Do Conservatives realize how moronic they sound?

[GunnyMo]

The level of just outright stupidity being displayed by so called "conservatives" in this country just jumped the shark yet again. (http://content.usatoday.net/dist/custom/gci/InsidePage.aspx?cId=cincinnati&sParam=31521865.story)

Some conservatives, driven by radio pundits and bloggers, are urging schools and parents to boycott the address. They say Obama is using the opportunity to promote a political agenda and is overstepping the boundaries of federal involvement in schools.

"As far as I am concerned, this is not civics education -- it gives the appearance of creating a cult of personality," said Oklahoma Republican state Sen. Steve Russell. "This is something you'd expect to see in North Korea or in Saddam Hussein's Iraq."

Really? I mean...really? Obama addressing school kids about education is the equivalent of gassing Kurds or starving your entire population? Really?

Let's see, now where was G.W. Bush when 9/11 happened? Oh that's right: in a school reading to kids! He obviously must have been pushing his conservative agenda and "overstepping the boundaries of federal involvement in schools". Of course!

Do these pea brained people realize how moronic they sound? What I'd really like to see is these folks just admit to their blatant racism and be done with it instead of trying to cloak it as some kind of moral outrage for the children.

A black man is president. Get over it.

[roboninja]

It really does seem like there is an undercurrent of racism to this. The hypocrisy of these people is astounding.

[Slack3r78]

GOP needs to finish imploding so the sane conservatives can bring reasonable discourse back to this country.

[Wraith]

So... you're saying we wouldn't be hearing the exact same stuff from the exact same people if the country elected an equally popular white Democrat President? Really?


And while this sounds different than Bush reading to a class of kids, in that it's a national address intended to be shown to schools nationwide, it certainly does seem like an overreaction to assume that Obama's using it to push an agenda. To claim that it's some sort of dictatorial propaganda."I think it's really unfortunate that politics has been brought into this," White House deputy policy director Heather Higginbottom said in an interview with The Associated Press.

"It's simply a plea to students to really take their learning seriously. Find out what they're good at. Set goals. And take the school year seriously."And it's optional.

[Slack3r78]

Learning is socialist.

[GunnyMo]

GOP needs to finish imploding so the sane conservatives can bring reasonable discourse back to this country.

I couldn't have said it better. :D

[Ink Asylum]

And while this sounds different than Bush reading to a class of kids, in that it's a national address intended to be shown to schools nationwide, it certainly does seem like an overreaction to assume that Obama's using it to push an agenda. To claim that it's some sort of dictatorial propaganda.And it's optional.

Don't compare it to Bush II, then. Both Reagan and George Bush Sr. gave national addresses to schoolkids, and both of them had explicit political content in their speeches. Obama will be telling the kids to work hard and stay in school.

[Telefrog]

Obama will be telling the kids to work hard and stay in school.

Socialism! You keep your government out of my public schools!

[Shieldmaiden]

The president is going to give an address to schools and he might talk about politics? OMGWTFBBQ!!!! What is the world coming to?

[boratika]

The president is going to give an address to schools and he might talk about politics? OMGWTFBBQ!!!! What is the world coming to?

Keep the damn president out of politics! He might have political agendas...and stuff...:mad:

[National Kato]

President George H.W. Bush gave a similar address to school children when he was in office. No matter what Obama does the racists, idiots, and other fringe conservatives will make it sound like the end of the world is coming.

[Crowe]

Fuck, talk about some loony motherfuckers.

Don't really see stuff like that being said here is Aus (I don't pay much attention), not that anyone would really give a shit.

[GunnyMo]

Fuck, talk about some loony motherfuckers.

Don't really see stuff like that being said here is Aus (I don't pay much attention), not that anyone would really give a shit.

Duh. Y'all are too busy fighting off Clock Spiders, crocs bigger than buses and man eating koalas! :p

[OUX]

You are forgetting the 1/2 a trillion dollars that is in Obama's budget to form a militia that is as strong as the military and report only to the president. The indoctrination has to begin early! :rolleyes:

[National Kato]

Also, don't forget Glenn Beck's discovery of the direct link (http://www.colonyofgamers.com/cogforums/showpost.php?p=356015&postcount=28) between John D. Rockefeller, Diego Rivera, NBC, and Van Jones, our new Green Jobs czar!

[Kelegacy]

They know how they sound. They are pandering to their base, who are ignorant and lack rational thought. They are like puppet masters. They HAVE to know how stupid their arguments are.

I read a news story this past week that linked some conservative thought processes (unable to feel uncomfortable even while holding onto two conflicting arguments) as a psychological issue. I found the article incredibly funny, but also unsurprising.

[GunnyMo]

They HAVE to know how stupid their arguments are.

I read a news story this past week that linked some conservative thought processes (unable to feel uncomfortable even while holding onto two conflicting arguments) as a psychological issue. I found the article incredibly funny, but also unsurprising.

Perhaps some of the politicians do but folks like Beck, O'Reilly, Limbaugh, Coulter and Malkin? Very doubtful.

And if you can link that news article I'd love to read it. :)

[Vigil80]

racists, idiots, and other fringe conservatives
I was going to continue on my merry way, but I have to add something here. I understand that these folks wouldn't be saying these things if they were liberals. But I'm beginning to resent the level of "har har, silly conservatives." Racist? Maybe, though that hasn't been explicitly noted. Ignorant? Probably. But those things do not necessarily equal conservative. ;)

I don't think folks would be as quick to announce here, those damn liberals, bitchy feminists, silly (sexual persuasion), backward (religion followers), etcetera.

As a conservative - right-leaning libertarian, to be exact - I don't think ill of President Obama's speech. I have always been underwhelmed by him, in a word. But this event doesn't smack of conspiracy. Just typical outreach to future voters, and desperation on the part of those polarized against him, something that isn't unique to his presidency.

[GunnyMo]

I was going to continue on my merry way, but I have to add something here. I understand that these folks wouldn't be saying these things if they were liberals. But I'm beginning to resent the level of "har har, silly conservatives." Racist? Maybe, though that hasn't been explicitly noted. Ignorant? Probably. But those things do not necessarily equal conservative. ;)



I know what you are saying and totally agree with you. However, all of that talk is coming exclusively from people claiming to be conservative. I know not all conservatives are like that. In fact, I know it's mainly the hard line right wingers.

Racist? C'mon. Most of the "conservatives" complaining are from white, primarily southern, or southern leaning, areas of the country. Plus, I don't think I've ever seen this level of hatred and suggested violence towards a sitting president in my lifetime. Sure, most Americans didn't like GW Bush I do not remember armed gunman coming to town hall meetings with signs about "watering the tree of liberty". That oft played video of a white woman at a meeting all upset about how this "wasn't her America and she wanted it back"? You cannot tell me that was about concern over healthcare. There is a heavy undertone of racism to this hard liner conservative movement. Of course it won't be explicit racism because no matter how many people they think they have on their side as soon as they cross that line they are done.

[Vigil80]

I appreciate the sentiment. :)
Racist? C'mon. Most of the "conservatives" complaining are from white, primarily southern, or southern leaning, areas of the country.
I'm not trying to be annoying, but you're doing it again. Yes, a stereotype becomes a stereotype by being correct at one time or other, but does that make it something to cling to? What if I said the people fighting hardest for nationalized healthcare were minorities who just wanted more welfare? Does it matter whether or not I'm correct?

I'm not trying to defend anyone. I guess all I'm really saying is that I'm a white male conservative living in the south who doesn't mind that Obama's making a speech.

I'm also not denying that Obama is regarded in some circles with a heaping helping of racism. But blanket statements aren't any more flattering from one side of the fence, so to speak, as from the other.

[GunnyMo]

I appreciate the sentiment. :)

I'm not trying to be annoying, but you're doing it again. Yes, a stereotype becomes a stereotype by being correct at one time or other, but does that make it something to cling to?

lol I'm not clinging to anything! I completely agree with you but it doesn't change the fact that the majority of those doing the most belly aching about Obama are white southerners. ;)

I know not all southerners are racists nor am I suggesting they are.

[Vigil80]

Well, I reckon that'll have to do. :p

[GunnyMo]

Well, I reckon that'll have to do. :p

Shucks. It's alright, y'all. Now let's mosey on down this road a fer piece and sit a spell. :D

[Slack3r78]

http://imgur.com/B6zmE.png

[Telefrog]

The President is a Kenyan! Foreigners aren't allowed on public school property! That's the law!

[Kelegacy]

Perhaps some of the politicians do but folks like Beck, O'Reilly, Limbaugh, Coulter and Malkin? Very doubtful.

And if you can link that news article I'd love to read it. :)

I don't know, I think they know that their arguments and comments are outrageous and sometimes even untrue. They are almost all employed just to be sensationalists. Reality doesn't create paychecks, but blurring fact and fiction, with a heavy dose of flair...that brings in the ratings. Who are the people watching their shows? I feel sad for their ignorance.

I can't remember the news site, it was one I had never heard of before my friend sent me the article, but since it's on my work email I'll try to log in tomorrow and post it. It was a good article, though.

[Doogie2K]

It's a totally valid concern. I mean, the kids might catch muslim from him or something.

Ha! Awesome.

[Slack3r78]

Ha! Awesome.

heh, that was me, not my friend. :p

[Serapth]

I am waiting for the day one of these nutjobs takes a shot at him ( literally ). Its only a matter of time if they keep frothing up the wackos like they have been. Eventually, one of these deluded fucks is going to believe they are "doing it for America".


Then, you will see America tear itself apart.

That said, splitting America in two probably isn't a terrible idea, as I don't think the two sides are compatible frankly. Either that, or a good civil war will effectively cull the population.

[Doogie2K]

heh, that was me, not my friend. :p

Non-ninja edit to fix.

[National Kato]

I'm sure you've all heard about the backlash against President Obama's school address? (http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/09/04/obama.schools/index.html)

"Thinking about my kids in school having to listen to that just really upsets me," suburban Colorado mother Shanneen Barron told CNN Denver affiliate KMGH. "I'm an American. They are Americans, and I don't feel that's OK. I feel very scared to be in this country with our leadership right now."What the hell does that even mean? I can only assume she's referring to Barack Obama not being a true American? And she's scared? Really?

It's a shame this fringe gets all the airtime.

[Shrinn]

My entry into political news is very recent.

Has there always been this kind of fucking ridiculous shit going on? Did Democrats protest when Reagan wanted to give a fucking speech?

What's next? "Conservatives outraged over Obama's proposed sleeping schedule. Should our President's alarm be set to 7:05? Socialist sleep schedules for all! One snooze too many! Nazi sleep cycles!".

Ugh.

[Stmfuller]

My entry into political news is very recent.

Has there always been this kind of fucking ridiculous shit going on? Did Democrats protest when Reagan wanted to give a fucking speech?

What's next? "Conservatives outraged over Obama's proposed sleeping schedule. Should our President's alarm be set to 7:05? Socialist sleep schedules for all! One snooze too many! Nazi sleep cycles!".

Ugh.no, it's just gotten worse over the last 10 years as the advent of 24 hour news cycles and the internet have allowed us all to know what's going on with everyone's lives every single second of every single day.


That, and there are a lot of racist motherfuckers out there.

[National Kato]

Has there always been this kind of fucking ridiculous shit going on? Did Democrats protest when Reagan wanted to give a fucking speech?

Yes, I believe they complained about politicizing children - granted, Reagan's speech to kids actually contained some adult politics.

In November 1988, President Ronald Reagan delivered more politically charged remarks that were made available to students nationwide. Among other things, Reagan called taxes "such a penalty on people that there's no incentive for them to prosper ... because they have to give so much to the government."

I don't remember them as histrionic as this, however, claiming Reagan was trying to indoctrinate or spread his terrible regime ideologies...or whatever. The conservatives behind these accusations know the power of words and are selectively using the ones that will elicit the most anger and fear.

[Kelegacy]

Conservatives are pissed that a black man is president. That's the only thing I can think of. Most of the people crying foul have no idea what the definition of socialism is. Ignorance--it's the most powerful tool of the right and they wield and weave it deftly.

I actually think they are a big thorn in the side of America and hurting this country. How the hell is the President giving a speech to school children a bad thing? He's the president for crying out loud.

They're mental.

[Vigil80]

Has there always been this kind of fucking ridiculous shit going on?
In short, yes.

It didn't get as much publicity, but there was a fringe who propagated the idea that 9/11 had been an elaborate plot by G. W. Bush's administration. And so it has been for roughly every president for the last two decades. Conservatives didn't invent the idea, and the heavy-handed conservative=racist bullshit continues to grate. That stance is no more correct or reasonable than the outcry against this speech.

[Ink Asylum]

It didn't get as much publicity, but there was a fringe who propagated the idea that 9/11 had been an elaborate plot by G. W. Bush's administration. And so it has been for roughly every president for the last two decades. Conservatives didn't invent the idea, and the heavy-handed conservative=racist bullshit continues to grate. That stance is no more correct or reasonable than the outcry against this speech.

The difference was that they were the FRINGE and they were dismissed by mainstream Democrats. The nonsense coming out of the right since Obama was elected is embraced by high profile conservatives in the media and in government.

[Ultima Thulian]

Politics is a game. This is game playing. Right now, Dems are in control of everything and the Reps won't have a decent shot to regain power until 2012, so in the mean time they must will grasp at whatever they can use to demoralize and weaken constituents' faith in the current status quo by whatever means necessary.

All politicians do this. It's very basic shit people. Racism has little to do with it.

[National Kato]

It didn't get as much publicity, but there was a fringe who propagated the idea that 9/11 had been an elaborate plot by G. W. Bush's administration. And so it has been for roughly every president for the last two decades. Conservatives didn't invent the idea, and the heavy-handed conservative=racist bullshit continues to grate. That stance is no more correct or reasonable than the outcry against this speech.

Prizefighter, as Ink has stated, there's a big difference between the fringe belief that didn't get much publicity about 9/11 being a conspiracy and this tone coming from conservatives over Obama.

Florida GOP Chairman Jim Greer released a statement this week accusing Obama of using taxpayer money to "indoctrinate" children.


"As the father of four children, I am absolutely appalled that taxpayer dollars are being used to spread President Obama's socialist ideology," Greer said.


That's a state party chairman. You have party leaders and elected officials making statements that Obama is a socialist, he's a Marxist, he's not a United States citizen, he's a Muslim...I mean, it's been neverending. This is nothing like some fringe idiots complaining about government conspiracies over 9/11 that everyone, both liberal and conservative, shrugged off as insanity. This is mainstream and it's being given publicity.

If you can't see the difference, you're too close to it.

[Vigil80]

My example - which was arguably poorly chosen - was not the focus of my post. If I took the time, and I may yet, I'm certain I could find high profile individuals making absurd comments from any side. It's just the nature of politics. I'll go out on a limb and say that anyone who doesn't think so hasn't been paying attention. I'm sure Pelosi alone would be a fount of material for that particular argument, especially during Republican administration. But, that is all beside the point.

I'm not attempting to apologize for these people, or rationalize their thought processes. I seem to be having trouble explaining. Read the following statement as many times as necessary. Once again, my point is this:

Excoriating them for being (proclaimed) conservatives is like attacking Middle Eastern terrorists not for being homicidal, but for being (proclaimed) muslims. It is insulting to muslims everywhere who are perfectly reasonable and intelligent individuals and who properly - if the word can be so applied - observe their beliefs.

As a side note, I don't know Greer's record, but it's also worth mentioning that Republican does not necessarily equal conservative anymore, at least in the strictest terms.

All politicians do this. It's very basic shit people. Racism has little to do with it.
This man is one of the few so far who shows signs of getting it.

[Serapth]

This man is one of the few so far who shows signs of getting it.

I HATE the way the left have been playing the racist card, and it's one serious fucking slippery slope.

That said, many of the raving fucking nutjobs... well, the shoe fits. A lot of these people hate the president because of what he is, nothing more.

[National Kato]

This man is one of the few so far who shows signs of getting it.

Oh, I get it. I just think you're being unrealistically offended by previous statements. Personally, I've been very clear in highlighting my belief that this is a fringe aspect of the conservative wing. If you feel I'm painting all conservatives with racism, idiocy, or fringe beliefs, you're too close to it.

My original comment, the one that stopped you in this thread, highlighted several groups I feel mainly responsible for a lot of this ridiculous noise: racists, idiots, and fringe conservatives. Three groups, sometimes separate and other times overlapping. I know feeling lumped in with them by name makes you irritated, but that's not any fault of mine. They're the ones speaking loudest; they have the ear of the media. Why aren't you conservatives seeking to rescue your image? Why aren't you speaking louder and pushing the fringe where they belong?

[Vigil80]

The difference was that they were the FRINGE and they were dismissed by mainstream Democrats.
I submit that it was only dismissed and did not receive more publicity because it was just too wild. If it could have been dialed back to a remotely believable level, of course it would have been leveraged.

Oh, I get it. I just think you're being unrealistically offended by previous statements. Personally, I've been very clear in highlighting my belief that this is a fringe aspect of the conservative wing. If you feel I'm painting all conservatives with racism, idiocy, or fringe beliefs, you're too close to it. My original comment, the one that stopped you in this thread, highlighted several groups I feel mainly responsible for a lot of this ridiculous noise: racists, idiots, and fringe conservatives.
To be exact, the quote is "racists, idiots, and other fringe conservatives," as though conservatives have the patents on those things. Emphasis mine, of course. I suspect a tiny bit of backpedaling taking place, but that is just another opinion.

And to clarify, it wasn't actually your comments which originally gave me pause.

Do Conservatives realize how moronic they sound?
They are pandering to their base, who are ignorant and lack rational thought.
...some conservative thought processes...as a psychological issue.
Conservatives are pissed that a black man is president.
Ignorance--it's the most powerful tool of the right.
I actually think they are a big thorn in the side of America and hurting this country.
To put it one way, I believe I'm feeling lumped in to insults because I'm being lumped in. But who wants to argue definitions?

Why aren't you conservatives seeking to rescue your image? Why aren't you speaking louder and pushing the fringe where they belong?
I would say that's what I've been doing here, more or less. I've made it clear that those views are not mine, and those folks are being silly. And I don't actually care about Obama making a speech, even if it was indisputably everything they accuse it of being. The ultimate impact will be negligible.
For a more complete answer, you'd have to ask other people who identify as conservative. I'm not going to run to Washington and found the Brother's Keepers of America. The P&R Arena is more than enough for me.

What I'm coming to terms with is that the phenomenon I was miffed about is merely the return volley in the game. The "no u!" of partisan cheerleading. In a way, maybe you're right about my being too close.

[Ink Asylum]

I submit that it was only dismissed and did not receive more publicity because it was just too wild. If it could have been dialed back to a remotely believable level, of course it would have been leveraged.

Really? More wild than elected officials and mainstream media personalities claiming Obama is trying to indoctrinate school kids with a speech? More wild than birthers, whose absurd claims about Obama's citizenship have been echoed by elected Representatives?

That's a poor argument. The extreme radicals on each side are going to lob very extreme rhetoric. We're talking far less than 1% of people, though. The nonsense from that percent of the left during Bush's years is probably as bad as what is coming from that same slim percent of the right, I'll grant you that never changes.

The rest of the left, though, never went as far down the rabbit hole as the right has in just these first months. That you would say the reason the mainstream left didn't spout that much nonsense last time was because the activist left was TOO wild is simply absurd and demands evidence. Not just the occasional ranting from a 9/11 truther, but slurs against Bush that were accepted by a majority of the activist left yet were somehow wilder than what is going through the mainstream right under Obama.

When MoveOn.org solicited videos to be submitted online to be entered into a contest for a commercial, one person submitted a Bush=Hitler video, which was, in record time, condemned and taken down by both MoveOn and the rest of the Democratic party. Glenn Beck and Rush Limbaugh call Obama Hitler on a daily basis and the Republican Party doesn't say a thing against them.

[fitbabits]

Holy crap:

Pastor wishes death on Obama (http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/us/2009/09/07/ktvk.az.rally.church.ktvk)

[Ink Asylum]

One of that pastor's followers brought a gun to an Obama event. He was never in sight of the President, but he was outside the building.

[Kelegacy]

I think Christ would be sickened...no, I KNOW he would...if he witnessed some people that call themselves Christians today. It's a perversion of Christian beliefs: you select what you want and conveniently forget the others.

There is a large segment of America that sickens me. However, how large is this segment really? All we see is from the media, which gives these people too much airtime. I think the media is to blame for so much of this bullshit. 24 hour news networks need SOMETHING to talk about, so they jump on anything and everything. It's sad.

These people are fucking mental. They need psychological help.

[Vigil80]

That you would say the reason the mainstream left didn't spout that much nonsense last time was because the activist left was TOO wild is simply absurd and demands evidence.
I was only referring to that specific story. There's plenty others to choose from.
The danger is not abstract or merely symbolic. Bush's abuses of presidential power are the most extensive in American history...It is dictatorship. -The Nation (e-zine)
After September 11, we did not, for example, change from a democracy to a dictatorship, from a nation of laws to a nation in which one man endows himself with the authority to act above the law, immune to its dictates and limitations. We are not that country. We must never become that country. However, to hear President Bush, we are that country already. - Atlanta Journal-Constitution

Sounds familiar. I could go on, but I don't want to turn this into a contest of who's taking more crap. Especially when I don't even fall on a side of supporter or detractor on the issue. And, I don't want to sit here for an hour digging through old news.

Holy crap:

Pastor wishes death on Obama (http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/us/2009/09/07/ktvk.az.rally.church.ktvk)
That is terrible. It is shameful to see how some people will behave when they're whipped into a frenzy.

[ShivaX]

The striking difference is that the Atlanta Constitution says "We are not that country. We must never become that country."

Now listen to Glenn Beck. He's saying we ARE that country and these things are have ALREADY happened. One is a word of caution the other is a war cry. If Beck was saying "We have to be careful that we don't become the USSR" that would be one thing. Instead hes saying Obama is hiring a private army to bring about the Fourth Reich.

He stops just short of anything overtly racist, but his choice of words is perfectly designed to perk up those ears and get their attention. Stuff like "This is YOUR America." Who's America?

[Kelegacy]

Glenn Beck and other conservatives want us to suffer in a world where big corporations continually fuck us over and corruption ruins people's pensions, etc--they don't want anything to change, they want it to stay as it is now, where the every man is nothing but food for the rich to consume. Work hard, but we might take everything you ever worked hard for. Sorry. Take a good look at the world they want us to live in--we're in it now. Lack of regulation and corruption has led us down this road, and they don't want to take another.

Basically the greedy bastards are scared of a world where big corporations and industries (like the healthcare insurance industry which is evil in my opinion) aren't powerholders, so they try to liken Obama and anything he's for to communism and the USSR--basically nothing more than scare tactics. And because they support evil companies and industries, they therefore must be evil themselves. Right? Right?

Darth Vader had a red lightsaber. Obi-Wan had a blue. Hmmm. ;)

[fitbabits]

WASHINGTON – In a speech that drew fire even before he delivered it, President Barack Obama will tell the nation's schoolchildren he "expects great things from each of you."

The White House posted Obama's remarks, scheduled for Tuesday, in advance on its Web site at midday Monday.

Obama's planned talk has been controversial, with several conservative organizations and individuals accusing him of trying to delve too directly into local education. But White House officials, including Education Secretary Arne Duncan, have said the charges are silly.

In the remarks set for Tuesday, Obama tells young people that all the work of parents, educators and others won't matter "unless you show up for those schools, pay attention to those teachers."

Obama made no reference in his prepared remarks to the uproar surrounding his speech. He used the talk to tell kids about his at-times clumsy ways as a child and to urge them to identify an area of interest, set goals and work hard to achieve them.

He noted that he was raised by a single mother and that she made him buckle down and work harder at times, and said he's glad she did. The president acknowledged that "it's hard to be successful," but told the students in his prepared speech that the country badly needs their best effort to cope in an increasingly competitive global economy.
OHMYGAWD! Obama's message to kids is to...strive for greatness, it looks like.

Come on, kiddies, listen to the president - be good little Socialist soldiers.

[Kelegacy]

OHMYGAWD! Obama's message to kids is to...strive for greatness, it looks like.

Come on, kiddies, listen to the president - be good little Socialist soldiers.

Conservatives don't want children to work hard and grow up educated. Then they cannot become ignorant brainwashed little conservative soldiers.

[Ultima Thulian]

http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o110/ultima13/Funny%20GIFS/00014ye4.gif

[National Kato]

I submit that it was only dismissed and did not receive more publicity because it was just too wild. If it could have been dialed back to a remotely believable level, of course it would have been leveraged.

That's ridiculous. If only the 9/11 conspiracists had toned down their rhetoric, more Democratic leaders and liberal media would've supported it and echoed it? Bullshit.

To be exact, the quote is "racists, idiots, and other fringe conservatives," as though conservatives have the patents on those things. Emphasis mine, of course. I suspect a tiny bit of backpedaling taking place, but that is just another opinion.

No, no backpedaling. I think it's fair to say that the fringe comments, including the racist and idiotic statements, have been coming from the conservatives in this country. I believe, were you to poll them, the majority would say they are conservative. If that makes you upset because you feel lumped in, well...? I mean, you're on record here for saying that shit is fringe and not indicative of your own personal views. Point taken. But it still is coming from the right in this country. When the leading conservative voices in the media and in positions of party power perpetuate these beliefs, there's no reason to take offense from us for calling it as it is.

[Vigil80]

No, no backpedaling. I think it's fair to say that the fringe comments, including the racist and idiotic statements, have been coming from the conservatives in this country. I believe, were you to poll them, the majority would say they are conservative.
I've never argued that these people don't identify themselves as conservatives. But what I have been trying to argue, I've argued fully four times. There are simply two (at least) divided views, and never the twain shall meet.

[fitbabits]

Conservatives don't want children to work hard and grow up educated. Then they cannot become ignorant brainwashed little conservative soldiers.
I trust you and your lady are raising your kid to raise Conservative hell. :)

[Kelegacy]

I trust you and your lady are raising your kid to raise Conservative hell. :)

If that means I'm going to raise him to be conscientious, open-minded, accepting and rational, then yes. :)

[Ultima Thulian]

So you're basically gonna raise him to be all the things you're not? :D

I kid I kid! :p

[ShivaX]

See heres my problem with the supposed "fringe" of the right: People listen to them.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090907/ap_on_go_pr_wh/us_obama_school_speech
Some conservatives have urged schools and parents to boycott the address. They say Obama is using the opportunity to promote a political agenda.

Schools don't have to show the speech. And some districts have decided not to, partly in response to concerns from parents.

Last I looked the freaks on the left weren't making headway into society. People realized they were crazy and ignored them. Meanwhile the crazies on the right have steadily been making their way into the mainstream since Clinton was in office. Now they're capable of fabricating lies and influencing policy and society at large with those fabrications.

It would be like if a 9/11 Truther could influence how your kids are taught in school. How would you like it if the teachers decided to tell them "Theres pretty good evidence that Bush and Cheney rigged the whole thing with the CIA and maybe Isreal."

[Ultima Thulian]

People listen to many things.

Here's my problem with conservatives. It's a group. Just like liberals. I hate groups, generally speaking. They almost always suck. I wish we woulda listened to Washington and not form any political parties.

[Hemalin]

Here's Obama's speech for tomorrow. (http://www.whitehouse.gov/MediaResources/PreparedSchoolRemarks/)

[ShivaX]

Heres what Joe Scarborough thinks about it all.

http://cloudfront.mediamatters.org/static/images/item/scarb-20090903-scarbtwitter.jpg

Have to say I agree with him.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3036789/vp/32689405#32689405

Not sure if the link works, but theres him commenting on it on his show.

[Kelegacy]

We need more respectable GOP folk to speak out against this bullshit. It's not American. Or, if it is, then we're truly fucked.

[Ultima Thulian]

Been fucked since the end of the second world war. Old hat.

[BlackPete]

And so the political cartoons begin...

http://www.cagle.com/working/090904/benson.gif

[Ultima Thulian]

Ugh...I HATE political cartoons.

Carry on.

[GunnyMo]

Ugh...I HATE political cartoons.

Carry on.

Especially when they are dead on, eh? :p

[Ultima Thulian]

I hate them because they hammer their message with overly blunt methods. And they usually are not funny or insightful either, as they tend to just point out the obvious, as the above cartoon just did.

[ShivaX]

I hate them because they hammer their message with overly blunt methods. And they usually are not funny or insightful either, as they tend to just point out the obvious, as the above cartoon just did.

Yet some people don't see the obvious.

I don't mind political cartoons, they've been around for hundreds of years and haven't really changed much in that time. They make for interesting text book inserts that gives a interesting snapshot of the era through the eyes of someone who lived in it.

[Ultima Thulian]

Yet some people don't see the obvious.

I don't mind political cartoons, they've been around for hundreds of years and haven't really changed much in that time. They make for interesting text book inserts that gives a interesting snapshot of the era through the eyes of someone who lived in it.

How could they not. In political cartoons, they literally LABEL everything for you. Kills the joke. And yes, I realize that the average person is stupid, so creating something directed at a moron demographic seems logical, but most morons never make it past the sports pages or B.C. (man that comic fucking sucks). So it seems rather arbitrary.

I hate 'em.

[BlackPete]

How could they not. In political cartoons, they literally LABEL everything for you. Kills the joke. And yes, I realize that the average person is stupid, so creating something directed at a moron demographic seems logical, but most morons never make it past the sports pages or B.C. (man that comic fucking sucks). So it seems rather arbitrary.

I hate 'em.

It's obvious today. In 5 years time, it won't be so obvious once memory gets fuzzy. Political cartoons help crystallize the moment (a snapshot like ShivaX said), so they make for a handy cliffs notes version of history.

[Telefrog]

Reactions to the speech continue:

This is pure liberal crap. I, for one will not be subjecting my kids to this filth:

"You’ll need the knowledge and problem-solving skills you learn in science and math to cure diseases like cancer and AIDS, and to develop new energy technologies and protect our environment. You’ll need the insights and critical thinking skills you gain in history and social studies to fight poverty and homelessness, crime and discrimination, and make our nation more fair and more free."

Nobama continues his indoctrination methods!

[Kelegacy]

Reactions to the speech continue:

Is that really an actual comment?

[Telefrog]

Is that really an actual comment?

Unfortunately.

People are reacting to the words they feel that stress liberal values. Something like "fight poverty and homelessness" which may be innocent and logical to some, is an affront on conservative values to others. After all, the poor and homeless are that way because they're getting what they deserve for being lazy and not bettering themselves. "Make our nation more fair and more free" is offensive to them because "fair" is a socialist codeword and "more free" implies that only liberal thought will make you free.

Many people are also offended because they feel that this version of the speech was sanitized due to the complaints and that Obama still has a hidden agenda.

It's crazy stuff, but there you go.

[Kelegacy]

These people are afraid that their own indoctrinations that start at home may possibly be threatened by thoughts that their children become caring, giving, selfless people?

Give me a break. These people are monsters in my opinion. When fighting poverty and homelessness, AIDS and other epidemics is a bad thing, you know you have your priorities skewed.

They have serious issues to confront, so much that Obama giving a prep talk to children should be a non-issue.

[National Kato]

Many people are also offended because they feel that this version of the speech was sanitized due to the complaints and that Obama still has a hidden agenda.

Florida GOP Party Chairman Jim Greer is the one who's been getting all the CNN airtime to talk about how they changed the entire speech from a socialist one to this new, palatable one. But, you know, he's not biased or anything (http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/education/orl-loc-maxwell-greer-obama-090509,0,3762186.column):

"Republicans get up and go to work," he would tell his son. "Democrats get up and go down to the mailbox to get their checks."

This man not only talked to his son about Republican values, he went into public-school classrooms and talked about them as well. One Seminole County mother, Barbara Wells, remembers the day Greer spoke to her son's sixth-grade class. "My son said he made some sort of Hillary Clinton joke," she recalled.So it doesn't surprise me that, upon reading the President's speech and realizing his assumptions were bullshit, he now is backpedaling and making the claim that the White House had to scrap their subversive indoctrination speech for the one given today.

[Kelegacy]

Yeah, he's a tool. He tries to brainwash children and is obviously paranoid that others might do the same--maybe undoing all his hard work. So much that he's seeing phantoms all around him.

[Telefrog]

Well, to be fair, the accusation that this speech is a version that has excised stuff that would've verified the attacks is a great catch-22.

[BlackPete]

At Ultima's request, here's another political cartoon which is actually relevant to the previous few comments. :D

http://i26.tinypic.com/bjdgti.jpg

[Ink Asylum]

Well, to be fair, the accusation that this speech is a version that has excised stuff that would've verified the attacks is a great catch-22.

That's the same excuse they'll trot out at the end of Obama's presidency, whether it's in 2012 or 2016. When none of the doomsday scenarios the right predicts occur, and the Obama Fascist Nazi Dictatorship doesn't form, it won't be because none of those fears were unfounded, but because it was the right's vigilance, led by Glenn Beck, that prevented them.

[National Kato]

However, Ink, they'll be sure to tell everyone in 2012 that, while they prevented Obama from turning America into a Nazi state for four years, the threat is still there! Vote Republican!

[Slack3r78]

Heres what Joe Scarborough thinks about it all.

http://cloudfront.mediamatters.org/static/images/item/scarb-20090903-scarbtwitter.jpg

Have to say I agree with him.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3036789/vp/32689405#32689405

Not sure if the link works, but theres him commenting on it on his show.

Quoting for fucking truth. Yet another example of Scarborough being awesome. He's one of the mainstream conservative commenters that I truly respect.

[Ink Asylum]

He's one of the more respectable conservatives in the mainstream, but he lets a little too much garbage slip through during Morning Joe for me to have too much respect for him. He's no Hannity, though, for certain.

[Widgetcraft]

"Republicans get up and go to work," he would tell his son. "Democrats get up and go down to the mailbox to get their checks."

This man not only talked to his son about Republican values, he went into public-school classrooms and talked about them as well. One Seminole County mother, Barbara Wells, remembers the day Greer spoke to her son's sixth-grade class. "My son said he made some sort of Hillary Clinton joke," she recalled.

The great thing is that I live in an area with plenty of professional check-cashers, and they almost always have some real world Republican troll-bait on the back of their broke-ass pick-up truck. I guess their way of life is a social statement of some kind.

[Slack3r78]

He's one of the more respectable conservatives in the mainstream, but he lets a little too much garbage slip through during Morning Joe for me to have too much respect for him. He's no Hannity, though, for certain.

Mostly it's a combination of the fact that he really does strike me as a 'regular guy' and that he's, well, sane compared to his competition. He'll call out the GOP when they're being dumb, but he's also a fairly smart, principled, conservative, meaning he can engage in relatively civil debate.

I mean, yeah, he has his moments of dumb, but his moments of decency outweigh them for me. His interview with Anthony Weiner a while back about UHC is a great example of him giving somebody that he disagrees with a chance to explain their position without reducing it down to soundbites.

EDIT:

And looking at his Twitter feed now, I'm seeing a lot of that smart conservatism that makes me like him. He reminds me a lot of my conservative friends who are frustrated with the way they feel like they've been abandoned by the GOP.

[Narradisall]

At this rate of republican mental degredation they'll probably try to secede from the USA.

[Kelegacy]

At this rate of republican mental degredation they'll probably try to secede from the USA.

And that's fine. I'd gladly give up the south, or a portion of it, to house them all. But weekly raids into their lands by we Yankees would be fun. :)

[Ultima Thulian]

I think the only state with serious motive to actually secede is Vermont. I could be mistaken though, and even in Vermont it's only a few fringe loonies with a hard-on for Canada, which is absurd.

[Ink Asylum]

Texas is pretty gung-ho about secession, too.

[roboninja]

I think the only state with serious motive to actually secede is Vermont. I could be mistaken though, and even in Vermont it's only a few fringe loonies with a hard-on for Canada, which is absurd.

We do look rather striking in a tank top.

[txshurricane]

Texas is pretty gung-ho about secession, too.
You'd be surprised how many of us are NOT for secession, despite having a state constitution that makes it very easy to do so. The only ones that actually want that are the ones that have no clue.

As a staunch conservative, I'm a big fan of Gov. Perry, and I agree with him that state sovereignty is very important...but not to that extreme.

[National Kato]

Rep. Joe Wilson adds to South Carolina political shame. (http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/09/10/obama.heckled.speech/index.html)

Tasteful, really. How quickly the GOP forgets their own mantra.

[Generation ABXY]

Wait, what's their mantra again? Something about death panels is all I'm comin' up with at the moment...

Also, he apologized - that totally makes it okay! ;)

[alienmastermind]

Wait, what's their mantra again? Something about death panels is all I'm comin' up with at the moment...

Also, he apologized - that totally makes it okay! ;)

I don't know...maybe it does.

A Republican from South Carolina disagrees with our President? Whoopdedamndoo.

The same guy screams 'YOU LIE!' when the President has just stated that the opposition has been flat out lying about stuff....that's weird. And newsworthy.

But, the guy goes 'Damn, I guess I got that old time GOP religion, and started screamin' in tongues...please forgive me.'

Once a guy admits that it was wrong and asks for forgiveness. You should forgive him and move on.

The Dems making hay over this are coming off as bush league.

[ShivaX]

The Dems making hay over this are coming off as bush league.

I'd say screaming out was far more bush league, especially yelling "You Lie" to the fucking President while he was talking. Does he have any proof of the lie?

I mean people didn't like Bush, but I don't recall Pelosi calling him a liar or a murderer or whatever she thinks he is during a State of the Union address or anything.

And its not like its just the Dems getting pissed about it.

After the speech, Republican Sen. John McCain, the Republican presidential candidate defeated by Obama last year, called Wilson's outburst "totally disrespectful" and said he should apologize.

Appearing on CNN's "Larry King Live," he said there was "no place for it in that setting or any other and he should apologize immediately."
Rep. Dave Camp of Michigan and ranking Republican on the Ways & Means Committee, told CNN Radio he wasn't happy with the outburst.

"I don't advise that. ... I think it's important to listen as respectfully as possible," he said.

Sen. Bob Corker, R-Tennessee, also denounced the heckling.

"Certainly, I respect the office of the president, and I think that's not the kind of thing that is appropriate in that kind of setting especially," he said. "I don't know who said it, but my sense is most people don't think it was a good idea it occurred. And I happen to be one of those."

Sen. Lindsey Graham, R-South Carolina, told CNN affiliate WIS-TV in Columbia that he, too, was disappointed.

"The president's combative tone did not justify a member of Congress shouting out, 'You lie,' " said Graham. "Our nation's president deserves to be treated with respect. It was an inappropriate remark, and I am glad an apology has been made."

[Generation ABXY]

The same guy screams 'YOU LIE!' when the President has just stated that the opposition has been flat out lying about stuff....that's weird.

To be fair, there is some question over whether or not this health care overhaul will, in fact, cover illegal immigrants. A fair number of non-partisan fact checkers have said, yeah, there's a good chance it will.

Of course, all of this would be much easier to say for sure if there weren't so many damn versions of the bill floating around and we could see some definitive language.

[ShivaX]

To be fair, there is some question over whether or not this health care overhaul will , in fact, cover illegal immigrants. A fair number of non-partisan fact checkers have said, yeah, there's a good chance it will.

Of course, all of this would be much easier to say for sure if there weren't so many damn versions of the bill floating around and we could see some definitive language.

I don't see how it could cover illegals any more than current insurance does. And for that matter we already cover illegals when they walk into an ER. I'm pretty sure Obama isn't putting in language that specifically allows illegals to get coverage. If anything the courts would probably somehow cause it to happen.

Regardless screaming "You lie" during the address is over the top no matter whos in the office. Then again it seems like the standard the GOP has sunk to these days, so I guess I shouldn't be suprised.

[alienmastermind]

To be fair, there is some question over whether or not this health care overhaul will, in fact, cover illegal immigrants. A fair number of non-partisan fact checkers have said, yeah, there's a good chance it will.

Of course, all of this would be much easier to say for sure if there weren't so many damn versions of the bill floating around and we could see some definitive language.

Sure, but the CNN thing that was posted above has a fact check that has the wording of the Bill in question and states that it's false. I agree that the wording on most of this stuff would make a whore blush, but there you go...the sausage making portion of our democracy. :)

I don't think Obama's agenda includes covering illegals for mammograms.

Also, did this guy piss himself over Bush's suggested Amnesty for the Illegals?

I don't know my history so well with this guy.

[alienmastermind]

Okay. But let's talk about the merits of forcing illegals to participate in health care coverage. If they sign on to health coverage, we can then say 'Well Gustav, you're here from Romania illegally, so, we're going to have to either get you a visa, or get you the hell back to Romania. But here's your stitches.'

I would also like to see illegals forced to participate in auto insurance as well. But I'm biased on that score.

[ShivaX]

Okay. But let's talk about the merits of forcing illegals to participate in health care coverage. If they sign on to health coverage, we can then say 'Well Gustav, you're here from Romania illegally, so, we're going to have to either get you a visa, or get you the hell back to Romania. But here's your stitches.'

I would also like to see illegals forced to participate in auto insurance as well. But I'm biased on that score.

Well sure, but technically if they're illegal and they start buying insurance and shit the natural question becomes: "Why the fuck aren't we deporting these people?" They're not going to participate unless you give them all amnesty, which is a whole other can of worms.

[alienmastermind]

Well sure, but technically if they're illegal and they start buying insurance and shit the natural question becomes: "Why the fuck aren't we deporting these people?" They're not going to participate unless you give them all amnesty, which is a whole other can of worms.

The answer would probably be an ugly truth: that the illegal immigration problem is probably untenable.

[txshurricane]

Well sure, but technically if they're illegal and they start buying insurance and shit the natural question becomes: "Why the fuck aren't we deporting these people?" They're not going to participate unless you give them all amnesty, which is a whole other can of worms.

Yes, it is. I'd have to skip the rest of this thread if we opened that one. So far I've been able to read everything here with a healthy grain of salt. But illegal immigration is a horse pill of a topic for me.

[GunnyMo]

Last night was a chance for Republicans to show just what complete jack asses they really are. Cantor texting on his Blackberry during the speech and Wilson calling the President a liar?

At least Wilson had the balls to apologize. Cantor made the news rounds this morning defending his disrespect.

The conservative implosion is such fun!

[Narradisall]

Even British MP's wait till the PM's finished talking to call him a liar. I watched some of the President's speech and was actually rather disguisted. Granted I give the guy some points back for apologising, but it was like watching a bunch of school children who can't accept they lost the last lunchtime game.

[GunnyMo]

Even British MP's wait till the PM's finished talking to call him a liar. I watched some of the President's speech and was actually rather disguisted. Granted I give the guy some points back for apologising, but it was like watching a bunch of school children who can't accept they lost the last lunchtime game.

Great point! They have been acting like petulant children. lol :D

[Kelegacy]

Politics in general is just a bunch of grown men acting like children.

[Lance Uppercut]

Texas is pretty gung-ho about secession, too.

They can take Texas, but let the Union keep Austin. They don't want all those hipsters anyway.

[Ink Asylum]

Then there's the Republicans waving printouts of a Republican bill around during the speech last night.

http://bagnewsnotes.typepad.com/.a/6a00d8341cc90353ef0120a55ec207970b-pi

Save that for your response speech after the President finishes his, guys.

And this gem:

http://bagnewsnotes.typepad.com/.a/6a00d8341cc90353ef0120a55f76d8970b-pi

Stunning behavior, though not very surprising anymore.

[National Kato]

Wait, what's their mantra again? Something about death panels is all I'm comin' up with at the moment...


I was referring to support of a sitting President during a time of war, or just plain ol' support for the Commander In Chief. Don't get me wrong: I personally believe in vocal dissent. I'm just saying behavior like this, in comparison with the GOP's drumbeat during the Bush years, strikes me as humorous and telling.

As for whether it was proper? I've always wanted our houses of government to be a bit more like the House of Commons, so maybe I'm not the right one to weigh in. :)

[Voodoo]

I've always wanted our houses of government to be a bit more like the House of Commons, so maybe I'm not the right one to weigh in. :)
Agreed. I love watching House of Commons responses. I always thought that the American house and senate acts far too proper and detached.

How they acted last night though... I agree with everyone. There's a time and place to act like that and it ISN'T during a president's address to congress.

[Kelegacy]

Agreed. I love watching House of Commons responses. I always thought that the American house and senate acts far too proper and detached.

How they acted last night though... I agree with everyone. There's a time and place to act like that and it ISN'T during a president's address to congress.

Are you Voodoo or Bacalou? I'm confused.

[Telefrog]

Very disappointing that a member of congress was unable to keep his yap shut while the President speaks. C'mon, guys! You can disagree with the President. In fact, I encourage you to question him on these issues, but do it after he's done talking.

http://13.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_kpqhjj7a3O1qzpwi0o1_500.jpg

[Serapth]

Very disappointing that a member of congress was unable to keep his yap shut while the President speaks. C'mon, guys! You can disagree with the President. In fact, I encourage you to question him on these issues, but do it after he's done talking.

http://13.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_kpqhjj7a3O1qzpwi0o1_500.jpg

I like the smirk, almost like he knows this fucktard is actually kinda helping him.

Now, if looks could kill, Pelosi and Biden would be up on murder charges. Actually, Biden looks like he is gonna kill someone, Pelosi looks like she just saw the corpse of her political future.

[Voodoo]

Are you Voodoo or Bacalou? I'm confused.
It was voted at PAX for me to return to Voodoo. :D

[Generation ABXY]

Regardless screaming "You lie" during the address is over the top no matter whos in the office. Then again it seems like the standard the GOP has sunk to these days, so I guess I shouldn't be suprised.

Oh, I agree. I found it quite immature, and certainly think he could have handled it better. I wouldn't necessarily say they need to chuck the guy out of office over it, but if he doesn't get reelected, there'll be no reason to ask why...

[LongStepMantis]

Oh, I agree. I found it quite immature, and certainly think he could have handled it better. I wouldn't necessarily say they need to chuck the guy out of office over it, but if he doesn't get reelected, there'll be no reason to ask why...

He committed political suicide. Support for his opposition candidate exploded like a damn supernova overnight. There have even been organized boycotts of tourism in South Carolina. I doubt any further punishment is necessary. Stick a fork in him, he's done.

[Telefrog]

Great analysis at Time (http://www.time.com/time/politics/article/0,8599,1921455,00.html).

At the moment Wilson exploded, the outburst seemed like an assault on the President. Soon afterward, it was clear that it had been a gift. Wilson had, in an emotional expression, proven Obama's point: the summer of town halls had been less a discussion than a circus, a forum where misinformation was vindicated by passion, where disrespect was elevated to a virtue. Now the circus had come inside Congress.

[BlackPete]

On a different tangent... Sarah Palin accuses Obama of lacking civility. (http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009/09/palin-so-much-for-civility-with-obamas-debunking-of-death-panels.php)

I'll say that again: Sarah Palin. Accuses Obama. Of lacking civility.

She's quite the master (?mistress?) of projection, that's for sure.

[Adam Blue]

I know this thread is about calling out conservatives, but I gotta say I'm not too happy about the guy running our country.

[BlackPete]

I know this thread is about calling out conservatives, but I gotta say I'm not too happy about the guy running our country.

I see it more as calling people out on the stupid things they say.

[National Kato]

I see it more as calling people out on the stupid things they say.

Who just happen to be conservatives. :D

[LongStepMantis]

On a different tangent... Sarah Palin accuses Obama of lacking civility. (http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009/09/palin-so-much-for-civility-with-obamas-debunking-of-death-panels.php)

I'll say that again: Sarah Palin. Accuses Obama. Of lacking civility.

She's quite the master (?mistress?) of projection, that's for sure.

Why the fuck do people keep writing articles about what Palin thinks?
She already failed her own state, I doubt she has any good ideas for the rest of us. Looking at the line-up of figures many hardcore Republicans turn to for guidance, I'm hardly surprised they're so backwards.

[Adam Blue]

I see it more as calling people out on the stupid things they say.

Then it shouldn't be grouped by parties, just people. I will never be proud to say I'm one or the other just by the fact of how strongly American's associate parties. That's one thing we are doing wrong for the country.

[BlackPete]

Then it shouldn't be grouped by parties, just people. I will never be proud to say I'm one or the other just by the fact of how strongly American's associate parties. That's one thing we are doing wrong for the country.

Yep I'm actively against being partisan -- it focuses too much on the party and less on the country's well being.

I do hope that the USA will someday find itself with more than two viable parties, which should help force Americans to think beyond either-or type of reasoning.

And maybe I really will find that pot of gold at the end of the rainbow...

[BlackPete]

Why the fuck do people keep writing articles about what Palin thinks?
She already failed her own state, I doubt she has any good ideas for the rest of us. Looking at the line-up of figures many hardcore Republicans turn to for guidance, I'm hardly surprised they're so backwards.

You have to admit... Palin is pretty entertaining. For all the wrong reasons, surely, but still entertaining.

[LongStepMantis]

Then it shouldn't be grouped by parties, just people. I will never be proud to say I'm one or the other just by the fact of how strongly American's associate parties. That's one thing we are doing wrong for the country.

Is it to late to disband both parties and make everyone start from scratch?


I guess we can't focus solely on the individual candidate's platform, we like to root for teams, it's easier. ;)

You have to admit... Palin is pretty entertaining. For all the wrong reasons, surely, but still entertaining.

I dislike her, but I guess I can't say I mind her getting exposure after all. She can help the Republicans implode faster. Maybe then they can reform as something better, like a T-1000! Only with reform bills instead of stabbing weapons.

[Slack3r78]

Is it to late to disband both parties and make everyone start from scratch?
America will remain a two-party nation unless our system of government is significantly reworked. It's really the only stable end-state for our system of government.

[Widgetcraft]

yL5KRB8hG1U&NR=1

It is nice to have someone as dignified as Obama in charge.

[Kelegacy]

You have to admit... Palin is pretty entertaining. For all the wrong reasons, surely, but still entertaining.

She'll not be the next president, but she could be the next Glenn Beck or Limbaugh. Conservatives would eat the peanuts out of her shit like they do these other wackjobs.

[Narradisall]

Hold on a sec, was this an open debate or was it a Presidential address?

[Ink Asylum]

Presidential Joint Address to Congress.

[Narradisall]

Presidential Joint Address to Congress.

They live on TV I take it? I know the guy apologised already, I just can't believe someone would actually heckle the elected leader of the country in an address to the nation (so to speak).

Surprised he didn't throw a shoe at him.

[Ink Asylum]

TyTelRaoBAI

Since it hasn't been posted yet.

[sugah]

I am a political analyst. I also used to work for the GOP. I am also an engineer so I do have SOME common sense. I am a Liberal Republican. The Republicans freed the slaves! As a matter of fact the Conservatives who call themselves "The Republican Base" or "Silent Majority", were ALL Democrats until LBJ signed the civil rights laws JFK was pushing for b4 his death. Then all WHITE RACIST MEN left the Democratic Party and went to the Republican party, b4 that the republican party were ALL liberal! CONSERVATIVE JUST MEANS RACIST-PERIOD.

[txshurricane]

CONSERVATIVE JUST MEANS RACIST-PERIOD.
Really? Wow. So glad you just informed me of that, I was worried...couldn't decide if I was racist or not. :)
I'm curious: is there a specific race that conservatives hate?

^ Cracks me up. Thanks for balancing out the whole thread in one sentence.

[Vulture]

I am a political analyst..

I am intrigued by your ideas and would like to subscribe to your newsletter

[Generation ABXY]

TyTelRaoBAI

Since it hasn't been posted yet.

I have to admit, Pelosi's look cracked me up; if they had had a better angle, it could have easily been the new Dramatic Prairie Dog. :D

[Ultima Thulian]

I like Obama's expression more. He has that "you activated my trap card" look. Wilson played into his hands like putty.

[Generation ABXY]

Yeah, his smirk was the first thing I noticed. All of their expressions are priceless, really - I mean, when you can embarrass Biden, you know you've stepped in it...

Also, I have no idea what you were referencing with the trap card thing. :o

[nnanji]

Also, I have no idea what you were referencing with the trap card thing. :o

It's a Yu-Gi-Oh thing, I think.

[Adam Blue]

I like Obama's expression more. He has that "you activated my trap card" look. Wilson played into his hands like putty.

How was it a trap? Does Obama have to be inconsistent to win?

Oh wait...

[Generation ABXY]

How was it a trap?

Well, at the very least, it succeeded in making Republicans look a little...unstable. You have to admit, he could just as easily waited until the end and offered a more eloquent rebuttal, citing sources or calling on the president to provide some definitive language instead of just shouting at the top of his lungs.

I mean, who are you more likely to believe: the guy in the middle of the street telling you the end is nigh, or the NASA scientist who shows you calculations and satellite images of the asteroid about to slam into the planet?

[Adam Blue]

Well, at the very least, it succeeded in making Republicans look a little...unstable. You have to admit, he could just as easily waited until the end and offered a more eloquent rebuttal, citing sources or calling on the president to provide some definitive language instead of just shouting at the top of his lungs.

I mean, who are you more likely to believe: the guy in the middle of the street telling you the end is nigh, or the NASA scientist who shows you calculations and satellite images of the asteroid about to slam into the planet?

It's no different than other times an outburst has occured in the history of political speeches/debates. Trying to turn it around as a trap is ridiculous. I never said what he did was correct; yes it should have waited. But why are we trying to 'trap'? We are one nation correct? Shouldn't we agree that was odd of Obama to say? I think that's a bigger issue. Or are we using this to mask ACORN?

Seriously, outbursts are never needed, no matter how emotionally involved you may be (though really, at least some one is reading a bill!), but I think Obama's words are a bigger deal to Americans than Wilson saying 'You Lie!'.

[Generation ABXY]

Shouldn't we agree that was odd of Obama to say? I think that's a bigger issue.

Well, it seems that aspect isn't being entirely ignored (http://www.time.com/time/politics/article/0,8599,1921713,00.html):

The controversy over Republican Representative Joe Wilson's shouting "You lie!" at the President over his claim that illegal immigrants wouldn't benefit from health-care reform apparently sparked some reconsideration of the relevant language. "We really thought we'd resolved this question of people who are here illegally, but as we reflected on the President's speech last night, we wanted to go back and drill down again," said Senator Kent Conrad, one of the Democrats in the talks after a meeting Thursday morning. Later that afternoon, Baucus said the group would add a proof-of-citizenship requirement for participation in the new health exchange — a move likely to inflame the left.

Perhaps some good will come from this, after all.

...

Also, as I've said, it will be perfectly understandable if this guy loses his seat (which I don't think will happen), but some of the reactions to this are hilarious. I mean, The Hill seems to be digging up dirt on him (http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/58257-wilson-regularly-took-caffeine-pills-in-2007) (I imagine Fabian will stroke if he hears of some of the things our past few presidents, including Obama, have dabbled in) and the House wants to introduce a “Resolution of Disapproval” (http://thehill.com/homenews/house/58331-dems-lay-plans-to-scold-wilson) next week. I mean, honestly, I would have thought they'd have bigger fish to fry and I'm actually a little irked that we're paying them to do this.

[Adam Blue]

Also, as I've said, it will be perfectly understandable if this guy loses his seat (which I don't think will happen), but some of the reactions to this are hilarious. I mean, The Hill seems to be digging up dirt on him (http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/58257-wilson-regularly-took-caffeine-pills-in-2007) (I imagine Fabian will stroke if he hears of some of the things our past few presidents, including Obama, have dabbled in) and the House wants to introduce a “Resolution of Disapproval” (http://thehill.com/homenews/house/58331-dems-lay-plans-to-scold-wilson) next week. I mean, honestly, I would have thought they'd have bigger fish to fry and I'm actually a little irked that we're paying them to do this.

I wasn't aware of that, and while loosing a seat due to conduct is fine, they do have bigger fish to fry.

[National Kato]

CNN is reporting Joe Wilson has raised over $200K after his outburst (http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/09/11/wilson.fundraising/index.html). You just know the base is going to support him.

[ShivaX]

Fortunately it seems like people who aren't the base have them out gunned.

The appeal for cash came as Wilson's Democratic opponent in next year's congressional race, Rob Miller, reported raking in $750,000 as a result of the outburst during Obama's address to a joint session of Congress.

[National Kato]

Yeah, it's obviously an 'Oh, yeah? Well how about this!" kind of issue. As soon as reports of how much Miller was raising hit the airwaves, the base had to strike back.

Hey, who doesn't like a healthy back-and-forth when it comes to people spending money? :)

[GunnyMo]

CNN is reporting Joe Wilson has raised over $200K after his outburst (http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/09/11/wilson.fundraising/index.html). You just know the base is going to support him.

And the Democrat who's going to run against him next year has raised over $750k since the outburst. ;)

[GunnyMo]

I wasn't aware of that, and while loosing a seat due to conduct is fine, they do have bigger fish to fry.

I agree. I mean, no Congress has ever wasted years and money on something completely pointless. Oh wait. I forgot about Ken Starr. :D

[Generation ABXY]

Fortunately it seems like people who aren't the base have them out gunned.

And the Democrat who's going to run against him next year has raised over $750k since the outburst. ;)

Well, donations alone aren't a very accurate barometer for success. I'm not sure if it is true or not, but I read somewhere that Wilson's district leans pretty heavily to the right, so there's a good chance he could keep his seat regardless of how much money his opponent is raking in.

I agree. I mean, no Congress has ever wasted years and money on something completely pointless. Oh wait. I forgot about Ken Starr. :D

Waste is waste regardless of the precedent, as far as I'm concerned (I can't speak for Adam, of course).

[Adam Blue]

Waste is waste regardless of the precedent, as far as I'm concerned (I can't speak for Adam, of course).

I agree.

Although, I don't post here in P&R much. I like political discussion, but I like it even. CoG seems one-sided. I don't like Johan, but the 2nd post to his 'Hate' thread was uncalled for. Yeah, he's not good with the arguments but there was no need to do that to his thread. Not cool CoG.

[BlackPete]

It looks like the race is truly on... (http://voices.washingtonpost.com/capitol-briefing/2009/09/scs_wilson_rakes_in_750000_in.html) Wilson is now at $750k while his opponent is over a million.

[Ink Asylum]

Well, donations alone aren't a very accurate barometer for success. I'm not sure if it is true or not, but I read somewhere that Wilson's district leans pretty heavily to the right, so there's a good chance he could keep his seat regardless of how much money his opponent is raking in.

Could be, but his district didn't respond well to his outburst in a recent poll. (http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009/09/poll-joe-wilson-trails-dem-opponent-rob-miller-in-wake-of-you-lie-outburst.php)

A new poll of Rep. Joe Wilson's (R-SC) district by Public Policy Polling (D) says that the controversial Congressman may have seriously landed himself in hot water through his "You lie!" outburst -- and is now trailing his Democratic opponent by one point.

Democratic candidate Rob Miller, who has received a ton of money from donors around the country since Wednesday night, now has 44%, to Wilson's 43%. The two both have 75% support among their own parties, but Miller leads among independents by 47%-39%. Only 29% of the total pool of respondents approved of Wilson's actions at the speech, compared to 62% who disapproved.

I believe the odds still favor Wilson to keep his seat, but his outburst definitely made that a lot harder for himself. You can bet that his "You lie!" clip will be featured prominently in next year's ads, especially if Obama is still popular.

[LongStepMantis]

I think the fact that people have been canceling all sorts of trips and events in South Carolina has them concerned. I can't find it right now, but I read an interview that was done with some of the business and tourism officials in SC where they talk about how they've had people calling all day, every day since the outburst, to cancel tickets to football games, vacation plans, you name it.

I think it sounds ridiculous to boycott the state over this, but apparently there are enough people who don't think it is. A lot of tourism-related business people there are apparently not happy. I don't know how that will ultimately affect Wilson's political career, if at all, but I still think that Wilson is done. Despite efforts by his base to prop him up, I think he's effectively given his state a black eye as far as public relations. My prediction is that he will fail to be reelected, and fade into obscurity. But who knows.

[Kelegacy]

It might be silly, but I think it's great to see people organize to send a message. We are so damn complacent these days.

[LongStepMantis]

It might be silly, but I think it's great to see people organize to send a message. We are so damn complacent these days.

I agree. I mostly meant that it was a little much to punish the entire state for it. They did elect him, but I'm sure most of the citizens of SC who work in or depend on the tourism industry aren't the ones who deserve to be punished.

You're right though, it's nice to see action over apathy even if it is misguided, imo.

[txshurricane]

It might be silly, but I think it's great to see people organize to send a message. We are so damn complacent these days.

Does this impress you, then? http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/09/12/tea.party.rally/index.html

[Voodoo]

Hello from DC. :) I took a lot of pictures and video too.

Does this impress you, then? http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/09/12/tea.party.rally/index.html

[txshurricane]

Hello from DC. :) I took a lot of pictures and video too.

Let's see 'em!

[Narradisall]

Well I think Sugah cleared this all up so neat and tidy like, a man of few words (and posts).

[BlackPete]

Hmm... I didn't think this was worth creating a new thread about, so I figured this (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/cenk-uygur/the-911-standard_b_283143.html) belonged to this thread as it basically reveals just how silly the "Bush kept America safe!" talking point really is.

It's an amusing thought experiment at least.

Who has done a better job of keeping the country safer - George Bush or Barack Obama? Well, as soon as it we make it past the morning of 9/11, then Obama will have officially kept us safer longer than George Bush did when he entered office. It's empirical. You can't argue with it.

Of course, in reality the circumstances are different and you can't necessarily compare one time period to another. And Bush supporters could even make an argument that we have not been hit on Obama's watch because of what a great job Bush did to keep us safe earlier.

But that leads us to the second point about 9/11. Republicans would love to take credit for the safety we are enjoying under Obama, but do you think that they would say the same thing if the shoe was on the other foot? If we were attacked right now, do you think a single one of them would say it's because Bush didn't do enough to keep us safe on his watch? Not one, right? Do you think a single one of them would say that it wasn't Obama's fault because it's too early in his administration? Not one, right?


Anyway... fuck partisanship.

[Kelegacy]

Hmm... I didn't think this was worth creating a new thread about, so I figured this (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/cenk-uygur/the-911-standard_b_283143.html) belonged to this thread as it basically reveals just how silly the "Bush kept America safe!" talking point really is.

It's an amusing thought experiment at least.



Anyway... fuck partisanship.

It's completely true. It would be funny if it wasn't so damn sad. Washington, to me, is like a giant elementary school playground. They're all children. I think to be a successfully sleazy politician you have to have an underlying psychological disorder that Freud could probably diagnose better than I.

And on the topic of Healthcare, people are just inherently scared of change. It doesn't matter that Medicare was demonized prior to its inception as being "socialist" but now look at it. Republicans, and democrats as well, want to protect Medicare and the Medicare population is overwhelmingly happy with it. But that doesn't stop politicians from saying stupid shit because this "shit" is usually locked onto by like-minded simpletons and accepted as fact.

[Zero]

President Obama as an African witch doctor were popular images.

Nope, there are no racist conservatives.

BTW, I honestly had no idea the teabaggers were still around. I guess that's a good sign.

[Generation ABXY]

Republicans, and democrats as well, want to protect Medicare and the Medicare population is overwhelmingly happy with it.

Actually, I believe they more want to protect their seats. While the idea behind Medicare may have been noble, the execution has been horrible and any politician worried about more than their own self interests would have to admit that the program either needs to be killed or at least seriously overhauled.

The fact that so many aren't is, I think, a very telling sign of what's really wrong in D.C.

Nope, there are no racist conservatives.

Look out behind you, it's a strawman! :p

[LongStepMantis]

Whatever Sara Palin is doing is causing great discern to the liberal left, so I am behind her 100%, whether I agree with her or not!

I heard this gem earlier today from an outspoken republican defending Palin from us evil liberals.
Fuck it, I guess I might as well wash my hands of politics entirely. After all, it's all about what team you root for, right? The players, and what they do or plan to do, is a non-issue, apparently.

[ShivaX]

I heard this gem earlier today from an outspoken republican defending Palin from us evil liberals.
Fuck it, I guess I might as well wash my hands of politics entirely. After all, it's all about what team you root for, right? The players, and what they do or plan to do, is a non-issue, apparently.

The funny thing is that the current "definition" of liberal left to most of these people is everyone who isn't a nutjob at this point. I guess when you go far enough to the right everyone else looks like they're pretty far left. Including those dirty moderates and moderate conservatives that tend to decide elections.

[Ultima Thulian]

I heard this gem earlier today from an outspoken republican defending Palin from us evil liberals.
Fuck it, I guess I might as well wash my hands of politics entirely. After all, it's all about what team you root for, right? The players, and what they do or plan to do, is a non-issue, apparently.

NOW you understand. Bout damn time. Politics is sports, and y'all suckaz is budget. Once you figure that out and remain detached, politics can actually be fun. I totally have zombie Teddy Roosevelt on my fantasy Presidential Administration team this year. Gonna kick some ass.

[LongStepMantis]

NOW you understand. Bout damn time. Politics is sports, and y'all suckaz is budget. Once you figure that out and remain detached, politics can actually be fun. I totally have zombie Teddy Roosevelt on my fantasy Presidential Administration team this year. Gonna kick some ass.

I would have went for Samurai Lincoln (http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/Samurai_Lincoln), but that's still a damn good choice.

[Widgetcraft]

Sarah Palin is a plant sent by the liberal left to destroy the conservative "movement" in America once and for all. It is totally working, too.

Also: J.D. and Turk from Scrubs just told me to push for healthcare reform while I was watching Comedy Central. That was kind of weird.

[Chaos Machine]

In my experiences with trying to hold a rationale conversation with a few of my associates who consider themselves "conservative" about this school talk I found that the conversation eventually devolves into "hes a commie" or a "pinko" or socialist/obamacare....whatever.

Really, if you want to call obama a socialist you might as well call dick cheney a fascist, not only did he help weaken our liberties but he also helped induce nearly a decade of fearmongering that fomented racism toward muslims and destroyed our reputation with the international community. I could go as far as saying he put the country in great danger with the wars in iraq and afghanistan instead of focusing on real threats like iran and north korea. And no i am not talking about bush, cause i am fairly certain that cheney was running the show up until the final two years of bush jr's presidency. To be honest I think the history books will portray bush as a regular guy who got in over his head and turned to a really bad man for support.

whoa i went off on a tangent there.

[txshurricane]

In my experiences with trying to hold a rationale conversation with a few of my associates who consider themselves "conservative" about this school talk I found that the conversation eventually devolves into "hes a commie" or a "pinko" or socialist/obamacare....whatever.
Is that a dig on conservatives, or your associates? :confused:

Really, if you want to call obama a socialist you might as well call dick cheney a fascist, not only did he help weaken our liberties but he also helped induce nearly a decade of fearmongering that fomented racism toward muslims and destroyed our reputation with the international community. I could go as far as saying he put the country in great danger with the wars in iraq and afghanistan instead of focusing on real threats like iran and north korea. And no i am not talking about bush, cause i am fairly certain that cheney was running the show up until the final two years of bush jr's presidency. To be honest I think the history books will portray bush as a regular guy who got in over his head and turned to a really bad man for support.

whoa i went off on a tangent there.
Yeah, I'd go so far as to say that you just responded to fanaticism with a fanaticism of your own. :D

[Chaos Machine]

Is that a dig on conservatives, or your associates? :confused:


Yeah, I'd go so far as to say that you just responded to fanaticism with a fanaticism of your own. :D

its a little of both, I personally dont think there is anything fanatic about calling cheney a fascist, why dont you listen to some of the interviews he has done and things he did during his tenure in the white house, its some pretty scary stuff. The guy was pretty hardcore about putting the government over the needs of the people and that to me is fascist. Every day our government gets more and more alienated from its people, the almighty dollar is the only thing politicians listen to nowadays and when you have special interests groups and a military industrial complex that needs conflict to sustain itself firmly integrated into government its pretty plain to see our country is heading in the wrong direction. Not only that but you now have a mainstream media that has gone completely batshit fucking insane, its like a cracked out hooker with ADHD. There are no grey areas or moderates in media anymore, its either a left wing liberal tree hugger or right wing gun nut clinging to his bible. You got idiots like glenn beck and rush limbaugh spoon feeding their base with lies and distortions cause it gets them ratings and a chance to grab a headline.

A great example was the van jones kerfluffel, glenn beck tells a story about how van jones is a black panther who associates himself with murderers on death row. While van jones had incidental contact with members of the black panthers back in the 70s(he went on a radio show where the DJ was an activist) that doesnt mean he hates white people NOW it was fucking 30+ years ago and we live in a different era where minorities dont have to fight for their civil rights. He tries to draw the same connection to murderers via the same DJ, I believe his man was mumami or something, he was convicted of killing a cop in the 80s, 10 years after van jones called into his philly radio station. But none of that gets mentioned, only the parts about mumami being a convicted murderer and that van jones "associates" himself with him.

its really depressing that i have to turn to foreign news websites to get any type of information that is free from bias and political agenda.

[txshurricane]

its really depressing that i have to turn to foreign news websites to get any type of information that is free from bias and political agenda.
I don't mean to devalue the rest of your post by not responding, but I just don't have a response. Most of politics is assumption and theory, with only interviews and speeches written by third parties as evidence.

As to what I quoted above, however: I don't want too many news channels period -- much less foreign news -- but the only way to be completely convinced that a news channel is unbiased is to agree with or believe exactly what is reported. Which means that you hope they're unbiased and that you're getting the correct information, otherwise they're pulling the same dupe.

[Deadend]

I saw this picture.. and this thread came to mind.

http://img269.imageshack.us/img269/3787/emericav3.jpg

[Crowe]

Holy fuck at that picture. Bunch of dumb hicks the lot of them.

[Shrinn]

I'm really hoping that the "Joe the Plummer" pic is an anti-conservative thing. That whole Joe fiasco was ridiculous and seeing people take the piss out of it warms my heart. That excuses the poor spelling, then.

[txshurricane]

Well, to be fair: they made their own signs. Could be worse...they could require teleprompters for their chants. :P

[Kelegacy]

Our country needs better schools and education budgets. Obviously.

[Ink Asylum]

Well, to be fair: they made their own signs. Could be worse...they could require teleprompters for their chants. :P

Like this guy?
http://static.open.salon.com/files/bush_on_abe_lincoln_mission_accomplished_small-thumb-425x2781238202925.jpg

And this guy?
http://images.encarta.msn.com/xrefmedia/sharemed/targets/images/pho/t041/T041653A.jpg

And this guy?
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/2e/President_Reagan_gives_the_State_of_the_Union_Addr ess_to_Congress_1988.jpg

And this guy?
http://blog.davidhertenstein.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/mccain-teleprompter.jpg

[txshurricane]

Like this guy?
And this guy?
And this guy?
And this guy?

Exactly.


Oh, wait...you thought I was talking about one person in particular? Partisan assumption fail.

[Ink Asylum]

Then I guess your joke is just a non-sequiter that makes no sense.

[alienmastermind]

IPYbPsvOnX8

[Panthera]

Exactly.


Oh, wait...you thought I was talking about one person in particular? Partisan assumption fail.

There aren't enough rolleyes in the world.

[ShivaX]

There aren't enough rolleyes in the world.

Agreed.

Not to mention it makes the original point even more idiotic. "Stupid regular people are smarter than important smart people cause they don't have teleprompters." Wait.. what?

If you're too stupid to use a dictionary or a search engine then you're an idiot. If you go in public and display your stupidity, you're an even bigger idiot and should be expected to be called on it.

[Serapth]

Funny enough, the Ron Blaggooyyyavich interview on Jon Stewart last night reminded me just how thoroughly the Left are sheepish as well. He raised some perfectly valid points but was pretty much mocked all throughout.

Granted, even at their worst, the leftist media can't hold a candle to the right wing media in terms of being dbags... but then, a lot of that can be blamed on Rupert Murdoch, who frankly seems like the poster child of capitalistic evil.

[Widgetcraft]

Funny enough, the Ron Blaggooyyyavich interview on Jon Stewart last night reminded me just how thoroughly the Left are sheepish as well. He raised some perfectly valid points but was pretty much mocked all throughout.

...You know that Blagojevich is a Democrat, right? He also didn't have any valid points, as 90% of what he was saying to Jon were blatant lies. Eventually everyone will know that, but in the mean time, he can peddle his book.

[Serapth]

...You know that Blagojevich is a Democrat, right? He also didn't have any valid points, as 90% of what he was saying to Jon were blatant lies. Eventually everyone will know that, but in the mean time, he can peddle his book.

Cite sources, please? K, thanks?

(Edit: Not the Democrat part, the lies part )

[Vigil80]

txshurricane, I'd just steer clear if I were you. There might be some fun to be had around here in CoG's red light district. But this particular spot is like Studio 54. Not everybody is allowed to party in here. ;)

[Ultima Thulian]

Typically speaking, the P&R forums here are actually pretty good. But lately it's been a leftard fest. It's likely the absence of certain members causing this, but even so, it kinda blows. We need more conservatards to balance things out.

[txshurricane]

txshurricane, I'd just steer clear if I were you. There might be some fun to be had around here in CoG's red light district. But this particular spot is like Studio 54. Not everybody is allowed to party in here. ;)
I probably should have known that wandering into a thread with "Conservatives" and "moronic" in the title would just be taking part in a witch hunt...as the witch. :)

[Narradisall]

I'm actually probably more conservative leaning, but I don't count the Republicans in that group. I rarely see Democrats acting as raving lunatic insane as the Republicans, I may be wrong but the worst I see with Democrats is screwing around outside marraige. Republicans strike me as more *vicious* about it too, and even more hypocritical than I expect the standard politician to be.

... and they've been getting worse...

[Generation ABXY]

Well, to be fair: they made their own signs. Could be worse...they could require teleprompters for their chants. :P

For me, “where's the proof that they're real” would have been the angle to play.

If I were interested in discrediting my political opponents, planting seemingly innocuous signs and stereotypical players (and, of course, getting a picture of them) would be an excellent way to do it. At that point, it's just a matter of asking people if that's who they want to be associated with – you may not get them on your side, but they're not on the other and sometimes that's enough.

[The Doctor]

Exactly.


Oh, wait...you thought I was talking about one person in particular? Partisan assumption fail.

No, not fail. You know perfectly well that people have been throwing the fact that he uses a teleprompter so often in Obama's face since day one.

In the context of the discussion and your apparent conservative leanings, it is obvious that everyone would take that as the intended meaning.

What could you have done in response to the reply? You could have said "No, I wasn't talking just about Obama. That's what I get for not being more specific."

Instead you take a move right out of the Schnoogs playbook, and try to blame everybody else for misunderstanding you and even append it with a snarky "fail" comment.

So no, it's not a partisan assumption fail, it's a "didn't bother to make himself clear in the first damned place" fail if anything.

[Vigil80]

Clearly, it's a "depends on your perspective" situation.

[txshurricane]

No, not fail. You know perfectly well that people have been throwing the fact that he uses a teleprompter so often in Obama's face since day one.

In the context of the discussion and your apparent conservative leanings, it is obvious that everyone would take that as the intended meaning.

What could you have done in response to the reply? You could have said "No, I wasn't talking just about Obama. That's what I get for not being more specific."

Instead you take a move right out of the Schnoogs playbook, and try to blame everybody else for misunderstanding you and even append it with a snarky "fail" comment.

So no, it's not a partisan assumption fail, it's a "didn't bother to make himself clear in the first damned place" fail if anything.
Someone missed the joke, I see. And right on the heels of someone getting defensive for no reason.

The teleprompter comment was a weak dig at something that is a NON-issue on both sides. If you seriously think I'm going to come into a thread like this with something as lame as the played-out teleprompter accusation, and then try to defend myself in earnest...well, let's just say I shouldn't have thrown a cold cut with mustard to hungry dogs.

[Zero]

Typically speaking, the P&R forums here are actually pretty good. But lately it's been a leftard fest. It's likely the absence of certain members causing this, but even so, it kinda blows. We need more conservatards to balance things out.

It's always a leftard fest. But, in a way that reminds me of the townhall meetings, we'd have 1 member come in here and scream "You lie!" at everybody else. If you want a crazy right fest you should go to the Evil Avatar boards. They're the bizarro P&R Arena. Only 1 lefty amongst the bunch. At least it was the last time I checked.

[Ultima Thulian]

It's always a leftard fest. But, in a way that reminds me of the townhall meetings, we'd have 1 member come in here and scream "You lie!" at everybody else. If you want a crazy right fest you should go to the Evil Avatar boards. They're the bizarro P&R Arena. Only 1 lefty amongst the bunch. At least it was the last time I checked.

I check the EvAv political boards at times, just for cheap lulz. They're bad. Yea, lately our own political boards have become one sided, but I'd argue that at least they're still mostly civil and enjoyable. Just not as much. My main gripe is that some posters are so goddamn predictable. I already know their opinion on the matter before it's even said. It used to be a bit more varied than that. Oh well.

[ShivaX]

I check the EvAv political boards at times, just for cheap lulz. They're bad. Yea, lately our own political boards have become one sided, but I'd argue that at least they're still mostly civil and enjoyable. Just not as much. My main gripe is that some posters are so goddamn predictable. I already know their opinion on the matter before it's even said. It used to be a bit more varied than that. Oh well.

It really depends on the issue as far as I've seen.

The problem in politics right now is that the right is going so far out there that pretty much everyone disagrees with their talking points. The left has always had its wingnuts, but overall they've never gotten much coverage or credibility. Right now the far right seems to be setting the tone for discourse for some reason in this country.

If so much of the crap we heard on a daily basis wasn't blantant bullshit it would be one thing. Instead all we tend to hear from the right is parrotting of the extremes like Beck and Limbaugh instead of real ideas and discussion on anything. Then again the GOP has no compass right now as far as I can tell. All they do is sit around and say no to everything at this point without offering any real solutions.

With the Dems getting so many moderates in their ranks, at this rate it wont be long before the Democratic primary becomes a defacto election in most states.

[Ultima Thulian]

No arguments here, other than the Dems are rather fond of saying "No!" as well. The fact we have a completely Dem ruled government at this time and Obama still can get much shit done proves this.

Right now, the Reps are in desperation mode. They are outnumbered and outclassed, and won't have a chance to regain power until 2012. As such, they're gonna be as loud and crude as possible to gain whatever inch they can. However, it is arguably backfiring on them.

[ShivaX]

No arguments here, other than the Dems are rather fond of saying "No!" as well. The fact we have a completely Dem ruled government at this time and Obama still can get much shit done proves this.

Right now, the Reps are in desperation mode. They are outnumbered and outclassed, and won't have a chance to regain power until 2012. As such, they're gonna be as loud and crude as possible to gain whatever inch they can. However, it is arguably backfiring on them.

They could regain power in 2010 if they actually had ideas and were rational.

The Dems I think are basically taking the reins and playing the whole game within the party. The left wing wants certain things and the moderates want other things so they're debating and compromising on different aspects. The Republicans will just say no to anything that they produce anyway, so its really gotten to the point that theres no reason to bother to include them in the discussion at this point.

[Ink Asylum]

John Derbyshire, conservative author and National Review columnist talking to Alan Colmes. (http://thinkprogress.org/2009/09/30/derbyshire-female-suffrage/)

COLMES: What is the case against female suffrage?

DERBYSHIRE: The conservative case against it is that women lean hard to the left. They want someone to nurture, they want someone to help raise their kids, and if men aren’t inclined to do it — and in the present days, they’re not much — then they’d like the state to do it for them.

DERBYSHIRE: Among the hopes that I do not realistically nurse is the hope that female suffrage will be repealed. But I’ll say this – if it were to be, I wouldn’t lose a minute’s sleep.

COLMES: We’d be a better country if women didn’t vote?

DERBYSHIRE: Probably. Don’t you think so?

COLMES: No, I do not think so whatsoever.

DERBYSHIRE: Come on Alan. Come clean here [laughing].

COLMES: We would be a better country? John Derbyshire making the statement, we would be a better country if women did not vote.

DERBYSHIRE: Yeah, probably.

Got that, ladies? You shouldn't be allowed to vote because conservative men like Derbyshire don't like the way you vote. You know who leans harder left than women? Blacks. I'll bet Derbyshire wouldn't lose a minute's sleep if they lost the right to vote, too.

What I find most interesting is how Derbyshire needles Colmes. "Come clean here." He's so convinced that other men agree with him but they just won't admit it. Because, women, what a buncha nurturing idiots, am I right, guys?

[boratika]

Wow. That's just...


...wow...

[Generation ABXY]

Holy crap, I've actually had a conversation just like that and I thought I'd never hear such an argument again. Granted, this is only two people (so far), but that's still two too many in my opinion.

[Ink Asylum]

Ann Coulter has made similar remarks. I'm sure plenty of other people feel the same way. There are definitely a frightful number of conservatives who only like democracy when their side wins. Check out this guy. John L. Perry, a weekly columnist at the conservative site NewsMax for the past decade posted his as his column. (http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/news/2009/09/full_text_of_newsmax_column_suggesting_military_co .php?ref=fpblg)

There is a remote, although gaining, possibility America's military will intervene as a last resort to resolve the "Obama problem." Don't dismiss it as unrealistic.

America isn't the Third World. If a military coup does occur here it will be civilized. That it has never happened doesn't mean it wont. Describing what may be afoot is not to advocate it.

...

Will the day come when patriotic general and flag officers sit down with the president, or with those who control him, and work out the national equivalent of a "family intervention," with some form of limited, shared responsibility?

Imagine a bloodless coup to restore and defend the Constitution through an interim administration that would do the serious business of governing and defending the nation. Skilled, military-trained, nation-builders would replace accountability-challenged, radical-left commissars. Having bonded with his twin teleprompters, the president would be detailed for ceremonial speech-making.

Military intervention is what Obama's exponentially accelerating agenda for "fundamental change" toward a Marxist state is inviting upon America. A coup is not an ideal option, but Obama's radical ideal is not acceptable or reversible.

Unthinkable? Then think up an alternative, non-violent solution to the Obama problem. Just don't shrug and say, "We can always worry about that later."

In the 2008 election, that was the wistful, self-indulgent, indifferent reliance on abnegation of personal responsibility that has sunk the nation into this morass.

NewsMax has since pulled down the column and tried to distance themselves from a columnist they have prominently featured for years, which is why the link goes to TalkingPointsMemo's copy.

To him, less than a year into the Obama Presidency he is such a threat to the very fabric of America that the only option may be a military coup. Not trying to win future elections, because those sheeple might not vote the way Perry likes, but a military insurrection. Obama wins a larger majority than many recent presidents and continues to have majority support from the public, but he might do things conservatives don't like so time for the military to completely break down the fabric of our government. Awesome.

[Generation ABXY]

I don't know much about Coulter, but she is (at least ostensibly) a woman, correct?

[Ink Asylum]

Yep. A self-hating woman, perhaps. (http://www.rawstory.com/news/2007/Coulter_If_we_took_away_womens_1003.html)

COULTER: If we took away women's right to vote, we'd never have to worry about another Democrat president. It's kind of a pipe dream, it's a personal fantasy of mine, but I don't think it's going to happen. And it is a good way of making the point that women are voting so stupidly, at least single women.

It also makes the point, it is kind of embarrassing, the Democratic Party ought to be hanging its head in shame, that it has so much difficulty getting men to vote for it. I mean, you do see it’s the party of women and 'We’ll pay for health care and tuition and day care -- and here, what else can we give you, soccer moms?'

Women voting Democratic means women are stupid. The Democratic Party should be ashamed that it can't get more men to vote for them, because apparently women voters are inferior.

[Kelegacy]

If I was a lesser person, I'd call Ann Coulter an ugly whore.

But I'm better than that. She just has a really small brain.

[Serapth]

If I was a lesser person, I'd call Ann Coulter an ugly whore.

But I'm better than that. She just has a really small brain.

Isn't kinda silly to call a dude a whore?

[Ultima Thulian]

I wish I had a small brain that allowed me to manipulate conservatards and earn millions of dollars for saying insipid shit once or twice a month.

As for women's suffrage, I am only reminded of the Man Show prank. I wish I could find a vid of that. But still...really dumb of Derbyshire nonetheless.

[Ultima Thulian]

Isn't kinda silly to call a dude a whore?

No.


edit: Besides, Ann Coulter is technically the offspring of a mutated giraffe. Look at her fucking neck...it's huge!

[Kelegacy]

As for women's suffrage, I am only reminded of the Man Show prank. I wish I could find a vid of that.

That was both funny and sad.

[Vigil80]

We've gotten around to Coulter hate? This thread's really got it all. I think war for oil is one of the only bullet points left, and we'll be ready for the textbooks.

[Crowe]

What the fuck is wrong it these people.

[Ultima Thulian]

We've gotten around to Coulter hate? This thread's really got it all. I think war for oil is one of the only bullet points left, and we'll be ready for the textbooks.

Well, in defense, Coulter is a cuntdork.

[Vigil80]

Your wordsmithing has instantly convinced me.

[boratika]

We've gotten around to Coulter hate? This thread's really got it all. I think war for oil is one of the only bullet points left, and we'll be ready for the textbooks.

Come on now. Everyone knows that war was all about fulfilling biblical prophecy (http://www.secularhumanism.org/index.php?section=library&page=haught_29_5). :D

[Ink Asylum]

We've gotten around to Coulter hate? This thread's really got it all. I think war for oil is one of the only bullet points left, and we'll be ready for the textbooks.

If conservatives stop saying moronic things we'll have no more need for this thread. I think it's preferable to having a new thread crop up every time a mainstream conservative ponders a military coup, or whether we should end women's suffrage. This is the "Humanity Is Screwed Up" thread of P&R.

[Dorkandproudofit]

It gets weirder... (http://news.aol.com/article/a-years-worth-of-conservative-women/696972?icid=main|htmlws-main|dl4|link2|http%3A%2F%2Fnews.aol.com%2Farticle %2Fa-years-worth-of-conservative-women%2F696972#)

[txshurricane]

If conservatives stop saying moronic things we'll have no more need for this thread.
Bahahahahaha!

I had to laugh. Sorry.

[BlackPete]

Bahahahahaha!

I had to laugh. Sorry.

Indeed. When will conservatives like McCain and his ilk stop damaging the GOP brand, and let Limbaugh, Beck, and Palin take over? (http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009/10/limbaugh-blasts-schmidts-palin-bashing-mccain-crowd-has-done-enough-damage-to-gop.php?ref=dcblt)

I think it's time for the McCain crowd to acknowledge they are losers and pack it in. They've done enough damage to the Republican Party. Move aside and let a brighter, more principled, and more competent generation of people clean up the mess they helped create.

[fitbabits]

Bahahahahaha!

I had to laugh. Sorry.
Oddly enough that's what the majority of Americans have been doing where the Republican Party is concerned. :eek:

[Adam Blue]

If conservatives stop saying moronic things we'll have no more need for this thread.

Or, we can keep it going by posting moronic things that any politician says...but I guess there's no room for that here, huh? :eek:

[Ink Asylum]

No one's stopping anyone from starting a "Do Liberals realize how moronic they sound?" thread.

[BlackPete]

Holy rambling, Batman:

qm_adM-14K4

[boratika]

Holy rambling, Batman:

I have no idea what he was trying to say, but at least he Godwined his own speech.

[Dorkandproudofit]

Now they're accusing Astro Boy of being a communist film.

Source (http://insidemovies.moviefone.com/2009/10/08/astro-boy-battle-for-terra-left-leaning-animated-films?icid=main|htmlws-main|dl2|link3|http%3A%2F%2Finsidemovies.moviefone .com%2F2009%2F10%2F08%2Fastro-boy-battle-for-terra-left-leaning-animated-films)

[Ultima Thulian]

So what's wrong with the article?

[Widgetcraft]

Ugh... my guild on my new WoW server is great, but there is this one hick from Alabama who, at least once a day, brings up how pissed off he is that "Obama is selling us out to Iran!"

First thing I thought of was this topic title.

[txshurricane]

No one's stopping anyone from starting a "Do Liberals realize how moronic they sound?" thread.
I keep thinking back on this, and the only thing that I can say is that I'm thankful that there isn't one. I think it's a testament to the classiness of our CoG conservatives that a topic like that isn't a part of our daily reading.

[TheKeck]

I keep thinking back on this, and the only thing that I can say is that I'm thankful that there isn't one. I think it's a testament to the classiness of our CoG conservatives that a topic like that isn't a part of our daily reading.
Yep, all seven of us. ;)

[Ultima Thulian]

Is it bad that I wanna start one, just to piss TX off? Probably is. :D

Liberals? MOAR LIEK COMMIES AMIRITE??!!111!1one.

[fitbabits]

I keep thinking back on this, and the only thing that I can say is that I'm thankful that there isn't one. I think it's a testament to the classiness of our CoG conservatives that a topic like that isn't a part of our daily reading.
If that's what helps you sleep at night, then good for you.

[Generation ABXY]

If that's what helps you sleep at night, then good for you.

Wait, did you just insult all the conservatives here? That's real nice, fits! :p

Personally, I'm just amazed the liberals here could start a thread without government intervention. ;)

[boratika]

Personally, I'm just amazed the liberals here could start a thread without government intervention. ;)

No, you got it all wrong, they were able to start the thread due to a government bailout.

[Ink Asylum]

So what's wrong with the article?

Not much. It reaches at times to label movies as "leftist," (The characters in 9 use their "collective power," I guess any movie where characters team up is communist?). This quote is telling, though:

Early summer's 'Battle for Terra,' concerning a peace-loving, nature-worshipping alien race attacked by warmongering humans seeking more land, seemingly employs a ripped-from-the-headlines style of dialogue to enunciate its message. "We need information on the enemy's strengths and numbers. This machine might hold the answer," says one human interrogator to an alien as he prods a captured robot. "So ask him," replies the alien. "Don't torture him."

I hope the right is proud. Torture is now enshrined as a conservative value, and merely asking someone not to do it is "leftist."

[txshurricane]

If that's what helps you sleep at night, then good for you.
Zing! :D
Seriously, though: I don't get much sleep during the week, on account of having to board ships that arrive all hours of the day and night. When I do get to sleep, what would help more than not having a thread at CoG would be knowing where the huge chunk taken from my hard-earned money was going. Of course, that's moronic to say here...how would the illegal aliens get food stamps for their malt liquor if I weren't out there losing sleep? ;)

[alienmastermind]

I keep thinking back on this, and the only thing that I can say is that I'm thankful that there isn't one. I think it's a testament to the classiness of our CoG conservatives that a topic like that isn't a part of our daily reading.

Well, point out the liberals who are making the Dems look like retards, and I'll be happy to comment. Glenn Beck aligns himself with Republicrats, and they accept him for who he is, warts and all...screamin' weepy bastich intimates he'd like a revolution, then creeps back into his hole when someone following his crazy rants blows some innocent prick away?

Yeah, let's talk class.

TX, I like you man, but if you want to put your crazies up against the Democratic crazies, you're going to find that the craziest thing on our side of the fence, is going to be someone saying they want the super-wealthy to pay for everything.

Your side has people thinking the President of the United States is not an American Born Citizen, even though there's plenty of evidence to make them seem insane....or willfully ignorant...or just plain stupid.

There are Republicans I respect. There are Republicans I would vote for. The guys doing all the talking for that side, and the guys the Repubs seem to be taking their cues from? Seem to be fools.

[Ultima Thulian]

See, that kinda generalization pisses me off. You make it out as if all Republicans have some sorta hardon for crazies like Glenn Beck. When they do not. For example:

http://news.aol.com/article/the-point-lindsey-graham-rips-glenn-beck/700565

What more do you want? You got who is arguably THE senate republican trying to denounce Glenn Beck as a cynic. I mean, they can't stop these stupid bastards from speaking or doing their dumbass little shows. You'll also note that he takes a shot at birthers as well.

"Knock this crap off." Indeed senator, indeed.

[Ultima Thulian]

One more thing: It took me exactly 1.5 fucking seconds to find that. Meaning finding prominent Reps who hate Glenn Beck, birthers, etc., are not hard to find. I don't align myself with any party, but lets get fucking real folks. Sweet deep fried Jesus on a stick.

[txshurricane]

Well, point out the liberals who are making the Dems look like retards, and I'll be happy to comment. Glenn Beck aligns himself with Republicrats, and they accept him for who he is, warts and all...screamin' weepy bastich intimates he'd like a revolution, then creeps back into his hole when someone following his crazy rants blows some innocent prick away?

Yeah, let's talk class.

TX, I like you man, but if you want to put your crazies up against the Democratic crazies, you're going to find that the craziest thing on our side of the fence, is going to be someone saying they want the super-wealthy to pay for everything.

Your side has people thinking the President of the United States is not an American Born Citizen, even though there's plenty of evidence to make them seem insane....or willfully ignorant...or just plain stupid.

There are Republicans I respect. There are Republicans I would vote for. The guys doing all the talking for that side, and the guys the Repubs seem to be taking their cues from? Seem to be fools.
Wait a sec...I didn't say anything about Republicans or Democrats, and neither does the title of the thread.

I don't mean to discredit your points by not directly responding, but I don't have a response to the whole Dem/Repub issue.

Also: I hate Glenn Beck. Give me Joe Pags over Glenn Beck any day.

[Generation ABXY]

Well, point out the liberals who are making the Dems look like retards, and I'll be happy to comment.

Um, how about all of them? I might remind you that the Democrats have a filibuster-proof majority and still can’t pass anything but the buck. And I suppose it’s no use pointing out to President Obama that this all wasn’t just dropped on his lap and he actually campaigned on being able to fix the mistakes of the last administration (and beyond), so that excuse is running a little thin. Hell, he hasn’t even repealed Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell, and that would take little more than a stroke of his god-damned pen.

See, that kinda generalization pisses me off. You make it out as if all Republicans have some sorta hardon for crazies like Glenn Beck. When they do not. For example:

http://news.aol.com/article/the-point-lindsey-graham-rips-glenn-beck/700565

What more do you want? You got who is arguably THE senate republican trying to denounce Glenn Beck as a cynic. I mean, they can't stop these stupid bastards from speaking or doing their dumbass little shows. You'll also note that he takes a shot at birthers as well.

"Knock this crap off." Indeed senator, indeed.

When it comes to the so-called crazies, I think it is a case of the few and the loud. As you said (and as I know I've said in the past), there's not much we can do to stop these people from saying what they want - I'm kind of a stickler for Constitutionally protected rights.

[alienmastermind]

One more thing: It took me exactly 1.5 fucking seconds to find that. Meaning finding prominent Reps who hate Glenn Beck, birthers, etc., are not hard to find. I don't align myself with any party, but lets get fucking real folks. Sweet deep fried Jesus on a stick.

Sure. There's a guy or two that thinks Glenn Beck is off his rocker. But my point is that he does paint his side as a bunch of sycophantic numbnuts when guys like himself and Rush say ridiculous shit, and when guys like your example or the leader of the Republican party say that it's ridiculous, they're instantly fawning all over themselves the second either man starts hammering away at them.

To TX - Well, I apologize for assuming 'Conservative' equals Republican...especially when the 'Conservatives' being mentioned are SERIOUSLY anti-Democrat. You're right, they could be Whigs, I suppose.

:)

[BlackPete]

The GOP needs more people like Joe Scarborough and Lindsey Graham, and less like Michelle Bachman and Michael Steele.

Who gives a rat's ass what Glenn Beck says, and let's worry about the ones who are actually in a position of power.

[ShivaX]

Who gives a rat's ass what Glenn Beck says, and let's worry about the ones who are actually in a position of power.

Well the problem is that the ones in power seem to care quite a lot about what people like Glenn Beck are saying.

[Slack3r78]

One more thing: It took me exactly 1.5 fucking seconds to find that. Meaning finding prominent Reps who hate Glenn Beck, birthers, etc., are not hard to find. I don't align myself with any party, but lets get fucking real folks. Sweet deep fried Jesus on a stick.
It's not like people are just dreaming up this coziness between between the raving right and the Republican establishment. I mean, we're less than a year past the nominal head of the Republican party sticking his tail between his legs and apologizing to Rush Limbaugh for suggesting that Rush's rhetoric is inflammatory and counter-productive.

The GOP needs more people like Joe Scarborough and Lindsey Graham, and less like Michelle Bachman and Michael Steele.
If more of the GOP would listen to Joe Scarborough, they'd be a party worth respecting again.

[Hemalin]

Those crazy Muslims are at it again. Now they are trying to infiltrate the government.

Don't worry though, some GOP House members are on it. (http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2009/10/15/investigation/index.html)
Rep. Sue Myrick, North Carolina Republican, cited an internal January 2007 memo in which the Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR) discussed placing Muslim interns on Capitol Hill to "focus on influencing congressmen responsible for policy that directly impacts the American Muslim community."The idea that there are groups out there that are intent on influencing government policy by such despicable means is absolutely scary. Surely now that this organization has been exposed, we can ensure that no other such advocacy groups can ever influence congressmen again.

Our government may now be safe but there are fears that the USA has already been infiltrated by other means.
In remarks about domestic security threats, Rep. Sue Myrick of Charlotte said, "Look at who runs all the convenience stores across the country". . .

[Slack3r78]

Ah, how ironic that I decided to watch Good Night and Good Luck again earlier tonight.

[ShivaX]

Seemed relevant to the whole discussion.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/politico/20091022/pl_politico/28589

Many top Republicans are growing worried that the party’s chances for reversing its electoral routs of 2006 and 2008 are being wounded by the flamboyant rhetoric and angry tone of conservative activists and media personalities, according to interviews with GOP officials and operatives.

The only Republicans standing up to Beck and other conservative activists right now are familiar iconoclasts like Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-S.C.) and New York Times columnist David Brooks — both of whom are distrusted by many Republicans for their frequent departures from conservative orthodoxy.

Graham, earlier this month, mocked Beck’s famous on-air cry and warned that the Fox News talk show host is “not aligned with any party as far as I can tell. He’s aligned with cynicism.” Not long afterward, he was heckled by conservatives at a political event back home.

Brooks, a Republican who has written both favorably and critically about Obama, amplified Graham’s concern with the party’s obsequious relationship with Beck and Limbaugh. “It is a story of remarkable volume and utter weakness,” he wrote. “It is a story as old as ‘The Wizard of Oz,’ of grand illusions and small men behind the curtain.”


On the other hand, the party’s image more broadly remains in the dumps. An ABC News/Washington Post poll this week found that only 20 percent of those surveyed consider themselves Republicans. A larger study by the Pew Research Center this spring captured a similar trend: The share of independents in the electorate is the highest in 70 years (36 percent), while the share of voters who call themselves Republicans is the lowest in 30 years (23 percent, compared with 35 percent for Democrats).

[Ink Asylum]

Poll: Majority Of Republicans Think Obama Didn't Actually Win 2008 Election -- ACORN Stole It! (http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009/11/poll-gop-base-thinks-obama-didnt-actually-win-2008-election----acorn-stole-it.php)

The poll asked this question: "Do you think that Barack Obama legitimately won the Presidential election last year, or do you think that ACORN stole it for him?" The overall top-line is legitimately won 62%, ACORN stole it 26%.

Among Republicans, however, only 27% say Obama actually won the race, with 52% -- an outright majority -- saying that ACORN stole it, and 21% are undecided. Among McCain voters, the breakdown is 31%-49%-20%. By comparison, independents weigh in at 72%-18%-10%, and Democrats are 86%-9%-4%.

Looks like Glenn Beck's rantings about ACORN have gotten through to the base. It's stunning that one fourth of the population doesn't believe Obama actually won the election last year.