[Rumor] PS3 Slim/Pricecut Imminent? [Archive]

DoctorFinger

08-05-2009, 01:49 PM

At this point it's still too thinly sourced and speculative to go on the front page, but I think it's time to start discussing the newest Tsunami of PS3 Slim/PS3 price cut rumors (http://www.gamespot.com/news/blogs/rumor-control/909119209/26987547/ps3-slim-resurfaces-sony-hardware-orders-double.html?part=rss&tag=gs_news&subj=6214810).

I admit that I was fairly dismissive of the PS3 Slim rumors - for a number of reasons - but it's looking more and more likely not only to happen but happen for this Holiday season. Japanese retailers are reportedly telling consumers that the 80GB PS3s will be discontinued sometime this month. At the moment the 80GB unit is the only PS3 on sale in Japan, so something will have to replace it. The recent tidbit that Sony has cut 70% off the production costs for the system only fuel the fires. I had been planning on (finally!) buying a PS3 before the end of the summer, but now I'm going to wait out the price cut.

Gorvi

08-05-2009, 01:54 PM

DoctorFinger

08-05-2009, 01:56 PM

Gorvi

08-05-2009, 01:56 PM

Gorvi, there's a presser I need you to live blog....
Sure, get me the day off work. ;) Or better yet, fly me there, I've always wanted to visit Germany. :)

Wraith

08-05-2009, 01:58 PM

A few sites were posting a picture (not the potential box shots we saw earlier) of a slim PS3 that was on the (now removed) German Amazon Slim PS3 product page, but that pic was proven fake.

This is the part that seems the most telling:Next, the semi-reliable Taiwanese hardware news site Digitimes reported that Sony has "placed significant orders for key Sony PS3 components," doubling demand and leaving suppliers scrambling to churn them out.

Orca

08-05-2009, 01:58 PM

I think that presser is always around the three hour mark. The block of time includes the gathering after the actual presentation.

AgtFox

08-05-2009, 01:58 PM

It looks like their 3 freaking hour press conference at GamesCon later this month is where the announcements will be. If they do announce a price cut expect it to be immediate, companies don't announce price cuts in advance as it slows down the sale of the product until the price cut actually goes into effect.
The rumors I've heard are that the PS3 Slim will be shown off at GamesCon, the price will come at Tokyo Game Show in September.

The GamesCon press conference could be a bunch of things: games, PSP Go, more on the motion control, etc. along with the supposed PS3 Slim announcement.

The big question is if they will go $50 or $100 cheaper if they are going to drop the price. $50 may be too little too late. Also I would expect Microsoft and Nintendo to drop prices right after Sony does in order to lessen whatever effect there may be.

pomeroy

08-05-2009, 02:00 PM

Drop that price, Sony.

I wanna play God of War 3 when it comes out.

Gorvi

08-05-2009, 02:06 PM

At this point they need a $100 cut, $50 is just way too little. $100 cut and pack a game in there, like LittleBigPlanet.

AgtFox

08-05-2009, 02:15 PM

At this point they need a $100 cut, $50 is just way too little. $100 cut and pack a game in there, like LittleBigPlanet.
It would be the smart thing to do, but we are talking about modern generation Sony here where they consistently make wrong moves it seems.

I'd like to point out two articles by my good friend Bill Harris from Dubious Quality. He is a numbers guy in his real life job and he is generally really good at pointing out things.

First article (http://dubiousquality.blogspot.com/2009/07/console-post-of-week-heading-downward.html) is about year to year console sales (total and by system) between 2008 and 2009 in the U.S.

Second one (http://dubiousquality.blogspot.com/2009/07/earnings.html) is about Sony's recent quarterly report and he quantifies the only way for Sony to get close to their fiscal year number of 13 million consoles sold is to drop the price by $100 and pray. They have only sold about 1.46 million units from the beginning of their fiscal year (March 2009). They have 8 months to sell 11.54 million units...$50 certainly won't do that.

It is also interesting to note from the first article that the 360 is the only one to have at least flat numbers when compared to the same last 3 month period as last year. Wii has dropped sharply (51% over the last 3 months) as has the PS3 (47% over the same time).

Also important to note that he uses the NPD as his basis for the numbers. Although NPD is the best numbers we have, it does not include sales at places like Wal-Mart.

Yeti2005

08-05-2009, 03:15 PM

At this point they need a $100 cut, $50 is just way too little. $100 cut and pack a game in there, like LittleBigPlanet.

I think they'll cut it by $100 to match MS's prices. Doesn't the rumor go that the PS3 slim will have a smaller HD and no wifi (and obviously no BC)? Do the current gen PS3's have card readers (I know my old 80gb does)? They could drop that too from the Slim.

If this is true it will be interesting to see if MS responses. The 360 rumor is the Elite will move to the Pro price point ($299) and going forward there will be only two skus.

Sandman

08-05-2009, 03:22 PM

I don't think I'd be interested in a slim PS3. They'd probably cut something out I actually use to make it slim. Plus I don't mind the size of my current model.

RandoM51

08-05-2009, 03:38 PM

It would be the smart thing to do, but we are talking about modern generation Sony here where they consistently make wrong moves it seems.

The way I look at it they made one major mistake, almost everything else has just been collateral damage. Krazy Ken and the $599 console isn't something you just fix overnight unless you have a really, really big farm of money trees on one hand and a silver bullet for the Wii monster on the other.

As far as the rumors are concerned, a new PS3 is coming, they've been stockpiling 45nm parts for awhile now. Whether it actually comes out in a slimmer form factor, or sees a significant price reduction remains to be seen.

JayK47

08-05-2009, 03:48 PM

I don't think I'd be interested in a slim PS3. They'd probably cut something out I actually use to make it slim. Plus I don't mind the size of my current model.

True. They already got rid of BC, so I wonder what else is on the chopping block. I would only be interested in a PS3 if it were BC and at least $100 less than it is now. And since BC has been dropped, older units that have it are holding their value. I doubt they will add BC to the slim, so I may as well wait for the PS4 or just stop caring about PS all together.

RandoM51

08-05-2009, 03:58 PM

TheEpicOfTyler

08-05-2009, 04:08 PM

I thought Jaffe was making some rumblings about a $200 price point a few days ago? I can't imagine that would be true, but I don't remember any follow up.

Hawkzombie

08-05-2009, 04:10 PM

They don't have to cut anything at all to make a slimmer PS3. Die shrinks typically---not always---make for less heat. Less heat means you need less cooling, which can mean smaller/fewer heatsinks and fans. Anybody who has looked inside a PS3 has seen a monster heatsink and fan. The latest fat PS3 units consume less power and generate less heat and noise.

On top of that another simple way to slim down the PS3 is to give it an external instead of internal power supply, which conveniently enough further reduces the cooling requirements of the main unit.

They did it with the PSOne, and the 360 is currently doing it...If it meant a cooler, cheaper unit, I might be down to replace my existing one. If they added BC back and even charged the same price as new ones now I'd get it in a second....so pissed I didn't just opt for the 60gb when I had the chance.

EDIT: And what about them filing a patent (or was it trademark/copyright?) for the technology for emulating PS2 games? Think they might actually be working on a better software BC and start to release new units with it?

RandoM51

08-05-2009, 04:35 PM

EDIT: And what about them filing a patent (or was it trademark/copyright?) for the technology for emulating PS2 games? Think they might actually be working on a better software BC and start to release new units with it?

I would guess that is for downloadable ps2 games more than allowing any PS3 owner to play PS2 games they already own on their PS3s. I am cynical, though.

Yeti2005

08-05-2009, 06:37 PM

True. They already got rid of BC, so I wonder what else is on the chopping block. I would only be interested in a PS3 if it were BC and at least $100 less than it is now. And since BC has been dropped, older units that have it are holding their value. I doubt they will add BC to the slim, so I may as well wait for the PS4 or just stop caring about PS all together.

The rumor is wifi is on the chopping block along with a smaller HD.

RandoM51

08-05-2009, 07:08 PM

The way the drive market works a smaller drive won't necessarily save any money unless you're moving from a multi-platter drive to a single-platter drive.

The 2.5 inch drives in the PS3 currently are probably 1 platter for the 80 and 2 platter for the 160. You don't save any money by going smaller than 80GB today because the drive manufacturers aren't interested in using any of their production capacity to make platters of less density than 80GB.

Gorvi

08-05-2009, 07:43 PM

Yeah, I was going to say, a smaller HDD makes very little sense. The lack of WiFi thing I also haven't seen anywhere, but if they had to remove something it would be the easiest thing to replace.

KamaItachi

08-05-2009, 08:08 PM

I'd take a dive for a PS3 that does nothing but play games and blu-ray. I"d expect it to be a good deal cheaper though. They're still $600 odd on these shores which is pretty prohibitive.

Ondo

08-05-2009, 08:23 PM

If they do announce a price cut expect it to be immediate, companies don't announce price cuts in advance as it slows down the sale of the product until the price cut actually goes into effect.
Didn't Sony announce the drop to $400 before it took effect? Or was it just that everyone knew about it beforehand?

And what about them filing a patent (or was it trademark/copyright?) for the technology for emulating PS2 games? Think they might actually be working on a better software BC and start to release new units with it?
It was a patent for emulating the emotion engine. However, patents can be issued a while after the technology is released, and this seems to just be what was in the backwards-compatible 80gb machines. It's the PS2's graphics synthesizer that needs to be emulated for the newer PS3s.

Google turns up some rumors of a patent for emulating the graphics synthesizer, but they don't look credible to me.

Second one (http://dubiousquality.blogspot.com/2009/07/earnings.html) is about Sony's recent quarterly report and he quantifies the only way for Sony to get close to their fiscal year number of 13 million consoles sold is to drop the price by $100 and pray. They have only sold about 1.46 million units from the beginning of their fiscal year (March 2009). They have 8 months to sell 11.54 million units...$50 certainly won't do that.
I'm hoping they've got something up the sleeve to increase the appeal of the PS3 (ideally along with a $100 price drop). With the press conference at Games Con and the Tokyo Game Show (on "New Tactics for 2009") they have the ability to announce anything. It's purely wishful thinking, but I'd love to see the PS3 play everything Playstation - adding back in PS2 compatibility and allowing downloaded PSP games to play on it.

There's also the possibility of getting stereoscopic 3D - they showed it off at CES in January, and last December Blitz Games said it would be coming to the PS3 in 2009 (from Wikipedia here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Playstation_3#Stereoscopic_3D)).

Hawkzombie

08-05-2009, 08:23 PM

I would guess that is for downloadable ps2 games more than allowing any PS3 owner to play PS2 games they already own on their PS3s. I am cynical, though.

Sadly, you may be right. I keep holding out hope, though.

Purple Santa

08-05-2009, 09:54 PM

I am rooting for Sony to do this. I want to see a game machine that Sony will make people buy it in droves (or more than has so far). You have to wonder if Sony keeps losing money with the Playstation or if they did...would they stay in the hardware end of gaming? I know that's a stretch and way to early to call but...I rather see Sony succeed, make some money, have their financial picture become a bit rosier so they can keep battling MS in later console wars.

fitbabits

08-05-2009, 11:31 PM

A lower-priced PS3 slim/GT5 bundle would clean up at Christmas time. I don't think it will happen that soon, though.

Deadend

08-05-2009, 11:32 PM

I kind of think Sony should keep the price up.

Wait for the Motion Controller to be done, package it all together for $100 less and throw in 2 games.

As I am not sure $100 price drop will help the PS3 too much this fall.

But a cheaper PS3 that can also do Wii stuff, has the camera, Final Fantasy XIII and God of War 3? Yeah, that will move some units.

jpublic

08-06-2009, 07:55 AM

Why the hell would they remove Wifi? Of all the 'premium' features the PS3 has, that's one of the cheapest. It also would piss off a load of potential customers, and make it harder for people to use your online service.

RandoM51

08-06-2009, 08:08 AM

Removing WiFi would also bring down the cooling requirements for the console. Always on WiFi chipsets run relatively hot.

As to why they would do it? Simple, even if that only costs them dollars per unit, just multiply those dollars by millions of units.

Gorvi

08-06-2009, 08:10 AM

Wraith

08-06-2009, 08:56 AM

How much could the WiFi component cost them anyway? Isn't that hardware dirty cheap to begin with? And as far as space/cooling, every DS (phat, slim, i) has had WiFi. I don't remember the specs; maybe the PS3 is 802.11g while DS is b, but it still can't be that big of a difference.

violent

08-06-2009, 08:59 AM

Why exactly would it not help this year?

Alleviating the biggest gripe that prevents people from adopting is obviously not gonna help.

Gorvi

08-06-2009, 09:05 AM

Alleviating the biggest gripe that prevents people from adopting is obviously not gonna help.
Nah, the thing has no games either. They really need to fix that shit.

RandoM51

08-06-2009, 09:29 AM

Word is leaking out that existing stock across Europe will drop to 299 euro end of next week. Shipments have been down too, it would seem to me that they're clearing existing stock in anticipation of something.

Yeti2005

08-06-2009, 10:24 AM

Both companies are expected to drop their price soon. I'd be more excited about the price war if I didn't already own a PS3 and a 360.

divinechaos

08-06-2009, 10:28 AM

A $100 drop on a PS3 wouldn't make me get one. Add Little Big Planet, Killzone and Uncharted and then we can talk.

Wraith

08-06-2009, 10:34 AM

A $100 drop on a PS3 wouldn't make me get one. Add Little Big Planet, Killzone and Uncharted and then we can talk.Are you saying you want a $180 price drop (LBP $60, Killzone 2 $60, Uncharted 1 $60), or a $280 price drop ($100 hardware price cut + those three games)? I seriously doubt Sony's going to sell a PS3 for (effectively) $220, and absolutely not $120.

pomeroy

08-06-2009, 11:20 AM

I think Gorvi had it right...$100 and a game. I'd be sold (and I'm broke).

jpublic

08-06-2009, 11:22 AM

If they drop it by $100 (no pack ins) but leave the Wifi, I'll buy.

divinechaos

08-06-2009, 12:41 PM

Are you saying you want a $180 price drop (LBP $60, Killzone 2 $60, Uncharted 1 $60), or a $280 price drop ($100 hardware price cut + those three games)? I seriously doubt Sony's going to sell a PS3 for (effectively) $220, and absolutely not $120.

Alright, maybe 3 games is a bit much but I just don't see me paying $300 unless it comes with Uncharted and/or Little Big Planet. And if they happen to take WiFi out then I'll definitely won't be getting one for a while.

Kelegacy

08-06-2009, 12:56 PM

I think Gorvi had it right...$100 and a game. I'd be sold (and I'm broke).

I have a PS3 but it's dead and I'd rather buy a cheaper new one than pay Sony $150 to MAYBE fix it. It's not a set-in-stone final price apparently.

I'm having MotorStorm withdrawals, I really need to play a PS3. What's the PS3 at now, 399? Grr, even at $299, I would hesitate unfortunately. I'd need to sell a few things to make myself feel better about the purchase.

...or just cave and get my PS3 fixed. :(

OldJadedGamer

08-06-2009, 05:18 PM

Yeah, I was going to say, a smaller HDD makes very little sense. The lack of WiFi thing I also haven't seen anywhere, but if they had to remove something it would be the easiest thing to replace.

The wifi on the PS3 is redundant since the system already has an ethernet port. On a system like the Wii it's a requirement since there is no other way to get online except for the wifi.

Sony already showed with the 20 gig that it's not a requirement for the system and it's not a bullet point they have really pounded on so removing it wouldn't be a big deal at this point.

Hawkzombie

08-06-2009, 05:21 PM

The wifi on the PS3 is redundant since the system already has an ethernet port. On a system like the Wii it's a requirement since there is no other way to get online except for the wifi.

Sony already showed with the 20 gig that it's not a requirement for the system and it's not a bullet point they have really pounded on so removing it wouldn't be a big deal at this point.

Too bad I'd never be able to get online then :p...Sadly, I don't have the means of wiring my home for a wired Ethernet, and the router is downstairs in the basement with my computer. I'd imagine I'm not the only one with a similar situation...although I'll admit we're probably a very small minority.

OldJadedGamer

08-06-2009, 06:08 PM

Too bad I'd never be able to get online then :p...Sadly, I don't have the means of wiring my home for a wired Ethernet, and the router is downstairs in the basement with my computer. I'd imagine I'm not the only one with a similar situation...although I'll admit we're probably a very small minority.

I've heard this situation before but don't know why people put their router near their computer. My laptop has wireless built in, and I paid 12 dollars for a wireless PCI card for my desktop. It doesn't matter where I move my computers they will be online. In my current house, my router sits behind my TV out of sight on the TV stand.

Since I've been online gaming since the Sega Saturn, always made sure whatever house I had my router/modem came in near my TV. My Dreamcast/PS2/GameCube/Xbox/PS3/360/Tivo are all hardwired to the internet with no problems.

For many IMO the issue isn't that their game machines are so far away from their router is that their routers are in spots where they don't really have to be. Now I understand if you're a kid and you have it in your bedroom and mom/pop had the router where they want it but it's not like the router is tied down to your computer.

Hawkzombie

08-06-2009, 06:20 PM

I've heard this situation before but don't know why people put their router near their computer. My laptop has wireless built in, and I paid 12 dollars for a wireless PCI card for my desktop. It doesn't matter where I move my computers they will be online. In my current house, my router sits behind my TV out of sight on the TV stand.

Since I've been online gaming since the Sega Saturn, always made sure whatever house I had my router/modem came in near my TV. My Dreamcast/PS2/GameCube/Xbox/PS3/360/Tivo are all hardwired to the internet with no problems.

For many IMO the issue isn't that their game machines are so far away from their router is that their routers are in spots where they don't really have to be. Now I understand if you're a kid and you have it in your bedroom and mom/pop had the router where they want it but it's not like the router is tied down to your computer.

See, I said it was downstairs with the computer, never said it was NEAR it ;)

In my setup, I couldn't put my router near the TV. The Cable Modem has two options...either down in the basement by the furnace (where they installed the whole setup for my house) or in the original room where it was upstairs. Either way, I've got no choice but to run a 50 ft Ethernet cord from the router to the computer (as it is now) or to the systems. And having 50ft of cable run through your house is annoying, especially since there's no way to properly 'hide it' now that we moved the TV.

I'd love to be able to run it wired, but right now it's a no-go.

OldJadedGamer

08-06-2009, 06:30 PM

See, I said it was downstairs with the computer, never said it was NEAR it ;)

In my setup, I couldn't put my router near the TV. The Cable Modem has two options...either down in the basement by the furnace (where they installed the whole setup for my house) or in the original room where it was upstairs. Either way, I've got no choice but to run a 50 ft Ethernet cord from the router to the computer (as it is now) or to the systems. And having 50ft of cable run through your house is annoying, especially since there's no way to properly 'hide it' now that we moved the TV.

I'd love to be able to run it wired, but right now it's a no-go.

I understand this. I have a buddy that has his in his garage under his house so he has to drill holes in the floor to get to it hardwired.

fitbabits

08-06-2009, 07:49 PM

OldJadedGamer

08-06-2009, 07:55 PM

If Sony drops the price of the PS3 by $100, you can almost bet your genitals that Microsoft will follow suit with a comparable price drop of their own.

Also, and I don't think this has been mentioned, what if the rumored price drop is simply a 'price adjustment'? For example, lower the price of the current stock of PS3s across the board and then introduce the PS3 Slim at the 'regular' price. It's a strategy that Sony has employed before.

Either way, this Holiday season is shaping up to be a belter. Less games, more quality, and potentially comparable prices for the main three.

It's good to be a gangster, but right now it's GREAT to be a gamer.

I've heard lots of chatter from forums that Sony will do this. A $299 40 gig phat unit and a $399 120 slim. Makes sense since you'll get the early adapters at full price. Sony always makes one smart move and two dumb moves at the same time so I wouldn't put this one past them.

I don't think the 360 will be lowered in price, I think they will just put more value in the box like free first party games, free points, download codes... stuff like that that doesn't cost them money.

jpublic

08-06-2009, 08:07 PM

Wifi makes sense for the following reasons:

1) It's a stupidly obvious and cheap convenience feature. If you're going to remove wireless ethernet, you might as well lose wireless controllers.
2) Most people who have cable/dsl tend to have their router near their computer, which isn't near their TV. Are you going to tell those people they have to move their router around or that they have to run a cable across their house? Maybe you or I find that easy, but to most others that's bloody hindering awkward. (Actually, for me it's a pain, too, because I don't have free ether ports on my router.)
3) As I said before, it's a convenience feature that's in the Wii, and something that they can hold over MS. Do you really see it being a great idea to drop that?
4) Wifi is *huge* in Japan - pissing off your primary market (as Sony sees it) is a bad idea.

Talanvor

08-06-2009, 08:23 PM

Just to be clear, the controllers use bluetooth, not 802.11, so losing wifi would not affect the controllers.

From what I remember, it was Circuit City that screwed up and got their ad leaked really early showing a price cut for the PS3. It wasn't Sony themselves that disclosed it, they were pretty upset about it.

And I really wish Sony would clarify the whole Slim/BC rumor, they don't even have to address the price cut. I have a friend that REALLY wants a PS3, but only if he can get one with BC. Of course, for some goddamn reason, I can't get it into his head that finding a new PS3 with BC would be like winning the lottery at this point. Oi.

Vincent

08-06-2009, 09:41 PM

See, I said it was downstairs with the computer, never said it was NEAR it ;)

In my setup, I couldn't put my router near the TV. The Cable Modem has two options...either down in the basement by the furnace (where they installed the whole setup for my house) or in the original room where it was upstairs. Either way, I've got no choice but to run a 50 ft Ethernet cord from the router to the computer (as it is now) or to the systems. And having 50ft of cable run through your house is annoying, especially since there's no way to properly 'hide it' now that we moved the TV.

I'd love to be able to run it wired, but right now it's a no-go.

I'm in a similar situation, I would be loving screwed without wireless. That being said why complain about features on a hardware.... Some people must just love wires.

jpublic

08-06-2009, 10:43 PM

Just to be clear, the controllers use bluetooth, not 802.11, so losing wifi would not affect the controllers.

The cost for a Bluetooth adapter is *more* than an 802.11 adapter. Higher licensing costs. That's why I brought it up. If you're going to remove a wireless convenience feature, why wouldn't you remove the more expensive one?

OldJadedGamer

08-07-2009, 12:10 AM

4) Wifi is *huge* in Japan - pissing off your primary market (as Sony sees it) is a bad idea.

Were you aware that for the first year of the PS3's life in Japan that the 20 gig was the best selling unit that Sony sold and after a year on sale, it was finally discontinued to make way for the cheaper 40 gig unit.

And the 20 gig unit never had wifi.

The cost for a Bluetooth adapter is *more* than an 802.11 adapter. Higher licensing costs. That's why I brought it up. If you're going to remove a wireless convenience feature, why wouldn't you remove the more expensive one?

I think this is a great idea. I hate Bluetooth on my PS3. Well, I hate that I cannot sync two remotes with it and that no universal remote I can find works with my PS3. If they just had RF instead it wouldn't make any difference to the end user. The 360/Wii/Gamecube controllers work perfectly fine without bluetooth.

edit: the more I think about it... you are totally right. They really should remove Bluetooth. I never thought about how useless it is for gaming and the system could perform the exact same without it using cheaper RF technology. I wouldn't doubt that the slim leaves this non-gaming feature out.

Yeti2005

08-07-2009, 06:35 AM

edit: the more I think about it... you are totally right. They really should remove Bluetooth. I never thought about how useless it is for gaming and the system could perform the exact same without it using cheaper RF technology. I wouldn't doubt that the slim leaves this non-gaming feature out.

The bluetooth is also used for headset communication so you really can't yank that feature. Although it seems such a small percentage ACTUALLY USE their mic (come on people, talk it up in Battlefield, the game is all about team work!) maybe it wouldn't matter ;)

RandoM51

08-07-2009, 06:35 AM

The cost for a Bluetooth adapter is *more* than an 802.11 adapter. Higher licensing costs. That's why I brought it up. If you're going to remove a wireless convenience feature, why wouldn't you remove the more expensive one?

Wrong, at least in the case of Sony. Sony is a member of the Bluetooth SIG already and you do not pay a fee for each product as a member. On top of that, you don't have to license bluetooth technology, you only have to join the SIG if you intend to use the bluetooth logo on your products.

If your plan is to support wireless controllers, remotes, headsets, and other peripherals, Bluetooth is a great choice, and on top of that it is an open standard so anybody can make peripheral devices for your console without having to jump through hoops.

I doubt anybody on this forum knows what Sony's cost is for bluetooth or wifi, much less is in a position to prove that one is more expensive for Sony than the other.

Were you aware that for the first year of the PS3's life in Japan that the 20 gig was the best selling unit that Sony sold and after a year on sale, it was finally discontinued to make way for the cheaper 40 gig unit.

And the 20 gig unit never had wifi.

A. It was significantly cheaper.
B. Japan typically has smaller dwellings due to population density, making it less likely somebody is going to have to run an ethernet cable through three or four rooms if they don't have WiFi.
C. The Japanese are tech-savvy. They're not the type to pay $100 for WiFi when they can pick up a USB/WiFi bridge for chump change on their way home from work/school.

In short, using the popularity of the 20GB unit in Japan as a good reason to drop WiFi from a PS3 unit that will sell worldwide is a really weak argument. :)

Gorvi

08-07-2009, 06:36 AM

Yeah, who the hell would want to use the controllers they already own, or their headsets. That makes perfect sense.......

Telefrog

08-07-2009, 06:54 AM

I really think the "price drop" is just going to be a clearance sale to get rid of the fatty units and introduce the Slim at the current price. It's worked before with other products.

RandoM51

08-07-2009, 07:00 AM

We'll know one way or the other by the end of August.

OldJadedGamer

08-07-2009, 10:25 AM

Yeah, who the hell would want to use the controllers they already own, or their headsets. That makes perfect sense.......

I'm talking about the slim. Why would it matter if you can't use your current controllers on a new system. They already work on your current unit. This isn't the first time this would happen. You know that you can't use some peripherals like the multi-tap that were made for the PS2 phat on the slim PS2 and don't even get me started on the harddrive... you of all people should know about that.

The bluetooth is also used for headset communication so you really can't yank that feature. Although it seems such a small percentage ACTUALLY USE their mic (come on people, talk it up in Battlefield, the game is all about team work!) maybe it wouldn't matter ;)

But it's not the ONLY way to get a headset working... you can use any USB headset and IMO those work better then bluetooth ones.

A. It was significantly cheaper.
B. Japan typically has smaller dwellings due to population density, making it less likely somebody is going to have to run an ethernet cable through three or four rooms if they don't have WiFi.
C. The Japanese are tech-savvy. They're not the type to pay $100 for WiFi when they can pick up a USB/WiFi bridge for chump change on their way home from work/school.

In short, using the popularity of the 20GB unit in Japan as a good reason to drop WiFi from a PS3 unit that will sell worldwide is a really weak argument. :)

That's all fine and dandy to quote my post and not the post I was talking about which was this one. Fact is, the 20 gig was the best selling unit there for over a year and didn't have wifi. It's not like sales for the system made a huge jump after wifi was included in the system. Sales stayed the same. Again, it's a redundant feature to have on the system and is not a *requirement* for gaming.

4) Wifi is *huge* in Japan - pissing off your primary market (as Sony sees it) is a bad idea.

Gorvi

08-07-2009, 11:39 AM

OldJadedGamer

08-07-2009, 11:49 AM

It would be a nightmare to try to sell two different PS3 controllers, one that's Bluetooth for the 23+ million PS3 owners out there, and one that's something else for the new PS3s.

And while WiFi may not be a requirement for gaming, it is incredibly nice to have. Hell, it's the standard in 4/5 consoles out there right now.

Not really, like I said they've done it before. Many items they sell for the phat units don't work on the slim models. This goes back to both PS1 and PS2. Why would it be any different for the PS3?

It's nice to have but not required. If you want it... great. You're not blocked from adding it to the system. And when you say 4/5 consoles have wifi... while this is true, you leave out the part where 3/5 consoles have no other way to get online without wifi. It's the only option on those machines. That's why I said it's redundant on the PS3 since you have another way to connect it. If you don't have wifi in your house... you simply cannot connect these units while you can with 2/5 systems.

I'm just thinking of removing anything that isn't required for gaming and wifi and bluetooth fall under this umbrella right? The firewire port as nice to have on the PS2 but it was removed... the card readers were nice to have on the PS3 but they were removed.

jpublic

08-07-2009, 02:48 PM

You have some really valid points, OJG, I just don't see them doing it. Wifi support is almost considered a basic function these days.

We'll see, I guess.

Gorvi

08-07-2009, 02:51 PM

There's a huge difference between some accessories that the majority of people don't own and controllers that every single console owner owns and uses, in most cases multiple controllers.

OldJadedGamer

08-07-2009, 03:50 PM

There's a huge difference between some accessories that the majority of people don't own and controllers that every single console owner owns and uses, in most cases multiple controllers.

Gorvi... you are missing what this thread is about. That is a new discounted/slim model of the Playstation. You seem stuck in this mentality that current owners will be screwed over and they won't. Their controllers will still work on their current system. If you "own and use" these controllers then you already have a PS3 and I'm not talking about that person. I'm talking about new users.

RandoM51

08-07-2009, 04:08 PM

People who still want everything unified in their Harmony remote can buy the adapter. Does it suck to spend even more money on your 1-remote solution? Sure it does. More likely to make your wish come true than waiting for Sony to make a PS3 with IR instead of Bluetooth, though.

Alea iacta est.

Telefrog

08-07-2009, 04:30 PM

Gorvi... you are missing what this thread is about. That is a new discounted/slim model of the Playstation. You seem stuck in this mentality that current owners will be screwed over and they won't. Their controllers will still work on their current system. If you "own and use" these controllers then you already have a PS3 and I'm not talking about that person. I'm talking about new users.

Sure, but let's say Sony drops Bluetooth from the PS3 Slim. That means Sony must now keep another sku of controller accessory on the market, right? After all, those fatty PS3 owners may want to buy another controller for their system - the system that uses Bluetooth to connect.

OldJadedGamer

08-07-2009, 05:10 PM

Sure, but let's say Sony drops Bluetooth from the PS3 Slim. That means Sony must now keep another sku of controller accessory on the market, right? After all, those fatty PS3 owners may want to buy another controller for their system - the system that uses Bluetooth to connect.

And like I already stated, Sony has been doing this for over a decade with their other two slim models. Why would it be a big deal now? Or they could sell a little usb adapter to make all new controllers work with the older systems.

It's not impossible nor is it a new thing that Sony has never done in the past.

People who still want everything unified in their Harmony remote can buy the adapter. Does it suck to spend even more money on your 1-remote solution? Sure it does. More likely to make your wish come true than waiting for Sony to make a PS3 with IR instead of Bluetooth, though.

Alea iacta est.

It's not just that but I can't even use two different remotes for my system. It's impossible to sync two official remotes to one PS3 only because it uses bluetooth. Every system in the world... ever I can use multiple remotes on but not the PS3 and bluetooth is to blame.

Again, like wifi it's a worthless feature that is not required for gaming and if it was removed wouldn't affect anyones gaming at all. These are "nice to have" things by far required. If they want to cut the fat and get the price down, it makes since to remove these two things. I personally wouldn't miss either of them.

Gorvi

08-08-2009, 02:06 AM

And like I already stated, Sony has been doing this for over a decade with their other two slim models. Why would it be a big deal now? Or they could sell a little usb adapter to make all new controllers work with the older systems.

It's not impossible nor is it a new thing that Sony has never done in the past.
Except no, they haven't. Are you having that much trouble distinguishing between an add on HDD or multitap and the damn controller for the console?

OldJadedGamer

08-08-2009, 12:11 PM

Except no, they haven't. Are you having that much trouble distinguishing between an add on HDD or multitap and the damn controller for the console?

Are you having that much trouble seeing Sony as a huge corporation that makes thousands of different products so selling two different controllers isn't a big deal? You act like all of a sudden if they removed bluetooth from the slim model that your current model PS3 will explode and your life will be in shambles.

Your current model PS3 would be just fine. I'm only speculating on what features that are useless for gaming that they could remove in a slim model.

Gorvi

08-08-2009, 12:44 PM

Are you having that much trouble seeing Sony as a huge corporation that makes thousands of different products so selling two different controllers isn't a big deal? You act like all of a sudden if they removed bluetooth from the slim model that your current model PS3 will explode and your life will be in shambles.

Your current model PS3 would be just fine. I'm only speculating on what features that are useless for gaming that they could remove in a slim model.
My current PS3 isn't the issue, the problem is having 2 have two different controllers out there on the market for sale, one that's BlueTooth for the old PS3s, one that's not for the newer PS3s. It would be an incredibly stupid decision. Didn't Random point out earlier that their costs for BT should be next to nothing, if not nothing?

OldJadedGamer

08-08-2009, 01:08 PM

My current PS3 isn't the issue, the problem is having 2 have two different controllers out there on the market for sale, one that's BlueTooth for the old PS3s, one that's not for the newer PS3s. It would be an incredibly stupid decision. Didn't Random point out earlier that their costs for BT should be next to nothing, if not nothing?

I'm failing to see how two controllers on the market affects you. If your current controller broke, you'd still be able to get a new one.

Random said this:

I doubt anybody on this forum knows what Sony's cost is for bluetooth

And I agree. No one on this forum knows what it costs them to put it in the system. Unless you work for Sony no one knows for sure and everything else is speculation.

Gorvi

08-08-2009, 01:58 PM

I'm failing to see how two controllers on the market affects you. If your current controller broke, you'd still be able to get a new one.
It doesn't effect me one bit, I'm a smart enough shopper that I would be able to tell the difference. Problem is, that's not something you want to assume. You sell a controller it had better work with everything. It's something no company would want to try to market. Hoping that the people at the point of sale are going to ask which version of a console the person owns to make sure the customer is buying the right controller is foolish.

RandoM51

08-08-2009, 03:00 PM

Ban bet! ban bet!

WhyThree

08-08-2009, 03:08 PM

Frankly I doubt Sony will drop Bluetooth support. There's no reason to switch standards at this point. ZigBee and ANT (the other likely open standards) are too low-bandwidth. RF could work, that's what Xbox 360 uses, but a proprietary standard adds a lot of hoops for development. Wii uses Bluetooth as well. Considering how it would break every single current accessory for PS3, including guitars and whatever else, it would never fly to change thins now.

OldJadedGamer

08-08-2009, 03:25 PM

I don't care about either feature. Like I've said, I was just looking at worthless features in the machine that had no gaming function that could be removed on a stripped down version.

RandoM51

08-08-2009, 03:42 PM

OldJadedGamer

08-08-2009, 04:21 PM

Bluetooth is hardly worthless and hardly has no gaming function. Controllers and headsets have to have some sort of connection. You're only calling it worthless and without function because you'd prefer they had picked something besides bluetooth. You don't even have the data to make a case that it is more expensive than any other wireless solution that covers all the bases.

Maybe you should start a thread/petition to get the console manufacturers to go back to entirely hardwired peripherals. Let us know how many signatures you get.

It's worthless because it's not required. Had Sony picked some other standard for their wireless controllers, you wouldn't have any clue. It would all work the same internally. That's why I'm saying it's worthless. Tell me right now how the PS3 NEEDS Bluetooth and can't function without it. Do the games look different or play differently with bluetooth? If Bluetooth wasn't included all that would happen is that you would just use a different controller... that is all and even that is easily solved.

You cannot say that gaming on the PS3 REQUIRES bluetooth hence... it's a worthless feature for gaming. The Blu-ray drive is a requirement since the games will not run without it there. It's not rocket science. You're reading too far into my comments looking for something that isn't there.

Troggles

08-08-2009, 04:28 PM

I don't care about either feature. Like I've said, I was just looking at worthless features in the machine that had no gaming function that could be removed on a stripped down version.

Just because YOU don't care doesn't make it worthless. If they ditch Bluetooth they'd just have to use some other form of wireless communication which, believe it or not, will cost money. It's not like there's a free alternative to wireless communication.

Second of all, no, wi-fi isn't a necessary "gaming" feature unless you play games online, a few of which are online only. Not many households keep their router in their living room. Most I know keep it in their main computer room. For these people, wi-fi is necessary for gaming, otherwise they have to run tons of ethernet cable.

Troggles

08-08-2009, 04:30 PM

It's worthless because it's not required. Had Sony picked some other standard for their wireless controllers, you wouldn't have any clue. It would all work the same internally. That's why I'm saying it's worthless. Tell me right now how the PS3 NEEDS Bluetooth and can't function without it. Do the games look different or play differently with bluetooth? If Bluetooth wasn't included all that would happen is that you would just use a different controller... that is all and even that is easily solved.

Ok, so some form of wireless communication is necessary for the PS3. You're right, it didn't have to be Bluetooth, but Sony decided to be not completely retarded and use a proven and tested standard that also allows users to use their headsets for voice communication.

OldJadedGamer

08-08-2009, 04:35 PM

Second of all, no, wi-fi isn't a necessary "gaming" feature unless you play games online, a few of which are online only. Not many households keep their router in their living room. Most I know keep it in their main computer room. For these people, wi-fi is necessary for gaming, otherwise they have to run tons of ethernet cable.

It's not even necessary if you play online because the unit ships with an ethernet port where you can easily add a wireless bridge if you want that feature. The only way wifi would be *required* is if there wasn't already an ethernet port back there. My friend added wireless to a PS3 20 gig unit with no problems at all. The PS3 that shipped with no wifi.

Ok, so some form of wireless communication is necessary for the PS3. You're right, it didn't have to be Bluetooth, but Sony decided to be not completely retarded and use a proven and tested standard that also allows users to use their headsets for voice communication.

Was it proven and tested though? Remember the first gen PS3 controllers had dropout issues related to Bluetooth, it took over 2 years for Sony to offer their own Bluetooth headset, and you cannot sync 2 official remotes to the system at once.

Troggles

08-08-2009, 04:36 PM

It's not even necessary if you play online because the unit ships with an ethernet port where you can easily add a wireless bridge if you want that feature. The only way wifi would be *required* is if there wasn't already an ethernet port back there. My friend added wireless to a PS3 20 gig unit with no problems at all. The PS3 that shipped with no wifi.

And since wifi is so cheap and easy to use, why not just include it?

OldJadedGamer

08-08-2009, 04:48 PM

And since wifi is so cheap and easy to use, why not just include it?

It can't be that cheap considering that Sony took it out of the 20 gig unit to bring down some of the cost of the unit. Only the hardware manufacturer knows how much it cost.

jpublic

08-08-2009, 05:51 PM

OldJadedGamer

08-08-2009, 06:05 PM

By your same token, why don't they remove the ether port and just leave Wifi? That ether port is redundant after all, less useful than the Wifi card, and probably costs the same (pennies a system) to include.

Because all cable/DSL modems sold are Ethernet wired by default. You could remove it though and make it only wireless. Look at the most popular and best selling console in the world right now and it only has wireless and no ethernet... hasn't hurt sales a single bit has it?

And again, you have no clue how much it costs. The Wii doesn't have ethernet on there and the 20gig PS3 didn't have wifi so OBVIOUSLY there is a cost savings to the hardware maker to remove them.

RandoM51

08-08-2009, 06:20 PM

OldJadedGamer is right, if it weren't for the cost of Wi-Fi Nintendo and Sony would just give the DS and PSP away.

Troggles

08-08-2009, 06:21 PM

OldJadedGamer is right, if it weren't for the cost of Wi-Fi Nintendo and Sony would just give the DS and PSP away.

No, by his logic the DS and PSP should have ethernet ports instead of wifi.

RandoM51

08-08-2009, 06:25 PM

I still think he is right, WiFi is really expensive to add to a console. It has to be true, after all Microsoft charges $99 to do it.

Troggles

08-08-2009, 06:28 PM

I still think he is right, WiFi is really expensive to add to a console. It has to be true, after all Microsoft charges $99 to do it.

Don't forget they're the only ones to accurately charge for harddrives. All those HDD manufactures have been practically giving away gigabytes for years!

RandoM51

08-08-2009, 06:32 PM

Don't forget they're the only ones to accurately charge for harddrives. All those HDD manufactures have been practically giving away gigabytes for years!

You know, I don't think we're being fair. After all, the price on the HD-DVD drive has come way, way down since it was released. We should at least be giving them credit for that.

OldJadedGamer

08-08-2009, 06:48 PM

No, by his logic the DS and PSP should have ethernet ports instead of wifi.

Ahh, and here come the handhelds.

Don't forget they're the only ones to accurately charge for harddrives. All those HDD manufactures have been practically giving away gigabytes for years!

MS isn't the only one that over charges for memory. Don't forget that Sony still charges $25 bucks for 8megs of memory... it must be magic memory to cost so much.

I still think he is right, WiFi is really expensive to add to a console. It has to be true, after all Microsoft charges $99 to do it.

Does this mean that HDMI cables are $80 dollars since that's what Sony charges for the PS3 HDMI cables?

Fact remains that wifi was enough of a cost that Sony removed it from the 20 gig to bring down the price of the unit. Period.

RandoM51

08-08-2009, 06:52 PM

Fact remains that wifi was enough of a cost that Sony removed it from the 20 gig to bring down the price of the unit. Period.

Did they? I must have missed the press release explaining that.

OldJadedGamer

08-08-2009, 06:58 PM

Did they? I must have missed the press release explaining that.

Yes... they issued a press release to say that removing features from the machine lowered the price of the unit .................................................

Or was this post a joke cause I can't tell if you are serious or just dumb.

Suave Peanut

08-08-2009, 07:06 PM

Ah, my favorite part of the Internet: grown men fighting over things that don't matter.

RandoM51

08-08-2009, 07:08 PM

MagGnome

08-08-2009, 07:16 PM

By your same token, why don't they remove the ether port and just leave Wifi? That ether port is redundant after all, less useful than the Wifi card, and probably costs the same (pennies a system) to include.

While we are at it, why don't they just ditch the shiny outer shell and wrap the whole thing in scrap metal instead? The pretty casing isn't NEEDED for gaming either!

Also, the component and HDMI connectors. Those are redundant.

OldJadedGamer

08-08-2009, 07:35 PM

Microsoft only supports 3 wireless bridges other than their own... three wireless bridges that are no longer in production as far as I can tell. (http://support.xbox.com/support/en/us/nxe/xboxlive/getconnected/compatiblenetworkequipment/compatiblenetworkingequipment.aspx)

You are super reaching right now. All hardware makers say this stupid shit. Sony's and Nintendo's manuals (go take a read) says your warranty is voided if you connect any unlicensed peripheral to the machine. Got that cool third party controller you like to use? Guess what, even though it works fine... you just blew your warranty!!! Come on...

While we are at it, why don't they just ditch the shiny outer shell and wrap the whole thing in scrap metal instead? The pretty casing isn't NEEDED for gaming either!

Also, the component and HDMI connectors. Those are redundant.

Funny you say that cause the rumor is that the slim PS3 won't have the PS3 shiny outer shell and will be more of a matte. And it's not needed at all. That coating collects sooooooooooooooooo much dust it's stupid.

HDMI is only needed because of Sony's movie format but you're right... since they don't make TV's that are HDMI only, removing it should only hurt the movie playing part to it. Remember, the original design of the PS3 had 2 HDMI ports and one was removed because it wasn't needed then the PS3 20 gig wasn't going to have HDMI at all when it was first shown and was only added in later because the Blu-ray movie format needed it.

The component plug is the same as the regular video and s-video so yes... that is a requirement to have or how else would it get on your screen.

Again...... this entire time I'm thinking of taking out whatever is not needed except for gaming and getting a barebones slim model.

EternalGamer

08-08-2009, 08:07 PM

Kelegacy

08-08-2009, 08:30 PM

MS is really good at hiding cost and that has played to their advantage so I think Sony should follow suite. The PS3 Slim should:

1) Only come with A/V Cables
2) Only come with Wifi (Eithernet sold separately like the Wii) +$40
3) Lock out BluRay unless you by the remote (a la the Xbox DVD dongle) +$50
4) Eliminate the glossy finish
5) Eliminate the card readers (sell a USB card reader separately) +$20
6) Only come with a 40GB harddrive (put your OWN 120 GB Sony brand HDD out at retail). +$100 for 120GB

There is a very good chance they would still get $300+ with the extras people buy on the side, but it has the APPEARANCE of being cheaper and that's what is important. This is what both the 360 (with it's extravagant HDDs, online fees and controller charge cables) and the Wii (with its now $80 controller--$40 Wiimote + $20 Nunchuck + $20 Wii Motion Plus) have demonstrated. Sony should lower the price of the base unit and gouge the fuck out of people with peripherals. The PS3 will suddenly be perceived as a good value.
I like some good ol' fashioned idiot gouging. Gouge the fuckers. They deserve it. It's like financial Darwinism.

I remember when my 360 Pro was cheaper than a friend's Core because of the amount he spent on peripherals.

OldJadedGamer

08-08-2009, 08:54 PM

MS is really good at hiding cost and that has played to their advantage so I think Sony should follow suite. The PS3 Slim should:

1) Only come with A/V Cables
2) Only come with Wifi (Eithernet sold separately like the Wii) +$40
3) Lock out BluRay unless you by the remote (a la the Xbox DVD dongle) +$50
4) Eliminate the glossy finish
5) Eliminate the card readers (sell a USB card reader separately) +$20
6) Only come with a 40GB harddrive (put your OWN 120 GB Sony brand HDD out at retail). +$100 for 120GB

There is a very good chance they would still get $300+ with the extras people buy on the side, but it has the APPEARANCE of being cheaper and that's what is important. This is what both the 360 (with it's extravagant HDDs, online fees and controller charge cables) and the Wii (with its now $80 controller--$40 Wiimote + $20 Nunchuck + $20 Wii Motion Plus) have demonstrated. Sony should lower the price of the base unit and gouge the fuck out of people with peripherals. The PS3 will suddenly be perceived as a good value.

Finally, an intelligent post in here! This is perfect and what they need to do. The card readers by the way are long gone so that's not any savings there either. I'm up in the air if charging for the Blu-ray would be a good idea but it could be. By the time the user got home and figured it out, they would be stuck with the machine and buy it anyway so it could work. But with players only going for $99 bucks now... $50 may be too much. $30 may be a better price for that. Not only that it would also help them move way more official remotes since they have to make a good deal of profit on them.

Again, great post!

jpublic

08-08-2009, 11:20 PM

EternalGamer

08-09-2009, 07:41 AM

Great post EG. My only argument is I doubt Sony will ever charge extra for BluRay. after all, that's been one of their major (and probably most effective) selling points on the PS3.

Of the people (not on this site) whom I know who got a PS3, most got it for the BluRay first.

True, but I doubt making the Bluray a $50 extra option on the lower priced model would prevent new users from considering the system. If anything it would only get new consumers to be drawn into considering the unit at the lower price point and then end up buying the more expensive model. People are funny that way. The lower price will draw them to buy it, but once they find out the additional charges, they likely already have their mind made up to purchase and then it is merely whether they buy the base unit or the more expensive model.

Mike Kelehan

08-09-2009, 08:28 AM

3) Lock out BluRay unless you by the remote (a la the Xbox DVD dongle) +$50

The thing is, that $40 for the Xbox DVD remote went to the DVD consortium, who took a chunk out of the sales of every DVD playing device, so MS would have no choice but to charge more (or take a hit) on every system sold otherwise. Sony, on the other hand, owns Blu-ray. Including Blu-ray video functionality doesn't cost them a dime, since the drive's already in there. Charging an extra fee would only lessen the market penetration of their own format. This industry is still razor and razor blades. Get the players in to homes any way you can, and make money on software, be it games or movies.

I have a PS3, and use it as an upscaling DVD player more than anything else. If I had to pay $50 to make it play Blu-rays, I wouldn't, but since it does, I've purchased a few Blu-rays. That's money in Sony's pocket.

EternalGamer

08-09-2009, 08:42 PM

The thing is, that $40 for the Xbox DVD remote went to the DVD consortium, who took a chunk out of the sales of every DVD playing device, so MS would have no choice but to charge more (or take a hit) on every system sold otherwise. Sony, on the other hand, owns Blu-ray. Including Blu-ray video functionality doesn't cost them a dime, since the drive's already in there. Charging an extra fee would only lessen the market penetration of their own format. This industry is still razor and razor blades. Get the players in to homes any way you can, and make money on software, be it games or movies.

I have a PS3, and use it as an upscaling DVD player more than anything else. If I had to pay $50 to make it play Blu-rays, I wouldn't, but since it does, I've purchased a few Blu-rays. That's money in Sony's pocket.

MS could have taken that hit since Sony clearly did so on the PS2. Regardless of the reason, I think most people would buy the remote to unlock the BluRay feature even if they never used it. People like having features available to them. I'm willing to bet that if Sony had the remote lock out when you bought yours you would have eventually purchased the remote. I'm a cheapskate, but I probably would have too. It's what we have been programmed by our culture to do.

jpublic

08-09-2009, 11:26 PM

Sony didn't on the PS2. They were part of the consortium, and members didn't pay.

Yeti2005

08-10-2009, 11:14 AM

Here's more fuel to the price cut rumor. Some French retailer is confirming the PS3 slim with a 100 euro price cut and it will be announced at Gamecon (a week from Tuesday).

Here's the link to Joystiq (http://www.joystiq.com/2009/08/10/french-retailer-claims-ps3-slim-is-real-will-be-100-cheaper/).

Yeti2005

08-14-2009, 08:58 AM

Gorvi

08-14-2009, 09:48 AM

Wow this thread died off. All the buzz seems to be about the 360 elite price drop.

Anyway Hastings has an upcoming ad (http://www.joystiq.com/2009/08/14/hastings-ad-notes-100-price-drop-on-existing-non-slim-ps3/) for the $499 PS3 dropped down to $399.
I think we're all pretty much expecting it now. If there isn't a PS3 Slim announced next Tuesday for $299 I'd be surprised. It's only fun speculating about something that's a pretty sure thing for so long. ;)

OldJadedGamer

08-14-2009, 12:02 PM

I think we're all pretty much expecting it now. If there isn't a PS3 Slim announced next Tuesday for $299 I'd be surprised. It's only fun speculating about something that's a pretty sure thing for so long. ;)

I wouldn't be surprised though if they dropped the current 80 to $299 and then sold the slim for $399.

Gorvi

08-14-2009, 12:13 PM

I wouldn't be surprised though if they dropped the current 80 to $299 and then sold the slim for $399.
If they did that it would more than likely be like they did 2 years ago: do that to clear stock then drop the Slim down to that price.

OldJadedGamer

08-14-2009, 12:18 PM

If they did that it would more than likely be like they did 2 years ago: do that to clear stock then drop the Slim down to that price.

Anything can happen with this company lately. Just when you think Sony is making one step forward, they make two steps back. If they don't do it at the convention next week then it's TGS for sure.

Gorvi

08-14-2009, 12:19 PM

Anything can happen with this company lately. Just when you think Sony is making one step forward, they make two steps back. If they don't do it at the convention next week then it's TGS for sure.
When did they take two steps back again lately? The only bad thing I can think of that they've done lately is the PSP Go!'s price, and that, more likely than not, is the way it had to be priced to give retail a decent margin on it so that they'd actually sell it.

rein

08-14-2009, 12:23 PM

Anything can happen with this company lately. Just when you think Sony is making one step forward, they make two steps back. If they don't do it at the convention next week then it's TGS for sure.What backward steps have they taken recently? The srewed up launch and removing BC was a step back but is there anything more recent?

OldJadedGamer

08-14-2009, 12:26 PM

What backward steps have they taken recently? The srewed up launch and removing BC was a step back but is there anything more recent?

Not with the PS3, only because they have been so stagnant lately and haven't done anything with the machine.

OldJadedGamer

08-14-2009, 12:27 PM

When did they take two steps back again lately? The only bad thing I can think of that they've done lately is the PSP Go!'s price, and that, more likely than not, is the way it had to be priced to give retail a decent margin on it so that they'd actually sell it.

Yeah... the PSPGo. They introduce a new cool model but..........removed features while upping the price.

Gorvi

08-14-2009, 12:34 PM

Not with the PS3, only because they have been so stagnant lately and haven't done anything with the machine.
They do firmware updates often, people bitch. They don't do them for a bit, they're stagnant......
Yeah... the PSPGo. They introduce a new cool model but..........removed features while upping the price.
Remove one feature (UMD), add a few more (built in storage and Bluetooth, smaller form factor). Again, that price is more than likely there (like the inflated price of iPods) so that the retailer gets a decent margin, as the unit essentially is the only money they'll potentially see from a customer as the software is digital. I don't like it, but then again, I'm not getting a Go! either.

Troggles

08-14-2009, 12:37 PM

I really think the Go! is going after the gadget crowd more than the gamer crowd. It would be a nice mp3 player with great gaming support. Sony has been successful in making devices that are great for entering that market (PS2 - DVDs, PS3 - Blu-ray).

OldJadedGamer

08-14-2009, 12:40 PM

They do firmware updates often, people bitch. They don't do them for a bit, they're stagnant......

Remove one feature (UMD), add a few more (built in storage and Bluetooth, smaller form factor). Again, that price is more than likely there (like the inflated price of iPods) so that the retailer gets a decent margin, as the unit essentially is the only money they'll potentially see from a customer as the software is digital. I don't like it, but then again, I'm not getting a Go! either.

I'm not talking about firmware.

We can make excuses for the PSP all day but still doesn't change the fact that they took one step forward by making a new slim model then two steps back by making it so you couldn't play any current PSP game on store shelves and then jacking up the price $80 past the current model.

When have we heard good Sony news about hardware that didn't have a "gotcha" attached to it?

Gorvi

08-14-2009, 12:47 PM

I'm not talking about firmware.
So what are you talking about? Are they supposed to be constantly refreshing the hardware? If that's what you want, you should have next week to look forward to.
We can make excuses for the PSP all day but still doesn't change the fact that they took one step forward by making a new slim model then two steps back by making it so you couldn't play any current PSP game on store shelves and then jacking up the price $80 past the current model.
No, you think they took one step forward and two steps back, I'm simply apathetic. I'm not a fan of the DD only method, so the Go! was never even an option for me, as the only way I'd get it is if I could just rip all my games to it. Since can do that now with my current PSP (I never bother, but I could), I really have no interest in it.

All that aside, it does appeal to a certain market. The only thing wrong with the Go! is it's price, but if you understand the way retail works you'd see that it's a necessary thing. It sucks, yes, but it's not like they could have expected retailers to sell the Go! with little to no margin.
When have we heard good Sony news about hardware that didn't have a "gotcha" attached to it?
Even if you want to count the Go!, the PSP 2000 and 3000 went pretty smooth. There was the overblown thing with the 3000 screen, but that was just that, overblown. The Go! uses the same screen and we've heard zero complaints.

Yeti2005

08-14-2009, 12:49 PM

fitbabits

08-14-2009, 09:01 PM

Price cut 'rumor' gaining in momentum so much it's now a given. That means the console landscape will look like...

Wii - $249 entry price
PS3 - $299 entry price
Xbox 360 - $199 entry price

The figures may have changed, but that's about it - the order is still the same. I applaud Sony dropping the price (finally). I think, though, that Microsoft could (should?) have dropped the price of the Xbox 360 arcade to $180 as well as dropping the Elite by $100 to further cement their place as the cheapest 'next generation' console available today.

In other news, I bought a fantastic framed mirror for my apartment. Cost was $21.77 after tax for a beautiful 36 x 30 incher, with a great wooden frame.

rein

08-14-2009, 09:21 PM

The PSP Go! also has a smaller screen. Not a huge deal but odd.

I'd consider Home a step backward. Those resources could have been used for better XMB functionality like cross game voice chat, parties, invites, etc.

Edit: The more I think about it the more I think Sony really hasn't made any major f*ck ups recently. They're just not making huge "wow" moves forward.

All of this talk about Home lately and I logged in for a few minutes this evening. That few minutes turned into a couple of hours collecting free tees and exploring a few spaces recently added. While I can't say I will be logging into Home every day it is far from a wasted resource and a step backwards. There is a lot of promo information available for anyone that does log into it.

RandoM51

08-14-2009, 09:36 PM

Anything can happen with this company lately. Just when you think Sony is making one step forward, they make two steps back.

2006 called, they want your opinion back.

Xerxes

08-14-2009, 09:40 PM

Take those savings and put BC back. :p

Xerxes

08-14-2009, 09:43 PM

rein

08-14-2009, 10:01 PM

Didn't it lose the Memory stick slot?Yes, but gained a Memory Stick Micro (M2) slot.

Xerxes

08-14-2009, 10:30 PM

Yes, but gained a Memory Stick Micro (M2) slot.

Yeah.... that's ass. :p

rein

08-14-2009, 11:24 PM

Yeah.... that's ass. :pI agree with that statement. :)

I was thinking if I get a GO and have to buy an M2 memory stick maybe I would be able to use it on the next Sony console but then I realized they will probably have a different format by then. :(

OldJadedGamer

08-15-2009, 03:17 AM

2006 called, they want your opinion back.

My bad... I forgot that the PSP Go was announced back in 2006.............

Gorvi

08-15-2009, 05:51 AM

My bad... I forgot that the PSP Go was announced back in 2006.............
You also forgot that it's not a step backwards, but that can be forgiven.

OldJadedGamer

08-15-2009, 01:35 PM

You also forgot that it's not a step backwards, but that can be forgiven.

From the massive threads about the Go on many game forums around the internet... you are in the minority in your thinking. Not that how you feel is wrong, just that it's not the majority of opinion on the reaction to the unit right now.

Troggles

08-15-2009, 01:41 PM

From the massive threads about the Go on many game forums around the internet... you are in the minority in your thinking. Not that how you feel is wrong, just that it's not the majority of opinion on the reaction to the unit right now.

Just because it's the opinion of internet forum goers doesn't make it true that this is a step backwards. Ultimately, the only thing that will prove it's effects on the company will be the almighty dollar.

Gorvi

08-15-2009, 01:48 PM

From the massive threads about the Go on many game forums around the internet... you are in the minority in your thinking. Not that how you feel is wrong, just that it's not the majority of opinion on the reaction to the unit right now.
I think the only real point of contention is the price. Yes, it sucks that you can't use your current UMD games with it, but there really is no good option for that with a DD only device. Will I buy it? Hell no, but I can (grudgingly) understand that there is a market for such a device.

I'm even in the market for a new PSP, or I will be soon as the analog nub on my nearly 4 year old heavily used machine is starting to whack out on me, but I'll be replacing my 1000 with a 3000.

OldJadedGamer

08-15-2009, 01:52 PM

Just because it's the opinion of internet forum goers doesn't make it true that this is a step backwards. Ultimately, the only thing that will prove it's effects on the company will be the almighty dollar.

You really think this thing will light the sales charts on fire?

Troggles

08-15-2009, 01:56 PM

You really think this thing will light the sales charts on fire?

I honestly don't know. I'm not in the business of projecting console sales.

Purple Santa

08-15-2009, 05:15 PM

You really think this thing will light the sales charts on fire?

I think it's going to do better than most think it will. I think the price is going to dampen some of the enthusiasm to rush out and buy one but I think there is a considerable interest. I base that on the design of it and the lure of it being all DD. Scientific/factual based? Nope. Just my gut feeling. No one thought (around here) that the Nintendo DSi would do that well. We know how that turned out. I don't think it's going to do DSi sales, but I think it will give Sony a decent boost in PSP sales.

RandoM51

08-15-2009, 05:58 PM

Forums are hardly a good representation of the market when it comes to videogames. As far as the psp go is concerned, who do you think has more incentive to post, people who have a problem with the price or those who don't?

People worried about the pricing of the Go would do well to wait until the thing is actually released.

JayVe

08-15-2009, 06:03 PM

They don't have to cut anything at all to make a slimmer PS3.

I hope you are right. All the fans chomping at the bit for a price cut may be very unhappy to find out they have to give up something else.

Gorvi

08-16-2009, 06:51 AM

I hope you are right. All the fans chomping at the bit for a price cut may be very unhappy to find out they have to give up something else.
What exactly could they cut? WiFi is about it. Also:
http://www.cheapassgamer.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=5301&pictureid=8784

OldJadedGamer

08-16-2009, 12:13 PM

MagGnome

08-16-2009, 09:26 PM

Everyone said the same thing about $599 after E3 06 so we'll see what NPD has to say about the GO.

Are you high? Lots of people said that the $600 PS3 would be a big failure.

OldJadedGamer

08-16-2009, 11:40 PM

Are you high? Lots of people said that the $600 PS3 would be a big failure.

Not the defenders who said that gaming forums were overreacting and the public would eat it up once it came out.

Remember even Sony themselves were towing the "5 million sold with no games" line.

Banacek

08-17-2009, 12:14 AM

What exactly could they cut? WiFi is about it. Also:
http://www.cheapassgamer.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=5301&pictureid=8784

Looks like I know what I'm getting myself for Christmas :)

Purple Santa

08-17-2009, 04:30 AM

Looks like I know what I'm getting myself for Christmas :)

A poster?:D

2short

MagGnome

08-17-2009, 07:11 AM

Not the defenders who said that gaming forums were overreacting and the public would eat it up once it came out.

Remember even Sony themselves were towing the "5 million sold with no games" line.

You said "Everyone" though, not "some people". You were exaggerating, so I had to call you on it. :p

JayVe

08-17-2009, 07:38 AM

What exactly could they cut? WiFi is about it. Also:
http://www.cheapassgamer.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=5301&pictureid=8784

These look like fire-sale prices to clear existing PS3 Phat inventory.
I'd be shocked if the new slim was introduced with 160 gigs at $400.

Gorvi

08-17-2009, 07:43 AM

These look like fire-sale prices to clear existing PS3 Phat inventory.
I'd be shocked if the new slim was introduced with 160 gigs at $400.
Well, yeah, those are more than likely prices on the old units. A price drop at the very least seems to be a sure thing at this point, and I really hope, for the sake of sanity, that the slim launches at one price point with one HDD size and that's it. Let the users upgrade the HDD if they want (any idiot could do that on the PS3 now it's that simple) but get rid of the multi-SKU thing.

JayVe

08-17-2009, 07:54 AM

Well, yeah, those are more than likely prices on the old units. A price drop at the very least seems to be a sure thing at this point, and I really hope, for the sake of sanity, that the slim launches at one price point with one HDD size and that's it. Let the users upgrade the HDD if they want (any idiot could do that on the PS3 now it's that simple) but get rid of the multi-SKU thing.Like I said. I'd be shocked if the final slim version comes out with 160 gigs at $400. I foresee these sale prices not lasting when the slim model is finally revealed. It has happened before with earlier fire sales, and with the pricing of the PSP Go being higher than that of the slim.

Slim is nice as it will help Sony cut costs. Yet with the YEARS of losses they suffered due to the PS3, I am VERY SKEPTICAL that consumers will see the savings passed on to them.

Gorvi

08-17-2009, 07:57 AM

Like I said. I'd be shocked if the final slim version comes out with 160 gigs at $400. I foresee these sale prices not lasting when the slim model is finally revealed. It has happened before with earlier fire sales, and with the pricing of the PSP Go being higher than that of the slim.

Slim is nice as it will help Sony cut costs. Yet with the YEARS of losses they suffered due to the PS3, I am VERY SKEPTICAL that consumers will see the savings passed on to them.
I think you're wrong on that price, but we'll see tomorrow. I think the more likely course is that we'll see the Slim come out for $400 now (if it is that high) and then it'll drop down to $300 before Thanksgiving. It's what happened 2 years ago when the 40 GB (or was it 80GB?) was announced back at E3 that year.

Yeti2005

08-17-2009, 09:59 AM

I think you're wrong on that price, but we'll see tomorrow. I think the more likely course is that we'll see the Slim come out for $400 now (if it is that high) and then it'll drop down to $300 before Thanksgiving. It's what happened 2 years ago when the 40 GB (or was it 80GB?) was announced back at E3 that year.

I could easily see the Slim being $400 (a premium for the form factor) then dropping the price once the old inventory is out.

Banacek

08-17-2009, 10:43 AM

A poster?:D

2short

I hope they have enough :)

Gorvi

08-17-2009, 02:02 PM

A refurbished 40 GB PS3 is now $269 (http://www.sonystyle.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10551&storeId=10151&langId=-1&productId=8198552921665958071) on Sony's own online store. There just might be a price drop tomorrow. ;)

MalReynolds

08-17-2009, 02:37 PM

hopefully sony really needs a price drop now if they wanna stay in the race

Grifter

08-17-2009, 02:50 PM

If the price drops I will pick one up the first week of September... I really hope the price drops.

Wraith

08-18-2009, 07:42 AM

http://www.kmart.com/shc/s/p_10151_10104_018W014436760001P?adCell=W2

Sony PS3, SLIM PRESELL 2
Sold by Kmart
Item# 018W014436760001
Model# PS3 SLIM PRESELL 2
Release Date: 08/24/09
Price: $299.99

PS3, SLIM High-Definition Blu-ray player for the best movie experience. Free PLAYSTATION Network membership. 120GB HDD for downloading games, music, videos, and photos. Includes DUAL SHOCK 3 controller. HDMI output for 1080p resolution.

See also: http://www.colonyofgamers.com/cogforums/showthread.php?t=11265

tacitus

08-18-2009, 08:10 AM

PS3, SLIM High-Definition Blu-ray player for the best movie experience. Free PLAYSTATION Network membership. 120GB HDD for downloading games, music, videos, and photos. Includes DUAL SHOCK 3 controller. HDMI output for 1080p resolution.
Now if they include BC in the mix; I probably would bite.

Crowe

08-18-2009, 08:16 AM

Ohhhh nice, only 300$ and a 120 gig hard-drive. Wonder how much we will have to pay here in Australia, if its a reasonable price I might pick one up over Christmas.

Actually, with One the insane price of games I'll stick to the original plan. Buy a PS3 when the next gen is here and pick up all the games I need second hand at dirt cheap prices.

JayVe

08-18-2009, 08:32 AM

I'll stick to the original plan. Buy a PS3 when the next gen is here and pick up all the games I need second hand at dirt cheap prices.

I still contend that picking up a Sega Saturn for $10 was one of my best purchases EVAR!

Gorvi

08-18-2009, 08:41 AM

I still contend that picking up a Sega Saturn for $10 was one of my best purchases EVAR!
One of the few consoles I don't own that I really, really want to pick up. We rented that more than a few times back when I was in high school and I loved the thing.

Cyndair

08-18-2009, 09:08 AM

What's insane about all this is that the PS3 will soon only cost 50 bucks more than a freaking Wii. With it being the best blu-ray player on the market, wireless internet, the psn being free, the controller being wireless and re-chargable, the fact that it's an HD console, and the 120gb hard drive... it's really an incredible value if you think about it. No, I'm going to go out on a limb and say that it's the best damn console value period. There can no longer be any debate unless Microsoft seriously starts slashing prices. I think Nintendo needs to start considering that 199 price point for the Wii as well.

muddi900

08-18-2009, 09:31 AM

As a Blu-Ray player + Gaming system, this price totally kicks ass. But still not as good a value as a 360 Arcade. I say that begrudgingly, BTW.

Yeti2005

08-18-2009, 09:42 AM

No, I'm going to go out on a limb and say that it's the best damn console value period.

A thing's value is very subjective but I'm glad you're pleased with the PS3 slim. Are you going to buy one or do you already have a Phat PS3?

Wraith

08-18-2009, 09:46 AM

Definitely agree that the PS3 is a great system, hardware-wise. But after three years, the PS3 is finally down to the launch price of the PS2, Xbox. And the Wii is still $50 more than the GC's launch price. And I guess the 360 is just shy of the Xbox launch price, if you add a hard drive onto the Arcade (though few people will be doing that now, after the Elite price drop). I know it's not really a 1-to-1 comparison, as far as what you get for your money, but a console is a more expensive purchase than it was at this point in the previous generation.

Cyndair

08-18-2009, 09:48 AM

A thing's value is very subjective but I'm glad you're pleased with the PS3 slim. Are you going to buy one or do you already have a Phat PS3?

Yeah, it is very subjective in that the value lies in what you want out of your gaming system. I don't want to get into the tired old "if you add up the cost of all the perhiperals" argument but from a strict hardware standpoint, it's hard to argue that you aren't getting more for your 300 dollars with the PS3 than the 360 Elite or the Wii, especially when you consider the cost of a stand alone blu-ray drive.

For the record, I purchased a 60gb phat PS3 when the price first dropped to 500. I thought it was a good value then for myself personally but I wouldn't have recommended it to my more casual game playing friends. Not by a long shot. A 300 dollar price though, I wouldn't hesitate.

Kagger

08-18-2009, 09:55 AM

Gorvi

08-18-2009, 09:56 AM

Can the PS3 do Blu-Ray Live?
Yep.

Tooshort

Kagger

08-18-2009, 09:59 AM

Yep.

Tooshort

Excellent. I was waiting for the price drop to happen. I was contemplating getting a DVD upscaler when I bought my new TV, but for $230 more I can get Blu-Ray and a PS3. My time for gaming is much smaller than it was in high school, and I'm not big in to online gaming. There are a handful of PS3 games I've wanted for a while, so this is great.

MagGnome

08-18-2009, 06:10 PM

One of the few consoles I don't own that I really, really want to pick up. We rented that more than a few times back when I was in high school and I loved the thing.

I used to do the same in middle school. My buddy and I would stay over at his house and rent a Saturn and some games. I loved that system!

This PS3 Slim sounds like an awesome deal! Those who said it would be $400 are apparently going to taste crow.

JayVe

08-18-2009, 06:35 PM

This PS3 Slim sounds like an awesome deal! Those who said it would be $400 are apparently going to taste crow.

It was tough deciding if I wanted to boil or fry my hat. Ended up tossing it on the BBQ. Happily too, cause I get sick of watching Sony shoot themselves in the foot.

RandoM51

08-18-2009, 06:42 PM

Time to change the title of the thread. :)

Yeti2005

08-18-2009, 06:55 PM

Well that didn't take long. Amazon already has the new box for the cheaper 360 Elites and Gamestop is supposed to start selling them tomorrow for $299. I'd love this price war if I didn't already own both consoles!

OldJadedGamer

08-18-2009, 07:28 PM

This PS3 Slim sounds like an awesome deal! Those who said it would be $400 are apparently going to taste crow.

I said the rumor going around at the time was that the slim would be $399 and that the fat was going to be $299 I wouldn't be surprised if it was. I am very glad (by proof of my pre-order already) that that rumor was incorrect.

RandoM51

08-18-2009, 07:40 PM

I am very glad (by proof of my pre-order already) that that rumor was incorrect.

Are you replacing your fat ps3 or just adding a second one to the household?

OldJadedGamer

08-18-2009, 07:55 PM

Are you replacing your fat ps3 or just adding a second one to the household?

I bought my original 40 gig for $220 used on some special deal and I'm selling that unit to a friend for $200 so I'm paying $120 for a slim. I just generally don't like the way the fat PS3 looks. I think it's a very ugly and bloated machine and call me silly but I really like the way the slim looks. It's very "gamey" so I decided to make the plunge.

I'll get the newest and greatest plus get a bigger HDD while I'm at it.

Banacek

08-18-2009, 09:01 PM

Do we know the slim release date yet? I don't see it on Amazon yet...

Wraith

08-18-2009, 09:31 PM

The Kmart listing earlier today said 8/24/09, but now it says 9/1/09. The Sony announcement today said it'll be out in all markets by September 1, with individual dates varying.

Banacek

08-18-2009, 09:34 PM

Nice, thanks!

Wraith

08-18-2009, 09:37 PM

Actually Engadget (http://www.engadget.com/2009/08/18/sony-debuts-slimmer-ps3/) says: September 1 in North America and Europe, September 3 for Japan.

Banacek

08-18-2009, 09:44 PM

Hmm, EBGames has the 60 GB Refurbished for $329.99. Holy crap I don't know what to do...

MagGnome

08-19-2009, 07:03 AM

Hmm, EBGames has the 60 GB Refurbished for $329.99. Holy crap I don't know what to do...

Why would you buy a refurbished machine with a smaller HD for $30 MORE than the new Slim that's about to come out?

Gorvi

08-19-2009, 07:05 AM

Why would you buy a refurbished machine with a smaller HD for $30 MORE than the new Slim that's about to come out?
Hardware PS2 BC. :)

Banacek

08-19-2009, 08:57 AM

Hardware PS2 BC. :)

Exactly :) I have about 60+ PS2 games that I would love to be able to play on the PS3.

Gorvi

08-19-2009, 09:18 AM

Exactly :) I have about 60+ PS2 games that I would love to be able to play on the PS3.
The upscaling is very much worth it, too, some PS2 games end up looking pretty damn good, especially cell shaded/stylized games.

Yeti2005

08-19-2009, 09:19 AM

The upscaling is very much worth it, too, some PS2 games end up looking pretty damn good, especially cell shaded/stylized games.

I've been playing God of War II and RE4 on the PS3 and they look pretty damn good. BC is definitely the way to go.

Gorvi

08-19-2009, 09:21 AM

I've been playing God of War II and RE4 on the PS3 and they look pretty damn good. BC is definitely the way to go.
Definitely. It's a damn shame that they've made the asinine decision not to add that back in there. :mad:

MagGnome

08-19-2009, 08:47 PM

Hardware PS2 BC. :)

Ah, now it makes sense!

I never had a PS2, so I wish they had BC in these new units. There are some classic PS2 games I never got the chance to play.

Yeti2005

08-20-2009, 07:20 AM

OldJadedGamer

08-20-2009, 01:47 PM

I think we should start some September NPD predictions. I'm saying at least double last month's sales so 300K (up from 120K I think).

The Sim Exchange feels that the slim model will outsell both the 360 and the Wii in September NPD.

http://www.thesimexchange.com/futures.php?month=September&year=2009

NFSMike

08-20-2009, 02:44 PM

I think we should start some September NPD predictions. I'm saying at least double last month's sales so 300K (up from 120K I think).

Edit: Sony was planning this price cut for a long time but CEO Bobby Kotick from Activision must feel like a straight up pimp. He's the one that made that asinine comment about potentially pulling support if the PS3 didn't get a price cut. I bet that bastard is bragging to all his CEO buddies right now.

Funny you mention Bobby Kotick - there was a writeup on him in the most recent The Economist magazine. Link below if you're at all interested. If you don't know how he got his start, it's mentioned in the article and rather surprising =P

LINK: http://www.economist.com/people/displaystory.cfm?story_id=14209881