Economy woes & Such

[Cpl_Punnishment]

As i'm realatively new to the forums (well, new-er as I was a long time lurker over at Ev-Av), many of you don't know me.

I'm not going to air out my grievances, but I thought we could spark up a discussion about the economy. I'm curious as to the general populace and your take on our economy.

I run a large Dodge Dealership in the suburbs of Chicago. We are quite reputable and our repeat and referral business is off the charts. We're the only "one price" store around, which basically means that I study the market and price all of our cars accordingly. 99% of dealers cant touch our prices, and those that do don't have our reputation in service to make the purchase worth it.

I'm curious as to your thoughts on the economy. I've watched my business drop off 40% this year with no signs of recovery in the near future. I've had to make tough decisions and will probably have to make more soon.
One of the biggest problems is financing. Where I used to be able to structure a purchase for someone with a credit score in the low 500's and still get them reasonably affordable financing, I'm seeing more and more lenders tighten up and now it's tough for me to get someone in the low 600's done. Now we typically don't have a lot of credit challenged people, but I'm also missing my good credit buyers!

Where have they all gone???

so I ask... if you have the ability to purchase a car, with the deals that are going on from ALL manufacturers nowadays to try and stimulate the market, what keeps you from buying a car?

Also - I'm curious what business you are in and if you've been affected recently.

I realize that I'm probably among the older group here (33), but I trust there are some of you old bastards on these forums.

Plus, Lets say you're a young college kid... have YOU been impacted recently? Harder to get a student loan? downsized from your job?

just curious.

[LarsenNET]

I work in Elkhart, IN which is RV capital of the word (or at least it used to be). The company I work for supply's parts for the RV and manufactured home industry. Our business is the worst in the history of the company which goes back over 40 years. Before last year I don't think my company ever laid off anyone. Around 25-30 have been laid off since. To say it's bad would be an understatement.

[wyeast]

33? Pfft. Whippersnapper. :D

I'm in civil engineering, and we've seen business slow down overall, as well as transition from new construction to a lot of remodel/renovations/refinances.

As for your dealership, you're facing a little bit of an uphill battle. Regardless of which model, a car is a big purchase - one that often gets put off in times of financial apocalypse. Many people either hold onto their cars longer, or seek alternatives like public transit, cycling, rideshares, etc.

Across the board dealerships are taking a hit. In your case, doubly so because most of Dodge's marquee models are either trucks and SUV's, which is seeing the bottom fall out of their demand.

And it's not just decreased demand for cars in general. It's that for many households, the money that would go towards a car payment is being diverted to other things like housing and food, as costs across the board are all rising.

Finally, even if you have the money right now for a shiny new car, there's still the lingering fear that sometime soon there'll be a layoff, and you are reluctant to be knee-deep into another loan if that happens.

:(

[maharahaj]

I work in a small architectural firm of around 10 employees and two consultants. In the 5 years I've been there, we have done zero marketing as word of mouth and repeat customers come to us. This is all starting to change now, especially with our clients who own business office buildings. These clients not able to take out loans to finance new projects nor do they necessarily want to as tenant fitout work is dropping off the map as new, small businesses can't afford to start (or take out a loan to start) and larger companies can't expand or relocate themselves. We have had to start a marketing program and are reaching out to clients in the educational, institutional and lab industries as these are lines of work that may see some affect, but often times do not just stop growing as an industry. Many have tax money backing which means they can afford to expand in slow times as construction workers are hungry for work and bid projects at rock bottom prices just to keep working.

We use to be able to turn down work if we were too busy, but just the other day, my boss told me he'll take any shitty job that comes our way. He said he dreads having to let people go but I see it as an inevitability, especially four months from now after what will most likely be a slow christmas season. We have had 3-4 sister firms completely shut their doors over the last 14 months. If lay offs occur, the two consultants are the first to go (as they are not employees) followed by part time staff, which we have two of.

The analogy is this: If a 10 car pile up on the highway blocks traffic for three hours for 6 miles worth of traffic before being able to be fully cleaned up, how long after cleanup will it take for that 6 miles of backup to be completely gone? 6 more hours maybe? The banks shutting down all loans is the car accident in the analogy. We are at the start of the first 3 hours of clean up with the following 6 hrs of resuming to normalicy awaiting.

[maharahaj]

...snip...

This is exactly the case and stated very well.

Also, in reference to car dealerships, one of our recent project was a two part renovation/expansion of a Ford dealership. Due to a lack of customer purchases, as well as the difficulty of securing a loan, the dealership has since value engineered the job to under half of the initial scope. Their concern still lies in the scary thought that this 500,000 renovation won't be able to pay it self back in the near-middle future as car sales are looking to completely dry up.

[samcity83]

I run a large Dodge Dealership in the suburbs of Chicago.

.

I hate to say it, but for you, this is probably part of the problem. (I know you are fully aware of all of the issues American Car Manufacturers are facing right no, so I won't touch that.) I actually work in the vehicle industry as well. I manage a call/internet center for large family owned dealership that includes 6 different dealerships brands and two pre-owned lots. For the most part, we are doing consistent business with last years numbers (some exceptions do exist.) It seems to me from watching the business on multiple brands, that the economy is really affecting the middle class the most! They are the ones who are trying to save for retirement and send kids to college and drive them to soccer practice while commuting to work.... They feel the economic strain. Those who buy our high end brands, are still buying. And those credit challenged people who need vehicles are still buying cars. As far as they are concerned, their economy sucks most of the time anyway. The brand that is not keeping up with their business is the middle-upper middle class brand. And that is not merely an economy thing, it has to do with some dynamics that exist in this region specifically. The brand over all is poised for growth over then next 5 years and has released 3 new models this year with more on the way! Chevy's are typically a middle class car.

I am interested in your thoughts about the car industry specifically.

Business aside the economy has left me with some personal finance questions... The biggest one being: should I be focusing my efforts more on saving money, or paying debt off? Obviously I am doing both as much as possible, but if I have that extra couple hundred dollars at the end of the month, where should it go? I am at a loss.

As someone interested in returning to school, you better believe I will not be taking student loans out, at least not until the economy works itself out a little bit.

Anyway... that is just how I see it from my limited field of view.

[Johan]

Where have they all gone???

I'm in my 40's and a high school teacher. I live in a state with one of the worst unemployment rates in the nation. I can tell you where most car purchasers have gone. Home.

The average household credit card debt was recently reported as $8,000+.
The national deficit is $10 trillion.
Gas is at $3/gallon (when oil was at $140/barrel, gas was $4/gallon; now oil is $70/barrel, and gas is STILL at $3/gallon. There's a disconnect right there! Oil drops 50%, gas drops 25%. Yeah...freaking rip-off).
Those with average or poor credit scores can't borrow the money for a car.
Those with decent credit don't WANT to buy a car.

Frankly, people are realizing that debt for depreciating products is bad (and what isn't depreciating nowadays? Virtually everything is, as most cars always have), that one's job is tenuous at best, that pay raises are tiny or non-existent, that inflation is going up, and that as a society we have been living beyond our means for decades.

So, honestly, not intending to be rude, but I'm surprised you're wondering where people have gone. They're home; they're retrenching financially, trying to survive a financial crisis that, as regards the average person, offers no relief in sight from Washington or anywhere else.

Of course, not everyone is doing badly. I'm doing very well. I ONLY have a mortgage and my typical monthly bills to pay, with a stable job and a good life on one income with my wife and kids. Too many people have lived like they MUST have two incomes, MUST have credit cards, MUST borrow for vehicles, MUST have bonuses and/or pay raises every year.

The American dream morphed from having a modest home, job, family...to something like a Frankenstein monster. Everyone doesn't need a 50" plasma tv, satellite, two cars, a 3,000+ sq. foot home, a vacation home, a boat, an RV, and on and on...

it's unsustainable, and the party is ending.

Also, not to be rude, but I've owned one Dodge in my life (a Dodge Caravan), and I will never buy a Dodge again. Sorry. :shrugs:

[Lutheran]

I work for the government , im in no danger of losing my job. I have a 2007 Tiburon which is almost paid off and I wouldn't trade it in for nothing as there is no way I want to have a new car payment after I am done paying this car off. Normally I get a new car every 2-3 years but this one will be with me for 5 or more. I do have a lot of credit cards and owe about 10,000 all together. The economy has affected me just like most other people , I don't go out as much and don't make impulse purchases as much.

[Vulture]

buying a brand new car is accepted as a very bad investment of money... nothing much depreciates in value faster, and greater than a new car, except mayb fruit. most people who buy new cars do so as piece of mind and when comfortably financially solvent.

currently consumer confidence is way down, people are not going to pay extra for piece of mind, when they can just stick it out with their current cars or get a deal used. i haven't bought "new" ever. i have family and friends that buy new constantly and i see the problems it brings. just find me a $6k car with low miles and thats all i need for the next 4 years. recently, i know nobody personally buying new.

on the issue of economy. i think most people agree we can start to see larger layoffs and such next year.

edit: DODGE you say... my first car was a 78 dodge magnum... it got 9mpg. fucking awesome automobile there.... was as close to the mad max car as one could get

i understand that as a whole the American auto market is imploding under its own weight of inefficient cars, and loosing out to foreign autos.... so theirs that. apply at a Volkswagen dealership, i hear they're doing ok now, or subaru, you'll probably see most of your old customers there.

[Cpl_Punnishment]

inevitably when I bring up my "brand" it polarizes people.

It's expected and I can't and wont be baited into a flame war at all.

I take no offense though.

I do ask that those of you who drive "foreign" that you look at this site:
http://levelfieldinstitute.org/

besides that.. I think this is the most true statement I've heard yet:
It seems to me from watching the business on multiple brands, that the economy is really affecting the middle class the most! They are the ones who are trying to save for retirement and send kids to college and drive them to soccer practice while commuting to work.... They feel the economic strain

and this:
The analogy is this: If a 10 car pile up on the highway blocks traffic for three hours for 6 miles worth of traffic before being able to be fully cleaned up, how long after cleanup will it take for that 6 miles of backup to be completely gone? 6 more hours maybe? The banks shutting down all loans is the car accident in the analogy. We are at the start of the first 3 hours of clean up with the following 6 hrs of resuming to normalcy awaiting.

As far as myself, I believe in living well within my means. My wife stays at home with the kids (god bless that she can). I have plenty of credit cards... I use ONE and pay it off every month.
I have no RV's, Boats, Campers, etc. One home, no lavish spending... I have investments - not in the market, I have a 401k. So i'm not one to contribute to the general populaces "beyond the means" issue. But, I agree its there! certainly!

My answer to this question:
Business aside the economy has left me with some personal finance questions... The biggest one being: should I be focusing my efforts more on saving money, or paying debt off? Obviously I am doing both as much as possible, but if I have that extra couple hundred dollars at the end of the month, where should it go? I am at a loss.

Debt - ALWAYS Debt! pay it down as Interest on anything is a joke.
Remember this: Pay yourself first... this means Debt, Savings, etc. in that order.

I guess my post was made of whine.
Sometimes you operate with the blinders on, and luckily our company is mostly Debt free and can weather the storm, it's just disheartening that shit has gone to hell so fast...

what I really fear is a GM Chrysler merger!

Anyone got a job opening in a Video Game field for me :)

FUCK if Richard Garriot is worth millions then my game ideas should be worth BILLIONS!!!


My pitch:
Imagine if you will... an MMO all about the Porn industry! Cyber while you Cyber!

its a license to PRINT MONEY i tell you!

[Johan]

inevitably when I bring up my "brand" it polarizes people.

It's expected and I can't and wont be baited into a flame war at all.

I take no offense though.

No offense was intended from me, nor do I see anyone trying to "bait" you into a flame war. You asked a question, I answered it as best I personally could (as others have). My Dodge was a POS. That's my experience with Dodge and I'll never go back. That's not an invitation to a flame war any more than people here who think the public schools suck saying so when I'm a public school teacher. There are plenty of public schools that suck. That's just life. People have individual experiences that affect how they perceive that which they have experienced. It's not an insult, it's just reality.

[Vulture]

inevitably when I bring up my "brand" it polarizes people.

It's expected and I can't and wont be baited into a flame war at all.

I take no offense though.

I do ask that those of you who drive "foreign" that you look at this site:
http://levelfieldinstitute.org/
cools site. unfortunately its nothing the typical consumer takes into account when buying a car... unfortunately. the problem is probably exacerbated due to the unfortunate fact that American cars get a bad wrap for efficiency and reliability... true or not.

edit: personally, i prefer domestic

i rent and have 2 kids: 3yrs and 2months, married. we live off of my income, the wife is in school studying journalism. i get overpayed for testing videogames, but i'm good at it. my training however is in fishing, real estate, and security. i have some credit card debt that i got from buying appliances, but other than that we don't have many expenses at the moment.

personally i buy used, and typically domestic sedans or wagons, with 6 cylinders. usually 5-6 years old, and it takes me a good 6 months to find the car i want. i buy domestic for used well, because i will eventually have to fix it, and fixing it is cheap if its domestic. i buy with cash. i don't like financing as it means i will have to get full auto insurance coverage, another expense. i get liability only, and well, if i crash the thing than its just 6k. however my last car is a 01 Subaru Forester wagon with a 4cyl.... fits the kids nicely.

in my area of Massachusetts, its very well off, and i have gotten used to seeing brand-spanking-new cars everywhere i drive. up until last year there have been mostly suv's, lots of durangos, and explorers. over the past 2 years i have seen, well, no new cars really. the new cars i do happen to see are usually dodge/chrysler minivans, hondas and volkswagons; but not that many in all. people seem to be mostly selling off their suv's and boats, and making due with whatever is efficient.


Anyone got a job opening in a Video Game field for me :)

FUCK if Richard Garriot is worth millions then my game ideas should be worth BILLIONS!!!


My pitch:
Imagine if you will... an MMO all about the Porn industry! Cyber while you Cyber!

its a license to PRINT MONEY i tell you!
ya, would work well... it would lend itself well to a mmog, flashbased of course. check out THIS SITE (http://www.sloperama.com/advice.html) if you are interested in finding ways to "get in." it has good advice, and has some links to some kick-ass webtools that will help you locate a company in your area.... there a re shittons of small game companies out there that focus only on web-app games or whatever they're called...its how i got my job. we're not hiring

[civil]

I too live in Chicago and I work in the fancier end of the women's clothing industry. We've felt the pinch, for sure. Since our product is really a luxury item, we've noticed that our customers (who are across the country) have slowed their orders down. The difficult thing for us is that we take the orders for the clothes months in advance and manufacture accordingly, so when it comes to shipping time some customers will balk at their order which seemed fine months ago but with the economy makes them nervous. So we're left with inventory that we have to pay for.

Since we deal with stores across the country it seems to me that the economies of Ohio, Texas, Louisiana (the whole south, really) and especially Michigan are doing very poorly. Fucking Hell, I'd hate to live in Michigan right now.

[Johan]

Fucking Hell, I'd hate to live in Michigan right now.

The rust belt is dying; has been for years. It's quite sad. Cleveland and Detroit seem like two of the most messed-up cities I can think of in the whole country. Industry; gone. Real estate; collapsed. Neighborhoods; moved. Tax base; destroyed.

[Cpl_Punnishment]

No offense was intended from me, nor do I see anyone trying to "bait" you into a flame war. You asked a question, I answered it as best I personally could (as others have). My Dodge was a POS. That's my experience with Dodge and I'll never go back. That's not an invitation to a flame war any more than people here who think the public schools suck saying so when I'm a public school teacher. There are plenty of public schools that suck. That's just life. People have individual experiences that affect how they perceive that which they have experienced. It's not an insult, it's just reality.

point taken, it's just different on the inside looking out. Plus it's difficult to tell someones inflections when they type.
3 of my 15 years in the biz was with a "foreign" company who shall remain nameless (but one translation of the name is triple diamond). My position at the time was Fixed Operations (read: Service). There is a DRAMATIC difference, exactly the opposite of what you would think as far as the Warranty rate of a foreign versus domestic. Partially this is driven up by the importing taxes and tariffs, however, it's also sky high due to repetitive failures and a much more lax infrastructure of part tolerances.

I do believe that a certain famous best selling import sports car of the 90's and early 2000's was by far the most recalled car in history, but it was masked by calling 90% of the "Recalls" "Technical Service Bulletins", thereby keeping them under wraps.

regardless, there was a paradigm shift back in the 80's that occurred, steering people toward import versus domestic, and even though the technical data now proves otherwise, the perception data (J D Power, etc) does not.

Most people who buy foreign cars don't realize the true impact it has on Americans.
It's up to you if you want to visit that site I posted or not.

Domestic manufacturers arent without their (plentiful) faults mind you... it's certainly time someone steering the ship wakes the fuck up and gets it in gear! Where's our domestic ingenuity when we need it? 50 MPG cars, alternative fuels.... lets get it done people!!!



I have officially derailed my own thread :(
on the subject of the economy, well yeah, it sucks.

How bout them Cubbies.

PORN MMO FTW

[DeathtollWRX]

First off,
I was born and raised in Chicago! Moved out to California at 12.. anyhow.

Last year around August I got a new job that paid me 22k a year (minimum) more and right before I got hired I ended up clearing up all my credit card debt(0) and fixed my finance.

When all this crap hit i'm happy to say I have not been effected much simply because..

My wife and I have a combined salary over triple the average household
We both are in companies in the medical field and while we have some cutbacks no one ever loses their job.

I live in a relatively low income neighborhood which means that gas and housing costs are way low. I live in a small one bedroom apartment as we are saving for a house (which is still expensive here in SoCal)

Each and every day I am grateful for my current situation. My peers and good friends have been slowly losing their jobs and having their lives turned upside down.

Interestingly enough I'm kind of in the market to buy a car and I noticed that dealers are willing to give me great deals on the cars that I like

Subaru WRX STI
Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution X

The main reason why I don't buy another car (current is a 2007 VW GLI ) is that since everything is turning to shit it's better to more paranoid then usual.

I think my point is... Even if you start making more money that doesn't mean you have to get a larger apartment/house and offset the amount of money you are making with higher monthly bills.

Now as far as buying American here is my take..

The Ford Mustang GT is made in Mexico ( I like this car ) how am I helping Americans if I buy this?

For the record I'm a huge Patriot. I served three years in the Army and I love my country. Perhaps if an American car manufacturer brings an All Wheel Drive turbo car to the states I will buy it (Ford Focus RS) till then I have to stick to the imports.

Also, doesn't buying a Honda help out Americans? After all Honda Civics and Toyota Camry's are made in the United States by Americans.

Go Rhine Sandberg and Go Jim McMahon!

[maharahaj]

I've only bought cars from American companies; Dodge Neon, Chevy Cavalier and now a Ford Mustang :)

[Generation ABXY]

First off,
I was born and raised in Chicago! Moved out to California at 12.. anyhow.

Last year around August I got a new job that paid me 22k a year (minimum) more and right before I got hired I ended up clearing up all my credit card debt(0) and fixed my finance.

When all this crap hit i'm happy to say I have not been effected much simply because..

My wife and I have a combined salary over triple the average household
We both are in companies in the medical field and while we have some cutbacks no one ever loses their job.

I live in a relatively low income neighborhood which means that gas and housing costs are way low. I live in a small one bedroom apartment as we are saving for a house (which is still expensive here in SoCal)

Each and every day I am grateful for my current situation. My peers and good friends have been slowly losing their jobs and having their lives turned upside down.

Interestingly enough I'm kind of in the market to buy a car and I noticed that dealers are willing to give me great deals on the cars that I like

Subaru WRX STI
Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution X

The main reason why I don't buy another car (current is a 2007 VW GLI ) is that since everything is turning to shit it's better to more paranoid then usual.

I think my point is... Even if you start making more money that doesn't mean you have to get a larger apartment/house and offset the amount of money you are making with higher monthly bills.

Now as far as buying American here is my take..

The Ford Mustang GT is made in Mexico ( I like this car ) how am I helping Americans if I buy this?

For the record I'm a huge Patriot. I served three years in the Army and I love my country. Perhaps if an American car manufacturer brings an All Wheel Drive turbo car to the states I will buy it (Ford Focus RS) till then I have to stick to the imports.

Also, doesn't buying a Honda help out Americans? After all Honda Civics and Toyota Camry's are made in the United States by Americans.

Go Rhine Sandberg and Go Jim McMahon!

See, this is a great way of doing things. People like to laugh at it, but I've always said, why live in excess when you can prepare for scarcity. Granted, what you're doing is saving up for a specific goal, but I find both to be a great to live your life.

[DeathtollWRX]

It's funny the last few times I applied for credit the people were like. " Yeah umm, i saw your monthly housing payment and we have a few questions. So, are we to double that payment since you are splitting the rent with your wife or something?

Seriously, if your not a frugal person by nature NOW is the time to save. I've heard that you should always have at least six months worth of rent/mortage in the bank just incase things turns sour.

For the record, I am not cheap.. I just don't spend alot for housing. I'd rather have money to buy electronic gear every month then pay for high rent and have a slightly nicer dwelling that I do not even own.

[Cpl_Punnishment]

Now as far as buying American here is my take..

The Ford Mustang GT is made in Mexico ( I like this car ) how am I helping Americans if I buy this?

For the record I'm a huge Patriot. I served three years in the Army and I love my country. Perhaps if an American car manufacturer brings an All Wheel Drive turbo car to the states I will buy it (Ford Focus RS) till then I have to stick to the imports.

Also, doesn't buying a Honda help out Americans? After all Honda Civics and Toyota Camry's are made in the United States by Americans.



go here:
www.levelfieldinstitute.org Seriously! it was made to answer your statements/questions.

and P.S. Thank you for serving!

and P.P.S. no shit on the Focus RS eh? again, one of those "little mistakes" i was talking about that the domestic manufacturer make/have made.

[Generation ABXY]

Seriously, if your not a frugal person by nature NOW is the time to save. I've heard that you should always have at least six months worth of rent/mortage in the bank just incase things turns sour.

I'd say even more, if it is at all possible. I certainly wish I had saved up a bit more - things took a turn for the worse in my own life, and now there's a good chance I may lose my own home. Mind you, I'm still quite young, so even if that does happen, it won't be the terribly crushing loss, like it has been for a lot of people during this economic crisis.

[DeathtollWRX]

I'd say even more, if it is at all possible. I certainly wish I had saved up a bit more - things took a turn for the worse in my own life, and now there's a good chance I may lose my own home. Mind you, I'm still quite young, so even if that does happen, it won't be the terribly crushing loss, like it has been for a lot of people during this economic crisis.

Well, here's the deal, anything that can be bought and lost can be repurchased in the future. Anything material has the same rule. If things are looking bleak and you are at the bottom you can still climb up and come out on top, Of course that means you can be doing well and then lose it all. Bottom line is do your best to save up for those times that you will need a little bit of help. Try to keep friends and family close.. at the end of the day i'm sure some of your good friends and family members won't let you sleep in the street.

[Generation ABXY]

Well, here's the deal, anything that can be bought and lost can be repurchased in the future. Anything material has the same rule. If things are looking bleak and you are at the bottom you can still climb up and come out on top, Of course that means you can be doing well and then lose it all. Bottom line is do your best to save up for those times that you will need a little bit of help. Try to keep friends and family close.. at the end of the day i'm sure some of your good friends and family members won't let you sleep in the street.

Oh, I don't imagine I'll be sleeping on the streets, thankfully. For most of my life, I've been known as lucky, but most of that is just doing things the smart way, like we've been talking about. :p

Crawling my way back out may be a bit tough for me, though, especially since my job actually depends on some of those material possessions most people usually try to sell (namely video game systems).

As for my family, well, that's mostly what got me into the situation I'm in now. Knew I should have cut off ties when I had the chance! :D

[DeathtollWRX]

Hey Gen, just curious where do you live? How are the prices out there?

Around here houses are now between 250-300 for 2 to 3 bedroom places... before all this started we were talking about 500+ (sometime last year). In some areas (Long Beach, Carson) just about half of the houses are in foreclosure. Alot of people who owned houses out here were just barely making it. Now that everything went to shit it's like a mass exodus. I'm looking to capitilize on what's going on and hopefully make a purchase at around 200k (this was unthinkable a year ago). I also found it good that I work in a higher income area (torrance) but live in a low income area. I think a good way to check this is gas prices, I noticed that areas that have higher gas prices are also more expensive when it comes to housing and the same goes for cheaper gas prices. Of course out here everything is morbidly expensive compared to non-california states.

[Generation ABXY]

Hey Gen, just curious where do you live? How are the prices out there?

Around here houses are now between 250-300 for 2 to 3 bedroom places... before all this started we were talking about 500+ (sometime last year). In some areas (Long Beach, Carson) just about half of the houses are in foreclosure. Alot of people who owned houses out here were just barely making it. Now that everything went to shit it's like a mass exodus. I'm looking to capitilize on what's going on and hopefully make a purchase at around 200k (this was unthinkable a year ago). I also found it good that I work in a higher income area (torrance) but live in a low income area. I think a good way to check this is gas prices, I noticed that areas that have higher gas prices are also more expensive when it comes to housing and the same goes for cheaper gas prices. Of course out here everything is morbidly expensive compared to non-california states.

I live near D.C., so that has skewed things quite a bit in my area. Currently, I'm not sure about the price, but the last time I checked things were (in my opinion) freaking ridiculous out here. I guess I would say that a 2-3 bedroom one sat mostly between the 250-500k range that you saw homes near you have seemed to travel through, but don't quote me. Like I said, I'm not too sure now that things have fallen so hard, but I can check if you like.

Depending on what you're looking for and what you're willing to do, there are deals to be had here, though. I got my own for a steal, but I also had to put a whole lot of work into it.

[DeathtollWRX]

I was just checking.. Looks like housing has fallen here more than anywhere.. the say it's a "soft market"

So is crime as bad as they say there?
( I live 10 minutes from Compton)

[Church42]

Now we typically don't have a lot of credit challenged people, but I'm also missing my good credit buyers!

Where have they all gone???

so I ask... if you have the ability to purchase a car, with the deals that are going on from ALL manufacturers nowadays to try and stimulate the market, what keeps you from buying a car?

I'm 27, in a contracted government job (which is safe unless the country rips asunder or I do something completely stupid) and am debt free...while I don't know my credit score (and I know I should) I'm sure I would probably have no problem getting credit, I guess I'll address what's keeping me from buying a car.

A) As others have mentioned, a car is a terrible investment that loses value too fast. I also consider the practicality of a car. A car gets me from Pt A to Pt B. I don't feel the need to upgrade it every 2-5 years nor do I feel the urge to buy a car for appeal's sake or to impress others...frankly, imo, if my car makes someone think BETTER of me, frankly that makes them pretty shallow in my book.

B) Another already mentioned reason is that, while I'm not likely to lose my job, I can emphasize with those that may and thus it instills a sense (perhaps false but a sense nonetheless) that I could get the axe too. Therefore, I am saving my money for that emergency were it to occur. It's recommended that you have 6 months of emergency savings and though while I have that, its best to have too much in emergency savings than not have enough.

C) Frankly, the additional money I'm saving by not making unneeded purchases, aside from saving for the emergency fund, I plan to invest sometime soon when mutual funds and individual stocks are on the cheap. No sense in bailing out my investments not w/ how much they've lost, so I may as well capitalize and buy what I can for the eventual market turnaround. I believe it will (next year in my estimation and in a slow, gradual recovery) and having a degree in the business fields, I am confident that the worse is coming to a close (not before the end of the year, but within the next 9 months).

[Generation ABXY]

I was just checking.. Looks like housing has fallen here more than anywhere.. the say it's a "soft market"

So is crime as bad as they say there?
( I live 10 minutes from Compton)

Depends. On one hand, my grandparents sleep with their doors unlocked. On the other, someone once stole my front door. So, sufficed to say, it's pretty diverse over here. :p

[DeathtollWRX]

Lol, who the hell would steal a front door?

I guess the same can be said for anybody. Hell people have even mugged people in front of my old job which happens to be right next to a brand new police station...

oh and this happend in broad daylight.

[Generation ABXY]

Lol, who the hell would steal a front door?

Well, it was a nice door.

[DeathtollWRX]

Well, it was a nice door.
That would be funny if you are driving down the street one day and see it. Walk up, try your key and if it still opens take it back!

[Generation ABXY]

That would be funny if you are driving down the street one day and see it. Walk up, try your key and if it still opens take it back!

I wonder if that would be effective proof ownership. I'm almost hoping I do see it one day, now. :D

[TurboKinny]

Plus, Lets say you're a young college kid... have YOU been impacted recently? Harder to get a student loan? downsized from your job?After I found out last week that my school refunded too much money to me back in august and demanded payment by THIS week, I tried to get another student loan. Only to be denied pending a co-signer. For a student loan....ridiculous.

[Schnoogs]

The economy is hurting right now?

(Lights cuban cigar with a burning hundred dollar bill)

[GunnyMo]

Also - I'm curious what business you are in and if you've been affected recently.

I realize that I'm probably among the older group here (33), but I trust there are some of you old bastards on these forums.



I'm in the business of "unemployed" and "sending out dozens of resumes weekly with no responses" so the employer-favored economy is affecting me quite a bit.

Don't worry, I'm old too. :D

[DeathtollWRX]

Gunny, I'm sure things will turn up soon.

I would wish that the US govt would actually help out veterans such as yourself.

Speaking of Govt, looks like the Army bonuses can be up to 27k for signing in. not that you should.

One of my childhood friends is also unemployed, he doesn't seem to mind as much as I do. I can't bear to see peers in that condition, especially when I am here complaining about bugs in Fable 2.

[President Fred]

I'm in the business of "unemployed" and "sending out dozens of resumes weekly with no responses" so the employer-favored economy is affecting me quite a bit.

Don't worry, I'm old too. :D
Move to Europe we also have unemployed people only we call them state funded artists. Are you good with faeces, paper mache and a film camera?

[GunnyMo]

Speaking of Govt, looks like the Army bonuses can be up to 27k for signing in. not that you should.


Honestly, if I didn't have a son I would have already reenlisted. Seriously.

[Schnoogs]

Move to Europe we also have unemployed people only we call them state funded artists. Are you good with faeces, paper mache and a film camera?

America will be the same way after this election! ;)

[ShivaX]

America will be the same way after this election! ;)

Sweet, I was hoping to break into the fecal mache biz, but I've never had the chance!

[Bad Buddha]

I'm a network admin for an insurance brokerage. Things seem pretty steady here. Regardless of how business is going people still need insurance. However; We are looking to see an upswing in fire/arson/stolen vehicles as people can't afford the payments of their overpriced purchases and look for desperate ways out of the commitment.

I'm 52 and I've only purchased one new car in my life. I just don't see the value in it. When you purchase a used vehicle, you can look up reliability and after purchase cost reports; the whole Consumer Reports type of information. Having the latest and shiniest has never been a big draw for me, and seeing the thing lose a great deal of it's value as you drive it off the lot doesn't seem like a good plan to me.

Motorcycles on the other hand... 3 of the 8 bikes I have owned were purchased new. :D

[DeathtollWRX]

Honestly, if I didn't have a son I would have already reenlisted. Seriously.

Hell it is job insurance...

When I heard 27k I was like... holdon .. maybe I can do 1 year get the 27k.. 1 year of overseas/combat pay

just tell my job i'm in the reserves =)