Attempted Terror Attack 12/25/09 [Archive]

Wraith

12-26-2009, 09:40 PM

http://gothamist.com/attachments/jen/2009_12_atttt.jpg

Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab, Nigeran, age 23, flew from Lagos to Amsterdam, then on a Northwest/Delta flight from Amsterdam to Detroit, attempted to set off an explosive device. A six-inch package of powder and a syringe of liquid were sewn into his underwear. When he attempted to ignite the explosive, passengers noticed a loud popping noise and strange odor; one leg of his pants and the side of the plane caught fire. When asked by a flight attendant what he had in his pocked, he said "explosive device." Passengers and crew overpowered the man and put out the fire.

The man's father, a prominent Nigerian banker, warned the U.S. embassy and Nigerian officials about his son's extremist political views. He was put on a U.S. list of suspected terrorist suspects, but there was insufficient information to put him on the no-fly list.

Abdulmutallab, currently being treated at a Detroit hospital, has been charged by U.S. government officials.

Experts said that there was enough explosive material to destroy the jet, but the makeshift detonator failed.

Nigerian charged with trying to blow up U.S. jet (http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSLDE5BP05B20091227) (Reuters)

Father warned US about plane bomb suspect's behaviour (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8431470.stm) (BBC News)

U.S. Charges Nigerian Man With Attempt To Destroy Plane (http://gothamist.com/2009/12/26/us_charges_nigerian_man_with_attemp.php) (Gothamist)

Officials: Only A Failed Detonator Saved Northwest Flight (http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/northwest-flight-saved-failed-detonator/story?id=9426532) (ABC News)

Shrinn

12-26-2009, 11:01 PM

So sad.. so pointless. Some kind of miracle that the detonator was faulty.

Generation ABXY

12-26-2009, 11:16 PM

If not for that detonator, that would have been a horrible note for the holidays...hell, it still is. :(

boratika

12-26-2009, 11:53 PM

God damn, why do people have to be such douche bags. Because I always wished someone would give a good reason for the contents of my underwear to be checked when travelling internationally :mad: (you, know, among other things that weren't cool about this.)

Narradisall

12-27-2009, 03:28 AM

Well at least he was honest about what was in his pants.

I could think of several witty bond like remarks if a stewardess asked me that, and several non-bond like ones....

Abednigo

12-27-2009, 08:10 AM

As I told my wife after hearing this, people won't let another 9-11, or even another hijacking, happen if they can help it. The passengers who took this guy out are heroes, plain and simple.

Before 9-11: Wait it out and don't resist. You'll likely be freed once demands or ransoms are met. You aren't their primary target.

Post 9-11: Take the jerk off down. He doesn't care about money or his "brothers in prison". You are his primary target and he wants to kill you. Don't give him the chance.

ShivaX

12-27-2009, 08:10 AM

I'm just waiting for the first terrorist to fill his ass with explosives.

There becomes a point where you can't win this arms race really unless you're willing to strip search and cavity search every person that wants to board a flight.

Ravenlock

12-27-2009, 08:24 AM

From what I'm reading elsewhere, it might be somewhat questionable whether what he was carrying really could have brought down the plane, but I guess that's neither here nor there.

So now I guess we can look forward to full cavity searches before boarding, to make sure we don't have explosives hidden up our ass. (Hasn't happened here yet, but give it time (http://www.islamicaweb.com/forums/news-media/14087-saudi-terrorist-hid-bomb-his-anal-cavity.html).) I wonder if anybody will have the common sense to point out that this is a great example of why everybody taking their shoes off is and has always been fucking useless - turns out, shoes aren't actually the only place you can hide something.

*Sigh* I'm glad I don't travel much. The security theatre is almost certainly going to get worse before it gets better.

EDIT: Beat'd by ShivaX! But I had the link to the ass bomber story, so I win. ;)

H.Bogard

12-27-2009, 08:38 AM

Fucking bitches. Blowing up innocent people is sure to teach them a lesson, huh?

I don't even know what these bastards have for brains.

ShivaX

12-27-2009, 09:29 AM

EDIT: Beat'd by ShivaX! But I had the link to the ass bomber story, so I win. ;)

You do win, but it was only a matter of time. Now once one of those guys gets on a plane we'll see what happens. Maybe they'll outlaw the use of lavatories on flights. Or you'll have to have a flight attendant help you go take a piss or something.

biosc1

12-27-2009, 11:47 AM

Good news everyone! I had to fly into your country yesterday.

Even the flight attendants called it the "jail flight". Thankfully it was only an hour down to Seattle.

No standing.
No blankets.
No jacket over your knees.
No accessing anything under the seat.
Seatbelts to remain buckled.
No electronic device...if it has a battery, it has to be off.
No use of the bathroom...(during pre-flight, they open the bathroom door and went "And here's the bathroom..sorry, you can't use it).

Due to no standing, you can't access anything in the overhead. Thankfully, I had a good magazine with me, but all I had aside from that was a Kindle.

Thankfully, I went pee before boarding the flight...I'm not sure how that is going to stand up in the future, though...are people supposed to pee in their seats?

Domestic flights are unaffected though, which is strange.

Vigil80

12-27-2009, 12:21 PM

Disgusting. Too bad you (probably) can't get capital punishment for attempted terrorism.

He was put on a U.S. list of suspected terrorist suspects, but there was insufficient information to put him on the no-fly list.
This statement puzzles me. I know, it's going to be hard enough to fly after these kinds of things, but how is being on an official list of possible terrorists not enough to keep him off the plane?

Wait, we don't even need to keep him grounded. Just send notice to airport security to search them, and do it real good.

"Excuse me, sir, but there was a flag when we ran your info. Please step over to Mr. Hudson there for a strip and cavity search.

His nickname around the locker room is Slow Hand, like the Conway Twitty song. Enjoy."

Arphahat

12-27-2009, 12:29 PM

ShivaX

12-27-2009, 12:32 PM

Vigil80

12-27-2009, 12:40 PM

I really don't understand the point of the terrorist attacks. What is the thing they are attempting to accomplish? Like, 9/11, for instance. What did that accomplish? They killed a bunch of innocent people and now have the rage of an entire nation wishing them dead while before there might have been at least some sort of sympathy or willingness to help. Maybe someone has some insight? I just don't get the point.
These are people whose lives and identities are defined by their hatred and political views (though using that term is ennobling it). They are as off-balance as any violent criminal.

However, it's interesting to note that you never see a terrorist leader trying something like this. I wonder what they know that the others don't, that keeps them from trying to claim glory in a suicide attack? ;)

Ink Asylum

12-27-2009, 01:02 PM

The new rules are pointless and aren't going to stop any future terrorist attacks. I'm pretty sure there were rules against taking over the cockpit before 9/11 but that didn't stop anyone. Controlling people's behavior once they're inside the plane is pointless. Terrorists are going to do whatever they want once they're on board and the only thing rules might possibly do is clue in flight attendants a minute earlier than normal. While that might be time to prevent an explosive being set off, it's a minor gain in comparison to the millions of passengers who will be treated like cattle.

Wackman3000

12-27-2009, 01:08 PM

Not looking forward to my flight to Vegas on NYE...

Generation ABXY

12-27-2009, 01:51 PM

This statement puzzles me.

Innocent until proven guilty, I guess, Prizefighter.

I really don't understand the point of the terrorist attacks. What is the thing they are attempting to accomplish? Like, 9/11, for instance. What did that accomplish? They killed a bunch of innocent people and now have the rage of an entire nation wishing them dead while before there might have been at least some sort of sympathy or willingness to help. Maybe someone has some insight? I just don't get the point.

I won't pretend to understand all the nuances of anyone's mind, least of all a terrorist's, but I imagine it is, at least in part, to raise awareness. When someone does something like this, one of the biggest questions is often why did it happen, and that gets people to look at some aspects they might ordinarily be blind to. I mean, I'm willing to bet most people have paid more attention to the Middle East in this past decade than they have in their entire lives, even if it is just because there's a war going on there now. It's true that that method is a bit of a double-edged sword, but that doesn't mean it isn't at all effective - I don't know about you, but I've encountered countless people who have said 9/11 was our on fault (for our meddling in the Middle East, or whatever else).

diablopath

12-27-2009, 02:26 PM

I won't pretend to understand all the nuances of anyone's mind, least of all a terrorist's, but I imagine it is, at least in part, to raise awareness. When someone does something like this, one of the biggest questions is often why did it happen, and that gets people to look at some aspects they might ordinarily be blind to. I mean, I'm willing to bet most people have paid more attention to the Middle East in this past decade than they have in their entire lives, even if it is just because there's a war going on there now. It's true that that method is a bit of a double-edged sword, but that doesn't mean it isn't at all effective - I don't know about you, but I've encountered countless people who have said 9/11 was our on fault (for our meddling in the Middle East, or whatever else).

I think you come pretty close with this - awareness. But, in the end, it's still just terrorism. While I've tried very hard to understand the concerns of such ideologies, and have found sympathies with some of their causes, the means just don't justify the ends.

As for people saying 9/11 was our own fault due to meddling, I think it's much more complicated than that. I wouldn't be offended by any suggestion that the hatred towards the West is our (Europe + America) fault, but to narrow that down further to 9/11 is quite a stretch. History is a convoluted son of a bitch, eh?

Vigil80

12-27-2009, 04:11 PM

Innocent until proven guilty, I guess, Prizefighter.
Yeah yeah, I get it. Let's stop any anti-police state speeches before they start. But you don't land on that list by running a yellow light, do you? A more thorough search wouldn't land us in the realm of big brother, and in this case would have found the material in the guy's drawers.

I'm not saying I know of an elegant solution that won't hurt feelings. But if the government has this list of terrorist suspects, seems like they should do something with it besides check off names as they attempt to blow shit up. Once again, it was mostly up to civilians to save themselves, and the pre-flight security song-and-dance was so much nonsense.

I won't pretend to understand all the nuances of anyone's mind, least of all a terrorist's, but I imagine it is, at least in part, to raise awareness.
If someone wants to "raise awareness," they should wear some color ribbon on their shirt, not attempt to slaughter innocents that have nothing to do with the (perceived) troubles back home.

I don't think you mean to sound as though you're defending terrorism. Any increased attention on the world stage hardly justifies the lives lost. Whatever the goal or effectiveness, the actions remain indefensible. Especially in this case, when the perpetrator appears at first glance to be some young, stupid, wannabe revolutionary.

What's more, it would be more effective to wage a campaign of kindness, anyway. Terrorism may get you attention, but most of that attention is the wish-you-were-dead kind. If you want to sway Americans to decrease involvement, get them on your side. (More of them than those who would be on your side anyway.)

Edit:
Wasn't trying to snipe at you personally, so I apologize if it came off antagonistic. Just a heated issue, I suppose.

Arphahat

12-27-2009, 04:38 PM

What's more, it would be more effective to wage a campaign of kindness, anyway. Terrorism may get you attention, but most of that attention is the wish-you-were-dead kind. If you want to sway Americans to decrease involvement, get them on your side. (More of them than those who would be on your side anyway.)

It is this part I cannot get past. I consider myself to be a rational and reasoning person, but my initial reaction to this shit is "nuke 'em all", not "give a fuck what their issues are". Is that really their goal? Dunno, but maybe me not understanding is part of why I'm not some extremist / terrorist.

Generation ABXY

12-27-2009, 04:40 PM

Yeah yeah, I get it. Let's stop any anti-police state speeches before they start. But you don't land on that list by running a yellow light, do you? A more thorough search wouldn't land us in the realm of big brother, and in this case would have found the material in the guy's drawers.

Oh, I understand where you're coming from, believe me...of course, that's easy for me to say, knowing how it ends. Personally, I imagine the person who does actually make the decision probably worries more about covering their ass...

If someone wants to "raise awareness," they should wear some color ribbon on their shirt, not attempt to slaughter innocents that have nothing to do with your (perceived) troubles back home.

I don't think you mean to sound as though you're defending terrorism. Any increased attention on the world stage hardly justifies the lives lost. Whatever the goal or effectiveness, the actions remain indefensible. Especially in this case, when the perpetrator appears at first glance to be some young, stupid, wannabe revolutionary.

What's more, it would be more effective to wage a campaign of kindness, anyway. Terrorism may get you attention, but most of that attention is the wish-you-were-dead kind. If you want to sway Americans to decrease involvement, get them on your side. (More of them than those who would be on your side anyway.)

Given that I've yet to blow up anyone (including myself) for a cause, I think we're on the same page. ;)

However, even if most wish you were dead, that still leaves the few. Neither group was likely paying much attention to you in the first place, even as you suffered under those perceived wrongs, so you haven't got much to lose. I mean, sure, they could turn their full force on you, but that both draws attention and expends more resources, so even that has its advantages.

As for who they attack...well, it’s a question of whether or not our ignorance makes us truly innocent or just as culpable. It seems they’ve made up their minds.

Vigil80

12-27-2009, 05:27 PM

As for who they attack...well, it’s a question of whether or not our ignorance makes us truly innocent or just as culpable. It seems they’ve made up their minds.
I can see the (strained) logic in most of what you're saying, except for this. This just sounds like almost Greek-style tragic B.S. Nevermind the whole country, the people just on that plane had more immediate concerns than what may or may not be happening in some dustbowl on the other side of the planet, and noone has the right to expect them to behave otherwise. Certainly they don't deserve to be put in mortal danger because of it.

Ignorance seems like an overly pejorative term when you're describing facts that a group of people not only may not be aware of, but shouldn't have to be aware of, can't do anything about, and wouldn't otherwise be affected by if someone wasn't trying to set them on fire over it.

What you're essentially describing is the global equivalent of a child's temper tantrums, only on an astronomically larger, more dangerous scale. "Pay attention to me! Or die!" Once again, even though I can see some of the academic sense in what you're saying, fuck that.

Generation ABXY

12-27-2009, 05:35 PM

I can see the (strained) logic in most of what you're saying, except for this. This just sounds like almost Greek-style tragic B.S. Nevermind the whole country, the people just on that plane had more immediate concerns than what may or may not be happening in some dustbowl on the other side of the planet, and noone has the right to expect them to behave otherwise. Certainly they don't deserve to be put in mortal danger because of it.

If it’s any consolation at all, I certainly don’t subscribe to it – I’m trying to understand it as much as anyone, so it's quite possible I'm talking out of my ass here.

What you're essentially describing is the global equivalent of a child's temper tantrums, only on an astronomically larger, more dangerous scale. "Pay attention to me! Or die!" Once again, even though I can see some of the academic sense in what you're saying, fuck that.

I don't know if that's entirely inaccurate. Often times, people think they’re completely justified in their heinous acts.

Hawkzombie

12-27-2009, 06:39 PM

And this is why I drive everywhere.

OUX

12-27-2009, 07:33 PM

And this is why I drive everywhere.

You do realize you are far more likely to be hit by a drunk driver than blown up on a plane right? Like the difference between getting hit with lightning and hit with rain.

ShivaX

12-27-2009, 08:56 PM

You do realize you are far more likely to be hit by a drunk driver than blown up on a plane right? Like the difference between getting hit with lightning and hit with rain.

In fact your chances of getting blown up on a plane are less than being struck by lightning. Or just about anything else. Its not like planes are exploding left and right every week. In fact I can't remember any airliner bombing post Lockerbie (1988).

National Kato

12-28-2009, 09:12 AM

As expected, the TSA is instituting some kneejerk new rules that do more to make the travel experience unpleasant than to protect this kind of thing from happening again.

TSA Exec: "Alright Jenkins, give me the details and make it quick. I'm putting out fires left and right here."

Jenkins: "'Putting out fires,' sir?"

TSA Exec: "Firgure of speech, Jenkins."

Jenkins: "Yes, sir. Well, this Nigerian man tried to ignite some explosives that were hidden in his lap during the last hour of flight. He stood up when it malfunctioned and--"

TSA Exec: "Right. New Rules: no items allowed on passengers' laps during the last hour of flight. And no standing. Are you writing this down, Jenkins?"

Jenkins: "Yes, sir. Also, it should be said that there was another passenger on the same flight who was in the lavatory for quite some time. This caused some alarm when he wouldn't come out, but it ended up only being food poiso--"

TSA Exec: "Right. New Rules: no using the bathroom in the last hour of flight without a chaperone. Damned terrorists and their figgy pudding"

Jenkins: "Just the last hour of flight, sir? What if an attempt is made at the start of the flight or sometimes prior to the last hour? Won't it make more sense to focus on security prior to boar--"

TSA Exec: "When did these events occur, Jenkins?"

Jenkins: "Approximately during the last hour of flight, sir."

TSA Exec: "Right. Problem solved."

JayK47

12-28-2009, 09:27 AM

Rather than take responsibility for failed security, we passengers will take it up the ass, yet again. It was a complete failure that this guy was even allowed to board a plain. What kind of warning do these douche bags need anyways? The security guy from Harold and Kumar must actually work for the TSA. I can avoid flying well enough when it comes to vacations. But I have to fly for work. I can't stand flying as it is. It will keep getting worse and worse because security gets more and more retarded.

Ink Asylum

12-28-2009, 09:49 AM

Stat-junkie Nate Silver of FiveThirtyEight.com crunches the numbers. (http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2009/12/odds-of-airborne-terror.html) He counts six air-terrorism attempts in the US in the past decade (The four 9/11 planes, the shoe-bomber, and the underwear-bomber).

Over the past decade, according to BTS, there have been 99,320,309 commercial airline departures that either originated or landed within the United States. Dividing by six, we get one terrorist incident per 16,553,385 departures.

These departures flew a collective 69,415,786,000 miles. That means there has been one terrorist incident per 11,569,297,667 mles flown. This distance is equivalent to 1,459,664 trips around the diameter of the Earth, 24,218 round trips to the Moon, or two round trips to Neptune.

Assuming an average airborne speed of 425 miles per hour, these airplanes were aloft for a total of 163,331,261 hours. Therefore, there has been one terrorist incident per 27,221,877 hours airborne. This can also be expressed as one incident per 1,134,245 days airborne, or one incident per 3,105 years airborne.

There were a total of 674 passengers, not counting crew or the terrorists themselves, on the flights on which these incidents occurred. By contrast, there have been 7,015,630,000 passenger enplanements over the past decade. Therefore, the odds of being on given departure which is the subject of a terrorist incident have been 1 in 10,408,947 over the past decade. By contrast, the odds of being struck by lightning in a given year are about 1 in 500,000. This means that you could board 20 flights per year and still be less likely to be the subject of an attempted terrorist attack than to be struck by lightning.

boratika

12-28-2009, 09:57 AM

ShivaX

12-28-2009, 10:00 AM

I mean really when the odds are 1 in 10 million of an incident those are pretty good odds for anything.

boratika

12-28-2009, 10:16 AM

I mean really when the odds are 1 in 10 million of an incident those are pretty good odds for anything.

Not if you are trying to win...:p

Kielaran

12-28-2009, 11:25 AM

I am pretty sure that this man's father contacted me the other day about an inheritence owed to me if I can only cover the taxes.

ShivaX

12-28-2009, 11:41 AM

Not if you are trying to win...:p

Its a hell of a lot better than the powerball. :D

Narradisall

12-28-2009, 03:47 PM

Due to no standing, you can't access anything in the overhead. Thankfully, I had a good magazine with me, but all I had aside from that was a Kindle.

Aren't Kindles battery powered?

So all they need to do is make a Kindlebomb and your travel will be complete.

I'm glad I don't air travel much, I have no tollerence for this bullshit, I thought taking shoes of was just plain silly.

I do like how he keeps getting refered to as a "UK Student" when he was refused a student VISA in the UK because the university he claimed to be attending 'didn't exist'.

ShivaX

12-28-2009, 04:08 PM

See I think the solution is fairly easy here:

His name was one of about 550,000 in the Terrorist Identities Datamart Environment database, known as TIDE, which is maintained by the U.S. National Counterterrorism Center. Inclusion in that database does not trigger mandatory additional airport screening. TIDE is the largest collection of names, and U.S. intelligence and law enforcement as well as trusted allies can nominate "known or suspected terrorists" for this database

How about people we know or suspect to be terrorists get a little extra look at when they try to get on a plane? I know. Its a crazy idea. We should totally stick with our current method of randomly making grandmothers take off their shoes.

Hawkzombie

12-28-2009, 04:41 PM

You do realize you are far more likely to be hit by a drunk driver than blown up on a plane right? Like the difference between getting hit with lightning and hit with rain.

I just hate flying. I'm using this as my excuse other than 'I hate flying' :p

Widgetcraft

12-28-2009, 04:56 PM

See I think the solution is fairly easy here:

How about people we know or suspect to be terrorists get a little extra look at when they try to get on a plane? I know. Its a crazy idea. We should totally stick with our current method of randomly making grandmothers take off their shoes.

Wasn't a widely known CNN reporter placed onto that list at one point? If that is what I'm thinking of, I think one problem might be that it is apparently easy to get put on that list.

ShivaX

12-28-2009, 06:51 PM

Wasn't a widely known CNN reporter placed onto that list at one point? If that is what I'm thinking of, I think one problem might be that it is apparently easy to get put on that list.

Who cares? Its better than having a list and not using it for anything in my book. I mean they already randomly search anyone for no reason, might as well search people who we might have a reason to search.

I mean if you're going to have a list of "suspected terrorists" and then do nothing with it, what was the point of having the fucking list? If you want to tweak what gets you on the list, then so be it. As far as I'm concerned we should almost be to where we're searching people on the list and noone else. If you get flagged for the list, write your congressman and complain or something. Then maybe I can drink a Pepsi in flight.

Hemalin

12-28-2009, 10:58 PM

See I think the solution is fairly easy here:

How about people we know or suspect to be terrorists get a little extra look at when they try to get on a plane? I know. Its a crazy idea. We should totally stick with our current method of randomly making grandmothers take off their shoes.
Didn't he get on the plane in Nigeria? How do these lists work with foreign countries? Does the US have people around the world doing screenings?

Narradisall

12-29-2009, 05:40 AM

At this rate, they'd probably get a better death toll just taking a large vest bomb and blowing it up while IN the security line, since, you know, everyone in the airport is going to be waiting in those lines.

Ink Asylum

12-29-2009, 06:18 AM

Narradisall

12-29-2009, 06:21 AM

Seriously. Not to give any terrorists ideas, but it wouldn't be hard to kill dozens, even hundreds, of people without ever once going through a security checkpoint. Just go to any major city and find a densely populated spot during the morning or evening rush. No matter what security measures we put in place it's next to impossible to prevent terrorist attacks.

Yeah, that was kind of my point. I don't get why they are so hung up on the planes thing. Sure you might get some epic collateral damage of the plane crashing, but there's probably more people packed in line at an airport (prior to that point security is non-existant) or in your everyday train station rush hour than the 200 people on a plane and 50-100 people below you might get.

I don't think terrorists visit CoG (Canadians don't count right?), but yeah, not giving idea's so I'll stop now.

Ink Asylum

12-29-2009, 06:27 AM

Well, 9/11 was a co-ordinated and successful plot that clearly did more damage than any terrorist attack pulled off on the ground probably could have done. Since then there have only been two averted plane bombings and both were apparently done by independent terrorists who were probably just copying what Al Qaeda did.

I'll make the grim prediction that if America sees another co-ordinated terrorist attack on our home soil in the next decade it definitely won't be on a plane. While we're wasting millions trying to strip search every passenger they'll take advantage of lax security somewhere on the ground.

Narradisall

12-29-2009, 11:45 AM

Yeah but 9/11 was a fairly original idea. As a result aircraft are argueably more secure from the same thing. As you say in the second paragraph, they'd be more successful trying something 'different' than trying to repeat 9/11 with the same weapons.

Ink Asylum

12-29-2009, 11:51 AM

Sadly, our anti-terrorism methods are far too focused on preventing a repeat of yesterday's attack than trying to figure out what they'll do differently tomorrow.

ShivaX

12-29-2009, 04:43 PM

Didn't he get on the plane in Nigeria? How do these lists work with foreign countries? Does the US have people around the world doing screenings?

And then he went through Belgium iirc.

And yes, the US does have people around the world doing screenings. Otherwise you couldn't allow planes from another country to ever enter your airspace. Not to mention every other country also has their security and so on.

Its not like a pack of terrorists can just board a plane in some African nation and fly into the US without getting checked. Otherwise we'd be hearing about a plane exploding every other week.

Shrinn

12-29-2009, 05:56 PM

RandoM51

12-30-2009, 08:34 AM

You do realize you are far more likely to be hit by a drunk driver than blown up on a plane right? Like the difference between getting hit with lightning and hit with rain.

The TSA doesn't make me take my shoes off each time I drive somewhere. At least in the NE there is pretty good rail service so most of the BS can be avoided.

Reviewing how America has changed during the past decade I'd say terrorism is highly effective.

Generation ABXY

12-30-2009, 11:41 AM

Reviewing how America has changed during the past decade I'd say terrorism is highly effective.

Indeed. And if, as some suggest, they truly have qualms with our freedom, one could argue they're waging a pretty effective war against it, too.

diablopath

12-30-2009, 04:32 PM

Yeah, that was kind of my point. I don't get why they are so hung up on the planes thing. Sure you might get some epic collateral damage of the plane crashing, but there's probably more people packed in line at an airport (prior to that point security is non-existant) or in your everyday train station rush hour than the 200 people on a plane and 50-100 people below you might get.

I don't think terrorists visit CoG (Canadians don't count right?), but yeah, not giving idea's so I'll stop now.

Because Al Qaeda hasn't though about this already.
I think if they could easily get personnel into America and obtain bomb supplies, there would've been plenty of bombings in the past decade at sporting events, malls, even some military installations, etc. It's probably much easier for them to attempt to smuggle something on a plane than anything else.

And if they were to find some kind of steady success like that, well, I imagine they'd seriously fuck the country.

alienmastermind

12-30-2009, 06:37 PM

Yeah, someone pointed this out. This was a failure of foreign security, not ours. And, apparently, according to the description of the event, a Netherlander passenger hammered his flaming crotch with a fist, like Rickson Gracie in the kimura.

Fuck yes, everyone wants to destroy these people, even laid back Hollanders. :)

Deadend

12-31-2009, 01:38 AM

I see the odds, but the thing that isn't taken into account when debunking the security that stops the attacks of yesterday are how many attacks were thwarted and deterred just by the thought of the heightened security presence. Sure they may have caught x and let y through, but how many were scared out of trying in the first place?

Scared out of trying? Dude.. these are guys who are BLOWING THEMSELVES UP to scare people. And the thwarted attacks are talked about, as the anti-terror groups are dying for press.

The TSA is also an epic failure, their emergency counter-measures are worthless, they didn't stop a guy from smuggling explosives and they have failed all the times people have checked them.

Hell, the no-fly list is utter shit. What is this about not being able to get someone on the no-fly list? I thought the problem was that it was too easy to be on the no-fly list and never be taken off?

Fucking incompetent system run by assholes.

Narradisall

12-31-2009, 05:07 AM

Because Al Qaeda hasn't though about this already.

Yet how many sucessful airplane bombings have their been in the last 9 years?

They were more sucessful attempting to car bomb a UK airport.

You don't hammer a defense at the strongest point repeatedly in hoping to get through, you find a weak spot and strike. 9/11 was finding such a spot, but that window has since closed.

I don't mind if they keep doing it, since they keep getting caught and now we get naked scanners, woo!

Shrinn

12-31-2009, 07:25 AM

Scared out of trying? Dude.. these are guys who are BLOWING THEMSELVES UP to scare people. And the thwarted attacks are talked about, as the anti-terror groups are dying for press.

I imagine if you want to die for a cause, getting stopped and going to prison must feel pretty shitty.

diablopath

12-31-2009, 03:54 PM

Yet how many sucessful airplane bombings have their been in the last 9 years?

They were more sucessful attempting to car bomb a UK airport.

You don't hammer a defense at the strongest point repeatedly in hoping to get through, you find a weak spot and strike. 9/11 was finding such a spot, but that window has since closed.

I don't mind if they keep doing it, since they keep getting caught and now we get naked scanners, woo!

My point was that thus far, it still seems to be the most viable way of them killing American civilians. At the very least, introducing a little fear. I wouldn't call it successful, but they haven't been able to really come close to doing anything else on our soil.

Narradisall

01-01-2010, 11:05 AM

Fair enough.

Till they get nukes at least....

RandoM51

01-01-2010, 11:51 AM

Fair enough.

Till they get nukes at least....

It is 5 minutes to midnight! (http://www.thebulletin.org/content/doomsday-clock/timeline)

OUX

01-01-2010, 11:55 AM

My point was that thus far, it still seems to be the most viable way of them killing American civilians.

The most viable way to kill Americans would to invest their money into a Alcohol, Tobacco, and Cheese lobby.

RandoM51

01-01-2010, 12:16 PM

The most viable way to kill Americans would to invest their money into a Alcohol, Tobacco, and Cheese lobby.

I think you're doing a disservice to cheese with that one.

Kind of amazed nobody has hit the water supply of a major urban center yet. There aren't enough DEP police---not that I think it is simply a matter of increasing the number of people patrolling---to keep a determined individual/group from putting something nasty into the reservoir system that keeps NYC supplied.