Interesting Read on Fallout 3

[walkstheplanes]

http://www.brainygamer.com/the_brainy_gamer/2008/10/fallout-3.html

My students have been playing Fallout 1 and 2 for a couple of weeks, preparing for the release of Fallout 3. They are an unexpected mix of gamers: a small handful of RPG veterans, a large majority of relatively casual gamers (mostly sports games and shooters), and a few with almost no experience playing video games at all. Quite a challenge for a teacher who expected to be met by a small legion of hardcore D&Ders with a possible cosplayer or LARPer thrown in. Fortunately, they're all terrific guys willing to try anything I throw at them.

So when I handed them Fallout (half played the original, half the sequel) with no instructions or special preparation, they struggled. A lot. They had the original manuals, but almost nobody read them. After exiting the vault, they had no idea where to go or what to do. Their movements were limited for no apparent reason; "action points" made no sense; and they died within minutes nearly everywhere they went.

I encourage you to read on. This quoted text is only meant to put things in context as the author's students' initial impressions of the original Fallouts.

Here's another blog linked in the article. Another perspective on the game:
http://versusclucluland.blogspot.com/2008/10/leaving-vault-means-you-probably-ar.html

[J Arcane]

You know, I suppose in the end the story's supposed to be encouraging, but the initial reactions, and some of the comments to the article, just made me realize how fucking stupid and spoonfed gamers are these days.

Fallout really isn't that fucking hard to figure out. When I played it I had no manual, no instructions, nothing, and I still managed to get through just fine.

[walkstheplanes]

True, but the industry has been trying to bring in people who aren't inclined to know trends in gameplay mechanics (whereas we have been trained to look for these patterns).

[sparkfizt]

fallout 1/2 is a decidedly old style game. Games back then were far less carebear and far harder to get into. I'll read the article when I get home, but I have no doubt fallout 1/2 would bewilder someone who never played those kinds of games before.

[ClannerDelta]

Fallout really isn't that fucking hard to figure out. When I played it I had no manual, no instructions, nothing, and I still managed to get through just fine.

I recently played Fallout 2 for the first time and it was just obnoxious in how clunky it was.

The fact is, we've moved on. It's not that they are "stupid and spoonfed". It's just things like interface, game mechanics, tool tips, and in-game tutorials have made the unrefined games of old show their age. Things evolve and progress. It's a wonderful thing.

Being complicated just for the sake of being complicated isn't necessarily a virtue. It would be like new novels being printed in Old English. Why?

[Shieldmaiden]

Having recently played the original (I played Fallout 2 years ago) I was amazed by how much easier it was to get started in it compared to the sequel. By the time you've explored the other Vault, you have armour, a decent weapon and some other useful stuff. Fallout 2, on the other hand, is a pain the arse.

[J Arcane]

Having recently played the original (I played Fallout 2 years ago) I was amazed by how much easier it was to get started in it compared to the sequel. By the time you've explored the other Vault, you have armour, a decent weapon and some other useful stuff. Fallout 2, on the other hand, is a pain the arse.
Yeah, the beginning of FO2 is really tough to get started in, and that stupid temple thing is retarded and really should've been left out entirely.

[VerseD]

Really cool article. It's kind of cool how the experience playing Fallout is universally awesome. I really hope the folks at Bethesda have the same love of those games and imparted at least some of it into Oblivion With Guns.

[Squidbot]

Do not expect the same from 3.

[jpublic]

Do not expect the same from 3.

What, for it to be awesome? I trust Bethesda, my friend.

[Squidbot]

Oh, it's awesome alright.

[Bingley Joe]

Great article, thanks for sharing!

Reading that totally reminded me how much I absolutely devoured and loved every minute of the first two games.

Unfortunately after having devoured every minute of gameplay footage and info I could find from 3, I'm just not feeling it. At this point, I'm giving it a total pass.

[QueQueg]

Being complicated just for the sake of being complicated isn't necessarily a virtue. It would be like new novels being printed in Old English. Why?

I'm looking at you, Eve Online.

[J Arcane]

I recently played Fallout 2 for the first time and it was just obnoxious in how clunky it was.

The fact is, we've moved on. It's not that they are "stupid and spoonfed". It's just things like interface, game mechanics, tool tips, and in-game tutorials have made the unrefined games of old show their age. Things evolve and progress. It's a wonderful thing.

Being complicated just for the sake of being complicated isn't necessarily a virtue. It would be like new novels being printed in Old English. Why?
Since when the hell is Fallout "complicated for the sake of complicated"?

It's not like we're talking about fucking Battlecruiser or Microsoft Flight Simulator here.

It's a point and click interface. It doesn't even really use the keyboard for anything except the quicksave/load keys. The only thing I ever had a hard time figuring out in FO was run, and not only was there an option you could turn on to just make the guy always run, but FO2 actually made it simpler.

Just grabbing a random example out of sigs in this thread, what the fuck is anymore complicated in Fallout than say, KOTOR? Because I sure as shit can't think of anything. In fact I think the inventory/menu system in KOTOR is probably a good deal more complicated than FO1/2.

[Stoke]

I'm reading the article now, but is anyone else having trouble with the context here? Neither the author nor the OP give any indication of who this guy is and how has has a random group of people playing the original Fallouts. Is this some kind of college class?

[Squidbot]

Aye, i was wondering the same myself. Nobody ever made me play Fallout at college. I had to teach myself.

[pomeroy]

http://home.arcor.de/geekomm/Bilder/scrubs%20(30).jpg

"Sweetheart, I think you're confusing interesting with boring."

[OrangePulp]

I'm reading the article now, but is anyone else having trouble with the context here? Neither the author nor the OP give any indication of who this guy is and how has has a random group of people playing the original Fallouts. Is this some kind of college class?

My assumption was that it was some form of high school/college class.

[Shieldmaiden]

Since when the hell is Fallout "complicated for the sake of complicated"?

It's not like we're talking about fucking Battlecruiser or Microsoft Flight Simulator here.

It's a point and click interface. It doesn't even really use the keyboard for anything except the quicksave/load keys. The only thing I ever had a hard time figuring out in FO was run, and not only was there an option you could turn on to just make the guy always run, but FO2 actually made it simpler.

Just grabbing a random example out of sigs in this thread, what the fuck is anymore complicated in Fallout than say, KOTOR? Because I sure as shit can't think of anything. In fact I think the inventory/menu system in KOTOR is probably a good deal more complicated than FO1/2.

Dude, don't you remember the abandoned Vault in Fallout? You had to examine the lift shaft to find out that a rope might help you to get down it. Then you had to actually find someone with a rope. They don't even have "I have rope, noobzor!" flashing above their head or anything.

[Harv]

Getting hung up on the game mechanics of Fallout points to a failure of something. It's just not that hard.

[Mr. Murphy]

Getting hung up on the game mechanics of Fallout points to a failure of something. It's just not that hard.

As someone pointed out, it's not hard for us because we've been trained to look for certain gameplay patterns. To a relative newcomer to games, Fallout takes quite a while to learn.

I had my girlfriend play it, and was often surprised by how she simply didn't recognize which objects were important and which weren't - because she had no context. For example, she read that a well was broken, and spent an hour running around town and trying different things to fix it - never realizing that it was just there for flavor and decoration. When I found that well, I tried the repair skill on it once, and I could tell from the "you can't do that" message that it was just a decoration. When she tried the repair skill and it didn't work, she simply assumed there was some other way to fix it. She couldn't tell the difference between an important item and an insignificant one because she had no experience with video games. In that regard, Fallout has a steep learning curve - but once she learned it, she was able to tackle other games with much less difficulty.

[Young Al Capone]

Fallout is difficult for todays gamers, but like the author said, once you get it it usually clicks and provides an experience unlike anything else. There is no hand holding, and the world is really well realized.

Once you realize that you need to provide your own focus it becomes a lot easier, because the game never really explicitly tells you what to do next. They tell you your goal, but almost never how to complete that goal. You need to figure out how you are going to go about completeing that goal.

Recognizing that you aren't always going to be able to win a fight, and sometimes you are going to need to run to save your life makes a big difference. As does recognizing that you cannot be everything to everyone, sometimes you are going to have to ignore someone to do something for someone else, and sometimes events will create a situation where you are unable to complete your goal.

This is roleplaying at its finest, with real consequences and a very well realized world.

[Telefrog]

Just grabbing a random example out of sigs in this thread, what the fuck is anymore complicated in Fallout than say, KOTOR? Because I sure as shit can't think of anything. In fact I think the inventory/menu system in KOTOR is probably a good deal more complicated than FO1/2.

And there is a reason KOTOR is almost completely unknown outside of RPG circles. Even with the Star Wars IP, KOTOR didn't successfully bring in a bunch of "new" gamers. It got great press and good sales, but it wasn't like a Mario game or something that encourages a new audience to try it out.

I love KOTOR, as much as other core gamers, but watching my wife try to play it reminded me how obfuscating most RPG mechanics are in games to people that didn't grow up on a steady diet of rolling d20's or searching for keycards all the time.

On the flipside, Oblivion has only recently been supplanted by Fable II as a favorite of hers precisely because they are both pretty easy to get into as a newb.