Ganking, is it for you?

[ClannerDelta]

I started this thread because of the discussion started in the "What Realm?" thread. I didn't feel the need to further derail that thread.

Ganking, do you do it? If so, why? If not, why not?

To make my views more clear, I do gank. In EvE, DAoC, WoW, AoC, and in WAR. I however consider griefing and ganking to be different. I do not consider myself a Griefer.

[iHap]

I only gank/grief if a person is being a dick to me.

[Wilkz07]

i've done it but not all the time.

3 down rule, if a player is flagged for rvr/pvp and is equal or 3 below then sure open season. anything lower than that, just keep moving.

tonight in war i stopped to help out an order player who was almost killed by creature. when it died he jumped up and down... guess that was a thanks.

[JRR006]

I don't harass others.

[Camel]

I don't harass others.
Me neither.

I am a super care bear when it comes to games.

EDIT: AND JUST SAY NO TO PRIVATE POLLS!

[Johan]

Is this thread in English?

Oh...Engrish. Got it! ;)

[Lint of Death]

tonight in war i stopped to help out an order player who was almost killed by creature. when it died he jumped up and down... guess that was a thanks.

You just reminded me that, far more fun than simply killing vastly outmatched peons, I used to love messing with their heads when I played WoW. Basically, hang around them and do weird gestures, occasionally act as if I'm going to attack him. Maybe punch him now and then :p

[KingGorilla]

My philosophy is some people need dying, people different from me especially.

[Alkanos]

I have no issue with people roughly my level deciding to attack out of the blue while I'm fighting. That's fun since there's a chance (albeit sometimes small) that I'll manage to survive. So that kind of ganking is fine. It's actually one of the reasons I like to play on PvP servers. It's fun to find yourself suddenly in a tough fight when you least expect it. And it feels even better if you pull of juggling 2 mobs and a would-be assassin!

However, if you're a level invincible character picking on players that are level diminutive, that's not fun. That's annoying and aggravating. There's absolutely no chance to survive when your attacker is 20+ levels higher than you, and is bored. If you die, they sit on your corpse and wait for you to come back. If you run, you end up having to trek back to wherever you were, assuming you manage to get away from them. So it goes from an extra hint of challenge to damn annoying. If you get your jollies from picking on someone who can't fight back, that says something pretty bad about what kind of person you are.

[Inspector Fowler]

I have been killed 5 times (minimum) tonight by Horde who were ?? to me.

I have no interest in end-game in WoW. If I hit 70 (starting to get up there with my main), honestly, I'll probably just either quit or grief. The end-game in WoW is the most pointlessly circular shit I've ever seen, so I can see why people just start making up their own stuff to do.

[ClannerDelta]

However, if you're a level invincible character picking on players that are level diminutive, that's not fun. That's annoying and aggravating. There's absolutely no chance to survive when your attacker is 20+ levels higher than you, and is bored. If you die, they sit on your corpse and wait for you to come back. If you run, you end up having to trek back to wherever you were, assuming you manage to get away from them. So it goes from an extra hint of challenge to damn annoying. If you get your jollies from picking on someone who can't fight back, that says something pretty bad about what kind of person you are.

That's fair, but that sounds more like WoW mace-rogue douchery. It's also what I would consider griefing.

Is this thread in English?

Oh...Engrish. Got it! ;)

Reading many of your posts from... some strange place I can't remember. I consider you a forum ganker.

[sparkfizt]

I play on a PvP server in warcraft because it was a high pop server when I joined, and this was back long before cross server queues. I have a fairly simple set of rules when it comes to ganking.

I will not initiate a gank war.
If you gank me and win I'll do my damndest to find you and kill the hell out of you.
If you gank me and lose I may feel pity and not camp you.
In both cases I will generally corpse camp you for atleast 2 more kills, gotta teach em not to mess with me.
If I see someone on my side engage in a fair gank i'll let the fight run it's course and not help other than a rez.
If I see a fight but cant determine who started it, i'll give my bretheren the benefit of the doubt and help.
If you gank a lowbie I will camp the hell out of you ( I recently camped a guy all the way back to southshore, and when I got there I killed the flight master so he could'nt fly out, and since I was vigilant neither could he hearth) I tend to view camping lowbies as the lowest form of scum.

I dont really like ganking because it's not a fair fight. I believe in sort of a samurai code of honor. There is no honor killing someone who is unprepared, but to face someone and utterly defeat them is very rewarding.

[Satertek]

If I'm running along somewhere and I see a Destruction player, I'm gonna take him out regardless of level. (Well, unless he's higher ;) ) I don't, however, actively seek out players to gank by going to Destruction PQs but I don't hold it against people who do so as it's just part of the game.

I wouldn't consider this griefing, you run around by yourself at your own risk on Open RvR and I find it annoying that I can't kill the evil Destruction bad guy when I see them running along the road in a core ruleset server.

[ClannerDelta]

I wouldn't consider this griefing, you run around by yourself at your own risk on Open RvR and I find it annoying that I can't kill the evil Destruction bad guy when I see them running along the road in a core ruleset server.

This was the thing that made me re-roll my alts onto Dark Crag. The fact that I could encounter the random Order player on Red Eye Mountain and not be able to fight them. It was just jarring and really took from the initial immersion.

[Inspector Fowler]

I will always stop to help an Alliance player. Call it roll playing, I guess.

My definition of "ganking", though, was always waiting for somebody to be getting into a fight with a mob, and then attacking. I try to avoid that unless the guy has caused me to hate him by ganking or camping me previously.

While I will often ignore same/lower level Horde players, if I see an Alliance player in a fight, I'll help. I don't care if he's a griefer or a camper or a ganker. We're on the same side, and it's not like I'll stick around to do it later.

[darkbase]

Inspector, you should like the kind of guy I'd want to play WoW with. I have a love/hate relationship with that game. The players I often meet and it's time consuming nature pushed me away.

[Sandman]

I'll gank your wife in Fable 2.

[KingGorilla]

I'll gank your wife in Fable 2.

Not if I marry a dude.

[Kryopsis]

I dont really like ganking because it's not a fair fight. I believe in sort of a samurai code of honor. There is no honor killing someone who is unprepared, but to face someone and utterly defeat them is very rewarding.

This pretty much sums up my attitude towards ganking. However it is not ganking when it's a fair fight, say there's 2-3 level difference between you and neither of you are wounded to begin with. If you see an enemy running past you, attacking him (if you choose so) is a part of the game.

What is not part of the game is going to the newbie zones as a high level character with the explicit goal to murder everybody. I find that unacceptable.

Clanner, how do you manage to gank... in WAR?

[ClannerDelta]

Clanner, how do you manage to gank... in WAR?

The biggest and most common one? Numbers. Two players, in this game, against a single opponent that's within the 5 level range is pretty much an unwinnable fight. This game doesn't have the kind of controllable single target CC that allowed classes in DAoC to win against superior numbers.

As for the more fun one, picking a mid-range PQ. Something a chapter or two below you with friendly NPC's and fighting the player groups there. Using the PQ NPC's like you would use Keep NPC's(and treating it as a much smaller keep fight). This is the most productive one because people cluster at the PQ and they WILL overwhelm you. This is my favorite one. (http://www.wardb.com/pubquest.aspx?id=264) Coming here at 9-13 ensures a good fight. It's a PQ where the forces of Order are holding out against a Chaos onslaught. With Wagons and such set up as a makeshift perimeter. With Chaos guards and a spawn point right next to it. It's not as though you're particularly bothering those that don't want to fight.

We had a 20 Sorcerer attack us at our chap 3? maybe 4 PQ. Because of the level difference and lack of bolster, our regular attacks could do very little. However, our healer kept out of LoS while we snared/rooted/died until the sorc was at around 75% hp. Which is when we started to get our Morale abilities to pop. After the first 3 the sorc finally died. For those that don't know. Morale Abilities ignore level, apparently. You can even form a newb group to take out level 40 mobs that way.

Level 21 is essentially the top of the T1 level bracket. So you're not entirely at the mercy of a ganker. They will always be outnumbered. On top of that, there's a certain radius around the newby spawn in (rather large radius) which will insta-chicken anyone. You can also rest assured that it's probably a long run back from their spawn if they are even remotely inside your territory.

I would also like to point out that it's fairly hard to grief in WAR. There are so many camps and towns with instant kill guards. 3 separate PQ's per chapter per zone (9 places to quest your level). And with the new addition of /1 and /2 being region wide chat/RvR, lynch mobs gather in record time.

Which is ultimately why I gank in WAR. Going from the hunter to being the hunted is one of the best experiences in any PvP game.

When you're attacking that miner in EvE, it looks like you're about to get some expensive loot, and suddenly having his 2 Assault Frig/2 Battleship security force warp in. Epic

In DAoC running a Skald train, encountering a few raid straglers. Fighting them, then suddenly getting broadsided by another group.

In WAR, it's hitting a couple players here and there while running around, then encountering the pack of level 6-11's who bum rush you with all the fury of a Star Wars nerd defending the integrity of George Lucas. You will also run into many players around 18-21 in T1, either helping friends or hunting gankers.

That's why you roll on an Open RvR server. You can only scenario grind so long before you have to mess someone up.

[Goronmon]

I don't go out of my way to gank, but may jump a noob if the opportunity arose. Such as back in the old days of WoW when I played on a PvP server. Waiting for ZG run to start and me and a friend chased an alliance mage across almost the entire zone on our mounts before he got knocked off by a mob. Of course, we also did make sure the mob got the kill just for the extra repair bill, haha.

[SilentScreams]

I'm a complete pansy in most MMOs. In WoW, if I see an Alliance player getting ganked by mobs, I'll usually help out.
I did come close to going the other way once. It was in Tanaris in the pirate cove area. Some Alliance had PvP mode turned on and was on about 10% health, and so was the mob he was fighting. I had a mini-dilemma as to which one to Fire Blast. The good guy in me won out though, and I blasted the mob.

So the obvious answer is no, I don't gank. I also have a WoW guild that is always on standby if the Alliance decide to grief the Crossroads. We've ended so many attacks before they even started.

[ClannerDelta]

The good guy in me won out though, and I blasted the mob.

I respect that, but no way in hell would I not kill the player. :p

[Abednigo]

I follow the "do undo others" rule. But if I am repeatedly getting ganked by someone of a much higher level than me (like camping my corpse kind of thing), then I put their guild (if they're in one) on my personal hit list and will go after any of their fellow guild members I happen to run across, regardless of level (within reason of course). But thankfully I've gotten pretty good at holding my own with my 42 Warlock in WoW. I happened to pass a ?? player one day riding their horse. I kept moving but turned around to see if they would come after me. They did. I dove into water nearby and over to an NPC camp that was friendly to me (but not to him). I sicked my succubus on him and cast fear and DOTs on him repeatedly. That on top of the NPCs he was toast. I waited around for him to try and come back but after 20 minutes his corpse was still sitting there.

But I was defending myself there. He asked for it. Otherwise, I don't pick fights, but I will turn ganker if someone starts harassing me. I will definitely attack them in mid-combat then.

[Hotcod]

I may my points in the other thread.... people who gank tend to be assholes but the people who get ganked have rolled on a sever, by choice, where they know they may be ganked. They must have the reasons for it and so no one can be blamed as such just pointed at and told "you are a dick"

[Abednigo]

I may my points in the other thread.... people who gank tend to be assholes but the people who get ganked have rolled on a sever, by choice, where they know they may be ganked. They must have the reasons for it and so no one can be blamed as such just pointed at and told "you are a dick"

I can understand that to a point, but harassing someone to the point of being a jerk is just wrong. I've come across a group of ?? players in WoW. To my knowledge the "??" means they are 10+ levels above me. I have very little chance against one and no shot against a group of 5 or 6 of them. But they go through a zone (typically 15-20 levels below them) and just take out other players who are in combat. It's totally pathetic. I imagine people who do that are losers in real life and they get off ganging up on someone who has no chance. Like the bully at school who takes his gang around and beats up the lower classmen. Yes I know it's just a game, but it's the same principle. Like the adult who drives down the shoulder to cut in front of 50 cars probably used to cut in line during lunch in high school.

But since I know people will do that on a PVP server, I just keep fear handy and cast it until it sticks. Then I run my @$$ outta there. :D

[Hotcod]

Don't get me wrong it is pathetic, i'm not trying to say other wise... it's just that it's a simple fact of internet life and no matter how much we dislike it isn't going to change the age old adage "anonymity = asshole". It's simply wishful and naive thinking to roll on an open PvP server and expect that people are not going to be utter pathetic dicks and screw with you at lest once and as such any one rolling on a PvP server 99% of the time knows what there in for and as such you can't really feel to sorry for them. For what ever reasons they've made there choice to play in a place they can get ganked and harassed knowing that it's going to happen.

[QueQueg]

The fact that WAR has no corpse-runs makes me happy. It's harder to get griefed if you don't have to return to the scene of the crime.

[Ghostbear]

I do not, I consider it a dick move.

[shunoshi]

Short answer, yes. I'll clarify first by saying that I don't frequent noob zones. I don't travel the countyside looking for lowbies to gank. If an empire noob wants to be brave (and by brave I mean idiotic) and travel to a Chaos-heavy zone, they're going to get ganked. I play on a full pvp server (not core). If you choose to play on that type of server, ganking goes with the territory.

I also want to state that I don't grief. There is a big difference. If I'm traveling across a zone and come across an enemy, they die (well, sometimes I do). I don't stick around to see if they'll come back though; I continue on.

The game is called Warhammer after all.

[Abednigo]

[QUOTE=Hotcod;35711it isn't going to change the age old adage "anonymity = asshole". [/QUOTE]

That's very true. I remember my first vivid harassment (not on a PVP server), was in Everquest. I had just logged in and some guy was standing in front of me and just kept saying, "Gay." "You're gay." Confused as to what brought about this little display of maturity I scrolled out to see my character. The facial hair had changed to a massive moustache. Now, moustaches aren't gay (my Dad has a pretty cool one), but my character looked like one of the Village People. :rolleyes: I love the days when EQ characters hair would change randomly from day to day.

I think it ultimately comes down to maturity (duh).

[ClannerDelta]

I played EQ for a long time on a PvP server (Innoruk?) and switching to a PvE (Zebuxoruk) when the server launched.

I'll say right now, that WoW/WAR/AoC players have no idea what griefing really is. That may also be why I am not bothered in the least by ganking. Dishing it out or receiving it.

[Ghostbear]

Even on a Core server the opportunity for RvR is always in your face, why would you want to fuck with someone who is just trying to gain some XP or influence? I often find the definition of "ganking" and "griefing" depend entirely on your point of view.

[Johan]

Reading many of your posts from... some strange place I can't remember. I consider you a forum ganker.

Sweet! I'm at a high level! :D

[ClannerDelta]

Even on a Core server the opportunity for RvR is always in your face, why would you want to fuck with someone who is just trying to gain some XP or influence? I often find the definition of "ganking" and "griefing" depend entirely on your point of view.

To have something smaller than a 12 on 12 fight. All of the keep/fort fights I've been a part of have been zerg on zerg. Sure, it's nice, but it also tends to restrict my class to a couple moves. Gheal>Hot>Hot>Hot>rez>Repeat.

Sometimes I want smaller scale PvP. Until there is some real incentive to get people out of the warcamps I'll be stuck hunting people for that smaller pvp.

[shunoshi]

To have something smaller than a 12 on 12 fight. All of the keep/fort fights I've been a part of have been zerg on zerg. Sure, it's nice, but it also tends to restrict my class to a couple moves. Gheal>Hot>Hot>Hot>rez>Repeat.

Sometimes I want smaller scale PvP. Until there is some real incentive to get people out of the warcamps I'll be stuck hunting people for that smaller pvp.

This is my favorite form of PVP. Also, there is no better feeling than to be fighting a mob, having someone attempt to gank you mid-fight, and taking them both out. :D That's part of the excitement of play on the full-pvp servers.

Of course, it doesn't always turn out like that. If you die, big deal, there is next to no penalty for dying in this game. There is no corpse retrieval and the cost to heal is a couple silver. You can't really even grief in this game. Try retrieving your corpse playing WoW while camped by a group of enemies. That's something to get pissed about.

[Inspector Fowler]

The other day I got ganked and killed. I rezed, and healed. Oops, he was corpse camping me. I was just under full health and I only had 1/3 mana. But the new D.O.T.s WoW had given me, combined with the natural DPS of a Shadow Priest + my bubble meant that the second after I re-died, he died too. It was a good feeling.

[ClannerDelta]

Of course, it doesn't always turn out like that. If you die, big deal, there is next to no penalty for dying in this game. There is no corpse retrieval and the cost to heal is a couple silver. You can't really even grief in this game. Try retrieving your corpse playing WoW while camped by a group of enemies. That's something to get pissed about.

Try playing EQ and having an Enchanter charm you and run you into the depths of a dungeon. :D You just lost all your gear.

[shunoshi]

Try playing EQ and having an Enchanter charm you and run you into the depths of a dungeon. :D You just lost all your gear.

EQ was the worst. I never had it that bad...but it got bad.... :(

[Lint of Death]

I kind of miss the madness of the Darktide server in Asheron's Call, even if I never played on it much. There were no factions, just everybody against everybody else from level 1.

[Reverant]

I disapprove because it's unfair and somewhat akin to wandering into a little league game and stomping all over children. Certainly indicative of being a douche ;)

[Hotcod]

If you choose to play on that type of server, ganking goes with the territory.

Like i said, you shouldn't free sorry for any one getting ganked beacuse they made a choice but that dose not make the person doing the ganking any less of an ass

[LongStepMantis]

I don't care for it, but you better bet your ass you're getting payback if you wanna be a tough guy and pick on people a lot weaker than you are.

Worst gank I ever received was back in UO. Some clan of idiots decided to use the super steal hack and clean out our inventories instantly. Then they just talked trash and used GM poisoned weapons to put me and 2 other people down. There was about 9 of them. It was completely unprovoked, and they were all using cheat progs. As far as levels...UO didn't have those, but given that they were cheating, they were really tough for people who were all naked. They had to be using other progs as well.

The great part was that in the jumble, one of our guys (after they cleaned us out) managed to steal a rune off of one of them, and I guess they assumed that our inventories were empty, because they ran off talking shit without looting us...that rune went directly into their guildhouse. We took everything they had, it took all of us several trips to carry it all. Then he left a rune called "Payback...signed, our clan" on the empty floor. Just in case they used it, it went to a poison elemental spawn room.

The good ole days. :D

[shunoshi]

I think we have to define what "ganking" is. Is it a 5-level gap? 10 levels? 20+? I personally consider it to be anything outside of about 5 levels. With a 5 level difference you have a hefty advantage and will most likely roll over your enemy.

If we view this as the case, players with this level gap could easily be leveling in the same zone together and cross paths.

Let's consider the options when this happens:

1) You attack and kill the level 13 lowb with your level 18. You're officially a "ganker". You can now go about your leveling in peace without the threat of enemy attack (for now). More than likely, the level 13 will quest elsewhere knowing that there are high level enemies in the area...at least that's what I do in that situation.

2) You ignore the level 13 and continue your leveling. You begin fighting level 21 quest mob to finish up a quest. Just as you're about to kill the mob, you get jumped by Mr. Level 13. You're now at half health from the mob you were fighting and have to deal with both. Unable to recover from the surprise attack, you die.

Now, there are obviously different things that can happen in this scenario and I've only picked two. There's a chance that you and the level 13 guy will just leave each other in wonderful care bear peace. There's also the chance that you smiting this poor level 13 will bring the wrath of his friends upon your head. That's the chance you take when playing a PVP oriented game.

Thinking someone is a douche for killing a lowb that's in his way is kinda weak sauce though. It's part of the game....


/rant

As an aside, if you're talking about a 20+ level gap, then yes, you're being an ass when you gank someone. This is why the servers turn you into a chicken. ;)

[Lint of Death]

The great part was that in the jumble, one of our guys (after they cleaned us out) managed to steal a rune off of one of them, and I guess they assumed that our inventories were empty, because they ran off talking shit without looting us...that rune went directly into their guildhouse. We took everything they had, it took all of us several trips to carry it all. Then he left a rune called "Payback...signed, our clan" on the empty floor. Just in case they used it, it went to a poison elemental spawn room.

The good ole days. :D

That was some incredibly fast thinking on his part! The perfect revenge.

And shunoshi, that's actually a good point regarding how not ganking has the potential to screw you over.

[ClannerDelta]

I disapprove because it's unfair and somewhat akin to wandering into a little league game and stomping all over children. Certainly indicative of being a douche ;)
That would be a dead man. 20-30 angry kids armed with bats and protective headgear? Rambo couldn't even handle that shit.

[Ghostbear]

This can be a big grey area. However, if I find out anyone in my guild is harassing other players? well, they can go find another guild.

[Schnoogs]

I had to look up the term ganking...you learn something new everyday.

[ClannerDelta]

This can be a big grey area. However, if I find out anyone in my guild is harassing other players? well, they can go find another guild.

There is no harassment on a Core server. If you're in an RvR lake, you're bolstered, and you're fair game.

Ganking only applies to Open RvR servers.

[rifter]

I gank if the mood strikes. Generally, if a guy is fighting a mob, I just go about my business. If he is low level, and crosses my path, and I feel like squishing him... well, I squish him. I have been ganked in PvP on WoW, that I don't honestly care about the oposition anymore. They will gank when it is their turn, so I am just front-loading the balance. Before WoW, I would never gank.

But, I never camp corpses, and I will come to the aid of an enemy if he is in a rough PvE fight. I don't gank often, and generally have to be in a bad mood for that to happen... or, find one that is lurking at our fringes, looking for an opportunity kill.

[Ghostbear]

There is no harassment on a Core server. If you're in an RvR lake, you're bolstered, and you're fair game.

Ganking only applies to Open RvR servers.

agreed, 100%

[Kielaran]

When I played WoW, it really depended on the situation. I was a druid, to put things in easy perspective.

1. You started it...well unless you killed me instantly, meaning I was heavily damaged already, you would most likely not kill me. I could heal really quick, throw some HoTs on and travel form away. Than I will harass you until you get 3-4 more guys there or you leave, no matter how many hours it took (damn was I addicted).

2. You were a known gold farmer. There were a few infamous farmers on our server who were fun to kill, especially because of no retaliation.

3. You attacked Luciana (our best known horde gold farmer). I farmed in a similar area and figured that I would be next, so I protected him/her. I got to skin everything and was funneled a few blues for the trouble.

4. Your guild was engaging a world boss. I was so hated for this. I would pull the boss to them early. I would stun their tank (cat form stun opener then war stomp) to ruin the positioning. I would kill healers or drag extra mobs to them. Damn, was I hated, but it was fun.

[ClannerDelta]

4. Your guild was engaging a world boss. I was so hated for this. I would pull the boss to them early. I would stun their tank (cat form stun opener then war stomp) to ruin the positioning. I would kill healers or drag extra mobs to them. Damn, was I hated, but it was fun.


You should come play WAR. ;)

[Kryopsis]

I think we have to define what "ganking" is. Is it a 5-level gap? 10 levels? 20+? I personally consider it to be anything outside of about 5 levels. With a 5 level difference you have a hefty advantage and will most likely roll over your enemy.

If we view this as the case, players with this level gap could easily be leveling in the same zone together and cross paths.

Let's consider the options when this happens:

1) You attack and kill the level 13 lowb with your level 18. You're officially a "ganker". You can now go about your leveling in peace without the threat of enemy attack (for now). More than likely, the level 13 will quest elsewhere knowing that there are high level enemies in the area...at least that's what I do in that situation.

2) You ignore the level 13 and continue your leveling. You begin fighting level 21 quest mob to finish up a quest. Just as you're about to kill the mob, you get jumped by Mr. Level 13. You're now at half health from the mob you were fighting and have to deal with both. Unable to recover from the surprise attack, you die.

Now, there are obviously different things that can happen in this scenario and I've only picked two. There's a chance that you and the level 13 guy will just leave each other in wonderful care bear peace. There's also the chance that you smiting this poor level 13 will bring the wrath of his friends upon your head. That's the chance you take when playing a PVP oriented game.

Thinking someone is a douche for killing a lowb that's in his way is kinda weak sauce though. It's part of the game....


/rant

As an aside, if you're talking about a 20+ level gap, then yes, you're being an ass when you gank someone. This is why the servers turn you into a chicken. ;)

Ganking in WAR is almost non-existent because of the game mechanics and the very limited death penalty. I have no problem with people crossing paths and ending up killing each-other. I'd have a problem if a level 20 would run to the noob zones with nothing but the intent of causing grief. If you just happen to stumble upon some poor guy several levels below you, well, then the above applies. I am sure a Warhammer Orc wouldn't think about the moral repercussions of his actions if he happens to meet a Dwarf in some dark cave. I would even argue that it's a part of the game.

The game is made with the PVP in mind and its name is abbreviated as WAR. Why the hell not? Besides, I can always take my frustration by killing people in PVP scenarios.

Ganking in WoW, on the other hand...

[ClannerDelta]

This rather varied gathering of "Ganking" definitions had me wondering about a common practice a few friends and mine had in WoW (early launch, before BC).

The trio of us played most of the game together as a Druid and two hunters. Clearly, we hated ourselves. Any kind of traditional group with a Priest/Druid and Warrior combo would beat us out most of the time.

In order to deal with the corpse camping for my two hunter buddies, who weren't as fortunate as I was when it came to escaping these sorts of situations, we kept 3 level 30ish Rogue alts handy.

Well, we would often kill groups of players many levels above our own. Using the large amount of single target CC and DPS that the Rogue class had.

As these players were often camping or outright griefing our mains. We would often stay there the rest of the day just keeping them from doing anything. We managed to do this to a full level 60 group at one point. Keeping Sap/gouge/stun dust etc up. By that point I think we had leveled to 40ish on the PvP kill xp alone. Without a Mace-Rogue I might add. And obviously it didn't work ALL the time, but a 3 Rogue group was fairly hard to beat at the time.

Would this be a case of Reverse-ganking? Using lower levels to kill otherwise unkillable groups for your mains?

[Hotcod]

i think if you where just doing it to random people it would count as greifing rather than ganking... but i'm surprised that you did so well with it a full 60 group shouldn't have had that much trouble with rouges even pre nerfs unless they where freaking stupid, i can see you annoying them a hell of a lot but killing a 60 in a full group just with 3 rouges? you might have gotten one or two if you went after one target but ya... theroycrafting aside (my main in wow was a rouge)... like i said i think that they should have had a fair chance againts you and as such isn't ganking but the fact you kept doing it is greifing...

Ganking is, to me at lest, when you get rolled. You have no chance to defend your self and there is almost no hope of getting away. Which means some one on very low HP fighting a mob can be ganked by some one of lower levels even but it's mostly high levels killing lower levels... if you get camped and keep on getting ganked then the ganking also becomes greifing and so on

[Zabyx]

I find it hilarious when people jump on another account and tell you to stop ganking them. That's the only time I will go out of my way to gank people (not camp, mind you, but if we're questing in a similar place and I see them again, they go poof).

[Vyzov]

If I am playing a game that has a PVP element to it, if I see you, I will fucking kill you. I won't purposely stalk a lowbie area to kill low level people, but If I'm traveling from point A to point B and you are somewhere in between, you're fucking dead.

[ClannerDelta]

i think if you where just doing it to random people it would count as greifing rather than ganking... but i'm surprised that you did so well with it a full 60 group shouldn't have had that much trouble with rouges even pre nerfs unless they where freaking stupid, i can see you annoying them a hell of a lot but killing a 60 in a full group just with 3 rouges? you might have gotten one or two if you went after one target but ya... theroycrafting aside (my main in wow was a rouge)... like i said i think that they should have had a fair chance againts you and as such isn't ganking but the fact you kept doing it is greifing...

Eh, most WoW players were Terran Mill retards at the time. No BG's and no Arena.

Also, we were all in the same room at that time. So communication was excellent. Keeping CC on the tank while taking out the healer, using Vanish to re-sap, etc.

Also, the best way to take out a group was to wait for them to mount up. There's always someone who is way slower than everyone else to mount up. So you stayed a fair distance out so they couldn't see you, then one person sprint + gouge the stragler. Take him down re-stealth and gank the healers.

It wasn't that hard at all. With all the powerful rogue cooldowns, it wasn't hard to just ignore melee and focus the healers down. After that, it was just a case of outlasting the tanks. Everytime they attack one, he runs off, etc.

We had the same gear, the same style of names. (illi, ilil, illl) So telling three Troll Rogues with similar names, armor, and weapons apart was a bit hard. :D

Stealth + powerful single target DPS + powerful CC + Powerful Cooldowns. Rogues were easily the best class in the game.

[Hotcod]

Rogues are awesome like i said i'm just surprised at just how well you did do given the level difference but seems like you really knew what you where doing and so on so i can see it working if the other side didn't really know how to deal with it... a few good rouges working well together could still really mess things up in PvP the last i was playing and that was only a while back really... post BC and way after the major nerfing heh

[Deadend]

Ganking to me is starting a fight when there is no chance of losing. Griefing is doing it over and over to someone.

I do not like either of them.

They are really sad ways to get your fun, by trying to make other people unhappy. And yes, it is different from kicking ass in Counter Strike, as at least they have a fucking chance.

[Scaryfaced]

I gank. I've ganked before, I'll gank again. I feel that the term "gank" gives it a seriously negative connotation, though. I prefer to call it the element of suprise.

So every so often, I get to element of suprise the fuck out of a bunch of unsuspecting n00bs. Then they cry their salt tears and I laugh the laugh of the MMO asshole. Preferably, with lots of emotes and my vheminantly denying ever been there.
________
HOMEMADE VAPORIZER (http://homemadevaporizers.info/)

[RandoM51]

Ganking is always fun in a consensual PvP/RvR environment. I tried to dedicate an hour of each play period to cruising shared PvE areas for enemies with their RvR flag on.

[ClannerDelta]

They are really sad ways to get your fun, by trying to make other people unhappy.

If you're on a PvP server in any game and being ganked makes you "unhappy". This (http://www.hellokittyonline.com/us/) is your solution!

[Karmakin]

Ganking, hell no.

World PvP, including city raids and objective-based PvP, hell yes.

WoW famously isn't balanced for 1v1. It's especially not balanced for ambush based 1v1. There's too many stuns and things that lose control of your character for that.

[QueQueg]

Speaking of which, I thought I read someplace that the WAR designers didn't like CC that makes you lose control of your character. I got mezzed by a Shadow-whatever last night in a scenario that lasted a good 30 seconds (seemed like it anyway.) I couldn't move, just throw stupid choppa's and that pointy-eared bitch. I was like 2 pixels away from cleaving her f'ing head off when she did it too.

Man I was mad :)

[Hotcod]

you can be rooted but you can still 'act' there's no stuns or fears

[VerseD]

I love fighting people around my level, but I always try to make it a fair fight (no mobs involved). I don't mind getting attacked while fighting mobs, but what really grinds my gears is high level players who run in and one-shot me. Honestly, what do they get out of that?

I have no interest in end-game in WoW. If I hit 70 (starting to get up there with my main), honestly, I'll probably just either quit or grief. The end-game in WoW is the most pointlessly circular shit I've ever seen, so I can see why people just start making up their own stuff to do.

First thing I did after hitting 70 was fly around Netherstorm killing every Horde I saw. That was fun for about ten minutes, and then I canceled my account.

[Scaryfaced]

I really want to rant about the merits of ganking, mosty in the fact that people take MMOs entirely too seriously and need to disconnect themselves from their avatar's experiences, but apparently we're talking about WoW ganking and that doesn't really count in my book.
________
Fix Ps3 (http://fixps3.info/)

[Hotcod]

I really want to rant about the merits of ganking, mosty in the fact that people take MMOs entirely too seriously and need to disconnect themselves from their avatar's experiences, but apparently we're talking about WoW ganking and that doesn't really count in my book.

ah so how you enjoy the game is the right way and as such you get to dictate the way other people play? interesting.

[Scaryfaced]

ah so how you enjoy the game is the right way and as such you get to dictate the way other people play? interesting.

How did you get that out of my comment? Where did I ever say anything remotely like that? Stop infusing your own bad opinion of pvp into my innocuous rants.

I don't care how other's play games. In an MMO, your paying to play, so get your money's worth. Do what makes you happy. If that means picking flowers all day, thats cool. If it means hunting down flower pickers, thats cool too. My problem is that people are entirely too devoted to their online persona and what happens to it. They act like any transgressions upon their 80th level troll mage or whatever is like a personal attack against the player. I'm of the opinion that if a game was designed to allow other players to attack you at any given time, your fair game to be attacked. If this doesn't suit your sensabilities, go play somewhere safe. I hear Hello Kitty Online is doing pretty well these days.

If you don't want to be attacked, that's your perogative. However, it's my perogative to freely attack you if I see fit and to laugh to myself when you spend the next 20 minutes telling me what a horrible person I am, usually followed by a string of cuss words that'd make a trucker blush. Maybe you should learn how to protect yourself and be more aware of your surroundings, you wont end up dead half as often.

As I said, I don't play WoW, so this probably goes against the sensabilities of your average faction grinder or dragon cave plummer or pet collector or whatever the hell it is you do in that game for fun.
________
Interracial Couple (http://www.fucktube.com/categories/702/couple/videos/1)

[Hotcod]

heavy edit

Seem i took your first post out of context then. To me it seemed you where implying that people take the game too seriously and should disconnect and as such you should be allowed to gank them. Since you where talking about the merits of ganking and so on. I'm sorry that i misunderstood exactly what you where saying there.

As i've said in this thread any one on a PvP server knows what there in for and you shouldn't feel sorry for them and they shouldn't get worked up over it. I just don't think there is any excuse for ganking other than being a dick... which is fine in it's own way given that the people your are ganking are accepting it will happen but i'd just like to see people be honestly about it. If you kill some one who has no chance at all what so ever to defend them selfs it's a dick move, it may be a dick move you enjoy or that you think is "right" in the rules of a PvP server but it's still a dick move.

You also mistake my views of PvP, i really like PvP in mmos, WAR is being a lot of fun... but for the most part i play on non PvP servers beacuse being ganked is just not fun. Which is a shame beacuse there is a lot of good fun stuff that can come out of open PvP it just so abused by people being assholes the fun get drowned out for me

[QueQueg]

Every so often I flag myself in moderately contested zones, just for the thrill. It's fun. I also like having the option of deciding whether I'm in the mood to be hunted, or whether I just want to finish some PQ's.

If you rolled on Open RvR, then you made that choice when you rolled. You can't unmake it. No need to get upset for getting ganked then, right?

[ClannerDelta]

If you rolled on Open RvR, then you made that choice when you rolled. You can't unmake it. No need to get upset for getting ganked then, right?

You're definitely right, especially in this game. Unless you're somewhere off in the middle of nowhere in Troll Country, you're probably a minute from wherever you were to begin with. Without any death penalty.

[QueQueg]

You're definitely right, especially in this game. Unless you're somewhere off in the middle of nowhere in Troll Country, you're probably a minute from wherever you were to begin with. Without any death penalty.

Which is my favorite part. Call me a care-bear, I don't mind. 40 copper to remove the curse, and no repair bills? Okie-dokie, I'll pay up.

[Lint of Death]

The only problem with voluntarily flagging yourself is your enemy gets the first strike :p

[Savok]

Back before BC, I played on PvP servers (another way the PAA fucked my enjoyment).

One day, I was lvling a warrior, in the middle of a tough I was about to win and bam, ganked by some asshole. I rezed he ganked me again, went back and he still camping my corpse. I then logged onto my 60 hunter and proceeded to camp him for the next 2 hours. He tried to rez at the graveyard, I camped it too. He tried hiding, I had tracking. He couldn't even get any distance, I was ranged and faster. Two solid hours.

By the end all he did was stand there and /cry as I killed him over and over. It was at that point I decided to stop playing on PvP servers.

This is why you should never gank, because the person you gank might be brain sick.

[QueQueg]

I had a similar WoW experience. I got ganked/camped/griefed for about 10 minutes before I switched to my main, called in about 10 guildies, and punished the poor fool for a good 30 minutes. Eventually, a big clan of alliance players came to the dude's aid, and we had a big open-world brawl.

It all started with a gank. In retrospect, it was quite fun, and I'm sure that both sides enjoyed it.

[RandoM51]

you can be rooted but you can still 'act' there's no stuns or fears

This is not true, FYI.

DoKs get an AoE stun as a morale 2 ability at the start of T3. 600 base damage + 5 sec stun on everybody within 30 yards I think it is. Very useful in a good party with voicecomms as 5 seconds without healing is enough to demolish the back line or take out 1-2 tanks. Also great for those people who are running away trying to heal themselves or get healed. 600 damage pre-crit is often a kill and if it doesn't you finish them off in the next 5 seconds with your finisher.

While there are no fears there are knockdowns and knockbacks which ignore immunity timers.

T3 and T4 even roots are extremely deadly to any non-tank class, particularly when it is an unbreakable/unpurgeable root which happens seemingly frequently. Very easy for a Bright Wizard to kill my rooted character in 2(with crits) to 4(without crits) seconds.

DoK has a purge but a Bright Wizard will have 3-4 DoTs ticking on you along with the firecage and you're rolling the dice praying that patch wounds takes down the cage and not one of the DoTs. It never breaks on DoT damage---which makes sense I suppose.

[QueQueg]

On my Sorc I got Grip of Fear (http://www.wardb.com/spell.aspx?id=9477) last night, and it pretty much changed the game for this toon. I'm playing him like I played mage in WoW. I was having too much fun with it, rooting and decimating melee'ers.

I started hitting top 3 in damage. It works so well in T1 battlegrounds, Order melee didn't know what hit them, since at that level, I guess they have no way to unroot.

[Hotcod]

This is not true, FYI.

Fair dose, i was told they wanted to avoid taking control away so there wasn't stuff like fears and struns just roots and the like... seems i was told wrong... at my level i've never had anything else but rooting happen so far which is nice

[ClannerDelta]

Fair dose, i was told they wanted to avoid taking control away so there wasn't stuff like fears and struns just roots and the like... seems i was told wrong... at my level i've never had anything else but rooting happen so far which is nice

CC gets progressively worse, until it just gets ridiculous with AoE Magnet+AoE Silence+AoE Stun/Root/Knockdown.

This is the only game I've ever seen PvP AoE grinding.

[Illuminus]

Well, i sometimes go to the dwarf starting area in WAR to "make a few friends". It is especially fun forcing them into their tavern and having a good old western shooter... :o

[Kryopsis]

This is the only game I've ever seen PvP AoE grinding.

Sorry to sound like a broken record but I'd like to mention Guild Wars again. AoE farming, AoE grinding and AoE PVP insanity. All in one game.

Despite this, Guild Wars remains one of the most balanced games on the market. I would argue that whether or not a game has AoE grinding, it does not mean it is unbalanced.

[rifter]

T3 and T4 even roots are extremely deadly to any non-tank class, particularly when it is an unbreakable/unpurgeable root which happens seemingly frequently. Very easy for a Bright Wizard to kill my rooted character in 2(with crits) to 4(without crits) seconds.

DoK has a purge but a Bright Wizard will have 3-4 DoTs ticking on you along with the firecage and you're rolling the dice praying that patch wounds takes down the cage and not one of the DoTs. It never breaks on DoT damage---which makes sense I suppose.

Hmmm... another BW are gods post. ho-hum.

Before anyone believes this, a DoK is a pain in the ass to take down, as a BW. It is VERY rare that, at an equal level, I can bring one down. The Firecage has a 50% of being broken on damage, except for DOT ticks. If you APPLY a dot during that time, it has a 50% chance of breaking.

If you are taken down in 2 seconds, with crits, you are already toast. At best, 2 seconds is 1 tick. Now, if you are fully dotted, take a fireball, and then a mage bolt... MAYBE. But, it takes a LOT more than 2 seconds to reach that point. Not to mention, you need to have 100% combustion, which means that each spell has a 50% chance to eat away 20% of the BW's hit points.

Just to give you an idea, I am PRETTY good with my Bright Wizard. At 21, I was in ORvR. Opposite of me, was a magus. One on one, I should destroy a character like a magus. At worst, I took him down 50% of the time. Every other time, he could run away. I will admit, we are the most powerful class. We are supposed to be. We are the quintessential glass cannon. Take a few hits at 100%, and we are nearly dead. An equal level counter (Witch Elf) will literally take us down in under 4 seconds. Being snared by a tank, they can drop us quickly. We have almost 0 surviability, in melee. We can't burn a single tank down, when they come at us. We CAN sometimes, take down a squishy melee.

Sorry to sound like a broken record but I'd like to mention Guild Wars again. AoE farming, AoE grinding and AoE PVP insanity. All in one game.


Nothing personal, but GW wasn't really a MMORPG. It had similiarities, and is the closest thing by far, to an MMORPG... but it is still a good distance away.

[Vasanni]

I gank solely to begin battles. I cant count the number of times my brother and myself have locked down a low level horde town simply to wait for the big guns to show up. I can recall one battle in crossroads that probably lasted upwards of 4 hours with my pvp guild of rl friends just taking on wave after wave of horde. I dont gank out of hatred, i gank out boredom and love of unstructered pvp.

[SilentScreams]

I gank solely to begin battles. I cant count the number of times my brother and myself have locked down a low level horde town simply to wait for the big guns to show up. I can recall one battle in crossroads that probably lasted upwards of 4 hours with my pvp guild of rl friends just taking on wave after wave of horde. I dont gank out of hatred, i gank out boredom and love of unstructered pvp.

This is a good point.
As I mentioned earlier, I have a guild dedicated to protecting Crossroads and other prime targets from the Alliance, and as well as helping out lowbies and getting a good reputation because of it, we've also been involved in some excellent battles.

[RandoM51]

Hmmm... another BW are gods post. ho-hum.

Before anyone believes this, a DoK is a pain in the ass to take down, as a BW. It is VERY rare that, at an equal level, I can bring one down. The Firecage has a 50% of being broken on damage, except for DOT ticks. If you APPLY a dot during that time, it has a 50% chance of breaking.

If you are taken down in 2 seconds, with crits, you are already toast. At best, 2 seconds is 1 tick. Now, if you are fully dotted, take a fireball, and then a mage bolt... MAYBE. But, it takes a LOT more than 2 seconds to reach that point. Not to mention, you need to have 100% combustion, which means that each spell has a 50% chance to eat away 20% of the BW's hit points.

Just to give you an idea, I am PRETTY good with my Bright Wizard. At 21, I was in ORvR. Opposite of me, was a magus. One on one, I should destroy a character like a magus. At worst, I took him down 50% of the time. Every other time, he could run away. I will admit, we are the most powerful class. We are supposed to be. We are the quintessential glass cannon. Take a few hits at 100%, and we are nearly dead. An equal level counter (Witch Elf) will literally take us down in under 4 seconds. Being snared by a tank, they can drop us quickly. We have almost 0 surviability, in melee. We can't burn a single tank down, when they come at us. We CAN sometimes, take down a squishy melee.


Another post from a T2 who doesn't seem to comprehend that things change in the higher tiers.

I didn't say Bright Wizards were god, but your very defensive reaction is revealing.

As far as DoKs being hard to take down that peaks mid-T2. They still remain tough in higher tiers in a 1v1 vs melee or hybrid but since that might happen once every eight hours(the game is zerg vs. zerg, not 1v1) it is not relevant. Against nukers though they become very easy meat.

You don't know this yet because you're not there yet. Perhaps you should get there and then come back. Perhaps you should get to the point where you can hit hybrids multiple times for 1500+ in one combat round and come back. Perhaps you should get to that point and realize that hybrids, DoKs included are your favorite target because they're so easy to kill since they're in medium armor, have 4500-5000HP, and are reliant upon a couple HoTs that heal about 10% of the damage you can deal out in the same amount of time?

...and this wasn't a complaint about Bright Wizards. It was just an explanation of T4 gameplay. You have a lot to look forward to in T4, where you won't have to kite anymore, all you'll need as a Bright Wizard is an ironhand with guard on you and then you can go toe to toe in the front line and AoE down anybody who gets in range... particularly effective vs. the DoK since that class can't do anything to you from range.

I've been there. Perhaps before telling people not to believe me you should go there too and report back?

Oh, one last thing. I have no opinion on "Bright Wizards" are gods, but I do find it curious that they are the most common order class in T4 scenario play. Maybe they're just shiny? :)

[ClannerDelta]

Sorry Rifter, but Immo BW's are broken.

- Their dots benefit from Combustion without the draw back

- Their dots debuff corporeal resists by an amount that is near guaranteed to drop even a person focusing on corp resists into the negatives.

- Lack of casting times gives exceptional mobility, with the full 100ft range.

- Playing with Fire is an extremely powerful spell with no direct mirror (with the destruction counterpart being much weaker). PoF being a 50% healing debuff with a "Healer backlash" side effect. Dealing X amount of damage to anyone healing the person for 10 seconds. Ticks on HoT's.

The spec simply overshadows every single dps class in the game. Sorcs included. The only time you see a BW not spec'd for this is if they are in a magnet group.

[digitalErich]

I don't play one and while I think they might be slightly OP (not in the higher tier yet) I think you're going a bit overboard there Clanner. If you list out bullet points of half the classes and their abilities at end game with no context you can make them sound OP.

Also, even within scenarios, I don't think the lower tiers are really structured for gameplay that the classes are intended for. Like Random said, this is a Zerg vs Zerg game...you shouldn't expect to be able to take down every class, even equal (or lower) skill assumed.

[ClannerDelta]

I don't play one and while I think they might be slightly OP (not in the higher tier yet) I think you're going a bit overboard there Clanner. If you list out bullet points of half the classes and their abilities at end game with no context you can make them sound OP.

There's a reason there are so many of them. I also can't figure out if the last part of that is directed at me. I simply don't care that I can't kill them. It's just that I can't heal anyone they are fighting.

[digitalErich]

Nope, second paragraph isn't at you, sorry. I agree that PwF is OP, but the rest of the stuff I'm not so sure about...I'd lean towards leave it alone.

[SilentScreams]

Guys? Not to be rude or anything, but there's an official WAR thread where you can have class wars. ;)

[ClannerDelta]

Guys? Not to be rude or anything, but there's an official WAR thread where you can have class wars. ;)

I'm just ganking my own thread.

[Dukefrukem]

Best Griefing ever @ 4:05

JUPzN7tp7bQ

[Scaryfaced]

CC gets progressively worse, until it just gets ridiculous with AoE Magnet+AoE Silence+AoE Stun/Root/Knockdown.

This is the only game I've ever seen PvP AoE grinding.

I feel compelled to mention that Shadowbane has been using AoEs to rediculous extent since '03. AoE pvp isn't a brand new concept. Off the top of my head, I can think of AoE stuns, roots, snares, debuffs, heals ,DoTs, silence, direct damage, root/stun/snare breaks, dispells, flight and a few random others. Honestly, I dont think it's much to brag about. Shadowbane seiges turned into relatively borring stack fights with either side trying to grind down the other. I hopw WAR doesn't turn out that way.
________
Navistar t444e engine (http://www.ford-wiki.com/wiki/Navistar_T444E_engine)

[ClannerDelta]

I feel compelled to mention that Shadowbane has been using AoEs to rediculous extent since '03. AoE pvp isn't a brand new concept. Off the top of my head, I can think of AoE stuns, roots, snares, debuffs, heals ,DoTs, silence, direct damage, root/stun/snare breaks, dispells, flight and a few random others. Honestly, I dont think it's much to brag about. Shadowbane seiges turned into relatively borring stack fights with either side trying to grind down the other. I hopw WAR doesn't turn out that way.

People are confusing AoE's being used in PvP as AoE PvP grinding.

AoE's have been in every PvP MMO I can think of. The difference is, it's not normal for the same 3 or 4 steps to be used by a group constantly to ensure victory like they do in Scenarios.

Run up, magnet, AoE silence/root/stun, AoE damage. Over and over and over and over. It literally is grinding exp on players like they were bots.

[rifter]

Another post from a T2 who doesn't seem to comprehend that things change in the higher tiers.

I didn't say Bright Wizards were god, but your very defensive reaction is revealing.

...

Oh, one last thing. I have no opinion on "Bright Wizards" are gods, but I do find it curious that they are the most common order class in T4 scenario play. Maybe they're just shiny? :)

I would say the BW power peaks at lvl 21. That seemed to be the point that I kicked the most ass. Since then, I have felt gimped. My AOE won't go to the top of keep walls, taking out siege engines, people manning them, and people fixing them. I don't have an AOE that just stays up, and follows me all around... I don't know. Mid-way through T3, the Sorc seeems VERY powerful in RvR.

I think the reason you see them in T4 a lot more, is because people figured out the AOE PvE bonux XP exploit. So, now a lot got there, and they have no one to fight. On my server, they have topped out, and are rolling new characters.

This game is about balance. An all BW team will get STOMPED on... I have been there. That was the WORST pug scenerio I ever played. We output a TON of damage, yes... but die when you sneeze on us. If our combust isn't at 100... we can't do shit for damage. We live and die on our crits...

Sorry Rifter, but Immo BW's are broken.

- Their dots benefit from Combustion without the draw back


Every time I cast a DOT, I have a chance for an explosion. Over the LIFE of the dot, I do as much damage as say a fireball... yet, you want every TICK to have a chance to damage me for roughly 2x what each tick does to the target?


- Their dots debuff corporeal resists by an amount that is near guaranteed to drop even a person focusing on corp resists into the negatives.


Full-up the immo tree, gives boil blood a -378 corporal negative. Half our our dots do elemental damage (that I looked at), most don't do corporal damage.


- Lack of casting times gives exceptional mobility, with the full 100ft range.

Yes, for the weaker dots, I have full 100ft range. Not the more powerful one. Our most powerful spells all have 3 second cast times.


- Playing with Fire is an extremely powerful spell with no direct mirror (with the destruction counterpart being much weaker). PoF being a 50% healing debuff with a "Healer backlash" side effect. Dealing X amount of damage to anyone healing the person for 10 seconds. Ticks on HoT's.


Thus far, PwF is ho-hum for me. I generally prefer the cast time to concentrate on a target with real damage, not reduced healing. If someone is healing the hell out of a target like that, I prefer to change targets. While the healer heals the target up, I can take the next target down. In certain circumstances, PwF is VERY cool... Once the numbers of the enemy get reduced. When in open combat, early on, it doesn't do ALL that much. At least, in my experience, it has been VERY rare to help me finish a target off.


The spec simply overshadows every single dps class in the game. Sorcs included. The only time you see a BW not spec'd for this is if they are in a magnet group.

It is SUPPOSED to. The BW, from day one, has been said it was the most powerful DPS class, even compared to its mirror. The sorc has some pretty damn powerful abilities too, but there are so few of them, you don't see how nasty they can be. Trust me, putting an AOE at the top of a wall, is pretty obnxiously powerful. At the base of a wall, it is difficult to get line of sight on them... and they just blow up siege engines.

Honestly, I would love to see all the nay-sayers play the class. I know I have had a few friends play it, and they can't see how I can stand the class. It takes a lot of finesse to play well. Otherwise, you just, often... To enemies, and yourself.

[CptTripps]

I don't have a technical term for it (grief vs. gank). But I do kill folks sometimes when I feel the need. Someone a few levels under me out in the realm obviously working on a quest, I wave and move along. Someone in my neck of the woods near my PQ\Newbs\Town, gank away.

[Scaryfaced]

People are confusing AoE's being used in PvP as AoE PvP grinding.

AoE's have been in every PvP MMO I can think of. The difference is, it's not normal for the same 3 or 4 steps to be used by a group constantly to ensure victory like they do in Scenarios.

Run up, magnet, AoE silence/root/stun, AoE damage. Over and over and over and over. It literally is grinding exp on players like they were bots.

Fair enough, though the process your discribing sounds alot like the macro's everyone and their mother use for AoE classes in Shadowbane. Hell, macro power level groups were the only accepted way to level a character in that game. Set it and forget it.

What your discribing sounds horribly dull to me, honestly. While the same order of AoE's could be used in SB, groups were so diverse that there's always a counter strategy. Silence could be stripped off, roots/stuns/snares broken, damage healed, etc. I'm hoping WAR has at least a few counter spells...or at the very least, immunity timers. Without counter strats, AoE pvp is a snooze fest.
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Health Store (http://herbalhealthshop.com)

[Dukefrukem]

No one thought that TF2 video was funny???

[Scaryfaced]

No one thought that TF2 video was funny???

The gate keeper bit was hilarious. "What's the capitol of Egypt?"
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Old Man Sex (http://www.fucktube.com/categories/29/old-man/videos/1)

[sparkfizt]

No one thought that TF2 video was funny???

old stuff. I generally despise griefing, but this guy had style and it was pretty hilarious :P