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View Full Version : More Modern Warfare 2 PC Hijinks: Limited to 9v9


DoctorFinger
11-04-2009, 12:06 PM
Three months ago had you polled PC and console gamers to try and divine the most popular developer in the industry Infinity Ward very well may have come out on top. So very, very much can change in a season.

If all of the other reasons PC gamers have to be mad at the studio over their handling of Modern Warfare 2 (http://www.colonyofgamers.com/cogforums/tags.php?tag=modern+warfare+2), now comes this (http://twitter.com/BenKuchera/status/5424903508): multiplayer matches in the game will max out a 9 vs 9. While that's one more a side than you get on the console versions of the game, it's vastly less than the average PC first person shooter, and way less than the 25 vs 25 on CoD: World at War (which was developed by Treyarch, not Infinity Ward).

I think the best response to this comes from our own Jackel (http://www.colonyofgamers.com/cogforums/member.php?u=37) on twitter: Pretty soon you'll just be buying an empty box for the PC version of MW2 with a picture of the 360 version inside it.Source - Ben Kuchera (http://twitter.com/BenKuchera/status/5424903508).

Shadowstorm
11-04-2009, 12:08 PM
Would they care to announce any more reasons not to buy this game?

DoctorFinger
11-04-2009, 12:12 PM
Would they care to announce any more reasons not to buy this game?Ben Kuchera again on Twitter (http://twitter.com/BenKuchera/status/5425390691):Infinity Ward: "We're proud and happy to announce every copy of Modern Warfare 2 on the PC comes with the fucking swine flu."

total
11-04-2009, 12:12 PM
And I'm done. Looks like I'll be buying MW2 on the 360 when it is around $20 (and that will be used). Activision is done for PCs. I won't bother buying another game from them on the platform.

Shadowstorm
11-04-2009, 12:21 PM
http://img198.imageshack.us/img198/6537/iwpcgamers.png


http://www.mzzt.net/tf2/light/sapper/blue/Infinity%20Ward/red/Dedicated%20Servers.png

(It'd probably be more accurate to replace IW with Activision)

DoctorFinger
11-04-2009, 12:22 PM
It is kind of shocking how these Sacred Cows of gaming have been flung down in the past year or so. Valve. Tim Schafer. Warren Spector. Infinity Ward. All of whom were loved by gamers and, to an extent, could do no wrong. Now they've all, to varying degrees, lost the unwavering affecting and devotion of gamers.

Jackel
11-04-2009, 12:22 PM
The decision to make it 9 v 9 is probably a smart one considering they gimped the game going with p2p as opposed to dedicated servers

Actually. I think Violent said it best on irc:

Violent: It's like getting a turd for Christmas and giving you a toilet to put it in rather than a mantle.

AgtFox
11-04-2009, 12:49 PM
It is kind of shocking how these Sacred Cows of gaming have been flung down in the past year or so. Valve. Tim Schafer. Warren Spector. Infinity Ward. All of whom were loved by gamers and, to an extent, could do no wrong. Now they've all, to varying degrees, lost the unwavering affecting and devotion of gamers.
Valve? Really? Yeah, there was the petition, but then the runners of that got to see Left 4 Dead 2 and it eventually led to the petition being pulled. Nevermind that the sequel never affected the pre-orders which were at 2x the orders of the original at the same moment from release.

I can somewhat agree with the rest of your list although I still like Schafer and Spector. Then again I still enjoy Disney stuff at my age.

I will say thought that Blizzard is about the only Midas touch developer out there that can do no wrong (there may be more, but they immediately come to mind). And if they think there might be something wrong, they'll cancel it before it comes out.

Acidpoptart
11-04-2009, 12:52 PM
I knew it. There is no way you could cut dedicated server support and then allow large matches. I am surprised they are even supporting 9v9 rather than just 6v6. The networking model they are going with just can not support the large games we expect.

IW: I officially hate you now. You went from one of my favorite shooter developers to shit, in my book at least, so damn quickly. You some how managed to make Treyarch look better.

Adam Blue
11-04-2009, 01:04 PM
Remember pre-ordering on Amazon gives you $20 for future game purchase...and NSMB Wii gives you $10...it kinda works out.

IW created CoD and brought the BF persistence system to the masses. Not much IMO. Treyarch has always looked better IMO.

Although this could be an Activision thing...what do you think?

H.Bogard
11-04-2009, 01:04 PM
I seriously disagree with anyone antagonizing Valve.

And yeah, if anyone needed any other reason not to buy the PC version, this is it. 9v9 is pathetic. They're charging $60 for a PC game with a 6 hour campaign, no modding, and fucking 18 player multiplayer.

TheEpicOfTyler
11-04-2009, 01:13 PM
Tim Schafer.

What did Schafer do? :confused:

Karmakin
11-04-2009, 01:17 PM
I'm going to go against the grain here.

I don't see how larger teams works for a game such as MW. Options are always nice, of course, but the nature of the maps/spawning system IMO is designed for smaller matches.

Now, I think getting rid of dedicated servers is stupid for other reasons. But smaller teams don't to me strike me as one of them.

Superman's Dead
11-04-2009, 01:18 PM
I love how this is all coming out slowly. It's like, on release day, they're going to say, "Oh, yeah! PC only gets like two guns or something. We played a lot of pinball. Fuck Treyarch!"

Then they drop the mic and crowdsurf.

Talanvor
11-04-2009, 01:21 PM
Funny, I thought it was going to be a hard choice between Borderlands and MW2 for the next shooter I buy. Thanks for making that decision so easy, Activision and IW!

J Arcane
11-04-2009, 01:22 PM
Would they care to announce any more reasons not to buy this game?
Here's some:

>Lowlights from the BestBuy Dev chat with IW regarding MW2:

>* Dedicated server questions were greeted by being escorted out of the chat.
>* Max players for all versions is 9v9. Yes, I said 9v9.
>* No record feature in MW2 for PC.
>* No lean in the PC version (Mackey-IW: The game is not balanced for lean.)
>* PC Game is not yet finished*

>Q: Is there a console in the PC version of the game, so we can change our field of view from the xbox's default 65 FOV to 80 also can we tweaks the weapon damage for each gun, removes perks, graphical debris, breathing sway, also thru console like we where able to before or is this all gone?

>Vince-IW: We would like you to play the game the way we designed and balanced it.

http://bashandslash.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=775&Itemid=111

Xerxes
11-04-2009, 01:22 PM
What did Schafer do? :confused:

I think it's the whole playing a RTS like an RTS when it was supposed to be played differently.

H.Bogard
11-04-2009, 01:24 PM
Funny, I thought it was going to be a hard choice between Borderlands and MW2 for the next shooter I buy. Thanks for making that decision so easy, Activision and IW!

There could always have been bigger community-made maps... oh wait!

J Arcane
11-04-2009, 01:24 PM
Valve? Really? Yeah, there was the petition, but then the runners of that got to see Left 4 Dead 2 and it eventually led to the petition being pulled. Nevermind that the sequel never affected the pre-orders which were at 2x the orders of the original at the same moment from release.

After my time with the demo, I maintain that L4D2 would've made a fantastic expansion pack, but charging full price for what's on offer here is ludicrous.

Then again, I didn't think the original was worth full price either. I only paid $20 for mine.

crazyD
11-04-2009, 01:24 PM
(It'd probably be more accurate to replace IW with Activision)

I doubt that, after all the quotes from IW defending this. I haven't heard that this is an edict from Acti, and IW seems to be really excited about the removal.

What did Schafer do? :confused:

I'm guessing he's talking about not releasing Brutal Legend on PC, but that's the publisher's call, not the developer's.

I think it's the whole playing a RTS like an RTS when it was supposed to be played differently.

Ugh. People are upset because the game has fairly intricate controls but can and should be played in a very simple matter which is obvious if you pay attention? I bet the vast majority of the complaints on that front would be removed if there was no option to individually direct certain troops, which is an action that should be used in only the rarest of circumstances anyway.

AgtFox
11-04-2009, 01:28 PM
What did Schafer do? :confused:
There's plenty of people out there that didn't like Brutal Legend, which was hyped to high heaven would be my guess.

As for who we blame this on, I would say it is squarely in IW's court. I think they made a deal with Activision: they could do what they want with CoD as long as Treyarch could develop a CoD game for the off year so they can continue to roll in money.

crazyD
11-04-2009, 01:29 PM
I'm going to go against the grain here.

I don't see how larger teams works for a game such as MW. Options are always nice, of course, but the nature of the maps/spawning system IMO is designed for smaller matches.

Now, I think getting rid of dedicated servers is stupid for other reasons. But smaller teams don't to me strike me as one of them.

I dunno, I had the most fun playing MW on large maps. I didn't have a problem with balance or anything.

AgtFox
11-04-2009, 01:31 PM
After my time with the demo, I maintain that L4D2 would've made a fantastic expansion pack, but charging full price for what's on offer here is ludicrous.

Then again, I didn't think the original was worth full price either. I only paid $20 for mine.
I don't own the original or plan on buying the new one. I'm an oddity, I know. I can see where you're coming from though, but from everything I've heard it is more than a simple expansion pack.

violent
11-04-2009, 01:33 PM
Modern Warfare wasn't that good to begin with. I really hope this sells like shit on the PC because this trend needs to be shot in the water.

Correction: It was a good game, I just never got into it.

DoctorFinger
11-04-2009, 01:35 PM
Valve? Really? Yeah, there was the petition, but then the runners of that got to see Left 4 Dead 2 and it eventually led to the petition being pulled. Nevermind that the sequel never affected the pre-orders which were at 2x the orders of the original at the same moment from release.The boycott fizzled, but the very fact that such a large and vocal movement came about to me proves that they're no longer on the pedestal they were on even a year back. MW2 may be the best selling game of the decade, but the bloom is off IW's rose, especially with PC gamers.

Blizzard is another one. The growing ennui with WoW, the Activision acquisition, the splitting of Starcraft II into 3 games, the lack of LAN play, all lowered Blizz in the eyes of gamers.

J Arcane
11-04-2009, 01:39 PM
I don't own the original or plan on buying the new one. I'm an oddity, I know. I can see where you're coming from though, but from everything I've heard it is more than a simple expansion pack.

Of course they've done their level best to sell it as such to make up for the obvious PR flaw, but in actual play it feels like L4D1 with a graphics skin, a few new gameplay tricks, and tacked on melee. "The game remains the same", as the 4e guys used to say, only this time it's true.

It's fun, but it's not $50 worth of new content.
Modern Warfare wasn't that good to begin with. I really hope this sells like shit on the PC because this trend needs to be shot in the water.

Well, right now on Steam, it's being beaten out by a football manager and a $20 "Diablo with mods". This despite them having been plastered all over Steam's front page for weeks, and a promotional sale on the first MW.

I don't think it's going to be anymore than modest at best on PC, frankly.

violent
11-04-2009, 01:43 PM
Well, right now on Steam, it's being beaten out by a football manager and a $20 "Diablo with mods". This despite them having been plastered all over Steam's front page for weeks, and a promotional sale on the first MW.

I don't think it's going to be anymore than modest at best on PC, frankly.

I really love PC gamers sometimes.

AgtFox
11-04-2009, 01:47 PM
Don't have the computer to play MW2 probably, so that avenue isn't really an option. Don't even know if I'll be picking up the 360 version. Maybe Activision will send it, maybe they won't...we'll see.

I am disappointed in Infinity Ward though. Like someone said, I wonder what they're going to drop on us on release day. The leaked footage was not their fault (but it still would have been covered by the mainstream when people started to see it), but the PC problems and the FAGS video makes me question their sanity in regards to the people that brought them to where they are today.

Is the Infinity Ward group pretty much made up of the same people that were there when it was 2015 and in the early IW years? I honestly don't know and maybe someone else knows.

Wilkz07
11-04-2009, 02:07 PM
glad i'm getting it (eventually) on console rather than pc. would rather be limited to what the console can do than expect more from the pc version with a pc that exceeds requirements.

Ravenlock
11-04-2009, 04:28 PM
I don't think it's going to be anymore than modest at best on PC, frankly.

Which I would cheer, if I didn't foresee the inevitable press release of "PC sales numbers below expectations; Infinity Ward driven to console development by PC pirates."

Still, they're making it extremely clear - to the point of extremely dismissive arrogance - that they no longer care about their game being a PC FPS, so I can't find myself caring much about it failing to sell there, no matter what they choose to blame it on in the end.

J Arcane
11-04-2009, 04:31 PM
So? They quit the platform, whoopety shit. After shit like this, what exactly are we losing?

In the meantime, they make room for the guys who aren't dicks. DICE rededicating themselves to PC support. Those football managers and Diablo clones I was talking about. Bioware returning to the old school ways.

Fuck 'em. Party's better without 'em. This is the easiest platform to develop on in the world, there will always be newcomers to pick up the slack. PC gaming will never die as long as there are PCs.

JayK47
11-04-2009, 04:52 PM
Well this steaming pile is breaking pre-order records on the console side. So we can basically go fuck ourselves since every lost sale on the PC is 2 more sales on the console.

And it looks like the game is being marketed towards consoles as well. Console gamers like killing innocents and calling people fags. At least that is what I gathered from the few times I was unfortunate enough to hear someone talk on Xbox Live. So yeah, we PC gamers need to stop being so "faggy" and get with the console generation.

Seika
11-04-2009, 05:49 PM
What a fracking joke...

At least the PC version has "mouse support".... OOoooohh what is that! :o

Xerxes
11-04-2009, 06:03 PM
Well this steaming pile is breaking pre-order records on the console side. So we can basically go fuck ourselves since every lost sale on the PC is 2 more sales on the console.

And it looks like the game is being marketed towards consoles as well. Console gamers like killing innocents and calling people fags. At least that is what I gathered from the few times I was unfortunate enough to hear someone talk on Xbox Live. So yeah, we PC gamers need to stop being so "faggy" and get with the console generation.

Ok, that's bullshit. And that's also why them forcing us to play with the general population rather than in party chat sucks as major ass. Playing with fuck heads you don't know would be the same on PC as it is on consoles. That's one reason why you have your precious dedicated servers. Nobody wants to listen that shit, console or PC.

Deadend
11-04-2009, 06:06 PM
Well this steaming pile is breaking pre-order records on the console side. So we can basically go fuck ourselves since every lost sale on the PC is 2 more sales on the console.

And it looks like the game is being marketed towards consoles as well. Console gamers like killing innocents and calling people fags. At least that is what I gathered from the few times I was unfortunate enough to hear someone talk on Xbox Live. So yeah, we PC gamers need to stop being so "faggy" and get with the console generation.

Wow.. rage the fuck on, and then pop your head out of your ass.

As far as I can tell, the PC version will have the best graphics.. and the worst everything else, as the P2P will probably be worse than the 360, the friends-list using Iw.net will be worse than XBL/PSN/Steam, and there will probably be some CD-key/DRM crap as well.

IW has a bit of an inflated sense of the quality of their games, and I am kind of hoping that MW2 will be a mediocre SP game with a rehashed MP mod.

Adam Blue
11-04-2009, 06:12 PM
To me, with they way CoD4 development was going, it seemed like the franchise was heading to consoles - no surprise here. I think PC-only gamers are hurting themselves by not paying attention to console gaming.

Chris_D
11-04-2009, 06:15 PM
At what point should COD fans on PC just stick with MW1, which supports dedicated servers, higher player caps, etc. ? I'm sure there will be a reenergising of the mod community for that game now that MW2 seems like such a misfire. Especially because MW2 doesn't seem to support the mod community at all.

Another thing, what if some extremely clever hackers managed to break PC MW2 down and get in dedicated server support, upping the player count. The second should just be a case of changing the setting somewhere, the first, requiring considerably more effort I imagine. Copies of that would fly off torrent sites.

JayK47
11-04-2009, 06:18 PM
I think PC-only gamers are hurting themselves by not paying attention to console gaming.

I think consoles are great for certain games. But I am just not ready to play FPS games, in particular online FPS games, on console when I have a perfectly good PC. The types of things I like about playing FPS games on PC are completely gone from a console, and now from the PC version of MW2. So if every major title goes to console only, I will be playing far less games, or playing whatever is left of PC games. So be it.

Crowe
11-04-2009, 06:26 PM
Oh shit that list is just bad. Burn in hell Infinity Ward.

And just like JAY, there is no fucking way I will go to consoles to play FPS online. I have fun for a little while but I always end up going back to the PC where I feel much more comfortable.

crazyD
11-04-2009, 06:35 PM
To me, with they way CoD4 development was going, it seemed like the franchise was heading to consoles - no surprise here. I think PC-only gamers are hurting themselves by not paying attention to console gaming.

My lack of dedicated server, low player count, and higher price point issues are mirrored on the console version, and I'd have to play with a controller. Just playing it on a console doesn't really solve anything.

Dukefrukem
11-04-2009, 06:43 PM
Would they care to announce any more reasons not to buy this game?

My thoughts exactly.

This isn't even on my top 5 to buy before the end of the year now.

roboninja
11-04-2009, 06:52 PM
So? They quit the platform, whoopety shit. After shit like this, what exactly are we losing?

In the meantime, they make room for the guys who aren't dicks. DICE rededicating themselves to PC support. Those football managers and Diablo clones I was talking about. Bioware returning to the old school ways.

Fuck 'em. Party's better without 'em. This is the easiest platform to develop on in the world, there will always be newcomers to pick up the slack. PC gaming will never die as long as there are PCs.

I totally agree. They were producing what I would consider shitty games for the PC anyhow, I lose basically nothing from this. However, there are people that will use this as calls for the death of PC gaming. I call it an evolution; the unfit are dying off (in the PC gamers eyes, of course).

I also am not shocked in the least by this. Did people really believe 12v12 was coming via P2P? Truthfully, I am surprised it is as high as it is.

EDIT:
At what point should COD fans on PC just stick with MW1, which supports dedicated servers, higher player caps, etc. ? I'm sure there will be a reenergising of the mod community for that game now that MW2 seems like such a misfire. Especially because MW2 doesn't seem to support the mod community at all.


I would imagine many leagues and ladders will remain with MW1.

bryan
11-04-2009, 07:26 PM
Modders and the pro players are a fraction of a fraction of their sales. It's not like Korea where almost everyone you meet on the street plays Starcraft.

No dedicated servers is a pile of poo but I don't mind a smaller population. IW never had any maps that could really accommodate 32 players.

Vandabo
11-05-2009, 12:02 AM
But how am I going to power level in a 32 player FFA game in Shipment now?

Hellbug
11-05-2009, 12:30 AM
This is all very unfortunate, but what is more unfortunate is how many people do not realize how bad this could be for not just PC gaming, but gaming in general. Once Activision successfully cockbeats all of the PC gamers onto the console or console-like experiences, what does that say to the rest of the gaming industry? That they can subtly (or not so subtly in this case) push consumers into buying whatever crap the industry is touting, never mind the expectations that were required of developers before?

I told my friend that I would vote with my dollar and simply not buy Call of Duty: MW2, and he did not see what the purpose of that was. I told him I cannot condone the actions that Activision has made in the recent past, especially with Modern Warfare 2, and as such I use the only weapon I have at my disposal, and that is to simply not buy the game. He then responded, "Okay, but you'll get the Xbox version, right?"

I facepalmed so freakin' hard at that point.

digitalErich
11-05-2009, 01:42 AM
I don't think it's possible for me to not buy this game any harder.

Seika
11-05-2009, 06:13 AM
This is all very unfortunate, but what is more unfortunate is how many people do not realize how bad this could be for not just PC gaming, but gaming in general. Once Activision successfully cockbeats all of the PC gamers onto the console or console-like experiences, what does that say to the rest of the gaming industry? That they can subtly (or not so subtly in this case) push consumers into buying whatever crap the industry is touting, never mind the expectations that were required of developers before?

I told my friend that I would vote with my dollar and simply not buy Call of Duty: MW2, and he did not see what the purpose of that was. I told him I cannot condone the actions that Activision has made in the recent past, especially with Modern Warfare 2, and as such I use the only weapon I have at my disposal, and that is to simply not buy the game. He then responded, "Okay, but you'll get the Xbox version, right?"

I facepalmed so freakin' hard at that point.

I completely agree.

PC gamers need to make their voice be heard, vote with your money people.

And I seriously don't get where all the hate from console gamers towards pc gamers is coming from. After all, we are just trying to protect Gaming in general.

You know console gamers, some of you guys laugh at us now, but when Activision is done backstabbing their last PC Gamer, where do you thing they will turn to next? ;)
Then when YOU ask for support, who will be there? that's right, no one.

Crowe
11-05-2009, 06:36 AM
I don't think it's possible for me to not buy this game any harder.

Priceless, I had a hearty laugh as it caught me unexpected. It applies to me also.

CappinCanuck
11-05-2009, 09:22 AM
Priceless, I had a hearty laugh as it caught me unexpected. It applies to me also.

Ditto. I was on the fence from the start but it just got easier and easier to say no. No to this, no to L4D2 even, no to Napoleon: Total War. Sorry, no more buying your crap after you screw me. Now, hopefully the titles above excel and prove me wrong, but either way, I'll be voting with my dollar.

Drayven
11-05-2009, 11:27 AM
I've seen threads about this and I guess I'm just not sure where the problem is. Admittedly I am one of those evil console players but if the maps are only designed to support 18 people why would you even want to play it with 40? Just seems like common sense to me that they can focus on building multiplayer maps with a certain number of people in mind.

crazyD
11-05-2009, 12:11 PM
I've seen threads about this and I guess I'm just not sure where the problem is. Admittedly I am one of those evil console players but if the maps are only designed to support 18 people why would you even want to play it with 40? Just seems like common sense to me that they can focus on building multiplayer maps with a certain number of people in mind.

Because, in the last game, I enjoyed playing 32 player maps, and the ability to do so will not be available in the sequel. Also, designing maps so they aren't balanced with as many players is not a positive in my mind.

Primus
11-05-2009, 12:23 PM
Due to the fast paced nature of the game, anything above 8v8 seems like it would be a nightmare.

crazyD
11-05-2009, 12:58 PM
Have you ever played the PC version? It works out pretty well.

c0m3d14n
11-05-2009, 01:00 PM
I've seen threads about this and I guess I'm just not sure where the problem is. Admittedly I am one of those evil console players but if the maps are only designed to support 18 people why would you even want to play it with 40? Just seems like common sense to me that they can focus on building multiplayer maps with a certain number of people in mind.

this is just one more reason to not buy it
for me and i guess most of the other pc gamers who wont buy it the main reason is no dedicated server and all the drawbacks that ensue from that

a big point for me is also no mod support, which implicates, i guess, only a limited amount of maps with the added bonus of having to pay for mappacks

tf2 is doing it right ;)

CappinCanuck
11-05-2009, 01:06 PM
I've seen threads about this and I guess I'm just not sure where the problem is. Admittedly I am one of those evil console players but if the maps are only designed to support 18 people why would you even want to play it with 40? Just seems like common sense to me that they can focus on building multiplayer maps with a certain number of people in mind.

Because, in the last game, I enjoyed playing 32 player maps, and the ability to do so will not be available in the sequel.

Exactly. We're not unhappy that we can't play 32v32 on 9v9 maps, but that we can't make/play larger maps that would be suitable for 16v16 or 32v32.

Shjinta
11-05-2009, 01:10 PM
Exactly. We're not unhappy that we can't play 32v32 on 9v9 maps, but that we can't make/play larger maps that would be suitable for 16v16 or 32v32.

9 v9 screams of camping maps. yeah that's sooo much fun.

DoctorFinger
11-05-2009, 01:11 PM
The PC community - or at least a fairly large, vocal section of it - is all about the changeable experience. They want to take the core game and tweak it, add to it, play around with it and see what they come up with. IW is taking all of that out of the game. It's not a loss for console gamers, but that changeability is something PC gamers expect, and even a minor thing like drastically limiting the number of players in a game is just another sign of that constraint.

Ravenlock
11-05-2009, 02:11 PM
Yeah, I mean, if the maps they designed work best for 9v9, great, those maps should absolutely be limited to 9v9.

But technologically there should be no reason that the game can't handle more than 9v9. I mean on a good dedicated server - oh wait - people could put on the custom maps that they design for more than 9v9 - oh wait - and then host a match with as many players as they want, tweaking whatever settings make sense. Oh wait. I forgot. All that stuff has been quite deliberately hosed.

My favorite Twitter comment about all this (via @dangreiner) was "Pretty soon you'll just be buying an empty box for the PC version of MW2 with a picture of the 360 version inside it."

Dukefrukem
11-05-2009, 02:25 PM
It's almost like they did this 9v9 thing so they could say they fixed the nade spamming problem.

AliasRomanian
11-05-2009, 04:14 PM
I'll be sticking with World at War :).

Edit*
I'll be sticking with TF2 :)

Cit Phil Cit
11-05-2009, 04:18 PM
It's funny, because I would never get a gold Live! account, but I currently pay $5 a month for a slot on voogru for their TF2 servers; I pay, because the servers are packed with challenging players, good ping, good admin and a sense of humour.

Which in this instance is an utter and complete impossibility. And it's funny because I am paying because of the 'community': challenging players, good moderation, a sense of humour and the connection speed. None of which are possible without dedicated servers.

The question is, why is this service not advocated or embrace? Where is the downside? Why not have an option on a console to have it run as a dedicated server for other players to connect to?

My opinion is, closed environments for players are like public pools without the chlorine.

MagGnome
11-05-2009, 10:28 PM
I really, really hope the PC version of this game flops and the series becomes console-only.

The "play it our way or not at all" mantra coming from IW completely goes against the PC market, so they might as well not bother with the port at all.

I've said it before, but I wasn't going to buy this game anyway. The CoD games have always been dull to me, and I'm not a big FPS player. Still, on principle I hope this really hits them in the pocketbook.

MagGnome
11-05-2009, 10:34 PM
Fuck 'em. Party's better without 'em. This is the easiest platform to develop on in the world, there will always be newcomers to pick up the slack. PC gaming will never die as long as there are PCs.

Exactly. In my opinion we are in the middle of a renaissance on the PC. There are a lot of small studios developing great, original titles on the platform that are reaching a wide audience and sparking great discussions and hours upon hours of fun. World of Goo is an obvious example, but there are many others as well. It's a great time to be gaming on the PC, and if IW wants to piss on the party, so be it. They'll hopefully be shown the door and they can go rain on someone else's parade.


Did that mixed metaphor make sense to anyone else? :p


My thoughts exactly.

This isn't even on my top 5 to buy before the end of the year now.

Apparently a lot of people feel the same way, because I have yet to see it crack the top 5 on Steam's sale list, which really surprises me:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v58/JacobD/sales.jpg

Maybe the outrage will be felt after all.

Grifter
11-05-2009, 10:49 PM
I'm surprised most of you have time to play games at all with all the whining and crying you do. Any way, while you all are crying into your cornflakes I'll be enjoying this finely crafted, well built FPS.

J Arcane
11-05-2009, 11:06 PM
I'm surprised most of you have time to play games at all with all the whining and crying you do. Any way, while you all are crying into your cornflakes I'll be enjoying this finely crafted, well built FPS.
Is it fair to point out I got warned for saying something almost exactly like this once?

MagGnome
11-05-2009, 11:17 PM
Is it fair to point out I got warned for saying something almost exactly like this once?

Maybe he'll be playing with nothing but griefers, 12 year-olds, and racists. That will be punishment enough. ;)

Ravenlock
11-05-2009, 11:42 PM
Seriously. Listening to the audience for whom the "Fight Against Grenade Spam" video was made is a torment I'm really glad I get to avoid.

muddi900
11-05-2009, 11:43 PM
I've seen threads about this and I guess I'm just not sure where the problem is. Admittedly I am one of those evil console players but if the maps are only designed to support 18 people why would you even want to play it with 40? Just seems like common sense to me that they can focus on building multiplayer maps with a certain number of people in mind.

Well we can always download maps...oh wait. EDIT: wow! this joke was too easy.

The issue is the same, they have basically limited the ability of what can be done on the platform.

EDIT: Steam sales aren't a decent gauge. People still mostly buy retail. Yes we want it to crash and burn, but its not going to. The only thing we can do is not buy it.

Crowe
11-05-2009, 11:58 PM
I'm surprised most of you have time to play games at all with all the whining and crying you do. Any way, while you all are crying into your cornflakes I'll be enjoying this finely crafted, well built FPS.

It's amazing you have time to play games at all coming when your here being a fucking prick. Take a hike.

Do you play COD on PC? Have you never played an FPS on the pc for an extended period of time? I find it hard to believe you have as you would not be saying that shit if you had. Discussion of video games does not have to be solely about sucking the dick of every developer and publisher and praising every single game. I was fucking pumped to play this game, and they fucked that up by taking away the very things that make my PC experience awesome.

J Arcane
11-06-2009, 03:03 AM
Some more news: Impulse (http://ve3d.ign.com/articles/news/51233/Stardocks-Impulse-Service-Also-Refuses-To-Sell-Modern-Warfare-2) And D2D (http://ve3d.ign.com/articles/news/51232/Direct2Drive-Refuses-To-Stock-Modern-Warfare-2-Its-Steam-Powered-Trojan-Horse) are refusing to carry MW2, because of the forced Steam bundling.

Ever classy, the Gamespy/IGN-run Fileplanet actually went so far as to call it a "trojan horse":

"We don’t believe games should force the user to install a Trojan Horse," said the company -- referring to Steam, in a statement explaining its decision.

There's now also word that the great John Carmack may be following in IW's wake: No dedicated servers in RAGE. (http://www.bluesnews.com/cgi-bin/board.pl?action=viewstory&threadid=104025)

Oh and of course, Activision is unconcerned about the complaints, and has just announced they intend to continue a yearly schedule for COD releases.

Great day for gaming, isn't it? :/

H.Bogard
11-06-2009, 03:50 AM
It baffles me, the amount of controversial headlines that this one game has generated in a month.

muddi900
11-06-2009, 03:59 AM
Some more news: Impulse (http://ve3d.ign.com/articles/news/51233/Stardocks-Impulse-Service-Also-Refuses-To-Sell-Modern-Warfare-2) And D2D (http://ve3d.ign.com/articles/news/51232/Direct2Drive-Refuses-To-Stock-Modern-Warfare-2-Its-Steam-Powered-Trojan-Horse) are refusing to carry MW2, because of the forced Steam bundling.

Ever classy, the Gamespy/IGN-run Fileplanet actually went so far as to call it a "trojan horse":


D2D have no problem with DOW2,which also required Steam, or Batman Arkham Asylum, which requires GFWL. I know Impulse doesn't have both, so that's understandable, but I don't really see D2D's position.

Grifter
11-06-2009, 04:04 AM
Alls I'm saying is get the fuck over it. We have 3 threads (that I've seen) full of the same people crying about this. Whats done is done, we know Activision is the king douche in this industry so move on already. I have no problem with people discussing video games, what gets old is the constant whining and complaining.

It's amazing you have time to play games at all coming when your here being a fucking prick. Take a hike.

Do you play COD on PC? Have you never played an FPS on the pc for an extended period of time? I find it hard to believe you have as you would not be saying that shit if you had. Discussion of video games does not have to be solely about sucking the dick of every developer and publisher and praising every single game. I was fucking pumped to play this game, and they fucked that up by taking away the very things that make my PC experience awesome.

I've been PC gaming for over twenty years I just have better things to do than consistently cry over the same spilled milk over and over again. I will play and enjoy the single player of COD:MW 2 because it's going to be a damn fun experience, if the multi-player sucks then so be it, I'll go play something else.

It's obvious you are more distraught over this situation than I realized and apologize for belittling your pain I just think people should move on already, there are plenty of other good games coming out so go play one of them.

EDIT: It's not just this game I feel this way about but gaming discussions in general and this site seems to have become unusually bad the last month or so. I have no problem discussing bad games or bad decisions in game development it's all the self righteous nerd rage that gets annoying (a little is understandable) and turns a thread from a proper discussion into a bitch fest.

H.Bogard
11-06-2009, 04:10 AM
I'll be that guy: *then

Chris_D
11-06-2009, 06:06 AM
Alls I'm saying is get the fuck over it... blah blah blah essay..

And whining about other people whining is worse. Let them do their thing and go and create your own thread.

Crowe
11-06-2009, 06:30 AM
Alls I'm saying is get the fuck over it. We have 3 threads (that I've seen) full of the same people crying about this. Whats done is done, we know Activision is the king douche in this industry so move on already. I have no problem with people discussing video games, what gets old is the constant whining and complaining.



I've been PC gaming for over twenty years I just have better things to do than consistently cry over the same spilled milk over and over again. I will play and enjoy the single player of COD:MW 2 because it's going to be a damn fun experience, if the multi-player sucks then so be it, I'll go play something else.

It's obvious you are more distraught over this situation than I realized and apologize for belittling your pain I just think people should move on already, there are plenty of other good games coming out so go play one of them.

I will play the single player game and I will love it. And I will continue to shit all over Infinity Ward and Activision every chance I get, this is the only thing on PC that has really pissed me off. Once I'm done with my courses I have a mean summer of fruit picking too slog through...MW 2 was going to be my savior, after a 12 hour day with the temps hitting 40 celcuis nothing like letting off some steam in the deathmatch. I'm allowed to be distraught and a little irrational.

Expect the bitching to continue too, every piece of news coming out deserved to be shat on, There is always going to be support for the PC, I have my eyes on Battlefield 3!!! Although I doubt it will come by the start of this summer.

roboninja
11-06-2009, 06:42 AM
*snip*

"Just get over it already, geez! The ass-fucking doesn't hurt that much, I have even begun to enjoy it"

MagGnome
11-06-2009, 07:32 AM
EDIT: Steam sales aren't a decent gauge. People still mostly buy retail. Yes we want it to crash and burn, but its not going to. The only thing we can do is not buy it.

Obviously Steam isn't going to account for the majority of the game's sales, but it's telling that Borderlands, Left 4 Dead 2, Football Manager 2010, Dragon Age, Torchlight, and a few other titles have steadily remained above MW2 in the sales list. If you had told me six months ago that MW2 would be hanging out in the bottom half of the list this close to release I would have been very surprised. I'm sure it will surge up towards the top when it comes out, but I doubt it will remain there for nearly as long as some other recent games have.


Discussion of video games does not have to be solely about sucking the dick of every developer and publisher and praising every single game.

No, you are wrong. Criticizing developers and publishers is absolutely not allowed, lest they suddenly cease to exist. :p

Ravenlock
11-06-2009, 08:26 AM
In some ways, Grifter, I agree with you, but I also take the position I've frequently heard espoused by fishbang over on IGC that it's important that somebody not "just let it drop", because when a company is deliberately making things worse for a segment of their consumer base, and especially when it seems to carry the risk of others following suit, rolling over and taking it is the surest way to see that it doesn't get any better.

Now I'll agree that sitting around kvetching on a forum about it doesn't have any impact, but keeping people aware of it and engaged in opposing it arguably can. In any event I can't see where it hurts anybody. The thread is easy to not read, and if there's a different legitimate issue you think we should be discussing that we're not, bring it up. :)

H.Bogard
11-06-2009, 08:30 AM
I fantasize about Ravenlock being an angry forum troll sometimes.

Make it happen, man!

Ravenlock
11-06-2009, 09:09 AM
I just don't have the rage. My anger is more of a seething thing. ;)

AgtFox
11-06-2009, 09:29 AM
Alls I'm saying is get the fuck over it. We have 3 threads (that I've seen) full of the same people crying about this. Whats done is done, we know Activision is the king douche in this industry so move on already. I have no problem with people discussing video games, what gets old is the constant whining and complaining.

...

EDIT: It's not just this game I feel this way about but gaming discussions in general and this site seems to have become unusually bad the last month or so. I have no problem discussing bad games or bad decisions in game development it's all the self righteous nerd rage that gets annoying (a little is understandable) and turns a thread from a proper discussion into a bitch fest.
Sorry to tell you that this is an open forum where people can bitch about whatever they want. You bitching about people bitching only continues that which you don't want to see. If you don't want to join in this discussion and just want to bitch about people bitching, maybe conversing in another thread would be a good idea.

Fact is this thread is one ripe for bitching given the title (More Modern Warfare 2 PC Hijinks: Limited to 9v9) especially when the last iteration from the same developer had a higher versus count and included dedicated servers on the PC side. People have every right to bitch about this the same as they do about the FAGS video and the other stuff.

CappinCanuck
11-06-2009, 09:43 AM
D2D have no problem with DOW2,which also required Steam, or Batman Arkham Asylum, which requires GFWL. I know Impulse doesn't have both, so that's understandable, but I don't really see D2D's position.

Companies can change their position. They have said that they became concerned when DoW2 and Empire: Total War were released.

GFWL isn't the same thing at all though.

I still couldn't care less what happens with MW2, uber success or not. I still feel MW just got lucky coming between a lot of nothing from DICE and the Battlefield series. There, I said it.

crazyD
11-06-2009, 10:10 AM
GFWL isn't the same thing at all though.

GFWL is as much a trojan for consumers as Steam is. They just aren't a competitor to Fileplanet.

CappinCanuck
11-06-2009, 11:08 AM
GFWL is as much a trojan for consumers as Steam is. They just aren't a competitor to Fileplanet.

Perhaps, but they aren't a distribution client. They're more of an online gateway. Btw, I agree with you. I hate GFWL because it replicates services already offered in the clients and just over complicates things (and generally for being a POS).

Crowe
11-06-2009, 11:08 AM
I only use Steam, if I would buying MW2 I would be much happier it being through Steam than GFWL. I have steam running all the time so I would be happy for every game run through it, does anyone really have a problem with it anymore?.

CappinCanuck
11-06-2009, 11:24 AM
I only use Steam, if I would buying MW2 I would be much happier it being through Steam than GFWL. I have steam running all the time so I would be happy for every game run through it, does anyone really have a problem with it anymore?.

There really isn't a Steam vs GFWL argument here. All steam games are steam games, not all steam games are GFWL games, but all GFWL games are steam games (Replace steam with any other distribution client). I haven't heard from anyone that they would prefer to have GFWL over nothing heh.

Crowe
11-06-2009, 11:28 AM
There really isn't a Steam vs GFWL argument here. All steam games are steam games, not all steam games are GFWL games, but all GFWL games are steam games (Replace steam with any other distribution client). I haven't heard from anyone that they would prefer to have GFWL over nothing heh.

Yeah my post was meant for the DD thread.

CappinCanuck
11-06-2009, 11:29 AM
Yeah my post was meant for the DD thread.

It is kind of confusing isn't it. There's about 2 threads on this topic plus the DD one heh.

total
11-06-2009, 11:34 AM
I haven't heard from anyone that they would prefer to have GFWL over nothing heh.

I would. I actually like GFWL. I am pretty sure I am the only one around these parts that does.

CappinCanuck
11-06-2009, 11:51 AM
I would. I actually like GFWL. I am pretty sure I am the only one around these parts that does.

Heh, maybe. You know, I would agree if every game was GFWL and didn't have the replicated services in another client I have to be running, I would love it too. Just like I would like it if every game went through Steam/Impulse/Xfire for the social parts so everyone could connect to everyone. Steam/Impulse/etc. is good because it transcends each individual game's communities. I'm not sure I like another community (game), on top of another community (client) on top of another (gfwl): too many! For the social aspects, Steam/Impulse/Whatever or GFWL please.

roboninja
11-06-2009, 02:43 PM
I would. I actually like GFWL. I am pretty sure I am the only one around these parts that does.

I will admit that it is greatly improved over what it once was. The use in Red Faction:Guerrilla was rather smooth (other than refusing to automatically log me in).

Then again, if I am buying the game via Steam, I prefer the all-in-one approach.

Ravenlock
11-06-2009, 02:48 PM
Yeah, RFG refuses to automatically log me in as well. Pretty much my only complaint with the game, though.

MagGnome
11-07-2009, 01:59 PM
I would. I actually like GFWL. I am pretty sure I am the only one around these parts that does.

Probably! :p

I don't like GFWL at all, but I'm pretty sure my feelings on the subject are well known around here.

pomeroy
11-07-2009, 04:54 PM
Probably! :p

I don't like GFWL at all, but I'm pretty sure my feelings on the subject are well known around here.

I also hear that you had no interest in MW2, or anything Activision puts out. :D

MagGnome
11-07-2009, 06:36 PM
I also hear that you had no interest in MW2, or anything Activision puts out. :D

Really, is it that obvious? :p

Slack3r78
11-07-2009, 08:23 PM
D2D have no problem with DOW2,which also required Steam, or Batman Arkham Asylum, which requires GFWL. I know Impulse doesn't have both, so that's understandable, but I don't really see D2D's position.
I bought Saints Row 2 on D2D, which pretty much just gave me a product key to activate on Steam. Methinks there's more going on here.