Say what you will about Fox News...

[Serapth]

This, is perhaps one of the most politically unbiased articles I have read sofar over the health care legislation. I am actually rather impressed.

What Obama should do (http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/08/31/obama-faces-calls-grab-health-care-reins-congress/)


For the record, I think he should do exactly what this article suggests. The Democrats in congress really do need a smack in the face and Obama needs to grow some of the balls Bush had. For such a simple man, Bush and Co really did have the ability to force everyone else in line.

[National Kato]

I agree on both counts, Serapth (unusual FOX article and Obama needing to get more involved).

If he gave a national primetime address explaining his healthcare bill piece-by-piece, he'd likely put to rest a lot of the confusion. We'd still have those who think he's lying or misleading or whatever, but this President is someone who succeeds best when he's talking to the nation. Use his oratorical prowess to lay out, in no uncertain terms, what this reform will do and - equally important - what it won't do.

[Ink Asylum]

Considering all Fox News has done to advance the lies about the health care bill which have helped foment this state of disarray I'm not going to give them much credit in this instance.

[Serapth]

I agree on both counts, Serapth (unusual FOX article and Obama needing to get more involved).

If he gave a national primetime address explaining his healthcare bill piece-by-piece, he'd likely put to rest a lot of the confusion. We'd still have those who think he's lying or misleading or whatever, but this President is someone who succeeds best when he's talking to the nation. Use his oratorical prowess to lay out, in no uncertain terms, what this reform will do and - equally important - what it won't do.

And completely ignore or dismiss the super far right ( and small group of extremely left ) voters that are never going to agree with him anyways.

[Hemalin]

Yeah...probably not. The suggestions made in the article would just go to piss off democrats that have worked on the current bills and add more fuel for his critics. The bill you'll see from Obama is probably a bill that looks pretty much the same as what's in the House anyway.

[National Kato]

The bill you'll see from Obama is probably a bill that looks pretty much the same as what's in the House anyway.

That might be. I think the more important action would be to explain the bill on national primetime television. If it's this important to the country, it's important enough to run in place of American Idol.

Otherwise, the FUD runs rampant and the Democrats/Administration have to shout and stammer all the more loudly to combat it.

[Scull]

You'll always have people like my parents. I had this conversation with my step-mom:

SM: "I hate what Obama is doing to this country."
Me: "Oh? What exactly is he doing that you hate?"
SM: "Everything! He's just awful."
Me: "Everything? He hasn't done a single thing correctly in his time in office?"
SM: "That's right. He's the worst president ever!"

She voted for G.W. Bush. Twice. Nothing that Obama does will ever be good for her, and she'll claim that to everyone who will listen. In fact she's pretty sure she'll start becoming more politically active. She scares me a great deal.

[Doctor Setebos]

Why are Canadians so interested in our politics? Is Canada really that boring? :D

[Esquilax1138]

Why are Canadians so interested in our politics? Is Canada really that boring? :D

I think it's one part Canadian politics being about as exciting as watching Mr. Rogers debate himself, and one part the over the top WWE wrestling style American politics.

Should watch CBC national news, it's sooooo mellow. They usually bring on one guest at a time to interview, and give them time to talk and answer questions politely. It's no where near as exciting as the US news flamethrower fights when they bring on anywhere form 2 to 12 people to see who can yell the loudest over all the rest.

It's like watching a train wreck, can't turn away!

[Serapth]

Why are Canadians so interested in our politics? Is Canada really that boring? :D

Hey, we could be interested in your politics, or we could be interested in the shit Americans are interested in. You know, like Octomom, Paris Hilton and Who Wants to Survive a Millionaires BFF.... :D


Besides, American politics are so overwhelmingly fucked up, you can't really make for better reality TV.

[Doctor Setebos]

Besides, American politics are so overwhelmingly fucked up, you can't really make for better reality TV.This is the part that stings with its naked truth.

[Ultima Thulian]

Believe it or not, Fox isn't that much different in quality when they put the pundits away and just do a "normal" newscast/article.

But then, it's folk like Hannity and Beck that pull the ratings. Not intelligent discourse.

[Doogie2K]

I think it's one part Canadian politics being about as exciting as watching Mr. Rogers debate himself, and one part the over the top WWE wrestling style American politics.

Pretty much this. I keep hoping for an honest-to-God fist fight to break out at some point to complete the spectacle, but I'm continually underwhelmed. ;)

[Narradisall]

Yeah, I have to chime in. From the outside observer, American politics is GREAT to watch.

Plus we're somewhat tied into what you do, but its mainly for the lulz.

*Yes I'm aware most other politics is exactly the same but my glass house was fucked up long ago*

[Ultima Thulian]

For political lulz, I watch the British House of Commons.

[Narradisall]

For political lulz, I watch the British House of Commons.

Yeah, but all they do is argue in a very "British" way.

Someone says something then about 40 people go "Ahmmmarghrgrhgrrghrghr" :D

[Dukefrukem]

Considering all Fox News has done to advance the lies about the health care bill which have helped foment this state of disarray I'm not going to give them much credit in this instance.

Exactly. Couldn't have said it better.

[GunnyMo]

Obama and the Dems do need to grow a set of cajones. It's embarrassing to see them fumble about. Bush may have been one of the worst presidents this country has ever seen but, to be fair, he was damn good at being the worst. When he wanted to take away civil liberties, by gum, he did it. No screwing around, no waiting to see what the populace would say. When he wanted to start a war no one wanted, he just fucking did it. It's that simple.

I'm also a bit saddened that with all of the issues facing our country Obama chose healthcare to focus on. Healthcare? Really? The economy is tanked, we're almost at double digit unemployment and we're another country, in a long line of countries, destined to fail in Afghanistan and he wastes an entire year on healthcare? Bad show, Obama, bad show.

I am a huge Obama supporter but this healthcare focus, and I don't care what the bill has in it, has been a monumental waste of time. I have actually considered not voting for him next election. That's how disillusioned I am with this first year of his presidency.

[Dukefrukem]

Obama and the Dems do need to grow a set of cajones. It's embarrassing to see them fumble about. Bush may have been one of the worst presidents this country has ever seen but, to be fair, he was damn good at being the worst.

I know the point you're trying to make but this kind of thinking got us into the problems we are in today.

[GunnyMo]

I know the point you're trying to make but this kind of thinking got us into the problems we are in today.

haha ;) I'm not saying Obama should be the irresponsible penis cranium Bush was but that he should be a bit more decisive.

[Dukefrukem]

I don't have many complaints for him in his first year. He's in a big hole as it is and it's gonna take a lot from the American people to accept the fact that we got fucked in the ass the last 8 years and now we're literally paying for it. They say we are out of the recession as of July 09. If that's true... that's not a bad turnaround. We'll find out for sure in 2 years.

[GunnyMo]

He's in a big hole as it is and it's gonna take a lot from the American people to accept the fact that we got fucked in the ass the last 8 years and now we're literally paying for it.

That's my point, though, is that there are more important things to fix and/or deal with besides healthcare.

[Ultima Thulian]

Yeah, but all they do is argue in a very "British" way.

Someone says something then about 40 people go "Ahmmmarghrgrhgrrghrghr" :D

And I love that. Never gets old for me. :p

[Dukefrukem]

That's my point, though, is that there are more important things to fix and/or deal with besides healthcare.

Well if what they say is true...and we're out of the recession, what would be YOUR number 2 thing to work on? And don't say the war.

[GunnyMo]

Well if what they say is true...and we're out of the recession, what would be YOUR number 2 thing to work on? And don't say the war.

Education. Eliminating No Child Left Behind and putting the focus back on educating instead of rote test memorization.

(but I secretly whispered "the war") :D

[Dukefrukem]

Education. Eliminating No Child Left Behind and putting the focus back on educating instead of rote test memorization.

(but I secretly whispered "the war") :D

Ohhh (http://www.docstoc.com/docs/10582301/President-Obama%E2%80%99s-Address-to-Students-Across-America-September-8-2009)

[Vigil80]

Considering all Fox News has done to advance the lies about the health care bill which have helped foment this state of disarray I'm not going to give them much credit in this instance.
They output no more or fewer lies than any other biggie news outlet.
Well if what they say is true...and we're out of the recession, what would be YOUR number 2 thing to work on? And don't say the war.
Financial market oversight without government takeover. Corporate creditors especially need to have their tree shaken.

[GunnyMo]

They output no more or fewer lies than any other biggie news outlet.


Um, sure. You must not have seen just about every show of Hannity and/or Glenn Beck. ;) The amount of outright bullshit that spews from those two is enough to require hip waders by people watching at home.

[Ultima Thulian]

Fox news? MOAR LIEK FAUX NEWS, AM I RITE?

[GunnyMo]

Fox news? MOAR LIEK FAUX NEWS, AM I RITE?

Sure, if you're a tard. Normal people would spell it "Fox News". Just an FYI. :p

[roboninja]

Um, sure. You must not have seen just about every show of Hannity and/or Glenn Beck. ;) The amount of outright bullshit that spews from those two is enough to require hip waders by people watching at home.

Glenn Beck tried to convince me oligarchy was spelled: O-L-I-G-A-R-H-Y

I didn't buy it.

[Vigil80]

What network doesn't have pundit talk shows? I stick by my original statement.

[GunnyMo]

Glenn Beck tried to convince me oligarchy was spelled: O-L-I-G-A-R-H-Y

I didn't buy it.

Well, cut the guy some slack. I mean, he is trying to formulate plans to poison Pelosi. That takes a lot of brain power!

[GunnyMo]

What network doesn't have pundit talk shows? I stick by my original statement.

True but I don't see any pundits on any other networks advocating the murder of government officials, pushing that death panel crap or any other completely outrageous bullshit Fox routinely passes off as "news". :p

[ShivaX]

What network doesn't have pundit talk shows? I stick by my original statement.

See, the problem with Fox News is that every show is a pundit talk show. They're not really a new agency other than maybe Shepard Smith.

Lets take a look:

I'll even count shows I'm not sure of or don't know about as news.

6a-9a Fox and Friends - pundit crap
9a-11a America's Newsroom - news
11a-1p Happening Now - news
1p-3p The Live Desk - news
3p-4p Studio B Shepard Smith - news
4p-5p Your World with Neil Cavuto - pundit crap
5p-6p Glenn Beck - pundit crap
6p-7p Special Report with Bret Baier - pundit crap
7p-8p Fox Report Shepard Smith - news
8p-9p O'Reilly Factor - pundit crap
9p-10p Hannity - pundit crap
10p-11p On the Record - pundit crap
3a-4a Red Eye w/ Greg Gutfeld - just plain crap

So thats about 9 hours of partisan/pundit/talking heads crap.
And at best 8 hours of news.

But what about say... CNN

6a-9a American Morning - news
9a-4p CNN Newsroom - news
4p-7p The Situation Room -news/some punditry
7p-8p Lou Dobbs Tonight - pundit crap
8p-9p Campbell Brown - news
9p-10p Larry King Live - just plain crap
10p-12a Anderson Cooper 360 -news

So CNN's day is at best 4 hours of punditry, sometimes you'll have guests on Brown or Cooper, but they never take a political side really and tend to play devil's advocate (or reality advocate in the case of Brown).

Actual news gets 16 hours of news, 6 of which has some punditry, but that punditry isn't what the show is about its generally discussion on the subject by people from both sides of the issue, which is almost never the case on Fox News (Hannity's American Panel or whatever he calls it is the best - 3 people who agree with Sean on almost everything, yeah thats a good cross section of America).

[Vigil80]

True but I don't see any pundits on any other networks advocating the murder of government officials, pushing that death panel crap or any other completely outrageous bullshit Fox routinely passes off as "news". :p
That sounds like hyperbole to me...
(schedules)
I'd have to question your categorization of some of those programs.

I guess I could be accused of trolling on this point, but I'll save you some time. I'll never be convinced that any major news outlet leans any less than any other, in any direction. If there's a story worth paying attention to, it's worth investigating from a variety of sources. But when talking about the news media at large, saying BlueNews is quality journalism, but RedNews is lies just sounds like more punditry to me.

They all have a facade of truth to maintain to stay on the air. The distinction is, do you want your news with a lefty or righty aftertaste?

[Chaos Machine]

Read the comments on fox news articles, those are great stuff, my favorite was a line about how obama has spent more money in 1 year than bush ever did on the wars in afghanistan and iraq. not only is this categorically false, but its not like the wars fucking ended when he left office.

Plus bush wasn't really running the show until the final years of his presidency when he started realizing that Cheney was turning the US into a fascist state at an alarming pace and took away his keys.

The dems need to grow a pair and stop listening to their extreme left wing, same with republicans listening to the wingnuts. I wouldn't mind republicans giving the dems a hard time on health care if they ACTUALLY PROPOSED SOME SORT OF ALTERNATIVE.

[Vigil80]

Most every prez draws his share of hate.

I do agree that each party needs to stuff some of their extremism in the basement. I think Republicans, for example, would go much farther if they could detach themselves as candidates from dead horse issues like abortion.

As for health care, it's easy to say "let's see you do better!" As someone not in a hurry to see nationalized health care anyway, letting the issue drop counts as an alternative to me.

[ShivaX]

That sounds like hyperbole to me...

I'd have to question your categorization of some of those programs.

I guess I could be accused of trolling on this point, but I'll save you some time. I'll never be convinced that any major news outlet leans any less than any other, in any direction. If there's a story worth paying attention to, it's worth investigating from a variety of sources. But when talking about the news media at large, saying BlueNews is quality journalism, but RedNews is lies just sounds like more punditry to me.

They all have a facade of truth to maintain to stay on the air. The distinction is, do you want your news with a lefty or righty aftertaste?

Glenn Beck doesn't even have a facade of truth though.

And watch CNN and then watch Fox News and compare how often people interject their personal ideologies. On Fox about the only person who doesn't do it is Shepard Smith. I'm not saying CNN is quality journalism. Fuck half of what they do during the day is read fucking Facebook and Twitter like its somehow relevant what DumbFuck532 has to say about something.

Its not that Fox News is all lies, but honestly if it fits their agenda they have no problem not reporting that things aren't true. Look at the whole Death Panel crap. They don't even go after it, even though they know it isn't true. Look at Glenn Fucking Beck literally a raving mad lunatic at this point, yet noone questions his evidence or words. Hell they get other crazy fucks to come on, agree with him and then pain him as Winston Churchill fighting the Hitler in the modern age (and I fucking wish I was making that up, but thats pretty much what I saw last time I watched the show).

Its not news. Its ideological masturbation. MSNBC isn't much better. In fact they're really not any better, except they do let a conservative have a show. They're full of horseshit too, but they also don't get crap for ratings and their following is pretty weak, whereas Fox News can create "grassroots movements" overnight and then report them as some sort of public uprising.

[Panthera]

...at least it's an ethos?