[GoW2] Enhanced Flashback Map Pack Available for Free at Launch

[fitbabits]

And the incentives for buying Gears of War 2 continue... This time it's in the form of an enhanced map pack featuring five of the most popular multiplayer maps from the original Gears of War.

Everyone who purchases a copy of Gears of War 2 will receive an Xbox LIVE token to download the Flashback Map Pack for FREE. The Flashback Map Pack will be available immediately at launch, and consists of five popular maps from the original Gears of War, including: Canals, Gridlock, Mansion, Subway and Tyro Station. Each map has been specially updated with new graphics for Gears of War 2.

Also included in ever copy of Gears of War 2 will be a 48-hour trial of Xbox LIVE Gold membership.

We all know this, but Gears of War 2 will launch worldwide exclusively for Xbox 360 from November 7th, 2008.

[crazyD]

48 hours only? GTA 4 gave me a month. Cheapskates!

[KingGorilla]

48 hour trial? Have the stopped giving a free month to every gamertag?

[Ghostbear]

woohoo! I like more maps!

[Disgustipated]

I believe this was revealed a few weeks ago. Old news?...

[agentgray]

I find all these launch exclusives to be interesting: Dead Space suits, GoW2, LittleBigPlanet, etc. In some ways I think we'll start seeing games slightly gimped unless you purchase it at launch, or heaven help us, they are majorly gimped unless you purchase it new. It's a new CD-key system...only this time it effects gameplay or adds perks.

I think it's to curb the used games market.

[GigaFuzz]

I believe this was revealed a few weeks ago. Old news?...

Indeed. No harm in pointing it out again, but this was revealed a while back.

[Skjef]

So they 'give' you maps that could have been included on the disk anyway?

Dubious Quality has a good post on how publishers are trying to stem the used games market using first-time purchase bonuses like these:
http://dubiousquality.blogspot.com/2008/10/used-games-part-two.html

Edit: agentgray: Yup, basically. I hope they transition over to a digital distribution system soon, so they can start screwing consumers differently.

[King3567]

I believe this was revealed a few weeks ago. Old news?...

I revealed this on Evil Avatar three or four weeks ago and it was tagged as a rumor on many sites until recently. No harm in pointing this out again.

[pomeroy]

I believe this was revealed a few weeks ago. Old news?...

I don't think they had specified that the maps were old Gears1 maps.

[LarsenNET]

I don't think they had specified that the maps were old Gears1 maps.

Yes they did, but it's not a big deal either way. :)

[pomeroy]

Yes they did, but it's not a big deal either way. :)

Oh. Well, I missed that. Either way, yay for free maps (I'm honestly surprised they aren't charging for them).

[agentgray]

So they 'give' you maps that could have been included on the disk anyway?

Dubious Quality has a good post on how publishers are trying to stem the used games market using first-time purchase bonuses like these:
http://dubiousquality.blogspot.com/2008/10/used-games-part-two.html

Edit: agentgray: Yup, basically. I hope they transition over to a digital distribution system soon, so they can start screwing consumers differently.

Holy crap! I read DQ. (He treats you right!) I just hadn't caught up on my feeds yet. He says it so much better than I ever could.

[Johan]

I find all these launch exclusives to be interesting

This isn't a launch exclusive (someone link if I'm wrong, with evidence). I believe the maps are available to anyone who purchases a new copy of the game, and will continue to be into the future and beyond the launch window...

this is simply a way to persuade people to buy a new copy, which in my mind is a perfectly acceptable thing to do. It also will discourage piracy, I hope. Pirates get for free what I pay good scratch for, so I say screw them and do MORE of this! Also, I hate GameStop, so anything that hurts them is good in my book.

[bone_matrix]

I say good! I buy it new, and I get some of my favorite maps to play it on that have been redone? DEAL!

Have fun saving 5 bucks and no maps to the rest of ya'll, used game buyers!

(That sounded mean, and I didn't really mean it. I'm sorry baby!)

[pomeroy]

I say good! I buy it new, and I get some of my favorite maps to play it on that have been redone? DEAL!

Have fun saving 5 bucks and no maps to the rest of ya'll, used game buyers!

(That sounded mean, and I didn't really mean it. I'm sorry baby!)

I buy a lot of used games (not from Gamestop, but whatever). I would never buy one that would only save me five dollars.

And I'm sure these maps will eventually end up on the marketplace.

[agentgray]

This isn't a launch exclusive (someone link if I'm wrong, with evidence). I believe the maps are available to anyone who purchases a new copy of the game, and will continue to be into the future and beyond the launch window...

this is simply a way to persuade people to buy a new copy, which in my mind is a perfectly acceptable thing to do. It also will discourage piracy, I hope. Pirates get for free what I pay good scratch for, so I say screw them and do MORE of this! Also, I hate GameStop, so anything that hurts them is good in my book.

Let me clarify, it's exclusively FREE at launch. :D

My point was that it is to motivate people to buy a new copy and to pass on a used one. Always making it available for new copies is a Good Thing. However, some games are doing this only for the first week or two and not hereafter.

However, I'm pretty sure if you get a new copy years from now (rare, sure), you can have that key but it won't get you the gimped content.

...and don't think for one minute they won't gimp a console game in the future. This is just one step closer to what Sony was toying with a while back with encoding games to a specific console. Once you play it, it's yours.

If I was a used games dealer, I would be developing a new business plan.

[fitbabits]

I believe this was revealed a few weeks ago. Old news?...
Indeed, but it merited coverage at CoG.

[King3567]

At least this hasn't stemmed into everyone bitching about free maps like it did on EvAv

[fitbabits]

At least this hasn't stemmed into everyone bitching about free maps like it did on EvAv
I like to think that we're different class... :)

[Wedge]

At least this hasn't stemmed into everyone bitching about free maps like it did on EvAv

Nobody was bitching about free maps on EvAv. Get it straight. It was pointed out that this was done to fight used game sales, and not meant as a big e-hug to Gears fans. This move will inconvenience new-game buyers that:

1: Doesn't own a harddisk.
2: Doesn't have the 360 connected to the internet.
Which is a fair amount of people, actually.

Also it has the potential to annoy those who:
1: Have more than one account on one 360
2: Families with more than 1 360 and/or several accounts (families).

If being a "different class" means we see this for what it is, and do not delude ourselves into thinking that a money making business does this because they love us so very much, then I belong in that class.

[Telefrog]

And I'm sure these maps will eventually end up on the marketplace.

I doubt it. There are plenty of launch and CE exclusives that have never been opened up for purchase to everyone else as DLC. Besides, the whole point of this is to incentivize retail purchases of new copies rather than used copies. Offering these as DLC would completely negate that plan.

[Codicier]

I doubt it. There are plenty of launch and CE exclusives that have never been opened up for purchase to everyone else as DLC. Besides, the whole point of this is to incentivize retail purchases of new copies rather than used copies. Offering these as DLC would completely negate that plan.

Wouldn't fragmenting the player base be worse though? That logic translates well to other incentives but I don't know if they would irrevocably want to divide future purchasers from the rest of the community. Although, even if they offer it as a paid download, not everyone is going to buy.

I don't know, it seems like it's now a case of who would give up first. The people who buy after launch and don't want to buy the extra maps ( assuming they're offered ) or Epic and MS, who don't mind that new players after launch may experience difficulties when trying to play with people who do have the maps.

[Wedge]

This isn't a launch exclusive though. The code will be included with every new copy of Gears 2, from day one until they stop printing it.

[Telefrog]

I don't know, it seems like it's now a case of who would give up first. The people who buy after launch and don't want to buy the extra maps ( assuming they're offered ) or Epic and MS, who don't mind that new players after launch may experience difficulties when trying to play with people who do have the maps.

I seriously doubt Epic, MS, or any other game publisher/developer would give in first on this issue. Used game buyers actually cost more money. They use bandwidth and support, while providing little, if any, revenue to the game makers. Encouraging people to buy the games new can only make them more money. Anyone that encounters "difficulty" trying to play with others because they bought something used will just be told to go get a new copy if they want all the goodies. There's no obligation to provide customer support to those folks since they didn't actually contribute to the success of the product.

There is very lttle risk with this scheme, while there is a lot to gain.

[agentgray]

This isn't a launch exclusive though. The code will be included with every new copy of Gears 2, from day one until they stop printing it.
Exactly. My original choice of words was wrong. I thought I corrected that in a following post.

However, say you're late to the game and you go into Gamestop about four weeks after launch to get the game and play with your buddies. (They all have no lives and are in line now for it.)

You take it home to play, only to find out that they play the maps you don't have. Ouch. However, I'll bet when the next game rolls around you're in line too.

This is an incentive to get people (who normally buy used games) to buy new.

What I'm trying to get across is that this is only the beginning. What happens if you buy a used game sometime next year only to realize that because you didn't buy it new you don't get to play the last level, or a tide-turning online mechanic (like a powerful weapon) is missing?

Don't think that's not coming.

[Telefrog]

Speak of the Devil! Here's a great article (http://www.contentagenda.com/articleXml/LN867351899.html?industryid=45173) that sums this all up rather nicely.

All in all, I don't think these efforts by game makers are going to garner much loyalty from gamers, but if they add to the bottom line, the game makers probably won't care.

[agentgray]

Agreed, Telefrog.

Of course, the game has to be good to warrant me to buy it in the first place. :D

A lot of times, I buy a game used because 1) It's not worth the premium 2) I cannot afford the premium. I do buy a combination of new and used.

If publishers and developers start gimping games heavily, I just won't buy them (meaning the gimped games). It's a simple as that. Look at it this way, you are buying an incomplete game.

Honestly though, it won't matter. Gamers in general will just buy games new. I don't agree with the author in the article you posted that they will just stop buying. Credit makes that too easy.

Go watch Dark Knight in the theater. You want full surround sound? You want ten minutes of a superfluous fight scene? See it opening weekend. People would cry foul.

...and opening weekend would be insane.

[Wedge]

Exactly. My original choice of words was wrong. I thought I corrected that in a following post.


You did. I posted in response to Codicier's post. Should have quoted :)

What I'm trying to get across is that this is only the beginning. What happens if you buy a used game sometime next year only to realize that because you didn't buy it new you don't get to play the last level, or a tide-turning online mechanic (like a powerful weapon) is missing?

Don't think that's not coming.

Yeah, this is the beginning. On closed platforms like PS3 or 360, the developers/publishers are pretty free to hold out on content and name it a "free downloadable bonus" as much as they wish. Maps, weapons, models, modes. If this catches on I expect to see some pretty creative stuff from devs in the times ahead. I won't be surprised if we see a "unlock free bonus multiplayer!" one-time code in the future.

I also expect Gamestop to do something, like threaten publishers that they won't sell games new that include "anti-resell"-stuff like this. Or not bother informing used game buyers that the product they are buying might not be able to get access to all the content for that title.

[Johan]

I have no sympathy for people who boo-hoo about their used game purchases being "gimped" by this kind of thing. I buy new, and I'm happy to see a reward for that. If I want to save money on a new-at-retail game, what do I do? I wait for a price drop.

Tough luck. If we want these products, we actually should be happy to see our money go to the people who make these products, not to resellers. You're more than welcome to buy from resellers...it's a free market (well...we're socialist now, but that's another story)...but you can't have your cake and eat it too.

[Wedge]

I have no sympathy for people who boo-hoo about their used game purchases being "gimped" by this kind of thing.

What about people without harddisks? Internet? Any sympathy for them?

[agentgray]

I have no sympathy for people who boo-hoo about their used game purchases being "gimped" by this kind of thing.
...and those that buy new months from now?

Some titles are time restricted with content in the first week or two of launch. Not only are they going for getting you to buy a new copy, but to buy it fast.

Some people are good stewards of their money and see value in a used product. Also, what about a product that hardly ever drops in price, say a Nintendo game?

However, I do agree with you, Johan, on one point. Sometimes the used route is not that much of a stretch. Ok, so pretty much all the time with a AAA title. Wal-Mart sells a new copy of SW:TFU for $60. Gamestop sells a new copy for $60 (sometimes gutted...sigh–never bought by me) and a used copy for $55. That's not much of a savings. I've bought new games at Wal-Mart just to save me a trip to my local Gamestop just across the street.

...and then of course Gamestop gives you $25 for it. Bah. I don't trade in any more. It's all sold out right online.

I'm curious, do you keep all the games you buy? I'm not attacking or anything, I'm just curious about your game spending habits—knowing you to have a lot of kids. I've got two of my own and it's changed what I play and pay.

[Wedge]

New behind the scenes available, by the way.

Download from here (http://gearsofwar.xbox.com/Media/videos.htm), or just watch it here (http://www.gametrailers.com/player/41550.html).

[Codicier]

Ok, so clarify this for me then. Do we know if these are included with every new copy of Gears? Or is it only the initial launch print run that will have it? If it's the former, then what I said before doesn't really matter and it is in fact an incentive to buy new. ( which I'm not sure if I agree with. I used the trader zone at EvAv and later PiRi and I'm sure I'll end up using it here. It wouldn't be a trend I'd like to see spread. )

[Johan]

I'm curious, do you keep all the games you buy? I'm not attacking or anything, I'm just curious about your game spending habits—knowing you to have a lot of kids. I've got two of my own and it's changed what I play and pay.

I keep almost all of the games I buy. Some months back I grabbed a bunch (a few dozen) of ancient titles I would no longer play (most looked like crap compared to today's stuff), and dumped them for like a buck a piece (a rip-off, but I wanted them gone).

I buy the vast majority new, and I keep the vast majority. I do, however, buy my "new" games up to a year or more after they initially go gold (I'm still waiting on a $20 Oblivion copy at retail). I have a really hard time paying $40-70 for a game. It's just not worth that much scratch to me, and I have six kids to feed...and a wife...and my own belly, too. :)

If I averaged the cost of all of my games, I'd say it's quite likely that the average price is right around $20. I've got some that were freebies (giveaways), some that were $60 from the get-go (Gears, Halo 3, CoD4, a few others).

I don't know how some of y'all afford all the games you get. It really boggles my mind. Other than a couple of XBLA titles, the last game I bought on a disc was Rayman for my kids and Ninja Gaiden DS for me. My purchases have slowed a lot. I just don't have the time to play them all and can no longer justify buying them to gather dust on my shelf. :(

[agentgray]

I keep almost all of the games I buy. Some months back I grabbed a bunch (a few dozen) of ancient titles I would no longer play (most looked like crap compared to today's stuff), and dumped them for like a buck a piece (a rip-off, but I wanted them gone).

I buy the vast majority new, and I keep the vast majority. I do, however, buy my "new" games up to a year or more after they initially go gold (I'm still waiting on a $20 Oblivion copy at retail). I have a really hard time paying $40-70 for a game. It's just not worth that much scratch to me, and I have six kids to feed...and a wife...and my own belly, too. :)

If I averaged the cost of all of my games, I'd say it's quite likely that the average price is right around $20. I've got some that were freebies (giveaways), some that were $60 from the get-go (Gears, Halo 3, CoD4, a few others).

I don't know how some of y'all afford all the games you get. It really boggles my mind. Other than a couple of XBLA titles, the last game I bought on a disc was Rayman for my kids and Ninja Gaiden DS for me. My purchases have slowed a lot. I just don't have the time to play them all and can no longer justify buying them to gather dust on my shelf. :(
You and I are more alike in spending habits than I realized. Thanks for responding.

/derailment off (sorry about that—back to GoW2)

[neutralism]

What about people without harddisks?

I don't see any real change in status for 360 owners without hard drives. The majority probably based their purchase on financial constraints. Therefore, they more than likely mainly purchase used games.

In the case of GoW2, if they buy it new, they don't get the extra maps due to a lack of a hard drive and thus have made a partially financially wasteful purchase. So they buy GoW2 used, thus saving money, and are in no different position from the former because they still can't get/store the extra maps anyway therefore making the "one-time download token" irrelevant. :)

Internet? Any sympathy for them?If anyone without Internet access were to buy any game that has online multiplayer and multiplayer-only maps, it would be a waste of half their purchase money since you can only play the single player version (or local multiplayer if available). These people should buy their games used as well in order to save money and, like the hard driveless folks above, would not be in any different position concerning the "one-time download token" since having no Internet access makes "downloads" a moot point. :)

I wonder how many total maps there are in the first Gears of War and if they plan to redo them all for the sequel?

[Wedge]

I don't see any real change in status for 360 owners without hard drives. The majority probably based their purchase on financial constraints. Therefore, they more than likely mainly purchase used games.

In the case of GoW2, if they buy it new, they don't get the extra maps due to a lack of a hard drive and thus have made a partially financially wasteful purchase. So they buy GoW2 used, thus saving money, and are in no different position from the former because they still can't get/store the extra maps anyway therefore making the "one-time download token" irrelevant. :)


Many people bought the Core system because the premium was not available. Many people bought the core system because MS said it would never be required to play a game. Your assumption that people bought core systems because they didn't have the money, and therefore are cheapskates that only buy used games is just plain old faulty.

A simple yes or no question for you. Do you think that 100% of core owners only buy used games?


If anyone without Internet access were to buy any game that has online multiplayer and multiplayer-only maps, it would be a waste of half their purchase money since you can only play the single player version (or local multiplayer if available). These people should buy their games used as well in order to save money and, like the hard driveless folks above, would not be in any different position concerning the "one-time download token" since having no Internet access makes "downloads" a moot point. :)


Gears 2 has Horde mode and local multiplayer with bots, all of which can be played off-line on any multiplayer map. Gears 2 has more off-line multiplayer content than most games. I think even internet-less would like to have 5 extra maps to play on, but they can't, because Epic & MS wants to kick Gamestop in the balls.

[neutralism]

Many people bought the Core system because the premium was not available. Many people bought the core system because MS said it would never be required to play a game. Your assumption that people bought core systems because they didn't have the money, and therefore are cheapskates that only buy used games is just plain old faulty.

People with "financial constraints" are not "cheapskates."

A simple yes or no question for you. Do you think that 100% of core owners only buy used games?No. I bought a hard drive-less 360 SKU myself.

If you relook my post, I used the word "probably."

"Probably" does not equal "100%."

And besides, isn't Microsoft offering free memory cards or cheap 20GB drives to non-hard drive SKU owners with Live due to the upcoming New Xbox Experience update?

Gears 2 has Horde mode and local multiplayer with bots, all of which can be played off-line on any multiplayer map. Gears 2 has more off-line multiplayer content than most games. I think even internet-less would like to have 5 extra maps to play on, but they can't, because Epic & MS wants to kick Gamestop in the balls.How do the Internet-less people update their games that have had patches released? What about DLC that is developed after initial game release? Do you expect Microsoft to mail free update disks to Internet-less people like how PC game developers did for DOS games in the past? :confused:

[Wedge]

People with "financial constraints" are not "cheapskates."

Poor wording on my part, and a result of you stating most people bought core systems " to save money", which I disagreed with.

No. I bought a hard drive-less 360 SKU myself.

If you relook my post, I used the word "probably."

"Probably" does not equal "100%."

Good. Then we agree that a number of people that would like to have this content can't have it because it isn't included on the disc, right?


And besides, isn't Microsoft offering free memory cards or cheap 20GB drives to non-hard drive SKU owners with Live due to the upcoming New Xbox Experience update?


Yup. Good on Microsoft. A memory card won't really help with 500 MB+ downloads though. A cheap 20 gig harddisk will. This is a very valid point. If MS is on the ball they will market this fact on the same flyer that has the map pack-code.


How do the Internet-less people update their games that have had patches released?
They don't. They can return the game if the patch is needed to make it work at all. What does this have to do with anything?

What about DLC that is developed after initial game release? Do you expect Microsoft to mail free update disks to Internet-less people like how PC game developers did for DOS games in the past? :confused:
Again: what does this have to do with this? We are talking about a very specific case here.

What we have here is content developed under the same budget as the rest of game (they are not "free", they are a part of the $60 new game deal).

This content is then deliberatly kept off the disc to combat used game sales. Bottom line is that a small number of "legit" new game buyers will be unable to get this content.

Which is not a good thing.

This is all I am saying.

[neutralism]

Good. Then we agree that a number of people that would like to have this content can't have it because it isn't included on the disc, right?

Only if we agree that these same number of people that would like to have this content can't have it because they lack a hard drive or Internet access. :)

They don't. They can return the game if the patch is needed to make it work at all. What does this have to do with anything?Return? Return it for what? Another copy of the exact same game? :confused:


Again: what does this have to do with this? We are talking about a very specific case here.I don't know what it has to do with anything. You were the one who wanted sympathy for people without Internet access. Why should they even count in regards to use of resources for this generation of gaming?

What we have here is content developed under the same budget as the rest of game (they are not "free", they are a part of the $60 new game deal).You believe that everything that a company develops under a single budget should only be sold in a complete 100% package that leaves nothing out? :confused:

Warren Buffett is rolling in his grave, the guy isn't even dead yet...

This content is then deliberatly kept off the disc to combat used game sales. Bottom line is that a small number of "legit" new game buyers will be unable to get this content.

Which is not a good thing.

This is all I am saying.Gamestop buys used games for a lousy dollar and then turns around and sells them for thirty. They wouldn't even be in business if it weren't for game developers. Seriously, what does Gamestop "create" in terms of product and why should their leeching business practices be defended? :mad:

[JayVe]

Here are comparison screen shots (http://news.vgchartz.com/news.php?id=2325) of the old maps and their updated counterparts.

[Wedge]

Return? Return it for what? Another copy of the exact same game? :confused:
Money or store credit. That is how it works over here. What do you do when a game you buy doesn't work?


You believe that everything that a company develops under a single budget should only be sold in a complete 100% package that leaves nothing out? :confused:

What? Again I think we agree, expet that you seem to insist on twisting things. Point is some people think this is a big hug from Epic, maps developed "on the side" and handed out to fans. It isn't.


Gamestop buys used games for a lousy dollar and then turns around and sells them for thirty. They wouldn't even be in business if it weren't for game developers. Seriously, what does Gamestop "create" in terms of product and why should their leeching business practices be defended? :mad:
Developers and publishers can do all they want to stop second hand sales for all I care. I haven't tried to defend Gamestop with a single letter of my posts.

I'll retype my point again since you missed it despite quoting it:

This content is then deliberatly kept off the disc to combat used game sales. Bottom line is that a small number of "legit" new game buyers will be unable to get this content.

Which is not a good thing.


And just some fun info in case you think I am trying to "defend" used game sales:
1: I bought 3 games used last generation: Rez (PS2, out of print), Panzer Dragoon Orta (Xbox, out of print), Star Wars: Rebel Strike (GC, out of print).
2: I sold 0 games last generation.
3: I've bought 0 games used this generation.
4: I've sold 0 games this generation.

I don't care about used game sales. I actually don't really care too much about those who buy Gears 2 new and who don't get to download these maps either. All I am doing is pointing out that a small number of "legit" new game buyers will be unable to get this content.

I don't know what it has to do with anything. You were the one who wanted sympathy for people without Internet access. Why should they even count in regards to use of resources for this generation of gaming?
Because there is 8 million 360 owners without silver or gold accounts?

[neutralism]

Money or store credit. That is how it works over here. What do you do when a game you buy doesn't work?

I can only speak for my area, but you can only get it exchanged for the same game within 7 days which is pointless in regards being unable to download the same patch as discussed earlier. (I've always had Internet access so I never had to do this for that reason, though I did once get a scratched and unplayable disk out of a brand new box and got a same game exchange).


What? Again I think we agree, expet that you seem to insist on twisting things. Point is some people think this is a big hug from Epic, maps developed "on the side" and handed out to fans. It isn't.

Then why bother wasting time and resources recoding and retouching a bunch of maps? Why not just give you a one-time token in the box that allows you to activate the game for online play and receive a "free and exclusive" Mickey Mouse Hat for Marcus Fenix for your patronage, thus laying waste to the used game resellers and gimping pirates all in one fell swoop? :confused:

Developers and publishers can do all they want to stop second hand sales for all I care. I haven't tried to defend Gamestop with a single letter of my posts.

" I think even internet-less would like to have 5 extra maps to play on, but they can't, because Epic & MS wants to kick Gamestop in the balls."

Because there is 8 million 360 owners without silver or gold accounts?

Hmm, you got me there. I didn't even realize you could play a game without having setup a Gamertag... :(

[Wedge]

I can only speak for my area, but you can only get it exchanged for the same game within 7 days which is pointless in regards being unable to download the same patch as discussed earlier. (I've always had Internet access so I never had to do this for that reason, though I did once get a scratched and unplayable disk out of a brand new box and got a same game exchange).

Sounds like you got some shitty laws where you live. Over here you got some rights if the product you buy doesn't work as advertised.

Doesn't really matter, though. I don't hink it has happened yet that a 360 game has been released with a 100% game breaking bug.


Then why bother wasting time and resources recoding and retouching a bunch of maps? Why not just give you a one-time token in the box that allows you to activate the game for online play and receive a "free and exclusive" Mickey Mouse Hat for Marcus Fenix for your patronage, thus laying waste to the used game resellers and gimping pirates all in one fell swoop? :confused:

This could be the next step, but it has a host of new problems. You can't take your copy to a friends house and play multiplayer (without bringing a memory card with your gamertag on it), your friend can't borrow it to test the multiplayer, if you got more than one account (like some friends of mine: mom, dad and a son and 2 360s) in a household the multiplayer will be tied to one account etc, etc. There would be a lot more noise if they did it like this.

A "free bonus map pack" is a much more benign way to do it. It is completely optional, almost everybody can get it if they really want it (if you don't have internet: lug your 360 to a friends house who has an internet connection and download, etc), the game works just fine without it, etc.

It is hard to fight piracy and used game sales without affecting some of your "legit" customers. This is one of the better attempts, but it still isn't perfect.


" I think even internet-less would like to have 5 extra maps to play on, but they can't, because Epic & MS wants to kick Gamestop in the balls."

I'm not sure how this can be interpreted as defending Gamestop. Unless you think I'm defending piracy if I say I think most DRM inconveniences legit users.


Hmm, you got me there. I didn't even realize you could play a game without having setup a Gamertag... :(
I guess you set up a silver account pretty much no matter what, but 8 million of these have never been online. 20 million 360s sold, 12 million (gold and silver) subscribers have been online, says wiki.

And now, since you are darting around my main claim ("Bottom line is that a small number of "legit" new game buyers will be unable to get this content.") I will assume you are arguing just to argue. When you do respond to this claim I will be more than happy to continue the discussion.

[neutralism]

And now, since you are darting around my main claim ("Bottom line is that a small number of "legit" new game buyers will be unable to get this content.") I will assume you are arguing just to argue. When you do respond to this claim I will be more than happy to continue the discussion.

Who's darting around? I haven't disagreed with you on your point. It is 100% absolutely true and without flaw. :)

However, you insist on continuing to compare rotten apples to rotten oranges. :confused:

At any rate, the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, in this case. :mad:

It's like legitimately buying a PC game and then coming home only to realize your machine doesn't meet the minimum requirements to run the game when you try to install it. Either get Internet access and a hard drive, or be satisfied with playing Spider Solitaire. :)

[Telefrog]

And now, since you are darting around my main claim ("Bottom line is that a small number of "legit" new game buyers will be unable to get this content.") I will assume you are arguing just to argue. When you do respond to this claim I will be more than happy to continue the discussion.

Oh, you're entirely correct that some people won't have access to this content even if they did legitimately buy the game new. Here's the thing. Game makers don't care. Right now, the focus is on tackling used game sales.

Those few customers that can't or won't get the maps because they don't have internet access on their console aren't the priority at all. In fact, these kinds of deals are doubly appealing to the console makers because they not only encourage new game sales, they also push players in the direction of getting their consoles online thereby getting access to their digital stores.

[Wedge]

Who's darting around? I haven't disagreed with you on your point. It is 100% absolutely true and without flaw. :)
[quote]
Good. Then we agree completely when it comes down to it. Despite all the words in previous posts.

[quote]
However, you insist on continuing to compare rotten apples to rotten oranges. :confused:

Not sure what you mean by that, but I've tried to make it clear several times that this is nothing I feel all that strongly about, and I think it is a good (good, but definately not perfect) way for Epic & MS to fight used game sales.

[Wedge]

...they also push players in the direction of getting their consoles online thereby getting access to their digital stores.

True, I didn't think of that.