AlJazeera report on Palin/McCain rally in Ohio

[Bingley Joe]

AlJazeera reporter Casey Kauffman talked to some Republican supporters in Ohio after a rally by Sarah Palin..

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I'm.. stunned.

[Ancalagon]

My favourite quote:
I dont like the fact that.... he thinks us white people are trash

Wow....

This is what damage those damned misleading ads can do - you now have a population who would kill him given a chance. Seriously, as far as I see it, Obama is about as American as you get. double you tee eff.

[Schnoogs]

I wonder if AlJAzeera has or will do a follow up where they interview leftwing extremists.

There's a lot of stupidity in this country and it seems to accumulate at the ends of the political spectrum.

[Iron Past]

I wonder if AlJAzeera has or will do a follow up where they interview leftwing extremists.

There's a lot of stupidity in this country and it seems to accumulate at the ends of the political spectrum.

No joke. Like McCain's supporters booing him when he said Obama would do fine as President. Seriously, what the hell guys?

[darkbase]

I'm.. stunned.

I'm not.

I live almost in the exact center of Florida and my entire county is like this. I'm sure Pailin may have some intelligent, independent thinking supporters, but I haven't met one.

Funny thing is, my county is the meth capital of Florida, and I believe Wasilla takes the cake in Alaska (http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2008/09/wasilla-the-met.html).

[National Kato]

What if Obama were a Muslim or Arab? (http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/10/13/campbell.brown.obama/index.html)

[Young Al Capone]

At first I was stunned and pissed, by the end I was just dissapointed and depressed.

[shunoshi]

No joke. Like McCain's supporters booing him when he said Obama would do fine as President. Seriously, what the hell guys?

Welcome to American politics. We treat elections like sporting events. Us vs. Them....even though we're all supposed to be on the same team.

[LordDon]

I don't think you could meet a more credulous group of people. Not a critical thinker in the lot of them.

[Iron Past]

Welcome to American politics. We treat elections like sporting events. Us vs. Them....even though we're all supposed to be on the same team.

Regardless of who wins, if I hear someone say again that "he's not my President," I'll punch them.

[darkbase]

What if Obama were a Muslim or Arab? (http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/10/13/campbell.brown.obama/index.html)

I remember thinking that over a year ago, really glad someone else has said it (in media).

[Dukefrukem]

you guys should watch this.. .it's a whole bag of LULz

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[Ancalagon]

you guys should watch this.. .it's a whole bag of LULz


They should check that those people have the requisite number of braincells to continue breathing.

[Johan]

I wonder if AlJAzeera has or will do a follow up where they interview leftwing extremists.

I very much doubt they will. (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122394051071230749.html?mod=djemEditorialPage)

the organization's real genius is getting American taxpayers to foot the bill. According to a 2006 report from the Employment Policies Institute (EPI), Acorn has been on the federal take since 1977. For instance, Acorn's American Institute for Social Justice claimed $240,000 in tax money between fiscal years 2002 and 2003. Its American Environmental Justice Project received 100% of its revenue from government grants in the same years. EPI estimates the Acorn Housing Corporation alone received some $16 million in federal dollars from 1997-2007. Only recently, Democrats tried and failed to stuff an "affordable housing" provision into the $700 billion bank rescue package that would have let politicians give even more to Acorn.

Which brings us to Mr. Obama, who got his start as a Chicago "community organizer" at Acorn's side. In 1992 he led voter registration efforts as the director of Project Vote, which included Acorn. This past November, he lauded Acorn's leaders for being "smack dab in the middle" of that effort. Mr. Obama also served as a lawyer for Acorn in 1995, in a case against Illinois to increase access to the polls.

During his tenure on the board of Chicago's Woods Fund, that body funneled more than $200,000 to Acorn. More recently, the Obama campaign paid $832,000 to an Acorn affiliate. The campaign initially told the Federal Election Commission this money was for "staging, sound, lighting." It later admitted the cash was to get out the vote.

I'm just glad that, whoever wins, this election will bring about the kind of change we need in America. :rolleyes:

[Young Al Capone]

They should check that those people have the requisite number of braincells to continue breathing.

Seriously, that lady that is in the freeze frame of the first video, she is...

Damn I cannot even think of a word to express myself, I guess 'too much' will have to suffice.

[QueQueg]

Welcome to the Idiocracy. I'm not sure how anyone can be so completely deluded.

The GOP has managed to convince these working-class stiffs that they represent them, when in fact they do not, and couldn't care less for the moral values that they supposedly cling to.

Check this (http://money.cnn.com/2008/06/11/news/economy/candidates_taxproposals_tpc/index.htm) out. McCain's tax plan would give folks making more than three MILLION a year a $269,000 tax cut. Meanwhile, families making the national average yearly salary ($45,000) would only get $319 dollars back.

WTF! If all these poor folks could just get past their fear, bigotry, and religious intolerance, they'd see that the Dems are more interested in their well-being than the GOP.

[National Kato]

Johan, we can all agree the shit ACORN's been doing is the worst kind of voter fraud. But McCain was a keynote speaker at an ACORN-sponsored immigration rally in Miami. ACORN seems to be entrenched in Washington circles.

[fitbabits]

Johan, we can all agree the shit ACORN's been doing is the worst kind of voter fraud. But McCain was a keynote speaker at an ACORN-sponsored immigration rally in Miami. ACORN seems to be entrenched in Washington circles.

Agreed. ACORN is to Washington as Washington is to ACORN.

[Johan]

Johan, we can all agree the shit ACORN's been doing is the worst kind of voter fraud. But McCain was a keynote speaker at an ACORN-sponsored immigration rally in Miami. ACORN seems to be entrenched in Washington circles.

Agreed. ACORN is to Washington as Washington is to ACORN.

And electing either one of our major-party candidates does WHAT to change ANYTHING exactly? :confused:

Obama and McCain are neck deep in the very problems we face. Obama is a major benefactor of money from Fannie/Freddie, and chose the consummate insider to be his vice presidential pick. McCain has been in Washington so long, I'm not sure he even knows what his 13-odd-houses look like, or where they are. He's also pirouetting on his positions like a ballerina in heat.

Both of them make me literally sick to my stomach. Literally. It makes me nauseous to think that I have to choose between fiddle-dee or fiddle-dum.

[Shrinn]

"Refuse his questions unless he offers them in writing to you" I rofl'd.

I'd love to see one from the other side of the spectrum.

God, that lady was so fucking annoying though. He was just trying to get the camera out of her face so he could stop cutting her crazy ear bleeding voice out.

[Bingley Joe]

OOoh! Speaking of both ACORN and dumbasses regurgitating talkingpoints fed to them by the McCain campaign (and on the issue of tax-cuts in particular), this video pertains to both issues:

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It also happens to be very funny (particularly Dana Gould's comments right at the end) :)

[Food Nipple]

I very much doubt they will. (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122394051071230749.html?mod=djemEditorialPage)

I'm just glad that, whoever wins, this election will bring about the kind of change we need in America. :rolleyes:

Yup, that's the first thing that I thought of after watching the video, voter fraud.

not really

What the hell, now this whole thread is acron, nice hijack.

[Johan]

Yup, that's the first thing that I thought of after watching the video, voter fraud.

True enough. Voter fraud involving ACORN is real, spans several states, and is an actual issue with seriousness to it.

But the hell with actually confirming identities or expecting some kind of ID! That would be...racist or some other -ist! :rolleyes:

[Food Nipple]

True enough. Voter fraud involving ACORN is real, spans several states, and is an actual issue with seriousness to it.

So is racism.

[fitbabits]

And electing either one of our major-party candidates does WHAT to change ANYTHING exactly? :confused:

Obama and McCain are neck deep in the very problems we face. Obama is a major benefactor of money from Fannie/Freddie, and chose the consummate insider to be his vice presidential pick. McCain has been in Washington so long, I'm not sure he even knows what his 13-odd-houses look like, or where they are. He's also pirouetting on his positions like a ballerina in heat.

Both of them make me literally sick to my stomach. Literally. It makes me nauseous to think that I have to choose between fiddle-dee or fiddle-dum.
You know, Obama and McCain are not your only choices. Sure, one of them will be elected, but there are other options out there - you don't have to vote for either, let alone vote at all.

[Spectre-7]

[Geddy Lee]When you choose not to decide you still have made a choice.[/Geddy Lee]

[National Kato]

And electing either one of our major-party candidates does WHAT to change ANYTHING exactly? :confused:

Oh, not much. But let's not assume you can make it in Washington without having to become that which you fight against, eh?

On-topic: As for the Al-Jazeera vid, I don't know why anyone would expect them to do a piece on lefties, because how many lefties do you know make disparaging statements about Muslims? There's a reason they went to that rally.

[Johan]

So is racism.

In the case of racism, at least it's a real person (notwithstanding an ignorant one) who is legally allowed to vote as they see fit...an actual person, legally allowed to vote. That's not an excuse for their idiocy/prejudice/backwardness, but there's nothing stopping any of us from voting any way we see fit based upon any criteria we choose. It would be nice if there were no racists, but there are; that's reality.

Also, if Obama loses (I doubt he will, but let's play hypotheticals), it will be Democratic racists who cost him the election. Republican racists wouldn't vote for a Democrat under any circumstances anyways. Again, that's not an excuse...it's reality. Democrats; if Obama loses, look to your own house. Your own racists, feminists who were bitter over Hillary, and your ineffectual attempts to generate illegal votes through ACORN (they should have been sneakier), will have cost you the election.

Voter fraud is far and away worse, I would argue. It actually destroys the very concept of 'one-person-one-vote.' It's also illegal. Racism in whom you vote for (deciding based upon race) is, unfortunately, not illegal. Your motives in voting are your own.

[Food Nipple]

In the case of racism, at least it's a real person (notwithstanding an ignorant one) who is legally allowed to vote as they see fit...an actual person, legally allowed to vote. That's not an excuse for their idiocy/prejudice/backwardness, but there's nothing stopping any of us from voting any way we see fit based upon any criteria we choose. It would be nice if there were no racists, but there are; that's reality.

Also, if Obama loses (I doubt he will, but let's play hypotheticals), it will be Democratic racists who cost him the election. Republican racists wouldn't vote for a Democrat under any circumstances anyways. Again, that's not an excuse...it's reality. Democrats; if Obama loses, look to your own house. Your own racists, feminists who were bitter over Hillary, and your ineffectual attempts to generate illegal votes through ACORN (they should have been sneakier), will have cost you the election.

Voter fraud is far and away worse, I would argue. It actually destroys the very concept of 'one-person-one-vote.' It's also illegal. Racism in whom you vote for (deciding based upon race) is, unfortunately, not illegal. Your motives in voting are your own.

I don't think you'd be able to find someone committing voter fraud who would proudly announce it to a news crew filming them. At least those people have the common sense to keep their shameful behavior hidden.

The most repugnant thing about about the original video is that these people are unashamed, and more than happy to share their ignorant points of view.

[QueQueg]

how many lefties do you know make disparaging statements about Muslims? There's a reason they went to that rally.

Exactly. The democratic "base" is not composed of intolerant, bigoted religious zealots.

[Young Al Capone]

Uh oh, I think this thread just took a wrong turn.

[Johan]

The most repugnant thing about about the original video is that these people are unashamed, and more than happy to share their ignorant points of view.

Well, in fairness...they wouldn't be truly ignorant if they knew any better! :)

Exactly. The democratic "base" is not composed of intolerant, bigoted religious zealots.

Bwahahaha! THAT is hilarious. :D

[Schnoogs]

Exactly. The democratic "base" is not composed of intolerant, bigoted religious zealots.

Neither is the Republican base.

Let's not confuse the base for the extremists or vice versa.

[LordDon]

It also happens to be very funny (particularly Dana Gould's comments right at the end) :)

That was just awesome Bingley, awesome. Especially the "evangelical dominatrix that will spank you with her bible" comment.

[QueQueg]

The Republican base is primarily composed of evangelical southern conservatives. These are the folks that won the last 2 elections. They are also the folks depicted in the OP's video.

[Young Al Capone]

Yep, we definitely took a wrong turn here...

[QueQueg]

Yep, we definitely took a wrong turn here...

I'm just talking about the original post and associated video. If anything, we've brought it back on track.

[National Kato]

Yep, we definitely took a wrong turn here...

And you're the one on a uniracer! :p

[DiBiddilyBop]

I like how everyone keeps talking about how ACORN committed voter fraud when no, that's not at all what has happened. It looks like what they were doing was a precursor to voter fraud, but it never got there and it annoys me that I don't think many people know that.

[Johan]

I like how everyone keeps talking about how ACORN committed voter fraud when no, that's not at all what has happened.

They've been in this "business" for decades. I'm sure they just stumbled upon illegally registering people, across multiple states, this election cycle. :rolleyes:

Also, their intent in this election cycle was voter fraud. That is far more serious than the other foolishness in this thread, because everyone who is legally entitled to vote can do so based upon whatever motivations they so choose...that's one of the perils of democracy. However, voter fraud is NOT an accepted peril of democracy; individual motivations for your vote would be, however. It's up to you, and me, and others...

The Republican base is primarily composed of evangelical southern conservatives. These are the folks that won the last 2 elections. They are also the folks depicted in the OP's video.

I think your blindness to religious bigotry and racism from the left isn't Wright at all...but blindness is what happens when one puts on the partisan goggles.

Edit: I'm especially intrigued by the attitude that would tar McCain with guilt by association, yet would deny the veracity/merit of the same approach regarding a man who sat under a racist preacher's teachings for decades. That's just not Wright.

That's some interesting pretzel-logic. Steely Dan would be proud.

[Bingley Joe]

That was just awesome Bingley, awesome. Especially the "evangelical dominatrix that will spank you with her bible" comment.

LMAO! I'm glad I'm not the only one who likes to laugh at this stuff :)


"She's the ultimate irony: a pin-up girl for people who don't believe in masturbating"

[DiBiddilyBop]

They've been in this "business" for decades. I'm sure they just stumbled upon illegally registering people, across multiple states, this election cycle. :rolleyes:

Also, their intent in this election cycle was voter fraud. That is far more serious than the other foolishness in this thread, because everyone who is legally entitled to vote can do so based upon whatever motivations they so choose...that's one of the perils of democracy. However, voter fraud is NOT an accepted peril of democracy; individual motivations for your vote would be, however. It's up to you, and me, and others...

And this is the first time most of us have ever heard of them, which kind of implies this is the first time there has been evidence of foul play. Do you know all the checks and balances that voter registration through ACORN has to go through? It's a long list. Jumping to conclusions from uninformed assumptions is exactly how we have this base of republican voters stating that Obama is a terrorist, arab, and muslim. Your jump to conclusions is a slightly less damaging version of what the people in the OP are doing.

I think your blindness to religious bigotry and racism from the left isn't Wright at all...but blindness is what happens when one puts on the partisan goggles.

I see what you did there...

I've actually gone out searching for examples of the left extremists (I know they're out there... every party has crazies) making equally uninformed, bigoted or just plain hate filled comments about McCain as I hear McCain supporters doing about Obama, and I just can't find them. I could be missing them, but I haven't heard anyone at an Obama rally scream to kill McCain. And I don't think anyone would argue that if they are out there, it's certainly not to the extent that McCain supporters are doing it. Maybe it's just because liberals are a bunch of pussies...

This isn't a partisan kind of thing, it's a fact kind of thing. Facts are not partisan.

[Blue]

Woo Hoo Ohio!

At least we're on T.V. That's good for something...right?

[Young Al Capone]

And you're the one on a uniracer! :p

Yeah, but the thread took the wrong turn, I am just trying to stay upright now.

[Johan]

I've actually gone out searching for examples of the left extremists (I know they're out there... every party has crazies) making equally uninformed, bigoted or just plain hate filled comments about McCain as I hear McCain supporters doing about Obama, and I just can't find them.

Facts are indeed not partisan.

Fact: Several of you are painting McCain/Republicans through guilt by association, by showing that some Republicans are idiotic racist morons (which is true...but of both parties extremes).

Fact: These are professed supporters of McCain, not friends or associates.

Fact: Obama sat for decades under the "Christian" teachings of a racist, misogynistic, adulterous pastor who lives in luxury in retirement; far from the austere teachings of Jesus, who had no place to lay his head, let alone a mansion.

Which is more significant as regards a candidate...the support of strangers who are idiotic, ignorant racists, OR decades of submission to, and socialization with, those who teach and applaud the politics of incendiary, backwards racism, anger and hatred??!!

If you're going to throw stones regarding character based upon association, be careful you're not in a glass house. Or, better yet, be careful your candidate didn't take gobs of money from the people who created the sub-prime mortgage mess, either. That's a helluva glass house.

[ShivaX]

What I'm seeing about ACORN is that its less a conspiracy and more a matter of an extremely poorly run organization. They get paid based on quotas and hired a lot of homeless/drug addicts. So basically you're jonesing or starving and they say they'll give you money if you get some names for them. Oh look a phone book. You just got paid.

Its not like the Dallas Cowboys are going to show up on election day in PA or that someone is going to come in claiming to be a sub shop. Its a very valid concern for people to have, but everything seems to indicate its more a matter of ACORN being an umbrella organization for a lot of voting registration groups, some of which are extremely shady in how they get their votes (ie they don't even check anything and just pay whoever based on how many "voters" they get).

I'm seeing this as being a setup for another 2000 only in reverse. The Republicans will claim the election was stolen from them because of voter fraud and then divest themselves of everything bad that happens because they were "robbed". I didn't buy that shit when it was Gore and I wont buy it if it happens again (in either direction - I'm looking at you people who will cry "racism" if Obama loses).

They're sorting it out pretty well as far as I can tell and killing all the false registrants. The Feds should maybe kick some manpower over to them to help them out and to organize criminal proceedings, but otherwise this isn't as big a deal as people are making it out to be.

[DiBiddilyBop]

Facts are indeed not partisan.

Fact: Several of you are painting McCain/Republicans through guilt by association, by showing that some Republicans are idiotic racist morons (which is true...but of both parties extremes).

Fact: These are professed supporters of McCain, not friends or associates.

I am not engaging in guilt by association, and the only person I could see making broad generalizations like you're suggesting is QueQueg. However, it does seem to appear that there is a much higher percentage of idiotic, racist, fundamentalist morons in the Republican party than there is in the Democratic party if recent media is to be believed (and judging by the sheer number of sources, I don't see any reason not to believe it).

Fact: Obama sat for decades under the "Christian" teachings of a racist, misogynistic, adulterous pastor who lives in luxury in retirement; far from the austere teachings of Jesus, who had no place to lay his head, let alone a mansion.

Which is more significant as regards a candidate...the support of strangers who are idiotic, ignorant racists, OR decades of submission to, and socialization with, those who teach and applaud the politics of incendiary, backwards racism, anger and hatred??!!

Wow, way to not play the guilt by association card. Oh wait... this is a one-way street you drive down.

How about Sarah Palin's close association with a pastor who to this day credits himself for driving a witch out of his small village in Africa? Or her direct involvement and endorsement of a secessionist party in Alaska? McCain sure picked a winner with her. I haven't heard Palin denounce them, however Obama denounced Reverend Wright's speeches (call it political maneuvering if you like... it is what it is). The fact is you don't know if Wright was as bat-shit crazy on a day-to-day basis as he was portrayed by the media (my research indicates that most of the controversial statements were taken from a very limited number of sermons), nor do we know just how often Obama attended his church. For all I know, he was an Easter/Christmas Christian. Personally, I saw "Religulous" this last weekend and thought it was as accurate as it was hilarious, so that gives you a good idea of where I stand on the whole religious slant to begin with.

The fact is that Palin's association with crazies is far better documented and out in the open than Obama's. It also appears that a higher percentage of GOP supporters are fundamentalist crazies and McCain and Palin have done very little to dissuade them of their misconceptions (with the one notable exception McCain showed recently), and instead have supported those misconceptions (by bringing up this ridiculously loose association with Ayers and suggesting that means Obama has "links to terrorism").

If you're going to throw stones regarding character based upon association, be careful you're not in a glass house. Or, better yet, be careful your candidate didn't take gobs of money from the people who created the sub-prime mortgage mess, either. That's a helluva glass house.

I haven't been throwing any stones about character up until this post (and even now, I'm just saying Palin has a history of crazy and maybe McCain didn't make a good decision there). You're trying your best to put words into my mouth (or someone's mouth, but you're just quoting me so I'm assuming me) to boost up your weak-at-best arguments. You brought up ACORN and are continuing to perpetuate the misconception that they committed voter fraud, all I did was point out that you're wrong.

Furthermore, your whole glass house/mortgage crisis bit is hilarious. Speaking of glass houses, maybe you should look up Keating Five. I'm sure you've heard of it, but maybe before you really let loose that particular stone, you should take a look back at your own house.

[Johan]

They're sorting it out pretty well as far as I can tell and killing all the false registrants.

That's a pretty harsh punishment...:D

maybe you should look up Keating Five.

You ought to look up the fact that the Democratic prosecutor in that case repeatedly tried to remove McCain from those being investigated, as McCain was innocent, but the Democrats blocked that so that there would be at least one Republican undergoing investigation. THAT is a fact, from the prosecutor's own testimony/words.

Their main attempt will by the guilt-by-association with the Keating Five scandal in 1990. The only problem is that only Democrats ended up implicated - John McCain was exhonerated - the best that the Democrats investigating could come up with was to refuse to drop McCain from the investigation (going against the wishes of the Democratic prosecutor investigating) and 'reprimand' him for associating with a guy that did bad things - though not with McCain. It will be important to remember these words of the man that actually spent more than a year investigating the Keating Five and John McCain. If you're the type of person who writes letters to the editor - feel free to quote Mr. Robert Bennett:

1.
“I'm in a pretty unique position to talk about John McCain. First, I should tell your listeners I'm a registered Democrat, so I'm not on his side of a lot of issues. But I investigated John McCain for a year and a half, at least, when I was special counsel to the Senate Ethics Committee in the Keating Five, which, by the way, this ‘New York Times’ article goes back to and discusses, goes back years and years. And if there is one thing I am absolutely confident of, it is John McCain is an honest and honest man. I recommended to the Senate Ethics Committee that he be cut out of the case, that there was no evidence against him, and I think for the ‘New York Times’ to dig this up just shows that Senator McCain's public statement about this is correct. It's a smear job.

2.
After reviewing my report, the committee voted on October 23, 1990, to hold a public adjudicatory fact-finding hearing in the matter as to all five senators. This was perhaps the first time the recommendation of a special counsel not to charge a senator was rejected. This was pure politics as the Democrats on the committee did not want to cut McCain loose so that only Democrats would remain in the proceedings. If Senator McCain was not going to be cut loose, in retaliation the Republicans were going to keep Senator Glenn in the proceedings. McCain was the victim of politics, and poor Glenn was held captive to the decision on McCain. So much for nonpartisanship.

Also, Palin, McCain, and Obama all have crazy religious supporters. That's the damn point. This thread is a one-way street to "Republicans are crazy religious racists" when the reality is that ALL of the candidates have problems in that regard. Obama's, in my view, are the most serious. He sat under, and socialized with, an obviously racist adulterous man who now lives in luxury. Wright is a hypocrite at best, and a devil at worst. I'm not sure which.

Oh, and enjoy your Fannie/Freddie bailout, brought to you in part by Obama...on the FF dole to the tune of more money than all but ONE other politician in Washington. One. :D

[ShivaX]

That's a pretty harsh punishment...:D

Haha, I totally missed my typo. I bet that would take care of any sort of voter fraud in the future though.

[DiBiddilyBop]

You ought to look up the fact that the prosecutor in that case repeatedly tried to remove McCain from those being investigated, as McCain was innocent, but the Democrats blocked that so that there would be at least one Republican undergoing investigation. THAT is a fact, from the prosecutor's own testimony/words.

It's notable still that McCain was not convicted of anything, but found to have displayed very poor judgment in the situation. I think it's that poor judgment that we should really focus on, not just the fact that he was involved in some scandal. It's a very public example of his, for lack of a better word, shitty economic judgment.

Also, Palin, McCain, and Obama all have crazy religious supporters. That's the damn point.

And you keep skipping gleefully right on past the point that there are way more of them in the republican camp. This isn't a "hammer on McCain" thread, it's a "boy, a lot of republicans sure are FUCKING NUTS" thread.

[KingGorilla]

I will just say this, on interview after Borat came out, Sacha Cohen said that it was really hard to find people on the street to act like that. He had to seek those kinds of people out in order to get them onto film.

[mister slim]

What I'm seeing about ACORN is that its less a conspiracy and more a matter of an extremely poorly run organization. They get paid based on quotas and hired a lot of homeless/drug addicts. So basically you're jonesing or starving and they say they'll give you money if you get some names for them. Oh look a phone book. You just got paid.


The anti-domestic-partnership Amendment in Oregon had the same problem recently. They sent in a ton of bad signatures on the ballot amendment petition and got denied.

[Johan]

You post this:

Furthermore, your whole glass house/mortgage crisis bit is hilarious. Speaking of glass houses, maybe you should look up Keating Five. I'm sure you've heard of it, but maybe before you really let loose that particular stone, you should take a look back at your own house.

And I specifically point you to the words of the DEMOCRATIC investigator who said he was rebuffed by the Democratic Party when he tried to remove McCain from the investigation because the guy was innocent...and (wait for it now)...

It's notable still that McCain was not convicted of anything, but found to have displayed very poor judgment in the situation.

Do you own stock in straw manufacturing? You're grasping at them desperately. It was political posturing. Period. You keep touting that "Keating Five" story. As regards McCain, it's bullshit, plain and simple. You'd be a bigger man if you admitted that.

And you keep skipping gleefully right on past the point that there are way more of them in the republican camp. This isn't a "hammer on McCain" thread, it's a "boy, a lot of republicans sure are FUCKING NUTS" thread.

Anecdotal, partisan rantings. Ridiculous. No party has a lock on the "FUCKING NUTS" vote. Ask the ELF. Ask PETA.

Seriously...check your facts, base your statements on something more than anecdotes, and come back another time, perhaps.

[LongStepMantis]

See, NOW this place reminds me of my old internet home.

Carry on. ;)

[Food Nipple]

The one thing that always puzzled me about these people is how they can spout these "Obama is a muslim" lines out of one side of their mouth and complain about the Reverend Wright "scandal" out of the other. Don't the two seem mutually exclusive? He can't very well be both a secret muslim terrorist and a christian fanatical at the same time.

[DiBiddilyBop]

You post this:

And I specifically point you to the words of the DEMOCRATIC investigator who said he was rebuffed by the Democratic Party when he tried to remove McCain from the investigation because the guy was innocent...and (wait for it now)...

Do you own stock in straw manufacturing? You're grasping at them desperately. It was political posturing. Period. You keep touting that "Keating Five" story. As regards McCain, it's bullshit, plain and simple. You'd be a bigger man if you admitted that.


Oh yeah, I saw your quote off an openly partisan republican blogspot article (excellent source, btw...). Innocent of illegal practices, yes. Of extremely poor decision making, no. If you want to give the guy a pass because what he did wasn't illegal, just stupid, then you're exactly the crowd the Republicans are aiming at. If you completely ignore McCain's judgment because it wasn't illegal, even though it's directly applicable to the current financial crisis then you deserve what you get.

Anecdotal, partisan rantings. Ridiculous. No party has a lock on the "FUCKING NUTS" vote. Ask the ELF. Ask PETA.

Seriously...check your facts, base your statements on something more than anecdotes, and come back another time, perhaps.

I've checked my facts, and it sure appears that the Republican party has a frighteningly higher percentage of the crazies. You can call it "partisan rantings," but the videos in this thread, elsewhere on youtube, and reported on here (http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/10/14/biden-says-some-reactions-at-mccain-events-scary-2/) and here (http://newsbusters.org/blogs/kyle-drennen/2008/10/13/cbs-highlights-fiery-mccain-campaign-moments-against-obama) seem to back me up. If you'd like to bring any facts to the table (or even evidence that you aren't talking out your ass), I'd be interested in seeing it.

Edit: You forgot to quote the opener to that blogspot article:

As Obama tries to distance himself from his past and the terrorists and racists and America-bashers that seem to inhabit it, they are trying to find a way to similarly club John McCain.

Nice... so it's basically saying Obama's past has all kinds of "terrorists," "racists," and "America-bashers" in it. I completely trust the information this source is giving me. I'm not saying the information from the prosecutor isn't true (it is, I researched it), but I am saying that the sources you get your news from say a lot about your own biases.

[mister slim]

It's kind of odd that it's bad that Obama worked on a committee with and received $200 in contributions from Ayers but it's okay that McCain lobbied for and received $112,000 and and the use of a private jet from Keating.

[Johan]

Oh yeah, I saw your quote off an openly partisan republican blogspot article (excellent source, btw...).

IT'S A QUOTE FROM THE GUY'S OWN BOOK! :rolleyes: Buy yourself a copy and get your facts right! (http://www.amazon.com/Ring-Trials-Washington-Lawyer/dp/0307394433/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1224030197&sr=8-1)

Seriously...if you can't even concede when your own party's investigator tells you the guy did nothing, then I have no hope for you. You've got permanent partisan cataracts.

Innocent of illegal practices, yes. Of extremely poor decision making, no.

This is hilarious! Apply that same logic to Obama's raking in cash from Fannie/Freddie contributions (#2 in contributions of our over 500 reps/senators...silver medal!). I suppose he's got a solution for the sub-prime Fannie/Freddie fiasco, right? Is it hiding behind the bundle of cash in his wallet?

I've checked my facts, and it sure appears that the Republican party has a frighteningly higher percentage of the crazies. You can call it "partisan rantings," but the videos in this thread, elsewhere on youtube, and reported on...blah blah blah.

Yes. Videos are hard data on the number of crazies and their proportions in each of the parties. Yes. You have a Ph.D. in research in your future. :rolleyes:

I completely trust the information this source is giving me. I'm not saying the information from the prosecutor isn't true (it is, I researched it), but I am saying that the sources you get your news from say a lot about your own biases.

Hahahahaha! I pulled the first source I could Google to get what I ALREADY KNEW. You, however, were fundamentally wrong and proved my point in this thread about people casting about for "guilt by association" in unfounded and partisan ways. You see, I know the facts as reported by your own party's investigator, that McCain did NOTHING WRONG AT ALL, but I don't keep a cache of those things on my hard drive. The truth doesn't matter to people, just their own warped interpretation of it. The source didn't matter to me; I already knew what the guy said and I sought it out quickly and painlessly for my own ease. You continue ignoring it, as you have to this point.

Enjoy your blinders. I like the truth. I gave you a few doses. It doesn't seem to agree with your digestion too well, however. :rolleyes:

[DiBiddilyBop]

IT'S A QUOTE FROM THE GUY'S OWN BOOK! :rolleyes: Buy yourself a copy and get your facts right! (http://www.amazon.com/Ring-Trials-Washington-Lawyer/dp/0307394433/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1224030197&sr=8-1)

Seriously...if you can't even concede when your own party's investigator tells you the guy did nothing, then I have no hope for you. You've got permanent partisan cataracts.

This is hilarious! Apply that same logic to Obama's raking in cash from Fannie/Freddie contributions (#2 in contributions of our over 500 reps/senators...silver medal!). I suppose he's got a solution for the sub-prime Fannie/Freddie fiasco, right? Is it hiding behind the bundle of cash in his wallet?

How do you not understand the difference between illegal practices (the kind a lawyer is concerned about) and stupid decision making (the kind I'm concerned about and you should be)? I have conceded that he did nothing illegal. Several times now. Why do you keep implying that I haven't?

Obama has already put hard solutions to the mortgage crisis. Republicans don't even back McCain's ideas. Buy up the bad mortgages? Seriously? McCain has shown nothing but bad decisions on top of more bad decisions, with announced plans to make more bad decisions.

Yes. Videos are hard data on the number of crazies and their proportions in each of the parties. Yes. You have a Ph.D. in research in your future. :rolleyes:

I love how you blah blah blahd the CNN and CBS links, actual news outlets reporting on the racism, bigotry, and ignorance surrounding the Republican campaign. Just focus on the part of my argument that you think is weak (yes, videos are hard evidence... notice the difference between "evidence" and "data," which you don't seem to know) and ignore the strong points. You have a Ph.D. in debate in your future :rolleyes:

Hahahahaha! I pulled the first source I could Google to get what I ALREADY KNEW. You, however, were fundamentally wrong and proved my point in this thread about people casting about for "guilt by association" in unfounded and partisan ways. You see, I know the facts as reported by your own party's investigator, that McCain did NOTHING WRONG AT ALL, but I don't keep a cache of those things on my hard drive. The truth doesn't matter to people, just their own warped interpretation of it. The source didn't matter to me; I already knew what the guy said and I sought it out quickly and painlessly for my own ease. You continue ignoring it, as you have to this point.

Enjoy your blinders. I like the truth. I gave you a few doses. It doesn't seem to agree with your digestion too well, however. :rolleyes:

You keep saying "nothing wrong" when you mean to say "nothing illegal." McCain did many, many things wrong in the Keating Five scandal. Your sources, positions, and rhetoric just shows how ridiculously partisan you are, and how little regard you have for facts in front of your face. For someone who likes to refer to people throwing stones in glass houses, you throw around the word "partisan" like it's going out of style while ignoring your own blatantly obvious biases.

[Johan]

I have conceded that he did nothing illegal. Several times now. Why do you keep implying that I haven't?

You introduced the whole scandal to taint McCain with an investigation that even your own party's investigator said turned up NOTHING. In a BOOK he wrote. Which I quoted for you. I even linked to it. You should buy it. And read it.

That's why.

I should start mentioning Obama's middle name. Not because there's anything wrong with it, you know...just to get it "out there" like you're doing with the Keating Five "issue." Make something out of nothing! It's the partisan way!

Obama has already put hard solutions to the mortgage crisis.

Yes. I see he requested improved oversight of Fannie and Freddie several years ago. Oh, wait...that was McCain. Sorry. Obama just took money from them. "Nothing illegal" as you would say. Just "WRONG."

Republicans don't even back McCain's ideas. Buy up the bad mortgages? Seriously? McCain has shown nothing but bad decisions on top of more bad decisions, with announced plans to make more bad decisions.

Exactly right. You see, I'm not a McCain partisan. I'm not an Obama partisan. I'm not a Republican nor a Democrat. My last four presidential votes have been evenly split between both parties. I recognize, quite correctly I believe, that NEITHER of them has a fucking clue how to resolve this crisis, and that BOTH of them have been a part of the system that has allowed it to get this bad.

So, I'm not holding my breath. If McCain wins, I'll get more conservative judges (which I like). If Obama wins, I'll get paid more and see more money taken from people of wealth and given to me (which I like).

Either way, I'll win! :D

I love how you blah blah blahd the CNN and CBS links, actual news outlets reporting on the racism, bigotry, and ignorance surrounding the Republican campaign.

You show me RESEARCHED data that shows a measurable, objective difference between the parties as regards racism and the like, and we'll have something to go on.

MSM for research? Yeah...you've got nothing.

Also, if Obama loses, it won't be racist Republicans who cost him the election, it will be racist Democrats, and bitter feminist Democrats, who do so...

You keep saying "nothing wrong" when you mean to say "nothing illegal." McCain did many, many things wrong in the Keating Five scandal.

Yes, and Obama's work with ACORN wasn't illegal either. Nor is his taking money from Fannie/Freddie. Not illegal. Just WRONG.

If only you could figure out what McCain did wrong in the Keating Five, you might be able to prosecute him! :rolleyes: Then...you can write a book! I promise, I'll quote it in a post or two!

[EternalGamer]

And electing either one of our major-party candidates does WHAT to change ANYTHING exactly? :confused:

Obama and McCain are neck deep in the very problems we face. Obama is a major benefactor of money from Fannie/Freddie, and chose the consummate insider to be his vice presidential pick. .


FALSE. Obviously only employees, not the organization, can donate. But if you go by this election cycle, McCain, not Obama has recieved more money from Fanny Mae employees. Fact check that stuff before you go spouting it around. I would find the CNN link for you, but I'm lazy (and drunk at the moment).

[Xerxes]

OOoh! Speaking of both ACORN and dumbasses regurgitating talkingpoints fed to them by the McCain campaign (and on the issue of tax-cuts in particular), this video pertains to both issues:

4O2N71sJTR0

It also happens to be very funny (particularly Dana Gould's comments right at the end) :)

What show is this? This is pretty good especially that line about Palin not having the gene to be embarrassed. :D

[Johan]

FALSE. Obviously only employees, not the organization, can donate.

Well that's a big DUH! :D

But if you go by this election cycle, McCain, not Obama has recieved more money from Fanny Mae employees. Fact check that stuff before you go spouting it around. I would find the CNN link for you, but I'm lazy (and drunk at the moment).

Well sober up and link to some facts!

Both McCain and Obama have Fannie/Freddie people groping them in their campaigns, however. NEITHER of them will do anything substantial, besides throw American money (is it still called money? How about 'toilet paper' by now?) at the problem.

Both of them are turds... (http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0708/11781.html)

Obama brings in the bucks. #2! (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,423701,00.html)

Found it for you, EG. McCain is beating Obama in '08 in at least one category...money from FF. (http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/10/07/fact-check-did-obama-get-second-most-money-from-freddie-and-fannie/)

Obama, in four years, has taken more than all but one other Washington politician from FF, however, as I said earlier.

[Bingley Joe]

Facts are indeed not partisan.

Fact: Several of you are painting McCain/Republicans through guilt by association, by showing that some Republicans are idiotic racist morons (which is true...but of both parties extremes).

Post a video showing similar idiotic, racist, moronic antics. Just for kicks.

Fact: These are professed supporters of McCain, not friends or associates.

Fact: Obama sat for decades under the "Christian" teachings of a racist, misogynistic, adulterous pastor who lives in luxury in retirement; far from the austere teachings of Jesus, who had no place to lay his head, let alone a mansion.

And Palin worships with a fucking witch hunter. Do you have any idea how misogynist the practice of casting out witches in Africa is?? I do. It's fucking mediaeval shit, Johan, involving stoning, beatings, exile, and quite often death. And it's taken VERY SERIOUSLY. Make no mistake.

Palin also believes in the rapture. And Creationism. And that she's doing God's Work™ running for VP. They're not even in the same ballpark religiously, and you're far too smart to pretend otherwise.

Meanwhile, these idiotic racist morons still insist Obama's a muslim. Hmmmm... I wonder where they got that idea from?

[Johan]

Do you have any idea how misogynist the practice of casting out witches in Africa is?? I do.

I don't think it's our job to morally police the world. Do you? :confused: That doesn't seem terribly "liberal" nor "tolerant." :D

And why would you know about "witch-casting-out-in-Africa" stuff? No..please don't tell me! ;)

Meanwhile, these idiotic racist morons still insist Obama's a muslim. Hmmmm... I wonder where they got that idea from?

As I've said, the Republicans who believe so won't cost you anything. However, the Democrats who think that, or who are bitter over Hillary's loss...

they could.

I think Obama will win. I see a teacher's pay raise coming. Thank you, Obama! Also, potentially a tax cut! Thank you, rich people!

[Bingley Joe]

What show is this? This is pretty good especially that line about Palin not having the gene to be embarrassed. :D

I'm pretty sure the show is called "Real Time With Bill Maher", but I can't tell you anything more about it because I don't really ever watch TV.

There are some great clips from the show available online though -- you should definitely spend a day or two watching them if this one piques your interest.

[KingGorilla]

There is an audio podcast of Real Time available. It would just be nice if Bill were ever half as informed as he thinks he is with most of the subjects he takes on. It is like Gaff come to life. Also, the man is not funny, he just hires good writers.

[Bingley Joe]

Fact: Obama sat for decades under the "Christian" teachings of a racist, misogynistic, adulterous pastor who lives in luxury in retirement; far from the austere teachings of Jesus, who had no place to lay his head, let alone a mansion.

And Palin worships with a fucking witch hunter. Do you have any idea how misogynist the practice of casting out witches in Africa is?? I do. It's fucking mediaeval shit, Johan, involving stoning, beatings, exile, and quite often death. And it's taken VERY SERIOUSLY. Make no mistake.

I don't think it's our job to morally police the world. Do you? :confused: That doesn't seem terribly "liberal" nor "tolerant." :D

Now I'm :confused: It sure seems as though Obama's pastor's alleged misogyny was important enough for you to have mentioned it.. but when it comes to the character of Palin's religious leaders, it's suddenly "not our job to morally police the world?"

I don't think you get to have it both ways, and to be perfectly frank, the witch hunter trumps everyone in this discussion.

You certainly are a sneaky dancer in these threads though, I'll give you that. Might want to consider running for public office some day :)

And why would you know about "witch-casting-out-in-Africa" stuff? No..please don't tell me! ;)

OK, I will ;) I worked on a documentary dealing with precisely that topic as it pertains to women in Ghana; I've been to the witch camps. It's not a good situation to say the least.

[ShivaX]

As I've said, the Republicans who believe so won't cost you anything. However, the Democrats who think that, or who are bitter over Hillary's loss...

Unless one goes Oswald or Hinckley on us. Honestly thats my biggest concern with these nutjobs.


I think Obama will win. I see a teacher's pay raise coming. Thank you, Obama!
Thats been overdue for... well forever. Education is the only hope for this country and its been shit on for as long as I've been alive. There is a culture of ignorance out there that destroying us in the world.

Also, potentially a tax cut! Thank you, rich people!
I'd feel bad for them if they didn't have so much it went beyond the pale. I like the idea of them having money to invest in things, but the reality is most of them just sit on their millions (sometimes billions) and help noone while living in such splendor that it puts Rome to shame a thousand times over.

[Johan]

I don't think you get to have it both ways, and to be perfectly frank, the witch hunter trumps everyone in this discussion.

Point conceded!


I've been to the witch camps. It's not a good situation to say the least.

I can only imagine. :eek:

[Bingley Joe]

Point conceded!

:eek: ... who are you, and what have you done with Johan!?!?

:D

I can only imagine. :eek:

Yeah, it was a crazy place. Here's a pic -- not one of the better ones I shot, but unfortunately since the doc is still in production, I'm not at liberty to share those at this point.

This is Gambaga, in Northeast Ghana, not far from the border at Burkina Faso:

http://homepage.mac.com/hannaimaging/stuff/GambagaPan.jpg

It was actually quite a beautiful village, in a stark, dusty sort of way.

All of the women there (there were about 60 total, and except for the chief, there are only women living there) have been declared witches by their communities, and were forced to flee. Some were helped to escape by a sympathetic family member, but the majority will never see their children or families ever again, because more often than not, witches end up being beaten or stoned to death in Ghana.

The reason they are tolerated in Gambaga, is that the people there believe that the village's chief has the ability to dispel their powers, so that as long as they stay in the village, they will be unable to practice witchcraft.

It was an incredibly interesting experience going to a place like that with all my Western preconceptions of what 'witchcraft' is, and speak to all kinds of people for whom it is a very very real and powerful force in their lives. Not just 'country folk', either, but doctors, lawyers, politicians professors, etc. all over the country.. Some of the stories they told were truly chilling, and I couldn't help but shift my thinking on the subject after having spent time talking to them about it.

That said, it is an incredibly complex social issue, and the women who are stigmatized by this - most of whom are elderly, and very often falsely accused by jealous neighbours, or blamed for outbreaks of disease, etc. - suffer tremendously, and their stories were truly heartbreaking.




EDIT: now that's how you take a thread off-topic, folks! ;)

[Ancalagon]

It was an incredibly interesting experience going to a place like that with all my Western preconceptions of what 'witchcraft' is, and speak to all kinds of people for whom it is a very very real and powerful force in their lives. Not just 'country folk', either, but doctors, lawyers, politicians professors, etc. all over the country.. Some of the stories they told were truly chilling, and I couldn't help but shift my thinking on the subject after having spent time talking to them about it.

Its like that in South Africa too - there are sangomas (good magic practitioners as far as I remember), witchdoctors, curses, etc. Its all real to them. Perhaps stranger, they blend it with Christianity. I cant say I've seen or heard anything to make me believe in it myself, but for most Africans, witchcraft is real and is often punishable by a counter curse, or death.

[DiBiddilyBop]

You know, Johan... you do have a knack for ignoring arguments that you know you're losing and shifting the focus to something you think you can win, I'll give you that. Unfortunately, you haven't substantially rebuked anything I've said, and instead keep insisting that you're non-partisan, although your only real way to attack my arguments is to try to highlight weaknesses with Obama. I've hardly mentioned Obama in this thread. In fact, the only positive thing I've had to say about him is that he's put forward some solid ideas for solving the mortgage crisis. You're the one who repeatedly dons the partisan hat in defending McCain. In summary:

You implied that ACORN committed voter fraud, which is absolutely false. There's no debating it, it's a fact.

I've pointed out that all evidence suggests that the Republican base has a far greater percentage of radicals than the democratic base. You can't argue that, because it's a fact... the evidence does point that way. You can ask for researched data, but it's like a creationist asking for verifiable proof of evolution. You're asking for something because you know it doesn't exist, and thereby claiming a golden ticket to ignore the most likely conclusions based on the evidence.

I did bring up Keating Five (after you brought up the sub-prime mortgage crisis... don't act like I just pulled it out of the blue) as an example of McCain's poor decision making which was a precursor to the mortgage crisis. You keep pointing at the democratic prosecutor's exhauneration of McCain, and ignoring the fact that the Senate Ethics Committee criticized him for this poor decision making. Your only argument after that was to say Obama did things wrong too. Yeah... no shit... doesn't change the fact that McCain made terrible choices that are directly related to our current situation, and is continuing to make bad decisions which I'm happy to see you admit.

These are the facts, and they are not partisan.

Let me make this clear... criticizing Obama in answer to criticism of McCain is a partisan tactic. I'm not engaging in it, you are. Your accusations of "partisanship" and "guilt by association" are particularly ridiculous, given the arguments you have made in this very thread. You have used both of these tactics, I have used neither.

Anyway... that's all I have to say on the issue. I was going to be done last night, but... I dunno. I'm masochistic I guess.

[QueQueg]

This forum software needs a way to up/down-vote people's posts.

DiBiddilyBop, that was an excellent post.

[Johan]

You implied that ACORN committed voter fraud, which is absolutely false. There's no debating it, it's a fact.

THAT is pretty damn funny. Also, totally, incomprehensibly, WRONG.

Fact. (http://www.nypost.com/seven/10142008/news/politics/bogus_voter_booted_amid_probe_of_acorn_133540.htm)

The vote of Darnell Nash, one of four people subpoenaed in a Cuyahoga County probe of ACORN's voter-registration activities, was canceled and his case was turned over to local prosecutors and law enforcement, Board of Elections officials said yesterday.

Nash had registered to vote repeatedly from an address that belonged to a legitimately registered voter, officials said during a hearing at which the subpoenaed voters were to testify.

Board officials had contacted Nash this summer, questioned his address and told him to stop repeat registering.

But still, he breezed into Ohio election offices - the state allows early voting for president - reregistered with a fake address and cast a paper ballot, officials said.

VOTER FRAUD. FACT! ACORN...false registration...illegal vote cast...FACT! :D

I've pointed out that all evidence suggests that the Republican base has a far greater percentage of radicals than the democratic base. You can't argue that, because it's a fact...

The best kinds of facts are the ones we pull out of our asses, aren't they? Back up your anecdote with FACTS. Otherwise, you've got nothing. Insanity, racism, demagoguery, and the like are quite evenly balanced at either extreme of the political spectrum. Oh, and by the way, PETA, the ELF, and the Animal Liberation Front are calling your name.

Seriously...any sentence on the Internet that says "you can't argue that, because it's a fact" is just...damn, it's just stupid!

I did bring up Keating Five

Yes, you did. And I shot it to hell and back. Go buy that book and stop revising history!

These are the facts, and they are not partisan.

This is too rich. Thank you for the humor on a slow day!

Let me make this clear... criticizing Obama in answer to criticism of McCain is a partisan tactic. I'm not engaging in it, you are.

Let me make this clear...continuing to mention the "Keating Five" is highly partisan, INCORRECT historically in the way you insinuate McCain's behavior in that incident, and just plain wrong.

I'm not engaging in it, you are.

This has been fun. Get your facts together and we can go at it again. Except...try to be right!