Need to put your PC Guitar controller to good use?

[pheriannath]

This just got served up as an ad over on Co-Optimus:

http://www.guitarpraise.com/ecard/v1.php

Works on Mac too! I'm laughing so hard right now.

[KingGorilla]

OLD!

Guitar Hero 3 had Charlie Daniels, what more do these wackos want?

[pheriannath]

Bah! It may be old, but it's still hilarious.

[KingGorilla]

Having been tortured like Alex in A Clockwork Orange to the likes of DC Talk and other "Inspirational Rock" against my will, in concert form, I can assure you that this is no laughing matter.

[J Arcane]

OLD!

Guitar Hero 3 had Charlie Daniels, what more do these wackos want?
And surprise, it's a hundred fucking bucks, $20 more than GHIII. And why? Because it says "Christian" on it, that's why.

These types of companies make me puke. Same types of dipshit Bible salesmen who'll charge $40 for a softcover book with paper flimsier than most newsprint.

But it wouldn't work if there weren't a lot of suckers to snap it up, usually the kind that won't let their kids listen to "secular music", or ban non-religious TV, and on and on.

It's disgusting, and Christ would go all temple money-changers on these people if he were alive, I have no doubt in my mind.

[KingGorilla]

Can I picture him as Willem Defoe with an axe?

[J Arcane]

Can I picture him as Willem Defoe with an axe?
Willem Dafoe would've looked rather out of place in 1st century Jerusalem. ;)

[KingGorilla]

Willem Dafoe would've looked rather out of place in 1st century Jerusalem. ;)

My first Century Jerusalem is directed by Martin Scorsese.

[Hotcod]

where ever there are blindly loyal nut jobs there is money... just look at apple *runs away*....

Heh that did make me giggle a bit, just the way they are trying to sell it like it's not a guitar hero rip off... it also looks awful... they could have spent a little more money on it i mean if you are going to rip people off it may as well look purdy... just look at apple... sorry!

*really runs away*

[Inspector Fowler]

I'm really not sure what people want here.

What you guys seem to be saying is that Christians who choose not to listen to secular music should not get any music game at all because:

A - This one is too expensive
B - Nobody should ever make any money on faith-based stuff
C - They are just copying Guitar Hero

What would you guys suggest? I agree that $100 is way too much. But even at a more reasonable price point, they still deserve to make money from their work. And as far as copying Guitar Hero...Rock Band?

Let's start from this framework, with a couple assumptions - A) Any music/rythm game is going to copy Guitar Hero to some degree. B) It's not fair to expect these guys to work for free just because they want to include their faith in their product.

With those two caveats, what kind of faith-based music game would you guys want to see on the market?

[J Arcane]

I was gonna further elaborate on the nature of my objection vis a vis modern-day temple marketeers, but then I read this part:

And as far as copying Guitar Hero...Rock Band?


And at that point I pretty much had no choice but conclude you were trolling.

[Hotcod]

i think the point simply is that the game is an over priced rip off that is only so over priced and under standard beacuse it's selling it's self to a some what captive and insulated audience... from the looks of it it cost next to nothing to make hell ferts on fire looks better than that and so on and so forth... it's just vastly over priced by people some what cynical selling the idea to a Christian market

[Grifter]

It's nice to see ignorance and bigotry are still alive and well, I was worried they got left behind at EvAv.

[Inspector Fowler]

Wow, J Arcane accused me of trolling...I feel kind of proud.

Maybe "copy" isn't the right word. Can we agree that Rock Band is, perhaps, a "direct descendant" of Guitar Hero? That it owes its existence to the popularity of Guitar Hero, and that its gameplay borrows heavily from Guitar Hero? I think we can agree on those points.

I chose to ignore you calling Christians "suckers" when they don't want to spend money on music/entertainment that doesn't promote their beliefs. But I'll address it now: That's uncalled for.

I used to be hardcore atheist. I hated all Christians. I hated what they stood for. I couldn't stand their preachiness and their holier than thou attitude. I thought they were weak for relying on some magic being instead of using their own intellect to make it in this world. I would harass and debate Christians every chance I got - my Christian friends were more than kind in this area.

In 1999, I became a Christian, and now I can see things from both sides of the fence. I still see the Christians who do nothing to honor God when they belittle or harass people of other faiths. I still see how some Christians turn people off to God when they discuss God with non-Christians without using tact or love. I see Christians who want to turn people towards God, but turn them away by giving them all the lectures and information without just showing them love. It's frustrating. It's all the same things that kept me away from Christianity for so long.

But now I also see how serious the Christian faith is. Part of that is knowing what your limits are personally, and creating good "filters" for your children. Some Christians can watch all kinds of stuff, and it doesn't affect their faith, nor does it necessarily offend them. Others choose to limit what they watch and listen to, choosing movies, TV, and music that honors God. They have an obligation to their children to impose filters on them (although, in fairness, they must also slowly lift those filters as children become older, or they truly do become "insulated" as Hotcod noted).

Call somebody a sucker because they spend their money in a way that honors their faith is sad. Understand that to a born-again Christian, this isn't about "being a good person". Each Christian, must, in his own way, choose to honor God so that others will turn towards Him. It's a very real Holy War to us. The sad thing is that we (Christians) often make people feel like they're the enemy. With human souls at stake, it's a mistake that is costly.

So I repeat the question I asked in my first post, but in a different form:

If this game were every bit as polished and fun as GHIII or RB, would it be "okay"? Or would it still be laughed at?

[boratika]

What you guys seem to be saying is that Christians who choose not to listen to secular music should not get any music game at all because:

I'd have a bit more sympathy for these people if they'd bothered to actually read their bible. It doesn't work if you just leave it on the shelf and never open it.

Thessalonians 5:21

Test all things and hold fast to that which is good

I don't see how secular music bans conform to this. Nor do I remember an executive exception like there is for killing folks or stealing or eating pigs.




And why complain about Rock Band ripping off Guitar Hero, when you could complain about Guitar Hero being a rip off of Guitar Freaks ;)

[boratika]

So I repeat the question I asked in my first post, but in a different form:

If this game were every bit as polished and fun as GHIII or RB, would it be "okay"?

Yes. But the box art would still be heaped with scorn (just like the Singstar PS3 and Lips covers are. Now that's Secular!)

[Veregon]

Maybe "copy" isn't the right word. Can we agree that Rock Band is, perhaps, a "direct descendant" of Guitar Hero? That it owes its existence to the popularity of Guitar Hero, and that its gameplay borrows heavily from Guitar Hero?I think the issue here is that you don't know that Rock Bank was developed by the developers of Guitar Hero and GH has been pawned off to the Tony Hawk development team.

[AniAko]

I'm holding out for Christian Rap DJ Hero myself.

[Hotcod]

aren't we forgetting GuitarFreaks? ever damn guitar thing is ripped of from one thing or another at this point but that's not the point. This is something that is done poorly and sold at a high price simply beacuse they can get away with it since its 'faith based'

[Squidbot]

You'll all be laughing on the other sides of your faces when Jesus lays the metal down!

[boratika]

aren't we forgetting GuitarFreaks?

I didn't. End of my first post.;)

[Hotcod]

..... stop point out that i'm a dumb ass... thank you.

[Inspector Fowler]

aren't we forgetting GuitarFreaks? ever damn guitar thing is ripped of from one thing or another at this point but that's not the point. This is something that is done poorly and sold at a high price simply beacuse they can get away with it since its 'faith based'

Your respone wasn't so much my focus as J Arcane's post was. Especially when phrased that way, I agree with you. Perhaps an equation ;)

Faith Based + Bad Quality + High Price (only one on the market!) = Sales Anyway Because What Choice Do They Have?

Without competition, there is often only one option. That option doesn't have to be well done or affordable, people who want it don't have a choice.

And, Boratika, we're asked not to judge people who abstain or indulge in something we may find unclean.

Romans 14:13-16 Therefore let us stop passing judgment on one another. Instead, make up your mind not to put any stumbling block or obstacle in your brother's way. As one who is in the Lord Jesus, I am fully convinced that no food is unclean in itself. But if anyone regards something as unclean, then for him it is unclean. If your brother is distressed because of what you eat, you are no longer acting in love. Do not by your eating destroy your brother for whom Christ died. Do not allow what you consider good to be spoken of as evil.

I think this can be extended to what we watch, listen to, wear, play, etc. When my Christian friends come over, I don't expect them to watch Shoot 'Em Up with me. I refrain from showing it to them because I know they would find it, in this sense, "unclean".

How frequently must we test something to determine that we find it "unclean"? I dunno. Just looking over the GHIII songlist on Wikipedia, I can say there isn't much reason to test it if you're the kind of person who doesn't listen to secular music. Somehow I doubt The Number of the Beast is going to be a real turn on for many Christians.

I can accept and agree with the criticism that oftentimes, Christian-based versions (copies) of secular stuff never hit the same quality level as the "real" versions, and therefore end up being overpriced ripoffs. But if somebody wants to abstain from secular/pop music because it doesn't help them with their faith, that is their choice.

Sorry if I seemed a little defensive in my first couple posts. I just find that, here and on our previous site, anybody with a Christian view gets shut down/shut up pretty harshly. Compared to most Christians, I have a pretty flexible view of what I consider unclean (I doubt most people at my church would approve of Hellboy on my DVD rack, just to start). But when the third post in simultaneously calls Christians "suckers" and then implies that this game's price point makes them as bad as the people who were, in essence, making a profit off of Jewish worshipper's salvation, it can be easy to take offense.

[LongStepMantis]

And surprise, it's a hundred fucking bucks, $20 more than GHIII. And why? Because it says "Christian" on it, that's why.

These types of companies make me puke. Same types of dipshit Bible salesmen who'll charge $40 for a softcover book with paper flimsier than most newsprint.

But it wouldn't work if there weren't a lot of suckers to snap it up, usually the kind that won't let their kids listen to "secular music", or ban non-religious TV, and on and on.

It's disgusting, and Christ would go all temple money-changers on these people if he were alive, I have no doubt in my mind.

Carpetbaggers for Christ? It has a nice ring to it. ;)

George Carlin summed that whole sham up nicely.
"God needs money. he's all powerful, all knowing, all seeing, but he just can't handle money. Every time you see these puke televangelists harping on TV, they always want you to send them money. If you ask me, the church should be giving money to you."

[J Arcane]

Faith Based + Bad Quality + High Price (only one on the market!) = Sales Anyway Because What Choice Do They Have?

Without competition, there is often only one option. That option doesn't have to be well done or affordable, people who want it don't have a choice.

So you do understand my point. You're just too busy leaping to be offended to admit it.

And they do have a choice. Their choice is to be stronger in their faith that they might no longer need to be constantly surrounded with nothing but constant deluge of badly made religious propaganda to bolster what should be an earnest and heartfelt belief.

Somehow I doubt The Number of the Beast is going to be a real turn on for many Christians.

You underestimate some of our love for Revelations references. Beaqst and the Harlot was like my favorite song in GHII.

But when the third post in simultaneously calls Christians "suckers" and then implies that this game's price point makes them as bad as the people who were, in essence, making a profit off of Jewish worshipper's salvation, it can be easy to take offense.

Yup. As far as I'm concerned these people are indeed, no better than the temple merchants. It's the same disgusting behavior, the same motivation ultimately.

But then, personally I think it's wrong to make a profit off of selling the word of God in general. The Gideons have it right here, as far as I'm concerned.

[Mike Kelehan]

I wish this were on the 360, so I could rent it and carefully finagle 666 achievement points.

[Inspector Fowler]

@J Arcane: I understand your thoughts on this. I don't want you to feel attacked or anything. Still.

Here are a couple key differences.

In Jewish culture, you were required to tithe. It was part of your sacrifice to God. 10% off the top of everything - 10% of your money, and the best 10% of your livestock and cattle. Without making this sacrifice, you could not be right with God. As in, you had a broken relationship with him. It was a required part of the Jewish faith.

When Jews from other areas came to make their sacrifice, they didn't have the right kind of money to make their offering in the temple. They had to change their currency over. What Jesus had a problem with was that, instead of simply changing the currency at the correct exchange rate, the money changers were making a very tidy profit off the Jews who were from other places. The money changers were making a profit off of a necessary element of the salvation of others.

Overcharging for a guitar game isn't the same. Salvation isn't determined by whether you played GHIII or this game. They aren't marketing this as something essential to your faith, without which you cannot be saved. If they did, I would find it every bit as distasteful as you do.

I respect your thought that nobody should make a profit on the word of God. I don't agree with it, but I respect it. I would ask you to consider, however, that these guys aren't really profiting off the word of God. Nothing in this game is essential to salvation or faith/belief, and they aren't claiming it is.

I also respect your thought that Christians shouldn't have to be "constantly surrounded with nothing but constant deluge of badly made religious propaganda to bolster what should be an earnest and heartfelt belief". I don't agree with that, though.

Me? As a Christian, I definitely don't need it. I'm watching Dawn of the Dead as I type this. But to belittle somebody's faith because they may stumble if they listen to/watch/play music/movies/games that are un or anti-Christian? I'll repeat this quote from Paul: "Therefore let us stop passing judgment on one another. Instead, make up your mind not to put any stumbling block or obstacle in your brother's way." If praise and worship music is part of somebody else's faith, who am I to judge them when they don't want to watch Dawn of the Dead? And who would they be to judge me, if it doesn't cause me to sin?

And as shocking as this may be, does it occur to you that many people choose to listen to praise/worship music to actually worship God? That the act of singing words that honor and glorify God is something they enjoy doing?

I've kind of re-stated and overstated my point here. I don't want you to feel like I'm attacking you, so I'll let it go.

Sigh. I knew I'd let myself get drawn into a debate like this, that's why I stayed out of the P&R forum at EvAv. I apologize if I've offended you with my views, but it's a pretty personal and serious subject for me.

[J Arcane]

Bottom line, there are some things I just don't believe should ever be exploited for profit. Religious faith is most certainly one of them.

I find the entire industry that has sprung up around Christian media in this country to be frankly rather disturbing, and this is just one small glimpse in to that exploitation.

You're quibbling on a theological point regarding the story of the temple money-changers and marketeers, while ignoring the spirit of it. We are, in both sides of the analogy, talking about an entire industry that sprung up to exploit religious belief and practice for monetary gain, and in both cases it was and is abominable behavior.

The fact that these Bible salesmen aren't more widely reviled by the faithful says a lot about the corrupting seed of American corporate values.

[Inspector Fowler]

Well, regardless of our differences, this has been one of the most civil discussions of religion I've ever had online. My hat is off to you, Sr. Arcane.

[Hotcod]

Well, regardless of our differences, this has been one of the most civil discussions of religion I've ever had online. My hat is off to you, Sr. Arcane.

YOUR BOTH FAGZ!

sorry, i had to restore balance to the force