Windows 7 to be called Windows 7

[Wraith]

While this news is a week old, I haven't seen any Windows 7 discussion around here yet.

They've announced (http://windowsvistablog.com/blogs/windowsvista/archive/2008/10/13/introducing-windows-7.aspx) that it will actually be called "Windows 7," rather than using an "aspirational" name like XP or Vista, or a year number. They haven't used an incremental number like this since Windows 3.x. And for anyone wondering, the reason it's "7" (http://windows7news.com/2008/10/15/where-does-the-7-come-from-in-windows-7/):Several theories circulated on various sites about the 7 in the name. Some suggested that it was the version number of the code used while others said it was because of the beauty of the figure. All of these speculations were far from the truth which is much simpler. Take a look at the table and find out how Microsoft came up with the 7.

Windows 1 (Windows 1)
Windows 2 (Windows 2)
Windows 3 (Windows 3, Windows NT)
Windows 4 (Windows 95, Windows 98, Windows 98 SE, Windows ME)
Windows 5 (Windows 2000, Windows XP)
Windows 6 (Windows Vista)
Windows 7 (Windows 7)

Windows 7 is the “next logical significant release [after Windows Vista] and 7th in the family of Windows releases” and that is how the 7 was picked for the new operating system.

Apparently there will also be a public beta (http://windows7news.com/2008/10/16/public-windows-7-beta-to-be-expected-in-december/) available before the end of the year.

[NoName]

The arguments on Slashdot over the Windows ordering was pretty interesting to read.

Regardless, I've yet to see any news about Windows 7 that makes it more attractive than Vista. Though considering every other Windows release is worthwhile I suppose this will be the one to watch :).

[GigaFuzz]

I like it. Simple, and not pretentious like Vista was.

[fitbabits]

And the Vista suffix is being carefully phased out as well. It's Windows now, not Windows Vista.

[Wraith]

As for what's new in Windows 7, there's a great bit list here (http://www.winsupersite.com/faq/windows_7.asp).

Hit the link for details, but here's the outline:


Major Changes

Kernel
Virtualization
Sensors
User Account Control improvements
Improved "Day One Experience"
Scenic application user interface
Libraries
Tweaked Explorer
Accelerators for Windows
Multi-touch
Fewer bundled applications, more control over those applications that are installed
No more Sidebar
Windows Solution Center
HomeGroup networking

Minor Changes

Internet Explorer 8
Windows Media Player 12
Windows Media Center
Microsoft Paint --- They're finally improving Paint? Took long enough...
Microsoft WordPad
Calculator
Windows PowerShell V2 and Integrated Scripting Environment (ISE)
Windows Credentials
Display Settings
More granular DPI Scaling control panel
Aero themes
Wallpapers
Biometric control panel
Games Explorer
ClearType Text Tuner
Windows Mobile Device Center
Workspaces
Troubleshooting control panel
Minor tweaks and improvements all around

[NoName]

Sounds like Windows will be getting bigger still.

I've been looking into getting an EEE PC soon(ish, maybe, hopefully) and started reading about nLite OS (http://www.nliteos.com/) for Win XP. After learning more about it, I created a custom Windows install disk that's a third of the normal size, comes pre-installed with a few programs, and has the installers for other programs I'd want on the disk.

I installed this new build on one of my media PCs and it's been great. Short install time, all my custom windows settings correct right off the bat, and it feels "clean".

Then again, it's only a matter of time before I start yelling at kids to get off my lawn...

[Schnoogs]

Sounds like Windows will be getting bigger still.

With 8 gigs of memory and terrabyte HD costing pennies who cares?

[fitbabits]

With 8 gigs of memory and terrabyte HD costing pennies who cares?

Size isn't everything, sir. It depends how bloated Windows 7 is.

[NoName]

With 8 gigs of memory and terrabyte HD costing pennies who cares?

Because not everyone has a Magic PC? ;)

(That and I like a small fast experience on my media PCs and my laptop, pretty much on all but my gaming rig)

[Schnoogs]

Size isn't everything, sir. It depends how bloated Windows 7 is.

You've completely lost me on that one. Bloated is simply a negative and subjective interpretation of it's size. They are related though.

[Wraith]

Well, they are trying to move away from bloat (http://windows7news.com/2008/05/23/windows-7-to-break-backwards-compatibility/) in Windows 7.Previous versions of Windows provided backwards compatibility with older versions of windows, making it easy for users to upgrades as their favorite programs would still work.

However, with Windows 7 Microsoft are approaching backwards compatibility differently, and Windows 7 will not be binary compatible with older versions. This won’t mean that older programs won’t run, but that virtualisation will be used to make them run. The key drivers for this are performance improvements, but also in an attempt to sidestep regulatory programs.

Vista struggles with performance because Microsoft choose to incorporate regulatory challenged features like Internet Explorer and Windows Media Player using a modular design, rather than the monolithic processes used in previous versions of windows. The greater use of componentisation led to performance issues due to the increased number of libraries within the operating system. Simply put, the more separate files your hard drive has to load, the slower your system is going to run.

By not being binary compatible with previous versions of Windows and being built from the ground up, will give Windows 7 significant performance improvements. This will make it easier for developers to produce faster apps as they won’t have to worry about backwards compatibility, but it will increase the upgrade pain for users who may find that some of their existing applications will no longer work and will need upgrading.

[Wraith]

Also, from the what's new link I posted:
Fewer bundled applications, more control over those applications that are installed. Thanks to antitrust lawsuits from around the world, Microsoft is moving more applications out of Windows and making them optional installs through the Windows Live service. Windows 7 will no longer include Windows Mail, Windows Photo Gallery, or Windows Movie Maker. However, Microsoft is also adding end-user (and admin) support for full system customization, so you can control which applications are and are not installed in the OS. Finally.

[crazyD]

Sounds like Windows will be getting bigger still.

I've been looking into getting an EEE PC soon(ish, maybe, hopefully) and started reading about nLite OS (http://www.nliteos.com/) for Win XP. After learning more about it, I created a custom Windows install disk that's a third of the normal size, comes pre-installed with a few programs, and has the installers for other programs I'd want on the disk.

I installed this new build on one of my media PCs and it's been great. Short install time, all my custom windows settings correct right off the bat, and it feels "clean".

Then again, it's only a matter of time before I start yelling at kids to get off my lawn...

Just use the eee kubuntu release. Works great.

[NoName]

Also, from the what's new link I posted:

Now that's nice. If they give you close to as much control over the build as nLite (and apparently vLite for Vista) does then that will make Win 7 much more attractive.

[Wraith]

Does Vista already have a standalone windows update app (http://winfuture.de/index.php?nolayout=1&page=wfv4/BSv2/scg.show.php&pic_id=1223485107), so you don't have to use Internet Explorer if you want to run windows update manually? That's something I've wanted in XP... Anyway, looks like it's in Win7.

[NoName]

Just use the eee kubuntu release. Works great.

I've thought about it, but every time I try switching to linux I get frustrated after a couple weeks and switch back.

With an install of Win XP, I know everything about the OS. I can troubleshoot everything. Control of the OS has become something I can do without thinking about it. While there's many pro's for linux on EEE, I just want to stick with what I'm used to.

[GigaFuzz]

Does Vista already have a standalone windows update app (http://winfuture.de/index.php?nolayout=1&page=wfv4/BSv2/scg.show.php&pic_id=1223485107), so you don't have to use Internet Explorer if you want to run windows update manually?

Yes, Windows Update is a separate application.

[destoo]

I'm sure a marketing team got paid millions to come up with that one.
I can imagine the meeting, presenting the alternatives we'll never see.

[Mike Kelehan]

With 8 gigs of memory and terrabyte HD costing pennies who cares?

If you could point me in the direction of one of these sub-dollar terabyte HDDs, I'd be very grateful.

[Schnoogs]

If you could point me in the direction of one of these sub-dollar terabyte HDDs, I'd be very grateful.

Who said it was under a dollar? Any dollar amount can be converted to pennies! :p

[total]

With 8 gigs of memory and terrabyte HD costing pennies who cares?

People without 8 gigs of memory and a half a TB hard drive? So like almost everyone out there.

Seriously, there is no reason Vista should use the resources it does. When I heard they were working hard to make 7 a more lean OS (as in just as pretty as Vista without it nomnomnoming all your RAMs) I clapped. I am excited for the complete code rewrite (Apple did the same thing moving to OSX and survived just fine). I hope they get this one right.

[Schnoogs]

People without 8 gigs of memory and a half a TB hard drive? So like almost everyone out there..

Oh brother...first off it was an exageration meant to illustrate that we're no longer in the days of new PCs coming with 1 gig of ram and 100 gig HDs.

When Windows 7 comes out 2-4 gigs will be the norm. For those who choose to manually install Windows 7 it will be trivial to put in another 2 gigs.

Did you guys cry when DOS 6 came out? Win95? 98? 2000? XP?

This trend has been happening with Windows and MacOS since forever. People want new features but they expect them to magically run in fewer clock cycles and with a smaller memory footprint.

[TheFlyingOrc]

Oh brother...first off it was an exageration meant to illustrate that we're no longer in the days of new PCs coming with 1 gig of ram and 100 gig HDs.

So we're at the days of 2 gigs of RAM and 250 Gig hard drives. Things aren't that much better.

[Zrikz]

So we're at the days of 2 gigs of RAM and 250 Gig hard drives. Things aren't that much better.

I'd say we are up to 4 gigs and bigger HDs.. I mean hell, my sub $1000 laptop, last March, came with 4 gigs and a 250 gb hd, I've seen dell desktops come with more, for less. Windows 7 is probably a year + off, so by then ram prices will be even cheaper I'm sure... You can now buy a 1 TB hd for $100.

[TheFlyingOrc]

Honestly, I'm just amazed that they're updating paint and calculator.

[Wraith]

Windows 7 is probably a year + off, so by thenI think the current projection/estimate/rumor is very late 2009 or early 2010. (I believe Microsoft said something about it hitting in 2010, at one point.)

[TheFlyingOrc]

I think the current projection/estimate/rumor is very late 2009 or early 2010.

That seems insanely soon, but then again Vista was horribly delayed.

[Wraith]

FWIW, Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_7) says:Different Microsoft representatives have confirmed the second half of 2009[38] (http://blogs.zdnet.com/microsoft/?p=1417) and around January 2010[1] (http://www.engadget.com/2008/03/13/microsoft-finally-confirms-windows-7-for-2010-launch/) as the expected release timeframe for Windows 7, although InternetNews.com suggests that June 3, 2009 is the release date internally planned at Microsoft.

[Goronmon]

That seems insanely soon, but then again Vista was horribly delayed.I think it only seems that way because of the huge gap between XP and Vista.

[total]

Oh brother...first off it was an exageration meant to illustrate that we're no longer in the days of new PCs coming with 1 gig of ram and 100 gig HDs.

Go to Dell's website. Looks like basically all the low-mid range PCs are still coming with 1GB ram and an 80-100GB hard drive. Same thing with their laptops. So I don't think those days are quite over.

When Windows 7 comes out 2-4 gigs will be the norm. For those who choose to manually install Windows 7 it will be trivial to put in another 2 gigs.

And that is all fine and dandy. I simply can't see an OS needing the resources Vista does to simply run to be necessary. MS has already stated that Windows 7 will not be as resource hungry as Vista. Obviously if they see it as an issue it is an actual issue right?

Did you guys cry when DOS 6 came out? Win95? 98? 2000? XP?

Yes (I liked DR-DOS), No (I was fucking enamored. 95 was awesome), Not a bit (98 was great for it's time), No way (I still have a PC with 2k on it...because it just works...and it ran great on my 300A), yes and no (XP is still a great OS but before SP1 it was a disaster).

This trend has been happening with Windows and MacOS since forever. People want new features but they expect them to magically run in fewer clock cycles and with a smaller memory footprint.

Sure with MS it has. The Windows OS has always pushed sales of hardware in the industry. Something that has finally bit them in the ass with Vista (how many PCs have you upgraded RAM in that had 512 with Vista out of the box...I know I've had my fair share). We are getting to the point where features aren't as stand out as they used to be. The memory footprint and clock cycles simply aren't as necessary as they used to be. You can have an OS that does basically everything Vista can (and more!) without your resources disappearing into the OS.

Good clean code is something MS is in need of, and they realize this with Windows 7. Starting from the ground up is a good thing. Half of the problems Vista has is because they shoehorned compatibility while trying to create a brand new OS.

And Apple has always sold their hardware with their OS. They don't need to push hardware, they just need their OS to run well on it. The hardware Apple sells is just to get you to OSX.

[Khrymsyn]

That seems insanely soon, but then again Vista was horribly delayed.

Well, look at it from this point of view...

Vista - 2007 to Windows 7 - 2010 is 3 years.

95 to 98 was 3 years. 98 to ME/2000 2 years. ME/2000 to XP 2 years.

The only update that took longer than 2-3 years was XP to Vista, and look at where that got Microsoft. A ton of bad mojo for an OS that's not nearly as horrible as many people seem to think.

[J Arcane]

That seems insanely soon, but then again Vista was horribly delayed.
Vista wasn't delayed. Windows 7 was delayed. Vista was the half-assed ME-alike they pumped out in the interim from cobbled together bits of XP and 7 beta features.

[crazyD]

I've thought about it, but every time I try switching to linux I get frustrated after a couple weeks and switch back.

With an install of Win XP, I know everything about the OS. I can troubleshoot everything. Control of the OS has become something I can do without thinking about it. While there's many pro's for linux on EEE, I just want to stick with what I'm used to.

Newer Ubuntu releases are very user friendly, and pretty easy to convert from. Plus, you have way more control over what you can do in Linux then in Windows. Personally, I would suggest giving it a shot, as it is free and you may learn something new. I can even give you a hand if you have any questions. I'm running Xubuntu on my EEE PC, and it works great.

[Schnoogs]

Obviously if they see it as an issue it is an actual issue right?.

Not really since by the time it comes out hardware will be far in excess of what Vista even needs.

[total]

Not really since by the time it comes out hardware will be far in excess of what Vista even needs.

The point being that MS themselves don't think they should need that hardware to run a functional OS.

[TheFlyingOrc]

Newer Ubuntu releases are very user friendly, and pretty easy to convert from. Plus, you have way more control over what you can do in Linux then in Windows. Personally, I would suggest giving it a shot, as it is free and you may learn something new. I can even give you a hand if you have any questions. I'm running Xubuntu on my EEE PC, and it works great.

The problem with all Linux distros is sometimes certain hardware just simply will not work, or will work until you upgrade and then require you to spend three hours fixing it. Wireless cards are especially notorious.

[Schnoogs]

The point being that MS themselves don't think they should need that hardware to run a functional OS.

Where did they say that?

[Goronmon]

The problem with all Linux distros is sometimes certain hardware just simply will not work, or will work until you upgrade and then require you to spend three hours fixing it. Wireless cards are especially notorious.This, plus the fact that you are generally requiring drivers to be written by people other than the original manufacturer.

[Schnoogs]

I use Linux because I have to at school and it's a PITA. Knock Windows all you want at least the shit works and you don't spend days trying to get simple hardware to work.

[total]

Where did they say that?

http://blogs.zdnet.com/microsoft/?p=842

http://www.informationweek.com/blog/main/archives/2008/05/microsoft_sligh.html

http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&articleId=9043359

“A lot of people think of Windows as this really large, bloated operating system, and that may be a fair characterization, I have to admit.”

“[So] we created what we call MinWin. It’s still bigger than I’d like it to be, but we’ve taken a shot at really stripping out all of the layers above and making sure that we had a clean architectural layer there.” ~~Eric Traut

[crazyD]

The problem with all Linux distros is sometimes certain hardware just simply will not work, or will work until you upgrade and then require you to spend three hours fixing it. Wireless cards are especially notorious.

Luckily, the eee xubuntu release includes all needed drivers and works properly directly after being installed on an eeePC.

I've been running Ubuntu Hardy since beta, and haven't had any compatibility issues. I am currently running it on 5 of my 6 PCs, the other is my eeePC using eee Xubuntu Gutsy.

[total]

This, plus the fact that you are generally requiring drivers to be written by people other than the original manufacturer.

What the shit? Intel, AMD, Nvidia and a whole slew of other big names write their own Linux drivers. Out of box driver support for every one of my Ubuntu machines is far better than Vista SP1 is (on those that can run it that is). I can install Ubuntu on my laptop in almost no time and the only thing that doesn't work out of the box is my video card (OpenGL doesn't work properly). I click on a little dialog box in my system tray and click install ATI drivers and it works perfectly after a reboot.

There are plenty of things to knock Linux for, driver support wouldn't be my first choice.

[Schnoogs]

http://blogs.zdnet.com/microsoft/?p=842

http://www.informationweek.com/blog/main/archives/2008/05/microsoft_sligh.html

http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&articleId=9043359

“A lot of people think of Windows as this really large, bloated operating system, and that may be a fair characterization, I have to admit.”

“[So] we created what we call MinWin. It’s still bigger than I’d like it to be, but we’ve taken a shot at really stripping out all of the layers above and making sure that we had a clean architectural layer there.” ~~Eric Traut


Oh...I've read that before and it has nothing to do with what we're specifically talking about.

[total]

With 8 gigs of memory and terrabyte HD costing pennies who cares?

Oh...I've read that before and it has nothing to do with what we're specifically talking about.

Bloat has nothing to do with gigs of ram and TB hard drives? I'm not quite sure I'm following you here.

[Wraith]

Bloat has nothing to do with gigs of ram and TB hard drives? I'm not quite sure I'm following you here.He means MinWin has nothing to do with Windows 7, I believe. (While they're related, yeah, Windows 7 isn't going to use the exact same kernel as MinWin.)

[Schnoogs]

Bloat has nothing to do with gigs of ram and TB hard drives? I'm not quite sure I'm following you here.

There's bloat in terms of installation size and bloat in terms of memory footprint.

MinWin was like a micro-kernel experiment.

[VerseD]

Good thing I never upgraded to Vista. I was planning on getting a new laptop in a year or two, so I'll just get Windows 7 with that.

I'm glad they're trimming the fat, so to speak. Vista was far too much of a resource hog whenever I saw it in action, and the extra features just weren't worth the hassle.

[boratika]

Everything I've read about win7 so far leads me to believe they have done a pretty good job of identifying what went wrong as well as right with Vista. But then I feel silly about getting excited by an OS.

Who said it was under a dollar? Any dollar amount can be converted to pennies! :p
Don't you have a law there where coins are only legal tender up to a certain amount?
Honestly, I'm just amazed that they're updating paint and calculator.
I think my mind just blew!
This, plus the fact that you are generally requiring drivers to be written by people other than the original manufacturer.

Sooooooo...is that a good thing or a bad thing?

[Johan]

And the Vista suffix is being carefully phased out as well. It's Windows now, not Windows Vista.

This is true, and primarily, IMHO, because MS failed to define their product successfully in the public arena and allowed Apple and others to turn it into a dirty word. Deservedly so, IMHO. I'm skipping Vista entirely and waiting for the next OS.

[Schnoogs]

Good thing I never upgraded to Vista. I was planning on getting a new laptop in a year or two, so I'll just get Windows 7 with that.

I'm glad they're trimming the fat, so to speak. Vista was far too much of a resource hog whenever I saw it in action, and the extra features just weren't worth the hassle.

Clearly someone who has never used Vista

[VerseD]

Clearly someone who has never used Vista

Like I said I never upgraded. But all my friends who do have Vista, mostly because they bought a new computer in the last few years, haven't liked it. Unless they have a really good rig it goes very slow, especially when they're playing games or anything. That's just my limited experience with it though.

[Dukefrukem]

Isn't this OS the same OS that surface is based on?

[Brady]

Isn't this OS the same OS that surface is based on?

They are similar... but everything in windows is now in components where each diff team can write their code and shove the final code into the pack and it all just works. Previous versions everything was just kind of mixed up so you couldn't say take out one thing and not have it break several others.

The base of Surface and Windows 7 will share a lot, but Surface is still a diff branch. Windows 7 did steal a lot from Surface though, with the entire OS being multitouch friendly.

[Schnoogs]

They are similar... but everything in windows is now in components where each diff team can write their code and shove the final code into the pack and it all just works. Previous versions everything was just kind of mixed up so you couldn't say take out one thing and not have it break several others.

The base of Surface and Windows 7 will share a lot, but Surface is still a diff branch. Windows 7 did steal a lot from Surface though, with the entire OS being multitouch friendly.

I can't tell if you actually know something or are really good at bullshitting! :p

[Brady]

I can't tell if you actually know something or are really good at bullshitting! :p

http://www.winsupersite.com/win7/win7_hereitcomes.asp

Previous to Windows Vista Service Pack 1 and Windows Server 2008, Microsoft maintained a central build trunk for its Windows products and would "fork" the tree into different development paths, or branches, to accommodate different releases. (This process is outlined in my article, Windows Server 2003: The Road To Gold, Part Two: Developing Windows.) As these Windows versions were completed, their code base would need to be merged back into the central build trunk, a complicated and error-prone process.

No more. Now, thanks to the componentization efforts it underwent during the development of Windows Vista, Microsoft maintains a single code base for all Windows versions (including Windows client, Server, and Home Server). Only final, shippable code is added to this codebase and Microsoft creates builds of Windows by aggregating only the exact components needed to create that version. This way, the Windows code base is always up to date, and the version built always includes whatever is most recent on that day.

Unfinished code, of course, is built and developed separately from the main code base and is added only when it passes high quality bars. With Windows 7, Microsoft could actually ship a final version of the OS anytime it wants--including today, incidentally--because the code that is in the main code base is of shippable quality. This means that Windows 7 could pop out of Redmond at any time over the next year or two. All that's holding it up is marketing considerations about the exact features Microsoft wants to include. Which brings us to...

I also have a link somewhere about the Suface team continuing indipendent of the Win7 team but I can't find it... Basically surface for now will be used for business applications. The first company to deploy it is/was some hotel in Seattle I believe. They have one in their lobby where you can find out info about the hotel, things to do around the hotel, get directions and whatever.

[Disgustipated]

Oh brother...first off it was an exageration meant to illustrate that we're no longer in the days of new PCs coming with 1 gig of ram and 100 gig HDs.

When Windows 7 comes out 2-4 gigs will be the norm. For those who choose to manually install Windows 7 it will be trivial to put in another 2 gigs.

Did you guys cry when DOS 6 came out? Win95? 98? 2000? XP?

This trend has been happening with Windows and MacOS since forever. People want new features but they expect them to magically run in fewer clock cycles and with a smaller memory footprint.

I cried for at least 3 days after Windows XP was released. You insensitive asshole.