Your Guide to a Magic PC - Guide in First Post [2012/03/05]

[LiquidRain]

Okay, couple questions:

1. What does your wife currently have for CPU horsepower and RAM that makes your wife feel constrained on her desktop and laptop?
2. What does she do that demands higher processor power? Define "typical business apps." Business apps for a graphic designer (InDesign/Photoshop) are drastically different from someone who just needs MS Office.

Unless you're running something quite old and slow (sub-2.0GHz Core 2 Duo or older), it's very likely your wife doesn't need much new at all. Her main gripe may boil down to a particular component of the computer - the hard drive, which makes the best laptops run to a crawl, in which case you'll give the laptop a great zing by popping in a $200 SSD.

[resikel]

But you can't use the $30 student deal on a brand new harddrive can you? Doesn't it have to be a drive with a previous version of Windows on it?

If so, could I just put in the old (dell) harddrive in the new system then apply this upgrade and do a clean install of it. Would that work?

Sorry for the delay in responding...

My nephew gave me a key and after I downloaded the iso file, I just did a fresh clean install, no upgrade.

[Shadowstorm]

I thought that this article (http://www.dailytech.com/AMD+Previews+Scorpius+Platform+FX+Octacore+Bulldoz er++Radeon+6xxx+/article21833.htm) might interest many of you ("AMD Previews "Scorpius" Platform: "FX" Octacore Bulldozer + Radeon 6xxx").

[EternalGamer]

Sorry for the delay in responding...

My nephew gave me a key and after I downloaded the iso file, I just did a fresh clean install, no upgrade.

Cool. So I already have a full version of the Win7 CD. I could just use that with the new upgrade key correct?

[resikel]

Cool. So I already have a full version of the Win7 CD. I could just use that with the new upgrade key correct?

Your condition differs from mine. I have a full version key using a full version.

I did a quick google and got this:

http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows_7-windows_install/upgrade-key-using-full-version-dvd-media/8ef42450-4f9a-43b7-841b-f6777236c8bf

[Xerxes]

Ha ha! I can't believe I missed this. Schools selling the upgrade version. That's something I know about.

Here's what you do. You take your install disc and install it as normal on a clean new HDD. Key doesn't work. Boo hoo. You "install" it again but click the Upgrade option. Key will now work. Wtf?

Yes, I was the idiot who wondered if installing it twice counted as a upgrade and it does. It's how I got my new machine up and running.

[Crittias]

Unless you're running something quite old and slow (sub-2.0GHz Core 2 Duo or older), it's very likely your wife doesn't need much new at all.She doesn't need a new computer, but she's getting one anyway. We're both about to start new jobs, and a condition to that career move is turning in our current laptops and leaving our old desktops behind, and getting new ones at our new positions.

My wife is a finance professor. She runs fairly rigorous statistical analysis on large datasets. SAS and Stata are the two programs she uses most often. You're not wrong, she probably doesn't need a ton of horsepower for her job, but she needs more than the average desk jockey. Also, her budget is...substantial, so she has the opportunity to buy more than she needs.

During my first pass, I proposed two systems for her. For her desktop, I suggested a Dell Precision T1600 workstation. System comes with a Quad Core Xeon E3-1225, 3.10 GHz, 8GB RAM,500GB HDD, a low end dedicated vidcard (more than adequate), a 23" monitor. I think it will easily serve her needs. I cringe at the markup they charge vs. building the same thing myself, but again, that's not an option.

For the first pass at a laptop, I'm suggesting the Samsung Series 9 NP900X3A. Again, it's stupidly expensive, but it's also light, fast, and has good battery life.

We haven't ordered anything yet, so if anyone sees any showstopping issues with those two choices, let me know.

[EternalGamer]

Ha ha! I can't believe I missed this. Schools selling the upgrade version. That's something I know about.

Here's what you do. You take your install disc and install it as normal on a clean new HDD. Key doesn't work. Boo hoo. You "install" it again but click the Upgrade option. Key will now work. Wtf?

Yes, I was the idiot who wondered if installing it twice counted as a upgrade and it does. It's how I got my new machine up and running.

Cool. So you clicked "full version the first time and upgrade the second time?

[Xerxes]

Cool. So you clicked "full version the first time and upgrade the second time?

Yep. Then you can enter the key and it'll accept this time.

[LiquidRain]

During my first pass, I proposed two systems for her. For her desktop, I suggested a Dell Precision T1600 workstation. System comes with a Quad Core Xeon E3-1225, 3.10 GHz, 8GB RAM,500GB HDD, a low end dedicated vidcard (more than adequate), a 23" monitor. I think it will easily serve her needs. I cringe at the markup they charge vs. building the same thing myself, but again, that's not an option.
You're not getting any more juice out of that Xeon than you would a Core i5 - you just pay for the markup. Go for a standard "2nd Gen Core series" (aka Sandy Bridge) build, something with an i5 2400 or an i5 2500 in it. You don't need a business workstation.

For the first pass at a laptop, I'm suggesting the Samsung Series 9 NP900X3A. Again, it's stupidly expensive, but it's also light, fast, and has good battery life.
It's anything but fast - in fact, it's very slow. It's a 1.4GHz dual core. That ain't fast. Look at the Thinkpad X220 (http://shop.lenovo.com/us/products/Laptops/ThinkPad/x-series/x220/index.html) - it's in the same price range and you can get it equipped with insane battery life and an actual fast CPU. (2.6GHz, 2.7GHz if you really go balls out but that CPU has a bit of sticker shock) If you got the scratch to spend, trust me, it doesn't come any more highly recommended than that X220. I have the predecessor and I can't praise it enough as a laptop. (sure, it's not quite as stylish as the Samsung 9...) It also has an insanely good screen - better than even any Apple laptop. And the magnesium-alloy chassis, I've dropped my laptop a number of times and nary a scratch. And the support for Intel's Mini-PCIe SSDs. (which means you can drop a cheap-as-chips Intel 60GB SSD in there and still use the standard hard drive bay for a mechanical disk for storage) And yet, it's still thin, and still light. I could rant for hours. I really want one myself.

Take a look at this this sexy-on-paper (http://rainwave.cc/~rain/x220.txt) X220 build I just threw together. Tack on an extra $100 for do-it-yourself 8GB RAM (far cheaper than having Lenovo do it) aaaand that's a winner for less price than the Samsung. Add one of these as a system drive (http://www.newegg.ca/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&DEPA=0&Order=BESTMATCH&Description=intel+pcie+ssd&x=0&y=0), keep the HDD for storage, and you're laughing all the way to speed heaven. The 9-cell in that build is a bit bulky (it sticks out of the system) but provides about 12-13 hours of battery life. The standard 6-cell (form fitting) provides 8.

[Crittias]

You're not getting any more juice out of that Xeon than you would a Core i5 - you just pay for the markup. Go for a standard "2nd Gen Core series" (aka Sandy Bridge) build, something with an i5 2400 or an i5 2500 in it. You don't need a business workstation.I agree with you. I picked the workstation because of this quote from Anandtech:
Until HP refreshes their workstations with Sandy Bridge based Xeons, the Precision T1600 stands to be the only game in town and it's a fine one. Just be ready to pay for it.
Do any of the major players have 2nd Gen Core series available? It's not obvious to me when I browse Dell's site, for instance.

Thanks also for the laptop recommendation. Two issues. One: I can't modify the device, like adding SSD drives or memory after the fact. No doubt it's a cheaper alternative, but it's not an option. Two: the clunky form-factor's not going to work for my fashion-aware better half.

[Crittias]

Follow up on the desktop choices, based on Liquid's advice. What do you think of this HP?

p7xt Series

Genuine Windows 7 Professional [64-bit]
Processor Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-2500S quad-core processor [2.7GHz, 6MB cache]
Memory 8GB DDR3-1333MHz SDRAM [2 DIMMs]
Hard drive 1TB 7200 rpm SATA 3Gb/s hard drive
Graphics card Integrated graphics - Intel(R) HD graphics [DVI, VGA]
HP 2511x 25-inch LED Monitor
Speakers HP Digital Portable Speaker


Total cost as configured is more than $500 less than the Dell.
I wasn't sure if she needed more than the integrated graphics to drive a 25" monitor for typical use? She won't be watching HD video or playing games on it, so my gut says no. My options would be:

Integrated graphics - Intel(R) HD graphics
512MB DDR3 AMD Radeon HD 6450
1GB DDR3 AMD Radeon HD 6450
1GB DDR3 Radeon HD 6570
2GB DDR3 NVIDIA GeForce GT 530

[LiquidRain]

The Intel graphics are capable of HD video/etc anyway, and if she's not playing games it's a total non-concern. Onboard will be fine.

In regards to the Thinkpad, Lenovo encourages you to do your own upgrades. Popping open the laptop does not void your warranty. You could completely take it apart, put it back together, and still get a warranty repair. Thinkpads are legendary for that - you can put in anything you want after you buy it. A shame your better half is style over substance here. The only advice I can give you, then, is to keep in the 2.3-2.6GHz range and make sure you get a 2nd gen Core i5 from a reputable brand like Lenovo, ASUS, HP, or a Dell Business or Dell XPS model. (read: "avoid Acer and Gateway") The HP 13" EliteBook may be worth a look.

For that desktop - you can get faster than the i5-2500S. The "S" at the end denotes a lower power CPU spec, a normal i5-2500 is 3.3GHz with a 3.7GHz turbo boost. See what else you can dig up - and any PC from any of the major vendors is likely to be the same as another. (in terms of Dell vs. HP)

[Crittias]

For that desktop - you can get faster than the i5-2500S. The "S" at the end denotes a lower power CPU spec, a normal i5-2500 is 3.3GHz with a 3.7GHz turbo boost.Ah, missed that. Okay, another try:

HPE510t series

Genuine Windows 7 Professional 64-bit
Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-2500 quad-core processor [3.3GHz, 6MB cache]
8GB DDR3-1333MHz SDRAM [4 DIMMs]
1TB 7200 rpm SATA 3Gb/s
1GB DDR3 NVIDIA GeForce 405
HP 2511x 25-inch LED Monitor
HP Digital Portable Speaker

$15 more money. :)
Any reason to bump from the 4 2GB DIMMs to 3 3GB DIMMs? Will this system be dual or triple channel? (I haven't kept up with this stuff as well as I should)

[Crittias]

In regards to the Thinkpad, Lenovo encourages you to do your own upgrades. Popping open the laptop does not void your warranty. You could completely take it apart, put it back together, and still get a warranty repair. It's not that. I'm perfectly willing and capable of upgrading the hardware myself. The issue is that the computers won't technically be ours, they'll be owned by the state. I'd be breaking some rules by tinkering with them after the departmental IS folks get them set up.

A shame your better half is style over substance here.Perhaps style was the wrong word to use. "Slim, ergonomic, functional, unobtrusive" would be better choices. The laptop doesn't have to be a heavy hitter like her desktop, and it will be used infrequently, and only during travel. If she were an Apple user, she'd be picking up an AirBook.

Don't misunderstand me: I might pick up that IBM for my own use. It's a badass laptop at a good price. It's just not the right fit for her.

[LiquidRain]

Ah, missed that. Okay, another try:

HPE510t series

Genuine Windows 7 Professional 64-bit
Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-2500 quad-core processor [3.3GHz, 6MB cache]
8GB DDR3-1333MHz SDRAM [4 DIMMs]
1TB 7200 rpm SATA 3Gb/s
1GB DDR3 NVIDIA GeForce 405
HP 2511x 25-inch LED Monitor
HP Digital Portable Speaker

$15 more money. :)
Any reason to bump from the 4 2GB DIMMs to 3 3GB DIMMs? Will this system be dual or triple channel? (I haven't kept up with this stuff as well as I should)

Huh, why is it still so pricey, jesus. I don't know what to tell you. I don't have the time to go hunting right now.

Re: laptops, the only thing the Thinkpad is missing is the actual style. "Ergonomic" on laptops is a joke (and if you want to talk real ergonomics I'll highlight the Thinkpad's trackpoint/nub, which is far more ergonomic than a touchpad) and the Thinkpad is millimetres thicker than the Samsung and barely heavier, while fitting into a smaller footprint. (12.5" screen instead of 13.3")*

If you can't upgrade the laptop or desktop at all once the state gets a hold of it, I don't know what to tell you other than "good luck." Sounds like this isn't your money anyway. :)

* I am not a fanboy HOW DARE YOU ACCUSE ME OF BEING ONE. >_>

[Bone]

I agree about the Thinkpad, ergonomics are the same or better than other laptops (I too prefer the "nub" over a trackpad) and they only lack in style. But then, a square flat-black laptop today is kind of a fashion statement in itself.

[Crittias]

Huh, why is it still so pricey, jesus. I don't know what to tell you. I don't have the time to go hunting right now.$15 more expensive than the first HP I posted. Still $500 less than the Dell workstation. No worries, your advice is saving us a ton of money...that isn't ours to begin with. :D

P.S. any advice about 3 DIMMs vs. 4?

[LiquidRain]

Depends on the platform - a 2nd gen Core i5 will be better with 4. I have no idea why they'd even offer 3, they work in pairs.

[Felonous]

My new build, it's put together and running windows updates as I type:

Case: Thermaltake Element S VK6000 (might be a temporary home for the parts, was a case I had gotten free with one of my purchases for my roommate's computer)
Power Supply: LEPA G700-MA 700W (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817194084)
Motherboard: ASUS P8Z68-V (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131729)
CPU: Intel Core i5-2500K Sandy Bridge (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115072)
Memory: 2 X CORSAIR Vengeance 8GB (2 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820233144) (16GB total)
Video Card: MSI GeForce GTX560 1 GB DDR5 2DVI/Mini HDMI PCI-Express Video Card N560GTX TI TWIN FROZR II OC (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814127565)
Hard Drive: Crucial RealSSD C300 CTFDDAC064MAG-1G1 2.5" 64GB SATA III MLC Internal Solid State Drive (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820148357)
Hard Drive: Seagate Barracuda ST31000524AS 1TB 7200 RPM 32MB Cache SATA 6.0Gb/s (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822148697)
Optical Drive: LG CD/DVD Burner Black SATA Model GH22NS70 OEM (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827136238)

Everything else I am parting out from my old system that I built back in 2006. My main objective is a workstation that will scream through my photoshop and video render sessions, while being able to let me play the newer video games without choking.

[iHap]

My new possible build i'm looking to purchase... very soon. Cost comes out to $1,269.94. Some hardware may change if I see anything better.

Case: Antec Twelve Hundred V3 Black Steel ATX Full Tower (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811129100)
Motherboard: GIGABYTE GA-P67A-UD4-B3 LGA 1155 Intel P67 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128478)
CPU: Intel Core i7-2600K Sandy Bridge 3.4GHz (3.8GHz Turbo Boost) (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115070)
Video Card: EVGA SuperClocked 012-P3-1573-KR GeForce GTX 570 HD (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130620)
PSU: CORSAIR HX Series CMPSU-750HX 750W ATX12V 2.3 / EPS12V 2.91 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139010)
Memory: CORSAIR Vengeance 8GB (2 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1866 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820233142)

[Felonous]

My new machine is purring along well at this point, installed steam and Far Cry 2, runs on ultra high settings no problems. Now I need to finish installing all the other software for video editing and photoshop.

I used the Win 7 ultimate disk I had installed on my old computer, at some point I'm going to have to validate it with Microsoft. I bought a copy of Win7 Home Premium that will be installed on the old system and given away as a hand-me-down. Just wonder if anyone has gone through this type of situation, will it let me validate the new install while I still have it installed on the old machine? Or will I have to wipe that old machine before being able to validate the new one?

[bryan]

Hey guys what is the latest 'it' case?

Also, entertaining thoughts of upgrading. Any idea on Intel's roadmap? Wanna upgrade in time for BF3. Currently have a E8400 oc'ed to 3.7 on air, paired with a 6970. Read some conflicting opinions as to whether I'm CPU bottlenecked or not. Thoughts?

[LiquidRain]

Easy way to tell if you're CPU bottlenecked: use a 2nd screen with task manager open. If both cores are pegged at 85+ percent, you're CPU bottlenecked.

I'd consider an i5-2500k regardless, though, and overclock that to 3.7GHz on air. (a 3.7GHz i5-2500 is significantly faster than a 3.7GHz C2D, even if only running a single core app) I say that simply because Intel's new chips will not be coming out in time for BF3's launch, if I remember correctly, so whether you upgrade now or when BF3 comes out makes no difference.

[burger]

Easy way to tell if you're CPU bottlenecked: use a 2nd screen with task manager open. If both cores are pegged at 85+ percent, you're CPU bottlenecked..

That doesn't make sense since the CPU's weren't at 100%. Clearly they have room to breath at 85%.

Anything less than 100% indicates IO or GPU bottlenecks.

[LiquidRain]

That doesn't make sense since the CPU's weren't at 100%. Clearly they have room to breath at 85%.

Anything less than 100% indicates IO or GPU bottlenecks.
The CPU will have to wait for the GPU to do its work before being given control of the game threads again. (and what if he runs double-buffered vsync, limiting the frames per second the game renders, etc.)

It's rare for a game to hit full CPU speed - that's why CPU stress test tools are useful for temperature burn-in.

(edit) Are you being sarcastic...? If so and you're trying to point out that I pulled 85% out of my ass then yeah you've got it, I basically did pull 85% out of my ass. :p It's not a scientific process.

[burger]

The CPU will have to wait for the GPU to do its work before being given control of the game threads again. (and what if he runs double-buffered vsync, limiting the frames per second the game renders, etc.)

It's rare for a game to hit full CPU speed - that's why CPU stress test tools are useful for temperature burn-in.

If it's waiting for something else than it isn't the bottleneck...when an application is given top priority by the OS and the CPU isn't at 100% then it isn't a bottleneck.

[bryan]

Easy way to tell if you're CPU bottlenecked: use a 2nd screen with task manager open. If both cores are pegged at 85+ percent, you're CPU bottlenecked.

I'd consider an i5-2500k regardless, though, and overclock that to 3.7GHz on air. (a 3.7GHz i5-2500 is significantly faster than a 3.7GHz C2D, even if only running a single core app) I say that simply because Intel's new chips will not be coming out in time for BF3's launch, if I remember correctly, so whether you upgrade now or when BF3 comes out makes no difference.

Thanks for this, exactly the answer I was looking for. And I think prices in general don't have much room to fall, what do you think?

[resikel]

Any idea on Intel's roadmap?

http://i1-news.softpedia-static.com/images/news2/Leaked-Intel-Roadmap-Confirms-Ivy-Bridge-Q2-2012-Launch-3.png

[digitalErich]

Intel's new chips will not be coming out in time for BF3's launch, if I remember correctly, so whether you upgrade now or when BF3 comes out makes no difference.
This is good info. I'll be building a new rig for all the fall's new games, and I was wondering when I can start putting it together with respect CPU and GPU roadmaps.

I know I can maximize savings putting it of a little longer, but I was thinking about putting together the rig in September. I can use Rage as an acid test.

Any big GPU revisions coming out before Nov?

[digitalErich]

Where did you get that roadmap from? I only ask because I thought Ivy Bridge was further out than that.

[bryan]

Where did you get that roadmap from? I only ask because I thought Ivy Bridge was further out than that.

It's leaked so take it with a grain of salt.

[resikel]

Where did you get that roadmap from? I only ask because I thought Ivy Bridge was further out than that.

http://news.softpedia.com/news/Leaked-Intel-Roadmap-Confirms-Ivy-Bridge-Q2-2012-Launch-202474.shtml

http://www.engadget.com/2011/05/30/intels-ivy-bridge-coming-q1-2012-growing-festive-moss-while-yo/

http://www.slashgear.com/intel-ivy-bridge-roadmap-reveals-launch-in-march-2012-30155647/

[digitalErich]

Cool, thanks. The older I get, the less likely I am to keep up with all this stuff between builds. I also don't hang out in IRC anymore, that probably has more to do with it.

[bryan]

TI know I can maximize savings putting it of a little longer, but I was thinking about putting together the rig in September. I can use Rage as an acid test.

Use the BF3 beta as the acid test. :)

Any big GPU revisions coming out before Nov?

Would like to know the answer to this too! Tho I just got this 6970.

[digitalErich]

I actually want to have my rig dialed in by the beta, which is why I'm thinking of a Sept build.

[resikel]

Would like to know the answer to this too! Tho I just got this 6970.

http://cdn5.tweaktown.com/news/1/6/16834_001.jpg

Kepler's release is planned for 2011, with products using the core coming later in the year. Kepler is planned to be based around a 28nm fabrication process with three times more efficiency in DP FLOPS per watt than Fermi's architecture. Maxwell, slated for 2013, will be based on a 22nm fabrication process with eight times the efficiency of Fermi. These improvements will not only be based on core design, but changes in chip architecture, design, and software as well.


Each new major architecture update will come with a complete GPU product refresh within three months of release, with a "mid-life kicker" in between to enhance the existing microarchitecture. Fermi's "kicker" is scheduled for next year.

http://www.tweaktown.com/news/16834/nvidia_releases_roadmap_for_2011_and_2013_gpus/index.html

[digitalErich]

Yeah, might be worth waiting based on that GPU data. I think I'll use the summer to shop around for two new monitors...going back to dual screen again with this build. This rig was built when I lived in NYC and space was at a premium.

Edit: thanks for all this info btw resikel

[JPicasso]

Looks like a few of us will be buying new rigs for this fall's game lineup... okay, I'll probably only play BF3.

Since Intel's and AMD's new stuff won't really be out until 2012, I'm in for an i5-2500k.
I think I'm good picking out components except in the motherboard area. Does anyone have any suggestions as to model / brand and features that are must haves?

Thanks

[iHap]

JPicasso: I usually either go with Gigabyte, or ASUS for the brand of Motherboard. I went with Gigabyte with my new build that I just put together last night. Look for LGA 1155 with a P67 Northbridge.

[Wackman3000]

Would you guys pay an extra $40 for this mobo:

http://www.ncix.com/products/?sku=61183

over this one:

http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=59319&promoid=1339

The reason I ask is because the top mobo right now is bundled with an i5-2500k for $389.00 right now on NCIX, and the total of the 2nd mobo + i5-2500k is $349.

Thoughts?

[LiquidRain]

I'd pay the extra $40 to give the more expensive motherboard a nice retirement path to a HTPC/server, since you'll be able to use the onboard graphics card. If you don't care about the retirement path, go with the less expensive option. There may also be less expensive Z68 options available. (that's all the Z68 does - enable onboard graphics *and* overclocking)

[iHap]

I put together my PC last night and played a few games. Most notably The Witcher 2 with all settings enabled and it's highest setting (except for motion blur) it ran like butter with muscly legs.

I can't wait to play BF3 with this awesome setup. Because I can I am using the HDMI port from my video card to monitor. :)

[PathMaster]

Maximum PC (http://www.maximumpc.com/article/features/how_build_kick-ass_gaming_rig_under_700)has created a guide for creating a Gaming rig for under $700.

[digitalErich]

Since it doesn't look like we'll be seeing any major CPU or GPU refreshes before this fall, I think I might slowly start to put my new rig together over the next few weeks. Not that I think it will take a beast to run, but it will be nice to have a new rig for RO2 (can't wait, looks awesome).

Question for the thread: Has anyone been really happy with a recent monitor purchase? Bonus points if it has a thin bezel as I'm going back to dual monitors.

Now to hunt for a nice case that isn't totally embarrassing...

[Shadowstorm]

I use P2450s from Samsung but they seem to be running out of supply on Amazon and Newegg now for whatever reason. As far as the case, check out the P182/3 or if you prefer the rugged/industrialized look (like I do), look into the full tower HAF 932 / 942; there's also the mid tower flavor to consider. The Storm Scout is also a great case.

I ended up springing for a SSD tonight. I opted for the Corsair C300 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820148348) in conjunction with a 2.5" -> 3.5" adapter (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817994064). This drive will be my first SSD ever so I am really looking forward to seeing the performance difference.

[Xerxes]

Maximum PC (http://www.maximumpc.com/article/features/how_build_kick-ass_gaming_rig_under_700)has created a guide for creating a Gaming rig for under $700.

Do not like. I mean for another hundred and some creative shopping, you'd be set. Not only a step up in class of parts but you could also get a higher grade of parts.

[digitalErich]

I use P2450s from Samsung but they seem to be running out of supply on Amazon and Newegg now for whatever reason. As far as the case, check out the P182/3 or if you prefer the rugged/industrialized look (like I do), look into the full tower HAF 932 / 942; there's also the mid tower flavor to consider. The Storm Scout is also a great case.
Thanks for the recommendations. I've been browsing Newegg the past hour and it seems cases are uglier than ever right now.

I have a Coolermaster Cosmos now (I know, ironic), so yeah, I want to switch back to a mid tower :) Those HAFs go over my threshold for neon bullshit anyway.

I like the P182 and the Storm Scout (you can turn the fan colors completely off, nice). The P182 looks better and has a USB 3.0 on the front panel, but the Storm is cheaper and looks to have better air flow...tough call right now.

[LiquidRain]

The P182 is a monster. If you like the style of the P182 but want it in a half-tower format, you have to shrink down to the (excellent) Mini-P180. It's my case of choice.

[digitalErich]

I have a full tower now (Cosmos) so even a mid-tower is a step down for me.

For a mini-tower that P180 looks really airy...I'm not going to have anything more than a vid card, SSD, and HDD so it might be an option. I'm not planning over overclocking anyway, outside of maybe a pre-oc'd video card, depending on the model I go with.

Edit:Hmm, some of the video cards I'm looking at are two slots high...that doesn't leave much room in a mini case for good airflow.

[LiquidRain]

The Mini-P180 has arguably the best airflow for any case for video cards. A gigantic 120mm sits centimetres away from the air intake of 2-slot cards, and the large 200mm fan on the top of the case can either act as exhaust or intake. The thing cools like a beast. The only thing you might be unhappy about is the fact that it only takes Micro-ATX mobos, but really, unless you go crossfire/SLI (and you shouldn't) you're not using more than 1 or 2 PCIe cards anyway.

[digitalErich]

Awesome, good to know. I found some completed build pictures using this case late last night and they looked less crowded than I thought they would, so I'll likely go with this case. There was even an SLI build I saw(not for me). I guess I'll have to pick out a new motherboard now :)

[Xerxes]

G.SKILL Ripjaws X Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Desktop Memory Model F3-12800CL8D-8GBXM (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231445&nm_mc=EMC-IGNEFL062111&cm_mmc=EMC-IGNEFL062111-_-EMC-062111-Index-_-DesktopMemory-_-20231445-L04D)

$75 if I had need for 16GB i'd get another set. But I don't so I won't. Works great on my Asus board though. :)

[GigaFuzz]

For those looking for a nice case, I'm a fan of the Corsair 600T (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811139003&cm_re=600t-_-11-139-003-_-Product). It's big, but it's roomy as hell and the cable management seems pretty great. I don't have one myself, but I've fancied one, and my flatmate built his new PC in one and I'm pretty jealous. It's also not particularly garish looking, a rare sight it seems these days.

[digitalErich]

Liquid what kind of motherboard and CPU cooler are you running in your p180 case? I tend to like Asus or Gigabyte for motherboards and there isn't a mini-ATX motherboard from either that immediately jumps out at me just yet.

I'm also not sure which CPU coolers would have spacing issues so any real world experience on this part would be welcome.

[Shjinta]

G.SKILL Ripjaws X Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Desktop Memory Model F3-12800CL8D-8GBXM (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231445&nm_mc=EMC-IGNEFL062111&cm_mmc=EMC-IGNEFL062111-_-EMC-062111-Index-_-DesktopMemory-_-20231445-L04D)

$75 if I had need for 16GB i'd get another set. But I don't so I won't. Works great on my Asus board though. :)

You know, I'm really starting to question why I got 16GB of ram for my system.. I barely use 2-3GB of it. I haven't started video editing yet though.

[digitalErich]

It's the same reason anyone ever has too much RAM...it was cheap when you built your system :)

[bryan]

Any thoughts on Bulldozer?

[Spectre-7]

Any thoughts on Bulldozer?

Not much to say yet, as information is still scarce on the ground. AMD just showed 1U server with 2 16-core Bulldozers at ISC today (http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/2080551/amd-demonstrates-core-bulldozer-server), but not many specifics came out of the demonstration, and it's starting to look like we won't know much for sure until September.

The first iteration of Bulldozer-based CPUs will be called “Zambezi” – targeted for high-end desktops – and will introduce enthusiast level eight-core models (FX8000), followed by six-core (FX6000) and four-core (FX4000) models. Relatively speaking, the eight-core processors are projected to offer up to 50% performance increases in multimedia over the current Phenom II series.

Looks like the unlocked 8-core will debut at $320, and will ship in a tin box... and that's about all that's public right now.

[bryan]

Oh thanks heaps for the info :) Someone mentioned it to me but I see now it's not worth waiting for as I wanna upgrade by September. (For BF3) Sandy Bridge here I come!

[Xerxes]

You know, I'm really starting to question why I got 16GB of ram for my system.. I barely use 2-3GB of it. I haven't started video editing yet though.

I wanted to wait until that. But who the fuck knows when that will be. $75 bucks for that ram would be a good price. Like digitalErich said, now the only reason I consider it for the price.

I'll wait though.

[Shjinta]

I wanted to wait until that. But who the fuck knows when that will be. $75 bucks for that ram would be a good price. Like digitalErich said, now the only reason I consider it for the price.

I'll wait though.

Yeah price was one of the reasons I grabbed it. It was fucking dirt cheap.. So cheap NCIX went nuts cause they sold out of them so fast. With WoW running i'm using 3.36gb of it lol.

[aeolusm]

http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/327/angryunicornandherbfaga.jpg

[Crittias]

Yeah price was one of the reasons I grabbed it. It was fucking dirt cheap..

http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/327/angryunicornandherbfaga.jpg
Apparently your discussion of excess RAM triggered an e-peen alarm, which required the need to advertise supplements for your non-e-peen. Why buy more RAM, when you can use our Super-Viagra and get to the REAL RAMming?

[Arphahat]

OK, I am looking at picking up another monitor or two (need one for my daughter's computer and am considering a second screen for me.)

I currently have a Syncmaster PX2370 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824001414) and it is nice enough that I was thinking of picking up another, currently $269 at NewEgg.

But, while looking there, I found another Samsung monitor, the BX2331 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824001439), currently $219 at Newegg.

I don't see the difference in these monitors other than the price. Anyone have any insight as to why one is so much more and if one is better than the other?

[resikel]

OK, I am looking at picking up another monitor or two (need one for my daughter's computer and am considering a second screen for me.)

I currently have a Syncmaster PX2370 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824001414) and it is nice enough that I was thinking of picking up another, currently $269 at NewEgg.

But, while looking there, I found another Samsung monitor, the BX2331 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824001439), currently $219 at Newegg.

I don't see the difference in these monitors other than the price. Anyone have any insight as to why one is so much more and if one is better than the other?

Connector and weight.

[LiquidRain]

Liquid what kind of motherboard and CPU cooler are you running in your p180 case? I tend to like Asus or Gigabyte for motherboards and there isn't a mini-ATX motherboard from either that immediately jumps out at me just yet.

I'm also not sure which CPU coolers would have spacing issues so any real world experience on this part would be welcome.
I'm rocking an overclocked i5-2500k underneath a Scythe Mugen 2 on an ASUS P8P67-M Pro. There are zero issues for CPU clearance in this case.

[digitalErich]

I'm rocking an overclocked i5-2500k underneath a Scythe Mugen 2 on an ASUS P8P67-M Pro. There are zero issues for CPU clearance in this case.

Awesome, I might steal this build outright, except to go with the newer Mugen and an i7 CPU. Thanks for answering all my questions, appreciate it.

Stinks that the case doesn't have a front panel USB 3.0, but meh...I can't even think of when I'll own a 3.0 device anyway.

Edit: I just watched a demo for Asus' UEFI...that stuff is bananas. I'm sold on this motherboard.

[digitalErich]

Ordered the p180 case from Amazon (getting low on stock so I jumped on it), now I just have to figure out the rest of the parts

Liquid, how did you mount your CPU cooler? I've always mounted mine so that the fan pushes through the sink and into the rear exhaust, but with this massive blowhole fan in this case, I'm wondering if there are sinks that allow for a fan to push up through the metal and into the blow hole.

I guess with that you run the risk of pushing hot air from the video card over the cpu sink...I've have to look into CPU coolers a bit more carefully.

[iHap]

Heat naturally "rises" up so it may be better if you point the CPU fan up into the blowhole fan.

[digitalErich]

Heat naturally "rises" up so it may be better if you point the CPU fan up into the blowhole fan.
That was my first thought, but like I said, I might end up pulling hot air from the video card, which if that were the case would be far negate any advantage I'd get.

Liquid: Two more questions about your build...what brand/series PSU are you using? I was reading in some of the user reviews that in order to take advantage of that rear panel wiring harness (which I do) you have to make sure the motherboard power cables from your PSU are long enough...seems like some people had issues with this.

Also, what disc drive are you using? It's the same reason, sizing issues...I want to be able to take that bottom drive bay harness out and put a 120mm fan there for intake so I want to make sure the disc drive, SSD, and HDD can all be fit above that.

[LiquidRain]

I mounted mine in a push-pull fashion, traditionally, and flipped the top fan to blow inwards as intake and put it on its lowest setting. The only disadvantage is that the top fan isn't filtered, so you will have to clean the PC out regularly.

If you want to try something untraditional, and it's something I'm thinking about, is to have the rear exhaust be intake, put a fan on top of the CPU fan pulling up, and have the top fan be the master exhaust for the case. Warning: Will only work if your GPU has a direct exhaust cooler. (like mine :D )

[Bone]

Yeah, in my head I don't see it behaving that much differently whether you create an back-to-up flow or traditional front to back one. With heat always rising off the GPU, some of that heat is going to enter the CPU's airflow even with the old typical way of doing things. I love messing with my airflow design too so it's a worthwhile discussion- although I've never done a good scientific test of temp differences because once it's setup it usually stays that way until the next rig is built :)

[digitalErich]

The idea I have in my head is to have 120s front and back with the traditional intake front, exhaust back. The blowhole will run on low-ish settings (for noise) and kick any heat that naturally rises and whatever it can sap from the CPU sink.

The question is where to push the CPU heat...along the direction of the wind tunnel (traditional) or out the top. I suppose this really will depend on which gfx card I get what and cooling that thing has. I'm currently working through amazon and newegg to get my components picked out...haven't gotten to graphics yet.

[LiquidRain]

Ahh, one gotcha of the P180 is that you can't have an intake fan where you have hard drives. :)

Honestly I'd probably recommend my setup, but keep the top fan as exhaust to avoid dust clogging. That is: the top HDD bay has no intake since you can't fit a fan in there, the bottom HDD is intake for the GPU. Put the CPU fan facing towards the rear (which will pull air over your HDDs at the top), keep the rear as exhaust to act as the pull factor for the CPU heatsink.

[digitalErich]

This is what I was thinking, except just one intake. I'll remove that bottom slide-out drive housing and put a fan there, like this guy did.

The SSD and HDD will be mounted in that top housing. I have to make sure I find a shorter disc drive as I'll have to make sure it fits in that top bay.

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51PDdO7%2B%2BkL.jpg

[digitalErich]

All of this looks like it might be moot anyway. I'm looking at getting a Coolermaster Hyper 212 Plus (http://www.amazon.com/Cooler-Master-Hyper-Sleeve-RR-B10-212P-G1/dp/B002G1YPH0/ref=cm_cmu_pg__header) for my heat sink (love that the pipes are actually part of the base).

From what I can tell it only mounts such that the air flow is horizontal.

Is Arctic Silver still the way to go?

Edit: I'm a moron, I used a Tuniq on the computer I'm typing this on, and those have vertical airflow. I might just go with their latest revision (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=35-154-014&SortField=0&SummaryType=0&Pagesize=10&PurchaseMark=&SelectedRating=-1&VideoOnlyMark=False&VendorMark=&IsFeedbackTab=true&Page=2#scrollFullInfo)...more pipes than the 212 anyway.

[Shadowstorm]

Never had problems with Arctic Silver.

[Wackman3000]

On the topic of Arctic Silver, does the stuff go bad?

I still have a tube of it that I used with my first build a few years back now that I haven't used since that day.

[iHap]

On the topic of Arctic Silver, does the stuff go bad?

I still have a tube of it that I used with my first build a few years back now that I haven't used since that day.

It never goes bad unless you had removed the heatsink. If it's been locked in place since you put it on you won't need to replace the stuff.

[LiquidRain]

I think he means it's been in the tube. Same answer: it doesn't go bad unless it's been exposed to air.

[digitalErich]

Here's my first pass, without trying to save money anywhere...anyone see any blatant overspending? I know the PSU is more than I need, but I wanted a silver rated since I'll be overclocking a little. Apologies for the Amazon links, they were cheaper than Newegg.

Case: Antec P180 (http://www.amazon.com/Antec-Mini-P180-Case/dp/B001450OMO/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1308873743&sr=8-1)
PSU: Corsair CMPSU-750HX (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0029F21LK/ref=ox_sc_act_title_10?ie=UTF8&m=ATVPDKIKX0DER)

Motherboard: ASUS P8P67-M PRO (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004QF0VEK/ref=ox_sc_act_title_2?ie=UTF8&m=ATVPDKIKX0DER)
CPU: Intel Core i7-2600K (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004EBUXSA/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?ie=UTF8&m=ATVPDKIKX0DER)
Sink: TUNIQ TOWER 120 (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00475M9LW/ref=ox_sc_act_title_6?ie=UTF8&m=A23NVCSO4PYH3S)
Memory: Corsair Dominator 8 GB (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003KWYI8K/ref=ox_sc_act_title_8?ie=UTF8&m=ATVPDKIKX0DER)
Videocard: MSI N570GTX Twin Frozr III (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004XVMAKU/ref=ox_sc_act_title_9?ie=UTF8&m=ATVPDKIKX0DER)

SSD: OCZ 120 GB Agility 3 SSD- 3G SATA 6.0 (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004Z0S6SO/ref=ox_sc_act_title_2?ie=UTF8&m=ATVPDKIKX0DER)
HDD: WD Caviar Black 1 TB SATA 6 (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0036Q7MV0/ref=ox_sc_act_title_3?ie=UTF8&m=ATVPDKIKX0DER)
DVD: Lite-On LightScribe 24X SATA DVD+/-RW (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002SIMPXM/ref=ox_sc_act_title_4?ie=UTF8&m=ATVPDKIKX0DER)

Misc..
SSD bracket (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002BH3Z8E/ref=ox_sc_act_title_5?ie=UTF8&m=ATVPDKIKX0DER)
Arctic Silver 5 Thermal Paste (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002CZAPUQ/ref=ox_sc_act_title_7?ie=UTF8&m=A1T6QWFP3DN90C)
2 x Scythe Slip Stream 120 mm Fans (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000W7NGWK/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?ie=UTF8&m=A23NVCSO4PYH3S)

Anyone have any experience with overclocking and the RAM I chose?

[Xerxes]

Could save some bucks with a 650HX. Then you could get a NH-D14 sink. I put a 212+ in for like $20.

Solid machine but why the M Pro?

[digitalErich]

I went with the 750 because it's silver rated, not for the extra power. I know the wattage is overkill but the EE in me likes cleaner power.

I had a 212+ as my first sink and that NH is really nice, but all the anecdotal evidence says this one is just as good as a 212+ and the Tuniq shoots air up...I'm still debating the up vs out-the-back for CPU cooling.

I can't recall why I went with the M Pro...I thought there was a reason, but for the life of my I can't recall what it was.

Edit: I guess you can mount that NH-D14 vertically...I'm a little nervous trying to fit that onto a m-ATX board...my memory has heat-spreaders.

[LiquidRain]

He's got an M Pro because I have an M Pro. And I have an M Pro because it's the only Micro ATX motherboard I found that is all-PCI Express. If somebody's got the money I would actually recommend a Z68 board, as it provides a nice, comfortable, quiet retirement path for a PC since you can make use of the onboard graphics. And if you don't need a full complement of PCIe slots and don't intend on overclocking, you can definitely spring for a much cheaper motherboard.

[digitalErich]

I think I will try that Nocuta CPU cooler, I confirmed people have fit it in that case. My CPU fan was one of the loudest components on my current computer so this will be something new to try.

Edit: parts ordered, but the video card is keeping everything from getting here until the middle of next week. I'll post with built and overclocking results that weekend.

[digitalErich]

This sink is the biggest cooler I've ever seen...it's the size of my head

That's my Ipad next to it.

http://images.instagram.com/media/2011/06/29/02ac24c416f24e559b78ff2d6eb79f35_7.jpg

[Xerxes]

Holy shit. I thought the 212+ was big.

[digitalErich]

Yeah, it's so big that I'm not sure I can fit it in there, the spreaders on my RAM are giving me issues. It has an asynchronous orientation so I'll have to play with it more later tonight.

[digitalErich]

Yep, too big by just a bit...so it's either order a 212+ or trim a couple of the fins on the sink to slot it in next to the RAM.

[digitalErich]

This build is more heat sink than computer....these Noctua fans, totally worth it. I'm glad a got a couple extra to replace my case fans.

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/261681_10150233422436860_645186859_7890592_3378747 _n.jpg

[Xerxes]

The shit looks so awesome. I want one but this Asus board. Ugh! The memory is right up under the heat sink. Pretty sure I can't do another 8GIG without raising the fans so they are half assed on there.

[digitalErich]

Yeah, I had to trim the bottom two fins off of the right side of that sink. Liquid fit a Mugen in just fine and I'm sure you could install a 212+ without mods, but I didn't want to wait another two days to try out my parts.

[bryan]

Haha that's gigantic! I would think twice about trying to mount it myself, guess it's ok if your set up is such that your mobo is flat horizontal. And I'm no expert but that lack of space between the CPU and vid card doesn't look good.

[digitalErich]

Vid card has a massive pipe system and two fans that vent out the bottom...the part close to the sink is just board.

[bryan]

Nice, so no case that's how you have it 24/7?

On my 6970 that side of the board is naked PCB. I'm more worried about heat being trapped in there.

[Karak]

This build is more heat sink than computer....these Noctua fans, totally worth it. I'm glad a got a couple extra to replace my case fans.

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/261681_10150233422436860_645186859_7890592_3378747 _n.jpg

Best coolers ever:) It is the only thing keeping my "old" i7920 at 4.1 without lighting on fire. Such an amazing cooler and whisper quiet which is great. But big...ya big.

[digitalErich]

Nice, so no case that's how you have it 24/7?

On my 6970 that side of the board is naked PCB. I'm more worried about heat being trapped in there.

No, I just bread-boarded it to test out all the parts before I take the time to put it in the case and get all nice with the cabling.

[digitalErich]

Got it boxed up this morning. Working with a case that isn't a full tower was a bit of a pain, but once I got everything in place, this looks like it's going to get great airflow.

http://a.yfrog.com/img616/2633/haufl.jpg

[resikel]

Got it boxed up this morning. Working with a case that isn't a full tower was a bit of a pain, but once I got everything in place, this looks like it's going to get great airflow.

http://a.yfrog.com/img616/2633/haufl.jpg

That looks loud. Is it?

[bryan]

Nice and neat dude, impressive! What case did you put it in?

and damn you are not getting at your RAM without pulling that HSF off are you?

[digitalErich]

That looks loud. Is it?
It's probably the quietest computer I've every built. Those 3 ugly beige and red fans are Noctua fans. Very pricey but very, very quiet for how much air they can move. The Corsair PSU is silent and that blowhole fan is a 3 speed and is near silent on low.

The two fans on the MSI card are dead silent...I had to check that they were on when I had it out in the open.

Nice and neat dude, impressive! What case did you put it in?

and damn you are not getting at your RAM without pulling that HSF off are you?

Antec P180, the one that Liquid recommended. The HSF does cover the first two slots, but I have 8 GB in there already, so unless the first stick fails, it's not something I'll have to deal with now.

[digitalErich]

My last rig used a CoolerMaster Cosmos (massive) and was built for power with no regard to sound or size, so part of the appeal of this built was the experimentation...trying to go (relatively) small and silent while still building a powerful machine.

I doubt most people will want to spend $12-15 on one case fan :)

The only reason that blowhole fan isn't a Noctua is because they don't make that size.

[resikel]

My previous computer was a server class machine from Intel, which I got for half price because I went to one of their promo class. That baby was loud as fuck, not as loud as a leaf blower but just as bad considering it was a foot away from me.

My current machine, which is about 3 years old, is super quite. I can leave it on and still fall asleep.

[bryan]

Hey guys what's a good mini tower? Was thinking of moving my old parts after upgrade to a smaller case to give to my gf.

[LiquidRain]

If you have Mini-ITX, take a look at Lian Li or Silverstone's offerings.

[resikel]

I have this sexy thing:

http://www.overclockers.co.uk/pimg/CA-153-LL_400.jpg

[bryan]

Sekzi indeed. :D Thanks guys will look into it.

Don't have mini itx, mobo is ATX.

[Entropy]

I have this sexy thing:

http://www.overclockers.co.uk/pimg/CA-153-LL_400.jpg

Awesome looking case!

[Lance Uppercut]

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811112218&cm_re=lian_li_case-_-11-112-218-_-Product

What resikel said. It's an ATX mini-tower, so it'll fit standard-sized parts as it's surprisingly roomy inside.

[Dualshotty23]

Well got back form my honeymoon to find that my motherboard took a dive so im going to just upgrade my system and heres what im looking at piecing together. Im going to use these parts from my previous build.

- Corsair tx750 watt power supply
- hardrives
- cd drives
- antec 900 case
- 2x2gb corsair ddr3 1333mhz ram

I have 650 to spend and i would like to upgrade the mother board, video card, and processor. and be capable of running bf3 and so on. so heres what im planning on buying.

Motherboard - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128498

CPU - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115072

Video Card - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814150550

Let me know if im slacking somewhere or if i should re-appropriate my funding.

thanks guys.

[TheKeck]

Quick question. All the video cards these days seem to support PCIe 2.0. I'm assuming my three year old computer only has PCIe 1.0. Are the 2.0 cards backward compatible, I'm guessing? Is it a total waste to put a 2.0 card in an older mother board?

I haven't been following the tech at all since getting my last system, but I'm starting to get the bug again.

[LiquidRain]

Backwards compatible.

[TheKeck]

Backwards compatible.
Thanks!

Any input on my second question? If I were to just upgrade my video card instead of getting a whole new system, would I be short changing myself in a major way because of this?


Edit: Rereading my last post, I can see how my second question is kind of ambiguous (as if I were just rewording my original question.) What I mean to say is, do you take a major performance hit on what a video card is capable of if you don't have a PCIe 2.0 slot?

[LiquidRain]

Nope, in fact I don't think we've hit bandwidth saturation on the PCIe 1.0 16x standard yet anyway. Upgrade away.

[TheKeck]

Sweet, thanks.

[Crittias]

Been using my wife's new laptop, the Samsung Series 9 NP900X3A while on vacation for two weeks. So far, so good. The SSD provides fast startup times, and the screen and keyboard are excellent. It's ridiculously light and thin, and battery life seems pretty good. We really haven't put it through its paces in terms of hard-core processing, but once we get back to work, we'll get her statistical analysis software installed and see how it grinds on heavy math.

[Karak]

So I must say.

The trade off from the ATI 5850 that I used to use to the Nvidia 570gtx, is not only speed which is nice. But I can not even stress how much better the drivers are for the Nvidia. Jezuz its like night and day. So happy.

[resikel]

So I must say.

The trade off from the ATI 5850 that I used to use to the Nvidia 570gtx, is not only speed which is nice. But I can not even stress how much better the drivers are for the Nvidia. Jezuz its like night and day. So happy.

I made the switched to nVidia about a decade ago because of this. ATI stuff just feels like bloatware.

[Karak]

I made the switched to nVidia about a decade ago because of this. ATI stuff just feels like bloatware.

Well I admit I switched back and forth uhm 4 no 5 times now hahaha.

ATI 8500le got me into ATI, still remember hacking that thing to turn on the other pipelines, then the gt8800 got me to jump to nvidia, but the 4870 then the 5850 saw me leap back to ATI's camp.

A driver fiasco finally got tracked down to ATI and CCC drivers so I made the jump AGAIN.

[bryan]

I guess people have different experiences, I've gone from 4870 5870 to 6970 with no problems. Before that I was using Nvidia as well. Nvidia does feel a bit more slick, but otherwise no great drama with ATI.

[Shadowstorm]

Just a friendly FYI guys, you can get a WD 2TB Black internal HDD (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136792) w/ 64MB of cache for $130 with the promo code EMCKCHJ22 at Newegg. Promo code expires next week.

[digitalErich]

Driver support is what keeps me coming back to Nvidia as well, even at times when ATI has had the performance edge.

[Karak]

I guess people have different experiences, I've gone from 4870 5870 to 6970 with no problems. Before that I was using Nvidia as well. Nvidia does feel a bit more slick, but otherwise no great drama with ATI.

Well ya. Otherwise it would be a BORING world hahaahahaha:)

Ya things happen. ATI is known for shoddy driver(s) and support, doesn't mean it won't work.
Like the 5850, I loved that card, then CCC corrupted and without going into 10 pages of dialogue I was stuck with what could almost be described as a virus. A file that would NOT remove itself, was in the cab files, was overwriting ANY new driver, and refused to be uninstalled. After checking out forums where many others were getting it, I was faced with format or switch.
So I switched as formatting would have cost me more time and money in music software licenses that I was willing to shell out.

But before that the 5850 was awesome, the 4890 was insane..INSANE the 8500le was a hackable little beast. I am a fan of their hardware, just not their drivers. I mean damn, I didn't even know I wasn't getting the best performance from ATI due to CCC stating one thing but actually having the drivers actually running different settings. So weird.

Thanks to Radeonpro I figured that one out:)

If either hardware/software works for someone I am happy. I just am glad I don't have to deal with it anymore.

[resikel]

I think that's the sentiment with ATI. Great hardware but shitty drivers, which negates the benefits of making a great piece of hardware.

[Karak]

I think that's the sentiment with ATI. Great hardware but shitty drivers, which negates the benefits of making a great piece of hardware.

One of these days, they will get it right. I truly believe that. Hell some of the old hacked drivers were BULLET PROOF. Hire Omega, or some of the others who did hackjobs. Have them fix CCC and curb it down to maybe 1-2 running processes, and fix the dreaded underclocked duel monitor issue and they are well on their way.

The 4890 bought a TON of loyalty from me. My god.

[bryan]

I really just buy what's best bang for buck, and unfortunately that hasn't been Nvidia for a while now. If it changes with Kepler I'll buy their stuff again for sure.

[digitalErich]

Has anyone bought a 570 card they really like lately? This MSI Frozr III is a nice card, but I'm getting random video driver crashes. I've done my due diligence and it has to be card. A handful of other reports on their forums show that I'm not the only one with this problem.

I'd order a replacement but it's out of stock at Amazon with no expected date and I don't want to risk running out the return policy and being stuck with this card.

[J Arcane]

I'll admit it, I'm pretty much an ATI loyalist. There's something about their hardware that always seems to keep pulling that last bit of horsepower well past the point I should've had to upgrade. I had a Radeon 7200 last me like 5 years.

It has gotten a bit hard to find a good manufacturer since they stopped building them in-house though. I've had bad luck with all of them so far except XFX.

[Karak]

Has anyone bought a 570 card they really like lately? This MSI Frozr III is a nice card, but I'm getting random video driver crashes. I've done my due diligence and it has to be card. A handful of other reports on their forums show that I'm not the only one with this problem.

I'd order a replacement but it's out of stock at Amazon with no expected date and I don't want to risk running out the return policy and being stuck with this card.

The 570gtx I have is amazing.
What monitor setup do you have.
I have duels and in XP it doesn't like them, I get a couple weird issues that I can work around. In Windows 7 it works fine as long as you ALWAYS turn off power saving in the Nvidia profile. But that should be done no matter what.
No crashes, no nothing so far. Mine is an EVGA overclocked by 75/134 for core/memory.

[digitalErich]

Dual monitors in Windows 7. I wasn't aware that Nvidia power savings causes issues. I doubt it's related to what I'm seeing but I'll check.

Also, where are these power profiles stored? I'm not seeing anything in the Nvidia Control Panel.

[iHap]

I am using the nvidia 570 with an 8800gts sli'd up in my rig with dual monitors setup. It's been running great and have had no issues yet on the performance of the machine.

[Karak]

Dual monitors in Windows 7. I wasn't aware that Nvidia power savings causes issues. I doubt it's related to what I'm seeing but I'll check.

Also, where are these power profiles stored? I'm not seeing anything in the Nvidia Control Panel.

Sorry it is in the global panel and is in all the GFX drop downs. Its something like, "Power management." Put it on performance. THat's what people suggested to me when I was having random issues, but ya mine were not driver fails. Mine were weird flickering. And it fixed them.

All in all I adore the card,

[Entropy]

Has anyone bought a 570 card they really like lately? This MSI Frozr III is a nice card, but I'm getting random video driver crashes. I've done my due diligence and it has to be card. A handful of other reports on their forums show that I'm not the only one with this problem.

I'd order a replacement but it's out of stock at Amazon with no expected date and I don't want to risk running out the return policy and being stuck with this card.

I returned mine...got a 6970 instead and it screams...zero issues with it


I am using the nvidia 570 with an 8800gts sli'd up in my rig with dual monitors setup. It's been running great and have had no issues yet on the performance of the machine.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought when using SLI it was only as fast as your slowest card so you basically have 2x8800...in this case your 570 is being severely gimped by the 8800. Does it not work that way?

[iHap]

Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought when using SLI it was only as fast as your slowest card so you basically have 2x8800...in this case your 570 is being severely gimped by the 8800. Does it not work that way?

With nvidia cards you can use a lower end card to handle the physx stuff when it's available in games. If a game doesn't have physx then the card disables itself in a way so the 570 isn't gimped either way.

[Entropy]

With nvidia cards you can use a lower end card to handle the physx stuff when it's available in games. If a game doesn't have physx then the card disables itself in a way so the 570 isn't gimped either way.

Cool...I didn't realize that....I have been corrected ;)

[digitalErich]

Karak can you post the model you have? There are a few o/c's EVGAs out there.

Edit: Also, does EVGA provide software to tinker with the card? While not the prettiest thing out there, MSI's Afterburner is a slick little program that exposes a lot of the card's settings.

I wish Amazon would just get more of these in stock I can just replace it but I think I might be getting close to the deadline here.

[Karak]

Karak can you post the model you have? There are a few o/c's EVGAs out there.

Edit: Also, does EVGA provide software to tinker with the card? While not the prettiest thing out there, MSI's Afterburner is a slick little program that exposes a lot of the card's settings.

I wish Amazon would just get more of these in stock I can just replace it but I think I might be getting close to the deadline here.

Yep it offers Precision for overclocking, profiles(not what I was talking about with the power management) and a good deal of other items. Pretty much exactly like Afterburner which I used for my 5850.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004L9LT24

And sorry if I wrote it confusingly. I overclocked it myself. I didn't buy it overclocked.

[Karak]

Karak can you post the model you have? There are a few o/c's EVGAs out there.

Edit: Also, does EVGA provide software to tinker with the card? While not the prettiest thing out there, MSI's Afterburner is a slick little program that exposes a lot of the card's settings.

I wish Amazon would just get more of these in stock I can just replace it but I think I might be getting close to the deadline here.

Also I am seeing video card driver crash + 570 being related to Aero in Windows 7. Did you try turning it off like they suggest. Looks like some people ran programs to see what was occuring and Aero is throwing errors and the driver gets reported as failing and crashes.

Just an FYI>

[LiquidRain]

Shitty ATI drivers.

Oh wait.

:)

(the nV vs ATI battle doesn't belong here, really, buy what you like/trust/etc)

[Karak]

Shitty ATI drivers.

Oh wait.

:)

(the nV vs ATI battle doesn't belong here, really, buy what you like/trust/etc)

*Longer version snipped* because I am tired and can't type and it sounded even more stupid than I usually do:)

But basically your last sentence is exactly what I assumed was occurring, aside from a snippet or two 2 days ago. Seems like its sort of normal to explain your recommendation by explaining why you like/trust/etc a product. I just, personally like to explain why I like/trust a product because otherwise it looks like a bunch of fanboys, especially when you are dealing with actual known issues.

But its all in the past.

Now I have a question for anyone on here who knows.

I am replacing my Intel SSD because I am not happy with its performance. But I CAN wait. Are there any suggestions for up and coming SSD's? Any new tech being developed for the next years products that would "require waiting." Budget is 400.00 and it will be Windows 7 32 most likely. I haven't been lucky with my 64bit version of Windows 7 and gaming so far.

[digitalErich]

I've been trying a bunch of things...playing with the o/c (even at stock 570 speeds I get these drops), updating my BIOS, trying some Beta video drivers, playing around with the card voltage (lots of reports of these Frozr IIIs shipping under-volted), turning off Aero, etc.

Thanks for the update on that card, I think all of these utilities are just front ends for RivaTuner anyway but it's nice to have the company's utility as they can build in their own limits they are comfortable with for their own hardware.

If I can't get the card stable by the end of next week and Amazon still doesn't have stock for a replacement, I'll be grabbing that card you have.

[Karak]

I've been trying a bunch of things...playing with the o/c (even at stock 570 speeds I get these drops), updating my BIOS, trying some Beta video drivers, playing around with the card voltage (lots of reports of these Frozr IIIs shipping under-volted), turning off Aero, etc.

Thanks for the update on that card, I think all of these utilities are just front ends for RivaTuner anyway but it's nice to have the company's utility as they can build in their own limits they are comfortable with for their own hardware.

If I can't get the card stable by the end of next week and Amazon still doesn't have stock for a replacement, I'll be grabbing that card you have.

Copy. I will keep looking I was REALLY hoping that it was Aero.

Hey sorry one question. This isn't the Opengl driver has stopped responding error is it?

PM me the answer. We can move the tech part out of this thread.

[digitalErich]

PM sent...you know what...let me try for a bit w/o Aero again. I'd ruled it out before but now that I think about it, that might have been at a lower voltage. Off to Bioshock 2.

Edit: Nope, it's not related Aero :)

[TrackZero]

I am replacing my Intel SSD because I am not happy with its performance. But I CAN wait. Are there any suggestions for up and coming SSD's? Any new tech being developed for the next years products that would "require waiting." Budget is 400.00 and it will be Windows 7 32 most likely. I haven't been lucky with my 64bit version of Windows 7 and gaming so far.

The OCZ Vertex 3 with the Sandforce (1200 or 1500) controller will completely saturate a SATA 2 interface. SATA 3 will even be getting pushed hard faster than they anticipated with the new Sandforce controller revision (500MB/s) coming out later this year, so if you have SATA 3, wait a bit. If you've got SATA 2, then get the Vertex 3.

[bryan]

Karak what sort of problems have you been having with Windows 7 64 bit? I just got 8 gig of RAM the other day and am waiting for my copy of 64 bit to arrive. Hope it's not a common problem!

[Karak]

The OCZ Vertex 3 with the Sandforce (1200 or 1500) controller will completely saturate a SATA 2 interface. SATA 3 will even be getting pushed hard faster than they anticipated with the new Sandforce controller revision (500MB/s) coming out later this year, so if you have SATA 3, wait a bit. If you've got SATA 2, then get the Vertex 3.

Excellent thank you for the information!

[Karak]

Karak what sort of problems have you been having with Windows 7 64 bit? I just got 8 gig of RAM the other day and am waiting for my copy of 64 bit to arrive. Hope it's not a common problem!

Just random games with weird crashes, or having to jump through alot of hoops for installs and so forth. I don't dislike Windows 7 64, but I don't think the world is ready:) I.E. SOME games. I think when you get someone like me who plays a huge amount of games, with many of them older titles like KOTOR and so forth, you can run into some issues with the old games not working correctly, and new games had issues all by themselves running on anything at various times.

It has been a LONG time since I even turned on the Alienware with 64 on it. But I have a spreadsheet of game/app names with issues on it. I will get it an PM it to you.

Lets be honest though, everything is getting more complicated and awesome. Have to trade the good with the bad and I don't think you should be worried. I have seen a couple COGers with w7 64 issues but I think the vast majority are VERY happy with it.

[digitalErich]

Now, I've only run a few games on my new system but Win 7 64 has been OK so far. Bioshock 1 was giving me issues with sound and not letting me set the display any higher than 1028, but when I set the exe to run in Vista SP2 compatibility mode, all those issues vanished and it ran fine.

If you are going to play a lot of older games 32 bit is probably for you, like Karak said. I was running 64 bit Vista before this and I never had any trouble with modern games (I don't really have a PC pile of shame) though.

[Karak]

Now, I've only run a few games on my new system but Win 7 64 has been OK so far. Bioshock 1 was giving me issues with sound and not letting me set the display any higher than 1028, but when I set the exe to run in Vista SP2 compatibility mode, all those issues vanished and it ran fine.

If you are going to play a lot of older games 32 bit is probably for you, like Karak said. I was running 64 bit Vista before this and I never had any trouble with modern games (I don't really have a PC pile of shame) though.

Sniff...my entire collection of shame is older:( Sigh.

[evilgoodwin]

Now, I've only run a few games on my new system but Win 7 64 has been OK so far. Bioshock 1 was giving me issues with sound and not letting me set the display any higher than 1028, but when I set the exe to run in Vista SP2 compatibility mode, all those issues vanished and it ran fine.

If you are going to play a lot of older games 32 bit is probably for you, like Karak said. I was running 64 bit Vista before this and I never had any trouble with modern games (I don't really have a PC pile of shame) though.

I'm actually having that issue with Saint's Row 2. I'll try that and see if it works.

[digitalErich]

PC is the ONE platform where I stay on top of what I want to play. Now the 360 and PS3...I still have a literal stack of games still in their shrink wrap.

[digitalErich]

I'm actually having that issue with Saint's Row 2. I'll try that and see if it works.
Quick FYI so you get the whole story, I had to set the compatibility to Vista and enable the Stereo Mix on my Realtek sound driver to fix the sound problem, but I think that was specific to the Realtek drivers.

[aVaKus]

I'm really torn so I'll ask everyone here. I'm going to be getting a new video card soon and just wanted an opinions. Should I get the 570 gtx or splurge and get the 580 gtx?

[Karak]

I'm really torn so I'll ask everyone here. I'm going to be getting a new video card soon and just wanted an opinions. Should I get the 570 gtx or splurge and get the 580 gtx?

From all I read, then went back and reread, its the 570. I had the money for a 580gtx but found that the return for the extra cash didn't equal enough for me to personally take the plunge.

[aVaKus]

From all I read, then went back and reread, its the 570. I had the money for a 580gtx but found that the return for the extra cash didn't equal enough for me to personally take the plunge.

Thanks Karak, that's the way I've been leaning (especially since I can SLI it with my 280 GTX) I just wanted another opinion on it. My knee jerk reactions in the past have usually be "get the fastest" but some recent events (including getting the front of my car ripped off by another speeding car, then having to pay a $500 deductible to the body shop) have made funds a little tight for the time being. I'll go with the 570.

[Karak]

Thanks Karak, that's the way I've been leaning (especially since I can SLI it with my 280 GTX) I just wanted another opinion on it. My knee jerk reactions in the past have usually be "get the fastest" but some recent events (including getting the front of my car ripped off by another speeding car, then having to pay a $500 deductible to the body shop) have made funds a little tight for the time being. I'll go with the 570.

Ya I mean others may have different opinions but cost versus performance the 570 is a great card, the 580 does beat it but for me, not enough for the cost jump and well, they are both beastly cards.

One thing I DID like was the 580gtx memory size but frankly both are future resistant for a good time.

[digitalErich]

I've just put a system together, and I say don't spend the money on a 580. Go for a 570 or one of the newer 560s (MSI Hawk seems like a really nice 560). A lot of the "o/c" editions of the 570s are getting a hair away from 580 speeds and the same with the 560 o/cs and stock 570s. You end up saving a ton of cash.

I went with a 570 o/c myself and the issues I'm working through aside, I really do like the 570 as a product.

[Karak]

I've just put a system together, and I say don't spend the money on a 580. Go for a 570 or one of the newer 560s (MSI Hawk seems like a really nice 560). A lot of the "o/c" editions of the 570s are getting a hair away from 580 speeds and the same with the 560 o/cs and stock 570s. You end up saving a ton of cash.

I went with a 570 o/c myself and the issues I'm working through aside, I really do like the 570 as a product.

Ya I guess that sums it up for me too. I had a bit of an issue with duel monitors until I turned off the power profile. And I just can't say how awesome the card is. It is a beast. Also it stays so much cooler than my 5850 did. Which just makes me feel safer for some reason.

[Lon Lon Rabbit]

I run Windows 7 64 bit on an Alienware m17, plugged into my TV via HDMI.

I like to play my PC games on the TV and that has always worked fine and automatically with the TV just set as a clone of the laptop screen, but recently when booting up some games the TV screen will go black and the game will only boot up on the laptop screen. I go to the control panel and find that it thinks the hdmi device is not plugged in. If I try to fiddle with video options in game it often results in a black screen on the laptop (the sound occasionally still playing) and no way that I can get back to desktop or do anything without a hard reset.

It only did it for some games.

I updated my drivers which I hadn't done for a while, but it didn't fix it at all but in fact the problem now happens with games that didn't do it before.

Any ideas where I can start troubleshooting this?

[TheKeck]

Nope, in fact I don't think we've hit bandwidth saturation on the PCIe 1.0 16x standard yet anyway. Upgrade away.

I was actually not planning on really pulling the trigger on this but my dead 8800 GT has just convinced me otherwise. :(


So... is there any good/easy way to secure a harddrive in a case when you are going to have to detach it from its standard position in order fit in your new behemoth video card? :(

#firstworldproblems

[LiquidRain]

Get an adapter that lets you mount the drive in a DVD bay.

[TheKeck]

Get an adapter that lets you mount the drive in a DVD bay.

I don't have a free one. :(

(Thanks for the idea, though.)

[Shadowstorm]

Well guys, I successfully overclocked my Core i5-2500k to 4.4 Ghz from 3.3 Ghz. I've heard that it is possible to overclock to 4.7-4.8 Ghz without running into stability issues but I'm very pleased with my results with the Intel Burn test (http://gigaflopd.com/downloads/ibt/).

http://i.imgur.com/ZryYC.jpg

I'm also testing for any potentially bad sectors on my new WD 2TB HDD since I've also heard that people have gotten bad drives due to subpar handling during shipping. Seems to be a common complaint from users on Newegg.

[Karak]

I run Windows 7 64 bit on an Alienware m17, plugged into my TV via HDMI.

I like to play my PC games on the TV and that has always worked fine and automatically with the TV just set as a clone of the laptop screen, but recently when booting up some games the TV screen will go black and the game will only boot up on the laptop screen. I go to the control panel and find that it thinks the hdmi device is not plugged in. If I try to fiddle with video options in game it often results in a black screen on the laptop (the sound occasionally still playing) and no way that I can get back to desktop or do anything without a hard reset.

It only did it for some games.

I updated my drivers which I hadn't done for a while, but it didn't fix it at all but in fact the problem now happens with games that didn't do it before.

Any ideas where I can start troubleshooting this?

Originally I was just going to say it was particular games, as games can be a peculiar bunch. However, it sounds like you may be having an issue with the out on your system.

* Try to hook the laptop up to a pc monitor or other viewing device to see if you get errors?

* If you don't have issues on the other viewing device then also check to make sure the TV hasn't reset some function that is causing it not to see the input or if it is trying to force a particular res or other setting on its inputs.

* Check the back of the TV input and verify that it is solid. My new 85 inch tv which cost me a bundle shipped with a bad HDMI in. I almost killed someone over that. And basically it did the same thing. Sometimes worked sometimes didn't.

For me I would say you have one of these issues in order
1 Bad output inside your laptop
2 Bad cable (unlikely but possible going on some of your data)
3 TV setting interference
4 Setting in Windows that changed (not sure what it would be)

If you were a client at our home theatre store, I would ask you if Windows or Drivers have changed. Drivers have changed, as you stated. So I would then ask you to put the old drivers back on. Then I would begin with the laptop to another viewing device and begin checking to isolate the problem Laptop/Cable/TV/Driver/Windows/games themselves.

[Karak]

Well guys, I successfully overclocked my Core i5-2500k to 4.4 Ghz from 3.3 Ghz. I've heard that it is possible to overclock to 4.7-4.8 Ghz without running into stability issues but I'm very pleased with my results with the Intel Burn test (http://gigaflopd.com/downloads/ibt/).

http://i.imgur.com/ZryYC.jpg

I'm also testing for any potentially bad sectors on my new WD 2TB HDD since I've also heard that people have gotten bad drives due to subpar handling during shipping. Seems to be a common complaint from users on Newegg.

Damn I was happy to get 4.2 out of my i7 920 and that was with some good old fashioned hardcore elbow grease. Congrats.
FYI out of my 3 WD 2TB's I returned all three due to something always causing bad sectors, and 1 which was just totally dead. And my packaging, as I have bitched out here in threads, was idiotic. 1 bubble bag on top of the harddrive with nothing supporting it in a massive box other than that. So from 5 other directions no cushion:(

[Shadowstorm]

Yeah. That's what I've read from many other users as well. This WD 2TB HDD was packed in a box within a box supported by paper around the inner box. So I don't think I'll be encountering any problems but testing it anyway, just to be sure. Got about two hours remaining on the test itself.

[digitalErich]

Awesome results Shadowstorm! I'm going to see what I can get out of this new i7 next week sometime.

Speaking of CPUID's HW Monitor, does anyone else get high temps reported for SSDs? I also get slight diff numbers for mainboard and CPU temp vs the sensor monitor ASUS provided, so maybe it's just a software compatibility thing.

It's hard not to trust a CPUID product but I would expect ASUS to know their own boards, too.

[resikel]

That's the one issue that I have with OEM hard drives ordered online. You never know the quality of the packaging. Personally, I buy retail boxed hard drive from retail store. That extra cost is my peace of mind insurance; not 100% guaranteed but better than the former option.

[Shadowstorm]

Awesome results Shadowstorm! I'm going to see what I can get out of this new i7 next week sometime.

Speaking of CPUID's HW Monitor, does anyone else get high temps reported for SSDs? I also get slight diff numbers for mainboard and CPU temp vs the sensor monitor ASUS provided, so maybe it's just a software compatibility thing.

It's hard not to trust a CPUID product but I would expect ASUS to know their own boards, too.

I don't see my SSD even being reported in the program:

http://i.imgur.com/JghOl.png

[PathMaster]

Dell (http://www.engadget.com/2011/07/25/dell-ultrasharp-u2412m-display-features-1080p-resolution-and-ips/)has released a new monitor that, hopefully, follows in line the previous great monitors they offer. And it is only $400!!

[digitalErich]

I don't see my SSD even being reported in the program:
I think HWMonitor just doesn't play well with my motherboard's sensors...a couple of the mainboard temp sensors are inverted...they read way too high at idle and actually dip when I run a CPU stress test.

[bryan]

Got an i5 2500k recently, could you guys recommend a good guide to overclocking it?

[digitalErich]

Outside of scrubbing all the release notes, I wonder if there's a listing of all the sensor chips HWMonitor supports...I could compare this with what my mainboard uses.

[Shadowstorm]

Got an i5 2500k recently, could you guys recommend a good guide to overclocking it?

Select your motherboard from one of the pages provided in this guide (http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/cpus/2011/01/07/how-to-overclock-the-intel-core-i5-2500k/1) and have fun! :)

[Karak]

Yeah. That's what I've read from many other users as well. This WD 2TB HDD was packed in a box within a box supported by paper around the inner box. So I don't think I'll be encountering any problems but testing it anyway, just to be sure. Got about two hours remaining on the test itself.

I am not lying when I say that it actually caused nervous laughter when I opened the first box. 2 days later it was a bit of laughter, and when the last one came it was outrage.

I mean god damn. How hard is it to put some bubble wrap around the incredibly important and sensitive piece of fucking hardware you shitpricks?

[Shadowstorm]

Got an i5 2500k recently, could you guys recommend a good guide to overclocking it?

Oh also, there are several guides on it on Overclock.net. This (really good) guide (http://www.overclock.net/intel-general/910467-ultimate-sandy-bridge-oc-guide-p67a.html) was made for Gigabyte P67 motherboard, which is what I have.

[Shadowstorm]

http://i.imgur.com/Ed4OH.jpg

Looks like it is a success. No bad sectors :).

[digitalErich]

Out of curiosity Shadowstorm, does your mainboard have any of the new "auto-overclocking" functionality? If so, did you start with whatever that spit out a start and work your up?

Edit: Shall we spawn a new thread in here dedicated to o/c? I already have my 570 conservatively o/c to 800/1600 core/shader and 2000 memory. I'll be moving onto the CPU next week...want to make sure one part is rock solid before the next. I'll be pushing towards 900 with my video card later in the week.

[TheKeck]

Get an adapter that lets you mount the drive in a DVD bay.

Turns out there was a spot already set up for this! I had noticed it before by thought it was obviously too small for a hard drive. Your comments made me rethink and realize I was wrong. It was a bit of a bugger but I got everything moved over. This just might work after all! /crosses fingers

Thanks again.

[bryan]

Thanks heaps for the guides Shadowstorm. :)

[digitalErich]

This is what I was able to get out of my 570. This was taken just after running Unigine's Heaven DX11 benchmark for a 2 hour loop.

http://i.imgur.com/Sg1ZO.png

I tried 925 earlier this morning but was seeing the odd artifact here and there in Heaven. I could look for a stable point between there and what I have here but I'm pretty happy with these numbers.

I'll run this card like this for a week and then write these values directly into the VBIOS so I don't need to be running Afterburner at startup.

[biosc1]

Okay, I'm sitting on an 80GB Intel X25-M G2 SSD drive. (http://ncix.com/products/?sku=54276&vpn=SSDSA2MJ080G2C1&manufacture=Intel)

I want more space and I'm thinking of grabbing the OCZ Vertex 3 Max Iops 120GB 2.5IN SATA3 6Gbps Sandforce SF-2281 (http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=60506&vpn=VTX3MI-25SAT3-120G&manufacture=OCZ%20Technology&promoid=1310) as a replacement?

Anyone know anything about these OCZ Vertex 3s? Better 120GB for the price ($250ish)

[LiquidRain]

You can stay away from the "max IOPS" versions et al and just go for the regular flavour Vertex 3. Or really, anything based on Sandforce 2 will do. And even then, anything Sandforce 2 will be overpowered if you don't have SATA 3.

I personally prefer Corsair's products/support but they're not as cheap as OCZ. (for a reason) I don't know if Corsair has a Sandforce 2 product yet, though, haven't looked about. I'm running a 160GB Intel G2 on my laptop, an 80GB G1 on my desktop, and not hurting for space on either.

[biosc1]

Thanks. I should note that the $250 budget is because I'm getting it free through work, but have to stick to that sort of budget.

The Corsair is a more reasonable price at $215 (http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=58354&vpn=CSSD-P3128GB2-BRKT&manufacture=Corsair&promoid=1310)

But the Intel 510 is pretty sexy, at a much higher price...$284 (http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=59291&vpn=SSDSC2MH120A2K5&manufacture=Intel&promoid=1310)

[iHap]

Found this page listing all the SSD's using Sand Force. Lists the company and the series.

http://www.sandforce.com/index.php?id=182

[LiquidRain]

The Marvell controller is better than a Sandforce 2 but not as good as Sandforce 3.

At this point of the performance spectrum though I honestly believe it's splitting hairs - both Marvell and Sandforce 3 are incredibly fast. Check out Anand's words here (http://www.anandtech.com/show/4341/ocz-vertex-3-max-iops-patriot-wildfire-ssds-reviewed/3) for a take on the subject.

[biosc1]

The Marvell controller is better than a Sandforce 2 but not as good as Sandforce 3.

At this point of the performance spectrum though I honestly believe it's splitting hairs - both Marvell and Sandforce 3 are incredibly fast. Check out Anand's words here (http://www.anandtech.com/show/4341/ocz-vertex-3-max-iops-patriot-wildfire-ssds-reviewed/3) for a take on the subject.

On top of that, I don't have the motherboard to support the speeds, so it's not a biggie for me which controller is used. I will be upgrading this winter hopefully. I honestly wouldn't be grabbing this if it wasn't something I could expense through work.

[Shadowstorm]

aid41kxxNdI


:O

[Karak]

aid41kxxNdI


:O

:) Get one. They are magnificent.

[Shadowstorm]

I just did :D.

I was worried about it not fitting with my RAM but it turns out, it'll be just fine (I have the same set as this guy does):

mkA6rf_6CE8

[digitalErich]

That Noctua cooler is the one I went with, along with a couple Noctua fans for my case. I'd have already replaced my blow-hole fan if they made fans that size. They make great products from my short experience so far. I'm definitely a fan of their stuff, now.

I get 1-2 degrees warmer than those numbers in the video, but I'm also running a pretty small case.

Edit: My Corsair ram actually did have spacing issues with the sink, but with a pair scissors and needle node pliers I carefully removed two layers of fins on one side (hard to even see).

[Karak]

That Noctua cooler is the one I went with, along with a couple Noctua fans for my case. I'd have already replaced my blow-hole fan if they made fans that size. They make great products from my short experience so far. I'm definitely a fan of their stuff, now.

I get 1-2 degrees warmer than those numbers in the video, but I'm also running a pretty small case.

Edit: My Corsair ram actually did have spacing issues with the sink, but with a pair scissors and needle node pliers I carefully removed two layers of fins on one side (hard to even see).

I got very lucky with my setup and didn't have the spacing issues. I am such a fan of it though. Man, silent almost, and its cooling can't be believed...well unless you have one or see the video;)

[digitalErich]

At first I felt a little bit guilty (or a bit of a sucker) for spending that much on an air cooler and $15 each on two of their 120mm fans, but now that my system is together I'm convinced it was money very well spent.

I'm getting really cool temperatures with a micro ATX and smaller-than-mid tower and the loudest part of my rig are the fans on my videocard running at 50% speed.

I really hope these guys start to make fans bigger than 140mm in the future. I really want a huge, ugly, beige and blood red fan pushing air out of the top of my case.

[LiquidRain]

I want GPU coolers made by them.

In fact I want cooler GPUs all around - the loudest thing in my case is, by far, the GPU. (followed up by the squealing coming from my Corsair PSU, which really pisses me off)

[Karak]

I want GPU coolers made by them.

In fact I want cooler GPUs all around - the loudest thing in my case is, by far, the GPU. (followed up by the squealing coming from my Corsair PSU, which really pisses me off)

Agreed.

Luckily my 570gtx is silent as death and has even at times made me worry the fan wasn't working. But i know if those guys jumped into the GPU game, they would ballpark it!

My 4890 sounded like a damn pickup truck backing in and slipping gears oh my lord it was horrid. However, I forgave it due to its awesomeness

[RandoM51]

I'm actually having that issue with Saint's Row 2. I'll try that and see if it works.

Saint's Row 2 doesn't run very will on any Windows OS. (The OS isn't the problem).

[Shadowstorm]

At first I felt a little bit guilty (or a bit of a sucker) for spending that much on an air cooler and $15 each on two of their 120mm fans, but now that my system is together I'm convinced it was money very well spent.

I'm getting really cool temperatures with a micro ATX and smaller-than-mid tower and the loudest part of my rig are the fans on my videocard running at 50% speed.

I really hope these guys start to make fans bigger than 140mm in the future. I really want a huge, ugly, beige and blood red fan pushing air out of the top of my case.

Do you have any photos of your system available by chance? I'd like to see it with the cooler installed.

Can't wait for it to arrive in the mail!

[Xerxes]

I bought my 212+ before I even knew about the Noctua. If I could turn back time. Also, why fuck is NewEgg selling my RAM (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?SID=u181720t3167478f9fp0dd0c0s701&AID=10440897&PID=1225267&Item=N82E16820231445&nm_mc=AFC-C8Junction&cm_mmc=AFC-C8Junction-_-cables-_-na-_-na)so cheap. I keep trying to remind myself. I don't NEED 16GB. I just don't need it. >_<

I really should overclock. It's just I haven't really felt a need too. But then it's like why did I go for the K.

[digitalErich]

Do you have any photos of your system available by chance? I'd like to see it with the cooler installed.

Can't wait for it to arrive in the mail!
This is the initial boxing up with the faulty MSI video card. I would have liked to have replaced it but Amazon was out of stock in the return window, so I went with a GB card. It's still a fine card, but that Frozr III cooler is a beast.
http://a.yfrog.com/img616/2633/haufl.jpg

I still have an extra 120mm Noctua, but I haven't decided if I'm going to put it in-line with that front one for more intake or rearrange the fans on the CPU cooler and put it as an exhaust behind the cooler on the back of the case.

[digitalErich]

Karak your PM Inbox is full.

[Karak]

Karak your PM Inbox is full.

Fixed sir. Thanks for the heads up!

Awesome pic by the way.

[TheKeck]

Installed my new PSU last night. It was considerably larger than my old one. It was a bugger, but I got everything plugged in.

New video card SHOULD be in my mail box at the moment. Please let it fit in my case/motherboard!

[LiquidRain]

I have to RMA my Corsair PSU due to some nasty electronic squealing coming from it. :/ I'll be without my PC for the next while, which sucks because I've ALREADY been without it for a while now!

[Karak]

I have to RMA my Corsair PSU due to some nasty electronic squealing coming from it. :/ I'll be without my PC for the next while, which sucks because I've ALREADY been without it for a while now!

Squealing like angry dolphins or like angry cats? Because if its like the latter, you may want to check if the cat is actually in there:)

The only time I had to RMA a PSU was years back when I plugged the system in and SMOKE, black and evil rose from it instantly:(

[Shadowstorm]

So, I ordered an orange Xigamatek case fan (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835233015) with white LEDs intending to use it as a rear case fan until I realized that my default rear case fan is actually 140mm instead of 120mm in my HAF 932 case. The choice of the fan itself was pretty stupid in retrospect. Orange fan? :( In a case full of blue, red, and green? :( :( :(

http://i.imgur.com/YENZp.jpg


So I decided to get this highly acclaimed 140mm fan (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835146002) to replace the stock rear fan which pushes out a lot more air than I had initially anticipated (certainly a lot more than the default fan that the case came with). It's not a Noctua fan by any means, but it is also not $30+ for a case fan.

But anyway, it looks like a damn Christmas tree now. But once I get the D14, there will be no more green at least, and I will also take that opportunity to work on my cable management. I'd like to route the power cables behind the case.

[TheKeck]

So.... my video card didn't fit. :( At least, it didn't fit without unplugging two SATA cables. So I am now running with no dvd drives. I guess I'll be building a whole new system. Worked up some specs with a coworker already that I'll post later.

Another question for the panel, though. I have replaced my dead GForce 8800 GT with a Radeon 6870. By all rights, I believe the latter card should be significantly more powerful. Yet.... I'm not seeing better performance in Batman Arkham Asylum or BF: Bad Company 2. In fact, I'm getting stuttering and freezeups that I never saw with the 8800. So, um..... any thoughts on why that might be? :( :(

[Spectre-7]

I suspect that it's the two titles that are the problem.

Bad Company 2 is fairly CPU limited on most platforms from what I recall, so there's a good chance changing video card just wouldn't have much effect on it. Wouldn't expect that to be the case for Arkham Asylum, though... I think that's just a case of it being better optimized for Nvidia. I know they were using it as a platform to pimp PhysX, and I think they did some dick stuff like only allowing AA on Nvidia boards.

[digitalErich]

Don't use BC2...that game really hits the CPU, like Spectre said. I have no idea about AA on the PC but it was heavily promoting/promoted by Nvidia.

I'm sure you have drivers sorted out, so I would say check your PSU. This recent generation of cards take a LOT of power. My 570 single card takes two 6-pin power connectors.

Do you still have your specs for your PSU? Check if the 12v is single rail and how many amps are on the 12v rail.

I can only speak to current Nvidia cards, but everything I've seen suggests a PSU with a single 12v rail and a minimum of 35amps for one card. I played it safe and got a PSU with a single 12v rail at 60amps.

If a PSU is SLI/Crossfire certified that means you probably have plenty of power, if you can't find the specific numbers, though this isn't bullet proof since like single cards, SLI/XFire power standards have changed over time.

[digitalErich]

If your PSU is fine, you might want to make sure you really cleaned up your drivers since you went from Nvidia to Radeon. I would uninstall all video drivers and run one of those driver cleaner/sweepers while you computer is in safe mode to make sure you nuked everything, then install the latest certified drivers for your card.

[digitalErich]

For a benchmark for current cards, I like Unigine's Heaven DX11 Benchmark (http://unigine.com/products/heaven/). It uses all of the DX11 bells and whisteles and will only hit your GPU. Furmark and stuff like that are fine for stress testing and looking at load temperatures, but I find that Heaven is a better benchmark for games performance.

A cool thing with Heaven is that when not in benchmark mode, you can fly around the demo world and pop Tesselation on and off in real-time...that technology is bananas to see in action.

I've recently discovered that 3D Mark has become adware loaded bullshit, don't even install that thing on your system.

[TheKeck]

I suspect that it's the two titles that are the problem.

Bad Company 2 is fairly CPU limited on most platforms from what I recall, so there's a good chance changing video card just wouldn't have much effect on it. Wouldn't expect that to be the case for Arkham Asylum, though... I think that's just a case of it being better optimized for Nvidia. I know they were using it as a platform to pimp PhysX, and I think they did some dick stuff like only allowing AA on Nvidia boards.
I wondered about the CPU bound thing, for sure. I just wondered why it seemed to be WORSE with my new card (as opposed to no change.) And Arkham Asylum is missing three AA options that I had with the NVidia card. That was part of why I was worried, but I guess it makes sense if it's just an nvidia/ati thing.
Don't use BC2...that game really hits the CPU, like Spectre said. I have no idea about AA on the PC but it was heavily promoting/promoted by Nvidia.

I'm sure you have drivers sorted out, so I would say check your PSU. This recent generation of cards take a LOT of power. My 570 single card takes two 6-pin power connectors.

Do you still have your specs for your PSU? Check if the 12v is single rail and how many amps are on the 12v rail.

I can only speak to current Nvidia cards, but everything I've seen suggests a PSU with a single 12v rail and a minimum of 35amps for one card. I played it safe and got a PSU with a single 12v rail at 60amps.

If a PSU is SLI/Crossfire certified that means you probably have plenty of power, if you can't find the specific numbers, though this isn't bullet proof since like single cards, SLI/XFire power standards have changed over time.
I bought a PSU specifically for this new card so I think I'm great there. It is SLI/Crossfire certified and I do have two 6-pin plugs going into the card.
If your PSU is fine, you might want to make sure you really cleaned up your drivers since you went from Nvidia to Radeon. I would uninstall all video drivers and run one of those driver cleaner/sweepers while you computer is in safe mode to make sure you nuked everything, then install the latest certified drivers for your card.
I did be sure to uninstall all my old drivers before putting the new ones on. I didn't use any kind of sweeper tool, though.
For a benchmark for current cards, I like Unigine's Heaven DX11 Benchmark (http://unigine.com/products/heaven/). It uses all of the DX11 bells and whisteles and will only hit your GPU. Furmark and stuff like that are fine for stress testing and looking at load temperatures, but I find that Heaven is a better benchmark for games performance.

A cool thing with Heaven is that when not in benchmark mode, you can fly around the demo world and pop Tesselation on and off in real-time...that technology is bananas to see in action.

I've recently discovered that 3D Mark has become adware loaded bullshit, don't even install that thing on your system.
I will definitely try this. Thanks for all the input, guys.

[Karak]

Keck

As the estimed column has stated. CPU most likely.

Drivers sweepers work and don't work at a whim. Some are ok, some suck, some mess everything up. I don't mess with them. But if its not CPU, then man, check to make sure you don't have something weird with memory going on, run benchmarks on the card. If other games show a vast improvement, its software I guess.

[Karak]

So, I ordered an orange Xigamatek case fan (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835233015) with white LEDs intending to use it as a rear case fan until I realized that my default rear case fan is actually 140mm instead of 120mm in my HAF 932 case. The choice of the fan itself was pretty stupid in retrospect. Orange fan? :( In a case full of blue, red, and green? :( :( :(

http://i.imgur.com/YENZp.jpg


So I decided to get this highly acclaimed 140mm fan (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835146002) to replace the stock rear fan which pushes out a lot more air than I had initially anticipated (certainly a lot more than the default fan that the case came with). It's not a Noctua fan by any means, but it is also not $30+ for a case fan.

But anyway, it looks like a damn Christmas tree now. But once I get the D14, there will be no more green at least, and I will also take that opportunity to work on my cable management. I'd like to route the power cables behind the case.

Sir.
That looks awesome and terrible at the same time. I know the exact feeling. I have mistakenly had over 5 different colors in a case before:)

[digitalErich]

Yeah, you might just have selected the two worst games to check performance given your situation :) BC2 shouldn't be worse, but I'm not 100% clear on what you're seeing in that game.

I would look into doing a driver nuke and reinstall as I've heard issues when moving from one type of card to the other with driver pieces lurking around even after an OS uninstall.

I think Karak recently had an issue like this.

[digitalErich]

One thing I would suggest Keck, is that if you are going to build a new system, build it fairly soon so that you can test this card out in that new rig while in the card's return window.

On the off chance (2% most ppl say) you do have faulty hardware you don't want to have to deal with restock fees or other BS, you just want to be able to exchange it for a new one.

The chances are low, but I just recently got a faulty video card so it does happen and I almost got burned trying to trouble-shoot it right up until the last day I could return it.

[Spectre-7]

Sorry about that, Keck... read the first few lines of your post and got tunnel vision. Not sure why they'd be performing worse, but I'd probably start by reinitializing both games (optimize settings, or wipe their settings files).

[TheKeck]

Qty. Product Description Savings Total Price
1

NZXT GAMMA Classic Series GAMA-001BK Black Steel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case

NZXT GAMMA Classic Series GAMA-001BK Black Computer Case
Item #:N82E16811146061
Return Policy: Standard Return Policy
$49.99
$35.99
1

Intel Core i5-2500 Sandy Bridge 3.3GHz (3.7GHz Turbo Boost) LGA 1155 95W Quad-Core Desktop Processor BX80623I52500

Intel Core i5-2500 3.3GHz LGA 1155 95W Quad-Core Desktop Processor
Item #:N82E16819115073
Return Policy: CPU Replacement Only Return Policy
$209.99
1

LITE-ON DVD Burner - Bulk Black SATA Model iHAS124-04

LITE-ON DVD Burner - Bulk Black SATA Model iHAS124-04
Item #:N82E16827106289
Return Policy: Standard Return Policy
$19.99
1

Patriot Gamer 2 Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Desktop Memory Model PGD38G1600ELK

Patriot Gamer 2 Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Desktop Memory
Item #:N82E16820220558
Return Policy: Memory Standard Return Policy
$74.99
$59.99
1

SAMSUNG Spinpoint F3 HD103SJ 1TB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive -Bare Drive

SAMSUNG Spinpoint F3 1TB 3.5" SATA 3.0Gb/s Internal Hard Drive -Bare Drive
Item #:N82E16822152185
Return Policy: Standard Return Policy
$64.99
$59.99
1

ASUS Maximus IV Gene-Z LGA 1155 Intel Z68 HDMI SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 Micro ATX Intel Motherboard

ASUS Maximus IV Gene-Z Micro ATX Intel Motherboard
Item #:N82E16813131759
Return Policy: Standard Return Policy
$179.99
Grand Total: $565.94



Any red flags here?

[digitalErich]

Are you planning on just using the stock intel cooler? I vote you spend even just $30 for a Hyper 212+ CPU Cooler, if not something more beefy but the 212+ is still great for the price.

Zalman makes a lot of good CPU coolers at that price range, too.

[TheKeck]

I was planning on the stock cooler. Have you had trouble with CPUs overheating? (I don't plan on doing any overclocking or anything.)

[LiquidRain]

A non-stock cooler will simply give you a cooler, quieter experience.

If you don't plan on overclocking at all, get an i5-2500 (no k!) and a H67 motherboard that's much more affordable. ($100-$130) Then drop your RAM to some decent value DDR3-1333 (instead of "gamer" DDR3-1600). You'll save close to $100 with those items being pared down and you won't lose any speed or functionality.

[TheKeck]

This is an i5-2500 (no k) PLUS there is a $15 coupon code for it. The i5-2500k is $220. This will be $195.

[TheKeck]

I guess changing motherboards would involve getting some slower RAM too. Am I reading that right?

[LiquidRain]

No, but no i5 or i7 does DDR3-1600 anyway. They only do 1333. :) So go cheaper. And ESPECIALLY go cheaper on the mobo.

[TheKeck]

No, but no i5 or i7 does DDR3-1600 anyway. They only do 1333. :) So go cheaper. And ESPECIALLY go cheaper on the mobo.

Oh really? Very good info. What DOES do 1600? Thanks!

[digitalErich]

Even if you're not going to overclock, I would still go with a cheap, non-stock cooler for the reasons liquid mentioned, cooler temps and it will run much, much quieter.

[LiquidRain]

Mostly the quiet part.

And Keck, the 1600 is there for overclockers. With some tweaks you can push the Intel CPU a bit higher, or (more easily) use lower latency to compensate. Higher-rated RAM means more overclocking ability in general. At stock settings, the Intel CPU will only do 1333.

[TheKeck]

For a benchmark for current cards, I like Unigine's Heaven DX11 Benchmark (http://unigine.com/products/heaven/). It uses all of the DX11 bells and whisteles and will only hit your GPU.

I just tried this out. Seemed to work pretty well, although, in this case I have reference point to compare to. DX11 mode with everything full blast kept down around 15 fps, but it could keep a pretty good rate in DX10 mode. I didn't notice any of the jarring stuttering I was seeing in game.

Also, I ordered my parts. Thanks for the advice again, everyone.

[digitalErich]

It is a benchmark so it's going to stress your card, but I think that's good news you weren't getting any freezing or stuttering. It probably means it was those specific games.

[TheKeck]

It is a benchmark so it's going to stress your card,
Yeah, makes perfect sense to me. It's just like I say, I have no reference because I never ran it with my old card to be able to say, "Well, 15 fps is better than the 7 fps my 8800 was giving me." :)

Question, though, I thought I read recently that DX11 was Win7 only. I'm running Vista on this machine. What's the story there?

[LiquidRain]

It runs on Vista. It doesn't run on XP.

[TheKeck]

Gotcha. I heard it was DX10 for Vista and DX11 for Win7. I guess I was misinformed. :)

[Shadowstorm]

Well, I got the Noctua D14 earlier and I have to say that it was an absolute pleasure installing. I expected to at least have a bit more problems than what I had (0). It was painlessly easy to put in place and work everything out. Apologies for the shitty cell phone photos.

In addition, I also took some time to work on cable management. Compared to what I had before, I think it looks pretty presentable now.

http://i.imgur.com/NTWOI.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/qwnSW.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/i6pha.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/56ewl.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/26IkF.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/CpzMR.jpg

It is currently running at 24C right now. Wow.

[Lance Uppercut]

I'm looking to upgrade from a 5770 to something... better (the 5770 then gets passed down to my brother). I'm looking to play Battlefield and all those shiny new PC releases this fall, but I also want to future-proof a little bit. Unless someone can give me a good reason to switch to Nvidia, I'm looking at either a 6950 or 6970. But which one? Is the 6970 worth the extra $100?

[Xerxes]

My RAM was on sale and now it's sold out and deactivated. O_o

[Shadowstorm]

I'm looking to upgrade from a 5770 to something... better (the 5770 then gets passed down to my brother). I'm looking to play Battlefield and all those shiny new PC releases this fall, but I also want to future-proof a little bit. Unless someone can give me a good reason to switch to Nvidia, I'm looking at either a 6950 or 6970. But which one? Is the 6970 worth the extra $100?

You can flash the 6950 to a 6970. Google knows all about it.

[aVaKus]

Just ordered an EVGA Geforce GTX 570 HD! It should be here Wednesday. :)

[Lance Uppercut]

You can flash the 6950 to a 6970. Google knows all about it.

I've had bad luck with this sort of stuff before. How likely will I be able to find an actual 6970 instead of one with a couple of faulty bits that they locked away?

[iHap]

Just ordered an EVGA Geforce GTX 570 HD! It should be here Wednesday. :)

That's exactly what I have. Couldn't be more happy with it. Get's hot when running DX11 games but manually upping the fan speed fixes that.

[aVaKus]

That's exactly what I have. Couldn't be more happy with it. Get's hot when running DX11 games but manually upping the fan speed fixes that.

Thanks for the heads up on that. I'll watch to see how hot it gets but hopefully my 4 case fans will keep it from being an issue

I just hope it'll handle Rage well.

[TheKeck]

Well my machine is all put together and seems to be running nicely. I had trouble getting the heatsync to attach to the mobo. What's up with that?

Anyway, I had time to load up Arkham Asylum and run a benchmark. My minimum FPS went from the 15 on the old machine to 55 on the new. Nice.

I was getting fits from IE, though. That's obnoxious. Maybe I'll actually switch fully over to FF. We'll see.

[digitalErich]

Were you using the right bracket? Aftermarket coolers can be built for a few different form factors and can come with multiple mounting options.

[TheKeck]

Were you using the right bracket? Aftermarket coolers can be built for a few different form factors and can come with multiple mounting options.

Oh nuts, I think I just inadvertently admitted that I ignored everyone's advice and didn't get an after market cooler. I was going to just keep that on the downlow. :o

But yeah, it was right, and I got it on there, it just took me a lot longer than it should have. Corners kept being loose after I thought I had them secured. In the end everything was secure.

[LiquidRain]

The push pins really need to be pushed down, yeah. And there's nothing wrong with saving a little scratch by keeping the stock cooler if the noise of the stock doesn't bother you.

[Shadowstorm]

I've had bad luck with this sort of stuff before. How likely will I be able to find an actual 6970 instead of one with a couple of faulty bits that they locked away?

You can find some valuable information on it here (http://www.overclock.net/amd-ati/899639-6950-6970-unlock-thread.html).

[LiquidRain]

It's not always a success, that modding. What I managed to do with my 2GB 6950 was bump the shaders up to the 6970's count, but I couldn't mod the BIOS to also give me the clock speed or the 6970's power profile. I have to run stock clocks as well as bump the power profile 20% using AMD's overclocking tools. And thanks to the extra power consumption of the extra shaders unlocked, I can't overclock even with that extra 20% overhead. I run into the BIOS' max TDP pretty quickly.

(that said, the extra shaders unlocked is a net benefit against straight up overclocking)

[Lance Uppercut]

So uh, does this mean I should grab a 6950?

[LiquidRain]

It's a superb card regardless. I just can't make any guarantees about it's hackability - you have to poke around forums for that.

edit: poke around for specific models

[Entropy]

I bought a 6950 and then ended up returning it for the 6970..in the end it was just easier to spend a few more dollars for the higher end model...it screams though...the 6970 is a beast. No regrets so far.

[Shadowstorm]

http://i.imgur.com/axULJ.jpg

Oh gawd.