, having re-read the comic the week before. I dunno, I guess if it didn't do it for you it didn't do it for you, but I just judged V in the comic much more on what he did than what he said - and what he did was topple an evil government, which made him a hero in my book. He was as much an anarchist in the movie as he was in the book, even tho he might not have declared himself one. After all, he didn't topple the government in order to replace it with a new one.

To get back on track, my feelings about V for Vendetta actually give me a lot of hope for Watchmen, but I really really really want the original ending, and I am very worried that this is going to do exactly what you guy said, and remove the spirit from the movie.

Edit: "what he did was topple an evil government... but he didn't act like an anarchist." I just contradicted myself there, didn't I? Rephrased for clarity.

But the "minor" plot changes were just to make the movie "current". And now that a
Democrat is elected President, its already irrelevant.

As for Watchmen, if they have "god is real..." in the movie, they've done the best they could. I don't believe Moore's assertion that his comic books are un-filmable. But Watchmen is, and the best they can do is make it as good as Dark Knight.


PS: V was a terrorist. He was never a hero.

[Mr. Murphy]

:eek:

So,just because I say I like pancakes doesn't mean I actually do.


Not if you say it while eating a pile of waffles. :D I edited my previous post a little to make it a little clearer.

I get what you mean about it not being a character driven book, but we'll have to agree to disagree. V was the driving force behind everything that happened in that book and every subplot was tied around him. In some ways, the comic was the story of V creating another V.

We both loved it, I guess I just loved the movie as well, and that flick does have a different ending from the comic, so I'll certainly give Watchmen a shot - if it's a good movie on it's own terms, I'll give it a bit of slide room.

[muddi900]

Not if you say it while eating a pile of waffles. :D I edited my previous post a little to make it a little clearer.

I get what you mean about it not being a character driven book, but we'll have to agree to disagree. V was the driving force behind everything that happened in that book and every subplot was tied around him. In some ways, the comic was the story of V creating another V.

We both loved it, I guess I just loved the movie as well, and that flick does have a different ending from the comic, so I'll certainly give Watchmen a shot - if it's a good movie on it's own terms, I'll give it a bit of slide room.

You had to mention the ending!

The ending reminded me of one of the worst "dystopia" movies ever: Equilibrium.

[Widgetcraft]

The original ending won't be on the DVD. It explains that in the interview if you read it.

Whatever then, I'll just read the graphic novel again.

I fail to see how the change disturbs the ending in such a monumental way as you are portraying it. It seems to me that the importance, the effect, the outcome, and the motif are all the same. Only the cause is changed and that was only a subplot in the original comic anyways. The fates of the characters aren't even altered.

Why would Dr. Manhattan work with Ozymandias? As someone pointed out above, why wouldn't the world turn on the USA? Why wouldn't Manhattan see all of this coming?

[Mr. Murphy]

You had to mention the ending!

The ending reminded me of one of the worst "dystopia" movies ever: Equilibrium.

Jesus, I tried to watch that movie and stopped about twenty minutes in. Fuuuuuck that.

[Mr. Murphy]

I often find myself alone in this opinion for some reason. People just seem to love the gunjitsu or whatever the hell it was called.

I called it retarded.

[KingGorilla]

:eek:

So,just because I say I like pancakes doesn't mean I actually do?


Larry Craig says that he is not gay.

[OrangePulp]

I called it retarded.

I, too, hated the "gunkata", as I think it's called. Pure stupid.

[muddi900]

The most annoyng comment from Equilibrium fans is "Can you name a gunfu movie on such a low budget?". So, am I supposed to be impressed that they did a horrible job at indie budget?

But then again, the stupid gunjitsu was actually funny when I first saw it. I actually thought it was a parody of the wire-fu movies coming out in the wake of the Matrix.

[Widgetcraft]

Meh, Equilibrium isn't a great movie, but it is an awesome movie. It is certainly a hell of a lot better than The Matrix, if only because it doesn't have a bunch of HaXXoR bullshit in it.

[Zero]

Meh, Equilibrium isn't a great movie, but it is an awesome movie. It is certainly a hell of a lot better than The Matrix, if only because it doesn't have a bunch of HaXXoR bullshit in it.

I feel the exact same way.

[alienmastermind]

Squid = Nipples on the Batcostume....to the uninitiated.

What I hate...I REALLY hate is everyone referring to it as a squid. It's supposed to be some Cthuloid beast from the collective unconscious that fears and shocks people to death. The point isn't that it's a squid-shaped creature, the point is it's supposed to be a 9-11 style attack that brings the world together.

As long as they keep the elements of:
- An extradimensional/otherworldly attacker
- A destructive attack on New York
- Disruption to the time stream, so Manhattan can't figure out what's going on.

The average moviegoer never heard of Watchmen before last year. They were too busy talking about other movies. Some things comics geeks revere come off as completely useless in a modern context. For example: The incredibly gay (and I mean this how it sounds, what follows is completely gay in the homosexual, pride parade gay way) man-panties on Superman in Superman Returns. Yes, in the comics, Big Blue wears underpants over his other pants.

This is why no one knows Clark Kent is Superman.

A man comes bashing through the wall wearing cowboy boots, tights, and man-panties with a leather cape with a pompadour and spit curl? I'm not looking at his face. No...'WOW', thinks me. 'THAT. Is so gay.'

So, removing the squid form of the macguffin isn't a blasphemy. However, the fact that the squid is removed causes a specific story problem:

When Comedian finds the base, that's what triggers Ozy to begin his plan of eliminating the people who know everything. Which leads me to believe that they keep the plot element but not the device. However, if Comedian finds a nuke base, rather than the weird Ozy-Commune of artists and writers and scientists, I will be saddened by the fact that Zach ran for the easy way out.

All of this said, I vote Rorschach for next overly used costume. I think someone mentioned this before. But it's going to be a neighborhood full of Jokers and Rorschachs next year.

[muddi900]

It is certainly a hell of a lot better than The Matrix, if only because it doesn't have a bunch of HaXXoR bullshit in it.

Instead it has it has a pseudo-intellectual dystopia story.

As far as awesomeness goes, the 5 minute lobby shootout scene is twice as awesome as whole 90 minutes of Equilibrium.

[alienmastermind]

Dr. Manhattan is practically God so I suppose this is a check depending on your disposition.

Manhattan is God, for all intents and purposes of the metaphor in the novel. But, he's not a shadowy threat from another dimension. He's not, in short, an 'alien' entity that represents something unknown.

Actually major cities around the world are attacked.

In terms of the book? It's just New York. At least, it's a localized event in New York that affects the entire world with a psychological bomb that hurts everyone in the local area, and affects the minds of latent psychics around the world for years to follow.


Yeeeeeeep.

Is that a long 'yep'? Or a modified 'Eep'? :)

My point is that in the metaphor of Manhattan as God, he is unable to see what's going to happen because of the quantum disruption of the alien force entering 'our' universe. Without the 'outside' threat, with Manhattan being the inside man for Ozy, Ozy has no reason to trick Manhattan into exiling himself...the scene on Mars is then rendered stupid and pointless. The reason for that scene is Sally trying to convince him to save the world, to rejoin the human race that he no longer belongs to.

The more I look at the 'squid = just a nuke / Manhattan and Ozy = BFF' the more I worry about the true to the novel aspect of the film.


This interests me as well and thus far I have yet to see anyone answer this question who has gone to a screener or otherwise seen the film. I know that it isn't something as simple as nukes that he uses, it is some sort of machine but then that seems pretty hard to stumble upon. You know, a single machine inside some protected facility. Maybe it is a commune of scientists building a death machine... oh wait. :D

It's not just a 'death' machine they built in the book. They built a psychological meme changing machine, something that trumps the nuke in terms of psychological impact of the weapon. It's why the bomb was referenced so much in the book, that the very existence of nukes changed the world, then the advent of Manhattan changed the paradigm once more. But these were both Earthly machinations, not something we didn't 'get' because it's so alien.

Ozy's plan is to MAKE everyone align with one another beyond race, creed, religion, or color, because the threat exists beyond any of us. It joins us against a common 'albeit totally faked' enemy.

Ozy's plan is to save the entire world by sacrificing millions of people so that no more die for the sake of war or nuclear war.

I'm still planning on seeing this, I'll be happy if it causes people to buy more Watchmen graphic novels. But, my opinion is much the same as the first X-Men movie: 'If the get Wolverine right, the movie will do great'. If they get Rorschach right, this movie will do great.

[alienmastermind]

How many times do I have to quote myself :(.

Not one more time, I see. I didn't realize the whole Ozy/Manhattan = BFF thing wasn't in the movie. So, basically, they've increased the frame-up to be the big explosion at the end? That they blame Dr. Manhattan for the macguffin? Ooh...This sounds pretty good actually. Because Ozy blocks his ability to see the future, Manhattan believes it could be true, and maybe Spectre tries to get him to come back because she and Owl find out differently? That would be just as good, I suppose.



I think I could make a pretty strong case for him being just as shadowy a threat as an interdimensional being. In the book alone he is becoming so despondent to humanity that his own government distrusts him and are afraid of what he might do next, it wouldn't take a lot of writing to make that threat even bigger in the movie.

Sure. He's a threat. And that's implied in the book, but his distant behavior is changed when he realizes what a miracle humanity is. And he then exiles himself to another galaxy. I guess it will work. I don't want you to think I'm arguing FOR the big squid. Some things just won't work on the big screen.

[biosc1]

I don't want you to think I'm arguing FOR the big squid. Some things just won't work on the big screen.

I like your ideas. Personally, I found the big squid to be a bit of a let down. It was a solid idea that wasn't fleshed out enough in the story...I guess I wanted more squid carnage, more "making of" the big squid.

Big bang, big squid...it all works.

[Superman's Dead]

I agree with Krispy; Manhattan is the biggest unknown on the planet to these people. With the whole 'cancer' thing Veidt CAUSES humanity not to trust him.

Comedian can just find the arctic base. Or find them going through Manhattan's projects, or something.

I think I like the change better, actually, because instead of Manhattan just being complacent with the deaths of all of those people he's taking the blame for it. And he lets Veidt do it. It also affects the overtone of when he kills Rorschach.

And I loved Equillibrium. If you don't like the action, that's cool, or think the plot is lame I guess I can understand that. But from an acting standpoint its a fucking great movie. You see a grown man, a hardened man, experience every emotion for the first time in his life. That's what I think of as good cinema. When he listens to music? When he tears off the covering on his window and actually sees the rain? I liked that.

[crazyD]

V was a terrorist. He was never a hero.

The two are not mutually exclusive.

[muddi900]

The two are not mutually exclusive.

Well if we are speaking rhetoric! real world is black and white, or at least people, intentionally and unintentionally, perceive it as such!

[biosc1]

New poster...not sure if anyone posted it elsewhere. This seemed like a good spot.

http://blog.wired.com/underwire/images/2008/11/10/watbn_ozymandias_3.jpg

[Telefrog]

New poster...not sure if anyone posted it elsewhere. This seemed like a good spot.

Can I say I love Bubastis without sounding lame? Oh well, I do.

On the topic of the ending, I understand that the alien squid doesn't play well for the general audience. I get that, but they can fuck right the hell off when it comes to Watchmen. I don't give a shit what anyone says, this is not, never will, and never should be a general audience-friendly story.

The whole thing is a deconstruction of comic superhero tropes. Now, at this point with every other comic being made into a movie, perhaps the general audience is conversant enough with comic book "language" to get all the criticisms in Watchmen, but I frankly doubt it.

I'll watch the movie, because I'm a consumer, but this movie went from "automatic win" to "convince me" based on the news about the ending.

[biosc1]

Quick thoughts: Veidt looks like a god damn woman.

I was thinking along the lines of a young David Bowie...so...yah, I guess you're right too :p

[Superman's Dead]

From the visionary director of 300? Really.

Whoever decided that was a dick.

I don't think saying, "Hey, 300 should be a movie!" makes you a visionary. I don't think using the comic as a storyboard makes you a visionary. I may be over-reacting, but man. What a dick. What. A. Dick.

Edit: Yeah, Rorschach sounds too Bale-y. But I like Manhattan's understated voice. Its also nice to see Rorschach in motion, the comic had a really static feel to me. ...what with...all the still images. Cough.

[Whunpo]

Story trailer is here (http://movies.yahoo.com/movie/1808406490/video/10658091)!

I'm pretty excited with how they are developing the plot but a few critiques (because it wouldn't be me without them): Rorschach sounds like Batman. I mean, where is the monotone? Oh well, I'll get over it. On the other hand, Dr. Manhattan sounds like a normal dude. I don't know how I feel about that.

...They're talking about the Watchmen. As in, calling themselves the Watchmen.
Fuck.
Jon sounds wrong, so does Rorschach.
And they blatantly just changed some of the lines.
I'm scared. :(

[Telefrog]

Jon sounds wrong, so does Rorschach.

I find it amusing that so many people have decided that the characters of a soundless medium sound "wrong" when transalted to another medium.

It's sort of like when silent films gave way to "talkies" and ruined a bunch of Hollywood stars.

[Superman's Dead]

...They're talking about the Watchmen. As in, calling themselves the Watchmen.
Fuck.
Jon sounds wrong, so does Rorschach.
And they blatantly just changed some of the lines.
I'm scared. :(

Look on the bright side! Rorschach's mask still changes. And Silk Spectre seems awesome. Also, Night-Owl's disheveled hair.

Edit: Part of my problem with Rorschach's voice is you can hear how the throat has to tense to make the sound. It sounds like a voice, like he's going out of his way to sound like that. It was also my huge problem with Bale's Batman: that's supposed to be his voice. His natural voice is just...scary. It'll be better because Rorschach has the mask, but with my voice training I'll be able to tell what he has to do to produce the sound and it'll keep sounding wrong and fake to me.

[/petpeeve]

[Whunpo]

Look on the bright side! Rorschach's mask still changes. And Silk Spectre seems awesome. Also, Night-Owl's disheveled hair.

Visually it seems awesome. But when you turn on the sound you hear that the script is wrong, and the voices don't sound like they're supposed to.

And Rorschach's voice was described in the comic, and it doesn't seem to fit the description. And Jon sounds better after watching a second time. The voice I gave Jon came from his image of a muscular superhero. They gave him his voice from the watchmaker/science geek that he truly is.

[Superman's Dead]

Veidt has nipples! Perfect.

[muddi900]

Rorschach sounds like Batman. I mean, where is the monotone? Oh well, I'll get over it. On the other hand, Dr. Manhattan sounds like a normal dude. I don't know how I feel about that.

Wht made Roschach awesome is his "hurm, I'm gonnna kill you".No emotion. The art itself suggested a monotone. Manhattan sounds ok. And as stated before, MAlin Akerman's ass is awesome!

This looks too music video-esque to me. or maybe I'm too much of a nerd!

Of course, whatever they do, they can't ever meet fan's expectations. Watchmen is just too awesome for hollywood!

[Young Al Capone]

Visually it is amazing, but I am not sure about the changes being made. I am still wanting to see it, but I am not nearly as excited as I was the first time I saw the teaser.

[National Kato]

From the visionary director of 300? Really. Whoever decided that was a dick. I don't think saying, "Hey, 300 should be a movie!" makes you a visionary. I don't think using the comic as a storyboard makes you a visionary. I may be over-reacting, but man. What a dick. What. A. Dick.

Well, it's not like Zack Snyder took the comic pages, scanned them in to his computer and voila! Finished movie! It takes a bit of vision to bring any adaptation to the screen.

That being said, the person who decided to phrase it that way has one job: put butts into seats. And that's not your butt. The studio already knows the geeks are going...now it's time to get the people who have no fucking idea what Watchmen is to buy tickets. Guess how they do that? Hyperbole, my friend. It's a marketing tool and has been used since before you were born. :)

[Squidbot]

...They're talking about the Watchmen. As in, calling themselves the Watchmen.
Fuck.
Jon sounds wrong, so does Rorschach.
And they blatantly just changed some of the lines.
I'm scared. :(

This. Some of you may remember my incessant posting of all news about this movie, back on EvAv, and my excitement. This latest trailer has deflated me, I really dislike them changing the dialogue so much.

[Superman's Dead]

Well, it's not like Zack Snyder took the comic pages, scanned them in to his computer and voila! Finished movie! It takes a bit of vision to bring any adaptation to the screen.

That being said, the person who decided to phrase it that way has one job: put butts into seats. And that's not your butt. The studio already knows the geeks are going...now it's time to get the people who have no fucking idea what Watchmen is to buy tickets. Guess how they do that? Hyperbole, my friend. It's a marketing tool and has been used since before you were born. :)

Look, your 'knowledge' gets in the way of my vitriol. Let me just hate the guy a little. I'm on the internet a few hours a day...hate is all I have.

Hate and lesbians.

[Whunpo]

This. Some of you may remember my incessant posting of all news about this movie, back on EvAv, and my excitement. This latest trailer has deflated me, I really dislike them changing the dialogue so much.
Thanks you for agreeing with me. It seemed like I was the only one who didn't see the trailer as the greatest thing since last Tuesday. Now I know I'm at least as sane as you.

[Squidbot]

Snyder has confirmed that I have no relatives in this film. http://www.aintitcool.com/node/39131

He also noted that they are creating a documentary based around Hollis Mason’s ‘Under The Hood’ memoirs for the DVD release.

[Superman's Dead]

That article is a great read, although as a staunch Rorschach supporter I disagree with the whole 'what is a villain' thing. =)

[DarkDay]

God, quit your bitchin'.. The Watchmen isn't the Bible. Just be happy that we're getting a kick ass movie. Moore is fucking crazy anyways. Maybe if he wasn't he could have helped them make an even better movie.


Exactly how I feel. I have crazy powers that allow me to separate book from movie and enjoy both. Yes..crazy.

I just wish they would stop making such cool trailers, I think what I want now is just an hour and a half trailer every 3 months.

[Mr. Murphy]

This. Some of you may remember my incessant posting of all news about this movie, back on EvAv, and my excitement. This latest trailer has deflated me, I really dislike them changing the dialogue so much.

With the editing tricks they pull in trailers, it's entirely possible that they are not referring to themselves as a team called the Watchman.

[DarkDay]

Sometimes I think Snyder could make a career out of just trailers.

No shit, as much as I loved 300, being a spartan decedent and all, a large part of me loved the trailer more than the movie.

[Mr. Murphy]

No shit, as much as I loved 300, being a spartan decedent and all, a large part of me loved the trailer more than the movie.

Did you guys know the movie director very rarely, if ever, cuts together the trailers? There's an editor with that specific job, and he is usually given a large bank of scenes to work with and cuts them together however the advertising firm deems fit. The director usually doesn't even have a say.

There have been many cases where the trailer that goes to air has scenes that don't make the final cut of the movie, such as the latest National Treasure flick.

[civil]

This'll get me butchered, I'm sure, but I hated the ending to Watchmen. Any change will improve what I felt to be a weak ending in practice but strong ending in theory.

Deconstructionist this, metaphorical that, blah blah blah. I know that lingo well as I went to school for it and paid thousands of clams to learn it.

And that is still a bullshit ending.

[DarkDay]

Did you guys know the movie director very rarely, if ever, cuts together the trailers? There's an editor with that specific job, and he is usually given a large bank of scenes to work with and cuts them together however the advertising firm deems fit. The director usually doesn't even have a say.

There have been many cases where the trailer that goes to air has scenes that don't make the final cut of the movie, such as the latest National Treasure flick.

Yup, very aware of this and see it all the time, does not change my op of loving the trailers.

Perhaps its the a d d world we have been served. Just give me 1 min of epic mashed together?

[Superman's Dead]

I like to think it was just shitty source material though ;).

Ooooooooooooooooooooh. Oooooooh. Ooooh. Oh.

Maverick indeed. ;)

[Whunpo]

With the editing tricks they pull in trailers, it's entirely possible that they are not referring to themselves as a team called the Watchman.

Nope. Snyder confirmed that it was changed in that interview.
And them being called Watchmen is only part of it. All of the lines were tweaked, just a bit, for seemingly no apparent reason. As if to just give Moore a big "Fuck You."

I don't understand you guys. Look at the track record for a good comic book movie. When does it EVER live up to the hype? Why will Watchmen be so different?

[Superman's Dead]

I don't understand you guys. Look at the track record for a good comic book movie. When does it EVER live up to the hype? Why will Watchmen be so different?

I think the bar is higher. I know the pressure really hasn't been felt because there hasn't been enough time...but Iron Man, The Dark Knight, and The Incredible Hulk were all great movies that stayed true to their characters if not their history. And they weren't just great comic book movies, they were great movies. I think people are starting to get that if you do it RIGHT, everyone's happy.

[DarkDay]

Replace the Incredible hulk for Hellboy 2, I was much dissapointed inthe new Hulk, in a lot of ways I like Lees version better. Both needed to come together with their good points.

[Superman's Dead]

Replace the Incredible hulk for Hellboy 2, I was much dissapointed inthe new Hulk, in a lot of ways I like Lees version better. Both needed to come together with their good points.

Really? I heard terrible things about Hellboy 2. And I don't really count Hellboy as staying true to its characters as much as, say, Iron Man.

But that could just be because I hated everything about what they did to Abe.

[Mr. Murphy]

I don't understand you guys. Look at the track record for a good comic book movie. When does it EVER live up to the hype? Why will Watchmen be so different?

Sin City? Movie was better than the comic IMO. I also loved V for Vendetta at least as much as a movie. From Hell? Totally different experience from the pen-and-ink Moore graphic novel, but still an awesome flick. And maybe I'm the only one, but I thought 300 was an awesome movie. I also own the graphic novel, and I loved how Snyder made it into a cinematic experience.

But most of all, I simply don't expect the movie to give me the same experience as the comic. It's a ten hour read condensed into a 2 1/2 hour flick. I don't expect it to be the comic, and because of that, I will be able to enjoy it for what it is.

I like the characters and the story of Watchmen, and I will enjoy seeing them come to life on the screen even if they do call themselves the Watchmen (which is blatant pandering to the ignorant masses, if you ask me). The movie is not the comic book and they don't have time to capture every little detail, so as long as they get the feel of it, I'm happy.

Edit: You know, I just realized that maybe instead of comparing this movie to other comic book movies, we should be comparing it to the Lord of the Rings movies. Those movies left out so much and changed quite a bit, but they are still great movies because they are good movies in their own right while still feeling like the Lord of the Rings. The passion for the source material shines through. From everything these articles say, and from Dave Gibbon's comments, it sounds like Watchmen pulled off the same thing.

[Whunpo]

I think the bar is higher. I know the pressure really hasn't been felt because there hasn't been enough time...but Iron Man, The Dark Knight, and The Incredible Hulk were all great movies that stayed true to their characters if not their history. And they weren't just great comic book movies, they were great movies. I think people are starting to get that if you do it RIGHT, everyone's happy.
That is actually a really good point.
However, translating a story like one of those is a lot different than something like Watchmen. I love Iron Man and Batman and all that, but it is simply not at the same level as Watchmen.
Watchmen is not a typical comic (it's not even a typical story) in that it has no real protagonist, and I don't know if making Rorschach: The Movie will ever be as good.

[Superman's Dead]

Watchmen is not a typical comic (it's not even a typical story) in that it has no real protagonist, and I don't know if making Rorschach: The Movie will ever be as good.

Just as a matter of personal preference, and it may be heresy...but I would have preferred Rorschach: The Graphic Novel. Because he was my favorite and right and glorious and everything else except for Dan just...wasn't up to par.

[alienmastermind]

From the visionary director of 300? Really.

Whoever decided that was a dick.

I don't think saying, "Hey, 300 should be a movie!" makes you a visionary. I don't think using the comic as a storyboard makes you a visionary. I may be over-reacting, but man. What a dick. What. A. Dick.

What WAS visionary (and I will stand up for the poor guy, because people are mean as shit to Snyder with no real good reason...I mean it's not like he's Brett Ratner or something) was taking the page and translating it to the screen panel for panel, dumb line for dumb line, and most of all--DEMANDING a hard R rating for a comic based movie. That shit was visionary. Without 300, Warner Bros. would have wanted a PG-13 Watchmen. That would have sucked all of the balls of all of the people with balls.

Edit: Yeah, Rorschach sounds too Bale-y.

Like this?

1FS60iN0g2I

The guy sounds like Bale's Batman only less 'RAWR! I'm PISSED!' and more 'Hey there, I would make heavy breather calls if I wasn't already otherwise engaged breaking criminal fingers'.

But I like Manhattan's understated voice. Its also nice to see Rorschach in motion, the comic had a really static feel to me. ...what with...all the still images. Cough.

But, some of the facial blotches are great when they do things that relate to the scenes. Like the Hiroshima shadow one near the end of the book before Nite Owl and Silk Spectre do the bow-chicka-bowsdy-bow-wow!

[alienmastermind]

This'll get me butchered, I'm sure, but I hated the ending to Watchmen. Any change will improve what I felt to be a weak ending in practice but strong ending in theory.

Deconstructionist this, metaphorical that, blah blah blah. I know that lingo well as I went to school for it and paid thousands of clams to learn it.

And that is still a bullshit ending.

No.

You are wrong. And have a terrifying sense of what's appropriate for an avatar picture. :)

I won't use fancy book-learnin' type words to argue with you about the ending. I will say that in the novel, the ending is Alan Moore's giant cock saying 'THIS IS A FUCKING COMIC BOOK. I HATE CINEMA. DO NOT MAKE THIS BOOK INTO A MOVIE, SHIT FOR BRAINS.' oh, and 'PAY ME, WARNER BROTHERS.'

The squid...fuck I hate that term. It's not a squid, it has tentacles, but it is not a squid. It is intended to be the horrors of all mankind made manifest by a group of artists, psychics, psychologists, and geneticists, to be so terrifically alien that it binds all mankind together against the invisible 'other'.

Now, the ending of the book is a pitch-perfect comic book ending. It is exactly the weird fucking ending a comic would have, and in a real context is completely jarring on the page, because Doc Manhattan notwithstanding, the rest is pretty much realistic. You can hate the ending, but not because it was badly done, or weak. It was a strong as hell ending to a great novel, earned itself a place as one of Time's top 100 Modern Novels. It's in my top 10 as best of the Modern Age of Fiction.

It's a good ending. You're wrong. :)

Neener-neener.

[DarkDay]

Really? I heard terrible things about Hellboy 2. And I don't really count Hellboy as staying true to its characters as much as, say, Iron Man.

But that could just be because I hated everything about what they did to Abe.

A good movie is a good movie, and this is one of them, beautiful, creative and fun. Does it have issues, you bet, but much better over all then the hulk. Just because a movie follows the formula does not make it enjoyable. At least to me.

[Atepsflame]

The squid...fuck I hate that term. It's not a squid, it has tentacles, but it is not a squid. It is intended to be the horrors of all mankind made manifest by a group of artists, psychics, psychologists, and geneticists, to be so terrifically alien that it binds all mankind together against the invisible 'other'.


...an other that just happens to look like it was something yanked directly out of a Lovecraft novella. I honestly have always seen it as mostly just a major nod to Lovecraft and his influence on many a comic (Arkham asylum anyone?). And go ahead and argue it's merits in terms of the graphic novel (and I personally think the ending works great) but it is still probably a good thing they took it out of the film, as a Lovecraft allusion that big is probably far too esoteric for the movie going public at large.

[Squidbot]

W


Like this?

1FS60iN0g2I

The guy sounds like Bale's Batman only less 'RAWR! I'm PISSED!' and more 'Hey there, I would make heavy breather calls if I wasn't already otherwise engaged breaking criminal fingers'.



That's Alan Moore.

[Superman's Dead]

That's Alan Moore.

Get rid of the silly accent (who talks like that anyways? ;) ) and that's Rorschach. I never imagined that bass kinda rumble in there when I read it, but I like it.

[Voodoo]

Get rid of the silly accent (who talks like that anyways? ;) ) and that's Rorschach. I never imagined that bass kinda rumble in there when I read it, but I like it.

I know close to what Rorschach's voice would sound like. Him and I are of very close proportions and when I am very calm and relaxed I have a similar voice to what I have heard of people voicing the character. When I'm reading the comic I have a thought of how the voice would be and then when I heard the trailer, it is pretty close.

By the way, I hadn't read Watchmen until recently and I am pretty impressed. It is a great read and I especially like Rorschach's take on everything as he progresses through the story. So far, he is the most interesting character of the whole lot.

[Squidbot]

New trailer.
gYHj_WtmIeo

[Squidbot]

There is a new Japanese trailer up, with lots of new footage.

IMPORTANT: No matter how many times you have read Watchmen THERE ARE SPOILERS in this trailer.

Linkeh. (http://www.traileraddict.com/trailer/watchmen/japanese-trailer)

This trailer is going to spark a shitstorm of controversy amongst Watchmen fans.

[Superman's Dead]

Well that all looked great except for that terrible thing. Wow. Thanks for the heads-up, Squid.

[muddi900]

What terrible thing?

[axion]

Now I am confused about what they decided to do in the movie.

[Zero]

Yup. Watchmen-in-name-only, folks. WINO.

[Froghourt]

Wait what?

When the fuck did the comedian assassinate JFK? And when did Nixon ever shout "I decide when it is doomsday" in the comic? And why was Fidel Castro in Russia?
I am losing faith in this movie.

[axion]

Spoiler tags maybe? [spoiler ] [/ spoiler] with no spaces. But yes, WTF.

[Rogue_hunter]

Well, that was utterly ugh. But, thanks to trailer addict, I found this gem (http://www.traileraddict.com/trailer/lesbian-vampire-killers/teaser-trailer) of a movie that comes out two weeks after Watchmen. If that can deliver on what's implied (gratuitous nudity and plenty of beautiful women), that movie gets my pick for Movie of the Year.

[Froghourt]

Spoiler tags maybe? [spoiler ] [/ spoiler] with no spaces. But yes, WTF.

I am an idiot. I totally forgot you could that.

[Squidbot]

Wait what?

When the fuck did the comedian assassinate JFK? And when did Nixon ever shout "I decide when it is doomsday" in the comic? And why was Fidel Castro in Russia?
I am losing faith in this movie.

It is mentioned in passing by Jon, when he is reminiscing about meeting the Comedian. But all he says is The Comedian was in Dallas that day for no apparent reason

[Froghourt]

It is mentioned in passing by Jon, when he is reminiscing about meeting the Comedian. But all he says is The Comedian was in Dallas that day for no apparent reason

Yes but going from that to

the Comedian assassinating JFK for no apparent reason (I would imagine some sort of contract from Nixon so he could stay president) is pretty damn extreme. What does it even add to the story? We have already shown that the comedian is ruthless (the hole Vietnam scene illustrates that perfectly) so what could it possible add to the story?

[Bone]

It is mentioned in passing by Jon, when he is reminiscing about meeting the Comedian. But all he says is The Comedian was in Dallas that day for no apparent reason
Well...
Someone reminded me that G. Gordon Liddy is at an event with the Comedian, who says something like "don't ask what I was doing at the grassy knoll".

There was also a promotional poster for the comic, drawn by Gibbons, that had the Comedian with a sniper rifle pointed at a motorcade.

If anything, it seems like they've done their homework on this and extrapolated on some things that were hinted at.

As for the Squid,
The resolution of the movie appears to be a bunch of blue explosions in major cities, setting up Manhattan as the otherworldly power that the nations must unite against. I don't think this is a bad thing, compared to a giant squid flopping down on a city (which I think would look ridiculous on film).

[Mr. Murphy]

Well...
Someone reminded me that G. Gordon Liddy is at an event with the Comedian, who says something like "don't ask what I was doing at the grassy knoll".

There was also a promotional poster for the comic, drawn by Gibbons, that had the Comedian with a sniper rifle pointed at a motorcade.

If anything, it seems like they've done their homework on this and extrapolated on some things that were hinted at.

As for the Squid,
The resolution of the movie appears to be a bunch of blue explosions in major cities, setting up Manhattan as the otherworldly power that the nations must unite against. I don't think this is a bad thing, compared to a giant squid flopping down on a city (which I think would look ridiculous on film).

I agree.

One of the things that made the comic so incredible was how it used it's medium to it's advantage. It looks like Snyder is doing the same with the movie version. Every change that I've seen or heard about so far seems to be necessary for it to be a good film, and it gives me faith in the final product.

Mimicking the comic in every single little detail would not have delivered the same feel, the same impact as the comic did. It looks like he got everything he could, while making the movie into a film that comments on superhero films the way the comic book commented on superhero comics.

Every trailer I see gets me more excited!

[roboninja]

whew, I thought the horrible thing in the trailer was actually bad. Glad it is not, and is something gleaned from the graphic novel, even if it was not stated outright.

[Zanzibar]

I dunno, I'm still pretty excited. I actually never liked the Squid idea.

And as for JFK/Comedian...are you guys serious? The novel alluded to JFK getting killed by the Comedian multiple times.

[Froghourt]

I dunno, I'm still pretty excited. I actually never liked the Squid idea.

And as for JFK/Comedian...are you guys serious? The novel alluded to JFK getting killed by the Comedian multiple times.

But the book never showed it, so why include it? It really doesn't add anything.

[Mr. Murphy]

But the book never showed it, so why include it? It really doesn't add anything.

I disagree, I think it adds to the feel that you are in a parallel world quite a bit. I'm assuming it's a scene from the opening 6 minute montage of all the ways this timeline diverged from ours.

[Bone]

But the book never showed it, so why include it? It really doesn't add anything.

You have the book; it's not going anywhere. I don't understand the resistance to adapt something for a different medium.

Lord of the Rings made huge changes to characters, events, locations... in the end I only really missed the Scouring of the Shire, and even that I can understand cutting due to the numerous "endings" in the book.

Hitchhiker's Guide is another one I can think of- it was different in every medium- book, TV, radio, and movie. Vast differences, in some cases, but they managed to get the idea across.

[Bone]

I disagree, I think it adds to the feel that you are in a parallel world quite a bit. I'm assuming it's a scene from the opening 6 minute montage of all the ways this timeline diverged from ours.

This is a good point. As much as it sucks to admit, certain things do have to be spelled out for a movie audience as opposed to a comic book audience, and this does setup how they have manipulated the events away from our timeline. And since the books hinted at it, it's basically canon.

[biosc1]

You have the book; it's not going anywhere. I don't understand the resistance to adapt something for a different medium.

Lord of the Rings made huge changes to characters, events, locations... in the end I only really missed the Scouring of the Shire, and even that I can understand cutting due to the numerous "endings" in the book.

Hitchhiker's Guide is another one I can think of- it was different in every medium- book, TV, radio, and movie. Vast differences, in some cases, but they managed to get the idea across.

Agreed. The book will always be there. A movie is an interpretation of a book. It can either be bad or good depending on how you go into the theatre. I always go in with the idea of being entertained and I try not to compare the movie to the book. I just want the characters to be represented in a way that is comparable to the book because the characters are what I have become attached to.

Of course, I wasn't always like this...I was seriously disappointed by Clear & Present Danger...that was the slap in the face I needed, to realize that books do not always make good movies.

I still get burned though. I read Children of Men and found that I couldn't enjoy the movie due to the changes it made from the book...even though everyone loved the movie.

[Voodoo]

It looks absolutely fantastic. Between this movie and Dawn of War 2 being released so close to each other, those are going to be some great days right there...

[Froghourt]

You have the book; it's not going anywhere. I don't understand the resistance to adapt something for a different medium.



Because I think it is a disservice to the book. Some of the changes they have made I can live with, even the ending I can accept because the original ending would be very hard to adapt directly to screen. By and large though Snyder and everyone else involved basically said "we want to make a Watchmen movie, and not an adaptation of it" which was fine by me. But then this trailer comes along and suddenly we have things that, to me, just feel out of place.

We don't need to see The Comedian assassinating JFK, because the only thing it does, as Mr. Murphy said, is to illustrate the differences in this parallel universe from ours, but I feel like that was already accomplished in the Vietnam scene in the comic. All the new stuff with Nixon also seems out of place, like it is completely unnecessary for an already packed movie.

I guess that is my real problem with it. Every minute they use on something new and irrelevant could be used on something else. I know they have to make cuts to fit such a huge story into 2 hours of screen time, but it just seems strange to me that they would spend that time on things that aren't really necessary to the story.

[Superman's Dead]

Oh good. It's been a white since I read the book, and at 5 AM I just got my feelings hurt by thinking they'd start throwing shit in there. Now I remember how awesome Jon's line about it is...how it lets you into his head.

Though I think mentioning it but not seeing it made it a bit more chilling.

[Bone]

I guess that is my real problem with it. Every minute they use on something new and irrelevant could be used on something else. I know they have to make cuts to fit such a huge story into 2 hours of screen time, but it just seems strange to me that they would spend that time on things that aren't really necessary to the story.The way I see it, you have a whole new moviegoing audience and it may help to illustrate more places where costumed adventurers intervened in events.

Also,reports are that the movie is closer to 3 hours, with a 4.5 hour director's cut coming. From this trailer alone you see little details like the original Nite Owl's fate, etc... I don't think they're cutting much and I don't feel very concerned that they decided to extrapolate something that was already in the book into an actual, brief scene (which may not even be in the movie, or may not be any longer than what we saw in the trailer).

[Ink Asylum]

I used to go into raving fanboy mode more often, but I've definitely come around to the idea of each media needing to tell a story in its own way.

It's fun sometimes to see a comic book translated nearly panel by panel into a movie, like Sin City, but that isn't necessary. If the ideas in the comic are strong enough they will survive the transition and any changes made.

The process is risky. The more you change the more you risk messing up the core ideas, but there is a lot that can be safely modified. You can show the Comedian killing JFK, or change the giant squid to some other danger and it doesn't matter. Making it an attack by Dr. Manhattan is riskier but still not that bad. We'll see what else they change.

Watchmen may be a near perfect comic book, but it's a comic book, not a screenplay or storyboard. Movies have to do things differently.

[muddi900]

I think the bone of contention here was implied by Ozymandias as well, during the the you-know-what. I am going to say it again, we love this piece of fiction dearly. In the end, even if they make the best movie ever, in our hearts it would just be a lame adaptation.

[Mr. Murphy]

I think the bone of contention here was implied by Ozymandias as well, during the the you-know-what. I am going to say it again, we love this piece of fiction dearly. In the end, even if they make the best movie ever, in our hearts it would just be a lame adaptation.

I have no idea what Ozymandias scene you are referring to. Care to spell it out for us?

And I take umbrage at the idea that you are somehow a bigger fan of this piece of literature than I am - at the idea that just because I can enjoy someone elses adaptation of it, I somehow don't understand the original work.

[Froghourt]

I am still optimistic about the movie, but I am a bit worried.

[Mr. Murphy]

I am still optimistic about the movie, but I am a bit worried.

Is that a photo of the author as your avatar?

[Froghourt]

Is that a photo of the author as your avatar?

Yes it is.

I probably should have mentioned that I am crazy Alan Moore fanboy. So I may be a little biased.

Just a bit though ;)

[Mr. Murphy]

Yes it is.

I probably should have mentioned that I am crazy Alan Moore fanboy. So I may be a little biased.

Just a bit though ;)

You and I both, my friend. I really do hear where you are coming from. I must admit, Gibbon's avid approval of the movie as it has progressed is a big reason why I have faith in Snyder - I certainly don't base my faith on 300, which was fun, but hardly 'visionary'.

I recently purchased Moore's 'The Lost Girls' for almost $100 and it was worth every penny.

[Bone]

After watching the trailer again I think my disdain is mostly over the fact that the trailer was very poorly cut and not necessarily the content. I think it is very interesting, though, to see how the movie is marketed to different territories. In the international trailers they are trying to sell the super heroes with tons of CG, action packed, montages of them jumping around and being super hero like. In Japan they don't show a single slow motion scene. The entire film is sold as a political intrigue. Hell, they don't even show Dr. Manhattan until the final montage.A comment on AICN (from someone who had seen an early cut) was something like "the American trailers are selling this action superhero movie, and maybe even the studio doesn't realize that what they made was a three hour art film". That actually gave me a lot of hope.

Yes it is.

I probably should have mentioned that I am crazy Alan Moore fanboy. So I may be a little biased.

Just a bit though ;)I was just about to comment on that! Look, I understand Alan's crotchety about it, and understandably due to the extremely poor efforts others have made on filming his work. On the other hand, Snyder is an absolute fanboy, carried the graphic novel around AS his storyboard, made changes to the script to match the comic, etc. And Dave Gibbons made a visit to the set and was astounded at their work (both on the sets and on the clips he's seen).

I'll remain optimistic :)

[Froghourt]

I recently purchased Moore's 'The Lost Girls' for almost $100 and it was worth every penny.

The only thing really keeping me from buying more Alan Moore books is the fact that I would never get anything done again.


You guys have really gotten my hopes for the movie up again, although I am not entirely convinced.

I still can't wait until it comes out though. I will probably end up watching it opening night anyway.

[Mr. Murphy]

You guys have really gotten my hopes for the movie up again, although I am not entirely convinced.

I still can't wait until it comes out though. I will probably end up watching it opening night anyway.

Well, I'm glad we got your hopes up at least a little. It's really easy to be down on an event like this, but it really is once in a lifetime that we'll get to see a movie like this done so carefully from something we love so much, you know? I'd rather it be a great experience than a bad one, and it's not like you win anything for saying it will suck and then being right, so I like to be optomistic about it.

See you opening night. :D You know you'll be there.

[crazyD]

Well, I'm glad we got your hopes up at least a little. It's really easy to be down on an event like this, but it really is once in a lifetime that we'll get to see a movie like this done so carefully from something we love so much, you know? I'd rather it be a great experience than a bad one, and it's not like you win anything for saying it will suck and then being right, so I like to be optomistic about it.

See you opening night. :D You know you'll be there.

Personally, I would rather stay pessimistic, as it is better to be pleasantly surprised then disappointed.

[Froghourt]

Well, I'm glad we got your hopes up at least a little. It's really easy to be down on an event like this, but it really is once in a lifetime that we'll get to see a movie like this done so carefully from something we love so much, you know? I'd rather it be a great experience than a bad one, and it's not like you win anything for saying it will suck and then being right, so I like to be optomistic about it.

See you opening night. :D You know you'll be there.

I will be the first in line, excited like a child in a candy store!

[Mr. Murphy]

Personally, I would rather stay pessimistic, as it is better to be pleasantly surprised then disappointed.

But pessimism is a self-fulfilling prophecy. All you'll see is the bad stuff that proves "I was right! This sucks!" instead of all the awesome in between.

[Bone]

Personally, I would rather stay pessimistic, as it is better to be pleasantly surprised then disappointed.

I disagree. When you go in pessimistic, you're just waiting to pounce on the first flaw you see. I saw a lot of people ruin LOTR for themselves that way. In the end, the trilogy wasn't perfect, but it was great. Which, now that I am honest with myself, is how the books were too. Tolkien had many flaws as a writer, but his overall story was good.

EDIT: Murphy, if you're going to read my mind, at least send me a telepathic message that I don't need to bother posting :)

[Squidbot]

I'm a massive Moore fan, I've net the man a couple of times, and Watchmen remains my number one comic. I am still quietly optimistic about the film, it will never be, can never be the comic, but it could be great. Until I see it I cannot judge. To my horror I was surprised to find the game wasn't awful, although Moore would hate it.

[crazyD]

But pessimism is a self-fulfilling prophecy. All you'll see is the bad stuff that proves "I was right! This sucks!" instead of all the awesome in between.

Not necessarily. I generally keep a fairly open mind, but have not expected much from this movie since I heard Zak Snyder was attached.

[mister slim]

Snyder's definitely got the visual skills, in terms of picking where to borrow shots from the movie and where to try something better suited to the strengths of film. Pacing shouldn't be a problem. I'm mostly worried about his ability to grab the important character beats and integrate them into the plot. For example, there's that nice little shot of Nite Owl slumping down but then again they don't seem to understand the point of Ozymandias dressing in red and gold.

[crazyD]

Snyder's definitely got the visual skills, in terms of picking where to borrow shots from the movie and where to try something better suited to the strengths of film. Pacing shouldn't be a problem. I'm mostly worried about his ability to grab the important character beats and integrate them into the plot. For example, there's that nice little shot of Nite Owl slumping down but then again they don't seem to understand the point of Ozymandias dressing in red and gold.

I'm mainly concerned about his ability to make something that is not just an over the top action film. Action was rare and fairly toned down in the comic.

[Squidbot]

I'm guessing Ozy and Blot face have an epic battle.

[Bone]

Anyone who has the Absolute Watchmen should read the "Minutes" appendix at the back. The more I read Moore's notes on what he wanted to achieve with the story, the more I agree with the reported changes to the end, as well as the other nitpicks.

In particular, read his notes on what the appearance of a Doc Manhattan "God" being would do to the psyche of the world, and the threat and fear he would represent.

[Voodoo]

I don't believe this has been posted here yet...
YHFAds4Wnds

[axion]

Cool. Getting more and more excited for this.

[Bone]

Just finished another read-through. Man, if anything, they have nailed the LOOK of this thing. I really hope he's got the soul of it too. From the snippets of scenes we've been treated to, I am feeling pretty good about it.

[Bone]

Drew McWeeny (formerly Moriarty of Aint it Cool, now with Hitflix.com) received an open letter from Lloyd Levin, a producer of Watchmen. He provides some insight into the soulless cash grab that Fox is trying to pull (not like anyone is surprised).

It's a good read, and reflects the passion these guys have put into the project over fifteen years of trying to film this movie.

Open letter from Lloyd Levin (http://www.hitfix.com/blogs/2008-12-6-motion-captured/posts/2009-1-8-an-open-letter-from-watchmen-producers).

[Squidbot]

That was a very interesting read. However, I still think that Fox are going to pull a ton of cash out of Warner, morally right or wrong.

[muddi900]

I have no idea what Ozymandias scene you are referring to. Care to spell it out for us?

And I take umbrage at the idea that you are somehow a bigger fan of this piece of literature than I am - at the idea that just because I can enjoy someone elses adaptation of it, I somehow don't understand the original work.

When Ozy was "monologuing", to quote the incredibles. But I might be wrong


And my point was that we, as fans of the original work, should judge the adaptation on its own merits, rather than seeing how true it is to the original. Because something like the Watchmen can only work in the medium it was designed for. So if anyone tries to adapt it panel-to-screen, they'll fall flat on their face. Some liberties have to be taken.

Same goes for any other medium. Don Delilo's Underworld can never be a good movie if told like the book. Memento can never be a good comic book if completely honest to the movie.

I think most people are crying how mush the movie deviates from the source. But from what I see, most of the stuff that matters is there. Just don't pull a V for Vendetta!

[Squidbot]

http://www.thenewfrontiersman.net/

[crazyD]

Is there anything actually there? If so, I can't find it.

[pomeroy]

[spoiler] Just don't pull a V for Vendetta!

What, you don't want Watchmen to be a good movie? Because "V" was awesome.

[crazyD]

What, you don't want Watchmen to be a good movie? Because "V" was awesome.

V was okay, but kind of beaten to death by action film directors, which is what I expect out of Watchmen.

[muddi900]

What, you don't want Watchmen to be a good movie? Because "V" was awesome.

I think I've had this conversation in this thread already. V for Vendetta was extremely easy to adapt story about what would happen if right-wing fascists took over. Instead they made a Hollywood liberal propaganda, about how "teh neo-cons are teh evils". The only thing redeeming about that movie was that prison scene. And that's why Alan Moore hates WB!

From interviews, I can see that Snyder isn't going to pull a V; i.e. aesthetically honest, but cutting away the stuff that matters.

[axion]

Yeah I forget where it was said before, but it seems like even though they are marketing this as a sort of superhero action movie in the US, the Japanese trailer shows that they are staying fairly true to the novel. Not to mention the fact that the director's cut is going to be like 4.5 hours long, which would indicate a lot of the story going in IMO.

[Bone]

The Black Freighter animated DVD is getting a hard R rating too, can't wait for that.

[Disgustipated]

I bet Warner Bros is pissed about that. Fox is getting $$$ for nothing, that's for sure. I bet there was much coke whoring and partying after the settlement was reached.

[Zero]

While Gordon is not a party to the case, Warners is said to be pursuing the producer and his attorneys to reimburse it for the costs of the settlement.

Ouch. Poor guy. This is probably why he wrote that impassioned letter last week. He was gonna get fucked regardless.

[Squidbot]

http://watchmenmovie.warnerbros.com/

Just listening to Rorschach, they've changed the text of his journal entry, only one line but to me it's an important change, and I fail to understand why.
But it still looks promising, all the same.

[Ink Asylum]

How big is the change?

[Squidbot]

Well, tiny, really. However, it's a line that says a lot about Rorschach's mentality and the way he sees himself, and to me that is an important part of the story, the whole theme of the book is the mental state of super heroes.
Also, why alter Moore's writing in such a small way?

[Ink Asylum]

Well, tiny, really. However, it's a line that says a lot about Rorschach's mentality and the way he sees himself, and to me that is an important part of the story, the whole theme of the book is the mental state of super heroes.
Also, why alter Moore's writing in such a small way?

Can you post the two lines here, spoilered if you feel it necessary? I can neither listen to the audio at the link nor have the Watchmen book in front of me.

As to why they would alter an author's writing without seeing the text in question, it's often done because it sounds better than it reads on the page. If I recall correctly, in Fight Club they changed "I am John's..." to "I am Jack's..." whenever it popped up in the narration. Seems a pointless change, but I'm sure it was done for a reason.

[Squidbot]

I know many people will simply see me as nitpicking, but I really don't care.

The original:
The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the whores and politicians will look up and shout "Save us!"...and I'll look down, and whisper "No."

As heard on the website:
The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the whores and politicians will look up and shout "Save us!"...and I'll whisper "No."

As I said, tiny, but considering Rorscach's background, his view of himself looking down upon the type of people he mentions says a lot about his self image as Rorschach.

Let the Squid roast begin.

[Superman's Dead]

I actually noticed that something was wrong with the line when I heard it in the trailer, but couldn't figure what. That's one of my favorite lines in the novel for that specific reason, Squid...no such roast here.

Maybe they thought it was unnecessary because they'll probably have him looking down on the screen?

...I really want some fried calamari and pasta now. =/

[Squidbot]

Holy crap, is that Vangelis's Bladerunner soundtrack on the Comedian page?!

[Bone]

Yeah, while there is a small amount of character imbued by the "I'll look down" part, I find it sort of clunky for an actor to say, and also it's somewhat implied since they are still looking up at him to shout "save us!".

Like Harrison Ford said to Lucas during the filming of one the Star Wars movies: "You can type this shit, George, but you sure can't say it".

Then again it could have been just a cut to make the line flow better in the trailer, and the movie may have the full line.

Either way, I do think you're reaching a bit, Squiddy ;)

[Squidbot]

Either way, I do think you're reaching a bit, Squiddy ;)

I'm trying not to. I really want to love this film, and I'm getting chills browsing the website, I'm super fucking excited to go see it in Imax. I just really like that line. It's in the opening dialogue of the comic :(

But, as I say, everything else looks and sounds fabulous. Rorschach's voice in the audio journal entry is spot on.

[Bone]

I'm trying not to. I really want to love this film, and I'm getting chills browsing the website, I'm super fucking excited to go see it in Imax. I just really like that line. It's in the opening dialogue of the comic :(

But, as I say, everything else looks and sounds fabulous. Rorschach's voice in the audio journal entry is spot on.

Yeah I hear you. And now you can roast me: maybe it's part of Rorschach's character, but I found much of his dialogue to be overwrought. Specifically the first few pages of the graphic novel. Again, I know it's supposed to establish his state of mind, but I had a hard time believing even a nutjob would talk like he did. I much preferred the later shorthand for his speech, where he just had a more economical way of speaking than the people around him.

[Squidbot]

Right, handbags at dawn! How dare you have an opinion that is different to mine?

[Bone]

Handbags, eh? I'm intrigued. Are we going to fight with fashion?

[Squidbot]

Not with that hair.

[Bone]

No you di'nt, girlfriend!

[Voodoo]

Like Harrison Ford said to Lucas during the filming of one the Star Wars movies: "You can type this shit, George, but you sure can't say it".
I wish that Harrison had been on set for Episodes 1 to 3. :(

[ShivaX]

I wish that Harrison had been on set for Episodes 1 to 3. :(

Well evidently his presence doesn't matter if the script is shitty.

[Widgetcraft]

Well evidently his presence doesn't matter if the script is shitty.

I still say that, as far as the plot goes, the first three episodes were mostly fine. If they had anyone else in the world play Anakin they would have been far better movies. They could have used a lot less Jar-Jar in Episode 1, too.

[Bone]

Plot was OK; the words coming out of the actors mouths was far worse than even the acceptable campy sci-fi of the original trilogy. In my opinion.

[Superman's Dead]

Plot was OK; the words coming out of the actors mouths was far worse than even the acceptable campy sci-fi of the original trilogy. In my opinion.

I dunno...those lines that Luke had to say were pretty horrific. I think Lucas got lucky. Doing those lines well and taking yourself seriously? It needed the mix of fresh blood and old tired veterans that it had. Reading about Alec Guinness and his life, it makes Star Wars seem far more rare.

Hayden was bad. Bad bad bad. Look at how well Ewan could work with the camp and make his character believable. And I know how skilled Natalie Portman is, but she was no Carrie Fisher...although that could be the bizarre character she was given.

[Bone]

Yeah, the difference to me was the lack of sarcasm or real personality in the dialogue. Everything was black and white in the new trilogy.

Yes, Luke got some hammy dialogue, but the power converter line works as a genuine complaint for a teenager. Anakin got to bitch about sand and how it gets in his crack. Just miles apart in my opinion.

[violent]

I just finished the book and I read the spoiler. I say, keep the original. All these comic book movies don't have to be so parallel to reality. The book's ending needs no refinement.

[Superman's Dead]

Yeah, the difference to me was the lack of sarcasm or real personality in the dialogue. Everything was black and white in the new trilogy.

Yes, Luke got some hammy dialogue, but the power converter line works as a genuine complaint for a teenager. Anakin got to bitch about sand and how it gets in his crack. Just miles apart in my opinion.

I was thinking more along Obi-Wan's lines...and Luke's "planet that's farthest from?" Bright center to the universe? I imagine having to cold read for that part and get shuddery.

Ugh...I'd forgotten about Episode I's 'humor'.

[axion]

Wow, that was cool.

[biosc1]

Anyone seen this yet?

HighDefDigest (http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/show/Disc_Announcements/Warner/Comic_Book_Movies/Watchmen_Graphic_Novel_Coming_to_Blu-ray/2432)

Warner has announced it will bring 'Watchmen: The Complete Motion Comic (http://bluray.highdefdigest.com/watchmencompletemotioncomic.html)' to life on Blu-ray in early March.
Spanning 12 chapters and over five hours in length, 'Watchmen: The Complete Motion Comic' presents the entire original 'Watchmen' graphic novel in full-length animated form.

[Mr. Murphy]

Anyone seen this yet?

HighDefDigest (http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/show/Disc_Announcements/Warner/Comic_Book_Movies/Watchmen_Graphic_Novel_Coming_to_Blu-ray/2432)

Not much for detail in the article. I wonder who will be doing the voice acting and what kind of animation this will be?

They can shit out the crappiest crap that's ever been crapped and people will buy it in the wake of the movie.

Edit: So apparently this already exists, and was downloadable from iTunes.

"Plot Synopsis: Watched any great books lately? Now you can. The most celebrated graphic novel of all time that broke the conventional mold continues to break new ground WATCHMEN illustrator Dave Gibbons oversees this digital version of the graphic novel that adds limited motion, voice and sound to the books strikingly drawn panels. All 12 chapters of the story are here nearly 5 hours spanning everything from the mysterious demise of the Comedian to the crisscrossed destinies of loosely allied superheroes to their fateful impact on the world. Be in the know. Be watching. With Watchmen: The Complete Motion Comic."

I read that one person does all of the voices. Sounds like crap to me. I can read, thank you.

[Whunpo]

I read that one person does all of the voices. Sounds like crap to me. I can read, thank you.

Yeah. It was some old dude. I saw the first episode when they gave it away for free. Imagine some old dude trying to voice Laurie. Yeah.
The animation wasn't terrible, but really, why? Just read the comic. It's not that long or hard to read. It's even got pictures.

[Bone]

Well that's not far removed from audio books. I remember listening to Song of Ice and Fire audio books, and while Sansa and Arya sounded funny coming from a dude's mouth, it was still decent to listen to.

[Mr. Murphy]

Well that's not far removed from audio books. I remember listening to Song of Ice and Fire audio books, and while Sansa and Arya sounded funny coming from a dude's mouth, it was still decent to listen to.

I do love audiobooks and I get what you're saying - for me, it's just if I'm going to be looking at it anyway (since it's a "motion comic") I'd rather not have to hear some guy delivering lines in a way that doesn't match what's in my head. It would feel too much like reading Song of Ice and Fire at the same time I listened tot he audiobook.

[Urizen]

I still say that, as far as the plot goes, the first three episodes were mostly fine. If they had anyone else in the world play Anakin they would have been far better movies. They could have used a lot less Jar-Jar in Episode 1, too.

I hope you're aware Christiansen was asked to act poorly personally by George Lucas. He wanted, for some reason, for Anakin to appear as wooden as he does.

Hayden Christiansen is not a rare talent but the rest of his work shows he has more chops than the Episodes 2 and 3 show. Lucas directed him to deliver those AWFUL lines as poorly as it appears.

[ShivaX]

I hope you're aware Christiansen was asked to act poorly personally by George Lucas. He wanted, for some reason, for Anakin to appear as wooden as he does.

Hayden Christiansen is not a rare talent but the rest of his work shows he has more chops than the Episodes 2 and 3 show. Lucas directed him to deliver those AWFUL lines as poorly as it appears.

So he wanted someone who fell to their passions to be portrayed as a passionless robot?

Actually that sounds about like Lucas. Somehow he laid a golden egg, but usually he just craps himself and tries to sell us his shit. Of course millions of people buy that shit and look for flecks of gold to redeem themselves, while others are actually convinced that shit and gold are the same substance and the rest of us are inferior for not getting it.

[Squidbot]

Shiva, you have the post count of the beast! You may never post again!

[muddi900]

Shiva, you have the post count of the beast! You may never post again!

"Saaacrifice, is going on tonite!"

[cppcrusader]

That makes about as much sense as shoving a cactus up your urethra.

Nah, it makes perfect sense. Lucas is a horrible director, he always has been. A New Hope was a fluke for him that I attribute entirely to the cast and effects team. If he hadn't taken on so much responsibility the first time and gotten overwhelmed enough by to want to pass the directing to someone else for Empire and Jedi I'm certain they would have ended up just like the prequels. The only thing Lucas has ever done well is write the story and produce.

Hayden's performance I blame almost entirely on Lucas, the bit that's left over I blame Hayden for not being able to deal with a horrible director well enough.

[Bone]

Beautiful black & white portraits of the Watchmen and supporting cast (http://www.movienewz.com/2009/01/29/watchmen-portraits/)!

Notice Max Headroom as (recently assassinated) Moloch, Big Figure and his cronies, a beat-up Walter Kovacs and his psychologist, and more. Great stuff.

Also, Billy Crudup (Manhattan) is apparently wearing an apparatus to make his hands glow, and dots on his face for CGI tracking.

More photos here (http://www.totalfilm.com/features/nite-owl-ii-s-antarctica-suit#content)... Amazing shot of Nite Owl's snow suit, a great one of Doc before he goes glowy, a Rorscach CGI test, some... excited villians, another action shot with Manhattan's "glow suit", and finally a wonderful side-by-side comparison of Rorschach in print vs film.

[Telefrog]

I hope you're aware Christiansen was asked to act poorly personally by George Lucas. He wanted, for some reason, for Anakin to appear as wooden as he does.

Hayden Christiansen is not a rare talent but the rest of his work shows he has more chops than the Episodes 2 and 3 show. Lucas directed him to deliver those AWFUL lines as poorly as it appears.

God knows I hate defending Lucas, but this rumor is ridiculous. Isn't it easier to acknowledge that Hayden is a fuck-awful actor and his "performances" are his best effort? (Please see any other movie with him in it for evidence.) Hayden is crap. Seriously.

That still doesn't let George off the hook since he cast the guy and directed the rest of the movies.

[Squidbot]

http://www.movienewz.com/wp-content/gallery/watchman_portraits/wp_56.jpg

Big Figure. Small World.

The guy on the left looks like a Gibonns drawing.

[Bone]

More video. Good stuff.

"The Keene Act & YOU (1977)"

n5WsciSNVS0

[Bone]

No? Didn't do it for you? Here's a behind the scenes on Rorschach and how they filmed his mask.

http://link.brightcove.com/services/player/bcpid494808768?bctid=10346945001

[Whunpo]

No? Didn't do it for you? Here's a behind the scenes on Rorschach and how they filmed his mask.

http://link.brightcove.com/services/player/bcpid494808768?bctid=10346945001

There was some really good Rorschach shots in there that I hadn't seen before. Good stuff.

[DarkDay]

Nah, it makes perfect sense. Lucas is a horrible director, he always has been. A New Hope was a fluke for him that I attribute entirely to the cast and effects team. If he hadn't taken on so much responsibility the first time and gotten overwhelmed enough by to want to pass the directing to someone else for Empire and Jedi I'm certain they would have ended up just like the prequels. The only thing Lucas has ever done well is write the story and produce.

Hayden's performance I blame almost entirely on Lucas, the bit that's left over I blame Hayden for not being able to deal with a horrible director well enough.


Off topic a bit, I was at the theater a couple years ago and they had an interview with him about the first 2 films, and he said its near impossible to act what Lucas writes and be considered believable. When I read that I laughed but was also shocked he had the balls to say it, respect points for him after that.

Obviously I didn't get it exact and it was one of those movie theater rags.

Also an old client of mine was roommates with Hayden when he got the part, he was stoked so I hear just that he was Darth. From what I remember he walked in and said, I got it, im darth Vadar, and hit the bong.

Take that for what you will, but I got a kick out of it.

Been told hes a very good guy and very relaxed.

[Bone]

As noted by AICN, there is an official tie-in Flash game available. It's an old-school 8-bit arcade game, appropriately detailing the Minutemen. You can play as Silk Spectre I or Nite Owl I, and while it's pretty basic, it plays sort of like River City Ransom (but without the ability to pick up weapons).

http://www.minutemenarcade.com/uk/

[Squidbot]

Trailer for the Tales of the Black freighter (http://splashpage.mtv.com/2009/02/13/exclusive-tales-of-the-black-freighter-trailer-get-your-first-look-here-watchmen-fans/), now online.

Hmm, I do hope that music is just for the trailer.

[muddi900]

Zack Snyder is from the late 90's crop of Music Video directors. He loves nu metal.

[Froghourt]

Having the Tales of the Black freighter be a separate movie seems a little strange to me. Will it complement the Watchmen movie, in the same way the Black freighter comic complemented the Watchmen comic or what?

[EternalGamer]

I haven't read this original graphic novel (though I've intended to for some time) but I just want to say that as someone who has gone to ALOT of movies over the last 3 weeks, I am sick of this film's trailer.

I know you can't judge a film by its trailer, but if the goal of a trailer is to make you want to see a film, this one utterly failed. It looked absurd and lifeless as if every scene was people trying to strike a cool "pose" rather than act in a scene.

Then again, this is the dude who made 300, which was possibly the most ridiculious film I have seen in years. That film was nothing but a series exaggerated "cool" poses without any real humanity. It was a film in which, if people brushed their teeth, they'd have to do so in huge lumbering strokes with slow motion spittle shooting out the sides of their mouth to orchestral chanting music with fire and tits in the background. It had the aesthetic sensibilities of a 10 year old boy (mountains of SKULLS and FIRE!) combined with that of an overly horny flaming gay guy who really has a thing for S&M and rippling, sweaty muscles. The entire thing also looked very cheap, like it was shot in front of a pre-rendered videogame backdrop because they couldn't afford real sets.

Watchmen actually has a lot of recognition as a graphic novel and I know a lot of friends whom I really respect who speak fairly highly of it. But with the 300 dude at the helm, I certainly wouldn't have very high expectations.

[muddi900]

300 wasn't the directors fault. It was the source material's fault. Crazy Frank Miller is crazy!

Having the Tales of the Black freighter be a separate movie seems a little strange to me. Will it complement the Watchmen movie, in the same way the Black freighter comic complemented the Watchmen comic or what?

Did it now? I loved it, but the only reason it was there was to show what might've happened to comics!

[mister slim]

That's just its face value. Pay attention to the levels of desperation and emotion in Black Freighter in comparison to what is happening parallel in the story. I get the feeling you didn't realize the full depth of Watchmen when you read it. :)

If you look closely, much of the Black Freighter text is commenting on the main story panel it's in, and vice versa. It's one of those clever things that can only be done in comics, which is why I think it's wise to skip it in the movie. Another less important reason for the inclusion of the Black Freighter story is that the author of it is responsible for helping execute the final stage of Ozymandias' plan.

[Kagger]

Did it now? I loved it, but the only reason it was there was to show what might've happened to comics!

Watchmen being the only comic book I've read, are you referring to what would have happened had there not been a large censorship?

[crazyD]

Watchmen being the only comic book I've read, are you referring to what would have happened had there not been a large censorship?

No, if there were super heroes in real life, so people didn't look to them as much for escapism, and read pirate comics instead.

[muddi900]

That's just its face value. Pay attention to the levels of desperation and emotion in Black Freighter in comparison to what is happening parallel in the story. I get the feeling you didn't realize the full depth of Watchmen when you read it. :)

You, sir, just called me stupid. While I admire your ingenuity, I will have none of that. I challenge you to duel *glove slap*

I think the story could have been a lot more "economical" without Black Freighter. There are a lot of ways to show desperation, as you put it, but the comic was there as a wink to the readers, like, "This is what comics could've been!"

Though I agree, the animated movie is more pointless.

[mister slim]

I think the story could have been a lot more "economical" without Black Freighter. There are a lot of ways to show desperation, as you put it, but the comic was there as a wink to the readers, like, "This is what comics could've been!"

No, seriously, read it again. The Black Freighter sequences are why it depresses me that Watchmen is such an influential comic, because apparently everyone who read it (and The Dark Knight Returns) took the entirely wrong lessons from it. Rather than continuing to push comic storytelling forward everyone just went dark and cynical and we ended up with shit like most of Image and The Death of Superman. Every once in a while something like Sandman, Promethea or Planetary will pop up and make me optimistic, and then Marvel will recycle another old 'epic crossover'.

[muddi900]

No, seriously, read it again. The Black Freighter sequences are why it depresses me that Watchmen is such an influential comic, because apparently everyone who read it (and The Dark Knight Returns) took the entirely wrong lessons from it. Rather than continuing to push comic storytelling forward everyone just went dark and cynical and we ended up with shit like most of Image and The Death of Superman. Every once in a while something like Sandman, Promethea or Planetary will pop up and make me optimistic, and then Marvel will recycle another old 'epic crossover'.

I've read it thrice. As I said,I love it. But it does not do it's job well.

As far as comic storytelling is concerned, there is a lot of stuff not being printed by Dc or Marvel(or Image or Dark Horse), you should try them if you're dissatisfied. Publishers like Top Shelf and Drawn & Quarterly regularly print the experimental stuff. If you want something low-brow try stuff by Oni press.

[Voodoo]

I haven't read this original graphic novel (though I've intended to for some time) but I just want to say that as someone who has gone to ALOT of movies over the last 3 weeks, I am sick of this film's trailer.

I know you can't judge a film by its trailer, but if the goal of a trailer is to make you want to see a film, this one utterly failed. It looked absurd and lifeless as if every scene was people trying to strike a cool "pose" rather than act in a scene.

Then again, this is the dude who made 300, which was possibly the most ridiculious film I have seen in years. That film was nothing but a series exaggerated "cool" poses without any real humanity. It was a film in which, if people brushed their teeth, they'd have to do so in huge lumbering strokes with slow motion spittle shooting out the sides of their mouth to orchestral chanting music with fire and tits in the background. It had the aesthetic sensibilities of a 10 year old boy (mountains of SKULLS and FIRE!) combined with that of an overly horny flaming gay guy who really has a thing for S&M and rippling, sweaty muscles. The entire thing also looked very cheap, like it was shot in front of a pre-rendered videogame backdrop because they couldn't afford real sets.

Watchmen actually has a lot of recognition as a graphic novel and I know a lot of friends whom I really respect who speak fairly highly of it. But with the 300 dude at the helm, I certainly wouldn't have very high expectations.

Let me start by first stating that I see a lot of movies with a variety of people and nearly all of them had no clue what Watchmen is. It certainly has a lot of recognition among a great deal of people, but not among the general populace. I'm familiar with Watchmen and when I saw the trailers I was able to directly link the scenes I saw with a panel on the comic. I'm not sure what trailers you had seen that made you think otherwise.

Regarding 300, I never read the comic. I will say, though, that your assessment of it is confuddled. I went in to the movie knowing that it was going to be over-the-top. If anyone went into 300 expecting a pseudo-documentary then their disappointment is self-inflicted. 300, as a movie, did what it intended to do and it did it very well.

Also, who's this guy? An overly horny flaming gay guy who really has a thing for S&M and rippling, sweaty muscles. My first guess is Xerxes but by the looks of his pleasure palace he wasn't as how you described and I seriously doubt he had all that for Mr Humpy Back. Perhaps watching 300 just makes you feel uncomfortable?

[muddi900]

Also, who's this guy? An overly horny flaming gay guy who really has a thing for S&M and rippling, sweaty muscles. My first guess is Xerxes but by the looks of his pleasure palace he wasn't as how you described and I seriously doubt he had all that for Mr Humpy Back. Perhaps watching 300 just makes you feel uncomfortable?

I think he's referring to the mind that thought up 300. Again, crazy Frank Miller is crazy.

[Bone]

You, sir, just called me stupid. While I admire your ingenuity, I will have none of that. I challenge you to duel *glove slap*

I think the story could have been a lot more "economical" without Black Freighter. There are a lot of ways to show desperation, as you put it, but the comic was there as a wink to the readers, like, "This is what comics could've been!"

Though I agree, the animated movie is more pointless.No really, you must have totally missed it. The Black Freighter helped tell the story in parallel, and served to highlight certain actions and meaning in the main story.

The animated movie as a standalone may now be pointless as a storytelling device, but is a great deal of fan service.

[Telefrog]

I think he's referring to the mind that thought up 300. Again, crazy Frank Miller is crazy.

This.

I have to join in only because so very few people read 300. The movie (sans all the Queen Gorgo subplot) is almost a shot-for-shot recreation of the comic. Say what you will about the stylized depiction of faux Spartans and homoerotic subtext, but Zack Snyder absolutely nailed it as far as putting the pages on the screen.

For evidence of Frank Miller's bugshit craziness, check out The Spirit, RoboCop 3, The Dark Knight Strikes Again, or All Star Batman and Robin. He is really nuts now. Like football bat insane.

[TheFlyingOrc]

No really, you must have totally missed it. The Black Freighter helped tell the story in parallel, and served to highlight certain actions and meaning in the main story.

Yeah, I'm guessing he didn't get that the main character in The Black Freighter IS Ozymandias.

The shark is Rorshach! I just realized this the last time I read it.

Also, the best character in the story is The Comedian. I don't care what anyone else says.

[Mr. Murphy]

It looked absurd and lifeless as if every scene was people trying to strike a cool "pose" rather than act in a scene.

Have you ever read a comic book? That's what comic books look like. This isn't your typical movie-based-on-a-comic-book, this is a movie of a comic book.

I'm sure, just like comics, that it won't be for everybody. But whether you liked 300, Sin City and Watchmen or not, all three of them portrayed comics in movie-form in a way that hadn't been done before this decade - these are movies that put the panel on the screen, not movies that use the panels as inspiration. Comic book outfits, dialogue, and poses seem vaguely silly and over-the-top when you see real people bringing them to life, but that's what keeps this a faithful adaptation - if they took Watchmen and made a Batman Begins out of it, it might appeal more to people like you and non-comic book fans, but it wouldn't be a true adaptation anymore.

[Primus]

There are so many undertones in this movie that if you just look the change at a glance it may seem like the squid and nuke are swappable, but as some of you are pointing out this really effects a lot of things throughout the story. Nothing in the book can be taken just for its face value, and this change threatens a few major points in the story.

Eh whatever, this is a movie intended for your mom and sister anyways. We will always have the book. Perhaps, as Moore said, you don't make a Watchmen movie.

[Mr. Murphy]

Eh whatever, this is a movie intended for your mom and sister anyways.

We won't know for sure until we see it, but I don't get this vibe at all. It seems like a move made for Snyder, and Snyder seems like a Watchmen obsessed geek just like us.

[Telefrog]

Yeah, I'm guessing he didn't get that the main character in The Black Freighter IS Ozymandias.

The shark is Rorshach! I just realized this the last time I read it.

The detective gives the reader that clue when he initially mis-hears the "anonymous" phone tip and asks "Why would I want any raw shark?"

[TheFlyingOrc]

There are so many undertones in this movie that if you just look the change at a glance it may seem like the squid and nuke are swappable, but as some of you are pointing out this really effects a lot of things throughout the story. Nothing in the book can be taken just for its face value, and this change threatens a few major points in the story.


What I've heard recently is that the reason Snyder made the change was because it was almost completely impossible to explain to the audience what was going up with the alien squid thing without adding HUGE amounts of screen time to what is already going to be a freakishly long movie.

The plot calls for Adrian to turn all of earth against an outside foe who completely fills them with fear and hopelessness. I'll be more ballsy than others posting in this thread - I think that makes for a slightly BETTER story than the original one, and Dr. Manhattan severing his ties with humanity because they must fear him is pretty awesome, and actually kinda reminiscent to the ending of Dark Knight.


Eh whatever, this is a movie intended for your mom and sister anyways. We will always have the book. Perhaps, as Moore said, you don't make a Watchmen movie.

The R rating means that they're refusing to make it as mass market as possible.

[Mr. Murphy]

The plot calls for Adrian to turn all of earth against an outside foe who completely fills them with fear and hopelessness. I'll be more ballsy than others posting in this thread - I think that makes for a slightly BETTER story than the original one, and Dr. Manhattan severing his ties with humanity because they must fear him is pretty awesome, and actually kinda reminiscent to the ending of Dark Knight.

I absolutely love the comic, first read it seven years ago, and that ending literally took my breath away with it's unexpectedness and the fantastical means by which it happened. I thought it was amazing and when I first heard they were changing it I was flabbergasted.

However, I pretty quickly came to agree with everything you just said.

[TheFlyingOrc]

The detective gives the reader that clue when he initially mis-hears the "anonymous" phone tip and asks "Why would I want any raw shark?"

Yeah. I missed that. I also didn't catch that Hooded Justice and Captain Metropolis were gay, so I'm obviously not paying attention.

[Whunpo]

Yeah, I'm guessing he didn't get that the main character in The Black Freighter IS Ozymandias.

The shark is Rorshach! I just realized this the last time I read it.
Holy shit! I never realized that! I need to re-read so badly!

[mister slim]

As far as comic storytelling is concerned, there is a lot of stuff not being printed by Dc or Marvel(or Image or Dark Horse), you should try them if you're dissatisfied. Publishers like Top Shelf and Drawn & Quarterly regularly print the experimental stuff. If you want something low-brow try stuff by Oni press.

You're talking to a guy who gives Lost Girls and Alice in Sunderland pride of place on my bookshelf. Oni and Dark Horse are both located here in Portland (Jamie Rich actually lives in my building).

[Whunpo]

You're talking to a guy who gives Lost Girls and Alice in Sunderland pride of place on my bookshelf. Oni and Dark Horse are both located here in Portland (Jamie Rich actually lives in my building).

Haha, yeah. I went into a comic shop in portland once, started talking to the owner, and he was like "Yeah, my brother owns Dark Horse. He's in India right now overseeing the production of Hellboy 2."
That was the day I bought Watchmen, actually.

[muddi900]

You're talking to a guy who gives Lost Girls and Alice in Sunderland pride of place on my bookshelf. Oni and Dark Horse are both located here in Portland (Jamie Rich actually lives in my building).

Well pardon my language then, but what were you bitching about?

[Telefrog]

Here's our first look at a full scene (http://defamer.com/5155166/watchmen-producers-confident-enough-to-release-terrible-first-scene-into-the-wild).

[Voodoo]

Here's our first look at a full scene (http://defamer.com/5155166/watchmen-producers-confident-enough-to-release-terrible-first-scene-into-the-wild).

Hurm, hurm, hurm, hurm, hurm, hurm.

[Bone]

Really? I like almost all of these scenes. Dan, Ozy, Rorschach and the Comedian seem perfect. Manhattan looks great as a mortal. Silk Spectre II- well, her previous noteworthy role was to be beautiful and naked in Harold and Kumar. So I'm not surprised her delivery is flat, but I assume it's because she'll shortly be beautiful and naked with Nite Owl.

I dug Ozy's delivery a lot. Especially knowing what we know he knows when Dan is warning him about the murders.

However, I do think the slow motion bullshit needs to go. It just about ruins the Comedian's entry into that riot.

[Telefrog]

Yeah, I have to agree. It doesn't feel like it is used to great effect, just when they want to spice up a particular scene.

Looking back at 300, it appears Zack Snyder uses it to emphasize action moments that directly mirror the comic panel or to draw out new scenes that he feels would've been shown on the paper. I guess it's his technique to convey the "panels" in a moving medium.

I'm not sure how successfully that translates into Watchmen thus far. It was fine in 300, because the book was very action-oriented and heavy on dynamic movement. You could almost see the "panels" on the screen. Watchmen (and really all of Moore's stuff) is more about conversations and capturing subtle shifts in motion. He scripted Watchmen to purposefully avoid a lot of action to emphasize how the heroes' normal MO really couldn't help them with this case.

Still, I'm holding out hope for this.

[Whunpo]

WIRED has a really good article about the movie that I think everyone who's here would enjoy. I think that Watchmen isn't going to turn out to be what it really should be, but I can tell Snyder put everything he had into it.
I have no school on Friday March 6th. A sign that this will be the greatest night of my life? I sure do hope so.

[Telefrog]

Reviews are coming in!

Empire (http://www.empireonline.com/reviews/reviewcomplete.asp?FID=11018) - 4/5 Stars.

SlashFilm (http://www.slashfilm.com/2009/02/23/footage-from-watchmen-premiere-and-my-video-review/#more-20825) - Liked it.

Granted, these are two of the more geeky review sources, so I'm inclined to think they may be biased towards the source material. I'm curious to see what mainstream reviewers think of it.

Edit: Den of Geek! (http://www.denofgeek.com/movies/208534/watchmen_review.html) liked it a lot. In fact, there may be a bit of fanboy hyperbole here.

Comparisons will inevitably occur between the film and the 2008 movie that 'made comic movies artful', The Dark Knight. However, it is in Watchmen's ensemble nature, wide canvas and deep complexity that it trounces the best efforts of Christopher Nolan's staggeringly successful blockbuster.

That's some mighty tall talk.

Finally, a dissenting review. News of The World (http://www.newsoftheworld.co.uk/entertainment/film/article193648.ece) did not like it.

[Disgustipated]

WIRED has a really good article about the movie that I think everyone who's here would enjoy. I think that Watchmen isn't going to turn out to be what it really should be, but I can tell Snyder put everything he had into it.
I have no school on Friday March 6th. A sign that this will be the greatest night of my life? I sure do hope so.

You need to live a bit longer if you think a movie is the greatest night of your life. And aren't you the biggest bitch on CoG about how they "ruined" this movie? Yeah... funny how things change. :cool:

[Iron Past]

I expect this movie to receive nothing but bile and loathing from the super fans of the book. I, however, am sure I'll like it. I actually like the clips I've seen, so there's no reason to think otherwise. :)

[Whunpo]

You need to live a bit longer if you think a movie is the greatest night of your life. And aren't you the biggest bitch on CoG about how they "ruined" this movie? Yeah... funny how things change. :cool:
First off, if you thought what I said was anything more than vast exaggeration, you're quite mistaken. I'm simply hoping it will be a good movie and a fun night.
Second, I never claimed they ruined the movie. I just think they changed it in ways they didn't have to, which will make it less enjoyable for us fans. Mark my words: someone like you who goes in expecting to see Watchmen in film form is going to be disappointed.

[Ink Asylum]

I'm much more interested in seeing reviews from non-geeks who haven't read the book. It's just my hunch, but I doubt this movie has the mainstream hit potential that The Dark Knight had. It's just a bit too out there.

[Telefrog]

I'm much more interested in seeing reviews from non-geeks who haven't read the book. It's just my hunch, but I doubt this movie has the mainstream hit potential that The Dark Knight had. It's just a bit too out there.

I certainly don't believe it will come close to Dark Knight's numbers, but I have no doubt that the power of marketing will push this movie's box office into very profitable territory.

Like you, I'm curious to see what more mainstream reviewers make of it. So far, the movie geek blogs and sites have loved it, but I think they are inclined to be forgiving of any genre movie. My mind turns back to the stellar reviews the blogs gave Revenge of the Sith... :p

[Ink Asylum]

The intensity of a lot of the material may turn off people going in expecting a typical super hero romp. I'm not saying it'll be a bad movie, but that mainstream expectations will be for something very different than what they get. That'll kill the movie's numbers after opening weekend, after people who might be turned off by the violence and dark themes warn away their friends and families.

This is a geek's movie at its core. I imagine someone will get a lot less out of it if they aren't invested in the mythology of comics.

I warned my mother away from seeing this movie, because I know she was expecting it to be just another super hero movie. When I described some of what happens in the book she was shocked, as none of that really came through in the marketing she had seen.

[Superman's Dead]

The intensity of a lot of the material may turn off people going in expecting a typical super hero romp. I'm not saying it'll be a bad movie, but that mainstream expectations will be for something very different than what they get. That'll kill the movie's numbers after opening weekend, after people who might be turned off by the violence and dark themes warn away their friends and families.

This is a geek's movie at its core. I imagine someone will get a lot less out of it if they aren't invested in the mythology of comics.

I warned my mother away from seeing this movie, because I know she was expecting it to be just another super hero movie. When I described some of what happens in the book she was shocked, as none of that really came through in the marketing she had seen.

I dunno...I think it might surprise us. The plot is so well-scripted and formed, the characters play off of each other so well. Even if it's not as good as the comic but those elements alone are there I think it'll get any praise it deserves. Were you on the edge of your seat while Veidt was giving his speech to Rorschach and Nite Owl? I was. I was flipping pages like a motherfucker hoping Rorschach would stab him with a fork.

[Telefrog]

I warned my mother away from seeing this movie, because I know she was expecting it to be just another super hero movie. When I described some of what happens in the book she was shocked, as none of that really came through in the marketing she had seen.

I'm expecting to go to the theatre and see idiot parents with young children in there thinking they're going to see an Ironman family-friendly good time and instead getting an eyeful of kink as Dan and Laurie get it on in partial costume. :D

Quint (http://www.aintitcool.com/node/40228) and Harry (http://www.aintitcool.com/node/40225) both liked it, but again both of these guys loved Revenge of the Sith as well. Hey, but Quint did notice the exact thing I pointed out (http://www.colonyofgamers.com/cogforums/showpost.php?p=185851&postcount=241).

The slow motion isn’t over-used, but when he does use it he does it for a reason. I remember reading somewhere that Snyder said he’s using slow motion in this film as a way to make it feel more like the audience is reading the comic and it’s absolutely true. He slow motions on the splash pages or half-splashes… the incredible moments where you’d stop reading and take a moment to admire Dave Gibbons’ awesome work. Every moment where there’s slow motion I felt was picked specifically to reflect that feeling.

[Ink Asylum]

I have no doubt the movie will impress fans of the book, but I just don't see it wowing mainstream crowds like The Dark Knight. That's not a bad thing. Plenty of amazing movies get ignored by the masses, while crap movies break the bank. It's just an observation.

[Superman's Dead]

This movie will be so much better written than TDK, though! Just as a movie goer, without having read Watchmen, I'm almost positive I'd fall in love with the movie like I did with Sin City.

[muddi900]

This movie will be so much better written than TDK, though! Just as a movie goer, without having read Watchmen, I'm almost positive I'd fall in love with the movie like I did with Sin City.

You know that without watching the movie?

Also, Sin City was not written. It was crapped out of Frank Miller's anus.

[Ink Asylum]

This movie will be so much better written than TDK, though! Just as a movie goer, without having read Watchmen, I'm almost positive I'd fall in love with the movie like I did with Sin City.

You seem to think I'm attacking Watchmen. I'm not. It's an excellent story and bound to be an excellent movie. I'm saying that it won't appeal to the mainstream, which has nothing to do with the quality of the film.

[Iron Past]

You seem to think I'm attacking Watchmen. I'm not. It's an excellent story and bound to be an excellent movie. I'm saying that it won't appeal to the mainstream, which has nothing to do with the quality of the film.

That's what I'm leaning towards, but I don't know. I think there'll be a spike the first week, taper off, then get some legs as people realize what it really is. Plenty of people enjoy intelletual movies, but those people may not like comic movies, so there might be a delayed reaction.

[Disgustipated]

Mark my words: someone like you who goes in expecting to see Watchmen in film form is going to be disappointed.

Mark my words, you're full of shit. Why? Because I've never claimed, at any point, that I'd be viewing the Watchmen as anything more than a movie adaption of my favorite book. What does this mean? This simply means that I'm able to separate the movie from the book, and take it on its own terms, as an alternative version of the Watchmen.

Don't be such a hypocrite, you're the one that has (all along) been outspoken about your disapproval of this movie. I suggest you not put views into my mouth that have neither been expressed nor believed in. :p

Also, just to make you eat your own words, some quotes from earlier in the thread (2-3 months ago):

This actually sounds fine. I might be a Watchmen fanboy but I approve. It's definitely a neat take on the ending.

But yeah, the original ending was incredible.

Normally, it would sound fine. It doesn't sound like it's that bad. But I don't trust anyone changing the Watchmen story who isn't Alan Moore. Nobody should be trying to fine tune Watchmen.

...They're talking about the Watchmen. As in, calling themselves the Watchmen.
Fuck.
Jon sounds wrong, so does Rorschach.
And they blatantly just changed some of the lines.
I'm scared. :(

Nope. Snyder confirmed that it was changed in that interview.
And them being called Watchmen is only part of it. All of the lines were tweaked, just a bit, for seemingly no apparent reason. As if to just give Moore a big "Fuck You."

I don't understand you guys. Look at the track record for a good comic book movie. When does it EVER live up to the hype? Why will Watchmen be so different?

Heh.

[Ink Asylum]

That's what I'm leaning towards, but I don't know. I think there'll be a spike the first week, taper off, then get some legs as people realize what it really is. Plenty of people enjoy intelletual movies, but those people may not like comic movies, so there might be a delayed reaction.

I won't mind being proved wrong. I think comic fans will be pleased, except for the really strict nit-pickers, critics will mostly recognize what the movie is about, film buffs will appreciate how deep it is, while the rest of the people will be confused. They'll also be really restless watching it. People felt The Dark Knight was too long, isn't Watchmen even longer?

[Iron Past]

I won't mind being proved wrong. I think comic fans will be pleased, except for the really strict nit-pickers, critics will mostly recognize what the movie is about, film buffs will appreciate how deep it is, while the rest of the people will be confused. They'll also be really restless watching it. People felt The Dark Knight was too long, isn't Watchmen even longer?

I believe it clocks in at 3 hours (with the Director's Cut--which might see limited release--being significantly longer). That's a long ass movie, but I think Benjamin Button was around that and it did well for itself.

By the way, I just read how they did the end in the film, and I must say I'm a little disapointed, if only because I thought the reveal would have made a hell of a scene. Truthfully, though, I'd believe it more than the ending in the comic, so it's cool.

[Bone]

The theatrical cut is 2:40, from what I've read.

I also hear that the Director's cut will actually splice together the Curse of the Black Freighter properly, with "more footage of the Bernies" which was apparently all shot to make the merging just like the comic book. This, if done right, will be just fucking awesome.

[TheFlyingOrc]

The theatrical cut is 2:40, from what I've read.

I also hear that the Director's cut will actually splice together the Curse of the Black Freighter properly, with "more footage of the Bernies" which was apparently all shot to make the merging just like the comic book. This, if done right, will be just fucking awesome.

My understanding is there's a regular directors cut AND a director's cut + Black Freighter.

[Iron Past]

My understanding is there's a regular directors cut AND a director's cut + Black Freighter.

This is what I've heard as well. Plus the Tales of the Black Freighter DVD. Goodness, but they're trying to please alot of people here. Not that I'm complaining, at least they seem to be trying to do right by the fans.

[Froghourt]

So now we have at least three versions of the same movie? That seems like a lot, especially if they start selling them at the same time.

Still the director's cut + Black Freighter has got me all excited. I never understood why they would want to make The Black Freighter a separate move, but having it inside the live action movie as a cartoon? Genius.

[Telefrog]

has got me all excited. I never understood why they would want to make The Black Freighter a separate move, but having it inside the live action movie as a cartoon? Genius.

Honestly, based on the quality of the animation, I can see why splitting it off for the theatrical version was for the best.

[Whunpo]

Mark my words, you're full of shit. Why? Because I've never claimed, at any point, that I'd be viewing the Watchmen as anything more than a movie adaption of my favorite book. What does this mean? This simply means that I'm able to separate the movie from the book, and take it on its own terms, as an alternative version of the Watchmen.

Don't be such a hypocrite, you're the one that has (all along) been outspoken about your disapproval of this movie. I suggest you not put views into my mouth that have neither been expressed nor believed in. :p

Also, just to make you eat your own words, some quotes from earlier in the thread (2-3 months ago):

Heh.
Yes. I have said that I am disappointed in the decisions that have been made on the movie. I stand by that opinion. I was really excited that my favorite piece of literature was being adapted into a movie. For a while, I honestly thought it would be properly translated and we would get the movie it really could be. But as more information came out, we found that there are a lot of changes to make it more widely accepted.
I'm disappointed, as any fan would be.
Does that mean that I'm not excited for the movie? No. It doesn't. When have I ever said that I'm not excited for the movie? I haven't.
I may have expressed doubts about the movie, but you're the one telling me I can't enjoy the movie. Go piss in someone else's cereal,

[Froghourt]

Honestly, based on the quality of the animation, I can see why splitting it off for the theatrical version was for the best.

Yeah, but if it was "just" a part of the main movie, I would find the animation quality much more excusable.

[Ancalagon]

The News of the World review was just ridiculous. The guy hated on the film without ever really saying why. Just that he hated it. It makes me care about his opinion about | | that much. Well, maybe a little less. The Empire review was much more coherent and along the lines of what I expected: not an epic masterpiece but as close as Synder willing could get. And I can live with that for now.

Edit: I found this comment on the News of the World review humorous:

He also spoilers the ending of the book. Way to go, jackass.

[KSmitty]

Saw a snippet of the Rorschach story last night on Heroes. It does look like they are staying pretty faithful to the book. I kinda feel bad for some of the general movie going audience, as they are going to go in expecting a "superhero" movie and come out having seen a dramatic film in a comic book setting.

[Bone]

I love how most reviews fawn over Jackie Earle Haley's (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0355097/) (Bad News Bears' Kelly Leak!!!) performance as Rorschach. Apparently his audition consisted of self-filmed footage of himself as Rorschach, both with and without mask, and he totally inhabited the role. Some people have said he's so raw and perfect in the prison scenes, they didn't want him to put the mask back on. I am so excited.

[Voodoo]

This shot is awesome.
http://i41.tinypic.com/rbij52.jpg

[KSmitty]

This shot is awesome.
http://i41.tinypic.com/rbij52.jpg

I'm not trapped in here with you...

[Voodoo]

Edit: Den of Geek! (http://www.denofgeek.com/movies/208534/watchmen_review.html) liked it a lot. In fact, there may be a bit of fanboy hyperbole here.

Re: Watchmen review

Posted By princesspeach 1 March 3, 2009 08:28:40 PM

The movie stunk. It was long and pointless and didn't make sense. It jumped all over the place, none of the characters storylines went together or with the movie as a whole. It was dark and bring and the opening intro was the longest I've ever seen in my life. It was a sign of BORING things to come. I only made it 1.5 hrs and then I had to leave the theatre. Maybe the last part of the movie had action in it, the rest sure did not!


Princesspeach is to be drawn and quartered!!!

[Disgustipated]

I may have expressed doubts about the movie, but you're the one telling me I can't enjoy the movie. Go piss in someone else's cereal,

Previously, on Whunpo:

Mark my words: someone like you who goes in expecting to see Watchmen in film form is going to be disappointed.

It's funny how you're baselessly accusing me of saying everything that you yourself have been saying. Good job on proving my point that you're a hypocrite.

[crazyD]

It's funny how you're baselessly accusing me of saying everything that you yourself have been saying. Good job on proving my point that you're a hypocrite.

He only said you'll be disappointed if you expect to see the book directly in film form. Disappointed also doesn't mean he won't like the movie. I was disappointed with Fallout 3, but it was still a pretty enjoyable game.

[TheFlyingOrc]

Yes. I have said that I am disappointed in the decisions that have been made on the movie. I stand by that opinion. I was really excited that my favorite piece of literature was being adapted into a movie. For a while, I honestly thought it would be properly translated and we would get the movie it really could be. But as more information came out, we found that there are a lot of changes to make it more widely accepted.
I'm disappointed, as any fan would be.

LOL the changes make for a better overall story.

[violent]

LOL the changes make for a better overall story.

You feel that the changes improve upon the original graphic novel?

[Bone]

I think the changes may improve the story as told in this different medium.

I also think that the squid, honestly, is a little much, the thing with the artists too, and so possibly this new ending may actually be better than the original in its original medium.

[alienmastermind]

We still on about this?!

Cool. Because I'm seeing it Sunday in IMAX.

Someone with the nethandle 'Princesspeach' probably should have noticed the R rating. Still, WB got her ten bucks so...'Hurm, hurm, hurm'.

Seriously though, check out this:

xbihKfChs50

And this one:

3wb_l3vJVhg

[Telefrog]

Princesspeach is to be drawn and quartered!!!

I have to wonder if that's even a true story. Who would get into an early showing of a genre film and walk out halfway through?

I've been to five early test screenings in my life. Even the two that I thought were a) horrible movies and b) in genres I didn't care for anyway didn't result in a walk-out. I mean... Free movie, right? If you agree to go to a test screening, what else do you have going in your day anyway?

[Rogue_hunter]

I keep flipping back and forth between really wanting to see the movie, and then vehemently wanting to boycott it. I completely understand the changing of the ending, but I fear that it might be too true to the book that the film will have no soul of its own.

That said, PAX goers can look forward to getting a "Watchbabies in V for Vacation" button from me, since I'm making it as a bonus button for the PAX forums button trading. One person is going to do the smiley face too.

[Whunpo]

He only said you'll be disappointed if you expect to see the book directly in film form. Disappointed also doesn't mean he won't like the movie. I was disappointed with Fallout 3, but it was still a pretty enjoyable game.
Thank you. Maybe he'll listen to you.
Right now it is rocking an amazing 33% on Metacritic. Seems it has no soul of its own, more of a companion piece.

An article about the reviews. (http://io9.com/5163828/bloggers-love-watchmen-but-theyre-on-their-own)
Sad. I wonder if the changes they made to it so it would be "more acceptable to the masses" helped it that much. It'll be interesting to see how much this one makes.
I'm still hoping I'll enjoy it. :o

[mister slim]

It's bad. See this clip:

xAqx2sUcsCY

Not only is it missing the fucking point, it's poorly choreographed, poorly directed, and just silly.

[Iron Past]

Right now it is rocking an amazing 33% on Metacritic. Seems it has no soul of its own, more of a companion piece.

And yet a 73% on Rotten Tomatoes (http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/watchmen/). So, yeah... reviewers and Metacritic suck and all that (so do most aggregate scoring sites, though). :)

[Iron Past]

Not only is it missing the fucking point, it's poorly choreographed, poorly directed, and just silly.

Is that the one where they go down the hallway punching people? I actually like it. But considering it's just a clip, you're not seeing it in context, so you have no idea if it's missing the point at all. The looks between the two characters suggest that this is an extension of the "being a hero helps me get it up" scene, and considering time limitations it wouldn't surprise me if themes were carried over a little different than the comic so that emphasis can be placed on key elements.

[Inspector Fowler]

I will see the movie, and later read the Watchmen comic. I did this with V for Vendetta. I still think both the comic and the movie were well done, thoughtful pieces.

As far as getting upset about changes, cry me a river, guys. Were you all about to boycott Batman Begins because a pre-Batman Bruce Wayne meets Ra's Al Ghul the ninja, they introduced a character named Rachel Dawes who has no counterpart in the comics, no bat crashed through the study window, etc? No, because Batman isn't "art" but when it comes to the holy man Moore, change a word and you might as well drown a baby.

If you've already decided it sucks, good, you just saved yourself $8. I just laugh at the impossible to please fanboys who somehow want WB to risk a couple hundred million on a movie that will appeal to the less than 1% of the US who has actually read Watchmen by slavishly copying the original without making any changes.

Give the movie a chance. If it stays true to the tone of the characters and the thematic intent of the original while raising the public's awareness of both the graphic novel and comics in general, then do you really lose out?