Widescreen TVs

[TheKeck]

Am I missing something?

OK, so I have one of them fancy widescreen HD tvs. I'm sure this is the case for most of you. Here's my beef... all DVDs are still formatted for normal SD tvs. Right? That's what I'm seeing anyway.

Now, my TV has a nice feature, (which all may have? I don't know), where you can go into "zoom view". This simply "stretches" the image vertically so the proper aspect ratio is preserved on the widescreen. If the movie in question is letter box, then you are golden, because the stuff that goes off screen is just black bar. Basically perfect.

BUT... the first issue is that the DVD menus are still usually not set up to handle this. Very often, the options on the menu are at the very top or bottom, causing them to be unviewable in zoom view/widescreen mode, whatever you want to call it. I can live with this. You don't use the menu that much, and it's easy enough to switch to stretch or sidebar mode for a second to start the movie. Still annoying.

Now here's the kicker... SUBTITLES! These shmucks think that the black bar beneath their movie is a great place to put subtitles. Well now I'm screwed, because I've happily removed that bloody black bar. So now, I'm forced to watch subtitled movies in a stupid little box in the middle of my screen or in wide stretchovision. Graaaaaah!

So, has anybody else dealt with this? AM I missing something on how to make this all work better? Can I get an amen?

[civil]

No advice, but welcome back.

From what I gather, another Little Keck is now with us?

[DoctorFinger]

Check the settings on your DVD player. If the player is set properly then you shouldn't be having any of these problems. Because almost no DVDs are formatted for 4:3 TVs anymore.

[TheKeck]

No advice, but welcome back.

From what I gather, another Little Keck is now with us?
Heh, thanks. This is true.

http://www.dndonlinegames.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=39429&d=1265645343

[TheKeck]

Check the settings on your DVD player. If the player is set properly then you shouldn't be having any of these problems. Because almost no DVDs are formatted for 4:3 TVs anymore.
Hmmmmm... really? Our DVD player is pretty old. I'll have to check it out.

And, of course, when I say "formatted for 4:3 tvs", I mean, it is letterboxed in such a way that it will look right on a 4:3 tv, even though the movie is obviously widescreen because of the letterbox.

[GigaFuzz]

Your widescreen TV will have a 16:9 aspect ratio. Most movies these days use a wider aspect ratio than that, so on a TV, they will still be letterboxed. Most TV shows these days use a 16:9 aspect ratio, so they should take up the whole screen by default. Older TV shows will use a 4:3 aspect ratio (the same as non-widescreen TVs), so if you're watching those properly, they'll be pillar-boxed (black bars on left and right).

If you use zoom, you're going to lose part of the picture from the left and right sides, and as you've seen, anything in the top and bottom black bars. The standard way to view wider-than-widescreen stuff is to just leave it letterboxed.

[civil]

Mormon to the core! ;)

Congrats.

[CappinCanuck]

Your widescreen TV will have a 16:9 aspect ratio. Most movies these days use a wider aspect ratio than that, so on a TV, they will still be letterboxed. Most TV shows these days use a 16:9 aspect ratio, so they should take up the whole screen by default. Older TV shows will use a 4:3 aspect ratio (the same as non-widescreen TVs), so if you're watching those properly, they'll be pillar-boxed (black bars on left and right).

If you use zoom, you're going to lose part of the picture from the left and right sides, and as you've seen, anything in the top and bottom black bars. The standard way to view wider-than-widescreen stuff is to just leave it letterboxed.

Yeah, exactly. Don't use zoom. That actually isn't meant to be used for 4:3. The only time I know people use zoom, aside from zooming in to see something, is in the first 100-200 hours of a plasma; where you want to cover the whole screen so you don't burn-in any black edges. There has to be another option. On my panasonic tv, the mode is actually called 4:3. If you really want the correct aspect ratio, as Giga said, you'll have to deal with the pillar boxes.

[TheKeck]

No, zoom view gives me the proper aspect ratio, I assure you. It doesn't cut off anything on the sides (except the pillar boxes, I guess you could say.)

[TheKeck]

Your widescreen TV will have a 16:9 aspect ratio. Yes Most movies these days use a wider aspect ratio than that, so on a TV, they will still be letterboxed. Yes, even in zoom view, most movies still have some letterboxing, depending on their exact ratio. Most TV shows these days use a 16:9 aspect ratio, so they should take up the whole screen by default. Older TV shows will use a 4:3 aspect ratio (the same as non-widescreen TVs), so if you're watching those properly, they'll be pillar-boxed (black bars on left and right). Yes

If you use zoom, you're going to lose part of the picture from the left and right sides, No, just the pillars. and as you've seen, anything in the top and bottom black bars. Well, only a certain amount of the top and bottom. The standard way to view wider-than-widescreen stuff is to just leave it letterboxed. Yeah, that's not the problem. The goal is just to use up as much of my screen real estate as I can, which zoom view does, but those dirty subtitles are put down off the bottom of my screen! :p
Thanks for the input. Comments in line, obviously.

[TheKeck]

Mormon to the core! ;)

Congrats.
Thanks! :)

[Inverarity]

You didn't mention what sort of connection you're using to hook the DVD player up to your TV. If you're using a composite video (single yellow RCA plug) or S-Video (keyed 4-pin plug), then your DVD player is probably sending a widescreen picture crammed into a 4:3 frame.

(Incidentally, this will make DVDs look horrible on newer TVs. The DVD player will try to put all the DVD's data into about 300 lines of resolution, which your TV will then zoom in on...it's not going to be pretty.)

If your DVD player has component video outputs (red, green, and blue RCA plugs), you should be using those. I'm assuming that if it's an older player it doesn't have an HDMI output. If component output is available, there are probably setup options for "progressive video output" and "widescreen video"; both of those should be turned on.

If you can post the model number of your DVD player and TV, I'd be happy to look up the details and write up a quick configuration list...

[Panthera]

Judging from your updated comments, I'm almost certain you need to set your DVD player to 16:9 or 'widescreen'. Switching to component cables is also a must, and upscaling DVD players are dirt cheap now - I suggest looking for those.

[Wraith]

Is this what's happening?:

- All your DVDs show in the 4:3 area of the screen, unless you use Zoom View on the TV. So if you watch a widescreen movie, you've got bars on the top, bottom and sides? But with Zoom View, it zooms in on that widescreen content, filling out all/most of the screen (depending on the exact aspect ratio of the content).

If that's the case, it sounds like you need to turn off Zoom View and get your DVD player to output its signal correctly. It should put 4:3 content in 4:3, and widescreen content in widescreen. If it isn't, there should be a setting for that.

When I got a widescreen HDTV, for a while, I manually swapped between 4:3 and widescreen in the DVD player settings, but eventually found the Auto setting that output everything at the right size automatically (except some menus and still image sections, where it stretches 4:3 to wide when it shouldn't).

[Geddlo]

Definitely no need to use zoom.

Not sure I understand the original post, but black bars are normal. They're supposed to be there.

[TheKeck]

You didn't mention what sort of connection you're using to hook the DVD player up to your TV. If you're using a composite video (single yellow RCA plug) or S-Video (keyed 4-pin plug), then your DVD player is probably sending a widescreen picture crammed into a 4:3 frame.

(Incidentally, this will make DVDs look horrible on newer TVs. The DVD player will try to put all the DVD's data into about 300 lines of resolution, which your TV will then zoom in on...it's not going to be pretty.)

If your DVD player has component video outputs (red, green, and blue RCA plugs), you should be using those. I'm assuming that if it's an older player it doesn't have an HDMI output. If component output is available, there are probably setup options for "progressive video output" and "widescreen video"; both of those should be turned on.

If you can post the model number of your DVD player and TV, I'd be happy to look up the details and write up a quick configuration list...
I am using component inputs with progressive scan. DVDs actually look quite nice.
Judging from your updated comments, I'm almost certain you need to set your DVD player to 16:9 or 'widescreen'. Switching to component cables is also a must, and upscaling DVD players are dirt cheap now - I suggest looking for those.
I will certainly look into a widescreen option.
Is this what's happening?:

- All your DVDs show in the 4:3 area of the screen, unless you use Zoom View on the TV. So if you watch a widescreen movie, you've got bars on the top, bottom and sides? But with Zoom View, it zooms in on that widescreen content, filling out all/most of the screen (depending on the exact aspect ratio of the content).

If that's the case, it sounds like you need to turn off Zoom View and get your DVD player to output its signal correctly. It should put 4:3 content in 4:3, and widescreen content in widescreen. If it isn't, there should be a setting for that.

When I got a widescreen HDTV, for a while, I manually swapped between 4:3 and widescreen in the DVD player settings, but eventually found the Auto setting that output everything at the right size automatically (except some menus and still image sections, where it stretches 4:3 to wide when it shouldn't).
Yes, again, this sounds like it might be what I need to do. Thanks all for the help. I will look for a widescreen setting on my DVD player tonight. Just out of curiosity, can this actually change where the subtitles show up? Are subtitles generated at run time by the dvd player, or are they actual content on the DVD?
Definitely no need to use zoom.

Not sure I understand the original post, but black bars are normal. They're supposed to be there.
It is clear that you did not understand.

[biosc1]

Look at the actual DVDs you are using as well. Some are presented as letterbox in a 4:3 ratio...so it's essentially still a square with a rectangle in the middle. What you want to look for, in regards to true widescreen DVDs is anamorphic widescreen.

http://www.thedigitalbits.com/articles/anamorphic/anamorphic185demo.html

[Ancalagon]

I still think its idiotic that they make consumer screens and televisions in 16:9 aspect ratio but all cinema content is filmed 2.35:1, which is probably closer to 21:9.

[Wraith]

Yes, again, this sounds like it might be what I need to do. Thanks all for the help. I will look for a widescreen setting on my DVD player tonight. Just out of curiosity, can this actually change where the subtitles show up? Are subtitles generated at run time by the dvd player, or are they actual content on the DVD?Subtitles aren't burned into the video or anything. It's just that your TV was zooming in on what the DVD player was outputting, which was putting the subtitles off-screen. If you get the DVD aspect ratio setting right, the subtitles shouldn't be a problem. They should show up fine in 4:3 and widescreen.

[BigJonno]

I still think its idiotic that they make consumer screens and televisions in 16:9 aspect ratio but all cinema content is filmed 2.35:1, which is probably closer to 21:9.

Agreed. When you spend a lot of money on a TV, you'd expect to be able to use the whole of that screen that you paid for, but nooooooo.

[johnperkins21]

First, check your DVDs. You may have been buying Pan and Scan DVDs, basically they crop the sides and digitally pan the picture to fit into the small square instead of the rectangle. Though there are some movies that were filmed in 4:3, then cropped on the top and bottom for Widescreen, and the 4:3 version is actually the full film (Liar, Liar with Jim Carey did this).

On the back of the DVD in the box with all the info it should tell you the aspect ratio of the disc. If it's 4:3, then the best option is really to just leave your default settings and watch it with the bars on either side. If it's anamorphic 16:9, then there's possibly a setting issue with your DVD player. Make sure you go in there and set the output to native or 16:9 or something (this would depend on the DVD player).

The only time you want to use the zoom feature on your TV is when you are watching a letterboxed 4:3 picture. Imagine an SD channel showing a movie in letterbox, so the actual movie is in a very small rectangle in the center of the screen. You'd zoom this in to get an approximation of anamorphic widescreen. The problem then becomes a lack of picture quality as you're zooming in on the picture, which doesn't increase the resolution of it. Though the TV will try to make it look as good as the image processor will allow.

[muddi900]

I still think its idiotic that they make consumer screens and televisions in 16:9 aspect ratio but all cinema content is filmed 2.35:1, which is probably closer to 21:9.

Agreed. When you spend a lot of money on a TV, you'd expect to be able to use the whole of that screen that you paid for, but nooooooo.

It was a compromise. There are a lot of AR formats(2.2, 1.78, 1.85. 1.33, etc) out there and they needed a frame that would fit them all. Also, 4:3 video on a 2.35 screen will have more wasted space. I don't see why this is such an issue. I used to watch letterboxed DVDs on a 14" TV before, had no issue.

[biosc1]

It was a compromise. There are a lot of AR formats(2.2, 1.78, 1.85. 1.33, etc) out there and they needed a frame that would fit them all. Also, 4:3 video on a 2.35 screen will have more wasted space. I don't see why this is such an issue. I used to watch letterboxed DVDs on a 14" TV before, had no issue.

Some like the bars, some don't.

..and there are wider widescreen tvs available, they just cost an arm and a leg. If you want to enjoy everything the way it's meant, just get a projector capable of all resolutions :)

[TheKeck]

Well, many of you were right. It was just as simple as changing my DVD player from 4:3 output to 16:9 output. And to think, I've only been using it that way for... about two years? :o

[Inverarity]

Don't worry, you're far from the record holder. A friend of a friend spent a huge amount of money on an earlier-generation HD display, and then connected all his equipment to it with composite-video cables. Everyone kept pointing out to him that this was the worst possible way to hook things up, and he would swear up and down that his way was better, that it didn't matter what cables you used because the TV was so advanced it would fix everything and "make it HD".

By comparison, you just happened to miss one particular setting in what's likely a poorly-designed DVD setup interface...I'm glad it was an easy fix. I take it all the subtitles appear correctly now?

[TheKeck]

By comparison, you just happened to miss one particular setting in what's likely a poorly-designed DVD setup interface...I'm glad it was an easy fix. I take it all the subtitles appear correctly now?
The thing is, I never "setup" my dvd player at all. I just use it.

I actually didn't even take the time to check the subtitles, (though I thought about it), it just seems perfectly obvious that it will work correctly now.

[Zanzibar]

Well, many of you were right. It was just as simple as changing my DVD player from 4:3 output to 16:9 output. And to think, I've only been using it that way for... about two years? :o

At least you noticed it. I have family members using 'stretch' that take 4:3 images stretched to 16:9, and they don't notice that everyone on the screen looks like Jabba the Hutt.

Oh, and they're using composite inputs on a 47" widescreen TV and exclaim what a great picture they're getting and how happy they are with their HDTV.

[Dukefrukem]

Here's the TV (http://www.sonystyle.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10551&storeId=10151&langId=-1&productId=8198552921666077682) I'm getting when I move into my new condo.

[Inverarity]

Bit small, isn't it?

[muddi900]

Some like the bars, some don't.

..and there are wider widescreen tvs available, they just cost an arm and a leg. If you want to enjoy everything the way it's meant, just get a projector capable of all resolutions :)

Commercial projectors are only as good as their screens, which are mostly 16:9, unless you break the bank and only use it for movies and only work on default 16:9 or 16:10 resolutions, so letterboxed video their to. Also, those 21:9 screens are a scam anyway, since they are just playing your normal content in stretch. And since all TV(not counting movie broadcasts) you receive OTA or through cable is 16:9 or 4:3, they become quite pointless.

Again, the reason 16:9 works is because it is the only one that works.

[Kagger]

The thing is, I never "setup" my dvd player at all. I just use it.

I actually didn't even take the time to check the subtitles, (though I thought about it), it just seems perfectly obvious that it will work correctly now.

Glad it got solved. I too ama subtitle/CC user. I had the same problem with my Samsung TV. If its not connected through HDMI, you either get 4:3 or 16:9 mode (and zoom). I was not made aware of the DVD player mode myself, so I noticed that when I went 16:9 mode, it kept the black bars at the top the same size, and just pulled the image to the left and right. So I had a widescreen image stretched horizontally. My parents TV is the same way. We had been watching stretched wide screen for years. I put it on 16:9 mode and the whole screen is now filled, and no distortion.

One problem I've noticed with some Anamorphic DVD's when I use a DVD player on 16:9 mode is the top and bottom 1/2 get cut off. If I play it through HDMI I can use screen fit mode which I think fixes this.

[torrefaction]

At least you noticed it. I have family members using 'stretch' that take 4:3 images stretched to 16:9, and they don't notice that everyone on the screen looks like Jabba the Hutt.

Oh, and they're using composite inputs on a 47" widescreen TV and exclaim what a great picture they're getting and how happy they are with their HDTV.

I remember when I first got my 360, and I didn't flick the little "HD" switch.

At first I was like...wow, this is really impressive, but not quite as good as my HDTV signal.

Then I flicked the switch, and fell in love with my 360.

[Inverarity]

Oh, and they're using composite inputs on a 47" widescreen TV and exclaim what a great picture they're getting and how happy they are with their HDTV.

As crazy as that sort of thing drives us (that is, people who make a point of setting things up right, calibrating, etc.), can you imagine how the folks who make the displays must feel? It's nearly impossible to build an A/V product that can be correctly set up by a novice - hell, it was barely possible in the age of the VCR, when things were comparatively simple.

They're pretty good about it now, but the Best Buys of the world used to be horrible at setting up their demo displays. You'd walk in and everything would be nine different flavors of wrong: fuzzy sources, bad zoom modes, convergence issues, color and contrast problems, you name it. When even the stores can't get it right, you can be pretty sure that the customers won't, either...

[TheKeck]

Commercial projectors are only as good as their screens, which are mostly 16:9, unless you break the bank and only use it for movies and only work on default 16:9 or 16:10 resolutions, so letterboxed video their to. Also, those 21:9 screens are a scam anyway, since they are just playing your normal content in stretch. And since all TV(not counting movie broadcasts) you receive OTA or through cable is 16:9 or 4:3, they become quite pointless.

Again, the reason 16:9 works is because it is the only one that works.
Huh? Don't you pretty much just point a projector at an empty wall?

[muddi900]

You can, but the result wouldn't anything extraordinary. There's a reason theaters have screens. You can get a good result of you paint your wall right, but I have never seen that.

[johnperkins21]

You can, but the result wouldn't anything extraordinary. There's a reason theaters have screens. You can get a good result of you paint your wall right, but I have never seen that.

There exists a special paint (http://www.paintonscreen.com/) for this application, and it's still not that great, especially if you have textured walls.

[Straximus]

At least you noticed it. I have family members using 'stretch' that take 4:3 images stretched to 16:9, and they don't notice that everyone on the screen looks like Jabba the Hutt.

That's my in-laws. To make matters even funnier, when they visited our house a couple months back (where we watch tv in the proper aspect ratio) they complained that everyone on our tv looked too skinny. :D I explained aspect ratio and the stretch feature they use, and my mother-in-law said, "well, and here we kept talking about 'look how much weight so-and-so has put on' ". It hasn't deterred them though. They still use the stretch feature exclusively. Even on letterboxed 16:9 shows where zoom would fill the screen. Ugh....