Civilization V

[Serapth]

Yeah, it's vastly beyond other structures in its city but not that far beyond other skyscrapers in the world, nor will it remain the tallest structure for long. In a decade or two there will be a building that much taller than its neighbors in pretty much every metropolis. It's just not that unique, nor will it have all that much effect on the region or the world compared to other wonders. A bunch of tourists will come see it, rich people and businesses will move in, but in fifty to a hundred years it won't remain amazing.

I do not deny that we can regularly build huge skyscrapers, because that ability is what makes them no longer world wonders. An iPhone is an amazing device in a historical context, and would be considered a wonder if it had come out during a time when smart phones weren't so commonplace. A wonder is something that is not only far beyond anything similar created before, but has an impact that isn't easily duplicated.

For a modern building to be comparable to older world wonders it would have to be something like the first space elevator, which ushers in a new age of space exploration and colonization, or tiling the state of Nevada with solar panels that provide enough green energy to take the US off fossil fuels.

I don't know, frankly historical wonders were all pretty amazing engineering feats for the time, but did they really have a profound effect on civilization? I am more talking about 7 wonders of the world more than wonders in Civ, since in Civ 5, they added a ton of new wonders, many of which are meh.

[Panthera]

I'd say the cause-effect relationship runs the other way - the Wonders are a clear indication of the combination of the logistic centralization that shows that a people can organize their labor and the artistic, cultural tradition that designs such a thing. Civ being a board game with historic flavor and not anything resembling a simulation, though, this is fine.

[Ink Asylum]

I don't know, frankly historical wonders were all pretty amazing engineering feats for the time, but did they really have a profound effect on civilization? I am more talking about 7 wonders of the world more than wonders in Civ, since in Civ 5, they added a ton of new wonders, many of which are meh.

The construction and cultural significance of ancient wonders had about as large an impact as they could at the time. That influence was largely local, though, due to the limitations of the era. The standards for an impressive feat worthy of being called a world wonder have risen, though, both in the technical skill invested and the impact on a civilization. Tall buildings just don't rise to that standard anymor, in my opinion. Their influence is not that significant and they aren't novel or unique enough to be recognized.

If you want to impress me with a tall building it would have to be radically different than other tall buildings. For instance, one that is fully self-sustaining, generates its own energy, has a very small ecological footprint, recycles wastewater, grows food, etc. Something like an arcology, as seen in Sim City 2000.

[Vandabo]

I've always thought the Channel Tunnel would be a great 'new' wonder for a civ game. Like if you had a city on a coast with another city on another coast 3 tiles away or less, you could make the chunnel in one of them, and it would connect them like a road, and give some sort of economic boost or something.

After all, the Chunnel is more of a feat than a lot of the current wonders, and has really changed the way people in that region get around.

[Serapth]

Or the Millau Bridge...

http://www.funonthenet.in/images/stories/frontend/Millau_Viaduct/millau_bridge_over_tarn_river_france.jpg Yes, its over the clouds.

[Serapth]

I've always thought the Channel Tunnel would be a great 'new' wonder for a civ game. Like if you had a city on a coast with another city on another coast 3 tiles away or less, you could make the chunnel in one of them, and it would connect them like a road, and give some sort of economic boost or something.

After all, the Chunnel is more of a feat than a lot of the current wonders, and has really changed the way people in that region get around.

Oh, and according to the American Society of Engineers, the Chunnel is a wonder of the modern world.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wonders_of_the_World

[Farsight]

If you want your project to be thought of as a Wonder, you'd better come up with a better name than "Chunnel".

The Panama Canal would make a great Wonder in Civ. Would require some rule tweaks though, since currently every city can act as one.

[Karak]

Yes. I finally got the game to get past the first screen. Woooo hoooo.
Still can't play it.
Good times.

I swear to shit this feels just like the fucking issues with Spore. I swear I should have just pirated this shitbird.

[Vigil80]

"Shitbird?" That seems rather strong. Seems like most people are having a rather smooth experience.

[Karak]

"Shitbird?" That seems rather strong. Seems like most people are having a rather smooth experience.

Well. I guess I could rate my experience on...everyone else:) It would make game playing much easier just to play games and experience them through the power of ESP.
Sadly I am not that empowered. So I sadly am stuck with...a nonworking game.

If a game didn't work for you, no matter what you did. Would you call it a smooth experience?
When and...sadly IF the game ever works fully and works well. I will replace shitbird with whatever kind of avian creature it seems to be at the time.
Hence me still trying to get the SHITBIRD flying:)
I would love to give it a chance trust me. I don't spend 60 bucks just to see a windows error. Those are usually free:(

[Vigil80]

Of course an experience is relative, and I realize the fact that something works for someone else is little consolation.

But in a case like this when something overwhelmingly works for others, perhaps it is something within your machine that is, in fact, the shitbird. ;)

I'm not trying to patronize you. It's just my first impression that it's probably not a problem for which a patch to the game itself is the remedy. We aren't talking about Elemental here.

[Karak]

Of course an experience is relative, and I realize the fact that something works for someone else is little consolation.

But in a case like this when something overwhelmingly works for others, perhaps it is something within your machine that is, in fact, the shitbird. ;)

I'm not trying to patronize you. It's just my first impression that it's probably not a problem for which a patch to the game itself is the remedy. We aren't talking about Elemental here.

EDIT: SNIP LONG RESPONSE.

Fuck it. I will go back to the forums where everyone else who is having the problem with their shitbird systems are. I will only post back when it works perfectly or we all fix our shitbird systems. So this perfect game can run on them.
Since I actually do you know...want this to run.

I leave this thread with the face I made after I installed this on a 3rd unrelated system that had the same error.
Enjoy
http://i51.tinypic.com/4qncjb.jpg
Double EDIT: That poor dude lost most his hair:(

[Vigil80]

I'm not personally aggravated, nor was I trying to aggravate. I apologize for suggesting a component of your computer was a shitbird. I mainly mean to say that it sounds like a freak problem that some minority of users are unlucky enough to experience sometimes. I consider it a cordial disagreement about the assessment that the game should therefore be pirated.

What is the nature of the issue, specifically? (Sorry if you've already been over it; I haven't been able to find it if so.)

[Farsight]

Fuck it.

Are you playing the DX9 version? The DX10 version balked on my system (ran but I couldn't click on anything), but the DX9 version has performed fine.

I'm not sure what kind of response you were expecting - your post is basically a tantrum. Bummer that it won't run, it makes me wonder what these three systems have in common for you to have a rare problem occur over and over...

[JayVe]

So, my new computer came in and Civ runs like a dream.

I run it at native resolution with every effect on (except FSAA) and the thing is beautiful.

So, I purchased Starcraft II naturally!

With the 360 dead, a gaming laptop seemed like a damn good investment. The thing is, it was only $50 more than tha laptop I got my daughter a few months ago for school.

$650 is a steal to be able to play Civ the way it was meant to be played.

[Narradisall]

$650 is a steal to be able to play Civ the way it was meant to be played.

Naked, Covered in cheetoes?

[Panthera]

With Sid Meier sensuously whispering game design aphorisms in your ear?

[Doogie2K]

Bought the game today, finally.

I still feel dirty every time I buy a disc then type the key into Steam or whatever and download it directly. I know I should be relishing my 21st century ways, but I can't help feeling I'm basically wasting a perfectly good disc. Especially since it has such nice art on it.

On the other hand, I have no compunction about rebuying games I own on disc because I'm too fucking lazy to put the disc in. Maybe because I've already used the disc to install it, I therefore feel vindicated?

Then again, I can't feel bad about 1.6 MB/s download speeds, especially after the shitshow that downloading Civ IV to tide myself over was a couple of weeks ago. (100 KB/s - took three hours to install the fucker.)

[MagGnome]

Why did you even buy a disc? At this point buying PC games on disc just seems wasteful to me.

[Exodus]

Gnome, we're human. A lot of the things we do are wasteful.

Anyways did you guys get the patch and does it fix the long term 'huge' map slow downs?

[Doogie2K]

Why did you even buy a disc? At this point buying PC games on disc just seems wasteful to me.

Because I had a $50 Future Shop gift card, and I wasn't going to use it for anything else. Also, because money's tight and using anything else would've seriously affected the budget.

[MagGnome]

Because I had a $50 Future Shop gift card, and I wasn't going to use it for anything else. Also, because money's tight and using anything else would've seriously affected the budget.

Fair enough.

[Clark]

Riflemen are melee units? Really?

[Farsight]

Compared to artillery, yes.

[Ink Asylum]

We had this discussion a few pages back. In the gunpowder era and beyond there's really no such thing as true melee fighters anymore. Your front lines become rows of guys with guns that fire a few rounds then start stabbing each other with bayonets.

[MagGnome]

It actually makes sense to me now after playing Fallout 3 and using the hunting rifle.

I've learned so much from video games. :p

[Vandabo]

The combat in Civ games has never really made much sense. Everything from the fact that it takes a unit thousands of years (in the early game) to travel to another city, to the scale of the battles (an archer can shoot about 50+ miles if the terrain size is to be believed) is pretty ludicrous, but it's still fun.

[Clark]

Compared to artillery, yes.

How about compared to archers?



I DO get it now. I should have gone back further to see if it was discussed. Still fun, just funky.

[J Arcane]

Artillery is indirect fire, melee are direct assault.

Think of it that way, and it all makes sense.

[Hotcod]

How about compared to archers?



I DO get it now. I should have gone back further to see if it was discussed. Still fun, just funky.

when archers where being used they where not front line troops. You had you melee on the line your archers behind. When you move to gunpowerder units they act on the front line unlike archers. Simple.

[Clark]

when archers where being used they where not front line troops. You had you melee on the line your archers behind. When you move to gunpowerder units they act on the front line unlike archers. Simple.

Like I said, I do get why they made them melee now. Gameplay wise, it makes sense. It's a game, not RL.

It was hard for me to accept this at first because the rifleman isn't always the front line with ranged behind him. When the situation is a rifleman on a hill "shooting" at a warrior with clubs, it seems like this is almost a pure ranged situation.

I DO accept it now.

"Artillery is indirect fire, melee are direct assault.

Think of it that way, and it all makes sense."

This helps.

[Hotcod]

well the point is that it makes perfect sense and I didn't skip a beat when it happened. You are confusing "range" for front line. A lot of the "front line" units in the game would in fact have range weapons they could and would use when charging but the game does not model that as "ranged" because they represent the front line of your forces. In your example the rifleman is at range but they are the front line of your forces. The fact the club men will be cut down when running up to that front line is represented by the fact they likely simply can't win that battle. Unless you can flank a front line you wouldn't be able to get at the real range units, either archers or artillery. When you move to gunpowered that front line becomes your range units who are vastly more effective againts melee.

I think what you have to realise is that riflemen if they where ranges unit could not "shot over" your own units like archers or such can. It's a straight line shot and you'd have to either have them at the front of the army or have your army move to the side... which both in real life and game would become stupid.

[Clark]

I think what you have to realise is that riflemen if they where ranges unit could not "shot over" your own units like archers or such can. It's a straight line shot and you'd have to either have them at the front of the army or have your army move to the side... which both in real life and game would become stupid.

You had me until right here. It sounds like you are equating what is going on with combat to RL combat. Or at least close to it. This scenario in RL would mean the melee unit rushes the riflemen, who are the frontline. The riflemen shoot some up and then hand-to-hand ensues. Good so far. But then the archers in the back shoot and hit the bad guy. This is suggesting that after the riflemen and melee units exchange blows, the melee unit steps back and eats arrows.

PLUS I 100% believe that if riflemen were behind macemen and enemy pikemen started heading their way, the macemen could drop to one knee to have the riflemen shoot at the incoming pikemen. (I remember a most wonderful scene from one of the Zulu movies where this took place.....)

I hope you don't think I'm being argumentative. I'm enjoying the conversation. It's hard to be sure that I'm not coming across as stubborn or combative when using the written word.

And just so I'm sure to say this with every post....I DO get why it is like it is.

[Ink Asylum]

PLUS I 100% believe that if riflemen were behind macemen and enemy pikemen started heading their way, the macemen could drop to one knee to have the riflemen shoot at the incoming pikemen. (I remember a most wonderful scene from one of the Zulu movies where this took place.....)

Due to the nature of rifles, especially early rifles, this would involve a lot of macemen getting shot in the back. Guns are simply not indirect fire weapons in the way archers and catapults are.

[Clark]

Due to the nature of rifles, especially early rifles, this would involve a lot of macemen getting shot in the back. Guns are simply not indirect fire weapons in the way archers and catapults are.

Suppose they stood 2 feet behind, with the rifle over the macemens' heads?

;)

[Doogie2K]

Suppose they stood 2 feet behind, with the rifle over the macemens' heads?

;)

Or used their shoulders as supports to steady their aim?

[MagGnome]

Suppose everyone realized how stupid war is and decided to hug it out instead?

[Clark]

Or used their shoulders as supports to steady their aim?

YES. YES.

Or...or.....went the MasterBlaster route with midgets holding the rifles and riding the backs of macemen!

[Hotcod]

You had me until right here. It sounds like you are equating what is going on with combat to RL combat. Or at least close to it. This scenario in RL would mean the melee unit rushes the riflemen, who are the frontline. The riflemen shoot some up and then hand-to-hand ensues. Good so far. But then the archers in the back shoot and hit the bad guy. This is suggesting that after the riflemen and melee units exchange blows, the melee unit steps back and eats arrows.

PLUS I 100% believe that if riflemen were behind macemen and enemy pikemen started heading their way, the macemen could drop to one knee to have the riflemen shoot at the incoming pikemen. (I remember a most wonderful scene from one of the Zulu movies where this took place.....)

I hope you don't think I'm being argumentative. I'm enjoying the conversation. It's hard to be sure that I'm not coming across as stubborn or combative when using the written word.

And just so I'm sure to say this with every post....I DO get why it is like it is.

Nah man i'm enjoying it too :)

But ya it's still clearly just a game system. You have archers blowing up cities from effectively miles away. At a given point the relation to RL quickly goes away. The point I was making is that the way it works makes perfect sense given how real life works and how the game systems attempt to simulate that.

The first problem you point out is a problem that exist with or with out rifle men, once melee fighters engage how the hell can archers or such then hit them with out hitting there own troops?

The second is also a problem that stems from the systems scale rather than how the rilfes are handled at the scale. And in fact you pretty much can do that, you just have to move your mace men out the way and move the rilfes up... which is effectively what is happening.

In the end the games battle system is based on having front line troops then ranged who can shoot over them. When you move to rilfes they are your front line troops, there's no line that the other side has to engage first. Is this perfectly modelled by the game, hell no, in fact the game modle is very very abstractly board game. Like the thing with the wonder its inspired by RL to provide a system with in the game... all i'm saying is that, to me at lest, how rilfes work in the game system makes sense in that system and has a relation to how things work in RL so it's not purely aburtery game design

[CES]

Suppose everyone realized how stupid war is and decided to hug it out instead?

Leave this place, hippie. Civ has no tolerance for your diplomatic ways.

Seriously, every time I go for a UN victory half the world declares war on me.

[Panthera]

I'm going to be the pedantic historical ass to point out that longbows and artillery fired way farther than muskets.

[Doogie2K]

So I'm a little bit confused by the Steam achievements to this point. I have the one for playing with a mod (I haven't), and "Seriously?!" for getting scooped on ten Wonders (I've only tried to build three, and have been successful every time, but my co-op partner has been scooped numerous times). Meanwhile, the easy-peasy ones for getting your second city, upgrading a unit, building a wonder, shit like that? Nuh-uh. Do those only unlock in SP? Or only for the "host"? If so, they should really say so. If not, why am I not getting any? By my count, I've earned nine by now. And why am I getting two that clearly I haven't earned?

[Libuke]

So I'm a little bit confused by the Steam achievements to this point. I have the one for playing with a mod (I haven't), and "Seriously?!" for getting scooped on ten Wonders (I've only tried to build three, and have been successful every time, but my co-op partner has been scooped numerous times). Meanwhile, the easy-peasy ones for getting your second city, upgrading a unit, building a wonder, shit like that? Nuh-uh. Do those only unlock in SP? Or only for the "host"? If so, they should really say so. If not, why am I not getting any? By my count, I've earned nine by now. And why am I getting two that clearly I haven't earned?

I think the beaten to 10 wonders one is bugged, as soon as the AI builds 10 wonders in the first game it gives it to you weather you were trying to build them or not. As me and my brother both got it in our first games and I dont' think we even tried to make 10 wonders either.

As for the other ones I am not sure.

[DoctorFinger]

Is anyone else having trouble since the new patch this morning? I'm getting runtime errors when I try to load a save.

[Panthera]

I wonder if it's related to the recent steam cloud problems.

[Daytime_Lantern]

I uninstalled this game after playing until 3AM for the second day in a row. 5 hours of sleep two nights in a row and now I'm having trouble focusing my eyes at work...

This game is the devil. But I would totally take it with me if I were ever to be trapped on a desert island. Even now I'm thinking about different strategies for different civilizations. Like, can I forget about culture as Washington and just buy all my tiles? That game I had with Russia was amazing... I wonder if I could pull it off again... If I'm Ceasar, will I have time to build wonders if I'm constantly building buildings so I can gain on the +x% production for my other cities?

ARRGGGHHH. Can't reinstall again! Mustn't reinstall again! Wait, there's a new patch?! Aw gawd!

[Telefrog]

The Babylon and Mongol DLC are live. Remember, Mongols are free for everyone.

[JayVe]

Does Steam automatically update with the Mongol DLC?

[Bad Buddha]

Does Steam automatically update with the Mongol DLC?
I started up a new game this morning before work as China. The first Civ that I encountered was Genghis Khan and the Mongols. Historically, not an auspicious occasion for the Chinese! :(

It appears to have updated overnight.

[Doogie2K]

So holy shit is multiplayer buggy past a certain point. My friend keeps crashing out, even though his GPU and CPU are both well within temperature limits, are relatively up to date (I think he has a Core 2 Quad and a 5750, respectively), and he doesn't have anything absurd running in the background. It's made it very difficult to keep the game going, which is too bad, because I've steamrolled four Civs as China and own probably about 40% of the world's landmass right now, and I'm enjoying learning the late-game units.

[MagGnome]

I'm surprised at how quickly this thread died out. I realize it went on for 20 (or more/fewer) pages, but I haven't seen many people playing this on my Steam list anymore either.

[JayVe]

Civ is great, but it takes a special kind of mood for me to play. I have to have huge chunks of time to get into a game.

I've got a mini lan-party this weekend. Lemmie see if I can get some people into a game of Civ.

[Ink Asylum]

My new laptop runs the game great, so I have a lot more impetus to play, but other things are taking up much of my time and Civ isn't the type of game you hop into for a half hour at a time. I'll definitely be starting up a game in early December after NaNoWriMo is over.

[ShivaX]

I'm surprised at how quickly this thread died out. I realize it went on for 20 (or more/fewer) pages, but I haven't seen many people playing this on my Steam list anymore either.

Honestly, I stopped playing myself because the combat AI is just too broken.

I love the game, but I don't love that I'm basically assured a win on the even settings - a feat that I never accomplished in any other Civ game reliably. In Civ5 the only way I'll lose is if I play King or higher on a Pangea map and I don't want to play that way.

I just keep hoping the AI gets to where its fun and plays smart. I loved getting my ass kicked in Civ4 on the equal footing difficulty. I handily won my first game in Civ5 on that difficulty. When I can send 3-4 units and conquer an entire civilization that as big, or bigger than me, somethings pretty borked.

[MagGnome]

I will agree that things seem a little easy at this point. I've seen the AI do some really stupid things. Have they released any patches yet?

I know it's totally off-topic, but they really need to patch the AI in Magic: The Gather on Steam as well. They do really stupid things all the time. I've learned to exploit their stupidity, but it takes some of the challenge out of the game.

[Troggles]

The last patch seemed to improve the AI quite a bit. They seem to keep up with tech now and I've seen them actually use mounted forces.

[SilentScreams]

I like the game, but it's just missing that certain something that has gotten me hooked on all of the other Civ games. It feels really dumbed down to me, which probably isn't helping. It's pretty much My First Civ™.

[J Arcane]

Yeah. I expected Civ5 to destroy my life, and instead I played a few games and then promptly quit.

I found this really awesome Azeroth map (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=389792) a few days back and tried to play it, but I found myself just getting bored and not really caring to continue.

I think I'll pick it up again at the next expansion maybe.

[SilentScreams]

Well all of the expansions for Civ IV were pretty awesome, so I have high hopes for whatever they put out for Civ V. I think it's probably going to take an expansion to get me playing again too.

[Vigil80]

I don't buy the My First Civ bit, but I haven't had the drive to take up a marathon Civ match lately. Plus, New Vegas came out. :) I've kind of been waiting for the next patch changes to diplomacy, anyway. I'm sure all it will take is that and/or a slow weekend afternoon to get me back in it.

[Ink Asylum]

Playing Civ V right now reminds me of when The Sims 3 came out. Going from one entry in a series that had a load of patches and expansions to one without them seems like a large step back, even with the core improvements. Hopefully Civ V will be greatly improved to the point where it's comparable in variety and fun with Civ IV.

[MagGnome]

I like the game, but it's just missing that certain something that has gotten me hooked on all of the other Civ games. It feels really dumbed down to me, which probably isn't helping. It's pretty much My First Civ™.

It's strange. I'm usually one of the first people to complain when a game is "dumbed down", but I like how accessible Civilization V is compared to prior entries in the series, especially Civ IV. That's probably because I'm fairly terrible at Civ IV, and I've never fully understood some of the features in that game, especially the religions and corporations, both of which felt kind of pointless, IMHO.

I do agree that they probably went too far in cutting features, although the revamped combat system is such a huge improvement over previous Civ games that I don't think I'll ever go back.

[shunoshi]

Sooooooooooo, does Civ 5 have a "play-by-email" system like Civ 4? Pitboss (or preferably something better...)? If so, doesn't anyone plan on getting a CoG game going?

I'd love to play a game like this, but only with a group that's willing to make at least two moves per day.

[Panthera]

Civ V pitboss isn't out yet, but I'll probably host a server when it is. (What exactly would be better than pitboss?)

[MagGnome]

I don't know if I would do another one of these Civ games online. The Civ IV game is going on FOREVER, and I really don't see myself having the patience to do the same with a new game.

[Panthera]

I don't know if I would do another one of these Civ games online. The Civ IV game is going on FOREVER, and I really don't see myself having the patience to do the same with a new game.

I'm kinda confused why people are surprised by how long one-turn-per-day would take for a game hundreds of turns long. It's not exactly hard math.

On the other hand, if you wanted to speed things up, I have an easy solution for you. ;)

[MagGnome]

I'm kinda confused why people are surprised by how long one-turn-per-day would take for a game hundreds of turns long. It's not exactly hard math.

On the other hand, if you wanted to speed things up, I have an easy solution for you. ;)

Very funny. :p

My citizens all hate me anyway. I've never understood happiness in Civ IV.

[Ink Asylum]

You can get a complete breakdown of what's making your citizens unhappy by hovering over the happiness meter. You probably expanded or let your population grow too quickly without balancing it out with luxury goods and happiness buildings.

[Panthera]

Hm, yeah, if you're that unclear about how the game works then I can see why that wouldn't be at all fun. I've been really enjoying this game, but then I have a good deal to do each turn making sure everything is working towards the same purpose.

[MagGnome]

You can get a complete breakdown of what's making your citizens unhappy by hovering over the happiness meter. You probably expanded or let your population grow too quickly without balancing it out with luxury goods and happiness buildings.

I had to expand quickly, since I'm stuck on a tiny island with a certain Pokemon. :p


Hm, yeah, if you're that unclear about how the game works then I can see why that wouldn't be at all fun. I've been really enjoying this game, but then I have a good deal to do each turn making sure everything is working towards the same purpose.

For some reason Civ IV has never quite clicked with me the same way that Civ III and now Civ V did. It's probably because I've spent a lot less time with IV. This COG game has helped, but I've certainly run into some issues.

I probably shouldn't tell you any more, seeing as how we are neighbors and all. :p

[Panthera]

I gotta say, those borders really are close, and if I want to keep up with the continent-conquering Joneses...

[MagGnome]

You promised. :(

[shunoshi]

Civ V pitboss isn't out yet, but I'll probably host a server when it is. (What exactly would be better than pitboss?)

A program that actually allows me to host a server (unlike Civ IV Pitboss). :p


I'll be looking forward to this coming out though. I thoroughly enjoy Civ V. It's simplified, but not too simplified (i.e. CivRev). I still like the "one turn per 12 hours" setup though.

[MagGnome]

I miss that other Civ IV game. I was kicking ass. :D

[Doogie2K]

Patch day; everybody get happy.

Updates to Sid Meier's Civilization® V have been released. The updates will be applied automatically when your Steam client is restarted. The major changes include:

[AI]

[TACTICAL AI]
- Proper evaluation of which enemy units can reach my units next turn.
- Sorting enemy targets (within a class) by damage.
- Combine bombardment fire from cities with other ranged fire where possible.
- Never target a city for a ranged attack when they are already at (or going to be at) 1 health.
- Have the tactical AI be more aggressive about fortifying units that aren't moving anyways.
- Make all forms of guarding improvements the lowest priority tactical AI moves.
- Don't mark tiles adjacent to enemy at sea as good for flank attacks -- there is no flanking at sea.
- Update to tactical AI pillaging code - now prioritize enemy land resources and trade routes (never regular mines or farms). Always uses the check to make sure AI is not trying to pillage in an enemy dominance zone. Barbarians will still target everything.
- Never use ranged units to provide flank bonuses.
- Reduce chance of AI civs making "suicide" attacks.
- Changes to better protect the capital or any city with an enemy within 5 tiles.

[VICTORY]
- AI will be more aggressive about pursuing Diplo victory (bribing City States) if they are wealthy.
- AI will be more aggressive about building Spaceship parts when going for Science victory.

[CIVS]
- Tweak a few leader settings to be more likely to use their traits.
- Adjust Napoleon to make more likely to go for culture.

[COMBAT/UNITS]
- AI will not use Horse as defenders on hills as much.
- AI will often build more defensive troops.
- AI will more aggressively hunt barbs in the early game.
- Slightly more naval units.
- AI will now build ranged and mobile units more in line with the flavor settings for the team - in general, this means more mobile units.
- AI now builds, deploys, and uses air units more effectively.
- Allow AI to build more units if above Prince.
- AI will be more likely to build and bring siege units in a city attack.
- Better nuke targeting by AI.
- Won't build AA if no air threat.
- Allow AI or automated human explorers to move to edge of sight range and then explore again.

[EXPLORATION/EXPANSION]
- AI will emphasize getting an Ocean going explorer unit when the time comes.
- AI slightly more likely to settle off home continent.
- AI should colonize other continents regularly.
- AI second wave expansion more aggressive.
- Improve the AI's chances of setting up protected bombard attacks.
- Settlers: should handle watery maps better.
- AI will grab goody huts on other land masses.
- AI will grab empty barb camps more often.

[WORKERS/CITY AI]
- Large Cities should be more willing to build happiness and gold buildings.
- Workers prioritize repair builds higher than other builds.
- AI will be more likely to build a wall on any city that was an original capital.
- Builder tasking now calculates yields appropriately during golden ages and weighs tiles according to how much stuff they provide overall as well as their maximum yield of a certain type.
- More likely to build up economy early.
- Multiple worker AI improvements.

[MISC]
- Factor GS into flavors more.
- Disband obsolete units even if not losing money.
- Upgrade units a bit more.
- Tweak flavors of policies a bit.
- Have AI factor Grand Strategy into picking policies.
- AI will factor grand strategy into tech choices a bit more.
- AI don't send a barb expedition if defenses are critical.
- AI less likely to pick a city on an inland sea for serious naval production.
- Additional pathfinder optimization.

[GAMEPLAY]

[CITY/BUILDINGS]
- Added "National Treasury" national wonder, which requires Markets in all cities. Provides +8 Gold per turn to the city in which it's built.
- Added "Circus Maximus" national wonder, which requires Colosseums in all cities.. Provides 5 Happiness.
- Library now has no specialist slots.
- Wat now has two specialist slots.
- Public school now has 1 Science per pop, +1 free Great Scientist point, +1 Culture for 3 gold maintenance.
- Observatory now has 1 specialist slot.
- Research Lab has two specialist slots.
- Public school now provides 1 beaker per pop for 3 gold maintenance.
- Watermill now provides +2 good and +1 production for 2 gold maintenance.
- Paper Maker now has no specialist slots.
- Circus now has +2 happiness and no maintenance.
- Theatre now has +5 happiness.
- Stadium now has +5 happiness.
- Reduced production cost and maintenance for the Courthouse.
- Courthouse can now be purchased in a city (although it is expensive).
- Removed maintenance from city defense buildings (Walls, Castle, Military Base).
- City defense buildings now help cities heal.
- Increased city strength ramp-up based on technology.
- Reduced effects of Forbidden Palace and Meritocracy (Happiness per city).
- Reduced amount of food needed for cities to grow at larger sizes.
- Buildings can now no longer provide more Happiness than there is population in a city (wonders are excluded from this).
- Ironworks now gives 10 hammers instead of a % bonus.
- National College now gives +5 science in addition to the % bonus.
- Hermitage gives 5 culture in addition to its previous bonus.
- Raze/Unraze exploit fixed.
- Cities being razed are unhappy about it (only during the razing process).
- Cities heal more quickly.

[UNITS/PROMOTIONS]
- Cavalry can now go obsolete with Combustion.
- Stealth bombers cannot use carriers.
- Only allow one upgrade per unit from a goody hut.
- Add second embarkation promotion ("Defensive Embarkation").
- Amount of damage done during naval combat increased.
- All melee horse units get penalty attacking cities.
- Increased city attack penalty for mounted and armor units to 50% (from 40%).
- Lancers (and Lancer UUs) upgrade to helicopter.
- Lowered combat value of Horseman and Companion Cavalry.
- Promotions must be picked the turn they're earned.
- Can no longer promote a unit that has fought during the turn (instead, the promotion comes up the beginning of the following turn).
- Catapults and Trebuchets now weaker against units but stronger VS cities.
- Reduced effectiveness of Archers & Crossbowmen (and their UUs) VS cities.
- Reduced some combat bonuses: flanking (15 to 10), Great Generals (25 to 20), Discipline (15 to 10), Military Tradition (2x to 1.5x).
- Remove requirement for aluminum on Mobile SAM.
- Lower open terrain penalty to 10% .
- Marsh is now 3 moves to enter (Chariots do not move quickly through it anymore).
- Cavalry now upgrade to tanks.

[CITY STATES]
- Reduced bonuses from Maritime city-states - Friends: +2 food in capital, +0 food in other cities - Allies: +3 food in capital, +1 food in other cities
- Only the first 3 units gifted to a city-state will earn Influence now.
- Killing a barb inside a city-state's territory now gives a 5-turn buffer where there is no Influence intrusion penalty.

[HAPPINESS]
- If an empire reaches -20 Happiness, it goes into revolt, and rebels start appearing throughout the empire, based on the number of cities.
- Amount of Happiness needed to trigger a Golden Age reduced.
- Amount of Happiness needed to trigger a Golden Age now increases as the number of cities in the empire goes up.

[POLICIES]
- Landed Elite (Tradition Branch) now reduces culture cost of border growth by 2/3.
- Monarchy (Tradition Branch) now provides +1 Gold per 2 pop in the Capital..
- Liberty now provides a Settler training bonus to only the capital, and not every city.
- Tradition now provides +50% growth in the capital.
- Theocracy now reduces Unhappiness by 25% .
- Reformation now gives a 10-turn GA.
- Adopting Rationalism now gives a 4-turn GA.

[TECH TREE]
- Add link between Military Science and Dynamite.
- Add link between Civil Service and Education.
- Add link between Economics and Scientific Theory.
- Add link between Chivalry and Acoustics.
- Research overflow now works correctly (extra beakers after completing a tech will rollover to the next tech).

[GENERAL]
- Fixed bug where clicking on a city plot wouldn't select the garrison.
- Natural wonders now award culture (if worked) and happiness (if in border) if that trait is assigned to a wonder in XML.
- Players must now always adopt Policies immediately, and cannot defer picking until later.
- Have culture cost for policies never go down (trading away cities to reduce culture cost exploit). Razing cities will not raise your policy cost ceiling.
- Reduced culture needed for first plot acquisition from 20 to 15.
- 3 new Natural Wonders and rarity code for both base game and New World scenario.
- Reduced points from Wonders (40 to 25) & Cities (10 to 8), increased points for pop by 1 (3 to 4).

[DIPLOMACY]
- AI's attitude towards you is now visible in the diplo screen and diplo drop-down.
- Added info tooltip for an AI leader's mood. Lists things that are making an AI player happy/upset.
- New diplo system: Declaration of Friendship (public declaration with diplomatic repercussions).
- New diplo system: Denounce (public declaration with diplomatic repercussions).
- New custom leader responses (Serious Expansion Warning, Aggressive Military, Luxury Exchange, Borders Exchange, Gift Request, etc.).
- Not agreeing to a friend's request now results in a relations hit.
- Third party AIs can now respond when a player makes a DoF or denounces someone. What they say is based on the situation - e.g. if you make friends with someone they don't like, they'll scold you.
- AI leaders will now sometimes ask their friends to denounce one of their enemies as a show of support, and refusing to denounce someone when an AI asks can now make them very upset.
- AI is now capable of denouncing friends (aka, backstabbing) and added backstabbing info to diplo overview screen.

[UI]
- Add XP bar for air units, do not allow XP for air units attacking a city that is already down to its last hit-point.
- Change ActivePlayer's name to "You" in single player in score list.
- Added game option to disable automated workers from removing features.
- Fixed bug where Happiness from garrisoned units wasn't being listed in Happiness info tooltip.
- Load Map function will now display correct size and type of saved map.
- New "Angry Genghis" loading screen (replaces the "fluffy-bunny Genghis" loading screen).
- Added setup options to allow players to defer choosing Policies and Promotions right away.
- Show the river penalty when attacking city across river (the penalty was there but was not being shown in the preview).
- Global politics screen updated to reflect new diplo system.
- Can no longer Force End Turn (shift-enter) through blocking notifications. CAN now use it to skip over units which need orders.
- Multiple tweaks and bug fixes.

[MISC]
- Fix small bugs with adding long roads around existing features.
- Fixed bombard arrow across world wrap.

[MODDING]
- Parent category counts now include counts of child categories.
- Selecting/deselecting a category now automatically selects/deselects it's children and its parent.
- Tweaked category name truncation to better fit names.
- Hide categories w/ no children and a count of 0.
- Added support for fallback languages (if mod is not translated, fall-back to English so text keys are not showing).
- The pager for the installed mods tab of the mods browser is now displayed in the correct location.
- Long values for properties such as "Special Thanks" will no longer extend past the edge browser frame.
- Categories refresh much faster now in the mods browser.
- Multiple additional tweaks and fixes to the mod browser.
- Support for mods that perform major restructuring of the tech tree including adding, deleting, and updating techs, buildings, and units.
- Added GameEvents system for overriding Gameplay DLL specific functionality.
- Fixed "Reload Landmark System" mod flag to now refresh landmarks defined in "ArtDefine_Landmarks".
- Multiple SDK updates (new version to go live shortly).

[SERIALIZATION/SAVES]
- Fixed save format which causes saves to increase the memory footprint of the game drastically when loading frequently over the course of the game. This heightened the risk of late-game out of memory crashes significantly.

Quite a few things that made me happy here, not the least of which is finally actually knowing why the bloody hell Gandhi attacked me 50 turns into my last game.

[Stoke]

Patch day; everybody get happy.



Quite a few things that made me happy here, not the least of which is finally actually knowing why the bloody hell Gandhi attacked me 50 turns into my last game.

I think Gandhi just got tired of your bullshit. ;)

I'm happy about the patch as well. It looks like the AI should be much more capable from now on.

[SilentScreams]

Time to test this out.

[MagGnome]

A lot of GREAT fixes in there. In addition to the much-needed AI improvements, I love that you can now buy a courthouse, while will help a lot even in the price is high.

I also like that Calvary can now upgrade to tanks. Before I would just end up disbanding them later in the game, as running around with horses felt ridiculous when I was wielding fighters and infantry.

Oh, and this:

- Added game option to disable automated workers from removing features.

Hooray! Now my forts will remain intact! :D

I was going to fire up Tropico 3 tonight, but I'll be playing this instead. This patch changed a lot!

The only thing I would've liked to see was a comprehensive list of luxuries/resources I have, how many I am trading to whom, etc.

[Doogie2K]

I think Gandhi just got tired of your bullshit. ;)

I'm happy about the patch as well. It looks like the AI should be much more capable from now on.

I didn't know moving a scout around his borders was bullshit, though I can see how that would be taken as aggressive. ;)

A lot of GREAT fixes in there. In addition to the much-needed AI improvements, I love that you can now buy a courthouse, while will help a lot even in the price is high.

I also like that Calvary can now upgrade to tanks. Before I would just end up disbanding them later in the game, as running around with horses felt ridiculous when I was wielding fighters and infantry.

I like both of these things, but man, getting rid of maintenance on defensive buildings is great. With the economic problems I sometimes have, it's nice not to be deincentivized to defend myself quite so much.

I've never gotten down below -10 Happiness. I wonder what those revolts would even look like...

[Doogie2K]

Huh. I'm not getting the happiness bonus for trade routes I was supposed to (Meritocracy). I know it was supposed to drop from +1 Happiness/city to +0.5 Happiness/city, but I'm getting bupkis.

[Panthera]

I totally forgot that my pre-order earned me the first Civ V DLC. Problem is, it seems to crash whenever I try to create a New World scenario. Meh.

[JayK47]

So why can't I save a multiplayer match? That really takes this game down several notches. Essentially multi is broken.

[Doogie2K]

Hit Ctrl-S. I believe that's how my friend saves our MP games. You then have to move it into the autosave directory in order to load it back up again, which is really monumentally stupid, but there you go.

Really a glaring oversight that I don't understand.

[Wraith]

Details on a great big patch (http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2011/02/18/hex-tras-civ-v-balance-patch-incoming/) coming soon. (Aqueducts are back.)

[MagGnome]

The game is also on sale on Steam for 40% off, making it $30.

[Abyssion]

It's also here (http://www.greenmangaming.com/games/sid-meiers-civilization-v/) for $20 for the next 5-6 hours.

[MagGnome]

I'm reading through the notes for the new patch, and this one in particular made me laugh:

Removed the Great Person Point from Public School

Is Firaxis trying to tell us something? ;)

[Panthera]

And Civ IV is available for $7.50, which has the small advantage of being a good game.

http://store.steampowered.com/sub/4323/

[MagGnome]

Yes, Civ V is just terrible. :p

[Panthera]

I exaggerate, but I really wish it was better. I love love love the idea of hexes and tactical combat, but I've started to come to the conclusion that I'm just not having any fun with it. The implementation was really not very good, and I don't think this is something that a few patches can fix.

[biosc1]

I exaggerate, but I really wish it was better. I love love love the idea of hexes and tactical combat, but I've started to come to the conclusion that I'm just not having any fun with it. The implementation was really not very good, and I don't think this is something that a few patches can fix.

You might just have to give Civ 5 a bit more time. Civ 4 was decent when it was first released...then came the inevitable patches. I had a ton of fun with the game, but it didn't really hit its potential until Beyond the Sword came out...it was an old game that was refined over time to become the game it is.

Civ 5 will either be a great game in time, or it will be comparable to Civ 3 when Civ 6 comes out.

Civ 2 was a refined Civ 1. Civ 4 was a refined Civ 3...Civ 6 may be a refined Civ 5.

Jeesh...sounds almost like the Star Trek movies...

[Panthera]

You might just have to give Civ 5 a bit more time. Civ 4 was decent when it was first released...then came the inevitable patches. I had a ton of fun with the game, but it didn't really hit its potential until Beyond the Sword came out...it was an old game that was refined over time to become the game it is.

Civ 5 will either be a great game in time, or it will be comparable to Civ 3 when Civ 6 comes out.

Civ 2 was a refined Civ 1. Civ 4 was a refined Civ 3...Civ 6 may be a refined Civ 5.

Jeesh...sounds almost like the Star Trek movies...

CIV was improved with patches and expansions, but I don't think the core gameplay systems ever felt quite as broken. I had fun with it without any expansions at all. I can live with bugs, it's poor design that I'm not sold on, and I doubt they'll be fixing the base design Elemental-style.

I could be proven wrong, of course. I want it to become a better game. Regardless, I can't recommend it right now.

[MagGnome]

I think that the core game is excellent.

In fact, I actually prefer it over Civilization IV by a long shot. For some reason I could never get into Civ IV. Perhaps I'm crazy, but I love Civ V.

[SilentScreams]

Nope. I can't go back to Civ IV after playing Civ V. It's better in almost every way, and I adored Civ IV.

The only reason I have to load up IV now is for Fall From Heaven, and even then I can't help but think how much more badass the mod would be in Civ V.

[ShivaX]

The systems aren't the problem in Civ5 so much as the AI which has no idea how to play with said systems.

[Wraith]

Looks like the patch is out.

[Wraith]

Hit 101 hours played, after shutting down tonight.

[Stoke]

101? You have the game speed set on "quick" or something? :p

[Xydarc]

I picked up the Deluxe edition from the recent Steam sale, and I'm really enjoying the game. I also bought the Korean DLC. Holy crap, if you want a Science Victory, go Korean.