Building my first PC

[crispy951]

I posted this over on Immortal Machines, because that is more the place for it, but it hasn't seen much traffic so I figured I'd post it here.

Need suggestions on if what I've picked out will work with everything else, if I'm buying the best stuff for my dollar and so on.

Got about a $1000 budget on this build.

I will be running it on Vista 64 bit with 8GBs of RAM.

DVD Burner (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?item=N82E16827136149)
Harddrive (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136218)
RAM (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231166)
Processor (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115036)
Powersupply (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817182032)
Graphics Card (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814121257)
Motherboard (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128344)

Case (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811119047)

[Wraith]

Why 8GB of RAM?

For a $1000 build, I'd consider spending more on the case and power supply. Maybe a third-party CPU cooling solution.

[crispy951]

I had heard that from someone. What is recommended? 3? 4? I'm just going from things that I've picked up, so any suggestions/comments are welcome. Any suggestions for case powersupply?

[axion]

Also I think the 4870 trumps the 260 in the performance department, and is around the same price.

[crispy951]

Also I think the 4870 trumps the 260 in the performance department, and is around the same price.

I'm assuming you're talking about the graphics card? If so is the 4870 a Radeon?

EDIT: This thing? (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814127370)

[Wraith]

I had heard that from someone. What is recommended? 3? 4? I'm just going from things that I've picked up, so any suggestions/comments are welcome. Any suggestions for case powersupply?For the RAM... I really don't think there's much benefit in going over 4GB, unless you're doing some really heavy rendering, or hosting virtual server instances or something. I don't think it's going to get you much as far as gaming's concerned. I'd say just get that 2x2GB pair you've got picked out (or something similar), and if in the future, you find out you actually have a use for more than 4GB, you can just add another pair.

But then the systems I use regularly only have 2GB (home desktop, work desktop) or 2.5GB (laptop).

As for case and power supply... I like Antec and Corsair, though they're certainly not the only good brands out there. I'm using a 520W modular Corsair PSU, and its big brother the 620 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139002) is $125 after rebate. Seasonic is also a good brand (those two Corsair models are actually Seasonics, underneath). I re-built my system over a year ago, so I haven't been following the latest components as closely... I'm sure others here will have good suggestions.

[KingGorilla]

I have to strongly encourage you to either just get Vista 32Bit, or get one of the upgraded releases with both 32Bit and 64Bit in the box. There is no reason to have 64 right now, most software will work fine, others will be inexplicably bug ridden. The drivers for that release are immature, and the development focus is still on 32 bit from the big players in hardware and software. There is sparse software designed for a 64bit os, and only 2 games that I can think of have support(Crysis and Far Cry). Ther will be a time for you to run a 64 bit OS, but now is not it.

Second, save for people planning on running a myriad of intensive programs, like video encoding, while playing a game, while streaming a hi def movie, 2 Gigabytes is more than enough memory at this time. If you are unhappy, you could throw in 2 more, but your system will only have 3.5 GB available(blame Bill Gates, it is his fault entirely). I doubt you would notice any real difference anyway, save for those sorts of major uses.

For a case you want to have a minimum of 3 fans, one in front, one in back, one in the middle or side(that is where your chip set and Processor Exhaust will go out). That does not mean you need to get a case with that many included, you can buy more, but make sure that the case supports that many, or that you have a drill handy. More fans means less noise, as they will not have to run as fast with more fans doing the work, and smoother usage. Also the bigger the better, larger fans can move slower to move air, so less noise and more effeciency.

http://www.tomshardware.com/charts/gaming-graphics-charts-q3-2008/benchmarks,30.html

I would like to discourage getting the top of the line GPU. Prices fall fast, and what was 300 dollars will be half that in 6 months to a year. And when it comes to nVidia, as a general rule don't go for the "6" in a product line. But as it stands now, the difference between the 260, 280 and something like the 4870 or 3870 from ATI is not much in regard to performance, but a big difference in price. That is not to mention differences if you were to go for something in the 8000 line.
Also you need to consider the monitor size. I am a sucker with a big monitor, so I am stuck with having to buy more highly priced video cards, more often. If you are with a typical 1280X960 that many people have, you will not face the same problem.
I tend to suggest, getting the best video card that you can for under 200 bucks, and see if you need an upgrade in a couple of years. Because there are worse things than spending 150 bucks every 2 years, than dropping 300-400 and seeing that you still need to upgrade after the same time.

That brings me to my last point. NEVER, EVER spend extra money thinking that you can "future proof" a PC. The platform is designed to be modular and upgradeable. Nothing you buy today will be more expensive tomorrow. Memory will be less expensive 6 months down the road, a video card will be less expensive.

[Wraith]

For a case you want to have a minimum of 3 fans, one in front, one in back, one in the middle or side(that is where your chip set and Processor Exhaust will go out). That does not mean you need to get a case with that many included, you can buy more, but make sure that the case supports that many, or that you have a drill handy. More fans means less noise, as they will not have to run as fast with more fans doing the work, and smoother usage....provided those fans are throttled correctly.

My system doesn't have a side exhaust fan, just:
120mm intake fan
120mm exhaust fan
120mm fan on the big CPU heatsink
120mm fan in the power supply
and a fan on the graphics card

[KingGorilla]

I forgot to add. I suggest making sure that you get an Energy Star certified PSU. They run more effeciently, and you will save money on the power bill.

[crispy951]

Dropping down to just 1 set of the memory and I'm thinking of switching the video card to this (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814127370) and my PSU to this (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139005)

I can get the OS for cheap being a college student, so I'll go with whatever one is best recommended.

[squirrelTactics]

There is no reason to have 64 right now

Unless you want all 4 gigs of RAM recognized by your OS...

[Wraith]

Dropping down to just 1 set of the memory and I'm thinking of switching the video card to this (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814127370) and my PSU to this (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139005)

I can get the OS for cheap being a college student, so I'll go with whatever one is best recommended.If you're talking super-dirt-cheap, you could just as well go with Vista Ultimate. If not, Vista Home Premium seems to be the most common choice, for those who aren't sticking it out with XP.

[KingGorilla]

Check out that link I gave to the video card benchmarks. And click on the games that YOU like to play under the resolution closest to your monitor. You will notice that games with lost of open spaces, games like Oblivion or an RTS, perform better with ATI cards generally, and games that are fairly limited, like shooters or Mass Effect, tend to perform better with an Nvidia card.

Keep in mind that SLI and CF(Crossfire) set-ups are for multiple video card configurations.

Unless you want all 4 gigs of RAM recognized by your OS...
But as I said, the trade off with less reliability, less stability, and almost no supported software, does not make up for the increased memory capability. There are situations where you would want a 64 bit OS, to get extra supported RAM is not a good one. It's a bit like buying an Electric or ethanol car, yeah it will run, but you are not going far yet.

[crispy951]

Changed my PSU to Cosair (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?item=N82E16817139005)

and my card to a Radeon (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?item=N82E16814127370)

Don't know if it will be playing well with the MOBO (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?item=N82E16813128344) and memory (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?item=N82E16820231166).

And I hear Antec's 900 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?item=N82E16811129021) is very popular.

Oh and my monitor is 1680x1050 max resolution, if that's something that will affect what graphics card I get.

[KingGorilla]

For the memory, see if the MoBo manufacturer web site has a recommended set. It means that they have tested that with the board, and it works.

[crispy951]

If the MOBO says it takes DDR2 and the RAM says it's DDR2, that's what I'm looking for compatibility wise right?

[muddi900]

There are also speed standards. For ddr2, the fastest is 1066MHz or 1200MHz(if I remember correctly). They will work even if Mobo doesn't go that high, they are backwards compatible, but they are more expensive than DDR2 800.

[Grifter]

That RAM will work just fine with that MOBO (great RAM as well).

If your native resolution is 1680x1050 I would recommend getting the 4870 or sticking with the GTX260 unless you don't mind playing upcoming games on lower settings.

I have been using Vista 64 for almost 2 years now and have yet to have any issues and most of my games run better under Vista with 4GB than they do in XP with 3.2.

When building a new PC you need to find that balance between building for the future and if money is an issue buying smart, right now the best performance for the price (especially if your gaming at 1680x1050 or above) is either the 4870 or the 260, personally I prefer the 260. While the 4850 is a good card it is on the low end of the performance chart and you will need to upgrade sooner so even though it is cheaper you will end up paying the same price (or more) in the long run by buying the 4850 now and then buying the 4870 later (even if it is cheaper) than you would just grabbing the 4870 (or 260) now and enjoying it for twice as long.

[Spectre-7]

http://www.anandtech.com/casecoolingpsus/showdoc.aspx?i=3413

A nice little article on PSUs that you might find helpful.

[Ancalagon]

I have to strongly encourage you to either just get Vista 32Bit, or get one of the upgraded releases with both 32Bit and 64Bit in the box. There is no reason to have 64 right now, most software will work fine, others will be inexplicably bug ridden. The drivers for that release are immature, and the development focus is still on 32 bit from the big players in hardware and software. There is sparse software designed for a 64bit os, and only 2 games that I can think of have support(Crysis and Far Cry). Ther will be a time for you to run a 64 bit OS, but now is not it.

Second, save for people planning on running a myriad of intensive programs, like video encoding, while playing a game, while streaming a hi def movie, 2 Gigabytes is more than enough memory at this time. If you are unhappy, you could throw in 2 more, but your system will only have 3.5 GB available(blame Bill Gates, it is his fault entirely). I doubt you would notice any real difference anyway, save for those sorts of major uses.

I disagree entirely. 64 bit isnt any less reliable or supported - if driver makers want their drivers to be WHQL certified, they need to produce 32 and 64 bit software. So you wont have any more drivers issues with 64 bit than with 32 bit, I certainly havent. If you want no driver issues, get Windows XP. Vista 32 will have the same driver issues as 64.

As for software compatibility, I havent had any problems either. I run games as old as Diablo II and Baldurs Gate 2, and they both work fine, as does Dosbox for DOS emulation. Anything newer never runs with any problems, and as I said you are more likely to have problems with Vista as a whole than with Vista 64. Yes, not many programs are designed for 64 bit, but that doesnt mean they run worse in running on a 64 bit OS. With a 32 bit OS, you have no option to use 64 bit software at all. With a 64 bit OS, you can use both, at the same time, with no drawbacks.

As for RAM usage - I'd advise 4GBs. RAM usage increeases all the time, its the cheapest thing to upgrade, and you really dont want to be behind the curve. Nothing irritates me more than having to wait while my computer pages out to virtual memory if I need to alt tab or something, and having 4GBs of RAM makes that happen less often.

In summary, as I see it, 64 bit has no drawbacks at all, although I'll admit it offers little in the way of improvements besides extra memory. I find the extra memory useful, I'm glad I got 64 bit so that when I upgraded to 4GBs, I didnt need to reinstall my OS.

But as I said, the trade off with less reliability, less stability, and almost no supported software

Are you thinking of the same 64 bit as I am? I've never ever had a piece of software say "64 bit detected, no worky" and my computer is stable as a rock with all of its DIMM slots occupied (although I did have to up the voltage from undervolting my RAM to its recommended voltage level (it was from 1.8V to 2.1V if I remember correctly)).

[KingGorilla]

No need to get butt-hurt on it guys, just giving my 2 cents.

Grifter really cannot compare memory performance under XP and Vista, it is a completely different codebase. Vista with 2Gigs will be an improvement over 3.2 in XP by virtue of how it prioritizes applications and loads the memory full, rather than always going from hard drive, to processor, to memory each time you open and close a program.

[Ancalagon]

No need to get butt-hurt on it guys, just giving my 2 cents.

Grifter really cannot compare memory performance under XP and Vista, it is a completely different codebase. Vista with 2Gigs will be an improvement over 3.2 in XP by virtue of how it prioritizes applications and loads the memory full, rather than always going from hard drive, to processor, to memory each time you open and close a program.

Nobody is butt hurt, we just disagree that 64 bit has any issues at all.

Yeah, Vista's memory management is decent, but I'm still glad I have my 4GBs, it is worth having as games get bigger. Memory optimization can only help so much, eventually you run into applications, or combinations of applications, that are too big to fit into memory at once.

[crispy951]

Thanks for all the input guys I appreciate it. I think I'm about finalized on what I'm going to get.

After consideration I think I'll be going with this (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814133229) Graphics card and this (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811129042) case. If anyone sees any problems with those choices, please let me know.

[itchyeyes]

Thanks for all the input guys I appreciate it. I think I'm about finalized on what I'm going to get.

After consideration I think I'll be going with this (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814133229) Graphics card and this (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811129042) case. If anyone sees any problems with those choices, please let me know.
Looks good to me. I like the Antec 300 as a budget case. It ought to be a nice easy build.

[KingGorilla]

Looks like you can mount a couple of extra fans in front of the drive bays. I am also a fan of Antec, one because they do not exclusively make cases full of LEDs like others do, and they tend to not shove a crappy PSU down your throat.

Pro tip, to cut down on dust. Wrap the fans in a lady's Nylon, rather tightly. You can screw right through the material and it will still hold. Great, cheap, and reliable way to filter out all sorts of crap.

I am making a fresh build, I may bookmark that case.

[Harv]

I've been using Vista 64 since January of this year and have yet to have any issues with running any software especially games new or old. I've loaded up the original Fallout from 1998ish without any issues as well as things like Starcraft and had no problems. On the other side I've been playing World in Conflict, Supreme Commander and Company of Heroes without any issues.

I'm running 4gb of RAM and I think it's more than enough for desktop use. 8GB would definitely be overkill. I have yet to tap anything close to 4gb even running the above games.

I think the only thing I've had an issue with was the VPN client my company uses wasn't 64bit compatible.

[crispy951]

Pro tip, to cut down on dust. Wrap the fans in a lady's Nylon, rather tightly. You can screw right through the material and it will still hold. Great, cheap, and reliable way to filter out all sorts of crap.

I am making a fresh build, I may bookmark that case.

So like buy a pair of pantyhose and wrap them around my fans??? :eek: Lol I guess if it works than that is a cheap way to keep that crap out.

[Disgustipated]

Get the Radeon 4870 1 GB. Best GPU for the money today.

[KingGorilla]

So like buy a pair of pantyhose and wrap them around my fans??? :eek: Lol I guess if it works than that is a cheap way to keep that crap out.

Right over the whole housing, and screw it right in.

[Wackman3000]

Pro tip, to cut down on dust. Wrap the fans in a lady's Nylon, rather tightly. You can screw right through the material and it will still hold. Great, cheap, and reliable way to filter out all sorts of crap.

That is a fantastic idea sir and one I will definitely implement the next time I do maintenance on the rig. :)

[KingGorilla]

You look a trifle weird buying the hosiery, but a lady in your life probably has some older ones she may wish to part with.

And I cannot take full credit for that as I heard the tip from Robert Heron.

And given how expensive it can be to buy compressed air, it helps a lot.

[Crittias]

http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,2845,2330579,00.asp

Very similar build to the one you're planning. I'd say you get their vote of approval.