Contradictory Xbox 360 Failure Rate Information Emerges

[Doogie2K]

Last month, Game Informer infamously reported that amongst its subscribers, more than half had experienced at least one Xbox 360 failure (http://games.slashdot.org/story/09/08/20/1527212/Xbox-360-Failure-Rate-Is-542?from=rss), an astonishing rate that sparked fanboy outcry and laughter across the Internet. While the 360 has never been a paragon of reliability, the number seemed too high to possibly be true. According to a new survey by warranty provider SquareTrade, that number may be closer to one quarter. The key facts:


23.7% of Xbox 360 owners reported a failure, compared to 10.0% of PlayStation 3 owners and 2.7% of Wii owners. The latter two numbers are reasonably close to those reported by Game Informer (11% and 7%).
When the Red Ring of Death is excluded, the 360 number drops to 11.7%, a number comparable to that of the PS3, though still more than four times that of the Wii.
SquareTrade notes that because of Microsoft's extended warranty, RROD incidents may be underreported by as much as half, based on their respondant pool, and that therefore, the total 360 failure rate may be closer to 35%.
The RROD problem has indeed abated as anecdotal evidence suggests, with first-year red-rings dropping from a peak of 10% in units sold in Q2 2008 to a projection of just over 2% for units sold in Q1 2009. Note that the Jasper model was released in Q4 of 2008.

The document also includes usage data, noting that the 360 is the most-used console among the three on the market, slightly ahead of the PS3, with more than double the monthly usage hours of the Wii. When analyzing the failures based on usage time, and excluding the RROD, the 360 and PS3 had effectively equal rates, though still about double that of the Wii.

No matter how you slice it, the Wii remains the most reliable of the three current-generation consoles, but with this new data, the 360's foibles are cast in a new, arguably more flattering, light. It's also worth pointing out, as David Ellis of 1UP did on the August 28 episode of Listen UP, that customers who exchanged their dead 360s at GameStop also received a subscription to Game Informer, suggesting that GI's survey was likely taken from a biased reference sample.

[Source: SquareTrade (http://www.squaretrade.com/pages/xbox360-ps3-wii-reliability-08-2009/) via CNN (http://scitech.blogs.cnn.com/2009/09/04/wii-trumps-xbox-360-ps3-in-repair-rate-survey/)]

[Mike Kelehan]

"No, no, its not so bad! Only a quarter of our $300 machines fail!"

[violent]

Much lower than initially reported, much higher than is acceptable. The fact that they are still reporting on failure rates so many years after initial launch only reinforces that fact.

[maharahaj]

23.7%? Yeah right. Between myself and my friends who own the system (around 8 of us), we together are sitting at a 100% failure rate. Several of my buddies have had multiple failures.

There is no way to sugar coat it. To Microsoft's credit with them fixing the units though, none of us have sworn off the system or said that we wouldn't purchase the next one Microsoft puts out.

[nnanji]

I wonder where David Ellis got that information? When I worked for Gamestop I handled many XBOX return and exchanges. Not once did we ever give away GI subs as part of the deal. And believe me, we would have if we could have, because are performance was based in part on how many of those subs we sold.

[Widgetcraft]

I'm sure the experiences of myself and everyone I know are simply an anomaly.

[Wolvie]

23.7%? Yeah right. Between myself and my friends who own the system (around 8 of us), we together are sitting at a 100% failure rate. Several of my buddies have had multiple failures.

There is no way to sugar coat it. To Microsoft's credit with them fixing the units though, none of us have sworn off the system or said that we wouldn't purchase the next one Microsoft puts out.

I'm on my third 360, but that's due to me upgrading to the red limited edition RE5 elite. My first one died and my second one got traded in for the previously mentioned elite.

I guess 33% of my 360's died?

My brother-in-law has had worse luck. He had his original 360 die, and had it repaired. Then his second elite that he bought while waiting for his original was out being fixed died as well.

My lead at work is on his third 360. And another co-worker is on his fourth 360.

All of us aren't close to swearing the system off because of MS' repair policy. If it wasn't for that, MS would be in deep shit with the law and gamers at large. Be that as it may, I always get a bit nervous when turning my 360... it's just something that should not be a part of my gaming life.

[Urizen]

I stopped reading where they said 2.3% is "reasonably cose to" 7%. I can't trust the 23.7%as a result.

This thing is 49% bullshit and 51% horseshit. You know, give or take.

[BLeeP]

I am personally on my third 360, and that right there makes me question them when they say "23.7 Xbox 360 owners report failures". They aren't looking at the percentage that broke, they are looking at the percentage of people who had them break. I think the prior number would be much higher.

[Farsight]

I spent about $3000 this year replacing various electronics devices that failed on me waaay to soon (yet just barely out of warranty). In total, I lost a subwoofer, a TV, a 360 and a DVD-writer.

$0 of that went to MS.

So MS doesn't even make my "Targets of Ire" list. Samsung and Infinity do, though!

[Doogie2K]

I wonder where David Ellis got that information? When I worked for Gamestop I handled many XBOX return and exchanges. Not once did we ever give away GI subs as part of the deal. And believe me, we would have if we could have, because are performance was based in part on how many of those subs we sold.

I believe he also worked for GameStop prior to working for 1UP.

I stopped reading where they said 2.3% is "reasonably cose to" 7%. I can't trust the 23.7%as a result.

This thing is 49% bullshit and 51% horseshit. You know, give or take.

That was me editorializing. Yeah, 2.7% is one third of 7%, so maybe that comment should be altered slightly. In both cases, it's still far and away the lowest. The point was, the main discrepancy with the GI numbers and this warranty agency's numbers was in the 360 number.

I'm also much more inclined to believe the reporting of a warranty provider, who also take the time to account for possible confounding effects on the data (e.g. RROD underreporting), as opposed to a game magazine, that didn't.

[Food Nipple]

Second, Microsoft’s policy may result in an underreporting of failures by Xbox 360 owners to SquareTrade, relative to the other two consoles. Because the RROD problem is so widely known to be covered by Microsoft’s warranty, we believe that more customers bypass SquareTrade and reported failures directly to the Microsoft. In a survey of SquareTrade customers with Xbox 360s conducted by email, SquareTrade found that over half of our customers who experienced a RROD error reported their problem directly to Microsoft without contacting SquareTrade.

The 23 percent is only people who contacted SquareTrade instead of Microsoft. They admit it's impossible to guess how many people are in that group, you can make the same extrapolations since respondents to an email survey aren't a random sampling.

[rein]

It doesn't really matter much which "survey" revealed what numbers since both results are way too high for a failure rate. All I can do is base my opinions on things I know to be true and that is definitely more than 35% of the people I know that own the system have replaced them. Most multiple time.

[muddi900]

I am on my 6th Xbox 360, currently dead and out of warranty. In over 3 years I've owned it, I've actually used it for maybe 6 months. I will not by another MS console unless its around a 100 bucks.

[pseudopseudo]

If the next Xbox is as faulty as this one... I'll still buy it. Given, any failure rate that high is horrible, but the two times I've had mine RROD, I've had my box back within a week of sending it out. Many are of the opinion, "I shouldn't be having to send it out in the first place", but I'm of the opinion, "They paid for me to get my shit fixed, and they did it QUICK." Therefore, I don't see Microsoft as doing wrong by me. YMMV, obviously.

Honestly, it gave me some time to play my other two neglected consoles. Hahaha.

[Chris_D]

My 6 day turn around from the initial phone call with door pick up and drop off left me with no complaints from my one 360 failure.

[Gorvi]

Believe whichever survey you like, neither is probably an accurate representation of what the failure rate really is. The only real answer is "far too high".

[Farsight]

I am on my 6th Xbox 360, currently dead and out of warranty. In over 3 years I've owned it, I've actually used it for maybe 6 months.

36 months - 6 = 30 months of downtime
30 months / 6 failures = 5 months of downtime per failure...

=

It's Microsoft's fault that you're too lazy to send it in?

[DangerousDaze]

I can't believe people are still trying to defend or justify Microsoft's 360 failure rate.

[Chris_D]

I can't believe people are still trying to defend or justify Microsoft's 360 failure rate.

I dunno, some people are way too desperate to have everyone else feel the same righteous outrage as them. Face it, not all of us have had terrible experiences. In fact, some of us have had quite excellent experiences.

[Badger]

I dunno, some people are way too desperate to have everyone else feel the same righteous outrage as them. Face it, not all of us have had terrible experiences. In fact, some of us have had quite excellent experiences.

I don't think I've mentioned it anywhere before, but I've had one failure since the original Gears was released. The console was picked up the morning after it failed, probably about 12 hours after I sent the email. It took 2 weeks almost exactly from me sticking the printed label onto the box and receiving it back from Frankfurt, Germany (a 1000 mile round trip over several countries). This happened to be on Christmas / New Years. For FREE.

Now I don't know a single Xbox 360 owner that has yet to encounter the RROD, but with service like that what does it matter anymore?

[jeffbax]

Hahaha, 25% my ass. I don't believe that for a second, and I don't know anyone who hasn't replaced their 360 at least once. The early models are 100% as far as I'm concerned - it's not a matter of if just when. Nice to see they got the August 08 models fixed though.

[Stmfuller]

So, this is just the ones that are "broken but not covered under MS's warranty policy"? If so, that's probably a pretty good number. But RRoDs are damn near 100% failure.
I went through one (sold it after MS fucked up for two solid weeks), my buddy at work as gone through 4, and everyone else I know has had it at least once.
I guess I'm still confused here. Why are we defending a KNOWN faulty system? It just boggles my mind that people would defend a $300 item that is going to break early and often.
and people laugh at me when I say I'm a Lions fan...360 owners have far worse battered wife syndrome than I.

[Chris_D]

I've been happy with my 360. No battered wife syndrome here.

[roboninja]

I've been happy with my 360. No battered wife syndrome here.

You do realize your hubby has been out there beating thousands of other women though, right?

[Stmfuller]

I've been happy with my 360. No battered wife syndrome here.If I may be so bold, how many RRoDs have you had?

[Kelegacy]

It's like cancer--we all know someone personally who has had it. But in this case, I think it's worse. Everyone I know in real life has had their machine die. It's anecdotal, but I think every 360 gamer has this sort of "anecdotal evidence".

[Doogie2K]

So, this is just the ones that are "broken but not covered under MS's warranty policy"? If so, that's probably a pretty good number. But RRoDs are damn near 100% failure.

The 11.7% represents non-RROD failures, and is comparable to the PS3 rate, particularly after accounting for discrepancies in usage. The 23.7% or 35% represent reported and estimated numbers including both RROD and non-RROD. 35%, based on the early system failure rate in particular, seems much more reasonable to me than 54.2%, over the lifetime of the machine to date.

It's still absurdly high, and MS needs to alter its design philosophy for the next machine, but I felt it was worth reporting that the GI numbers were indeed a bit out of whack, and that the Jasper models were actually addressing the problem insofar as can likely be done without a total hardware revision.

[rein]

The 11.7% represents non-RROD failures, and is comparable to the PS3 rate, particularly after accounting for discrepancies in usage. The 23.7% or 35% represent reported and estimated numbers including both RROD and non-RROD. 35%, based on the early system failure rate in particular, seems much more reasonable to me than 54.2%, over the lifetime of the machine to date.

It's still absurdly high, and MS needs to alter its design philosophy for the next machine, but I felt it was worth reporting that the GI numbers were indeed a bit out of whack, and that the Jasper models were actually addressing the problem insofar as can likely be done without a total hardware revision.
I'm not sure why they bother separating out the RROD numbers since that is the main cause of the systems failure. That is, if the story is about defective numbers. They also have no idea (just like GI) about the numbers reported to MS due to the RROD. I'm also not too sure about the claim that the Jasper units are all that reliable since I know a couple of people with Elites that have died. I'm not saying the failure rate is higher than 35% or lower than 54%. I'm just saying all that any of us know for certain is that it is too damned high!

[Ultima Thulian]

Thank gawd the 360 has kickass software and a good online system going for it, cause in terms of pure hardware it is absolute shit. Ugly as sin and a high failure rate to boot.

[fitbabits]

I am still on my launch 360, but it has failed on me over 20 times. Now it refuses to play games such as Dead Space among others. I think it's on its last legs (again).

[Doogie2K]

I'm not sure why they bother separating out the RROD numbers since that is the main cause of the systems failure. That is, if the story is about defective numbers. They also have no idea (just like GI) about the numbers reported to MS due to the RROD. I'm also not too sure about the claim that the Jasper units are all that reliable since I know a couple of people with Elites that have died. I'm not saying the failure rate is higher than 35% or lower than 54%. I'm just saying all that any of us know for certain is that it is too damned high!

I think they separate out the RROD specifically because it confounds the numbers. It's a unique problem to the 360, and because of MS's warranty, the reporting of the numbers can be all over the map, from 24% to 54%. If anything, I think doing so actually serves to highlight just how much of an issue the RROD/E74 is (not that the entire consumer electronics world didn't already know), because without it, the 360 would be about as reliable as the PS3. Hell, if you look at their breakdown of the causes of system failures, the RROD sticks up like a giant 360-exclusive middle finger right in the centre of the graph. :)

[J Arcane]

I dunno, some people are way too desperate to have everyone else feel the same righteous outrage as them. Face it, not all of us have had terrible experiences. In fact, some of us have had quite excellent experiences.
In a capitalist system, the only vote one has against shitty tactics is with one's wallet, and I think some people get distressed when they see people subvert this principle by nevertheless forking over more and more dough to companies that have engaged in poor behavior.

I grew up with an NES that was thankfully not my own money, and when I got burned again by the PS1 on my own dime, I resolved not to encourage companies that would sell me faulty hardware of that magnitude, and so I haven't. I'm always at least a bit surprised by people who would.

[Chris_D]

If I may be so bold, how many RRoDs have you had?

One non RROD with a 6 day turn around.

[Chris_D]

You do realize your hubby has been out there beating thousands of other women though, right?

Hey baby, I look out for number one.

Out of my 360 owning friends in RL, me and one other have had problems. 2 have had no problems. Still, the friend who had problems owns a 360 for each region so 1 out of 3 isn't too bad for him I guess. Also he lives in Japan too so I think he also had a turn around of about a week.

[Chris_D]

In a capitalist system, the only vote one has against shitty tactics is with one's wallet, and I think some people get distressed when they see people subvert this principle by nevertheless forking over more and more dough to companies that have engaged in poor behavior.

I grew up with an NES that was thankfully not my own money, and when I got burned again by the PS1 on my own dime, I resolved not to encourage companies that would sell me faulty hardware of that magnitude, and so I haven't. I'm always at least a bit surprised by people who would.

Of course I feel sorry for those that have bad experiences, both here on COG and in RL. But I'm not going to pass over the best console of the generation because of it. Same was true of the NES, PS1, and PS2.

[J Arcane]

Of course I feel sorry for those that have bad experiences, both here on COG and in RL. But I'm not going to pass over the best console of the generation because of it. Same was true of the NES, PS1, and PS2.
Eh. "Best" is all in the eye of the beholder. I was as much a fan of the competition in the first two generations you example there, and I managed to survive without a PS2 quite nicely, and I'm personally quite happy with my PS3 and have seen only a handful of games on the Xbox that would make me consider reneging on my policy.

And especially in this era of so many multi-platform releases, I'd say it's damn hard indeed to pin down a "best" based solely on games.

[Wolvie]

Let's see I rate the systems I've played:

Atari Vs. Collecovision= Atari Wins

NES vs. TurboGraphix 16= NES wins by default(never played the master system)

SNES Vs. Genesis= Tie

N64 Vs. PS1= tie

Dreamcast Vs. PS2 Vs. Xbox Vs. Gamecube= PS2 and Xbox Tie for first, Dreamcast second, Gamecube third

360 Vs. Wii Vs. PS3= 360 Wins with the Wii coming in second and the PS3 third.

Those are all of course my personal opinion of course. YMMV.

Edit: Sorry about the thread derail, I just needed to get that out there for whatever reason.

[Farsight]

I can't believe people are still trying to defend or justify Microsoft's 360 failure rate.

Who's defending it? It's been a disaster for MS. It just hasn't been a disaster for ME. It's odd how personally some people take needing to have their console repaired for free, like it's a disaster of epic proportions.

It's like cancer--we all know someone personally who has had it. But in this case, I think it's worse.

Case in point.

I'd say it's more like the flu. Nearly everyone gets it, it sucks while you have it, then most of us forget all about it once it's over. Except some people can't get over it and instead forsake their God for making them sick.

I am still on my launch 360, but it has failed on me over 20 times.

Now here's a case where someone has every right to be irritated. Anyone who's bitching and is under a free repair per year is just a fucking baby.

I resolved not to encourage companies that would sell me faulty hardware of that magnitude, and so I haven't. I'm always at least a bit surprised by people who would.

I resolved to have fun playing games, and save my righteous indignation for situations that warrant it.

[Gorvi]

Who's defending it? It's been a disaster for MS. It just hasn't been a disaster for ME. It's odd how personally some people take needing to have their console repaired for free, like it's a disaster of epic proportions.
It's the same as how some people blow comments from execs out of proportion for other companies, although this actually does have a direct customer impact.

All I've got to say is that I know I'd be pissed as all hell if I were playing through FFXIII next year and was about 75% through it then got an RRoD. Of course that won't happen, I won't have the 360 version, but the possibility of that happening is out there for some.

[J Arcane]

Now here's a case where someone has every right to be irritated. Anyone who's bitching and is under a free repair per year is just a fucking baby.

Uh huh. So is there ever a point where the failure of a piece of consumer hardware is unacceptable and doesn't constitute "being a fucking baby" to be unhappy about it? Where one is allowed to weigh the cost/benefit/risk analysis of a thing and decide against it? Or are we all just fucking babies for doing things people do every day?

I mean, I've only ever had one console break down in any capacity (the PS1), and even that one kept working you just had to fiddle with it a lot to get it to. From my point of view, any failure's unacceptable, especially for a console significantly more expensive than others that haven't failed.

I resolved to have fun playing games, and save my righteous indignation for situations that warrant it.

I have plenty of fun playing games. Just yesterday we got Batman: AA and Champions Online. I'm having a lot of fun with both, how about you?

And I wouldn't call something that's a pretty common consumer decision "righteous indignation", it's just something people do every day. I won't eat at certain restaurants and chains, because I know their quality is poor and don't see the point in giving money for poor quality food. There's certain cars I'd never buy because I know they too break down a lot, and so wouldn't want to deal with the headache even if it came with a BMW-quality warranty.

Most people who aren't filthy rich have a limited amount of economic resources to levy, and so they have to decide what products to buy based on what they believe will give them the best value for their money, and that can be measured on a number of levels, but it's highly unlikely to involve "righteous indignation" in any case.

[Chris_D]

Eh. "Best" is all in the eye of the beholder.

Exactly, and I'm going to pick the system that's best for me and the games I want to play.

Uh huh. So is there ever a point where the failure of a piece of consumer hardware is unacceptable and doesn't constitute "being a fucking baby" to be unhappy about it? Where one is allowed to weigh the cost/benefit/risk analysis of a thing and decide against it? Or are we all just fucking babies for doing things people do every day?

I mean, I've only ever had one console break down in any capacity (the PS1),

It's fine to be unhappy about your poor experience, just don't berate others for enjoying their systems. Also, if you've never had a 360 break down on you then I don't see why you have such a beef with the system.

[Farsight]

Uh huh. So is there ever a point where the failure of a piece of consumer hardware is unacceptable and doesn't constitute "being a fucking baby" to be unhappy about it?

How about:

1) When you have to pay the repair bill
or
2) When they repeatedly can't fix it

In other cases, it seems like a waste of energy. Hell, the 360 is the only console you can buy and KNOW you'll have a working console in 3 years. If the failure of an electronics device causes you that much consternation, that should be a huge selling point for you! :)

[rein]

In other cases, it seems like a waste of energy. Hell, the 360 is the only console you can buy and KNOW you'll have a working console in 3 years. If the failure of an electronics device causes you that much consternation, that should be a huge selling point for you! :)
That's an interesting way to look at it and a good point.

Now here's a case where someone has every right to be irritated. Anyone who's bitching and is under a free repair per year is just a fucking baby.That's BS. If I purchase any item and it breaks I have every right as a consumer to bitch about it regardless if it is repaired or not. It's a shoddy product plain and simple. Since I don't do PR work for Microsoft I'm going to side with consumers on this one. After all, WE SPENT OUR MONEY ON THE PRODUCT!!! We showed MS support by buying their product in the first place. I have no reason to continue to sing their praises where it is not warranted and product reliability is not a place it is warranted.

[DangerousDaze]

Who's defending it?
Look at the thread title. The defence this time around appears to be analogous to "Sony laptop batteries are as reliable as anyone else's, provided you ignore all the explody ones." ;)

[RandoM51]

Things break, get over it. Today's 360 is a lot more reliable than the those produced in the first 2-3 years.

If you're one of the few people left who want to play 360 games but haven't purchased a 360, buy a new one and buy it with confidence that RRoD isn't the monster it used to be. Microsoft has a good warranty and pretty good service, so you're covered either way.

[Wolvie]

Things break, get over it. Today's 360 is a lot more reliable than the those produced in the first 2-3 years.

If you're one of the few people left who want to play 360 games but haven't purchased a 360, buy a new one and buy it with confidence that RRoD isn't the monster it used to be. Microsoft has a good warranty and pretty good service, so you're covered either way.

Just the fact that you are saying this adds tons of credence to those words.

[Doogie2K]

Look at the thread title. The defence this time around appears to be analogous to "Sony laptop batteries are as reliable as anyone else's, provided you ignore all the explody ones." ;)

I don't think I'm encouraging anyone to ignore the RROD. I think my point was, "GI's numbers are fucked."

[Widgetcraft]

Today's 360 is a lot more reliable than the those produced in the first 2-3 years.

I love these statements. "These brand new ones are more reliable because they haven't broken yet." Lets see how they do over a three year period, how about that? People have been saying this shit since the month after the 360 came out, "Oh, they fixed the problems with the earlier ones, they're good now!"

As for the free repairs: They address one of the many issues that can kill a 360 (the other primary issue being the shitty, disc-eating DVD drives they were slapping into the POS for a good year or two). For a few years, anyway. Now the warranties are running out. I know that the 360 I have now is the last 360 I'll ever own (it is my third), because I'm sure as hell not going to buy a replacement or pay for this one to get repaired when it inevitably breaks.

The 360 is a piece of shit. If you can afford to buy new ones, constantly (like those stupid fucks around here who buy a new Elite to play while their broken Elite is out for repairs), good for you. Personally, I see $300-$400 as more than just an impulse purchase. That is why they don't stock 360s by the checkout line.

[Zanzibar]

The 360 is a piece of shit. If you can afford to buy new ones, constantly (like those stupid fucks around here who buy a new Elite to play while their broken Elite is out for repairs), good for you. Personally, I see $300-$400 as more than just an impulse purchase. That is why they don't stock 360s by the checkout line.

The real question is why the fuck they're buying an Elite when the Arcade is only $199 and you keep your HDD when you send in yours for repairs.

Actually, it's becoming a valid point - I paid $99 for my out-of-warranty repair that gives me a measly 1-year warranty extension. Maybe I should have bought an Arcade and gotten basically a 3-year extension, with HDMI and a bonus controller.

[Widgetcraft]

The real question is why the fuck they're buying an Elite when the Arcade is only $199 and you keep your HDD when you send in yours for repairs.

Because the Elites are more reliable, dontchaknow.

[Farsight]

Heretic Machine]I know that the 360 I have now is the last 360 I'll ever own (it is my third), because I'm sure as hell not going to buy a replacement or pay for this one to get repaired when it inevitably breaks.

Understandable. I bought 2 PS2s, and I'd have just sold or given away my PS2 games if #2 had died. Of course, Sony's warranty lasted until about 5 minutes after you left the store, so I got a lot less for my money than most 360 owners.

The real question is why the fuck they're buying an Elite when the Arcade is only $199 and you keep your HDD when you send in yours for repairs.

Bingo!

That's what I ended up doing. For $200, I got to keep playing games while I was off work for 2 weeks (bad timing!), a buddy got a free HD-less Elite (the main reason I did it), and I got a fresh warranty and a new Jasper.

[RandoM51]

I love these statements. "These brand new ones are more reliable because they haven't broken yet." Lets see how they do over a three year period, how about that? People have been saying this shit since the month after the 360 came out, "Oh, they fixed the problems with the earlier ones, they're good now!"

I don't know who "People" are.

The heatsink mounting that was causing chip pop when under high temps has been FIXED. I don't give a shit whether or not you believe that. I've seen the internals, it is fixed.

The newer units generate less heat due to die shrink(s), on top of that. Compare the power supplies of an older 360 to a newer one, the newer one will be rated for less power. Don't believe me? Check it for yourself.

You can't wait three years. Why? Because three years from now the 360 you would buy will *not* be the same 360 you could buy today. If you're going to play that game just don't buy any consumer electronics gear. Nothing that actually sells in any real numbers will stay exactly the same over three years. Even if the main manufacturer wanted to keep it exactly the same they wouldn't be able to because any number of the various components they source would change within three years.

Long story short, the 360 is much more reliable, but will never be reliable enough to make you happy, IMHO. As soon as they put optical drives into consoles they stopped being that reliable.

[DangerousDaze]

Long story short, the 360 is much more reliable...
I don't dispute that. What I dispute is the message of this thread which is that they weren't really that unreliable in the first place.

[Narradisall]

These threads just make me laugh nowdays.

[tacitus]

I wish they had named the thread "More console repair statistics" - but I guess that would not have been troll baity enough.

The thing that I find most interesting about this thread is the consistent 10% PS/3 problem is being ignored. Of course the gameinformer one was total statistical BS. But, I think 10% is pretty bad (also goes for the non-rrod xbox-360). If I am paying more than $200 for something, I do expect it to last more than a couple of years.

[fitbabits]

Thread title changed to better reflect the contents of the information cited.

[Doogie2K]

I don't dispute that. What I dispute is the message of this thread which is that they weren't really that unreliable in the first place.

Where did I say that?

[DangerousDaze]

Where did I say that?

Fits fixed it for you. ;)

[RandoM51]

I don't dispute that. What I dispute is the message of this thread which is that they weren't really that unreliable in the first place.

Why let it bother you? You know and I know that the failure rate for the original 360s---when used regularly---approaches 100% within a three year period.

The only people they're fooling are people who want to be fooled, obviously.

Other than trying to discuss how RRoD coupled with the lack of timely pricecuts pissed away Microsoft's best chance to dominate this generation after their 6-month head start, I just don't see much point fighting about a number that none of us will ever have a real answer for.

[pseudopseudo]

Other than trying to discuss how RRoD coupled with the lack of timely pricecuts pissed away Microsoft's best chance to dominate this generation after their 6-month head start...

You say that as if it hasn't dominated. It has.

It's not the best selling, but it's hard to argue that it's not the most dominant among those calling themselves "gamers".

[Ultima Thulian]

The idea is to make money. It's hard to do that when you're forced to constantly repair and try to make up for customers lost because of your shittily made hardware.

[RandoM51]

You say that as if it hasn't dominated. It has.

It's not the best selling, but it's hard to argue that it's not the most dominant among those calling themselves "gamers".

It hasn't dominated any demographic as far as I can tell. As far as "most dominant", I'd yield that up to the Wii, easily. There are millions upon millions of people out there who don't define gamer the same way you do, then again they don't have the ulterior motive of trying to remove the Wii from the picture.

Gee, that wasn't hard at all.

[Doogie2K]

Fits fixed it for you. ;)

Fixed what? "Xbox 360 Failure Rates Much Lower Than Initially Reported?" Would you dispute that 35 is much lower than 54? On what planet does that mean, "Xbox 360 Not That Unreliable, No Sir?" Sure, it was a poorly-worded title, and I should have fixed it myself before submitting. Did it say what you interpreted it to say? Not at all.

[Widgetcraft]

Fixed what? "Xbox 360 Failure Rates Much Lower Than Initially Reported?"

You're assuming that your information is accurate. I don't see any reason to think that it is.

[Doogie2K]

You're assuming that your information is accurate. I don't see any reason to think that it is.

It's from a warranty company. I'm a little more inclined to believe them as a source of data on console failures than a game magazine's readership, especially when they come right out and make a point of showing where their data is confounded and trying to account for it.

[CptTripps]

These threads will never stop, four pages of smack talk once again.

I have two and one of them died/was fixed in about 12 days. The hardware is bad (maybe better now) but the process and online gaming has made it worthwhile in the long run for me.