Paedophile Sentenced to be Beheaded and Crucified

[H.Bogard]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/8342005.stm

A Saudi court has ruled that a man convicted of raping five children will be beheaded and crucified.
Muhammad Basheer al-Ramaly, 22, left his youngest victim, aged three, stranded in the desert to die.

He was caught when he tried to abduct another boy by offering him a lift home from school in his car.

[Generation ABXY]

I'm trying not to think of this as a good thing...but, I'm not having much luck.

[ClannerDelta]

I'm trying not to think of this as a good thing...but, I'm not having much luck.

I'm in the same boat.

[DoctorFinger]

Wait, so is he crucified then beheaded, or beheaded then crucified. Because there are logistical problems either way.

[Generation ABXY]

Well, they must have worked 'em out, Doc, since this isn't the first time they've had to do it.

[BlackPete]

Hmm... nope, not much sympathy from me either. I actually think that should be done in North America as well.

I would so pay to see that be added as a segment to Chris Hansen's show.

"Would you like to sit on that crucifix over there..."

[Dorkandproudofit]

While we're at it, let's make him listen to Rick Astley while he's up on that cross.

Or would that be TOO cruel?

[Generation ABXY]

With his head chopped off, I'm not sure he'll care too much either way.

[carnage11]

Yeah, I would expect they would behead him after they crucify him. The other way around doesn't make much sense, now does it?

[boratika]

I told you, we should have replaced his blood with acid after. The sharks won't touch him now.

[Generation ABXY]

Lower the giant hairdryer!

[BlackPete]

... I actually like Rick Astley...

[KamaItachi]

Wait, so is he crucified then beheaded, or beheaded then crucified. Because there are logistical problems either way.

From the article:

Crucifixion means the body will be attached to wooden beams and displayed in public after the beheading.

If it were me I'd much rather the beheading first, death by crucifixion is fucking ghastly.

[Wasson_]

So are homicidal pedophiles.

[ShivaX]

From the article:



If it were me I'd much rather the beheading first, death by crucifixion is fucking ghastly.

Well obviously they've got it backwards. Crucifixtion first or its basically pointless.

I after hes decapitated it doesn't matter much what they do with the body.

[CES]

Well obviously they've got it backwards. Crucifixtion first or its basically pointless.

I after hes decapitated it doesn't matter much what they do with the body.

Historically plenty of people have been decapitated then been stuck on a pike. It's less about the torture and more about "You try this shit and here's what will happen to you"

[H.Bogard]

From the article:



If it were me I'd much rather the beheading first, death by crucifixion is fucking ghastly.

Perhaps the "Display to public" part is what comes afterwards, ofcourse they'll behead him after crucifying!

I wish they'd have been more creative, though. How about that twisting machine from Saw III?

[Narradisall]

Sad truth is, I bet this will put any ideas out of the minds of future would be homicidal pedophiles.

[Ultima Thulian]

I don't know how I feel about this. On one hand, I think the public display would act as a powerful deterrent and given the fact that pedos have a nearly zero rehabilitation rate, this would obviously stop repeat offenses. On the other, it's very draconian and the man didn't even have access to a laywer, which makes one wonder how fair the trial was. The article also doesn't give us much idea on how much evidence was stacked against him and its reliability. Plus, I hate Sharia law. So...very conflicted on this one.

[CappinCanuck]

Life in prison without parole, but not a beheading and/or crucifixion. This is ghastly. It's bad enough people kill people by the minute globally but to have a state say it's okay is terrible. I know I may not get much sympathy for my viewpoint from some of you south of the border, but I worry about the social disconnect between people where they don't care if someone dies (even if they are bad people).

Either way, for this particular individual... I wouldn't be too sad if his life term was accompanied by hard labour or some "roughing" by other inmates. If all the charges are true, then he's a real POS.

[nixpayn]

I'm all for execution if there is 100% proof that the person is guilty. I'm talking DNA, no reasonable doubt, no way no how did this guy not do it.

All prison really is, is an extended version of the childhood 'go stand in the corner', cept with anal rape.

wasting our money and their time. just get it over with.

[Ultima Thulian]

Uh...executions cost more than life in prison here in the U.S. I dunno 'bout Canada though. But that's another conversation for another day.

[Mike Kelehan]

Sad truth is, I bet this will put any ideas out of the minds of future would be homicidal pedophiles.

Oh, no it won't. Nobody rapes and murders three year olds because they think they'll get a light sentence if they're caught.

[ShivaX]

Uh...executions cost more than life in prison here in the U.S. I dunno 'bout Canada though. But that's another conversation for another day.

Yeah but this isn't America we're talking about. The dude isn't going to get appeals or any of the rest of it. So they're saving a ton of money and I doubt they really care about his civil rights or if they even got the right guy.

[Ultima Thulian]

Yeah but this isn't America we're talking about. The dude isn't going to get appeals or any of the rest of it. So they're saving a ton of money and I doubt they really care about his civil rights or if they even got the right guy.

Yea...I mentioned that already. I was responding to Nix's post.

[ShivaX]

Yea...I mentioned that already. I was responding to Nix's post.

Ah. I misunderstood his post actually.

[CappinCanuck]

I'm all for execution if there is 100% proof that the person is guilty. I'm talking DNA, no reasonable doubt, no way no how did this guy not do it.

All prison really is, is an extended version of the childhood 'go stand in the corner', cept with anal rape.

wasting our money and their time. just get it over with.

Uh...executions cost more than life in prison here in the U.S. I dunno 'bout Canada though. But that's another conversation for another day.

And 100% proof doesn't exist. A significant number of people have been sentenced, beyond reasonable doubt, to capital punishment and later found innocent. It's even happened in cases with DNA, although DNA has typically shown innocence. And because State's won't consent to testing after the deed has been done, we can't say that non-guilty people have been executed although everyone knows they have. The burden of proof to have 100% would be so high that it would so rarely be used as a judicial tool it would become nearly useless.

So, decide on the merits of capital punishment, yay or nay? Don't add addendums to gray the matter because it shows that you know something is wrong with it. Btw, I'm not trying to tell you to be against it, but to simply decide and stick to it. I'm obviously anti-Cap. Pun., but I'm certainly no activist or evangelical in any of my social beliefs.

[BlackPete]

Uh...executions cost more than life in prison here in the U.S. I dunno 'bout Canada though. But that's another conversation for another day.

Canada doesn't have the death penalty. It sure would be interesting to find out how much it cost should we change our minds.

[Inspector Fowler]

I have long held a hypothesis based on my observation of the (many) Middle Eastern students at my university.

They don't watch their kids. Like, ever. They wander free around their apartment complex. I have thought that it's because, where they come from, people who prey on children are few and far between and get punished like this.

[nixpayn]

Can't cost that much to just put a bullet in someone.

/shrug

[Ultima Thulian]

You'd think that, Nix, but appeals, lawyers, bureaucracy, etc., all get in the way and cost taxpayers big money. At least here. But most civilized nations (such as yours) don't bother with Capital Punishment, and for the exception of maybe Texas, we do executions so rarely that they lose all meaning and purpose.

And ammunition prices are skyrocketing, so it would cost a little bit to shoot someone, haha. :D

And to answer the Captain's question: I do not approve of capital punishment because it's overly priced and does not work as a truly effective deterrent unless done often and preferably in public. Since my country is not willing to do that (which is ok by me), I see no point in supporting it. Instead, I say make the prisoners "pay their debt" to society by not sacrificing their lives, but their sweat and time. Yes, they do this already. Let's expand it and make it more effective.

[CappinCanuck]

You'd think that, Nix, but appeals, lawyers, bureaucracy, etc., all get in the way and cost taxpayers big money. At least here. But most civilized nations (such as yours) don't bother with Capital Punishment, and for the exception of maybe Texas, we do executions so rarely that they lose all meaning and purpose.

And ammunition prices are skyrocketing, so it would cost a little bit to shoot someone, haha. :D

And to answer the Captain's question: I do not approve of capital punishment because it's overly priced and does not work as a truly effective deterrent unless done often and preferably in public. Since my country is not willing to do that (which is ok by me), I see no point in supporting it. Instead, I say make the prisoners "pay their debt" to society by not sacrificing their lives, but their sweat and time. Yes, they do this already. Let's expand it and make it more effective.

I just quoted you because I was going on with another point of contention for Nix's post. Not because you were adding an addendum, because you weren't heh. Nix was, with, it's okay but only if we're really sure. Nothing in my post actually refers to you Ultima :P.

I just hate, not you Nix but in general from many other discussions I have had, people who colour issues to avoid the faults and negatives with their particular stance. They don't want to seem like a bigot, or a racist, or a hypocrite or whatever else. Admit it, or change your stance... if you can't admit it or have to cover something up, then you know it's wrong so stop lying to yourself and others. I see it most often with the religious and selective adherence but that's a whole other discussion.

[Ultima Thulian]

We're human, and thus bound to err. As such, if capital punishment is used, then killing an innocent is bound to happen sooner or later. Thus a supporter of cp needs to be okay with this. If so, then gravy. If not, he should rethink his stance.

Is that what you're saying Cap'n? I just got off work and I'm getting sleepy, so sorry for asking for clarification, but I just wanted to make sure. And I know you weren't directing most of that at me, but I figured I'd take a swing at your question anyway.

[CappinCanuck]

We're human, and thus bound to err. As such, if capital punishment is used, then killing an innocent is bound to happen sooner or later. Thus a supporter of cp needs to be okay with this. If so, then gravy. If not, he should rethink his stance.

Is that what you're saying Cap'n? I just got off work and I'm getting sleepy, so sorry for asking for clarification, but I just wanted to make sure. And I know you weren't directing most of that at me, but I figured I'd take a swing at your question anyway.

We're human, and thus bound to err. As such, if capital punishment is used, then killing an innocent is bound to happen sooner or later. Thus a supporter of cp needs to be okay with this. If so, then gravy. If not, he should rethink his stance.



Exactly, Ultima. I have also talked to people who were bothered by the term "state-sponsored murder." Well, it kind of is just that. It's not really slanted negatively, it's that Capital Punishment is sort of sugar-coated because it omits the word we use for humans killing humans. If you're okay with that though, just say so. That's all I ask of people. We'll all judge each other regardless, we shouldn't hide behind muddled ethics.

[nixpayn]

I just hate, not you Nix but in general from many other discussions I have had, people who colour issues to avoid the faults and negatives with their particular stance. They don't want to seem like a bigot, or a racist, or a hypocrite or whatever else. Admit it, or change your stance... if you can't admit it or have to cover something up, then you know it's wrong so stop lying to yourself and others. I see it most often with the religious and selective adherence but that's a whole other discussion.

im not really sure what you're saying here. I'm a white dude from Toronto. We don't have racism and bigotry in Toronto, didn't you know that?

Seriously tho, this is nothing but a personal feeling on a subject. I have a huge problem with our legal system and the varying levels of punishment for people. Take the young offenders act. I never got the full scoop, but remember that story from a week ago or so where that 15 year old girl was raped for like.. 2+ hours? If the kids that did that were 15, do you think oh, theyre just kids, they didnt know what they were doing? Please. Should we execute them? no, but im all for castration.

Same thing with pedophiles. Anything that violates the rights of someone innocent who has done no harm is ghastly and unacceptable in civilized society. I dont care if you have to get out of jail and go door to door and announce you're a pedophile, you shouldnt be out in the first place - theres no oops, i fell and stuck my dick in your son. sorry about that. And raping five children? FIVE? What if one of them was your son. Or your little brother. Maybe you'd feel differently. Those kids are going to probably have severe long term trauma. Who knows what they could have been, but maybe never will now. Five lives possibly ruined. And what does Mr.Rapist have to contribute to society? I think he's done enough, now time to put him to sleep.

A lot of our laws are polite suggestions really. Thou shalt not kill is only a polite suggestion, because we suspend it when the government says its ok and they want oil or they need to defend a weak nation against a tyrant (that they themselves probably trained and equipped at some point). Where's the logic in that, how is that in any way evolving society to a place where there is real peace, freedom and equality? Responsible governments that are concerned with the welfare of humanity on a local and global scale need to be in power first, and unfortunately as long as there is hunger for power and wealth, that will never happen, because man in general is flawed.

But in our current view of freedom, one thing is ok and another is not. Reality is, the laws of common sense should be higher than the laws of man.

1 - respect your fellow man (and woman).
2 - you cant take it with you. (corporations and dictators, please take note)
3 - what you want isnt more important than what someone else needs. (think about it)
4 - education is only partially whats learned in school. question everything and make up your own mind when presented with a challenge or provoking issue - blind faith in anything just because someone else says so is disrespecting the evolution of cognitive thought. (see religion, politics and science)
5 - DONT RAPE. Get on the web and hit redtube and wank to some mature adult content to get your rocks off, like the rest of us.

I think calling me ignorant or a bigot because i believe people who disrespect the general laws of being a good person and should be punished accordingly, is in itself a little ignorant. I can believe whatever i want, its not gonna affect you in the least. I didnt say anywhere that my opinion was right and everyone should agree. Its what i think. And I'm entitled to it. But don't resort to name calling just because you disagree.

[Narradisall]

Oh, no it won't. Nobody rapes and murders three year olds because they think they'll get a light sentence if they're caught.

Depends if you believe some rapists can control their urges, and there are few few people who kill as a compulsion. Granted just raping children would likely see the same punishment so killing them probably makes sense from a practical 'not getting caught' point of view.

Heavy sentencing will put some off. Psycologically rapists can be opportunists who weigh up the risk/reward of the opportunities. Not all of them are compulsively driven and determined.

[nixpayn]

Depends if you believe some rapists can control their urges, and there are few few people who kill as a compulsion. Granted just raping children would likely see the same punishment so killing them probably makes sense from a practical 'not getting caught' point of view.

Heavy sentencing will put some off. Psycologically rapists can be opportunists who weigh up the risk/reward of the opportunities. Not all of them are compulsively driven and determined.

i think theres also a large portion of people who do it because of the urge to dominate someone and subject them to your will. I'm not sure how often the act is due to sexual reasons at all.

[CappinCanuck]

I think calling me ignorant or a bigot because i believe people who disrespect the general laws of being a good person and should be punished accordingly, is in itself a little ignorant. I can believe whatever i want, its not gonna affect you in the least. I didnt say anywhere that my opinion was right and everyone should agree. Its what i think. And I'm entitled to it. But don't resort to name calling just because you disagree.

Good thing I didn't call you ignorant, or a bigot or any names. :confused:

[nixpayn]

Good thing I didn't call you ignorant, or a bigot or any names. :confused:

its true, you said not you, which since you dont know me, really would include me i'd think :P

sorry i just woke up when i wrote that rambling mess :P

[CappinCanuck]

i think theres also a large portion of people who do it because of the urge to dominate someone and subject them to your will. I'm not sure how often the act is due to sexual reasons at all.

They aren't exactly separate though. In those cases, the domination is actually sexual for the offender. It's part of why they're like that. Their sexuality has become itself perverted and distorted, and is usually not grounded in reality.

its true, you said not you, which since you dont know me, really would include me i'd think :P

sorry i just woke up when i wrote that rambling mess :P

Np.

What I meant, in case it isn't clear, is that each of those things applies to whatever excuse is given. Be it an excuse for racism, to avoid a show of their racism, or an excuse for hypocrisy, to avoid being called a hypocrite. I wasn't calling you all/any of those things.

I see it most often with, as I said, selective adherence of religion. People who call themselves <insert religion here> and repeatedly don't follow main tenants of said religion. They excuse themselves out of it for some reason because they don't want it to apply, but they still show themselves and identify themselves of said religion. Either you are and you follow the religion, or you aren't. Christianity tends to be the worst for it because people misuse the promised forgiveness a tool to excuse their overt lack of adherence to the religion. Thus, in this case, the excuse is to avoid the semblance of hypocrisy.

I have just seen it apply to social arguments and debates on Capital punishment as well.

[CappinCanuck]

its true, you said not you, which since you dont know me, really would include me i'd think :P

sorry i just woke up when i wrote that rambling mess :P

Are you sure you're pro-CP though? It may seem like a stupid question to ask but judging from your longer post, and the issues you have with the legal system, you aren't. You, like me, seem to have duty-based or codified ethics that are strongly espousing social integrity. This usually, but maybe not always(?), tends to heavily be anti-CP. You likely feel a stronger bond to strangers than most and care more for the welfare of others than the average person, if in fact you do have duty-based ethics. Don't you find it horrific that people kill people, period? That we're the only mammals on the planet that kill each other? I think it's terrible we have such a disconnect with our fellow humans that makes us passive to murder. I'm not naive though. The judicial system doesn't work well. But in instances where we have complete control, we shouldn't be ending human life, as opposed to situations where we do not have control like violent crime or a shoot out with police. But maybe I misread you and I'm way off base.:cool:

I may be anti-CP but I certainly am not advocating revolving jails. I would like to see much heavier sentences for felonies + murder 1, but less severe sentences for misdemeanors and petty crime. I don't need some guy that stole food from a convenience store going to jail so he can be socialized to become a criminal. Crimes with high repeat offender rates need to be either permanent sentences or, at the expense of the offender's freedom, managed to an almost perfect degree.

[Narradisall]

i think theres also a large portion of people who do it because of the urge to dominate someone and subject them to your will. I'm not sure how often the act is due to sexual reasons at all.

I didn't define the urge's they have as purely sexual in nature, it can be issues of control as you stated. I was merely pointing out that not all rapists are complete slaves to these impulses.

Many are perfectly capable of understanding where the line is, and aware of the consequences of crossing it. Sometimes the level of the consequence will effect their choice on whether they cross that line or not.

[DangerousDaze]

Crucifixion's a doddle.

[Narradisall]

Crucifixion's a doddle.

If I ever see someone getting crucified, I know I'm going to have to *really* try hard not to start singing, or at least even humming 'Always look on the bright side of life'

[Mike Kelehan]

Depends if you believe some rapists can control their urges, and there are few few people who kill as a compulsion. Granted just raping children would likely see the same punishment so killing them probably makes sense from a practical 'not getting caught' point of view.

Heavy sentencing will put some off. Psycologically rapists can be opportunists who weigh up the risk/reward of the opportunities. Not all of them are compulsively driven and determined.

So you think there are people out there who'd say, "What's the worst that could happen? Life in prison? Okay, let's do it. Wait, beheading? Oh, nevermind then."

If your mind works at that level, and logic has any part of the decision... hell, if there is really any decision happening, no sentence is going to change your mind. Getting caught raping and killing a child is THE END. I'd way rather be quickly beheaded than live in prison as a convicted child rapist. I'd rather be beheaded SLOWLY.

[Narradisall]

So you think there are people out there who'd say, "What's the worst that could happen? Life in prison? Okay, let's do it. Wait, beheading? Oh, nevermind then."

If your mind works at that level, and logic has any part of the decision... hell, if there is really any decision happening, no sentence is going to change your mind. Getting caught raping and killing a child is THE END. I'd way rather be quickly beheaded than live in prison as a convicted child rapist. I'd rather be beheaded SLOWLY.

Maybe they'll just rape them then. Sorted.

[Generation ABXY]

I think we had a thread about capital punishment once. My stance is pretty much the same: I'd be happy to give it up, if prison were actually prison.

[CappinCanuck]

I think we had a thread about capital punishment once. My stance is pretty much the same: I'd be happy to give it up, if prison were actually prison.

Well, I assume you're talking about the notion that some prisoners have it too easy, or that some offer too many entertainment options? I wouldn't worry, most of the ones that would house the violent offenders, having committed the type of crimes that you would get capital punishment for, are not like that. In fact, very few are. Most of those are the light sec. prisons that would house non-violent and white collar criminals who would never get a cap. pun. sentence anyway. Most prisons are pretty brutal places.

On an unrelated note, anybody watch Felon? What a great movie heh.

[Generation ABXY]

Well, my idea of a prison is still a little different: a single-person cell, and that’s it (no yard, cafeteria, or any other area for recreation and socialization). And, although I’m quite open to decriminalizing a few things beforehand, it would apply to everyone.

[Ultima Thulian]

That would work well.

[Generation ABXY]

I don't really see the problem.

You're still alive, you still have your unlimited appeals, and it avoids the other common liberal complaint that jail only breeds worse criminals (by exposing them to bad elements). It could also cut down on the opportunity for abuse by guards and other prisoners, while potentially saving money and space.

Plus, I think it would be one hell of a deterrent.

If you still commit a crime then, even knowing what awaits you, perhaps you deserve to be locked in a dark hole for a little while.

[Ultima Thulian]

Yea. Just put them in solitary confinement for 5 years or so. They'll come out daisy fresh, ready to so not go on a fucking loony-bin rampage.

I can see your methods being applied to a select few, but everyone? C'mon man. You don't even wanna fathom the damage to the psyche solitary confinement can do to a person, especially if it done for years and years.

[Ink Asylum]

Yeah, if you're going to be locking someone in a hole for years with next to no human contact, recreation, or entertainment you might as well keep them there for the rest of their lives because they're going to be coming out more fucked up than they went in.

Ideally, prison should be a deterrent while also being some form of rehabilitation. What you're proposing is simply the former with none of the latter. I'm sure it feels great to be able to just say "Well, if you don't want to go there don't commit a crime," but unless it's a one way trip into prison a society is only hurting itself by locking every criminal into solitary for months or years only to let them back out into the general populace.

[carnage11]

I wish we could do suspended animation like in Demolition Man. That way, to the prisoner, nothing is lost other than time. The deterrent being the loss of time. Sure time would fly by for you, but when you got out, depending on how long you were in for, your life could be drastically changed. Girlfriends gone, friends moved on, etc. We could also teach people things, subliminally, like knitting and proper grammar. It would save money on space. Put 'em in ice trays, stack 'em and throw 'em in the freezer.

[Narradisall]

I wish we could do suspended animation like in Demolition Man. That way, to the prisoner, nothing is lost other than time. The deterrent being the loss of time. Sure time would fly by for you, but when you got out, depending on how long you were in for, your life could be drastically changed. Girlfriends gone, friends moved on, etc. We could also teach people things, subliminally, like knitting and proper grammar. It would save money on space. Put 'em in ice trays, stack 'em and throw 'em in the freezer.

Plus they wouldn't know how to use the three sea shells. *snicker*

[Shamrock Jimmy]

I wish we could do suspended animation like in Demolition Man. That way, to the prisoner, nothing is lost other than time. The deterrent being the loss of time. Sure time would fly by for you, but when you got out, depending on how long you were in for, your life could be drastically changed. Girlfriends gone, friends moved on, etc. We could also teach people things, subliminally, like knitting and proper grammar. It would save money on space. Put 'em in ice trays, stack 'em and throw 'em in the freezer.

Did you actually see that movie?

[Serapth]

I support this fully, including the entire brutallity of it, or in fact especially because of it. Studys seem to indicate Pedo's dont reform and this is a damned good deterent to someone who hasn't officially crossed the line into pedo land.

[LongStepMantis]

I can think of a worse punishment:

Ny4a-oxOndo

;)

[carnage11]

Did you actually see that movie?

Yes, many....many times. Why?