VGA Announcements: Arkham Asylum 2, Force Unleashed 2 & More

[DoctorFinger]

Spike TV held their annual Video Game Awards today, and amidst the back patting and performances, there were some reveals and announcements made. We'll have more on these as the weekend progresses, but here's a quick snapshot of what was unveiled.

- First up is a bit of a no-brainer (http://www.joystiq.com/2009/12/12/batman-arkham-asylum-2-announced-at-the-vgas/#continued). Rocksteady Studios going back to the Bat with Batman: Arkham Asylum 2. The teaser video shows a decrepit Joker lording over a Gotham City under siege. No release window was given for the game, and the teaser was cinematics only, no gameplay.

- The new Star Wars game (http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3177286) Spike and Lucasarts were teasing was in fact Star Wars: The Force Unleashed 2. The sequel will once again follow the adventures of Starkiller, the former secret apprentice of Darth Vader.

- A teaser for Halo: Reach was shown. The video showed multiple Spartans - including a female - discussing a fallen comrade. This one is coming in late 2010 (http://www.joystiq.com/2009/12/12/halo-reach-gameplay-premieres-with-multiple-spartans-and-some-l/#continued).

- MTV and Harmonix (http://www.joystiq.com/2009/12/12/mtv-teases-green-day-rock-band/) announced Green Day: Rock Band

- The glow-tastic Tron Evolutions was announced with a Holiday 2010 release date. This will likely bridge the gap between the original (http://www.joystiq.com/2009/12/12/tron-evolution-premieres-at-vgas-coming-holiday-2010/) film and the upcoming sequel.

- Finally we got the first in-game footage from the new, Afghanistan-set Medal of Honor game.

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[Abyssion]

Based on both endings for The Force Unleashed I'm wondering how there can be a sequel. But I guess I'll have to see the trailer first!

[Aggort]

Based on both endings for The Force Unleashed I'm wondering how there can be a sequel. But I guess I'll have to see the trailer first!

I was thinking the same thing. Gotta be a new storyline completely!

[Xerxes]

Based on both endings for The Force Unleashed I'm wondering how there can be a sequel. But I guess I'll have to see the trailer first!

My thoughts. The tech was great, story was pretty good; the design of some of the levels not so much; back tracking actually.

OMG I want to psychically attack everyone at Lucasarts. Jedi Knight: Jedi Academy 2 you assholes. Shit it's not that hard. :mad: People might not like it but I keep imaging co-op with like Kyle in the Obi-Wan master role.

Medal of Honor actually looked pretty good.

Batman: Arkham Asylum 2, bleh. I was hoping for Batman: Gotham City.

Reach looks to deliver what I want.

[ThievesAmongUs]

More Batman ? Oh, hell yes !! As for Medal of Honor, I'll need to see how they plan to distinguish it from Modern Warfare, to know if it'll work or not. Force Unleashed 2 ? I heard both good and bad things about the first (which probably means I need to play it), so I'm split on this.

[inmostlight]

Batman: Arkham Asylum 2, bleh. I was hoping for Batman: Gotham City.

They didn't give an actual title, but it sure looked like it took place in Gotham. The official website (arkhamhasmoved.com (http://arkhamhasmoved.com/)) also indicates it won't be in the same place.

And the trailer for Force Unleashed 2 sure as heck appeared to be Starkiller from the first game.

[Hawkzombie]

I need a new pair of pants after Batman's announcement. My crotch is all sticky.

[Psykoboy2]

The official website (arkhamhasmoved.com (http://arkhamhasmoved.com/)) also indicates it won't be in the same place.

Hmm...that looks a bit like Two-Face on the billboard there.

[Xerxes]

They didn't give an actual title, but it sure looked like it took place in Gotham. The official website (arkhamhasmoved.com (http://arkhamhasmoved.com/)) also indicates it won't be in the same place.

Hopefully that's not the name. I don't know why but I think that annoys me more than if it does take place in Arkham. :p
COD: Modern Warfare 2 annoys me so much.

Hmm...that looks a bit like Two-Face on the billboard there.

It is and I love Two Face. He's like... the second best. ^_^

[Suave Peanut]

Yeah, the game is not called Arkham Asylum 2. The trailer is very clearly moving away from the asylum and into the city. I would not at all be surprised if it were to be called Batman: Gotham City.

[Ondo]

Batman: Arkham Asylum 2, bleh. I was hoping for Batman: Gotham City.
Personally, I want Batman: Wayne Manor.

[inmostlight]

No matter what the game is called, it's a day one purchase for me. Arkham Asylum was some of the most fun I've had gaming all year.

[Zecon]

Jesus, Mike Tyson has let himself go.

[Spigot]

Based on both endings for The Force Unleashed I'm wondering how there can be a sequel. But I guess I'll have to see the trailer first!That's the first thing I thought. I like Starkiller and the story of TFU as a whole (the gameplay left a lot to be desired) but I can't see how you can have more adventures with the guy...

Sign me up for some more Batman. Took it into work tonight and it made me want to play through again myself...

[Widgetcraft]

Yeah, the game is not called Arkham Asylum 2. The trailer is very clearly moving away from the asylum and into the city. I would not at all be surprised if it were to be called Batman: Gotham City.

As J Arcane pointed out in another thread: It looks a lot like the No Man's Land story event that happened earlier this decade. Basically, in that story Gotham is rocked by a large earthquake, villains escape from Arkham, and the city goes to hell. Wayne Manor is destroyed, and Batman disappears. He reappears later, and begins to take back the city, forming alliances with other Gotham heroes and even a few villains.

It is a very good story, though extremely long, and I really hope that this is based on it. But I'll take whatever I can get :)

[Mike Kelehan]

Personally, I want Batman: Wayne Manor.

I think we're more likely to see Wayne Manor be more like Croft Manor in the Tomb Raiders, where you can use it to try out your abilities in between missions.

[Codicier]

It is and I love Two Face. He's like... the second best. ^_^

Is he? Or is he twice as good? ;) (See what I did there?)

Seriously excited for the game though.

[Ink Asylum]

Regarding Batman, it looks like they might have temporarily relocated Arkham's prisoners into a Gotham location, probably in order to fix the island after the events in the first game. That obviously doesn't go well.

[ThievesAmongUs]

I think we're more likely to see Wayne Manor be more like Croft Manor in the Tomb Raiders, where you can use it to try out your abilities in between missions.
Makes sense, Wayne Manor is *in* Gotham (but not in the city per-se).

Regarding Batman, it looks like they might have temporarily relocated Arkham's prisoners into a Gotham location, probably in order to fix the island after the events in the first game. That obviously doesn't go well.
Obviously they have learned nothing since THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT THEY DID IN THE FIRST GAME !

[BLeeP]

As J Arcane pointed out in another thread: It looks a lot like the No Man's Land story event that happened earlier this decade. Basically, in that story Gotham is rocked by a large earthquake, villains escape from Arkham, and the city goes to hell. Wayne Manor is destroyed, and Batman disappears. He reappears later, and begins to take back the city, forming alliances with other Gotham heroes and even a few villains.

It is a very good story, though extremely long, and I really hope that this is based on it. But I'll take whatever I can get :)

Came in here to post this. It seems they will be borrowing from Batman: Cataclysm for this. Lets hope they keep the Batman/Bane team-up intact!

[Loki]

Oh god. Green Day: Rock Band? Really?

[Xerxes]

59928
Well this happened.

[Adam Blue]

I'm very excited about True Crime. The first still contains gameplay mechanics yet to be mimicked in other sandbox games. Though, the game is being made by United Front Games and not Luxoflux. I did see carjacking while driving, and if they add the other element from Wheelman (ramming with the right stick), this game should be legendary....well, if he's still a cop. But he's not in the US obviously so we'll just see how that affects gameplay (good/bad).

[Xerxes]

59825

He doesn't look right. That just in the cinematic too. O_o

[Xerxes]

I'm very excited about True Crime. The first still contains gameplay mechanics yet to be mimicked in other sandbox games. Though, the game is being made by United Front Games and not Luxoflux. I did see carjacking while driving, and if they add the other element from Wheelman (ramming with the right stick), this game should be legendary....well, if he's still a cop. But he's not in the US obviously so we'll just see how that affects gameplay (good/bad).

Seeing as they have a thing for real high profile cities, I'm assuming it's in Shanghai this time.
59930

[Xerxes]

59821
This one is just to see if any of you know that song. Sounds like Bjork.

[Xerxes]

59817

59827

59815

[Karak]

59821
This one is just to see if any of you know that song. Sounds like Bjork.

I don't know the song but man that looks A-MAZING.
Lots of cool looking stuff tonight on the show.

[Karak]

Reach looks to deliver what I want.

Ya if the lighting and such are like that in the game. I am all over it. I don't trust trailers too much anymore. But I dug the look of it what they showed.

[Xerxes]

Ya if the lighting and such are like that in the game. I am all over it. I don't trust trailers too much anymore. But I dug the look of it what they showed.

Yeah.... Bungie has lied before. I mean if only they captured the mood from the past trailers and commercials in the actual fucking game.

[Psykoboy2]

I'm guessing this new PoP is a movie tie-in....cause, you know, there's a quite a cliffhanger they left in the most recent game.

[Suave Peanut]

I thought we already knew that it was a movie tie-in, and the proper sequel is in the works for 2011?

[carnage11]

I just saw the True Crime trailer, it looks pretty sweet. I really enjoyed the first one. I never got into True Crime NY. But the first one was fun.

[Mike Kelehan]

Oh god. Green Day: Rock Band? Really?

Why not? My guess is, unlike Beatles, this will be fully exportable, since they don't have legen(wait for it)dary licensing hurdles to jump through.

[Psykoboy2]

I thought we already knew that it was a movie tie-in, and the proper sequel is in the works for 2011?

You know, you're right! Whenever they originally said it would tie-in with Sands Of Time, I was thinking the very first game...turns out, I guess they meant the film.

[Xerxes]

You know, you're right! Whenever they originally said it would tie-in with Sands Of Time, I was thinking the very first game...turns out, I guess they meant the film.

Probably made by Ubi Shanghai. :D

[Karak]

Yeah.... Bungie has lied before. I mean if only they captured the mood from the past trailers and commercials in the actual fucking game.

Ya they all have. I can't remember the last time I felt that what I was seeing in a trailer that early was actually going to be gameplay.

Those leaked pics last month looked pretty close to the trailer so maybe it's all the same.

Oh and put me down as +1 for the new True Crime. As discussed a month or so ago in another thread, I enjoyed the two other games even as broken as they were.

[Press Ninja]

Ya they all have. I can't remember the last time I felt that what I was seeing in a trailer that early was actually going to be gameplay.

Those leaked pics last month looked pretty close to the trailer so maybe it's all the same.

Oh and put me down as +1 for the new True Crime. As discussed a month or so ago in another thread, I enjoyed the two other games even as broken as they were.

I forgot where I saw it, I think on Twitter, but they said that was supposed to be in game footage... I need to find who said that

[ThievesAmongUs]

Came in here to post this. It seems they will be borrowing from Batman: Cataclysm for this. Lets hope they keep the Batman/Bane team-up intact!

Hm... ran through the Wikipedia article on this and it makes no mention of that fact. (Though we all know how reliable Wikipedia can be) Still it would be a interesting time if it was in the game; the earthquake would make for a good set-up to a Joker and co. escape from the events of the first game.

[Karak]

I forgot where I saw it, I think on Twitter, but they said that was supposed to be in game footage... I need to find who said that

Many many people have. Including Geoff K, but that doesn't mean anything at all whatsoever. They have said that line in so many trailers its stupid.

Then again, thinking that the 360 wouldn't show some serious improvement over the years like other systems did/do, is sort of dumb. So it's also totally possible this will be that good. I watched it 2-3 times and each time I see more and more I like. The foliage and the little minute animations are done really well.
But things like the snow capped peaks in the background loosing snow to heavy winds, and all the close up dust make me think there is some serious touch-ups at the very least.

[The Iron Weasel]

Fuck I hope Halo: Reach has a new engine.

[BLeeP]

Hm... ran through the Wikipedia article on this and it makes no mention of that fact. (Though we all know how reliable Wikipedia can be) Still it would be a interesting time if it was in the game; the earthquake would make for a good set-up to a Joker and co. escape from the events of the first game.

Huh, I'm not finding any mention of it either. It is talked about briefly in Bane's own wikipedia entry.

And here is this awesome cover:

http://www.coverbrowser.com/image/detective-comics/738-1.jpg

[Wilkz07]

medal of honor looks cool, a little cartoony (might have been because its 2am when i watched it). I'll definately give it a ps3 go when its out.

Force Unleashed 2? Wonder how they'll set up the story. I killed Vader when I played it.

Another Halo? When will the madness end? When!? lol, i kid, halo is cool. if you are a kid.

[Karak]

When!? lol, i kid, halo is cool. if you are a kid.

At heart...a kid at heart.

[Superman's Dead]

True Crime next gen woooooooooooo!

Cataclysm!?! More like ORGASCLYSM!

[Hawkzombie]

True Crime next gen woooooooooooo!

Cataclysm!?! More like ORGASCLYSM!

<3

Bane after the whole Knight Fall and breaking of the bat storylines has actually evolved into a rather redeemable character (Especially in Simone's run of Secret Six...awesome stuff there). However, the way he is in the game, it might be hard...he was driven mad by the venom BUT he was still out on a vengeance path for Batman. Even in the comics he maintains a slight control whenever he juices up.

If anything, it looks like a section of the city is blocked off BECAUSE of Arkham Asylum...Dunno why they have the gates there, but it looks more like the inmates that were Xfered there and such got OFF the island and into the main city proper...Either that or it's exactly like someone said and they moved the people from the island to the city :p

All I know is if there's nothing to do with Crime Alley in the game, I'm one sad Panda.

[muddi900]

59821
This one is just to see if any of you know that song. Sounds like Bjork.

That does sound like bjork. And it looks fantastic!

Crackdown 2 trailer on the other hand looks like ass.

Also, there's no way in hell Reach looks that good on the 360. The 6 player co-op looks cool.

[muddi900]

Bane after the whole Knight Fall and breaking of the bat storylines has actually evolved into a rather redeemable character (Especially in Simone's run of Secret Six...awesome stuff there)

No its not. Secret Six has proven that any book with Bane is an unenjoyable mess, even i its well written. Also, Animal Man could never beat Batman. :P

[MagGnome]

I'm downloading Batman: AA on my new rig as we speak! I'm looking forward to finally playing it. Thanks again to National Kato for doing the great giveaway where I won the game! :)

[andru]

Seeing as they have a thing for real high profile cities, I'm assuming it's in Shanghai this time.
59930

This looks like Hong Kong. The Chinese quote is in Cantonese, the cars drive on the left side of the road, and the general look of the lights and the written characters are traditional, not simplified like on the mainland.

If anything, the feel of the game looks like they might be basing it on the HK movie Infernal Affairs, (which is was what Scorscese's The Departed remade). Sounds pretty cool to me, might be good.

[menage]

Wow, I go to sleep and suddenly, bam, shitloads of new games.

Batman is a no brainer, although a different lead enemy would have been cool as well.

MoH looks awesome, shame I'll never play it cause I'm done with even trying to play wargames.

Crackdown 2 doesn't seem that hot, and nobody here talking about it (apart from a it looks crap remark somewhere) after the praise 1 got is kinda telling.

True Crime could be new Jet Li movie like this, hope the gameplay is actually worth a damn.

[muddi900]

Well, to be fair, I didn't like the first Crackdown. It was an exercise in bad design.

[menage]

I never played it really, cause co-op seemed to be it's core and the demo bored me after 10 minutes. But for game got a lot of praise from some, especially the orbhunting and co-op.

EDITL

Reach looks gray, the only thing I ever liked about Halo is that it wasn't.

PoP looks crap.

[Zecon]

I've watched the reach trailer a few times, and it looks good, damn good.
6 player co-op will be amazing.
and the trailer does look like those leaked screenshots. So it might be all in game, which in that case, then they have definitely used a new engine for it.
Crackdown 2 did look like it would be fun, if just to blow stuff up in crazy ways.
Medal of Honor actually looked pretty good, graphics wise, but we'll see how it turns out. Are they using the frostbite engine for it, too?

[Gorvi]

The Crackdown 2 trailer was pretty disappointing, it looked exactly like the first game, only now you wear armor (and glide, which was kinda cool) and there's mutated zombies. Otherwise nothing stood out to me at all from the show.

[Rock Bandit]

HMX press release confirms GD:RB will be exportable. Rent, burn, return, move on; just like I did with L:RB.

[bapenguin]

I thought that Spec Ops game looked the most interesting.

[The Iron Weasel]

Also, there's no way in hell Reach looks that good on the 360. The 6 player co-op looks cool.

I don't think it looked any better than Gears 2, or Modern Warfare 2.... I don't see why there's "no way in hell" it looks that good.

[Telefrog]

The Crackdown 2 trailer was pretty disappointing, it looked exactly like the first game, only now you wear armor (and glide, which was kinda cool) and there's mutated zombies. Otherwise nothing stood out to me at all from the show.

What was disappointing to you is perfect for me and my kids. Crackdown is the household favorite here. Zombies, larger co-op, gliding, laser weapons, zip lines, and an actual story this time? Sign me up!

Halo Reach looked like more Halo. IE - A super overdramatic cinematic that has shit-all to do with the gameplay. I'll get it because I think Bungie has just about perfected the Halo-style gunplay, but I'm not expecting anything monumentally different. Hell, I wouldn't expect MS to allow them to screw with the bestselling formula.

Rock Band Green Day? So, Harmonix/MTV gave up did they? Going the Activision route?

[Iron Past]

Well, I'm excited for Crackdown 2 on principle, though that trailer did nothing to further it. Obviously, the point was to simply show some gameplay and drive home that it does have multiplayer. Also looked like an early build (at least I hope so). I'm curious whether that character is indeed the only skin or they just didn't put any others in there since they haven't shown them yet. Also, MS putting out a trailer with the words, "Would you like to blow shit up with me?" is priceless.

BTW, there is absolutely no reason Halo: Reach can't look that good, as it's been built on an entirely new engine (I think). In-engine cinematics are usually cleaned up, but the only reason to completely dismiss the game this early is if you're just trying to hate it. Then again, it is Halo.

[Adam Blue]

Also, there's no way in hell Reach looks that good on the 360. The 6 player co-op looks cool.

It didn't look good. It looked like an in-game engine tweaked visually to come off as a CGI cinematic. Textures, animation, lighting...too poor for CGI.

But it looks good for what we may see as an in-game engine.

[Widgetcraft]

Crackdown 2 doesn't seem that hot, and nobody here talking about it (apart from a it looks crap remark somewhere) after the praise 1 got is kinda telling.

Some people praise Crackdown (people like me), and it took a long time for it to gather any kind of following at all. For quite a while it was known the game that came with the Halo 3 beta. Personally, I found it to be one of the few examples of a proper action sandbox game this generation, but that is just me.

[Superman's Dead]

This looks like Hong Kong. The Chinese quote is in Cantonese, the cars drive on the left side of the road, and the general look of the lights and the written characters are traditional, not simplified like on the mainland.

If anything, the feel of the game looks like they might be basing it on the HK movie Infernal Affairs, (which is was what Scorscese's The Departed remade). Sounds pretty cool to me, might be good.

The main character of the first game was Chinese; one of the endings had, no joke, a dude transforming into a dragon that I'm pretty sure you had to fight. So it makes sense.

I can imagine all the tweaks they could do for a Cataclysm game, even if this one ain't it. You could have the very GTA:SA task of spraypainting over enemy tags, for starters...

[Spigot]

Well, to be fair, I didn't like the first Crackdown. It was an exercise in bad design.You stop that. You stop that right now. Why do you have to be so mean?!?

[Adam Blue]

The main character of the first game was Chinese; one of the endings had, no joke, a dude transforming into a dragon that I'm pretty sure you had to fight. So it makes sense.

I can imagine all the tweaks they could do for a Cataclysm game, even if this one ain't it. You could have the very GTA:SA task of spraypainting over enemy tags, for starters...

I hope it's the same dude, Nick Kang, but the voice sounded different. His original voice actor was pretty awesome (I looked it up, Russell Wong....how about that).

But like I said, different developer so I can't get too excited.

The problem with Sandbox games are there are a bunch that each have a neat gameplay mechanic that I wish would all come together for one game. This game could possibly do it. The original had a great combat system (both shooting and brawling).

I notice some people outside here would scoff at the idea of a sequel...I'm not sure why though.

[Superman's Dead]

It DID have great combat. I loved the mechanism of the second one where you'd learn new moves, and you could change your guns up and keep them in your trunk...

Where did I put my BC copy of that? Hmmm...

[Nerdious]

Some people praise Crackdown (people like me), and it took a long time for it to gather any kind of following at all. For quite a while it was known the game that came with the Halo 3 beta. Personally, I found it to be one of the few examples of a proper action sandbox game this generation, but that is just me.

Man, that was the one trailer the whole show I was standing up and cheering. It looks brilliant. I loved the first one to the point I'm playing through it again (co-op anyone?). It looked like more of the same with crazier physics, vehicles and guns. Which all add up to an instant purchase for me.

Seriously, the Batman thing was cool, the Halo trailer was overhyped, but the Crackdown video was the most exciting thing the whole show.

[Dark Prince]

The first Crackdown was pretty fun when I tried it. Will have to go back to actually finish the whole game though.

Excited for Batman 2; beat the first game no problem, thought the different endings were cool. Can only imagine what direction they can possibly go now. I hope they at least have a different villain cast this time. Two-Face would be great as the man in charge this time and maybe have the Joker in the background instead of controlling everything.

As for Halo Reach; it looks interesting and I think I'll leave it at that for now. Since there isn't any gameplay yet, I'm still skeptical, but no matter what the Halo series has always been fun to play, will certainly give it a go no matter what.

[muddi900]

I don't think it looked any better than Gears 2, or Modern Warfare 2.... I don't see why there's "no way in hell" it looks that good.

The lighting and the frame rate are way better than both those games. It does indeed look better than both. You also have to keep in mind that MW2 wasn't in "HD", so the cinematic already has it beat:)

The only reason I said that was because it looked freaking amazing. If anybody is really expecting those visuals on any console this generation is dreaming. The 6 player COOP is tempting, wish I had more friends with Xboxes.


Seriously, the Batman thing was cool, the Halo trailer was overhyped, but the Crackdown video was the most exciting thing the whole show.

Didn't anybody beside Bap and me saw the Spec Op trailer! It had Bjork, which already beats anything in that choppy mess that was C2.


The problem with Sandbox games are there are a bunch that each have a neat gameplay mechanic that I wish would all come together for one game. This game could possibly do it. The original had a great combat system (both shooting and brawling).

Maybe I did play the wrong game. The one I played had some weird shooter control scheme that made combat a complete chore.

[Karak]

I thought that Spec Ops game looked the most interesting.

Maybe because it was new to me/surprised me, but I agree totally.

[Xerxes]

The Spec Ops trailer had nothing but a awesome Bjork song I never heard of. Maybe I'll watch it again one day. >_<

Gruff Voice: There is only one way to get the answer you seek. (short pause) Got to hell.
*Explosion* Main character is transported to www.youtube.com

Song is called Storm. From some soundtrack she did. Drawing Restraint 9.

[The Iron Weasel]

The lighting and the frame rate are way better than both those games. It does indeed look better than both. You also have to keep in mind that MW2 wasn't in "HD", so the cinematic already has it beat:)

The only reason I said that was because it looked freaking amazing. If anybody is really expecting those visuals on any console this generation is dreaming. The 6 player COOP is tempting, wish I had more friends with Xboxes.

Ironically most of the comments on GT are complaints about how shitty it looks.

[ElektroDragon]

Darn it, despite all the ads and reminders I MISSED the show! I was too busy finishing AC2! Finished last night at 3:30AM!

[Suave Peanut]

I don't think anybody would say that you really missed anything. You can watch all of the trailers online and, as a bonus, skip the bullshit that was in-between.

[Spectre-7]

I don't think anybody would say that you really missed anything. You can watch all of the trailers online and, as a bonus, skip the bullshit that was in-between.

Amen to that. I only watched about five minutes, and I had to fight the urge to gouge my eyes out with my thumbs the whole time.

With any luck, next year's will open with the Most Explosive Firebomb Fueled by Dew, so we can be done with this bloody duketastrophe once and for all.

[Calgar99]

Is six player coop confimed or just rumor with regards to halo?

[Widgetcraft]

I don't think anybody would say that you really missed anything. You can watch all of the trailers online and, as a bonus, skip the bullshit that was in-between.

I've heard that Jack Black got pretty pissed (really, not just staged) because Brutal Legend didn't win GOTY. I'm kind of annoyed that it won best voice acting in a year with Ghostbusters and Arkham Asylum.

[carnage11]

I've heard that Jack Black got pretty pissed (really, not just staged) because Brutal Legend didn't win GOTY. I'm kind of annoyed that it won best voice acting in a year with Ghostbusters and Arkham Asylum.

Yeah it was pretty funny, cause he smashed the podium and they had to drag him off stage. He was wearing a crown that said Game of the Year.:D

[Disgustipated]

Halo Reach looks amazing. It looks like in-engine rendered cinematics. And finally, we get a game with the other Spartans.

Definitely gonna be one of the hottest games of 2010, and probably the best Halo overall. 6 player co-op will be nuts.

And I really hope Bungie's new engine is the bee's knees, as they've been working on it for a while, and have access to top-tier development resources and tools.

[Psykoboy2]

His win pretty much ruined the show for me. It set the bar as far as what was going to happen the rest of the night and how things would go. Although, I could also say the categories did that well before the show even began - Best Voice includes all those choices, but they had to add Best Performance by a human male and human female that includes celebrities, but not jack black?

Also, games could only win once seems REALLY shady to me.

Ah well, I refer to my annual statement every year before and after these awards: Fuck you, Spike TV. Fuck. You.

[Widgetcraft]

Yeah it was pretty funny, cause he smashed the podium and they had to drag him off stage. He was wearing a crown that said Game of the Year.:D

Meh, now that I've seen it, it was obviously scripted... Blah. I want drama. Still stand by my statement about the voice acting; Jack Black is fine and all, but we had Mark Hamill and the entire cast of Ghostbusters this year.

EDIT: And then I see this...

Best Cast: X-Men Origins: Wolverine

...Fuck you Spike TV.

[Psykoboy2]

Part of me thinks he was asked to host last year and was told if he did, he could not only promote Brutal Legend (a game nearly a year away from release), but they'd give him the best voice acting win at the next awards show.

It all just seems really fixed to me.

[Loki]

Huh. Outside of the casting ones, I'd say that the awards represented the consensus from the gaming public. Not really that big of a deal, is it?

[Spigot]

Huh. Outside of the casting ones, I'd say that the awards represented the consensus from the gaming public. Not really that big of a deal, is it?It's more the way the whole show is put together than anything. I was trying to explain my disgust with one of the guys at work last night.

The best comparison I could come up with was to imagine the Oscars where they barely have time to talk about movies amongst all of the musical numbers.

Wait a minute...

[Widgetcraft]

Huh. Outside of the casting ones, I'd say that the awards represented the consensus from the gaming public. Not really that big of a deal, is it?

Best Xbox 360 Game: Left 4 Dead 2

Seems kind of stupid to give the best game of a platform to a multiplatform game; especially when it isn't the best platform for said game. Hell, Modern Warefare 2 won best shooter, as well as best multiplayer game (bullshit) and that was on the 360... why not that?

Best Action Adventure Game: Assassin's Creed II

Soo... we've already established that a multiplatform game can be the best game on a platform for this awards show; how can ACII win best in the genre when it loses GOTY to another game in it's genre, as well as best game on the PS3 to the same game?

Best Game Based On A Movie/TV Show: South Park Let's Go Tower Defense Play!

Blatant marketing.

[Sandman]

It's more the way the whole show is put together than anything. I was trying to explain my disgust with one of the guys at work last night.

The best comparison I could come up with was to imagine the Oscars where they barely have time to talk about movies amongst all of the musical numbers.

Wait a minute...

I still say it's an improvement over the train wreck it has been in the past. The focus was more on the trailers and announcements than the actual awards and I'm kinda fine with that.

As far as Jack Black getting Best Voice Acting I'd say it could go to anyone in that category really and I'd believe it.

Overall it's still in the shitty category but this year I can add: "Shitty but at least its watchable."

[Loki]

It's more the way the whole show is put together than anything. I was trying to explain my disgust with one of the guys at work last night.

The best comparison I could come up with was to imagine the Oscars where they barely have time to talk about movies amongst all of the musical numbers.

Wait a minute...

I feel that while the game awards could be better done, I don't think that they are that bad. All award shows, including the Oscars, are nothing but a giant circle-jerk with little impact on what is actually 'great'. This is true from anything from the Nobel awards to the Oscars to Spike TV. It is good to see that your favorite game is acknowledged for being awesome, but I'd say that in the end, it is nothing more than an advertising wet-dream and Spike TV is the extreme to that end. They could do it more tactfully, but its the same guise dressed up in different shades of magenta.

[Spigot]

Yeah, I know. What little I actually watched of the show didn't make me run screaming from the room like it usually does but I also had no problem walking away and reading a book instead.

I like the fact that there is an award show... but it's so EXTREEEEEEEME! that it makes my brain hurt. That, and it seems to have taken an untold number of years for the awards to even start to bear a hint of legitimacy.

Why not call it the Spike TV Trailer Awards and be done with it? That seems to be the only thing people take away from it. At least, those of us with our noses high in the air and our Razr Monocle snugly in place...

[Widgetcraft]

You'd think that if they wanted a cheap way to cash in on gamers, they would just hire the Gametrailers, Screwattack, and Thatguywiththeglasses guys to make an hour or so of programming for them every week.

[Telefrog]

Seems kind of stupid to give the best game of a platform to a multiplatform game; especially when it isn't the best platform for said game. Hell, Modern Warefare 2 won best shooter, as well as best multiplayer game (bullshit) and that was on the 360... why not that?

The industry considers PC to not really be an exclusive platform, so it always gets discounted in these awards. When ever you see " x console exclusive" in a category they always mean "not including a PC version" which is lame, but that's the way it's always been done.

[Spigot]

You'd think that if they wanted a cheap way to cash in on gamers, they would just hire the Gametrailers, Screwattack, and Thatguywiththeglasses guys to make an hour or so of programming for them every week.Sigh. I know. I guess I've long since moved past the point of caring about the VGAs aside from making token complaints about them each year. Yay for new trailers, I guess.

I'll just go back and watch more quality video made by people who are actually speaking to me as opposed to the great unwashed masses...

[Spectre-7]

I like the fact that there is an award show... but it's so EXTREEEEEEEME! that it makes my brain hurt. That, and it seems to have taken an untold number of years for the awards to even start to bear a hint of legitimacy.

I'm still not seeing even that hint of legitimacy, although I suppose my steadfast refusal to watch is probably part of that. Still, the entire sham of a show is wholly unnecessary when we already have awards (GDCA (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Game_Developers_Choice_Awards) and IAA (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interactive_Achievement_Awards)) with more than just a nascent sheen of legitimacy. IMO, a retarded spectacle like the VGAs does nothing but hurt the popular image of the industry.

[TheEpicOfTyler]

This is the VMA's of video games. Nobody REALLY cares.

[Primus]

I really hope the whole Spartan with warpaint transfers over to the multiplayer customization!

Also Crackdown rules and I cannot wait for 2.

[H.Bogard]

Did anyone else think "Ghost" when they showed the spartan with the skull helmet?

[Rock Bandit]

Amen to that. I only watched about five minutes, and I had to fight the urge to gouge my eyes out with my thumbs the whole time.

With any luck, next year's will open with the Most Explosive Firebomb Fueled by Dew, so we can be done with this bloody duketastrophe once and for all.

Keep hatin' hater. True gamers like me, we all 'bout cranking the Dew, getting xxxtreme, and playing some Flower motherfucker! Wu Tang!

[Spectre-7]

Keep hatin' hater. True gamers like me, we all 'bout cranking the Dew, getting xxxtreme, and playing some Flower motherfucker! Wu Tang!

Ya know, that just brightened my day immeasurably. :D

Wu Tang!

[Superman's Dead]

I know you guys are probably being silly, but on a side note the Wu-Tang Clan references so much pop (geek) culture like comic books and Voltron that more mainstream music doesn't...sigh.

I have a JRPG in my head in a sci-fi setting focused around hip-hop, and the Wu-Tang Clan is the ninja-like organization in the shadows of the universe.

[Spigot]

I know you guys are probably being silly, but on a side note the Wu-Tang Clan references so much pop (geek) culture like comic books and Voltron that more mainstream music doesn't...sigh.

I have a JRPG in my head in a sci-fi setting focused around hip-hop, and the Wu-Tang Clan is the ninja-like organization in the shadows of the universe.The Seven Brutal Chambers Of The Wu-Tang Legend starring Lil Wayne and John Hodgeman.

You know you want it.

[Superman's Dead]

Lil' Wayne would be the goofball character with low Attack and Defense but some crazy-powerful special that sucked up a lot of mana.

[Generation ABXY]

Man, I was a big fan of the original Crackdown, but I think that trailer actually knocked the sequel down a few spots on my must-have list. The new True Crime, on the other hand, just made it (and I never played the original, after hearing some horrible things about it).

[Doogie2K]

Man, I was a big fan of the original Crackdown, but I think that trailer actually knocked the sequel down a few spots on my must-have list.

I feel the same way on both counts. I was completely unimpressed, and I can't put my finger on why. I wonder if maybe they're trying to capture lightning in a bottle twice here, and it's just not working.

[Generation ABXY]

Yeah, I'm not quite sure why, either. It's odd...

[Druxk]

The Spec Ops game is looking pretty spiffy. Halo Reach's saving grace is that the story arch it covers is the best in the series. I just hope they are working in conjunction with Eric Nylund on the story. His books were the some of the best video game based books I have read.

[TrackZero]

Why not? My guess is, unlike Beatles, this will be fully exportable, since they don't have legen(wait for it)dary licensing hurdles to jump through.

It damn well better or I'm not touching it.

[Suave Peanut]

It damn well better or I'm not touching it.

Looks like somebody didn't read the second line of the press release:
Artist Likenesses, Defining Albums from the Band’s Career and Exportable Track List to be Featured in Green Day Music Game Experience

[mightbe]

HMX press release confirms GD:RB will be exportable. Rent, burn, return, move on; just like I did with L:RB.

Or borrow from a friend!

I'm actually pretty excited for this release. I'm hoping it's a quality tribute to the band with significant engine upgrades.

[mightbe]

As awful as it is, at least they're having an awards show. I see it as a step in the right direction, with a horribly botched presentation.

[Suave Peanut]

Or borrow from a friend!

I'm actually pretty excited for this release. I'm hoping it's a quality tribute to the band with significant engine upgrades.

I highly doubt you will be able to borrow and rip. It will more than likely be a unique code in the package that you will need for export, just like with LEGO and the AC/DC pack. The Rock Band 1 export was an experiment at the time and is an exception.

Also: Green Day is far from good enough to deserve a "quality tribute" like The Beatles.

[Doogie2K]

Artist Likenesses, Defining Albums from the Band’s Career and Exportable Track List to be Featured in Green Day Music Game ExperienceHow many defining albums does Green Day have? One? Maybe two, if you're a fan of American Idiot?

[Karak]

Man, I was a big fan of the original Crackdown, but I think that trailer actually knocked the sequel down a few spots on my must-have list. The new True Crime, on the other hand, just made it (and I never played the original, after hearing some horrible things about it).

It may be what others have already said. The superhero vibe is gone replaced with some kind of military look. To me the favorite part was feeling like a mix between batman and superman jumping around killing bad guys.
Now its zombies....uhm ya.

[mightbe]

Dookie, Nimrod, and American Idiot were all defining albums that show the evolution of the band.

You can fucking rag on the band all you want, I'm sure you all have some shit you like that I don't, but they're an enduring relevant band that I'm glad to see getting the Harmonix treatment. Are there other bands that would probably make a better game? Undoubtably.

I'm guessing that Green Day makes sound business sense to them by providing a sizeable catalog iconic and easily recognizable songs that span a good portion of the game buying age group.

Just like with Beatles/LEGO, you can likely expect two releases a year from HMX from here on out. And we really have no solid evidence as to what their other one is. Hopefully it's another iteration of the core Rock Band game with improved instruments and features.

[Suave Peanut]

Why does everybody forget that the mutants ("zombies") were there in the first game?

[Cactaur]

Its Hong Kong. Currency is the lion head motif.

[Karak]

Why does everybody forget that the mutants ("zombies") were there in the first game?

I don't think anyway has. At least I haven't seen anyone surprised due to the fact they are in the game. I think the problem is that it appears they are the main enemy.

[Widgetcraft]

Just like with Beatles/LEGO, you can likely expect two releases a year from HMX from here on out.

Yep, rhythm games are the hot new shovelware genre. Think of them as you would side-scrolling platformers from the early-to-mid 90's, only you have to put even less effort into these. Activision and EA can crank these things out in a few months and throw them onto the shelves for the same price as games like Arkham Asylum; hell, sometimes they can sell them for $100+ with brand new plastic instruments that are defective half of the time.

[Suave Peanut]

You, sir, are clearly not a businessman.

[mightbe]

You can call Harmonix a bunch of things but "a producer of shovelware", you'd have no basis for.

[Ink Asylum]

Releasing content expansions for a well-developed original game is hardly shovelware. If you buy Green Bay: Rock Band expecting some amazing improvements to graphics or gameplay features you're expecting too much. It's not secret that what you're paying for are the new songs to play. Are those new songs worth the $60 price tag? That's the only question you need to ask.

Once you have Rock Band 2 all you really need, in my mind, is more music. They provide plenty with the music store, but one or two band-specific deals a year are actually a bargain if you get more songs for cheaper than you would buying individually through the store.

[Widgetcraft]

You can call Harmonix a bunch of things but "a producer of shovelware", you'd have no basis for.

...They produce shovelware, shovelware being games made with relatively low budgets and development time, coupled with little or no creativity. They continually release the same game with different licensed music tracks, and that is pretty much all that they have done since the release of Guitar Hero II. If you enjoy their shovelware, that's fine, but that doesn't change what they are.

Releasing content expansions for a well-developed original game is hardly shovelware. If you buy Green Bay: Rock Band expecting some amazing improvements to graphics or gameplay features you're expecting too much. It's not secret that what you're paying for are the new songs to play. Are those new songs worth the $60 price tag? That's the only question you need to ask.

...If I go into Barbie Horse Adventures with low expectations, does that somehow make it not shovelware?

[Ink Asylum]

...They produce shovelware, shovelware being games made with relatively low budgets and development time, coupled with little or no creativity. They continually release the same game with different licensed music tracks, and that is pretty much all that they have done since the release of Guitar Hero II. If you enjoy their shovelware, that's fine, but that doesn't change what they are.

"Shovelware" also means a low quality game. If you think The Beatles: Rock Band had a low budget, low development time, and little or no creativity than you're just being obtuse.

Green Day might not be on as large a scale as The Beatles but I'm sure that Harmonix will flavor the game as much as possible with the band's style.

I'm not going to defend Activision's games, but Harmonix clearly cares about their music titles and does more than just slap the name on the same game year after year.

[Widgetcraft]

"Shovelware" also means a low quality game.

Not necessarily. That is typical of shovelware, it isn't really part of the definition of shovelware.

If you think The Beatles: Rock Band had a low budget, low development time, and little or no creativity than you're just being obtuse.

Well, I don't know how long it took to develop, specifically, but they were still trying to sell the license holders on the idea in early 2008. The vast majority of the budget probably went to acquiring said licenses. So, let's say it took about a year maybe, for something that was supposed to be a huge release. Compare that to the time spent developing Halo 3 or Uncharted 2.

I'm not going to defend Activision's games, but Harmonix clearly cares

Blatant bias here.

[Suave Peanut]

You shit on rhythm games all the time, so forgive us for not paying attention to your arguments against them. Why don't you just take the effort you put into trolling what other people like and go play a game you yourself enjoy?

[Widgetcraft]

You shit on rhythm games all the time, so forgive us for not paying attention to your arguments against them.

Then why bother responding at all? I think you're the one with the problem here.

[Ink Asylum]

Not necessarily. That is typical of shovelware, it isn't really part of the definition of shovelware.

Your definition of "shovelware" perhaps. Considering that it's an industry slang term it doesn't have a concrete definition. Low-quality is definitely one of the qualities most people associate with shovelware. If a company has the resources to produce a quality title in a series on a yearly basis few people would call that shovelware.

Well, I don't know how long it took to develop, specifically, but they were still trying to sell the license holders on the idea in early 2008. The vast majority of the budget probably went to acquiring said licenses.

Unless you have numbers to back it up I'd stop guessing on the time, effort, and money that went into creating one of the biggest games of the past year.

Blatant bias here.

Bias how? I don't play the Activision rhythm games anymore because the quality dropped off and I stopped enjoying them, so I'm not going to discuss them. I continue to play Harmonix games because they've maintained quality and have provided much more content that I enjoy, and music games come down to two things in the end, the breadth and quality of the content, and the controls. I also observe the culture of their studio, at least as much as a non-journalist can, and they consistently remain passionate about music and rhythm games.

[Suave Peanut]

Then why bother responding at all? I think you're the one with the problem here.

I'm just defending what I enjoy, buddy. I like these games. I'm sorry that you don't 'get' them.

You should really give The Beatles game a try, by the way. It's like a psychadelic road trip!

[Widgetcraft]

Your definition of "shovelware" perhaps.

It is software that is shoveled onto the shelves as quickly and cheaply as possible. The Hero and Rock Band games are like the text book definition of shovelware. They are so cheap and easy to make, in fact, that one Hero game was canceled and made into a pre-order bonus for another Hero game.

Considering that it's an industry slang term it doesn't have a concrete definition. Low-quality is definitely one of the qualities most people associate with shovelware.

Can't help that, most shovelware sucks, because it is made with nothing but profit in mind. It isn't as if there is some guy over at Harmonix coming up with creative new ideas for the next Rock Band. They buy track lists, make models and animations, do some Q&A, and put them on the shelves. The gameplay mechanics are canned, no creativity necessary. They're basically the video game equivalent of a generic sitcom.

If a company has the resources to produce a quality title in a series on a yearly basis few people would call that shovelware.

That is the whole point, it takes very little in the way of resources to produce the games. That is why you keep seeing a new one every few months. It isn't hard to make a quality game in these two franchises because they're basically already made.

Unless you have numbers to back it up I'd stop guessing on the time, effort, and money that went into creating one of the biggest games of the past year.

Unless you have the numbers to refute my guess, I don't really give a shit about what you would do.

Bias how? I don't play the Activision rhythm games anymore because the quality dropped off and I stopped enjoying them,

In what way? How has the quality dropped off? Are the fret boards not as aesthetically pleasing as they used to be? You don't like the Activision games because it is (rightly) popular to hate Activision these days; in large part because they produce a great deal of shovelware. A lot of that shovelware takes a lot more time and money to produce than these rhythm games, but they still lift mechanics and structure from other games while adding nothing new to the formula.

I continue to play Harmonix games because they've maintained quality and have provided much more content that I enjoy, and music games come down to two things in the end, the breadth and quality of the content, and the controls. I also observe the culture of their studio, at least as much as a non-journalist can, and they consistently remain passionate about music and rhythm games.

How can you be passionate about fucking rhythm games? They put less work into these things than the yearly Madden releases, how passionate could they possibly be? They're passionate about bringing home large sacks of cash, I'm sure, and kudos to them for finding an easy way to do it. They aren't making new music in-house, or coming up with new gameplay, so I find it hard to believe that they're passionate about game design or music.

[Ink Asylum]

It is software that is shoveled onto the shelves as quickly and cheaply as possible. The Hero and Rock Band games are like the text book definition of shovelware. They are so cheap and easy to make, in fact, that one Hero game was canceled and made into a pre-order bonus for another Hero game.

Since you fail to produce any numbers regarding how much Activision or EA spend on making their rhythm games we can safely ignore your classification of them as shovelware.

Can't help that, most shovelware sucks, because it is made with nothing but profit in mind. It isn't as if there is some guy over at Harmonix coming up with creative new ideas for the next Rock Band. They buy track lists, make models and animations, do some Q&A, and put them on the shelves. The gameplay mechanics are canned, no creativity necessary. They're basically the video game equivalent of a generic sitcom.

A rhythm game that radically reinvented how you play the game every year would be damn frustrating to play. Continuing and refining a gameplay style over the course of a series isn't a fault, it's a good idea. Of course it seems like you don't play rhythm games at all so you wouldn't know if anything changes in new games anyway.

A lot of that shovelware takes a lot more time and money to produce than these rhythm games, but they still lift mechanics and structure from other games while adding nothing new to the formula.

So now shovelware can take a lot of time and money? Your definition of shovelware continues to jump all over the place, and now just seems to mean "A game series I don't like with more than one game every five years."

How can you be passionate about fucking rhythm games? They put less work into these things than the yearly Madden releases, how passionate could they possibly be? They're passionate about bringing home large sacks of cash, I'm sure, and kudos to them for finding an easy way to do it. They aren't making new music in-house, or coming up with new gameplay, so I find it hard to believe that they're passionate about game design or music.

Actually, many Harmonix employees are musicians whose bands put music into their games, so yes, they do make new music in house. It's clear now you know nothing about the company, don't play their games, and are basing all your judgments on your distaste for rhythm games and the fact that they get released frequently.

[Xerxes]

I don't think anyway has. At least I haven't seen anyone surprised due to the fact they are in the game. I think the problem is that it appears they are the main enemy.

I bet thats just the first type of gang. I'm not surprised seeing as I broke a jail of them out and unleashed these freaks on the city. I'm betting Mutants, Zombies, and Agency. Or some sort of weird gang of normal humans.

[Nameless]

In what way? How has the quality dropped off? Are the fret boards not as aesthetically pleasing as they used to be? You don't like the Activision games because it is (rightly) popular to hate Activision these days; in large part because they produce a great deal of shovelware. A lot of that shovelware takes a lot more time and money to produce than these rhythm games, but they still lift mechanics and structure from other games while adding nothing new to the formula.

That's being quite presumptuous. I stopped liking Guitar Hero before it was cool to hate on Activision. I started hating that franchise when Guitar Hero 3 sucked giant donkey balls. Had that game been even slightly decent, I might have stuck out for Guitar Hero IV, but unfortunately, customers follow developers who make good games, which Harmonix has done consistently with only a few very minor missteps along the way.

In addition, I think you're underestimating the amount of work that goes into making a rhythm game good. Yes, it's quite easy to churn out these games (see Guitar Hero franchise), but to make the charting of the songs actually accurate and fun to play requires a lot of work, and a good amount of musical knowledge, which is why Harmonix makes such solid games.

Admittedly, it takes a certain kind of person to appreciate these games, but that doesn't mean the game is of poor quality (which is what I read into your shovelware comment) because you're not into it. If you want to talk about gaming moments, my top gaming moment of the year was playing the Abbey Road medley in Beatles: Rock Band with a 7-person band. And it's going to take a lot to top that.

[Spigot]

What Nameless said... Put me down in his camp.

[Widgetcraft]

Since you fail to produce any numbers regarding how much Activision or EA spend on making their rhythm games we can safely ignore your classification of them as shovelware.

Sure, because you're blatantly biased on the subject. "I like this, so I'm going to ignore anything I perceive to be a slight against it." Good head-in-the-sand strategy you've got there.

A rhythm game that radically reinvented how you play the game every year would be damn frustrating to play. Continuing and refining a gameplay style over the course of a series isn't a fault, it's a good idea. Of course it seems like you don't play rhythm games at all so you wouldn't know if anything changes in new games anyway.

Then educate me on the subject, how was Rock Band refined from Rock Band 2 to Rock Band: The Beatles, or whatever the fuck they called it?

So now shovelware can take a lot of time and money? Your definition of shovelware continues to jump all over the place, and now just seems to mean "A game series I don't like with more than one game every five years."

Minimal investment of time and resources are put into shovelware. This means little or no creativity, and that is why shovelware is bad. It is the same shit that you've already played. Let's take a look at a game like The Saboteur, for example. I would consider that to be shovelware. It is a half-baked generic sandbox game, produced by a developer who has done nothing but half-baked generic sandbox games. It took them more time and money to produce the shit that they came up with than they would have liked (which is why EA didn't keep them around to make more), but that doesn't really mean that it wasn't okayed by the suits with the intention of it being a sure thing.

Coming soon to the shovelware shelves: Dante's Inferno, a generic GoW clone built mostly on marketing.

Actually, many Harmonix employs are musicians whose bands put music into their games, so yes, they do make new music in house.

Last I checked there wasn't a whole lot of original music in these games. Apparently that has changed. Tell me what your favorite original song is from the latest Rock Band game that you bought? Last I checked they were hiring a company to produce covers for songs that they couldn't acquire the masters to, but apparently there has been a ton of innovation injected into franchise. Or did you just mean that they decided to hire some musicians to work directly for them instead of contracting that third-party company to cover music?

If you want to talk about gaming moments, my top gaming moment of the year was playing the Abbey Road medley in Beatles: Rock Band with a 7-person band.

But did you enjoy that because Rock Band is a legitimately new and exciting experience, or because you had seven people playing a game together in the same room? A lot of shit can be fun with other people that you enjoy being with. A bad movie can go from two hours of torment to a laugh-riot with the right group of people.

I never said that Rock Band fails as a party game, or even that they aren't fun to play. I simply said that they are shovelware. The fact that a single developer can put out so many of them should tell you that they are shovelware.

[Ink Asylum]

That's being quite presumptuous. I stopped liking Guitar Hero before it was cool to hate on Activision. I started hating that franchise when Guitar Hero 3 sucked giant donkey balls. Had that game been even slightly decent, I might have stuck out for Guitar Hero IV, but unfortunately, customers follow developers who make good games, which Harmonix has done consistently with only a few very minor missteps along the way.

Pretty much the same here. I bought both Guitar Hero 3 and Rock Band 1, which came out about the same time. I played but hated GH3, mostly because the tabbing of the songs really sucked, and loved RB1 for a number a reasons. Every time I've touched or read about a GH game since I haven't seen any reason to go back to regularly buying them.

[Nameless]

Then educate me on the subject, how was Rock Band refined from Rock Band 2 to Rock Band: The Beatles, or whatever the fuck they called it?

Rock Band: Addition of drums and vocals. Standardization of Guitar and Bass (instead of guitar vs. rhythm guitar vs. bass from previous GH games). Added guitar solo sections and bass grooves. Varied campaign story mode and an online competitive mode.

Rock Band 2: Drum solos and hammer-on chords are added into the mix. Online story mode. Many numerous fixes to gameplay. New revised and wireless instruments released. DLC continues to grow at an alarming (for my wallet) rate.

The Beatles: Rock Band: Added vocal harmonies (an incredibly feature in my opinion). Fixed hammer-on chords so that they actually make sense now. Amazing visual style. It's the motherfucking Beatles.

Rock Band Network: Software allowing indie bands to release their own songs as DLC into Rock Band games.

[Dark Prince]

I never said that Rock Band fails as a party game, or even that they aren't fun to play. I simply said that they are shovelware. The fact that a single developer can put out so many of them should tell you that they are shovelware.

However, by the definition you are implying with shovelware you are still claiming those Rock Band games to be of low effort and quality. When looking at The Beatles: Rock Band for instance, I don't see how you can call that low quality shovelware.

EDIT: Just look at Nameless's post and there you go.

[Xerxes]

See now you guys need to take this why rhythm games suck talk to another thread.

[Widgetcraft]

The Beatles: Rock Band: Added vocal harmonies (an incredibly feature in my opinion). Fixed hammer-on chords so that they actually make sense now. Amazing visual style. It's the motherfucking Beatles.

I asked for Rockband 2 to The Beatles, not the history of the franchise. Obviously things changed from Guitar Hero 2 to Rock Band, which was several years ago now.

So, what you're telling me is that they fixed something that apparently didn't work before (from what I recall of hammer-ons they seemed to work fine), and added vocal harmonies. What is this vocal harmonies feature? Does it just mean that you need to sing in sync with someone else, or what? That doesn't sound like a big new feature, it sounds like adding more mics to established gameplay.

Rock Band Network: Software allowing indie bands to release their own songs as DLC into Rock Band games.

Free monies.

[Nameless]

But did you enjoy that because Rock Band is a legitimately new and exciting experience, or because you had seven people playing a game together in the same room? A lot of shit can be fun with other people that you enjoy being with. A bad movie can go from two hours of torment to a laugh-riot with the right group of people.

I never said that Rock Band fails as a party game, or even that they aren't fun to play. I simply said that they are shovelware. The fact that a single developer can put out so many of them should tell you that they are shovelware.

Yes, the fact that Rock Band is better with more people is quite true. As a game, it relies on social energy to make it work. But I don't see why this should be considered a mitigating factor, since the game is designed with this concept in mind.

Would it be fair to discount Left 4 Dead's awesome multiplayer experiences because the game is relying on the human interaction of co-operation to make the experience stand out?

In the end, I suppose we have differing ideas of what shovelware is. If you can continuously put out quality, fun games, and keep up a two-per year schedule (or even a yearly schedule), that's not shovelware, in my opinion.

[Widgetcraft]

However, by the definition you are implying with shovelware you are still claiming those Rock Band games to be of low effort and quality.

I specifically said that it is easy to make a high quality game in these franchises, because they're basically already made. I can make a high quality standard-design paper airplane right now, but that isn't really something to brag about. Are you saying that these games, which are sold at full price, require as much effort as Arkham Asylum, or Borderlands? Do they even require as much effort to make as was put into Torchlight? I seriously doubt it.

When looking at The Beatles: Rock Band for instance, I don't see how you can call that low quality shovelware.

I didn't, I called it shovelware, and other people assumed low quality was implied. Just because I personally don't like a game, and have criticisms of it (or more specifically, the business practices surrounding it), doesn't mean that it is necessarily low quality.

[Ink Asylum]

Sure, because you're blatantly biased on the subject. "I like this, so I'm going to ignore anything I perceive to be a slight against it." Good head-in-the-sand strategy you've got there.

I say I enjoy one rhythm series over another, so I stick to discussing the genre I continue to play, and now I'm blatantly biased? As opposed to you, who doesn't even play these games but reflexively hates on them and spouts complete misinformation on the subject?

Then educate me on the subject, how was Rock Band refined from Rock Band 2 to Rock Band: The Beatles, or whatever the fuck they called it?

A quick list: Improved presentation during songs, by a tremendous degree, it's even more like playing a music vide, especially the stages that use the psychadelic settings from their Yellow Submarine days. They introduced harmonized vocals, which as someone else said allows seven people to play the game at once. They also improved the hammer-ons, which they then patched into previous Rock Band games to improve performance. That's just off the top of my head, but I doubt it's all they changed.

Outside of improvements in Beatles, they're close to implementing a music generator for the entire series, which will allow people to tabulate their own songs at home and put them on a marketplace to sell them.

Last I checked there wasn't a whole lot of original music in these games. Apparently that has changed. Tell me what your favorite original song is from the latest Rock Band game that you bought?

There are whole bands that are either comprised of Harmonix employees or who were hired by Harmonix to work on their games. Such bands that I've enjoyed, and which I've gone on to buy actual albums from, include Freezepop, the Acro-Bats, Vagiant and Shaimus.

Last I checked they were hiring a company to produce covers for songs that they couldn't acquire the masters to, but apparently there has been a ton of innovation injected into franchise. Or did you just mean that they decided to hire some musicians to work directly for them instead of contracting that third-party company to cover music?

Since Rock Band released it's the exception rather than the norm to have cover bands re-record music. Nowadays probably 95% of the music in rhythm games are master tracks. The musicians that work for Harmonix are involved in setting up the tabs for the tracks to be as much like playing the song as possible, and in many other areas of game design. They're not just recording covers.

[Widgetcraft]

In the end, I suppose we have differing ideas of what shovelware is. If you can continuously put out quality, fun games, and keep up a two-per year schedule (or even a yearly schedule), that's not shovelware, in my opinion.

If you can put out new games that quickly, sure, that isn't shovelware. But if you release the same game with new levels or whatever, and never really innovate the gameplay in a significant way, then that is shovelware. It might be really fun shovelware, and it might be really profitable shovelware, but it is still shovelware.

[Suave Peanut]

I'm going to agree with Xerxes here. There's no point in this back-and-forth "I like it!" and "I don't!" except arguing for the sake for arguing. Some of us enjoy the games, others do not. Move on.

[Ink Asylum]

Free monies.

Now you're just being cynical. Opening up the Rock Band market to anyone is a huge deal for independent artists. It provides them access to one of the biggest markets for music today. Independent artists will benefit greatly and will make money off the sales.

Your continued ignorance of how Harmonix treats the music genre and independent music isn't surprising, though.

[Ink Asylum]

If you can put out new games that quickly, sure, that isn't shovelware. But if you release the same game with new levels or whatever, and never really innovate the gameplay in a significant way, then that is shovelware. It might be really fun shovelware, and it might be really profitable shovelware, but it is still shovelware.

It's clear now that you have a definition of shovelware that is far outside the normal usage. It's semantics at this point.

[Nameless]

I'm going to agree with Xerxes here. There's no point in this back-and-forth "I like it!" and "I don't!" except arguing for the sake for arguing. Some of us enjoy the games, others do not. Move on.

But how else will I fill this dreary December afternoon? :p

You have a point though, this went off-topic a while ago and I apologize.

Just one last thing:

So, what you're telling me is that they fixed something that apparently didn't work before (from what I recall of hammer-ons they seemed to work fine), and added vocal harmonies. What is this vocal harmonies feature? Does it just mean that you need to sing in sync with someone else, or what? That doesn't sound like a big new feature, it sounds like adding more mics to established gameplay.

Vocal harmonies are created when singers sing different notes; essentially, the vocalists are forming a chord with their voices. It creates a pleasant sound and is incredibly fun and challenging to do.

I really can't recommend enough that you play The Beatles: Rock Band. It really is a fantastic game in its own right, and the presentation alone is almost worth the price of admission. I can't imagine anyone not liking it, but I might be coming from a very biased position. :D

Back on topic: I am going to go finish Arkham Asylum right now so that I can be super excited for Arkham Asylum 2.

[Widgetcraft]

Now you're just being cynical. Opening up the Rock Band market to anyone is a huge deal for independent artists. It provides them access to one of the biggest markets for music today. Independent artists will benefit greatly and will make money off the sales.

...and EA gets to suck money up like a goddamn vacuum without even putting in the minimal effort required for the constant disc releases and DLC.

Your continued ignorance of how Harmonix treats the music genre and independent music isn't surprising, though.

Yeah, ol'Heretic is always such a curmudgeon, acting like publishers are just taking shortcuts to make as much money as possible regardless of what it means for the future of the hobby.

[Ink Asylum]

...and EA gets to suck money up like a goddamn vacuum without even putting in the minimal effort required for the constant disc releases and DLC.

A big company makes money so there's no way it can be a good thing. It doesn't matter how many people like it or how many independent bands are exposed to new audiences and gain new fans.

[Widgetcraft]

Vocal harmonies are created when singers sing different notes; essentially, the vocalists are forming a chord with their voices. It creates a pleasant sound and is incredibly fun and challenging to do.

Sounds neat if it doesn't amount to a few people just doing the singing game on different charts.

[Superman's Dead]

Sounds neat if it doesn't amount to a few people just doing the singing game on different charts.

That's actually exactly what it is. But the difference is, if it's done right, it'll sound really really cool in the room. Instead of clicking or thumping there will be two humans actually singing in harmony with the game directing them.

[Ondo]

The fact that a single developer can put out so many of them should tell you that they are shovelware.
So many? They've done one a year. Lego Rock Band and Rock Band Unplugged were both worked on by other developers.

And that's ignoring the size of the developer. Harmonix just fired 39 people, which was 13% of their workforce - meaning they had about 300 employees. Naughty Dog, on the other hand, only has 100 according to Wikipedia, and yet produced Uncharted 2 in only 2 years.

Rock Band content is something you can easily have more people working on to get it done faster - that doesn't mean it's less effort.

[Farsight]

Yeah, ol'Heretic is always such a curmudgeon

Now this is something we can build on!

acting like publishers are just taking shortcuts to make as much money as possible regardless of what it means for the future of the hobby.

Like a lot of people having fun? The horror!

[MagGnome]

Yep, rhythm games are the hot new shovelware genre. Think of them as you would side-scrolling platformers from the early-to-mid 90's, only you have to put even less effort into these. Activision and EA can crank these things out in a few months and throw them onto the shelves for the same price as games like Arkham Asylum; hell, sometimes they can sell them for $100+ with brand new plastic instruments that are defective half of the time.

I thought that first person shooters were the shovelware genre of this generation?


I actually like Green Day, and I hope the haters stub their toes before bed tonight.* :p




*I was going to say something harsher, but I'm in too good of a mood to be mean.

[carnage11]

I thought that first person shooters were the shovelware genre of this generation?


I actually like Green Day, and I hope the haters stub their toes before bed tonight.* :p




*I was going to say something harsher, but I'm in too good of a mood to be mean.

Maybe you should say something like they "should be banned because they annoy you." That's pretty mean.

[Troggles]

I actually like Green Day, and I hope the haters stub their toes before bed tonight.* :p




I used to love Green Day, but that was before American Idiot. If the song list is catered more towards their early stuff I may consider picking this up.

[MagGnome]

Maybe you should say something like they "should be banned because they annoy you." That's pretty mean.

You can't let that go, can you? :p


I used to love Green Day, but that was before American Idiot. If the song list is catered more towards their early stuff I may consider picking this up.

I'm the opposite - I didn't pay much attention to them until American Idiot, and now I love their old and their new stuff.

[Doogie2K]

Dookie, Nimrod, and American Idiot were all defining albums that show the evolution of the band.

You can fucking rag on the band all you want, I'm sure you all have some shit you like that I don't, but they're an enduring relevant band that I'm glad to see getting the Harmonix treatment. Are there other bands that would probably make a better game? Undoubtably.

I'm not ragging on the band. I'm quite a fan of both Dookie and American Idiot, and I've been meaning to track down their others for a while to fill in the gaps. I come at this from the perspective of someone raised on classic rock, which changed the game in popular music for twenty or thirty years, so when I think of "defining album," I don't think just of defining the band, but a genre at a time and a place in the history of popular music. I think of Sgt. Pepper's and Led Zeppelin IV. I'm aware of Dookie's place in the grand scheme of things, but I don't hear Nimrod or even American Idiot talked about in the same light, even if they are quality albums.

Probably a semantic argument (and not one I'm interested in getting too deeply into), but that was my thought process behind the question.